They said it worked on Windows 95
Posted by Gerund54@reddit | talesfromtechsupport | View on Reddit | 37 comments
Cast your mind back to 1995 when Windows 95 became a thing. This is set in late 95 or early 96 when new computers came exclusively with Win 95.
I had a customer who had an existing system for inventory, POS and accounting. It was a DOS based system and was written in Visual Basic. Not Studio or .net. Just visual Basic.
So customer wanted to upgrade computer and existing system to latest version. I was not a reseller for the system, but they agreed to sell a new version to me. I asked them if it worked under Win 95. They assured me 100% it worked.
I assumed they had tested it under Win 95 after such a definitive statement. I was wrong they lied.
First problem was they wanted customers details before they sold it to me. I was suspicious, so i gave them his name and my fax and phone number.
So then first problem was all the data didn't transfer correctly. I rang them and they asked for a copy of the system. They stated that Windows backup onto floppy discs would be sufficient. So backup was done and airbag to remote city.
Clue 1:
A day after they received it I received a fax addressed to customer with page after page of error messages and a suggestion that customer contact their Authorised Dealer locally. I rang them and asked politely what restore version they used. They said DOS 6.2.
We all know why they got errors don't we? Versions of backup and restore were not compatible between versions of DOS. I asked less politely why they were attempting to throw me under the bus when the mistake was theirs alone. The answer was not really satisfying. We resolved the restore problem and then they sent a new version of the transfer program which did transfer correctly.
Then the customer attempted to do the end of month on the new system. He sold things and at the end of every month he ran a summary report of everything he had ever stocked with on hand and sales per month columns. He then looked at it on the screen. On his old system it worked fine. On his new system it gave "Out of memory" errors before it finished the report. It did this even when I quit Win 95 and the underlying DOS system showed 640K free.
Clue 2:
I contacted the supplier of this program and the help person told me I had to run memmaker on the system to allow enough RAM for the report to run. Evidently every report ran in memory and had no spooling capability. I advised them that this was a brand new Win 95 system and as such did not have an autoexec.bat or config.sys. It also did not use (or need) memmaker.
The help person told me "Trust me, you just need to run memmaker" I asked them if they had run this program on Win 95 and it turned out that they had not. In fact they had a copy of Win 95, but had not installed it. They had plans to install it on one of their own computers at home. As well they had no access to the developers who existed in another country. They had no idea how to fix it or even to go about finding anything to do.
I realised I had been lied to by lying liars who lie. (pants on fire). I had anger issues in those days, especially when people lied to me. I gave them a roasting for being idiots. Unfortunately I did this in the customer's shop and I'm sure he heard me call them liars (and worse).
I told him that there was no way for me to make his system work for his report without some limit being placed on the number of items selected. In perfect hindsight perhaps some limit on vcache in system.ini may have helped, but I had no knowledge of this. In those days there was not the plethora of websites available with all the knowledge anyone could want.
I was never invited back to his shop, and I found out later that the local Authorised Dealer for that program took over that customer. I have no knowledge if they ever fixed that (unpolished) piece of .... I decided I wanted nothing more to do with them.
In hindsight perhaps I could have questioned them more about their blanket statement that it 100% ran on Win 95. Perhaps I could have been more tactful when talking to them on the phone. Part of the problem was that the customer was an hours drive from me (and an hour back) and that the main supplier of this program was 2000 Kms away from both of us. I was calling them on my mobile phone which cost me lots of money in those days and I had other customers who needed me more.
dannybau87@reddit
I think they need to teach in IT courses that people lie and how to deal with it in an consecutive manner.
In my early days if a user lied to me and it cost me a significant amount of time I'd refuse to troubleshoot anything until I received an explanation in writing why they lied to me and how they thought it would help.
(They never did and management forced me to help them)
justking1414@reddit
That’d be a fun part of the curriculum. Professor explains a situation, asks what’s wrong, everyone guesses for thirty minutes, before he reveals it was something super simple but the user just lied
Menzador@reddit
Q: What's green and has wheels?
A: Grass.
Q: Huh?
RubenGarciaHernandez@reddit
They teach this in Medicine, I don´t see why they couldn´t do this also in CS.
akcrono@reddit
CS isn't really IT
RcNorth@reddit
And paperwork isn’t really healthcare (medicine). But a lot of time is spent on it.
akcrono@reddit
Sure, but the degree to do medical paperwork is a different degree.
land8844@reddit
It absolutely crosses over.
akcrono@reddit
Not much. I didn't really learn anything in my degree that helped with anything I do IT related.
justking1414@reddit
Thank god they teach that in medicine.
davidgrayPhotography@reddit
Had this happen tons of times before. Walked clear across the other side of the site to fix a "my internet isn't working" issue, got there and found that not only was their internet not working, but neither was their keyboard, mouse, USB drive, charger, or ENTIRE GODDAMN SCREEN.
Turns out the docking station was dead. If they had've told me "my everything is not working", I would have brought a spare docking station just in case instead of having to walk alllll the way back to my office, grab a spare dock, then walk allllll the way back to the user's office, install the new dock, then walk alllllll the way back to the office. Total distance walked was about a kilometer (almost 3/4 of a mile), caused by someone burying the lede.
spaceraverdk@reddit
Exercise is healthy.
Unless you want to become a 400# blob, or already am.
jimicus@reddit
I don't think it'd have done much good in this case.
Customer needs their application to work. They probably don't care too much about the niceties of the OS.
Vendor's application - despite assurances to the contrary - does NOT work under Win95.
OPs options would have been a bit thin on the ground. Short of installing DOS 6.2, I'm struggling to see what their options were.
davidgrayPhotography@reddit
They should also teach that some people will go around you to get what they want, and despite assurances that you won't get thrown under the bus for them not even telling you what hell they've cooked up, you're still going to get thrown under the bus, at least for a tire or two.
Stryker_One@reddit
I believe that Office Space has addressed how to deal with offending..., systems.
Naltoc@reddit
Funny you say this. I moonlight teaching a couple intro courses and supervising masters thesis at my local uni. One thing they seem to love is my stories from the Teal World (tm) and the moral of the story is almost always "so anyways, So-and-so lied like their careers depended on it!"
... I hate people. If it wasn't for people, IT would be a much better world.
Itchy_Influence5737@reddit
Does it work under Win95?
"Yes"
Show me.
jimicus@reddit
There was nothing like the remote access tools available in those days, and the vendor was 2,000 km away. "Show me" simply wasn't a sentence you'd say.
Most technical support operated by verbally talking people through processes.
EruditeLegume@reddit
Great story, and yup completely agree re vendors.
Just a FWIW, pcAnywhere has been around since (at least) the early '90s.
(Source: am an ex-production engineer that used to remote into our "overseer" PC circa '93
flyingemberKC@reddit
100% certain this is a lie, it's the details that give you away (the point of the story)
autoexec.bat and config.sys absolutely existed on win 95.
Gerund54@reddit (OP)
Yes they did. If you upgraded from DOS to Win 95 100% autoexec.bat and config.sys existed. You could also get memmaker.exe to run on Win 95. 100% memmaker.exe did nothing. 100% autoexec.bat and config.sys still loaded drivers. As far as memory went though, loadhi did nothing.
Critical_Ad_8455@reddit
Why not just boot into dos?
NoeticSkeptic@reddit
I assume they could not just run in DOS because the program made multiple calls to Windows that would cause the computer to crap itself.
jimicus@reddit
Doesn't sound like it.
What it sounds like is this:
Prior to Windows '9x, line of business applications targeted at small businesses were often written for DOS. It was the lowest common denominator, and it was a lot easier to write code for than Windows.
DOS had a RAM limit of 640Kb.
That's for everything. OS, any drivers you might have loaded, applications and their data.
Various tricks were employed when it became obvious this wasn't realistic - problem is, most of those tricks were effectively made redundant when Win95 was released.
Most DOS programs ran in Windows '95 with no changes. But I don't doubt for a minute there were a few edge cases - things that for whatever reason simply didn't work. And it sounds like OP found one.
Gerund54@reddit (OP)
Everything else worked. All the input screens, all the other reports (shorter ones that didn't use all memory). After all it was DOS 7.0 and Win 95 ran under it. A DOS screen was just like DOS 6.3 except for the memory limit.
Gerund54@reddit (OP)
Tried that, didn't work.
CoffeeOrDestroy@reddit
Rule #1: Everyone lies
Gerund54@reddit (OP)
Rule #2 See rule 1
m3galinux@reddit
Rule #3, its never lupus. Except when it is.
/house-md
Narrow-Dog-7218@reddit
“No, I haven’t spilled anything on it”
iacchi@reddit
Happy cake day!
SnooRegrets8068@reddit
Don't spill it on the laptop
NoeticSkeptic@reddit
In the early days of Windows, I worked as one of the technical writers of the user manual for a contractor for the top telecom company in the US. The company was the developer of a new telecommunications program. We sometimes had questions about the software for the programmers. The programmers were in Poland, and we were in the US. None of the programmers spoke English. Luckily, I was normally an analyst and programmer, and I realized I could have rudimentary communication with the programmers using "C" Language. It was hard, but we could communicate.
nymalous@reddit
I find that to be somewhat awesome.
mercurygreen@reddit
Well... POS software, generally, hasn't gotten much better in 30 years. As in "It's still a Piece Of Shit"
SlitScan@reddit
yes, but it spies on your company too. so its all fine.
VexingRaven@reddit
I hope the lesson of testing on a copy of production was learned on both sides here.