How can I learn more about what it was like for Hungarians conscripted by the Nazis to fight the Soviets during WWII?
Posted by Middle-Telephone4098@reddit | askhungary | View on Reddit | 15 comments
This is the story that we were told: husband’s grandfather was conscripted by the Nazis when he was 15, and brought to fight the soviets. Returned home after the war. He then participated in the 56 Revolution, fled, ended up in US. He and his wife are deceased many years now.
Details are few, and the story definitely shifted somewhat over time, at least in the telling. Originally he said he was conscripted and forced to work as a cook for the Nazis, but eventually acknowledged having participated in combat.
When he came back, he married, and was able to give some valuable gifts/jewelry to his wife. I don’t know if he was paid by the Nazis (seems crazy to me, but I know nothing!) or maybe took from bodies? This includes the wedding ring for his wife, which is now my wedding ring.
I’ve had an incredibly difficult time finding historical information/books/resources on Hungarian conscription by the Nazis. We’ve visited his hometown (Pannonholma),
I’d really love any historical resources, to know more about his life and experiences. I’ll admit I’m also… interested to know if he wasn’t conscripted, but joined willingly or semi-willingly.
So, I’m interested in any info, and if the story as it has been shared with us is plausible. Thank you!
TheGodBurger@reddit
depends, what is his family name? people of german origins could join the waffen ss, and they were favoured by the germans, because they conscripted the "volksdeutsche" people in 44-45 winter
but if not, he might have been part of the "levente" organisation, which was a paramilitary stuff, they were the first wave of the child soldiers at the end of 44
DatteEU@reddit
This. My family had a hungarian names.
Cser, Varga, Tóth and others... They were conscripted in the "Levente" organisation. (there was some of them that were military aged, they were conscripted into the hungarian army, and were sent to the soviet front. Some of them died in fights, one of them went missing when he was not able to move anymore due to exhaustion, as they retreated...)
The two man i know, the Varga brothers, they were Levente-s. They were deployed in france. One of them told me that, he survived only because he couldn't make it in time to railroad tunnel that was repurposed as a bomb shelter, cuz it was targeted by allied bombers, and the pressure killed everyone inside. Later each of them were captured by allied soldiers. They said maybe Brittish soldiers, but how they portreayed them, i think they were likely americans instead. Then they were forced to help rebuild france, and in 1947 they were sent home. Aaand they had very bad opinion about the French people, as they were held in a very bad conditions as a child, and they were literal slaves as they said.
(Sorry for my english, i know i'm very bad in it 😃 )
Middle-Telephone4098@reddit (OP)
I don’t want to say family name because it’s actually distinct enough that when we visit Hungary, everyone seems surprised by it. It’s a Hungarian noun, but apparently not a common name at all. But, when we visited his home town, his grandfather and great-grandfather had the same name, so just another little mystery
Rutin75@reddit
Krisztián Ungváry: The Siege of Budapest: 100 Days in World War II
Absolutely recommended read on the topic.
He refers on those hungarian citizens with german heritage ("svábok") betrayed by the hungarian state and let conscriped by german authorities, mainly into the "Maria Theresia" and "Hunyadi" SS cavalry divisions.
Middle-Telephone4098@reddit (OP)
Thank you!! Ordered the book
No-Sky-837@reddit
You can try this website, which uses official war records - you can filter based on the place of birth. However, it only shows if he was either wounded, captured or recorded as MIA (not considering KIA). If there are any results, then it will show 1) his rank 2) his unit 3) his basic personal data (like mother’s name) 4) the place and time of what happened with him. https://iivh-katonahoseink.militaria.hu/kereses/lista#
Middle-Telephone4098@reddit (OP)
Thank you! No names matching his, but a name matching his wife’s maiden name, so something very interesting to learn more about!
skp_005@reddit
Depends on the date. The "nazis" (the Arrow Cross movement in Hungary) only got into power late in the war in around Oct 1944 (the movement had been banned before), after a coup backed by the Germans, after the Hungarian government's unsuccessful attempt at quitting the war (i.e. to cease war activities).
Was he in fact conscripted by these people, or was he conflating the Horthy government with the nazis?
If it was toward the end of the war, then it's all the same really, everyone who looked fighting age could be taken and made to fight. After the war, people tended to say they were forced to do so even if they welcomed the occupying German troops because saying otherwise meand repercussions by the communists. But at the age of 15, having lived through years of war already, I doubt he was a volunteer.
He could have also found those, there was quite a lot of wealth left behind, or taken it over from fallen soldiers, I don't think you'll know for sure. Nothing wrong with treating it as family heirloom with a colourful history.
It was nearly impossible to get first-hand stories out of the survivors I met in my family, so there are no second- or third-hand memories of what happened, only the little that they did tell.
Ok_Hurry_1788@reddit
Check the dates, no one voluntarily goes to war at the age of 15.
Middle-Telephone4098@reddit (OP)
Completely fair! I struggled choosing my words because I agree that child soldiers are not responsible, but I wasn’t sure how it would land and didn’t want to appear to defend Nazis if the responses here had been that the story doesn’t make sense
HungarianNoble@reddit
He is not really right though, hungary was not allowed to field a large army after ww1, so the levente movement was created, to prepare teens for potential service, the movement was disbanded after ww2, however while yes, a lot of youngsters were forced into conscription by the arrow cross party, quite a few of them volunteered, because at that time hungary was one of the most anti communist countries in europe, they were then taken to germany for training, and some of them made their way to the hunyadi ss division (the only hungarian ss division) while others to other german formations, perhaps the guy you are looking for fought in the hunyadi ss?
Formal-Apartment855@reddit
This, there was a minimum and and a maximum age. 15 sounds like below the minimum.
Monsieur_le_Katze@reddit
A few info for you:
- As a 12+ male he was obliged to join the Levente movement, but below the age of 16 they didn't receive training with small arms. Only marching, fitness and ideological training. If his parents were loyal nazis or nyilas (local nazis for Hungary), the kid would've been in a protected status und would never be deported to the frontline.
- If he has seen the frontline, it was very late 1944, maybe 1945 and very likely had to do slave work, like deactivating mines and laying radio cables under enemy fire. Working in the kitchen was a privilege, so he definitely wouldn't leave the kitchen unless he was forced to do so.
- If he fought soviets, there was nothing to loot from them. When the Wehrmacht retreated, they looted everything from the civilians, so the valuables don't fall in soviet hands. Even if the kids managed to steal anything, it was small things and immediately taken away by the Wehrmacht, because according to them hungarians were seen as lesser human beings, so they didn't get anything. They were not seen as fellow soldiers, but child soldiers from a slave race.
- In case he fled from the frontline, it is very unlikely that his biggest worry was to carry a bag of jewelry with him
- In case he was captured by either the soviets or the allies, you can be sure he was stripped from all valuables, before he was transported back to Hungary
So don't worry, your wedding ring is not a result of some hardcore nazi's war crimes.
Middle-Telephone4098@reddit (OP)
I so appreciate the info, thank you very much! Do you know any good historical books/resources people have written or shared about this experience?
Lordy8719@reddit
You won’t be able to get any meaningful info. All I could get out of my grandpa, a half-Jewish doctor, was that “the Nazis were bad people… but the Soviets were animals”.
People did whatever they could in hopes of surviving another day.