Constantine XI Palaiologos, the last Roman Emperor, fell on this day 573 years ago. Rejecting all offers of surrender or escape, despite Constantinople's certain doom, he chose a noble death leading a final charge in defense of the City. What do you think of the Marble Emperor?
Posted by freddo_expresso@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 148 comments
abki12c@reddit
Despite the tradition he's not the Marble King. The marble kings is John III Doukas Vatatzes. Ιt's a shame his statue is put in a non obvious place at the Mitropoleos square in Athens.
HumanMan00@reddit
I have admired his last stand for years. Then I learned his mother was Serbian - now I feel even more connected.
It's weird that we dont learn about him at school.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol.
wait until u find out that most emperors weren't, actually, Greek.
& some like a certain "Justinian" couldn't even speak the language.
majority of us will always be grateful for the Greek Enlightenment,
it's only few who have refused to recognize the reality.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Lmao. 25% of modern Greek dna is from Anatolia, because in 1923 after the population exchange 1 in 4 Greeks was a refugee from Anatolia. These people were as Greek as we are. If you think you are a pure descendant of Leonidas, and are trying to hold Byzantines to this standard, keep larping I guess.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
1929 Greek census.
Asians (excluding East Thrace) r 8%
"1 in 4"
lol.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Yes, I shouldn't say East Thrace but more broadly Eastern Roman territories that weren't Greek by your definition (ancient Thracians were also barbarians, lmao).
13% excluding East Thrace, 20% with East Thrace. Add to that the ones who came from Constantinople after the pogroms and the Pontics who had fled to Russia and you get about 25 to 30% of us being non-Greek, based on your definition, again.
Top_Resist_4455@reddit
What are you talking about? The Empire essentially became Greek in all but name since the reign of Emperor Hērákleios. The Greek-speaking Orthodox Romans were also aware of their Greek nature after the 4th Crusade. In the modern Greek historiographic canon and education, Byzantium was a medieval Helleno-Christian state. It was defined by the tripartite framework of Greek ethnicity, Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman politics.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol, cope.
literally made an account just to respond w/ the usual shit.
the majority of emperors were NOT Greek, that's a fact.
the "great Justinian" couldn't even speak Greek, (which is the very least that is expected).
HumanMan00@reddit
The only redeeming value i can find for you here is that u r just here to troll.
If not - get off facebook and start reading proper histpry books. Usually ppl who have thepries like these in Serbia are boomers who get sucked into the "history" pages on facebook where "some guy" who can barely read talks about history in his own redaction.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
eh?
I'm not trolling.
there's a significant number of Greeks that view Roman empire as occupation/not Greek.
in fact, I'm sure most view the Roman conquest of Greece unfavourably.
bruh, lol.
u don't know shit, lol.
there's 2 people in my DM's (from this sub) who I have recommended history books to.
I have read many books on ancient & modern period.
I'm probably "more knowledgeable" than 90% of Greeks on that front.
HumanMan00@reddit
This is even funnier then.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
sure.
how's Kosovo doing?
HumanMan00@reddit
There it is 😁 but that works on nationalists not patriots 😁
Top_Resist_4455@reddit
You are so absurd. What about Hērákleios? He changed all administration from Latin to Greek. Every Imperial document and sources after him were in Greek. Western Europeans called the Byzantines as Greeks. You need to study Greek to have PHd degree in Byzantine Studies. These are all common sense. Do you even pay attention in your own history class lol
HumanMan00@reddit
Paleologs were definitely Greek.
Justinian is a very specific case - Balkan probably illyrian commoner who got to be emperor thanks partialy to his uncle.
Whats Greek Enlightenment?
Top_Resist_4455@reddit
Western European Enlightenment values were imported to Greece in the early 19th Century. They overemphasised Classical Greece and paganism, dissociating Greece with Byzantium and blaming every national trauma on Orthodox Christianity. Luckily, this type of insane thinking was already corrected way back in the late 19th Century. Only Greek leftist-liberals or neo-pagans actually believe this.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
I'm a nationalist, lol.
& this isn't ideological.
an easy way to spot someone who cares for Roman empire (tho obviously there's exceptions) is
background. (Asia).
opinion on Turkey. (if they say "we're close" bs).
Top_Resist_4455@reddit
You just exposed yourself as an ethno-national fundamentalist, which is even more cringe than leftist-liberals. This thinking is rooted in the Enlightenment's pursuit of ethnic and cultural purity in the 18th-19th centuries, deeming Orthodoxy and the Greeks outside the core Hellenic region as culturally “impure”. If you seriously believed that a medieval Greek-speaking government and people were still not “Greek”, then good for you.
HumanMan00@reddit
It gets even worse..
HumanMan00@reddit
I thought thats what it was. Nothing against classical Greece and neo-pagans but why would you cut off a big chunk of your history?
Are these the same Greeks that go around telling ppl Greece is closer to Italy and Spain then the rest of the Balkans?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
that's up to the Greek state.
this is factually correct.
& majority of Greeks believe it, yes.
HumanMan00@reddit
"Thats up to the greek state"
Spoken like a true nationalist. No the fuck it isnt - culture and history belong to the people.
We seperated church from state and academia from state bcs of exactly what you propose. This is how you get fascist state - everything serves the state and state serves itself.
"This is factually correct"
Ive been to Greece and Italy both several times. Croatia is closer to Italy then Greece.
According to you i should be in wonder about how different Greece is to the rest of the Balkans but no - quite familiar, the food, the music, the manerisms. And ive been to the south too. Im not sure whos feeding you this stuff but you should stop partaking.
Go to mount Athos and tell the monks what you told us - see what they say.
What a bunch of autochauvinistic propaganda.
Top_Resist_4455@reddit
You are exactly right and you can find these people all over Quora. They basically think that the Greeks ceased to exist from 146 BC all the way till 1829 or being "enslaved for 2000 years". It is simply absurd but it is “Enlightenment”, so what do you expect” lol
MasterNinjaFury@reddit
Bro what are you on about lol.
LegioXI89@reddit
We don't learn that because the concept of nation didn't exist, did you know that our emperor Dusan had more bulgarian blood than serbian, if we are lookikg like that, bulgarian and serbian dinasty often conduct marriages between them to secure kingdom and Dušan was like 3/4 bulgarian, his mother was bulgarian as well as his grandparents something like that, I'm not 100% sure
Wars were waged between dynasties and their offsprings not between nations
HumanMan00@reddit
Ahh but we should learn that to - it would fuck up nationalists to learn the bloodlines they base rheir national purity were mixed.
LegioXI89@reddit
I agree but it would cause more problems between countries and their historical claims, for ex England medieval rulers had more french blood and were actually speaking french on the court
HumanMan00@reddit
Well, we r all going towards Europe being once country. I honestly cant wait. A chamce to explore European culture and history with politcal backing of multicultural europe and no political consequences? Boy oh boy!
deviendrais@reddit
I was just going to say that. Pretty much everyonw knows that Constantine the Great was born in modern-day Niš, but very few Serbs know that a Serbian woman (Jelena Dragaš who's a descendant of the Nemanjić dynasty no less) gave birth to the last two Roman Emperors
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Correct. And he was so proud of this descent that he added Dragases (Dragaš) to his surname. This was significant enough to be noticed by his contemporaries.
In fairness, Mehmet the Conqueror is also part Balkan Christian and maybe Serbian, via his mom. But we dont know her exact origin (could also be Albanian or Hellenic or Bulgarian).
HumanMan00@reddit
It's weird but the way our education system was mismanaged since 1800s no wonder it got overlooked.
tompa_zg@reddit
I have always supported everyone fighting the Ottomans.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Including Mongols?
Darth-Vectivus@reddit
Mongols didn’t fight the Ottomans (at least not after the state was officially founded.) They fought the Seljuks.
tompa_zg@reddit
Equivalent-Rip-1029@reddit
In this case, you also support ottomans.
tompa_zg@reddit
Yeah, let them kill each other.
Equivalent-Rip-1029@reddit
There is an old saying among the Turks: If we cannot find an enemy to fight, we will split our own country in two and fight one another.
MammothTrifle3616@reddit
Juriš! Dolje janjičari!
weldo420@reddit
How much fuel does the time machine consume per kilometer?
Sea_Gap_6569@reddit
Noble? yes
wise? no
he could retreat to some mountains and reorganize his people to fight back. Producing leaders is not easy for societies, especially in disarray
No2Hypocrites@reddit
He is surprisingly highly respected in Turkish history books. I think Fatih even got the janissary who killed him executed. Mad that he killed the Roman emperor.
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
The Emperor's body was never found, as he removed his imperial insignia prior to his last charge.
The Ottomans searched for his body, found one wearing purple boots (imperial symbol) and decapitated it. They paraded the head in the City, but the civilians did not recognize this man.
This led to the folk legend of the Marble Emperor in Greek culture. He was saved by an angel and turned to marble, hidden in a cave underneath the city. Once Christians armies approach the city to liberate it, the Emperor will rise to lead the charge, entering in triumph through the Golden Gates.
Suitable-Decision-26@reddit
We got close. in 1912-13. He wasn't there though....
Alegrys@reddit
Which Christian armies tho, the ones that damaged Constantinople beyond repair and probably caused its downfall in the first place? Or Orthodox Greek Armies? In both cases you are welcome to try komsu :) We would be happy to give you a sequel.
On the original topic, he is by far the noblest and most respectable Emperor. I admire him, if only he lived a little bit earlier he might have changed the course of History. I am at vacation now but when I get back home I can recommend some books on him. He was a Chad!
Few-Interview-1996@reddit
A noble and fitting death.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
There were many. But one of few Palailogoi worth his purple, yes.
Additional-Penalty97@reddit
Palailogi were not good at all and once they occasionally were they tended to launch some of the worst civil wars not a decade after
Atlandios000@reddit
Dimitrios and Thomas managed to have a civil war in Morea after the fall of Constantinople.
Also as a Greek , everything with a little bit of decent should pee on Andronikos Palaiologos grave.
Additional-Penalty97@reddit
John Kantakouzenos would like to have a word with you
Checky_3rd@reddit
He is unironically better than Andronikos I or IV. It's not HIS fault the regency vilified and condemned him, Anna of Savoy had too much influence over the politics of the state, and Ioannis simply wanted to continue his friend's (Andronikos III) policies, yes, he actively rebelled, and did some questionable things, but he had no other choice, if he simply accepted the allegations and humiliation, he would've died alone in a cell, blinded and stripped of all wealth (including his family as well).
Additional-Penalty97@reddit
Not that i regret it happened but hiring first Serbs than Turks to fight your wars, paying them by allowing them to raid and enslave your own people (in the case of us) or giving them half the Empire (in the case of Serbs) is not an acceptable thing let alone after all this shitshow he would manage to rule for just one (1) year where the status quo before the Civil War literally continues with only change being the Empire is now in ruins and then quickly being deposed into exile.
Like Andronikos Komnenos is the lesser of two evils against this guy at least under his watch shitshow was within the state while Kantakouzenos sold his realm to others
Checky_3rd@reddit
To us and earlier Romans, yes, this was a stupid strategy, but at the time, it wasn't uncommon at all, the Two Andronikos' War, used the same tactic, and ever since 1071, and the rebellions that followed, the Romans gradually started relying on mercenaries or other groups to fill in their ranks to fight their battle.
I'm assuming you are referring to Andronikos I Misophais, who yes, most stuff he done was internal, but the Bulgarian Independece also happened during his reign, the Sultanate of Rum also took advantage of this and raided deep into western anatolia, and occupying towns and villages while the Bulgarian revolt was happening. And unlike Ioannis VI, who at least was a capable general, and would've reconquered the territories lost if given the chance, Andronikos was even bad at THAT, the debate over who are the worst Roman Emperors should have Ioannis VI excluded, yes, his actions literally shot the empire's feet, but he didn't unplug the cord, it was Andronikos IV.
Atlandios000@reddit
Him as well …
Basically all of them.
Palaiologi were a really bad excuse of a dynasty.
Maybe if the Laskarides managed to keep the throne they would've be a biggest trouble for your ancestors.
Checky_3rd@reddit
True, their powerbase prior and post sack of New Rome was in Anatolia. Even if the Anatolian lands were destined to fall, it would've happened more gradually and slower, possibly butterflying away the Ottoman Entry in Europe and subsequently the Fall of Constantinople in the 15th century.
Checky_3rd@reddit
Honestly, all of the Andronikos' Emperors were dogshit except the 3rd one, he was one of the last great ones, too bad he died young.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Agreed. Ottomans were capable but had a huge advantage in constant civil wars c 1300 - c 1360. Self inflicted injuries.
Additional-Penalty97@reddit
Kind of but i think in a grander scale most of the time these are results of weaknesses within the system. Like Byzantine system being prone to civil wars but being strong when legitimate dynasty (like the Macedonian) is in charge, like your guys dominating with Stefan Dusan but failing when weak leadership like Uros comes, like Ottomans being strong in not letting any Feudalism and counter influence form against the state, being able to form massive armies but this collapsing when Industrial Revolution kicks in and there is no bourgeoisie to speak of.
Obviously these are huge generalisations but the point is that these are more systemic failures rather than say a natural catastrophe like volcanic eruptions.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Sure, all agreed. Huge simplification, and compression of timelines, but with all of them basically once you start receiving land/riches/comp from the state and not on merit, the system went to the bin, disappearance of themes/emergernce of large landholders or the inheritance of timars with the Ottomans...
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Ot wasn't just the Turks, the west was nibbling away the empire the same as the Turks. Byzantio was finished.
O_945@reddit
Very honorable death, however if he didn't do this, he could maybe have fought again another day and retaken the city like Nicea did after the latins took Constantinople.
We can't say for sure but maybe other powers in Europe would have been shoked by the fall of Constantinople and have sent troups to help him retake it, but since he died there was no one left to rallied to.
Honest_Hair2856@reddit
And some food for a thought. Byzantines were not calling them selves Greeks or Byzantines but romans. How and why from romans we became Greeks
EpicStan123@reddit
Tbf that's a bit inaccurate. The last Roman Emperor purely based on the fact that the Empire of Trebizond was a roman splinter state was David Komnenos whose empire fell in 1461.
Checky_3rd@reddit
That Empire is a successor state, not the continuation of the roman state.
It's like if Bulgaria split into Tarnovo and Plovdiv, and Sofia region was ruled by say, Austrian noble led state, calling itself Bulgaria, and then Plovdiv reconquers the area and Sofia, and then 200 years later falls to say Albania, and Tarnovo, who remained independent from the Plovdiv restored Bulgarian state, survives for a few years longer.
Historians would associate Plovdiv as the continuation of the 'Pre-Sack of Sofia' Bulgarian state, and it's rulers would be accounted into the continued Bulgarian state until it's capture by the Albanians. And Tarnovo, would have it's own set of rulers and history, even tho they might have claimed the Bulgarian legagy.
That's why the first Emperor of Trebizond is numbered as Alexios I, instead of Alexios VI, or his successor, Andronikos I Gidos, not being numbered as Andronikos II Gidos, and so on and so forth,
while on the Empire of Nicaea, Historians number Ioannis Doukas Vatatzis as Ioannis III, acknowledging that since Nicaea restored the Empire in 1261 AD, it was the de facto Empire in exile technically speaking.
So in conclusion, yes, David Megas Komnenos was the last Roman to rule the Empire of Trebizond, but he was the Emperor and Autocrat of all the East, of the Iberians and of Perateia. The last Emperor of Trebizond who claimed to be the Emperor of the Romans was Ioannis II Megas Komnenos, (1280-1297) recognizing Mikhail VIII Palaiologos, (1261-1282) as the sole Emperor and Autocrat of all Romans.
Super_Sherbet_268@reddit
Prophet Muhammad foretold the fall of Constantinople in a famous hadith (recorded saying) centuries before it happened. He stated: "You shall certainly conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will he be, and what a wonderful army will that army be". This prophecy was fulfilled in May 1453 by the 21-year-old Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed II, who became known as "Al-Fatih" (The Conqueror).
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
Was there a prophecy for the last Ottoman Sultan fleeing Constantinople on a British ship to save his life?
Kothee@reddit
why so mad
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Super_Sherbet_268@reddit
Rise of one empire is the fall of another
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
No empire rose after Mehmed VI
Super_Sherbet_268@reddit
Only time will tell.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Last stand is great and all in films or when you are gonna die from r certain but he could have negotiated and not have Constantinopole sacked and the people put to the sword.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
It makes sense that a literal Roman emperor would be too proud to be just a governor under a different empire.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Fuck pride, its the lifes of thousands he was governing
Lothronion@reddit
He makes it clear in his last speech, it was not his sole decision, but of the Roman Senate and the Roman People. In fact, if he disagreed he could perhaps even end up being dismissed, which would probably result in the Byzantines asking one of his Morean Despot brothers to take up the mantle, most likely Thomas Palaeologos (since Demetrios was increasingly becoming Pro-Ottoman).
Checky_3rd@reddit
I want to make one thing clear. I do somewhat agree with you, and there is no world where the Basileus & Autokratoras Konstantinos XI Dragasis Palaiologos would ever give up the city of Constantine, because it was not his to give or receive. New Rome, though diminished from it's prime self, was still the sole capital of the Eternal Universal Empire, the Second Rome, The See of Konstantinoupolis, one of the Five Patriarchates established by Iustinianus I Magnus, and he had no right to give it up to the infidel.
One more thing, the Roman Senate was no more since it's dissolution in 1204 AD unfortunately, but the Roman People.
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
Yeah I'm with you.
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
This was not just a siege, this would determine the legacy of the empire. The Roman Empire deserved nothing less.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Im not a history buff but yeah i still stand by my ground. Maybe he did try negotiated the surrender and new nothing would change, nothing would turn favorable.
GreatEmperorAca@reddit
MY GOAT, RIP, FOREVER REMEMBERED
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
I don't.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
however,
according to public,
he is, actually, the 32nd greatest figure in Greek history.
(& first in terms of Roman empire, there's barely any Roman figures in the top 50).
Karamazovakis@reddit
Karamanlis above Plato, Aristotle, Homer, Pythagoras lmao
But then you see who made the list and it all makes sense
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
okay?
u realize it's national poll?
public "made" this list.
(& Karamanlis was always considered "εθνάρχης" especially back then, tho I definitely don't agree w/ placing him, or any other politician except a few obvious ones, so high).
Karamazovakis@reddit
I doubt the credibility of the poll, that's it.
Putting someone barely known outside of Greece above people who have been world famous for hundreds, if not thousands, of years is laughable.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
cope.
Lothronion@reddit
Don't you have eyes? The list clearly has him in the 28th position. The one in the 32rd position is Greece’s Anti-Axis Fascist Dictator, Ioannes Metaxas.
And one must take into account how this whole evaluation was heavily biased for the Greeks of the second half of the 20th century AD and beyond. I mean, it has Constantinos Karamanlis as the 4th, Mikis Theodorakis as the 11th, Constantin Carathéodory as the 12th, Melina Merkouri as the 13th, Andreas Papandreou as the 14th, Odysseas Elytis as the 16th, Manos Hatzidakis as the 18th, Maria Kallas as the 23rd, and Aristotelis Onasis as the 25th. Mind you, this was in 2009, so the average Greek would have heard about these figures all their lives, as contemporary ones. As such, this is not really the answers to “who is the Greatest Greek”, as the SKY program wanted them to respond, but instead, “who is the most popular Greek”, so of course they display such presentist bias. If you remove everyone from that time, then you have him in the 15th position
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
well,
yeah.
it's not an objective list, obviously.
& yeah the period should be taken into account.
for instance, Leonidas would be in the top 10 now, I'm sure.
however, that Emperor above is definitely (still) the most popular one in Greece.
& it's definitely true that most Greeks would go for a dozen & more figures from ancient period & modern before a Roman one.
Lothronion@reddit
My issue with that list is not so much with the issue of presentism, as that bias is rather difficult to get rid of, especially among Greeks, rather that it includes Greeks from all kinds of backgrounds, hence you often get very odd rankings, especially when combined with this presentism. This is how you get extreme cases like Maria Kallas (23rd), an opera singer, Giorgos Seferis (29rd), a poet, Nikos Galis (33rd), a basketball player, Giannis Ritsos (40th), a poet, and Kornilios Kastoriadis (58th), a philosopher professor, Lakis Lazopoulos (83rd), a comedian, Thanassis Vegos (83rd), a comedian, Aliki Vougiouklaki (88th), an actress, all rank higher than figures like Solon of Athens (67th), Euripides (80th), Philip II of Macedonia (96th) and Thales of Miletus (99th).
Overall, this list is having various issues, one of which is how good old Fascist Dictator Georgios Papadopoulos ranks as the 59th of the 100 Great Greeks, despite it being clear from the surveys that the support for the Greek Junta is nowhere close to that as far as it comes to the Greek populace as a whole, hence it shows that the survey was not the best when it comes to representation (though perhaps there was some organized action by Junta-supporters to achieve that number).
Regarding the average Greek’s attitude to Byzantium (which you want to undermine), there is also the odd case of having Helene Glykatzi-Ahrweiler as the 86th Greatest Greek. While that is also certainly influenced by presentism, in this case this presentism is reflecting on her work in promoting Byzantium to the average Greek, for which she was well known in Greece during that time (especially in the 1980s-2000s).
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
I mean,
it's perception, yeah.
so, maybe a popularity contest in a sense.
I would 100% vote for "Δέσποινα Αχλαδιώτου" (among others) but many Greeks may not even be aware of her.
& others want to undermine our ancient, & modern, history.
(our ancient is FAR more glorious, & our modern is FAR more exciting, for me, compared to Roman).
some of the "biggest haters" of the modern Greek state may be found on r/Byzantium
some "great" Byzantium historians have said CRAZY things,
& proposed policies that, if implemented, would "ruin" Greece.
(I'm not even going to address the fact that Ottomans applied the "Roman" identity, to imply "ownership" over Greece/Greeks, "there's no such thing as Greece, there's only RUM" before Ottomans FAFO'd).
Lothronion@reddit
That is my point, that there is no overall criterion. Like do we want someone who contributed to humanity as a whole, but is a Greek? In that case we could bring various cases, such as Emmanuel Timones, Chiot Ottoman Greek, and Iakovos Pylarinos, Heptanesian Greek, both from the 17th century AD, without whom mankind would not have had vaccines for an even longer time. But even then one could heavily debate on who is more or less important.
Take your case with Despoina Achladiotou, she is regarded as a hero, but then there are also other cases of humble heroicness, such as Panagiota Stathopoulou (17-year-old girl that in July 1943 AD attacked a German tank during a massive popular protest (\~ 400.000 people) against a governmental announcement that the German forces in the area of Eastern Central Macedonia, east of the Axios River, would give the caretaking role to the Bulgarian forces. So popularity may not be the best measure to discern things.
Well sure, but that is not really a good reason to do the same.
I am not aware of anti-Helladite attitudes in r/Byzantium (not anti-Grecian, which would be the equivalent of the Greek term “Helladikos”).
TheAimIs@reddit
«To surrender the city to you is beyond my authority or anyone else’s who lives in it, for all of us, after taking the mutual decision, shall die out of free will without sparing our lives.»
Last speech of Constantinos Palaiologos.
Erenik19@reddit
Wish our leaders had a fraction of his balls & commitment.
Otherwise-Strain8148@reddit
Skanderberg delayed the inevitable for few decades. Dont go hard on yourselves.
Otherwise-Strain8148@reddit
It was a delayed outcome due to timurids.
He was a brave lad but unlucky.
Pytzamarama@reddit
Άγγελοι τον παρέλαβαν, τον έλουσαν και τις πληγές του έπλυναν με μόσχο και με μύρο, του έστρωσαν να κοιμηθεί σε κλίνη από βύσο κι Αρχάγγελοι με πύρινες ρομφαίες τον φυλάνε μέχρι να ρθει η ώρα του για να τόνε ξυπνήσουν...
greieru@reddit
“Roman”
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
?
Plastic-Yesterday719@reddit
Funny it is, all of the greek heroes are loser
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
History lesson from temu
Shqiptar89@reddit
Good riddance
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
The same Sultan that destroyed Albania by the way.
hunbaar@reddit
Glad to see that he is super important for Greek history. It was a Tuesday for Turks.
HumanMan00@reddit
Right xD thats why Ottomans built cannons for years and sieged the city for days and gathered all the vassals they had.
Cuz they were like whatever..
Why do you embaress yourself?
Equivalent-Rip-1029@reddit
Mehmed was the seventh Sultan, and his siege was the fourth siege undertaken by the Ottomans. In other words, yes we can say that the sieges of comstantinople had by this time begun to become a tradition for the Ottomans.
hunbaar@reddit
Hurting butthurts here, so welcome!
HumanMan00@reddit
Nothing hurts, you just embaress yourself. Mehmed II would slap you for downplaying his success.
hunbaar@reddit
"Nothing hurts" sure buddy.
HumanMan00@reddit
Again - it happened a 1000 years ago. Nothing hurts.
You are an obvious ragebaiter but you dont even realize ypu are embarassin yourself and downplaying turkish history. Any turkish historian would give you an earfull for such disrespect.
TheSocDem@reddit
What's sadder is Constantinople actually fell on a Tuesday. He ruined perfectly good bait material by throwing a childish tantrum.
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
Tuesdays in Turkey 🥀
JohnnyTango13@reddit
Haha ulan how old are you?
hunbaar@reddit
Dede.
JohnnyTango13@reddit
Bunaklaşmışsın dedem
hunbaar@reddit
Eyw
arapsavar2@reddit
I disagree. Taking Istanbul and living up to the Prophet's word was our goal for quite some time. Thats why Fatih Sultan Mehmet invented Şahi Cannons and went to war with many anatolian and balkan "countries" so they would attack him when he is sieging Istanbul. It was definietly a huge siege that was meticulously planned over the years.
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
The Fall of Constantinople is a Tuesday for the Turks, ok.
radyo-dy@reddit
don't feed the troll.
hunbaar@reddit
Sucking up to westoids achivement unlocked.
TheSocDem@reddit
It was a Tuesday
hunbaar@reddit
Nope death of a rando larper was.
Sekalino@reddit
Bro talking like he conquered that shit himself on his way to pick up some groceries.
Starfalloss@reddit
Just like genocide.
hunbaar@reddit
Here have your originality award:
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Is this why the conquest is celebrated annually, and 1453 is plastered all over Istanbul?
AgentDoty@reddit
He had two nephews who were heirs to the crown.
Andreas Palaiologos (1453–1502): Eldest son. He proclaimed himself “Emperor of Constantinople” in 1483 and sold his titular rights to Charles VIII of France and later to Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain. He died impoverished in Rome.
Manuel Palaiologos: Unable to live comfortably in exile, he eventually traveled to Constantinople in 1476 and submitted himself to Sultan Mehmed II. Mehmed treated him generously, giving him housing and an income.
He lived as an Ottoman subject. He had sons including one named Andreas who served at the Ottoman court.
Equivalent-Rip-1029@reddit
Furthermore, it is said that Constantine had two other young nephews who were conscripted into the Ottoman devshirme system, taking the names Mesih and Murat, and went on to become viziers in the Ottoman Empire.
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
These people mean nothing.
tormentius@reddit
probably invented shit to make them look good in history
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
You know something we don't?
tormentius@reddit
he could at least proactively do something before ending up where it did, he was the emperor after all
BasedEmu@reddit
Of an empire reduced to a city.
Dry_Imagination2535@reddit
I wish you all a happy conquest day
UnusualPangolin5115@reddit
Same honor as Nikola Šubić Zrinski who rejected all promises from Sultan Suleiman to rule his own kingdom, wouldn't even dignify it with a response.
They defended a fort in Siget until their supplies ran out, and then he ordered the soldiers to march out and take out as many of them as they could.
Some 2300 of them took down 30.000 Ottoman soldiers, ruining any ambition of taking Vienna
deviendrais@reddit
I have no reason to doubt the first two facts, but these numbers seem fabricated. The Wikipedia article even says 2k Croatian soldiers defeating an Ottoman army of 100k. C'mon man
Equivalent-Rip-1029@reddit
I have always found Western nationalism, built upon myths against the Ottomans, to be amusing.
Yet, despite possessing a rich history, i have never been able to understand why they feel the need for such things.
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
They did not defeat them, but they killed as many of them as they could.
Enough-Meaning1514@reddit
I think you missed a "0" there mate. 2300 people took down 300.000 Janeseries.
UnusualPangolin5115@reddit
His last speech
arapsavar2@reddit
Certainly an honorable death
treba_dzemper@reddit
Zelensky of his time, but ended badly. Pretty sure Zelensky expected the same fate.
Weirdgus@reddit
I feel like he was incompetent as a politician and he relied too much on his defensive walls for defense, instead of actually securing alliances to preserve his power, his city and what was left of his empire, as a strong competent leader would have.
BicycleAdditional360@reddit
I mean, he died in a noble way. Yet the quote about 'God forbid I should live as an Emperor without an Empire' is straight up hilarious, if you think about it.
Byzantium was an Empire in name only for more than a hundred year already
freddo_expresso@reddit (OP)
*Roman Empire. Constantinople has always been an imperial capital, it doesn't fit any other title.
ElLoboTurco@reddit
"i dont need a ride, i need ammo!"
but the bad ending lol
TigerOfEU@reddit
Worst day of my life
Street_Appointment81@reddit
As the youngsters say, he "went out like a G".
cornobbling@reddit
named my budgie after him