Unemployment office does not computer
Posted by Super_Bad_64@reddit | talesfromtechsupport | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Cast of characters:
$Me: Currently unemployed Linux system administrator. PFY without the P or the Y. Mild streaks of BOFH
$Drone: Unemployment office worker
$Manager: N+1 to the above. Might contain trace amounts of plaster and/or concrete due to poor locational choices when she was being rocked by her parents
$Companies: Bloodsuckers who usually think the idea of a livable wage to be utterly ridiculous. Also they want to hire me for some reason
For a bit of context, I left my job in early June due to what I will charitably call "major disagreements about remuneration". I've then signed up to the local unemployment office, after scrambling to find the login info I used for the last time about four years and two computers ago. Curse me for not saving that to the cloud /s
Anyway, summer being what it is, job postings are very sparse, so I spend most of my time doing other things. $Drone is the job counselor assigned to my case; incidentally she happened to be on vacation herself when I signed up so my first few mails were met with automated responses. Unfortunately for me she's also in charge of approving my unemployment benefits, so let's just say I got my July payment sometime around the middle of August.
One of the conditions to receive unemployment is to not reject more than two offers per month without cause. Said cause can be almost anything reasonable like the commute being too long, the pay not being enough, basically a bunch of somewhat logical reasons to reject a job. Note that you can cheat the system and just apply and present yourself as the most un-hireable person ever and this won't count against you; the unemployment office does not have access to the end result of interviews. But I digress.
One morning I receive ~~one~~ several calls from $Drone, who is back from vacation with a fire burning in her heart, and the equivalent of a heat based death ray directed at me.
$Drone: I noticed you have rejected the offer from $Company1. I'm calling to tell you this is your first warning.
$Company1 posted, as far as I can tell, a decent offer (if a little low on the simoleons). The one problem, and reason why I declined, is that their infrastructure is 100% Windows Server based. I try to position myself as a Linux guy; I need to have at the very least equal parts Linux and Windows Server to not have this job negatively affect my career path.
And if you think I'm over-reacting to this: I still get calls from EE companies that saw I made one Arduino project 10 years ago on some crusty old godforsaken version of my resume.
I proceed to explain the above to $Drone, but $Drone isn't a computer person.
$Drone: I don't understand how, and I don't need to; one more infraction and your unemployment will be suspended.
$Me, annoyed as fsck to be the Karen for once: Put me through to your manager. NOW.
Bad move. Turns out $Manager is even worse. Whodathought. You would think me quitting because I tried to talk to the lizardfolk in the first place would teach me something, but noooooo.
I explain the same situation to her, and her answer is somehow even worse.
$Manager: $Drone is right and actually I think you're being difficult on purpose.
$Me: The fsck do you mean "difficult on purpose" ?!
$Manager: We have sent you more than one reasonable offer for someone with your experience. You declined $Company2's very competitive offer-
$Me, interrupting her: $Company2's opening is for an e-waste sorter. [Note: I'm not entirely sure how to translate this; sorting electronic waste before processing and potentially shipping it out to specialized recycling plants]
$Manager: Yes, so it's in-line with your computer skills, right ?
$Me: Absolutely not. I operate computers; My role in their decommissioning usually stops at the recycling center's gates.
$Manager: But a job is a job.
$Me: The terms are pretty clear: I need to have a valid cause for rejecting a job. The job literally not being anywhere near close to what I have ever done should be a valid enough cause !
$Manager: All I'm seeing is that you're not willing to work, so I will have to suspend your benefits.
$Me, really losing it at this point: Listen carefully to me: THIS ISN'T MY JOB. I DO NOT WORK IN RECYCLING.
$Manager: But it's computers !
This went on a loop for a much longer time than it really should be. At some point I started asking for anybody with more computer literacy in the building, hopefully someone specialized in IT recruiting, hell at this point I'd have talked to a potted plant if it put $Manager out of my nonexistant hair for a minute.
Apparently my local unemployment office doesn't have a recruiter specialized in IT, despite being located in the middle of an office district known to abduct entire classes worth of graduates every fall. 21st century my shiny metal arse. Ended up having to call the national unemployment office, and wait for an hour to have a five minute conversation with an IT specialist that acted like he will schedule training for $Drone and $Manager. I'm off the hook for now, but I don't know how long that will last.
efahl@reddit
You need some analogies for the non-IT-ish people. "If I were an auto mechanic, specializing in diagnostic systems, do you think I should take a job in a wrecking yard because 'it's cars!'"
Tight_Syllabub9423@reddit
They'd probably say yes.
dennisthetiger@reddit
I mean, to be fair, there is an aspect of disassembly in auto repair. Granted, it's not so much an aspect as with Pick and Pull, who will happily sell you car parts from old wrecks.
1337_BAIT@reddit
Yeah, like, until you get another job. Almost definetly
dRaidon@reddit
It's more like 'I'm a mechanic working on cargoships' and they want to sent me to work on airplanes.
highlord_fox@reddit
You need to frame it to be something they do understand. Ask them if they know the difference between a surgeon and a veterinarian. If they say yes, then ask them if they think a brain surgeon job offer from the local hospital would be appropriate for a vet to accept.
If they say no, go "But they're both medical professionals!" That sort of makes people think and maybe get it a little bit, that you're a "Horse Computer Doctor" and not a "People Computer Doctor".
At least that's what I do, I tend to make medical professional comparisons and about half the time people understand a little better.
Langager90@reddit
A pilot could theoretically work in a scrapyard for recycling old planes, but that'd be a waste of skills and experience.
Likewise, you wouldn't try to force a motorcycle mechanic to work on heavy construction machinery.
phyrros@reddit
The last one i don't understand? Yes, he/she would probably have to weld more and there are few Diesel motorcycles, but otherwise?
soberdude@reddit
They're very different, this is actually a decent example.
SeanBZA@reddit
Or to put it more personal to them ask if they would go to their local veterinary service to have them do cosmetic surgery on them, after all they are both doctors, and both have scalpels and sutures, and might even have anesthetic available.
Gronkwork@reddit
need your nails done? hmm those are like hooves... lemmie get the grinder and pick!
dRaidon@reddit
You know, I have tried that before. And that's how I got sent job openings on the equivalent of horse breeders.
The stupidest fucks work in unemployment offices.
TotallyRealDev@reddit
I would use something a bit more closer to situation at hand. A librarian working at a paper recycling facility comes to mind
Tathas@reddit
Ask HR if they also do recruiting/intake to the mortuary.
pockypimp@reddit
I had to deal with California's Unemployment system years ago. At least their system is you have to show you applied for 5 or 10 jobs a week to keep benefits. It's only for 3 months though unless you have dependents then it's a whopping 6 months.
So I'd go to the usual recruiting sites and apply online. I could tell I was applying to the same job on different sites sometimes.
dustojnikhummer@reddit
You could just apply and then not get accepted for lack of knowledge on Window.
Or you could start learning Windows as well. You would be surprised how many companies would give Linux a shot but don't have anyone with the skills so they are Windows only.
Maleficent_Pop9398@reddit
Yeah… I’ve never heard of someone turning down work because it’s not their specialty. Use the money to pay for training on your application/platform of choice. Having Windows experience will only help you when potential clients and employers need to migrate to/from Linux.
TychaBrahe@reddit
I have a friend in IT who is an expert in all kinds of things. She knows Max and Windows and networks and databases. She's fabulous.
She went back to school in her 50s to get her masters in geology. When she submitted her proposal for her thesis, her professor told her that honestly, it wasn't really masters level work. She needed to scale things back and save the in-depth stuff for her PhD.
She was applying for jobs and internships for her summers, and she kept applying at geology labs and projects and kept getting told that they would really like her to work in their IT departments.
She knows how to do that work. She would do it well. It wouldn't be paid as well as it would if she went back to IT in the private sector. But the purpose of her doing a summer job/internship is to learn and to work with other scientists . It's supposed to be an educational process. Which it isn't going to be if she's doing IT instead of geology.
Maleficent_Pop9398@reddit
I completely understand. I’ve been trying to get out of the software I support for the past six years, but I have kids to feed and it’s hard to turn down a guaranteed contract no matter how many courses I register for and leads for transitional roles I apply to.
That said, I think your friend would be best served to work in IT in the geology industry, then volunteer to help on the projects that are directly focused on what she wants to do long-term. Same goes for OP.
glenmarshall@reddit
Ask them what the difference is between a physician and a mortician.
TheBoysNotQuiteRight@reddit
Or a surgeon and a veterinary surgeon
Cjdamron75@reddit
I've been saying this for years. They put people in HR to hire for positions the don't and won't ever know about. Would you put me on a hiring panel or resume eval panel for a heart surgeon (Windows Admin here) - hell no! I don't know the first thing about it. At least have someone in IT to vet resumes.
vaildin@reddit
I dunno. I think destroying computers for a living would be a really rewarding career.
markus_b@reddit
You do that wrong. You send your CV and/or go to the interview and have the companies reject you, not the other way around.
Just_Maintenance@reddit
I didn't understand why working for something that isn't your specialty would negatively affect your career path. Could you explain it again please?
Even if you don't even know how to say "Windows," as long as you made it clear on the interview you are on the clear. Worst case scenario you get some free training.
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
I got a bit paranoid because as I explained above, I still get calls for doing embedded software development because the first version of my resume that ever went online mentioned I did Arduino projects. I wanna avoid being nagged about Windows Server administration when I'm trying to be a Linux specialist, if that makes more sense.
To be clear I'm not opposed to hybrid working environments, I just need a significant part of Linux in a given job, so as to be able to leverage the experience to further my career
This is less an interview problem and more one that concerns either the unemployment office, or the company headhunters whose LinkedIn scrapers couldn't give less of a shit about what's actually written on my resume
TinyNiceWolf@reddit
I'm so glad that my tax dollars are helping you to avoid the awful experience of getting unwanted calls from people looking to hire you for jobs you don't want to do.
The terrible burden of repeatedly answering the phone and saying "no thank you" is something no one should have to endure.
So it makes perfect sense that you turn down jobs you could do, but prefer not to do, and live on tax dollars instead, since the alternative could well lead to having to answer the phone.
TychaBrahe@reddit
Most surgeons know how to wash dishes.
It's not an effective use of their time professionally.
My degree is in telecommunications management, which is about setting up networks. I'm no longer qualified for it, because I got my degree in 2001 and I've been doing other things since then. But shortly after I graduated I was applying for jobs and I listed my copious computer skills, and someone offered me a job as an office manager. I think some automatic algorithm selected me because my resume included both "telecommunications management" and "MS Office."
(When I say I'm "good" at MS Office, I mean I have 30 years' experience at VBA programming. Also, I have no ability to manage people. I would be a terrible office manager.)
TinyNiceWolf@reddit
Sure, but that's not a great analogy, since OP is happy to do Windows system administration as long as it's part of a job that also includes Linux system administration.
So it's more like a chef who refuses to take a job at a vegan restaurant because, while he could cook all the dishes on the menu, he likes cooking meat too. And then insists to the unemployment office that he's unable to find a job.
Nope, he found a job he could do, he just prefers not to do it. You're not supposed to get unemployment if all the jobs on offer are ones you simply prefer not to do.
TychaBrahe@reddit
More like a chef who wants to make a name for themselves as a vegan chef. Yes, they can cook meat. Yes, this Brazilian barbecue place serves a grilled cauliflower steak. But if they take that job, they then have a steakhouse on their resume. It's going to be that much harder to get hired at The Garden of Eating, a 100% vegan restaurant. Even working at A Fungus Among Us, where the food is about 50% vegetarian, 30% vegan, and 20% omnivore better showcases their skills as a veg*n chef.
grmthmpsn43@reddit
As someone going though this (in a different field) you have my sympathies. I had to explain to someone recently that "laboratory technician" is a different role than "analytical scientist" and that just because they both work in a lab does not mean they are equal.
corporate_treadmill@reddit
Oh no.
Just_Maintenance@reddit
I think I understand now. You are mixing two things which makes your point a bit harder to understand
From a career perspective, I don't think it matters at all if a Linux specialist worked on a Windows office. Work if work after all, you just took what was available and came out the other side more flexible and with a wider skillset. It definitely wont detract when a Linux office is interviewing you.
Still, I think it's fine to demand a higher pay to work on something you don't like. Maybe next time tell the unemployment office that working with Windows is more expensive, so you demand a higher salary and that's why you are rejecting the offers.
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
It's more along the lines of me not wanting to work exclusively with Windows. Like I said above I'm OK with hybrid environments
Tyreaus@reddit
I can see the "working in a Windows office" possibly mattering if it detracts enough from Linux experience. Say, working 10 years on Linux versus working 5 on Linux and 5 on Windows.
In OP's case, though, it's not "100 on Linux or 50/50 Linux+Windows", it's "50/50 Linux+unemployment and 50/50 Linux+Windows".
Responsible-End7361@reddit
If someone specializes in car repair of foreign cars going to work for a Ford dealership would rapidly degrade their high value skills with foreign cars and replace those skills with much lower value Ford rapair skills. He wants to work at the computer equivalent of a place that services Mercedes.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
Flexibility is also a valuable attribute, though. I've worked on everything from PCs to mainframes, operating systems from MS-DOS 2.0 to MVS to Windows 11, languages from Fortran, Cobol & RPG to Assembler (4 different architectures) to C, C++, Java & Python to VB (6 and .Net), C# and VBA in PowerPoint and Excel, and close to a dozen different database systems.
It may not pay as well as being the deep subject matter expert in some area, but it's also more secure - it's tough to get rid of the Windows/Linux/web/database/ programmer/sysadmin guy when you'll need to hire multiple people to replace him. And I've had a lot of fun learning new things along the way.
Roticap@reddit
You're glossing over a big issue here. One that OP literally mentions as being the cause of leaving their last job. Being a generalist who isn't specialized into any one spot also makes it harder to get hired later as you get more years of experience.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
But was it really not being paid enough, or not being paid enough to deal with burnout?
My first job was a series of death-march projects; the very first one was 40 hours the first week, 80 the second and then 34 weeks in a row of 120+ hour weeks; it was literally work, sleep and do the bare minimum to survive beyond that. We got the project done on time, but at a cost of 2 heart attacks (one fatal) and 3 divorces - thankfully none of that mine.
I was truly young and stupid back then, but I loved the overtime pay. I left after 3 years of those types of projects because it just got to the point where they couldn't pay me enough to keep dealing with it.
Over the 46 years I was in IT, I had no problem getting hired - even at age 62. It probably helped a lot that all of that experience was in one industry, though.
Roticap@reddit
This is a form of specialization. Direct experience in the full customer need -> revenue pipeline (along with everything needed to support it) is quite valuable and your decisions in your current role will be better because you understand their impact on other roles.
Also, staying in the same industry for many years (while doing quality work) you tend to build up a network of people that helps find the next position with much less effort or having to market yourself
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
The former. Turns out I was paid about 40% below industry standards. The burnout is a consequence thereof but this isn't the only cause
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
Exactly. We here tend to value specialization at higher levels
Geminii27@reddit
It's more like being forced into a job where they play piano on cruise ships. "It's a transport-related job, isn't it?"
code_monkey_001@reddit
Thats_not_how_that_works_thats_not_how_any_of_this_works.png
30porn87@reddit
Windows aggravates my depression. Fuck Windows.
Comfortable-Web9455@reddit
Just apply for the job. You will fail to even get an interview because you lack the skills. I had this situation once. Because they insisted, I applied for a job as a junior C++ programmer even though I was Windows tech support and didn't know any C++. Surprise - no interview.
Keeps them happy so you can actually look for a job yourself. You'll never get skilled IT work from a job center.
gen3starwind@reddit
lol I work in information security. I keep getting sent job postings for unarmed security guard positions. While I’ve been described as a mall cop because I oversaw my former company’s phishing program, I’m not that kind of security!
octodude0101@reddit
System Z low level assembler experience.
I get crap from assembling pallets to assembling Ikea.
visibleunderwater_-1@reddit
I'm even more specialized. I also do ISSEC, I've been doing 800-171 as a cleared contractor for 5+ years now. Moving to a company that isn't requiring clearance would also be not good for my career path like the OP. It took quite a bit of effort to get to the point I'm at; and I think it cost my current company around $3k, and took about 4-6 months. It took much more from me personally to get everything "cleaned up" (credit report, cleaning everything off my "record", etc). I wouldn't take a helpdesk job, or even a low-level sysadmin job as both would be moving backwards. I can work with GPOs in my sleep, I write quite a bit of powershell to audit our infrastructure, so I could be just a sysadmin...
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
This is the part where I realize that writing at nearly 1AM isn't the best idea and I forgot one crucial piece of lore: The last Windows Server version I interacted with was 2012. I likely cannot use anything past 2016 without a refreshing course. Also a large part of why I just don't apply for WServer based jobs out of the blue
UNAHTMU@reddit
Nothing has changed much other than how the GUI looks, but Windows is a nightmare of problems so I can't blame you. I am the DevOps SRE where I work and the Linux Servers just do their thing without much intervention. The Windows servers are always throwing out alerts because of software updates and patches. Sadly the majority of our org is using Windows Server. I'm a Windows guy because that is what always fell into my lap, but I'm not shy to fix Linux problems. It is the Agile mindset.
AlexG2490@reddit
The Windows architecture absolutely has not changed enough for this to be a relevant consideration.
GeneTech734@reddit
It hasn't changed that much my man
robjeffrey@reddit
If you are offered a position then they don't consider that a negative.
Therealschroom@reddit
yeah I had a similar experience as well. a lot of placers simply have no idea what IT is and how the field works. for them a secretary using word to write a letter is equal to a cisco certificated network admin. I basically had to find a job myself that was "ok" before I lost my benefits and could then take a couple of months while grinding to find a job I want on my own.
Steeljaw72@reddit
If all your job options are for windows, maybe it’s time to shift over to a windows career path.
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
I think there's a bit of a confusion about how I brought this up in the original post, so here's an attempt at clearing it:
The unemployment office automatically forwards postings that it "thinks" I'd be a good fit for, based on content, tags, and a whole bunch of stuff. It's those offers that I need to decline with a good cause.
The bot (for lack of a better word - I'm fairly sure this isn't an AI yet) isn't and probably cannot be made specialized enough to care about things like specialization. If I were, say, a network tech, it would still push offers to be a COBOL developer to me because all it's really programmed to see is computer terms.
But the problem here isn't even the bot, it's the humans acting like every computer nerd out there is largely interchangeable. The $Company1 job I can sorta understand, it's still system administration, just a version thereof I don't feel capable of performing to a satisfactory degree in a professional environment. The $Company2 posting however, I have no idea.
One additional parameter that I deemed to be not relevant to the story is that the unemployment office isn't the only source of jobs (LinkedIn for example), and I do have interviews for a bunch of Linux centric jobs lined up. But since they are outside the unemployment office's system, they "don't count" for the purpose of the two strikes.
geon@reddit
You are a techie. You even know some C programming. You’ll figure it out.
coolalee_@reddit
You’re a sysadmin. Does it push cobol jobs to you?
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
Hasn't yet on this run, but before my last job (so four years ago) yeah it did push dev jobs to me. Mostly that in fact.
muusandskwirrel@reddit
Right…
How dare you work windows while hunting for a Linux job!!
Because “working where there was work” looks….. worse?… than being unemployed on your resume?…
GeneTech734@reddit
I wonder why this guy got fired....
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
Funny thing is I didn't. I asked and got a conventional termination.
Cakeriel@reddit
But were they sad to see you leave?
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
The on-site users threw me a sendoff party, from which the board of directors were strangely absent, so make of that what you will
GeneTech734@reddit
r/missingthepoint
wireswires@reddit
You sound like you think it is the unemployment centers job to further your career path. Its not, their job is to get you off unemployment. Its your job to further your career path.
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
Which I try to do by not applying to jobs where I'm literally not the guy they're looking for !
I get what people are saying about not leaving gaps in my resume and all, but for starters, 3 months isn't an immense gap (not here at least), especially two of them being the summer months where everybody is on vacation, but I'm also not trying to just plug holes and change jobs every three months whenever there is a new opportunity on the block.
rhuneai@reddit
So, due to not getting paid as much as you wanted, you chose to make zero money (by leaving) and hoped for welfare while you are very picky about the exact tech you want to work with? Sounds a bit choosey-beggy to me. I would say the recycling centre job was quite different but damn, surely any job is better than no job? You can look for work while you have a job.
My brother worked out quickly that lining up the replacement job should come before you quit the current job.
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
It was that or the third burn out in a year. I don't regret my choice.
Wilder831@reddit
Third burnout in a year!? It sounds to me like maybe you should consider a career change. Maybe that recycling job could be a blessing in disguise. You couldn’t have been lining up the replacement job after the first burnout? Isn’t that how a “burnout” works? You don’t burnout 3 times in a year… you burned out once and did nothing about it so you stayed burnt
Super_Bad_64@reddit (OP)
I had the lottery winning combo: bad pay, bad users, long commutes, working essentially alone (my "backup" was the IT director so even taking paid leave required some coordination)
Frankly yeah that's probably what happened, I stubbornly tried to pull through and ended up in a bad spot. The way I was being treated, with constantly increasing workload and diminishing pay, only added fuel to the fire
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
As a Linux admin and programmer who recently took a job as my team's Active Directory SME because that was the first offer I got after getting laid off from my previous role...
On the one hand, yeah, I get it. I'd much rather be building Unix systems than wrangling AD. Windows sucks to administer, even with PowerShell being an option nowadays.
On the other hand, I really don't have much of a recommendation other than to suck it up and take what's available like the rest of us.
zeus204013@reddit
Well, in my country you have to accept something, because almost everyone pays low wages...
Career path? Maybe in Capital city, because is very crappy outside. A wild jungle if job offers.
doctorevil30564@reddit
Not to be negative, I get that you are a Linux Admin and I am not. I am a much better Linux System Admin than a Windows system admin, but I worked a job for over 10 years where I couldn't specialize as either, and I have about the same amount documentable experience for either. A recent job was 90% Linux but we still had to support a few windows systems due to there being not fully usable Linux software for what they needed to do in that department.
I worked in a managed hosting data center for those 10 years so I also picked up a good bit of Networking Admin experience so I was able to land a network Administrator position for my current role. Sorry if I am rambling, but you really shouldn't pigeon hole yourself into one role. You don't have to focus on being windows centric on your resume when listing new jobs on your resume, just continue to focus on the Linux skills and projects you implement at these jobs. I can administer an active directory environment, no problem. But I really shine at doing projects where I can build out and manage Linux systems to replace Windows servers and save the company money on licensing costs. I am currently utilizing my knowledge about ProxMox to migrate VMs running on an aging VMware Vsphere cluster over to a new ProxMox Cluster so we don't have to pay Broadcom the higher license fee to keep being supported by them.
ChooseExactUsername@reddit
Confused Canadian. My Mom thinks "Windows need Windex."
Isn't Linux like Windex?
(Sorry, I had too make an obligatory joke. Yes, they are different like M$ SQL and MYSQL, and Oracle SQL. I've been doing 'puter stuff since the early 80s and would dread having to explain BGP is different than VMWare to $drone)
WilNotJr@reddit
Most people would take $Company1 job, learn some new skills while polishing resume and looking for the job we actually want. OP seems supremely stubborn and is probably extremely difficult to work with.
staryoshi06@reddit
While I personally think welfare mutual obligations are ridiculous, from the perspective of welfare being to fill the gap between jobs they are 100% correct about Company1. You can’t be picky.
robjeffrey@reddit
I don't think this post puts you in a positive light.
The way you've presented this I don't think will bring you the commiserations you were looking for.
Jonny_vdv@reddit
You know what's worse for your career path than having to take an OK job using an OS you don't prefer? Gaps in employment. The unemployment "drone" and manager were correct, you ARE just being difficult for the sake of it.