Paper in Japan | TheaterFire

[-]

OffSeer@reddit

Current day: I was on the board of a non-profit that had a federal/state contract. Feds send the state the money, the state issues the contract. We bill monthly the previous month’s services and costs. The state gave us an Excel file to fill out monthly. First, the formulas had an error if you used them. So we had to correct that before sending. Then we emailed the file to the state person who did the input into their system. Which I believe meant they printed it out and inputted the data into their system. A facade of modernity with an eyeshade and rolled up sleeves

[-]

grond_master@reddit

I remember watching a TV documentary about a computing company (IBM/Microsoft/Dell, or someone else) on Discovery in the previous millennium, where they talked about their Japan office.

As it turns out, that sales office did not have any computers at all. Thing is, computers at that time operated only in English, while the Japan office operated in Japanese, so the office itself had no use for computers. So while they sold computers, they did not use them per se.

A lot of these things are holdovers from that era.

Oh, and a relevant XKCD.

[-]

SrslyBadDad@reddit

“Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon loaded with hard drives!”

[-]

schrej@reddit

Same apparently applies to semi trucks.

[-]

DaHick@reddit

Sneakernet is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet

[-]

LupercaniusAB@reddit

I use sneakernet to get scans of my tax documents from my multi-function printer to my computer. Scan to my SD card, then carry it to my computer.

Why? Because my printer is about 25 years old at this point. I can still print to it, but it can’t talk to anything I own nowadays.

[-]

sandogsandog@reddit

Its definitly a thing, i just havent knew the namw ofr it before - in hospital department (cardiology) I work in, we quite often need to consult cardiosurgery to decide between PCI or CABG, but the closest hospitals are 150-200km from us. When we asked for permission to send coronarography files over internet (anonimised, encrypted and secured with password) it was refused, official prcedure is to transport the CD disc in an ambulance. I have to admit though that 1GB over 90-120min is not a great bandwith

[-]

af_cheddarhead@reddit

Obligatory:

RFC 1149/2549/6214 IPoAC - Internet Protocol over Avian Carrier

[-]

fatmanwithabeard@reddit

Depending on the suspension of that wagon that could be a bit lossy.

Tape is still the best option for large scale sneakernet.

Is it really sneakernet anymore once you've got enough data that you're involving loading docks and safety toe shoes?

[-]

DaHick@reddit

I would have to say it is, unless you are using a Zipline. In that case you are moving it by wires for some distance.

[-]

fatmanwithabeard@reddit

Now I need to run a system that uses a crane to move pallets of tapes so I can say I'm using a fully terminated cable network to move large scale data.

[-]

DaHick@reddit

I really like that one. Stolen for the next time this sort of thing comes up.

Does it count if you attach it to your clothes with a wire?

[-]

DaHick@reddit

I really like that one. Stolen for the next time this sort of thing comes up.

Does it count if you attach it to your clothes with a wire?

[-]

Ha-Funny-Boy@reddit

I was working with a guy that was an IBM employee. He told me about a time he was sent to Japan to help a team that was having "cultural" problems and they couldn't figure it out. Finally he found out what it was. One of the original team members was left handed. Apparently in Japan (other countries too) you do not eat with your left hand, you use that one to wipe. The left handed guy was told what the problem was and sent back to the US. Also told not to worry, it was not something he did deliberately to offend them.

[-]

tailaka@reddit

Sooo.......burn the (left handed) witch?!

[-]

Ha-Funny-Boy@reddit

I think we're lucky most people in the US do not get upset about left handedness. Also, most people in the US wipe themselves using something other than a bare hand.

[-]

tailaka@reddit

My Grandfather had teachers that massaged his knuckles with a ruler for being colorblind. Thought he was being insolent coloring his trees w/ the red crayon. Probably did the same to lefties!

[-]

himitsumono@reddit

>> Probably did the same to lefties!

At one time, definitely. Not so much now, but depending on the teacher, possibly still in some instances.

[-]

MikeSchwab63@reddit

Should have sent the file on a mini-SD card via homing pigeons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers

[-]

BlitzAceSamy@reddit

Nah fam, THIS is the relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2116/

[-]

lioness99a@reddit

I ran a Scout/Guide event a while back and asked all the volunteers to send me proof they had done the safeguarding training course. I received all sorts of variants of screenshots, from the “normal” way, all the way down to a photo of their laptop taken on their phone and placed in a Word doc… Some of the convoluted ones were from people I would have expected to know better, based on their age!

[-]

HaroldTheScarecrow@reddit

I routinely receive "screenshots" like this: Hold cell phone in portrait mode. Take picture of laptop screen. Sometimes up close so I get half the screen, sometimes far enough so I can see the keyboard. Then don't share that picture, open the camera roll, take a screenshot of the "screenshot" in the gallery, then share that.

Now I can't zoom in, it's missing most of the screen, and just...what the hell

But hey, it is actually a real screenshot eventually

[-]

androshalforc1@reddit

A while back we had a 90th birthday for my grandmother we suspected it would be one of her last and made a big effort to get the entire family there for it. Someone took some great photos.

When she did pass i was tasked with getting a specific photo blown up for the service. Of course i was originally sent a screenshot of the thumbnail of the picture. Spent a couple of hours chasing down who took the original photo with everyone else confused as to why the thumbnail wasnt good enough.

[-]

TallGreenhouseGuy@reddit

Should have just called CSI Miami and asked them to zoom in and enhance.

[-]

androshalforc1@reddit

Zoom i can do, enhance not so much

[-]

tofuroll@reddit

Such a lovely pixel. It captures her personality!

[-]

Kiyae1@reddit

I used to underwrite mortgages and the number of times we’d get a photograph of a computer screen instead of, you know, the fucking document on the screen in pdf format was insane.

I could literally see the button to download it as a pdf most of the time too. JUST CLICK THE BUTTON

[-]

fyxr@reddit

My friend, I believe you intended to link https://xkcd.com/763/

[-]

androshalforc1@reddit

Years ago i was doing a watch party with some friends they sent me the link through messenger which i only have on my phone and i wanted it on my PC which was hooked up to the tv Andy sound system.

Ok i emailed it to myself tried to open the email on pc.

Email 1: we need to verify you please enter email 2. We sent an email to email 2.

Email 2: we need to verify you please enter phone number. We sent a message to phone number

Get message from phone, verify email 2, find verification email - timed out. Get frustrated, friend asks what’s wrong, they send link over Discord which i have on both phone and PC, proceed to facepalm

Get code

[-]

solexx@reddit

I sometimes use Google Keep for such things ...

Link sharing also works great when you are logged in to Firefox on both devices.

[-]

OctoMatter@reddit

This was the one I had in mind

[-]

action_lawyer_comics@reddit

I should stop being surprised that Randall would have multiple comics about this kind of computer/user thing

[-]

bionicjoey@reddit

I once heard it said that Japan has been living perpetually in the 1980s since the 1970s.

[-]

Fauropitotto@reddit

Felt like the 90s or 00s.

Spending a week in Tokyo was like stepping back in time (Cash, paper tickets, traditional arts, smog). Spending a week in Shanghai was like stepping into the future (fully electronic experience everywhere, robots serving food, 80%+ electrification of cars).

It was weird.

[-]

djshiva@reddit

I would prefer Tokyo because I work in IT and I hate everything about tech anymore. The enshittification has broken me.

[-]

bionicjoey@reddit

Yeah that might have actually been the quote I heard. Stuck in the 90s since the 80s. I couldn't remember for sure, but that makes more sense.

[-]

Aln76467@reddit

But how else can they put floppies in the post? Or did they only have fax at that time?

[-]

orreregion@reddit

If you remember the name or if anyone recognizes this documentary, hmu. Sounds right up my alley.

[-]

Geminii27@reddit

...why could the file not be saved somewhere that computer B could read directly?

[-]

NDaveT@reddit

You're (understandably) assuming a level of computer literacy that user doesn't have.

It's obvious to you and me that once something is in digital form, it can be sent in that digital form to other computers on a network. Many users don't see it that way. I don't understand what way they do see it but it's not that.

[-]

Geminii27@reddit

I might be assuming that anything calling itself a business, or even an organization, that employs anyone at all would have the capacity to have a technical person or MSP on call for even as little as fifty hours a year, to help with setting such things up and doing the occasional bit of monitoring/maintenance.

[-]

BigRedNutcase@reddit

You are assuming the person has the requisite know how to ask in the first place. A lot of people do not think about if it just might be possible to make the process better. They just do the job and don't think beyond that.

[-]

Geminii27@reddit

Oh, trust me, I know that all too well. One of the reasons I went into process consulting; I spent over a decade improving processes in big employers over my lunch breaks and never getting paid for the six to eight figures per year I usually saved them (sometimes several times over).

Interestingly, it was actually a similar skillset to troubleshooting. "This computer is too slow" -> "This process takes too much time/money."

[-]

NDaveT@reddit

I suspect something was already set up and the user didn't understand how to use it or what it was for.

[-]

alleecmo@reddit

She's doing all of this... Do you think this lady knows anything about The Cloud? Besides, depending on the confidentiality of the files, and the business' IT security protocols (if any?), The Cloud might be the very last place to put them.

[-]

Geminii27@reddit

I mean, sure, you wouldn't want to put any business stuff on the cloud if possible. Any kind of on-prem storage, even a NAS, would be fine.

[-]

af_cheddarhead@reddit

Lots of small non-profits and the like are lucky to have usable PCs, budget and technical knowhow to implement a NAS is not there. You'ld be better off showing them how to transfer files with a thumb drive.

[-]

Geminii27@reddit

Ouch. If there's no budget to have a tech contractor on call for maybe one hour a week, I don't know if I'd even call it a viable organization at all. Certainly such setups sound extremely fragile, and could become unable to operate with even the slightest issue.

[-]

af_cheddarhead@reddit

Drop by your local church sometime.

[-]

Geminii27@reddit

Would this be a branch of a major religion that operates in the multiple billions of dollars per year?

[-]

showyerbewbs@reddit

To put it simply, psychology.

We as humans live and work within our workflows. As well as what we know of them. Sometimes that amount of knowledge is vast and wide ranging. BUT. To the end user, they don't give a shit. They just want to know how to get their cheese.

Example. New computer with Adobe preinstalled. They have a PDF that is upside down. Clicking the rotate button brings up the Adobe licensing prompt. What to do? Well they just get an adobe license.

What do we do? Rip adobe out by it's roots, maybe the more adventerous among us put in registry edits to block adobe completely. Then we fire up edge for probably the only time and download firefox and/or brave. Then re-do the file associations so we can easily manipulate the PDF file. Or maybe something like Foxit. But we already know how to do that.

The MOMENT you say "don't use adobe" you've lost them. Why? They use adobe at work so it must be good so they M U S T use adobe everywhere.

You have to balance new knowledge with that barrier. They will resist change. So many of us I think especially here remain curious and willing to try different approaches. The general public don't give a fuck.

[-]

ChangeMyDespair@reddit

You’re doing God’s work.

P.S.: Instead of Edge-for-the-only-time, can you use Winget?

[-]

Shinhan@reddit

Asking Tech Support to setup it up properly is probably a complicated process that takes a long time. Of course this explanation doesn't make sense when you consider how much time she wasted on years of doing it this way, but some people would rather constantly do something that's only better in short term but is much, MUCH, worse in long term.

[-]

CoachSevere5365@reddit

A mate of mine worked for a pharmaceutical company in the 1980s. From Monday to Thursday he'd generate stock reports and purchase orders. On Friday he'd turn his chair round and rekey the purchase orders into the actual purchasing system. Madness.

[-]

Traveling-Techie@reddit

I’m reminded of a story that ended with carrier pigeons carrying optical film.

[-]

waldcha@reddit

IPoA is a protocol that exists

[-]

nymalous@reddit

My boss sent me a request, in writing, for certain reports to be sent via carrier pigeon. So far I've been waiting for budget approval for at least seven years...

[-]

skeletonchoji@reddit

A flash drive would be better than her way

[-]

FauxReal@reddit

"I found this free flash drive on the ground in the parking lot."

[-]

squeegee_boy@reddit

Score.

[-]

kagato87@reddit

Sneakernet! I remember Sneakernet!

[-]

jeffrey_f@reddit

More magic. Mapped network drive to a network server share on both computers. No intermediate action required.

[-]

LeomundsTinyButt_@reddit

My ex-FIL has a niche hobby where the good supplies are only sold online. He's also deathly scared of online shopping. So he finds the stuff he wants, and emails it to his son to buy for him. Inconvenient but not crazy, right? No, wrong. Because his method is to print the webpage (to paper). Scan the print. And send that by e-mail.

(I asked my ex why not teach him to copy/paste a link, or at the very least print to pdf. The answer was "he'll send more if it's easy", which I can't argue with.)

[-]

af_cheddarhead@reddit

Long distance relationship, my SO will go on Amazon and handwrite what she wants, take a photo of the note with her phone and text me the photo, all because she refused to purchase anything online.

I used to frequently order the wrong item because her handwriting is terrible, now I get on the phone with her to make sure I'm ordering the correct item.

We are both in our 60's but come on.

[-]

PineScentedSewerRat@reddit

I need to use that logic more often

[-]

DeciduousEmu@reddit

A story as old as time itself.

[-]

NDaveT@reddit

300,000 years ago:

"We're out of reeds."

"That's OK, we have willow bark. You can weave baskets out of any flexible plant matter."

"I AM NOT A BASKET PERSON!"

[-]

NDaveT@reddit

I wonder what these people think computers are for.

[-]

saoirse_eli@reddit

Was she really bad at it or was she just Japanese? Because between: “I was told to do so, I know it’s stupid, you know it’s stupid, I know you know I know it’s stupid but I’ll do it because I don’t want to go against the rules and: “if I do it in 3h, instead of 30sec, at least I’ll look busy”, you already have a big part of Japanese work culture.

[-]

TheOneDeadXEra@reddit

"Recommending a change in process would be seen as undermining my superior, and all I'd get beyond my boss thinking I'm gunning for their job is more work to fill the time I've saved, so why would I do that?"

[-]

AnalogiPod@reddit

So much about the Japanese company I just started with makes sense now...

[-]

ThePianisst@reddit (OP)

We had a lot of’ it’s a stuff way but that’s the way’ but this wasn’t one of them unfortunately. She just was the way she was.

[-]

saoirse_eli@reddit

Makes the story even better; you found a white sapphire in a bag of diamonds.

[-]

zaro3785@reddit

Yes, my first thought was inefficient Japanese bureaucracy

[-]

scumotheliar@reddit

oooh I had almost exactly this with a woman I dated for a while.

Churchy lady, she compiled the church newsletter.

It took her almost a week to do a three page newsletter, I didn't take a lot of notice until I walked in one day and saw it. She would get submissions by Email, print the Email, then proceed to type what she had printed into a spot in the newsletter, two finger typist too.

I showed her CtrlC, CtrlV and she just about fainted.

[-]

acadmonkey@reddit

Oh bless her heart.

[-]

code_monkey_001@reddit

I worked in Japan in the mid/late 90s. Once went to a bank to convert some yen to dollars. They filled out a huge document, photocopied it, took a razor blade and cut a line item off of the photocopy, then took rubber cement and pasted that strip of paper into a daily ledger.

[-]

Lee_Bv@reddit

Just use LocalSend now.

[-]

mkaibear@reddit

A previous workplace went "paperless" and quadrupled their paper consumption in a year.

Before; case files arrived, were bundled into a folder, folder was sent to formalities, they did their thing to make sure it was in order, folder was sent to legal professionals, they did their thing to make sure it was legal, folder was sent to publication, they did their thing, folder was sent to the archives.

After; case file arrived, was scanned in and shredded. Formalities got the digital file, printed it, worked on it, got it in order, scanned it, shredded it...

You can see where this is going.

Admittedly this was a transitional step as they moved towards a full digital process which they're now on, apart from the final step which involves a physical archive copy by law (and they're working to get that law changed)

But still. 🤣

[-]

maceion@reddit

An archive paper copy has saved lives in UK, when medical systems went down. Do not discard this ultimate 'archive copy'. We can still read medieval records, when we have lost about two years worth of BBC radio and TV programs , when the recoding device (also play back device) failed as none knew how to recreate it.

[-]

mkaibear@reddit

Things that are mission critical or life critical, absolutely.

Things that go out of date after 25 years and are electronically recorded in dozens if not hundreds of places anyway (because they are shared with multiple organisations around the world)? Not so much.

But your comment about caution is absolutely right!

[-]

wisym@reddit

In a previous place of employment, I had someone put tickets in and do the following with the error message:
take a screenshot

print out screenshot in black and white

scan in printed out screenshot

email in that scan for the ticket.

get upset when I told them we couldn't read the error message.

[-]

gregortroll@reddit

How do I edit this PDF? (It's a grainy scan printed to PDF back when OCR required a separate application...that was not free)

"You don't."

[-]

Forma313@reddit

Haha, reminds me of my old job (not IT) at a transportation company. They needed a digital copy of all incoming complaints in the software for managing complaints. So, incoming physical mail would be scanned, and the file would be added to the complaint. So far so sane. But the complaints system couldn't talk to the email system. So, every day, all the incoming complaint emails would be printed out (from outlook IIRC), then scanned and then added to the complaint as an image. To add insult to injury, this was done on an ageing flatbed scanner, that would regularly sometimes just refuse to work. They had one guy doing nothing but scan documents day in, day out.

[-]

jdog7249@reddit

I email myself things all the time.

[-]

Legitimate_Ferret_61@reddit

I email myself photos from iOS regularly as it quick way to convert them to a usable format

[-]

bosbiblebob@reddit

you can convert to jpg directly on export in iOS though

[-]

gadget850@reddit

I had a customer who was doing something similar: printing a PDF from one app and scanning it into another app. I showed him how to import PDFs into the second app.

[-]

LeomundsTinyButt_@reddit

Ah, those silly Japanese. I'm glad I live in a technologically advanced place like Germany. Here when dealing with government forms you just have to go to the website. Download them. Fill them out. Print them. And bring them with you to your appointment. Where the person attending you scans them and immediately tosses them into the paper shredder.

(This finally changed in my city around 2 years ago, ruining my joke of "One day, someone will invent a method to transfer a file directly from one computer to another!")

[-]

InteractionHairy6112@reddit

Ive had similar in the past couple of years.

Wanting to convert a Word doc to PDF, printed the Word doc, scanned it in and then got the photocopier to send the scan by email in pdf.

Showed her that she could just do save as pdf, wouldn't be surprised if she's still printing and scanning though.

[-]

Logical_Challenge540@reddit

Considering that there are airgapped facilities, transferring data without internet is still relevant...

[-]

Row-Bear@reddit

We should be able to optimize that. Perhaps we can rig the output of computer A's printer to feed directly into computer BS scanner feed tray. The paper output of the scanner then slides into the shredder. We place a few reams of blank paper into the scanners input feed, and start a scan job. This ensures the scanner is practically 'always on', so any prints by computer A go on top of the blank paper stack and get processed automatically.

Then we just need an intern to record which of the scanned pages are empty and which have data, and save that index somewhere.

We can optimise this maybe if we change the reams of blank paper in the scanner to loop. We tape a dozen pages end to end and create a cycling belt of paper. This reduces the waste of shredding blank sheets

[-]

singul4r1ty@reddit

This doesn't sound airgapped any more

[-]

Rathmun@reddit

It might not be airgapped, but trying to use that connection to transfer data the other direction will be exceedingly difficult. And sometimes that's all you really need from an airgap. "Make sure none of this data can be exfiltrated."

[-]

Row-Bear@reddit

Well there has to be a physical, probably plastic, slide from the printer output to the scanner input. But I still think that qualifies as 'airgapped'.

[-]

andypanty69@reddit

Perhaps the output slide could be could be half the total length needed but slightly higher than the half serving as input for the next stage. A couple of millis would still count as an air gap.

[-]

cool_lad@reddit

True.

But even by that metric, her method, as a general use method for a company rather than for extremely niche cases, seems like a colossal waste of time, money, and effort; all for no actual gain to anyone.

[-]

Honest_Relation4095@reddit

It's not as uncommon as one might think. I know of several similar cases in some IT systems for hospitals. Two systems have different specifications and there are legal requirements and standards to be met, so connecting the systems would require proper SW engineering. Of course, smart leadership does not want to allocate significant budget to something that "unimportant". It creates a lot of additional work, but more work for nurses and doctors doesn't directly show up as costs anywhere. And it is a different budget anyway. So what's the issue of filling out a form on a computer, printing it out, scanning it sending it, use OCR to import the data into another form on a different computer in the same network?It worked for years, didnt it?

[-]