"This is not something that computer would ever do" or A Tale of two Printers

Posted by siro300104@reddit | talesfromtechsupport | View on Reddit | 77 comments

So this morning, I learned something new. New, and horrible. Let me explain:

We have an ERP application that runs from a shared network drive, since most of its backend is stuck in the 90s. All it stores on user's PCs is a temp directory for its built-in print spooler. Because I guess the Windows print spooler wasn't buggy enough for their liking.

I visited our warehouse one town over from the office this morning. Understandably, they feel a little bit like the red-headed step child that gets forgotten, so leadership decided that an IT guy had to drop by once a week. All this did was make them stop creating tickets altogether, and instead wait up to 5 days for us to fix the problem in person. Anyway, this week it was my turn.

I get there, and one guy mentions to me that he's having a strange issue: $WarehouseGuy: "Hey, so I know this sounds insane, but when I set this small label printer that's at my desk as default printer on my PC, it applies to my colleagues PC, too. And the other way around." $Me: "wat" $WG: "This started like two months ago. I think with an update of the ERP application. We've agreed that the other guy will set his label printer as default, and I need to switch it every time." $Me: "WAT" $WG: "Yeah, let me show you."

So he opens our ERP application, opens the label module and goes to print, which triggers a built-in Windows print dialog. He chooses the USB label printer connected to his PC and clicks "OK". Now he's back in the ERP application, which now presents him with a checkbox for "Permanently store these settings". He checks it and prints.

At this point, I'm thinking it's an issue with our ERP app. I check that his temp directory is not set to a network drive by mistake, that he's logged in using his own user account and such. Now I'm thinking, it might be that the application update introduced a bug where it mistakenly stores its settings globally in the shared drive instead of in the local temp folder, as intended.

We wander over to his colleague, who is using a completely different, third-party label printing application. He opens the print dialog, which by default now selects the USB label printer instead of whatever he was using before.

Let me repeat. Him checking "Permanently store these settings" inside of the ERP application made a computer six feet away change the printer settings of a completely different application.

I almost dropped my coffee. It's not like I thought he was lying to me, but this is just not possible. This is not something that computer would ever do. Usually, when presented with a problem, I have a rough guess and can immediately start troubleshooting. But I'm dumbfounded.

Could the ERP application somehow synchronize these settings? "No," I'm thinking, "it's not agile enough for that. He didn't even have that app focused." I start googling for "Windows changing default printer makes other computer change default printer" but feel absolutely ridiculous in doing so.

Meanwhile, $WG goes: "Yeah, so when $BossOfIT was there the other week, he mentioned something about an issue with Microsoft, but he didn't have time to take a look." This is pretty vague, but it gave me an suspicion. A horrible, horrible suspicion.

I open the Windows printer settings on $WG's colleague's pc. I scroll past all the different network printers to the global settings. And I see it. Another one of those Microsoft's additions that is absolutely useless, fixes nothing, causes confusion, doesn't ever really work, and - is enabled by default.

"Let Windows manage my default printer - ON"

"No," I'm thinking... "it can't... they wouldn't. They wouldn't, right?"

OH BOY THEY WOULD!! I checked $WG's pc, and he didn't have that setting enabled. Checking the box in the application set his Windows default printer as the USB label printer. Which caused his collegues PC to wirelessly transfer this setting to itself. Once disabled, the madness stopped. The world made sense again. I think the other IT guys back in the office might've heard me scream. It's not even 8:30 yet. I need another coffee.

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DiodeInc@reddit

And now you have demonspawn. I've always heard that printers on Linux are even worse but I had a much better experience. This is not an ad for Linux, nor am I a shill. So yeah.

NO MORE DEMONSPAWN

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BlindGuardian117@reddit

I love Linux, I'm using it now. BUT I have a very old Mac sitting on top of the printer doing nothing but acting as a printer server for Windows, Linux, and Mac computers and an Android phone. This stupid, old-ass Mac Mini doesn't care. It will print anything from any brand of device. Windows wouldn't even print when directly linked to the computer. Linux would print but not from any Windows computer or 2 of the 4 Macs that need print service.

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DiodeInc@reddit

That is so ridiculous

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Kurgan_IT@reddit

I'm a Linux admin. I've been working on Linux (and dos, and os/2, and sco unix, and Novell Netware, and of course Windows because you cannot dodge windows) since 1990 or so.

Printers have always been the root of all evil, in different ways over the years. Older printers (dot matrix, with folding paper) just worked (regarding configuration and communication to the computer) BUT they had their quirks, like the fact that after printing 100 pages, the pages became misaligned by just a little, and if you tried to set page length to just a little less (or more) then they became misaligned the other way.

The golden era has been with PCL or PS laser printers (one page at a time, it cannot become misaligned over time) and Linux / Unix systems (serial port, if it works it works, and never stops). Then came Windows and plug and play...

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Subjekt_91@reddit

Yeah as the name says you plug it in and play around till its working 😁

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oxmix74@reddit

I managed a printer tech support group for a printer manufacturer. The correct time to install a printer via plug and play is...never.

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Linuxmartin@reddit

Instead you get to spawn daemons

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AmbitionStunning2392@reddit

It's just any modern OS (Win, Linux, Mac) and any I/O. They've all become trash at it.

No matter HOW MUCH YOU TRY TO DEFEND a single OS, there is none that just simply have a simple setup/pnp for devices. It's ALWAYS fucked.

Mac: Self explanatory proprietarianism.

Win: MSFT Bloatware

Linux: No infrastructure. Everything is a manual mess.

Windows bad, printers bad. Mix them together...

commentsrnice2@reddit

I heard windows and HP are going to collab by putting a Microsoft AI in their printers

SabaraOne@reddit

Okay let's leave aside the obligatory "Dey tuuk arr jjaaaaaawwwbs!!!" level hatred of AI and ask what the hell possible use a standard printer could have for a neural network? I mean I can see a 3D printer hooking its camera up to an AI so it can auto-abort when the print craps out but a 2D printer? The only possible idea I can come up with is printhead alignment and no thank you I'd rather use a nice, conventional rules-based AI that doesn't suddenly decide to hallucinate where the calibration markings are.

jobblejosh@reddit

But don't you understand!?

Consumers want AI in everything!

oloryn@reddit

More like Executives want AI in everything.

the_Athereon@reddit

"Windows and Printers do not go together."

Me. A computer tech with 15 years experience

Alexander-Wright@reddit

MacOs and Linux are not much better, to be fair.

Tell me about tablets and printers, macos and printers, etc. (sysadmin with 30 years of experience)

Tablets are the absolute worst. "Help me, I want to print from this OS that has no support for printing.

Coulda left it at "Printers do not go".

It's true for any OS, and any printer, and more now since there are subscription/online only printers.

curiouslycaty@reddit

Not a computer tech, but enough experiences with printers that watching that one scene from Office Space every few months is rewarding.

syntaxerror53@reddit

Windows Printers Very Bad Edition. /s

frac6969@reddit

Yes, and this behavior is probably new since we also ran into it not long ago, and so I disabled the default printer by policy. Another possibly new behavior is changing number of printed copies saves the setting and confuses the heck out of our usrrs.

AusgefalleneHosen@reddit

I'm dealing with this right now, I have several computers stuck defaulting to 10 copies. I have not figured out how to fix this.

nymalous@reddit

We had this problem at work not too long ago. An application that had an option to print a legal document required for consent to perform the service that the application provided was set to print 25 of those documents (we like to keep some on hand so we don't have to print each time) and that setting was saved by a coworker (possibly by default).

All of a sudden, everything printed by that computer was spitting out 25 copies. After a few weeks of this, it occurred to me that we have some apps that have documents they print, so I went through them and looked to see what the print settings were for each one. Lo and behold, I found it, in a certification app. I changed it back to 1, and checked the save box. Problem fixed.

I do hope you figure your issue out, even if my anecdote doesn't help at all.

Windows had created a special user based settings cache for the default printer and it's various settings. We'd remote, set it to default, and then Windows would just revert back to this user settings regardless. I finally v tracked it down and just deleted it, problem solved 🤣

Distribution-Radiant@reddit

Coffee? You need a shot of whiskey after that.

And Windows CoPilot will want to print to FAX.

TheThiefMaster@reddit

Are they sharing an account? AFAIK that setting only affects one user. And one device...

siro300104@reddit (OP)

That's the thing, no they're not! It wasn't the RDP terminal environment, it was local, bog-standard Windows 11. Different AD/Microsoft accounts and everything. I frankly wouldn't believe a computer would ever do this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But it was reproducible. Toggle the setting back on, the issue reappeared.

Ah, Win11.

The OS designed so poorly that its sole purpose appears to be driving admins mad until they throw in the towel and get an LLM to hallucinate a fix that never works.

TinyNiceWolf@reddit

OP: "I check that his temp directory is not set to a network drive by mistake, that he's logged in using his own user account and such."

AdreKiseque@reddit

Did he check the other user's, though?

He did say that - but this setting simply doesn't work like he's claiming either, do he's lying or mistaken about something

spamjavelin@reddit

I mean, devil's advocate, but nothing in the story stated what account the second machine was logged into.

rezwrrd@reddit

Maybe both PCs are logged into the same Microsoft account? I've had some issues with syncing settings doing that if I forget to turn it off.

OcotilloWells@reddit

Industrial site, this is highly likely.

LupercaniusAB@reddit

Perhaps you could read the post?

ron3090@reddit

Yeah, this seems like a buried lede here. I could see Windows just being weird like this, but it would make much more sense if both computers were logged in to the same account and were sharing the printer.

RayEd29@reddit

My mantra with regard to Microsoft - "STOP helping me!"

I hate it when a piece of software thinks it knows more than I do about what I want. Unfortunately, that IS true with other users - they SAY they want 'A' when what they actually want is 'B' and the software serves up B. In my case, when I say I want 'A', I really mean it so when the software that 'knows better' gives me B, it pisses me off no end.

Absolute hatred for that kinda stuff.

Windows settings are the worst for it.

I wish to change *this specific setting*.

I go to the settings page for where *this specific setting* should be.

It is not there. In its place is either a massively simplified menu for things that are almost but not quite entirely unlike the setting I'm after, or some stupid automated tooling that offers to fix the problem for me.

No! I do not have a problem! I wish to access this setting, in order to do something specific! If you try to troubleshoot you will find no problem because everything is working as it should! I am merely anticipating a change elsewhere!

Which is why for anything more complex than changing screen layouts I almost immediately open up control panel to fiddle with the innards.

I remember the first time I tried to burn a backup of a Blu-Ray using imgburn. I loaded up the BDMV folder and it immediately suggested I set the filesystem to UDF instead of an ISO hybrid. My thought? "Wait, it asked before assuming it knew better than me? I love this program!"

Wodan11@reddit

since most of its backend is stuck in the 90s

Can't get past that one.

If you use it on a VPN it constantly crashes and piles up error messages because it can't handle a single dropped packet.

Jonathan_the_Nerd@reddit

Have you tried tunneling TCP over TCP? That will double your reliability!

(/s in case it wasn't clear.)

Stryker_One@reddit

Tunnels all the way down.

Cheap_Flamingo476@reddit

Doesn’t that make it slow, like a turtle?

Yes, but then you get the reliability of a turtle.

LOL

My wife is an ERP backend expert. She has saved a number of manufacturers because she understood the hidden elements. Burroughs/Inisys, System 34, AS/400, and cloud. I don’t include Oracle because trying to be Jack of all trades makes it a pain (you need a module? We got one. Maybe it’ll work).

I have managed for years a ms-dos based custom-built ERP.

DaHick@reddit

I still teach a dos based plc programming tool.

Yeah, that recent!? You lucky dog!

meitemark@reddit

most of its backend is stuck in the 90s.
its built-in print spooler. Windows print spooler

Windows print spooler was maybe one of the most buggy things in the '90 and 2000s. Making a proper one was the lesser of two evils.

There is a lot of competition for most buggy thing in the '90s and 2000s.

Inside the windows ecosystem I'm pretty sure print spooler won all the ten top prices, and that just not because it refused to print the diplomas for the other ones.

KnaprigaKraakor@reddit

Windows are great with printers.

Step 1: DIsconnect power and network from printer.
Step 2: Open Windows.
Step 3: Toss printer out of Windows.
Step 4: Listen for the crash of the printer hitting the concrete outside your office.
Step 5: Profit. (And close Windows.)

aj4000@reddit

Oh I just love that feature, especially when Windows somehow makes a "phantom" duplicate and decides that it should be the default printer.

LOVE that...

ThunderDwn@reddit

Let's all issue a robust bronx cheer for Microsoft and its "features" that get added without notice, consultation or reason.

OldGeekWeirdo@reddit

If I ever meet a MS developer in a dark alley, my only hope for freedom is to be judged by my peers.

harrywwc@reddit

so, let off scott-free :)

Menard42@reddit

With a monetary reward.

Starfireaw11@reddit

Printers are the devil, ERPs suck. I worked with one, once, that would only work with a specific list of supported printers, which was only about 8 devices long, some of which had been out of production for years. It wouldn't have been too big a problem if we didn't have to roll out a couple hundred new printers...

25toten@reddit

This is straight out of my nightmares

Birdsharna@reddit

the let windows manage default printers is so useless and only causes issues. the solution to a issue with printing in one of our applications was to disable this setting. users would select the printer they wanted to print to, but bc of this setting, windows overrode the change and printed it to the printer it decided was the default and correct printer.

tbf some blame can be put on the app devs, but I don't blame them for this oversight bc why would windows introduce this and enable the setting by default???

Fluffy-duckies@reddit

It's great for many home users

I'm sorry, but how many printers do you have at home for this to be a helpful feature?? 😭

1, but it's more than when you change wifi networks it changes the printer to the printer at the other wifi location.

JaschaE@reddit

I know maybe two people who even own a printer at home. But maybe your friends&family are all hardcopy enthusiasts. So when you chill at their place, with your laptop, and decide now is a great time to do some paperwork, this "feature" is an improvement over clicking the other printer in a dropdown menu of two?

Pingstery@reddit

The only use case I can think of is hybrid work for people high enough in the food chain that data protection doesn't apply and are too important to waste valuable time clicking an extra button.

Uncanny profile of what I imagine the people making decisions at microsoft are like.

I just deleted 3 paragraph long rant about Microsoft, instead I'll just say, yup. They must get a chubby every time an IT worker gets annoyed at them.

I think that would be rapidly onset Priapism