Grandpa might not know computers, but he knows how to think!
Posted by Oday-Dolphin@reddit | talesfromtechsupport | View on Reddit | 81 comments
After so many stories of computer-illiterate users turning tech support attempts into a grueling task, I wanted to share a success story of tech support for my grandfather, who has very little knowledge of computers but still used his brain and was extremely helpful when asking for help.
I’ve been the go-to tech support for my grandparents for years, by dint of being the most available and the best at software and settings problems (I pass hardware issues to my brother). They live in a different state so tech support is always via phone call.
Grandma has always been relatively on-top of technology, she can use a tablet and a smartphone, and can reliably log into her email, Facebook, and games. Grandpa, on the other hand, only briefly got the hang of it. He could manage his original laptop just fine, but as the internet got more complicated and the ads got sneakier, he didn’t want to put in the effort to learn all the new safety rules or re-learn how to do everything now that Windows changed all the buttons. He also struggles with touchscreen phones and touchpads on his laptop, he has large hands and fingers which makes precision difficult.
So Grandma got him a Chromebook, which we all agree in hindsight was the worst possible decision. I’ve never used one, never even seen ChromeOS, and had no idea how to help when something went wrong. (He once got a malicious full-screen popup saying Windows was compromised and he needs to call Microsoft tech support and it took me 2 hours on the phone and googling to figure out how to clear the popup. There wasn’t even a virus.) When the Chromebook got old, slow, and possibly infected with something, they called to ask me to pick his next laptop, purchase it with their card, have it shipped to me so I could set it up, and then ship it to them. “Ok,” I thought, “here’s my chance to make all our lives easier.”
I picked a “Shell Inspiration” with the dreaded Windows 11. I’ve never used it, my computer is old enough that it can’t update from 10, so I was a bit intimidated. I set out to research what was different and how to “grandparent-proof” Win11. Once I had a game plan, I got to work. Step 1, find out exactly what he does on his computer. Facebook, Gmail, and YouTube, check. Step 2, install Windows without a full Microsoft account. That required getting partway through setup, downloading the updates, then disabling the Wi-Fi router and force-shutdown the computer to make a “local-only” user account. Check!
Now came the tricky part, make it work as much like Windows 7 (the last one he knew well) as possible. Rip out Cortana, disable web search in the start menu, disable a bunch of “smart” stuff in the settings, uninstall all the bloatware, set the desktop background to a nice neutral color, make programs open with Single Click, and make the system font and icon size much much bigger for ease of reading. Whew! Step 3, Check!
Step 4 was software. Malwarebytes for emergencies, and in a stroke of genius, TeamViewer for future tech support. Goodbye Edge, hello Firefox! Adblocker, tracker blocker, and bookmark his three sites. Get his login information from grandma, and set up auto login. Each site gets its own custom icon on the desktop, with the logos for Facebook, Youtube, and Gmail respectively (I’m very proud of that).
Final step: instructions! Screenshot the desktop, and put together a cheat sheet with each icon identified and explained. Describe how to run Malwarebytes if something seems off. Include username and password for the computer itself and for each site. Save the cheat sheet to the desktop, and also print a copy to close inside the lid.. Pack the whole thing up and ship it off!
A few days later, I got the call that grandma had set up the wifi and everything was working as intended. Great! Every few months during one of our calls I would ask how it was working, and the answer was always positive. But nothing lasts forever; one day I got the dreaded call: something is Wrong with the laptop and now they need my help.
The Problem: Youtube is playing somewhere and he can’t shut it off. He can open a new window of Youtube using my shortcut, and it will play a second video simultaneously, and he can close that second window, but can’t find the one that’s still playing. Ok, he’s probably got a window minimized and needs to maximize and close it. I try to talk him through finding it but it doesn’t seem to be showing on the task bar. He’s describing his screen very well, albeit with odd terminology (for example, a window is a “mask” and the desktop is the “start screen”), and he’s also sticking to the relevant information rather than just listing every single thing on the screen.
A note here: Grandpa is hard of hearing, so he often shouts when he talks, especially on phone calls, and his laptop volume is always turned to the maximum. So for the duration of this call, he is SHOUTING over the video playing. Luckily for me, I can’t actually hear the video through the phone, he hasn’t discovered speakerphone (much to Grandma’s relief).
I decide with some trepidation to try to get him to bring up task manager. He confides that he’s always afraid to touch anything on the computer because if it’s the wrong thing it’s “all messed up.” I reassure him that he’s doing great so far, and I think he can get this. It takes him a couple of tries to get Task Manager (I’m not sure he was clicking the Start button), but he manages ctrl+alt+del and clicks the correct option. He describes the “mask” and sure enough, Firefox is at the top of the list. I have him click it and tell him how to find the “end task” button, and that’s where we stall. He can’t find it. I make sure he’s looking at the lower right hand side of the Task Manager “mask,” not the screen itself, and that he’s looking below “the entire long list” rather than the last line on the list.
After 5 minutes of this, he suddenly interrupts, “Wait! I’ve got this ‘Team Viewer’ thing, can that help?”
The clouds part, an angelic chorus sounds. Yes! I have him open Team Viewer while I log in on my end. 30 seconds later I have his screen on mine (thankfully the sound didn’t come through, though he assures me he can still hear that video). I finally discover our pitfall: Windows 11 moved the End Task button to be above the list of processes, between two other buttons I didn’t know about (Run new task and Efficiency mode). I triumphantly kill Firefox, and Grandpa shouts “That did it!! What did you do?” I explain that they moved the button and I was telling him to look in the wrong place. For good measure, I have him open Youtube again to make sure the hidden window wasn’t stuck in cache, but all is well (thank goodness). He thanks me and I congratulate him on being so helpful that we got within one button press of solving the issue, and thank him for remembering Team Viewer.
And mentally pat myself on the back for having the foresight to install it in the first place.
hyclonia@reddit
Tbf, the way Firefox handled media playing is pretty bad. I miss chromes "open playing media button" immensely. If you have a bajillion tabs open and cannot remember where it is.
Literally scroll through until you maybe see the volume icon playing, or do YouTube window search and hope it pops up. They need to adopt that feature already!
dbzmah@reddit
Why not restart the PC? Also, you can press the Windows button now, and type "Task" and task manager will be to item.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
He wasn't able to find the Windows button and he doesn't know the keyboard has a "Windows Key". Restarting might have fixed the problem, but it's possible Firefox would have reloaded the existing page after a reboot, I'm pretty sure I set that option.
hyclonia@reddit
Ah, if he doesn't know what the windows key is then, alt+tab, until something pops up and alt+f4, ctrl+W might be hard too..
dbzmah@reddit
I gotcha. I thought one button press might have been easier than 3.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Me too actually, I'm not sure what he thought I was directing him to click when I told him to find the Windows Button in the center of the bottom. But as soon as I said "control alt delete," he said "oh, hold on I have to put the phone down for that." I was very impressed actually lol
civilwar142pa@reddit
or right click the windows button on the task bar, it brings up a whole list of diagnostic tools including task manager
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately, he doesn't know what a "right click" is, or a "task bar," or the Windows button, or the windows key. I'm genuinely impressed he knew what "control alt delete" was without me spelling them out as written on the keyboard. I actually pinned a shortcut to Task Manager to the Taskbar, but he doesn't know enough to find it.
Earendos@reddit
I'm the family tech and only today learned that. Then again most of my family would have no need of bringing up task manager. Or if they do they know how to use it.
hyclonia@reddit
Yay! I'm glad you got that sorted and looks like grandpa learnt something new. Just wanted to say really happy and impressed at the thought and customisation you put into preparing the tech for your elderly. The amount of ppl I know who will just throw a full fledged iPhone or Android at their parents and not explain anything about how to use is just mind boggling to me.
totallybraindead@reddit
One of the smartest things Microsoft ever did was bundle "Quick Assist" into the OS. It's basically a TeamViewer clone that was installed with the OS and kept up to date with Windows updates, so no matter what, whenever any tech troubled family member calls, as long as they were on Windows 11, you know it's installed and up to date, ready for you to help.
But then, this is modern Microsoft we're talking about, so we all know THAT couldn't last, so now a shortcut to quick assist is installed with the OS, which just takes you to the Microsoft store, because it's not actually installed with the OS anymore, which won't let you download it until you have signed into the store with a Microsoft account, even though the app is free. If their account signes out of the store ever? It stops updating, so can't run it until they've signed back in and re-updated. Congratulations Microsoft, you took your one good idea and made it harder to use than TeamViewer again! Thats the Win11 way.
JaschaE@reddit
I think, while there would be a lot of initial bloodshed, we as a species would greatly profit from the extermination of the marketing person. The homo-adverticus, if you will.
Because you can't tell me "needs log in to instal a free product" came from the mind of a so called homo-sapiens.
jdubsreddog@reddit
Wasn’t that the point of the Golgafrinchan B Ark? No more of those types…
ZolliusMeistrus@reddit
Yeah, and they turned out to become the humans that populated earth. And Douglas Adams goes on to explain that the planet of the Golgafrinchans gets blown up by an asteroid eventually.
K-o-R@reddit
But not before the population was wiped out by a disease contracted from a dirty telephone...
JaschaE@reddit
That seems to be a resource heavy way to go about it(And you totally should do studies on the effects of non-desinfected phones before making decisions). If we could get rid of Cocain for a bit, their main source of nutrition would be gone, that would also help.
ZeroPenguinParty@reddit
That's right...they also had the hairdressers and the telephone sanitisers.
TheBestMePlausible@reddit
Microsoft very very much wants you to open a Microsoft account. Otherwise how can they track you?
It’s not coming from the people designing windows 11, it’s coming from upper management, telling the people designing windows 11 how it needs to be.
JaschaE@reddit
My hatred of marketing people runs deep and is actually unrelated to microsoft, so I might be biased smelling their tracks on this.
OcotilloWells@reddit
The snipping tool as well.
racedrone@reddit
What? Since when? Every windows machine I come across has it installed? Winn 11 pro/Enterprise/ltsc/server. Did that only affect the home version?
OcotilloWells@reddit
No, pro. I dunno, but several clients didn't have it, and we had to get it installed through the store.
racedrone@reddit
Damn.
OcotilloWells@reddit
It was a pain some of the machines had a decrappify script run on them that removed the store. Restoring the store seems to be different every time I have to do it.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately that's not an option for my Grandpa, the user account is specifically a local-only account that isn't a Microsoft account.
racedrone@reddit
Just use team viewer. And if they get too annoying try out the open source program "Rust". While at work I still use tv, I have my whole family on Rust. It's great.
leitey@reddit
I used to recommend Apple products for grandparents. I say this as someone who has never, and likely will never, buy an Apple product. I'm not sure if that recommendation still holds, or if Apple has gone the same route as Microsoft with all the forced cloud services, pop ups, and AI.
That list of things you did to make the computer more grandparent-friendly? Those are all the things we all want. Windows 7 was the last decent Windows version.
dutchah@reddit
In terms of phones, I will absolutely recommend iPhones over any flavor of Android in a second.
Otherwise, you'll be removing 30 junk apps every time you go visit nana. On a good day.
lunarwolf2008@reddit
apple does have a “grandparents” mode. called assistive access or something. limits the home screen to pre setup pages of 6 giant app buttons you can swipe between. some of their stock apps also support it, such as phone, giving them only a giant font list of people to call, plus emergency services at the top, instead of the normal app interface
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
I recently switched to an iphone after using Android my whole life, it was a steep learning curve for the exact swipes to switch between apps or close them. I still haven't used a Mac, so I would be useless as tech support. My Grandpa probably wouldn't want to learn a new OS either.
ehwhythough@reddit
A Mac just works. It doesn't need a lot of hoopla for it to function. You close the lid, and forget about it. You open the lid and you can start using it. No stupid installs of updates every other day. No forced AI, no ads no nothing.
The only thing I can't do on my Mac is play my PC only games and I doubt your grandpa plays any haha. The new Neo is a good starter laptop for students, I imagine the same is true for grandparents too!
LadyA052@reddit
My Mom is 93 and is a whiz on her smartphone and her iMac. Has used Macs for probably 30 years or so. Now, my DAD was another story. "Fix it but don't change anything!" Wish I could hear that just one more time.
dinosw@reddit
For personal use, and for helping family remotely, I have switched away from Teamviewer a long time ago. AnyDesk is a great, free, lightweight alternative.
usamaahmad@reddit
You’re a great grandchild
VaneWimsey@reddit
But not a great-grandchild.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Aww, thanks! Tech support is the least I can do for them, living in another state makes it hard to keep in touch or offer help sometimes.
JaschaE@reddit
*takes notes* You call it grandparents proofing, but much of what you did sounds like "making a windows PC usable" to my mid-30s ears...
hendrix67@reddit
It's incredible how far Microsoft has fallen. I grew up using windows and am very comfortable with their setup. But my current company uses office 365 for everything and it makes my work life so much harder all the time. So many bugs, so much lack of functionality. It's so frustrating.
VaneWimsey@reddit
Microsoft always sucked.
lunarwolf2008@reddit
yeah, i would like to know how to remove the web search thing when searching in start menu
Ahkhira@reddit
I'm in my 40s and most of that us what I do with a new PC.
racedrone@reddit
Did that every time, too. Also disable all the "call home to Ms "features". If you don't know how Google "shut up windows".
But win 11 is flawed and the bugs are overwhelming. Brought my windows machine back to win 10 Enterprise and enabled 3 years of esu.
At the end of the three years I hope to abandon windows forever. We will see if I really manage to do that. Fingers crossed.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
A lot of it is what I do for my own computers, but the real Grandpa-proofing was the separate icons for each website and the giant font lol
Lost_Spell_2699@reddit
My husband had a laptop specifically for his dad. He works in IT and did his damnedest to dadproof this thing. His dad was absolutely not allowed to touch anything else. Still every few weeks he would have to take his dads laptop and remove tons of malware and viruses. He, to this day, still has no idea how his dad managed to infect his machine so thoroughly so frequently. Thankfully his dad had the presence of mind to call his son instead of the number on the pop-ups. His mom on the other hand, thats a whole nother story...
MaritMonkey@reddit
I think this is a sign I'm getting old that I'm with grandpa on this one: stop moving my gorram options menus around. I certainly felt old as heck trying to use the mouse to delete a file from my desktop when it took me a solid 5 seconds to find "delete" in win 11 :(
NearSightedGiraffe@reddit
I installed TeamViewier onto my grandmother's laptop for Christmas one year, in addition to something small. She insisted that team viewer on its own was enough of a gift and I explaiend- no, installing the free TeamViewier is a gift I am giving myself, the other item is the gift for Grandma.
It has been fanatstic- tech calls that previously may have taken an hour or so only to not be resolved are now fixed in 5mins or less. My grandma is very good at following instructions, but because she learns everything from rote it only takes a small update to throw her off. Teamviewer has saved me a lot of weekend drives down to hers to sort out issues
tseeling@reddit
Get away from Windows crap and switch to Fedora Cinnamon or Linux Mint.
This resembles Windows a lot and has none of that ad and bloat stuff.
sabeth23@reddit
tl, didn’t r
fyxxer32@reddit
Try Linux next time. None of that windows crap to undo. And it's got several versions to try AND it's all free!
HerbertRTarlekJr@reddit
Probably could have found the window using alt-tab.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
You're right, I should have thought of that! I'll have to remember next time.
throwaway42@reddit
Ctrl shift esc brings up the task manager too and is easier to hit imo.
TesseringPoet@reddit
I love this for you and your grandfather!
MintAlone@reddit
Linux has entered the conversation. In this case linux mint in the hands of a 73 year old. I've been using it for over 10 years. Never looked back.
RAITguy@reddit
I probably would've pushed him to another Chromebook. They're so locked down and dumb he couldn't get in trouble.
It has been my go-to for people that can't handle Windows (I'm almost there sometimes with Windows 11 🤣)
DisgruntleFairy@reddit
I actually got all my family members on linux mint and had good luck doing that.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Nooooooooo, that would have been awful! The first one barely worked, even for the simple stuff he uses it for. And there's NO adblocker! His biggest problem is the ads that look like news articles, or emails from his friends, or legitimate facebook posts. Ublock Origin hides ALL of those so he can't accidentally click on some spyware or cryptominer or "coupon finder" because it looked like something else.
Not to mention, I still don't know how to work on one or where the menu options are even for simple stuff...
DiodeInc@reddit
Even then, though, it's hard to help anybody if you don't have experience with ChromeOS
iccohen@reddit
As far as step two above, there's free software out there that gives the look and feel of Windows 7, or Windows 10 etc. So you could have just applied that and your grandfather would have just had the same look and feel as his old machine.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Huh, I will have to find that the next time I set up a computer! That sounds amazing!
iccohen@reddit
Lookup Open-Shell (open-shell.github.io)
That's the one I use, but there are plenty out there.
Raichu7@reddit
Your Grandpa can do all that, get that close while following your instructions, and you still claim he is unwilling to learn technology? You need to give him a break, I've known younger adults who refuse to even type in their log in details to their email once every few months when it auto logs out for security because "I don't do that normally, it's broken, I don't understand technology, you fix it".
New_Crow3284@reddit
Open task manager with ctrl shift esc instead of ctrl alt del and some clicking. If grandpa can do ctrl alt del he can also do the ctrl shift esc. Its almost the same, only rotated 90 degrees.
professionaldouche@reddit
Dave's garage taught me this and I've been on windows since the beginning lol
n2musicchick@reddit
Looks like you saw a window in your grandpa’s future!
Phage0070@reddit
They saw a mask into their future.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
This is my favorite comment of the entire thread!
picatdim@reddit
Please ask your grandpa why he calls computer windows "masks". It's such a weird word for it, I'm curious to know! 😊
MasterPhil99@reddit
I am (unfortunately, and among other things) the Jira Administrator at work. Maybe it's just a thing with German speaking people, but 99% of people at work want changes to their Jira "mask" aka the thing Jira itself calls screens, where you create or edit tickets.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Honestly I'm afraid to ask him cause I don't want him to feel embarrassed about using the "wrong words" when I can understand him just fine.
My guess is that it's derived from layer "masks" used in painting, like masking tape keeping the paint off of specific spots. Meaning he thinks of program windows as layers over his desktop ("home page"), with the edges being strictly defined by the borders.
hemingwaysbartender@reddit
He's not wrong. :)
DiodeInc@reddit
This is pretty awesome. Congratulations to your grandpa :D and also to your grandma for being able to stay on top of technology :) and also good on you for grandparent-proofing it.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
I can't support a reinstall off a USB from a different state. And if I want a custom OS install I'll use Linux, but not for someone who can't even find the Windows button...
DiodeInc@reddit
I'm just saying you can do this.
micaturtle@reddit
I know people are going to lamblast me, but I really recommend MS Edge over firefox nowadays. When Edge was "born", it was a shitpile browser, close to MSiE status. However, in 2020 it was reborn as a chromium clone with better security, and it really is so much easier to tech support for than chrome or firefox, because of the lack of easily downloaded plugins.
Oday-Dolphin@reddit (OP)
Chromium doesn't have good adblockers. Ublock Origin is the best, it even hides "sponsored posts" on facebook and the ads between emails in Gmail! Firefox was a MUST for my Grandpa's security.
zqpmx@reddit
If not because Office. I would install Linux Mint on many computers
Dave-c-g@reddit
Well done ! I'm so sick of removing Microsoft's bloatware on Pcs for people. Why they have to re-install on updates it's is just annoying...
DiodeInc@reddit
You can reinstall Windows with an autounattend.xml file! Even when Windows updates, it won't reinstall all that garbage. Schneegans(dot)de has a generator for it. Just go through and check all the options and such and then download the file, and put it in the root of the USB that you're using to install Windows! Simple stuff
Z4-Driver@reddit
Hmmm... why am I hearing some music in the background, only to stop once I read about you killing that firefox task?
/s
RevKeakealani@reddit
Brilliant. Grandparent-proofing a computer is quite a trick, but when done well it can be a real gift. I should install teamviewer on my grandma’s computer next time I’m home….