No, you can't just upgrade any CPU
Posted by Lakehounds@reddit | talesfromtechsupport | View on Reddit | 63 comments
As the only person in my family who works in IT, I'm permanently on call as my parents' tech support despite living halfway across the country. My dad usually calls about a server he wants to set up, and my mum usually calls about basic "how do I do this on Excel" questions.
The other day, dad called me saying he's thinking of upgrading the graphics card in his main PC. This machine is about 13 years old at least and has integrated graphics only, and about 4GB of DDR3. he says it struggles to run Photoshop which....yeah. I bet it does.
After a bit of a chat he says he wants to upgrade the CPU as well. He says he has an early generation i5, and wants to upgrade to a late gen i9.
Without upgrading the motherboard.
At this point I'm thinking, just get parts for a whole new PC at this point, but he's adamant that it would be cheaper to just swap the GPU and CPU. Oh dad, I wish it worked like that!
I went through with him all the reasons he can't just pop a new i9 in there and be done, in particular the fact that it literally won't fit in the socket. Eventually, he begrudgingly accepted the PC was no longer fit for purpose, and I offered to find the parts for him and give an idea of the price.
It struck me later that night that my dad taught me how to build computers. He and I built my XP machine which I had all the way up until 2013! He built every computer in his office and at our house. But technology has moved on, and left him behind. So now I get to be the teacher :)
Geminii27@reddit
Repurpose the original machine as something else? I know all too well the "I don't want to throw out something that still technically works" feeling. Especially if I've been using it as my main workstation for years.
MixtureOdd5403@reddit
There are Linux distros specifically designed for old and slow hardware. I played around with a couple of them a few years ago and they worked surprisingly well.
spaceraverdk@reddit
Damn Small Linux.
Debian can be whittled down to almost nothing but samba and ftp.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
yeah i know the feeling too :') unfortunately it's no longer cost effective to try and ship of theseus it since any upgrade necessitates the upgrade of other components too. but it's likely to get repuporsed rather than scrapped at least! he's been experimenting with Linux and that should suit this machine better than trying to keep it up as his Adobe workhorse. iirc we still have a CRT attached to one of the computers, which was mine in the early 2000s!
AshleyJSheridan@reddit
To be honest, with the direction that Adobe is taking Photoshop now (they effectively have the full rights to whatever you create with it - check the terms and conditions), maybe this is an opportunity to move away from it to something that is less memory intensive and lets you retain the rights to what you create?
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
personally I don't use Adobe for precisely this reason - dad loves Lightroom though and is reluctant to move off it (no idea what it's costing per month to have photoshop and lightroom)
A_norny_mousse@reddit
That's actually pretty cool. I'm sure it's only locally but it's a large step towards mastering tech instead of letting it master you.
And your conversation seems to have to gone the right way even if it could've been shorter!
A wholesome story.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
yeah it was a positive story I just wanted to share! the server is for redundancy and backup, he's a photographer and he's concerned about losing terabytes of work due to a drive failure. I can't help much because it's a NAS server using Ubuntu - my only experience is Windows Server for AD and software deployment, I've never touched the NAS at my workplace or explored RAID setups. So I don't understand some of what he's trying to ask me - luckily my partner has just set up a NAS of their own so I'm sure they'll get the full interview experience next time we visit!
but I build and upgrade machines regularly at work so I'm comfy helping out and spending time together putting together new hardware :)
Stryker_One@reddit
Backblaze. Seriously.
Valheru78@reddit
As a former Windows sysadmin and current Linux sysadmin I advise anyone to dive into Linux at least a little bit, it looks extremely complex but it's so much more versatile than Windows in many ways.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
it seems interesting! I've used cinnamon/mint a bit on VMs, the gui on that makes it easier to start with imo. but I'm getting more comfortable working in cmd so maybe I'll give Ubuntu or debian another shot soon!
Valheru78@reddit
For GUI I also often use mint, since this is an Ubuntu clone that works fine, for servers without GUI I use Ubuntu. At my work (astronomical institute) we use a mix of Scientific Linux 7 (older desktops), Rocky Linux 8/9 (newer desktops and servers) and CentOS (servers).
Basically you have the Debian/Ubuntu barred variants and the Redhat based variants. For beginners I would usually advise the Debian/Ubuntu versions
ArkofVengeance@reddit
I agree, i'm the other way around, i was a linux sysadmin for 4 years and at my current job i'm a windows sysadmin.
It's not just that linux is more versatile knowing your way around it also helps you understand the windows command line/powershell better, which can save your butt on tricky issues.
falcopilot@reddit
Generally, having experience in more than one way of doing things helps you understand the actual task, not just how to do it for Windows/Linux.
Counterpoint, if you understand the task, you can usually puzzle your way through it on any platform.
mapbits@reddit
If he's not already, maybe the two of you can help him find some cloud backup or a process to rotate backups to a second location / safety deposit box. Lots of risk having the backups in the same place as the source.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
yeah agreed, I suggested cloud backups but he's not well off enough to spend a large subscription fee for tens of terabytes of backup. but this is a good start for peace of mind
mani_jeenu@reddit
you can setup windows server with storage spaces. much easier to use and change drives in case if failure. i am a windows guy and photographer too. I use this method. 3 x 12 tb drives setup in storage spaces
ZirePhiinix@reddit
A server doesn't actually mean a powerful computer. A raspberry pi can be a server.
Popeye64@reddit
Since he wants a server - use the old computer with proxmox and get him a new one for the desktop.
CheezitsLight@reddit
You can easily look up the chip and the socket and then search by socket. I have the highest speed part on ebay. Boards that era have solid benchmarks for I7 and xeons. Typically about 35 to 50 bucks. I use cpubenchmark
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
yeah next time I visit I'm going to try and find out the socket and go from there as to whether he should look at upgrading to a whole new machine. GPU and ram aren't really a problem, just CPU
CheezitsLight@reddit
An Ssd is, essential.. A Samsung comes with what you need to replace the boot drive. Call. Him up. And hlget him into quick assist. Then look at system info. Or have him read the cpu off from that.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
oh yeah I'm thinking i need to test other parts for him anyway so might as well check out the CPU at the same time! I think resource monitor also tells you what it has too. he's already moved from spinners to SSDs, I think he has an M.2 for his OS
trevdelder78@reddit
What does he do for a job. Explain that the engine that is in his car is the exact same he has to replace it with. Can't get a 2024 engine from the dealer and expect everything to work the same. Same goes for the PC.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
that's a good analogy! though I will admit I did ask my partner "couldn't I just get a banger and put a better engine in it" recently and they responded by showing videos of car mods where they literally have to cut open the bonnet to fit it in lol
AaronCorr@reddit
I learned that exact lesson last year. Looked up cpus since mine occasionally hit its limits. Then found out that my 8 year old mainboard wouldn't support the current cpus.
todobasura@reddit
I relate to him. I’m reluctant to buy another PC because of the programs I have that I can’t get for a price, they all want subscription. For something I use once in a while …
falcopilot@reddit
Build a new machine, put a hypervisor on it, and convert your old physical box to a virtual machine. Proably still be faster if you give it enough RAM.
yrabl81@reddit
He's right about cheaper but it wouldn't work...
CheezitsLight@reddit
Hdd, just say no. 50 bucks for a small ssd and that machine will Boot 10 to 20x faster.
gophergun@reddit
Shout out to AMD keeping sockets alive long enough to make CPU swaps viable. Not quite 13 years, but 8 years of AM4 is a pretty great run.
PossibilityOrganic@reddit
That seams like the perfect use of a cheap old "workstation" pc you can get an old e3 xeon with a quatro for under $200. And ecc memoery for a bit of piece of mind against bit rot.
the_syco@reddit
Would advise running a "will my machine run W11" in an effort to get him to upgrade the entire machine.
Sadly I'll have to upgrade my entire rig sooner rather than later, but my i5-4670k certainly lasted! Heck, it went with me to Toronto for two years and then back to Ireland a few years back. But I'll just be upgrading mobo/ram/CPU, as everything else will be grand.
-
As for keeping old parts, I'm finding it hard to get PCI cards on new enterprise machines! Had to install a SCSI card recently in Windows 10 in my work. Not fun, especially as the latest official driver from the manufacturer was for W7, but got it done.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
he did mention wanting to upgrade to win 11haha, maybe this will get him. I didn't know PCIs were getting rarer, that's interesting! speaking of keeping old parts, I've got 300x 120GB SSDs sitting around at work and I'd hate to scrap them all but they're just...no longer useful. such a shame...
the_syco@reddit
Check their lifespan. I'd say a lot of them are only a few hundred hours away from dying at this stage. I got a 120GB Corsair when it first came out, and it got slightly corrupted 6 or 7 years ago which prevented me from booting off it.
Slow4Speed@reddit
Or he wanted some quality time with his kid doing what im sure he fondly remembers doing with you. My dad did this and I've in turn done it with my son.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
bit of both - we like to talk tech with each other and I'm visiting next month anyway, I've promised to have a look at some of his problems with the machines! it just makes me real happy that I'm now knowledgeable enough to really take part in the convos 🧡
Apprehensive_Bit4767@reddit
If I can just piggyback on one of the conversations to about the op not being able to help his dad because it's a Linux project. You can 100% help your dad with that. His requirements and his ask is not that big and Linux isn't some black box software that you can't get answers for. You seem very proficient in your knowledge and a lot of what he's asking for already comes in a easily downloadable distro. I myself run something called unraid but there's other ones out there. There's some plus and some minuses to using it, but overall it's pretty good but it may not fit your overall project. But it is server software for backing up and storing of large amounts of information whether it be photos, documents, PDFs, etc etc etc. Good luck but don't give up on helping your dad with the Linux thing. I think it'll help you get your feet into a project that you yourself may want to spin up one day
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
thank you! I just don't feel in the position to advise best practice for him at this point - it's only recently clicked for me what some of the common RAID types are. I'm gonna be listening and watching intently when my dad and my linux-proficient partner get to work on it though so I'll learn :)
Mr-ShinyAndNew@reddit
This is similar to my story. My dad was the computer expert in the house until I caught up to him. Now he calls me to troubleshoot his wifi. Last year my 13yo kid built his own computer without my help (I did double check his work). I dunno how exactly he learned what he needed to know... Hours of research on Reddit I guess?
Awlson@reddit
Probably YouTube videos, actually.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
God bless the random dudes on YouTube with the worst camera quality but the best instructional videos on computer and car maintenance! they're often way better than the instruction vids big companies put out
Awlson@reddit
Agreed, and happy cake day!
Gadgetman_1@reddit
I work in IT myself, and have done so since the 90s...
I think I fell off the train sometime just after Y2K.
Back then it was just so much easier;
General PC usage; Just get what the supplier suggested, but demand double the RAM and a slightly larger HDD. And make certain he understood that 'Doble the RAM' meant 'use larger memory modules, NOT more of the crap he wanted to get rid of' (we wanted to keep slots available for future upgrades)
CAD work? How much RAM can we fit in that machine, and what's the largest Quantuum Fireball HDD in stock?
Graphics card? Just ask the CADders what Autodesk reccommended.
Honestly, whch CPU was in it didn't really matter. The HDD and Graphics cards were the main drags, anyway, and the RAM took the spot after.
PCI1/2/3/4?
Eh... We had VESA LocalBus on the way out and First Gen PCI coming in.
Besides, I was getting more into servers back then, and then the question was more 'how many HDDs can we get into it, how fast are they and what's the best RAID controller for it?' RAM we just maxed anyway. And CPU still didn't matter.
So when I bought a gaming rig this year, I selected a pre-built, and just selected a larger SSD(2TB) and left everything else as it was. (16GB RAM, may need to upgrade that later, and a 4060TI card. )
CPU socket?
I think it has a 1700whatever, so I should be good for rat least another Intel CPU Generation?
As long as we can get decent pre-built PCs from our suppliers we just don't bother learning all that stuff.
alf666@reddit
Sadly, the Socket LGA 1700 is in its second (and probably last) generation, Intel is changing their naming convention almost completely with their next generation of CPUs, and it will almost certainly involve a socket and chipset change as well.
Side note, North Bridge and South Bridge are things of the past, these days we just have "chipsets".
Also, there are a few minutes when you first boot your computer where it might "train" the RAM and show nothing but a blank screen. Don't freak out if that happens, just let it sit there for around 5 minutes while you grab a coffee.
In a nutshell, this "RAM training" is done due to how fast RAM is these days, which means the CPU needs to build a table of any anomalies with instructions on how to handle them. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but someone else with more knowledge can explain further.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
North and South Bridge aren't terms I've heard before, what were they?
alf666@reddit
The Northbridge handled interactions between the CPU, RAM, and PCI-E slots, while the Southbridge handled interactions between the CPU and USB devices and other legacy ports/systems.
These days, CPUs are fast enough that they can handle all of that themselves, so there is no longer a need for separate systems.
ProspectivePolymath@reddit
Maybe this is the perfect excuse to visit, and build the new one together again?
SavvySillybug@reddit
Depending on just how early generation that i5 is, he might get away with an upgrade.
I still use an i7-4790 on my secondary gaming rig, paired with a 1660 Super and 16GB DDR3 RAM. It's beautifully smooth still.
A quad core with hyperthreading is still very capable in 2024. It's just the i5s and below of that era that are REALLY showing their age.
mitko_bg_@reddit
My secondary PC also has an i7 4790 and 16GB DDR3, but a GTX1070Ti, runs Windows 11 pretty well and the games I want to play on it. And despite any logic I'm still using a PC with Xeon E3 1270 (basically i7 2600), 16GB DDR3 RAM and GTX1060 6GB running Windows 7 and I'm happy with the performance (second OS is Win11, but mainly use 7), still does everything I need it to do.
Samout-@reddit
Me here using my i7 4790k and 1080ti as daily gaming machine.
tibike262@reddit
whoah i7-6600k with gtx960 running daily for 10 years here 🙃
xmastreee@reddit
How old is he? I'm 64 and the first PC I built was a 486, long before Windows XP. It had DOS 6 on it. Back then I knew most of what I needed to know. Juggling serial port addresses and IRQs to avoid conflicts between mouse/modem/printer (I shared one IRQ between the printer and the modem, since I probably wasn't going to print when I was online, and vice-versa.) Anyway, these days I'm kinda lost with all the options available, so my last PC, I just went to the shop, we worked out what I needed and they built it for me.
Fixes_Computers@reddit
I'm glad we don't have to juggle IRQs anymore. Having to set jumpers and only having a small number of options your card would support and trying to not overlap anything else.
Also, COM2 was slightly faster than COM1 because it defaulted to a lower IRQ.
Lakehounds@reddit (OP)
he's 73, he was building pcs longer than I can remember. I remember he set up the printer in the loft so that his machines, mine and the living room PC could all print to it - which felt a bit like magic to me as a kid! he also had a shared network drive with all his music on it so we could listen to it too, he was pretty savvy!
when my grandad was around the age my dad is now he was really good with computers, we recently went to his house to start clearing it out to sell it and he's kept the original manuals, packaging and floppy disks for everything! I found a floppy with drivers for a mouse. he started using computers back when they took up a whole room. sadly 20 years went by and he's not able to hold all the information in his working memory anymore, but he can just about work his smartphone.
this reminded me of a very fond memory of the first time I used MSN messager... dad set me up an email address and password, sat me down at the living room PC and said "wait for a sec" while he went up to the loft. a message pinged through from him, all the way across the house, and I just went WOW!!! it was the dawn of a whole new world for me haha.
I'm only a few years into my IT Support career so I'm still learning every day, but it's so nice chatting to my dad and talking about things that I'm learning, where dad knows the older way of doing things which were before my time, so we're both learning from each other.
lordskulldragon@reddit
I'm your dad now. Once they started coming out with "generations" of chips that's when I lost interest and stopped keeping up.
paladinsama@reddit
8086 -> 286 -> 386 -> 486 -> Pentium -> Pentium Pro -> Pentium II -> Pentium III -> Pentium 4 -> Pentium D -> Core -> Core 2 -> Core i -> 2nd Gen Core i -> 3rd Gen Core i -> 4th Gen Core i -> 5th Gen Core i -> 6th Gen Core i -> 7th Gen Core i -> 8th Gen Core i -> 9th Gen Core i -> 10th Gen Core i -> 11th Gen Core i -> 12th Gen Core i -> 13th Gen Core i -> 14th Gen Core i -> Core Ultra Series 1 -> Core Ultra Series 2.
In one way or another, there has always been generations whenever they were called generations or not.
apollo4242@reddit
As another old guy, I sympathize completely with your father. Tech challenges to my wife and me have simple and obvious solutions to them which my daughter and son help us with with carefully concealed exasperation.
So we like to joke with them about the kinds of tech help they'll be asking their kids for...
"Just roll your eyes to your left and the graphics access port will be easily accessible. No Dad, your other eye. SMH"
"Once you crack your second knuckle on your bergzhorp finger, you can easily lift up that fingernail to disconnect the cable that completes the rotunda. Then you will have the sensation of touch on that finger tip again. It's really not that complicated....."
k6lui@reddit
It seems that at least you can tell your dad that that's how tech goes. My dad just don't wants to believe that tech gets old fast and needs to be renewed at least somewhat frequently and just is the opinion that big tech company's are just ripping you off when a 6-10 year old device won't run newer software or OSes lol. Best answer so far is "but it still works, why should I buy something just to run this and that?!" And then just plainly gets mad.
WickedDeviance@reddit
This.post warmed my heart. My parents are also getting older. As they live with me, I get to be their tech person in general and assist them. Thank you for sharing!
lego-cat@reddit
Sounds like a great time to bond with your old man.
sssRealm@reddit
I can understand your dad's point of view. In decades past you had more flexibility in upgrading than now. When I was a teenager I had a Socket 7 computer that had compatibility with multiple generations and BRANDS of processors. I think I had 3 different processors in that motherboard.
Throwaway_Old_Guy@reddit
Happy 4^th Cake Day!