treba_dzemper

That is a romantic interpretation of actual history by some Bosniak historians, based on falsehoods spread by Franjo Rački. The current historic consensus is that Bogomils were not really a part of Bosnian society apart from small groups of Bulgarian Paulicians that sought refuge in Bosnia. But it is likely that many Church of Bosnia adherents, i.e. Krstjans, did seek refuge in conversion to Islam, but not from Church persecution. Once you guys became rulers here, you accepted the Orthodox as they were part of your Empire and you already owned Constantinople. You tolerated the Catholics, despite being at war with Vatican, Hungary and Poland (whose king Mehmed II just slayed in Varna). But Church of Bosnia would have been deemed a completely heretic sect, not enjoying even the "second rate citizen" status that adherents of The Book could expect in Ottoman Empire.

Bogomilisam did not really exist in Bosnia. Those were false accusations by the Nemanjići dynasty (who wanted Vatican to somehow approve their rule over Bosnia or force Hungarians to give them ban-hood in Bosnia). They were likely based in the fact that Bosnian nobility and priests provided refuge for persecuted Bulgarian Paulicians (who were often confused with Bogomils as they stemmed from similar dualist teachings some of which went way back to Zoroastrianism). The Church of Bosnia itself was actually Christian. Its adherents called themselves Krstjani, which literally means Christians. However, it was pre-schismatic folk Christianity based of direct Moravian liturgy/rite developed by st. Cyril in Moravia, and it lacked later Latin rite or Bulgarian/Greek rite innovations that schism brought (or that brought the schism). So, it's a bit of both. Once the two big churches were set in their ways post-schism, and their way being the only right way (or the highway), it became both a matter of tax collection and politics as well as minute differences in rite being "just cause" for heresy accusation.

In all of the Slavdom, Christianity was spread after Cyril and Methodius translated the Bible to the vernacular of Macedonian Slavic population (a.k.a Old Church Slavonic) in modern day Hungary, which back then was Slovakian kingdom i.e. Great Moravia. Then their disciples went on pilgrimages to spread it. Those that went first spread this Glagolitic Bible and pre-schismatic folk-language Christianity, those that were invited by Bulgarian king and formed schools in Bulgaria, invented Cyrillic and then spread Cyrillic Christianity from the east. After the schism, these western, Glagolitic dioceses started falling under Rome and went latinized, and the Cyrillic dioceses under Constantinople and became Slavic Orthodoxy. Because Bosnia was cut off from rest of Croatian lands by Hungary when they became rulers of Croatia, its church structures were also cut off from these events entirely. And thus, Bosnian dioceses maintained their Glagolitic, pre-schismatic, Slavic folk-Christianity -- that became Church of Bosnia and later developed its own liturgical, and even some onthological differences from both big churches.

This is actually pretty much the situation in Bosnia as well, the endemic local Christian denomination, Church of Bosnia, that defied both Rome and Constantinople, has (exactly because of that) been under constant barrage of heresy accusations, but Catholicisation of the populace simply didn't go as well as Rome and Bosnian Kings have hoped. Plus, as these kings expanded eastwards on lands of the shattered Serbian empire, they started ruling over increasing Orthodox population. Finaly, due to liturgic and custom similarities, many CoB adherents (Krstjani) have likely switched to Orthodoxy which wasn't being persecuted as they were. This mean that when Ottomans conquered Bosnia, they found a mixture of three denominations in complete disarray, one of those completely shattered to pieces with not much of a church organisation to speak of in the first place (CoB). But I think that in both Bosnia and Albania another strong cause for successful Islamisation of the populace was simply the large number of Catholics, who were considered direct enemies and threat to the Ottoman Empire, and as such were put under much bigger pressure to convert than the Orthodox who were "owned" by the Empire since Constantinople fell.

Freddie Mercury wrote "Moustapha Ibrahim" about him. Oh sorry, thought for a sec this was balkans\_irl, what with all the gay shit

Russia shit isn't just contemporary tho. Most of these countries had parts that had to endure Russian empire which was far worse for its subjects than Ottoman, and Stalins tanks rolling in in the 20th century. 

Well this type of folks aren't sick of it, they keep perpetuating it.  I expect to find a gun in a house with Bible/Quran and other religious ornaments way more than I expect to find it in a house where people signal their secular or progressive attitude.  As much as religious teachings propagate non-violsnce, owning weapons absolutely comes with the territory of being conservative, as does being openly and aggressively religious.  It has nothing to do with cowboys ie it's not just an American thing. 

I don't understand why there are so many tankies in Portugal. You guys realize you are a living Portugalcykablyat meme?

The only Pan-Slavism Russians are interested in is rest of Slavs under their yoke as "lesser Russians".

Most Balkaners actually don't have much exposure to Russian people so most are oblivious what entitled assholes most of them are (they're the only nation on the planet that can rival Americans in it). Thus, unlike those red countries up there who lived under direct oppression of the USSR, the southern Slavs and Balkaners in general have this romantic, idealized view of Russians. Then, vast majority of people in Balkan are gullible, ignorant, uneducated dumbasses, but with full Dunning-Kruger of "it's all western propaganda" on top. Plus racist, so many people here are conservative racists. Think: average taxi driver. These people have been brainwashed by their own governments into complete idiocy, so no wonder Russian propaganda works wonders on them. That leaves the moderate, educated folk, And those folk know well that you can live under a shitty government that was even elected on some sort of elections, and yet still be batshit insane and not really a reflection of the people it rules. So they feel Russian people are misrepresented by Putin government.

Is it? It's from the Bible. Name a more iconic duo than the Bible and gun nutters 

This. I know of two tropes/memes about Balkan men, and neither paints us in a particularly bright light. 1. That Balkan dads eat raw veggies and chew with open mouths 2. The above - that typically Balkan couples look like Shrek and Jessica Rabbit are dating 

Republika Srpska is a "country" as much as Cornwell is so I don't see your point 

Yeah I don't see why Macedonia is a pseudo country 

Hrvati se iz BiH iseljavaju iz raznih razloga, ali se većinom svodi na kombinaciju slijedeća dva: - EU putovnica omogućava lakši pristup EU tržištu rada, odlaze ekonomski ganjajući bolje životne prilike  - Prilično velik medijski i politički pritisak postoji već nekoliko godina koji demonizira Hrvate kao glavni problem u državi zbog toga što su ih Bošnjaci, koji su u priličnoj kontroli medijskog prostora, prepoznali kao primarni politički konkurent u FBIH, a istovremeno i jedini narod sa direktnim pristupom EU i njenim institucijama iznutra te je slabljenje pozicije hrvatskih stranaka izvana i iznutra strateški cilj većine Bošnjačkih političkih organizacija 

This certainly didn't seem to be the case in Bosnia, as everything written from that period suggests that even the urban merchant class of millet Turks (which is essentially modern day Bosniaks as very few ethnic Turks lived here) used the local Slavic vernacular in day to day use, spiking it with Turkish loan words only where it lacked a local one and even those words were twisted into pretty slavicized local Turkish dialect (thus "kitab" became "ćitaba" which is funny because it accidentally landed on similar etymology to its semitic origin, "kebap" became "ćevap", and "bayramiliz mubarek olsun" became "bajram mubareć ola" etc). This suggests that Turkish and German was really only used to communicate upwards to more central government levels and as an internal lingo of the administration, whereas the local Shtokavian vernacular as recorded by fra Matija Divković was the lingua franca of the region as much as its Neoshtokavian descendant is nowadays. 

Zelensky of his time, but ended badly. Pretty sure Zelensky expected the same fate. 

Been in Bulgaria. It will never happen. Food is proper Balkan food, really good. Women may not be as heartbreakingly beautiful as in some other Slavic and Balkan places -- but are easily in top five of them. You do know HOW it came to be that British were the sailors that colonized the world?

Radić was a republican as I said, and didn't see the reality of the historical context -- in which Croatia and SHS State would lose their independence if not backed by Kingdom of Serbia which was backed by Britain and France. I'm not saying he was always right, or a particularily shrewd politician (if he was the latter he wouldn't piss off the man who shot him), but he was not a dyed in wool nationalist as some extremely nationalis Serbs (like this "Aleksandar, Vienna" here) try to paint him.

The shot men were not radicals, Pernar was not a radical politician, and neither was Radić. HSS was centre-left party with very mild ethnic tinge and a desire for higher autonomy of Croats in Yugoslavia (or at the distant edge of that politics, desire for an intependent Croatia or old SHS state devoid of Serbian kingdom, but they never truly pushed for that). Radić was ideologically a republican, but realistically he respected the crown and had grievances predominately with the Radical party, ORJUNAs and similar nutters. He would not be an opposition shit stirrer if democrats rule worked in reality as what they promised on paper. They managed to rise to the forefront of Croatian politics in KYu as both an opposition to the Serbian nutters, and the "Party of Rights" (Pavelić's party) nutters at the same tame, essentially articulating the voice of majority of Croats in KYu. Račić OTOH was a radical, both personally and literally. But what made Serb radicals blood boil in that isntance was not nationalism -- but Radić calling them out on their corruption and looting. And it's quite obvious how this is such a traumatic event. If Račić shot one of the "pravaš" right wing nutters it wouldn't have been met with nearly as problematic. But the fact he shot these men, that the king used it to finalize complete authocracy in what before was at least ostensibly a parliamentary monarchy, and that he ultimately ended up in house arrest despite the ferocity of his crime (it was only the Partisans that delivered ultimate "judgement" on him in 1945 after they freed Belgrade), that Communist party was banned for much less, yet Radicals were allowed to run amok despite this heinous crime, all of that fueled even more grievance towards serbian authorities in the Kingdom.

Yeah. Baba Rogan(as we call it) here is a nasty old hag.  In EE it's a fucking stuff of nightmares

Yeah it's a bit reckless but pretty normal stuff here.

Yeah very common but in all honesty it would freak me out when my dad did it to my kids a bit. I mean, I've been there, I know it's shits and giggles and everyone does it all the time, but it's a bit different when you're not the one holding your kids in a "dangerous" kinda way.

No this is like chasing kids around telling them you'll eat their nose or shit like that, just to get giggles out of them. It wasn't an actual threat. We do that with kids all the time here.

Rakija, rakija, svemu je kriva rakija. Zbog tebe, rakijo, ženit ću se ja 

It absolutely means "ma nee, ma kakvi" here and in bunch of places in ex yu

Depends.  Tcok/tsk alone or with a short "ne" LR shake is a short "jok"  The eyeroll, swinging head back and tcok is more of a "Ma nee, ma kakvi" 

Almost everywhere but usually just the tcok gesture since we can't be arsed to do the whole theatre most of the time. 

I have an even better idea. How about making a mix of EU and non EU countries. Like, maybe, dunno, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo and Macedonia could form a union of some sort. What could possibly go wrong?

r/whoosh

Even then, compared to Russian or Ottoman empire, Hungarians were still tolerant. They were assholes in the years around Ottoman conquests mostly because they expected help from Vatican -- which was pretty much fuck all -- but what Vatican expected in return is from Hungarians to act like Catho-Taliban inquisitors for them, and Hungarians obliged. Later suppression of Slavs in Austria-Hungary in 19th century was mostly about their rising nationalism against the Germans that they wanted to numerically beef up at the expense of Slavic subjects of the empire.

Arguing facts from lived experience of your nation to russophile Serbs, especially Bosnian ones, like explaining maths to a cockroach.

Bosnia is Mittelösteuropa confirmed 💪🇧🇦💪🇧🇦💪🇧🇦💪

You are, obviosly, completely wrong. But so was I. Tesla did acknowledge Maček's words: [https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:Telegram\_Tesla\_Macek\_0108.JPG](https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:Telegram_Tesla_Macek_0108.JPG)

Tesla actually was pretty certain his family was bosnian Serbs before they crossed over to Lika. In either case he spent brutto 36 hours of his entire life in Serbia. He might have been a Serb, but he was absolutely not a Serbian Serb.

It's a literal letter he sent back which can still be attested lol

You got your answers from people whose nations had actual experience with both empires so I agree that us two having any more say on the matter is pointless. 

I am a Croat, I'm just not a Russian cocksucker. 

Butthurt whining about "we're not Balkan" in every post. Off course you're Balkan bruv, you were made by a čefur handyman while your dad was at work. 

Wallachia and Principality of Moldova were vassal countries, not territories of the Ottoman empire.  The distinction is significant, especially with regard to this topic.  The whole Poland A vs Poland B situation is extremely similar to the Austrian Yugoslavia vs Ottoman Yugoslavia with regard to all aspects of development, including literacy.  Russian empire enforced ubiquitous serfdom, religious persecution was orders of magnitude worse than Ottoman empire - there was no such thing as a millet system, so russification and suppression of native culture, language and identity was also much worse in Russian empire, and devshirme has nothing on Russian brutal conscription system. 

Because we're absolutely retarded and prefer owing money to the utility companies which we believe is OK since we don't leave it in front of our houses but litter the nature instead. Personally I'd have those people jailed when caught. 

They were never under Ottoman. Ans we were never under Russians - which was at least as bad as the Ottomans - if not worse. 

Ottomans were the worst, by a long shot. But I think it wouldn't be a different story if we were ever ruled by the Russians as they had similar civilisationally regressive effect on every nation they ruled over.  So thank god for that. Imagine being ruled by Turks then by Russians.  Poor Armenia. 

Tako mlada a već Beograđanka

Impossible because it was all patty of Empire of Bossnia until the Ilyrian savages destroyed our ancient empire and buried the great pyramids of Visoko, source of Bossnian supernatural power. 

"Priština" actually has Latin root IIRC, same as English word "pristine". It certainly doesn't mean anything in any Slavic that I know apart from "prišt" which means "pimple/mole" and I doubt that is the etymology. 

🇮🇹 🇹🇷 🇹🇷

Oud 

It's Byzantine or even older than that, Pythagorean.  But the fact that some scales were called Lydian and Phrygian even back in ancient Hellenic times (they were not the same scale as modern church modes of the same names which were derived from byzantine Octoechos) points that at least some of that culture harkens back to ancient Anatolia and old Anatolian peoples maybe as back as the Hitites that dwelled there.  Who knows, we may be listening to echoes of the beats that were hip for partying in the streets of Illias (Troy) BITD

It's Oud and it's from Sumer, predates the concept of Arabia by millenia or so