Natural gas reserve tank?
Posted by axioner@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 29 comments
Hey all,
New to this sub but had an idea, wondering if it's even feasible. I currently have natural gas supplied to my house. However I have had service disruptions before if someone accidentally digs up a line or other reasons. What I would like is something similar to those large propane tanks for houses off grid, but to ha e it plumbed in between the meter and the house itself with a check valve to prevent back flow if service does get cut off. Is this even a thing? I suppose I would need a way to pressurize the tank during a disruption, because NG sits around 3-5psi and would loose that pressure very quickly without pressure from the supplier... but that assumes this type of system is even a thing?
b50776@reddit
Propane is more energy dense anyways. I'd have propane orifices for all appliances so you can change out whenever needed and run propane as backup. As far as heat, we switched to pellet stoves in the house Primarily. The propane central heat is still in place. Keeping one of the pellet stoves on low is usually good enough for the high 60sF low 70sF indoor temp. You buy pellets ahead of time when they're cheap, much like propane. You know you're already set for the year, regardless of what happens. We go through about 4 pallets- $225/pallet. There is almost always plenty left over.
YardFudge@reddit
NG is rather different that LPG
You can store lots of gas as a liquid… but very little as a gas
Also…. Why don’t you see that idea anywhere?
axioner@reddit (OP)
No idea, that's why I figured I'd ask! Never considered that NG couldn't condense down similar to propane though, that makes sense.
West7780@reddit
It can and it does. It's just very difficult and expensive to do.
allnutznodik@reddit
Methane bio digester, methane bladders for said methane bio digester.
The israelíes made a really cool version for $800. I have two bladders in storage at any one time.
axioner@reddit (OP)
Ive seen those, look cool.... but can they survive Canadian winters?
allnutznodik@reddit
They actually make solar blankets for that! But yes some precautions are required for extreme climates on both ends of the spectrum. I’m not fully vested in the knowledge of either climates since I live smack dab in the middle
Oilspillsaregood1@reddit
Having a tank filled by a truck would be the economical option without getting real fancy with natural gas compressors and such
axioner@reddit (OP)
Yeah the whole idea was to have a reserve supplied by the existing gas line, something that I didn't have to think about really and if supply got cut off in the middle of a winter night my furnace wouldn't run out of fuel.
Oilspillsaregood1@reddit
Once you get your talk filled maintenance would be a lot lower than trying to pressurize your own, and there would be a lot less maintenance, parts, and failure points
bajajoaquin@reddit
I have NG and my solution is to ignore it for preps. If it still works, that’s great. But I have propane and wood for my backup cooking needs. My bar is pretty low, though. I’m trying to make sure my family has staples and will survive, not trying to maintain all previous comforts. So my solution may not work for others.
axioner@reddit (OP)
Fair enough, I'm not thinking of this as an end of civilization prep, more of a week long service disruption prep. Aside from electric space heaters we don't have other heat sources, and the added insurance and infrastructure id have to get to add wood heat is prohibitive in cost.
bajajoaquin@reddit
Yeah. That’s the other thing. I’m in Southern California so heating isn’t a major concern.
Psychological_Web687@reddit
Better off getting propane as a backup, you will need different regulators and jets but it can be done.
GSDFrieden@reddit
Yeah… you’re gonna wanna become a Hank Hill acolyte and go with pro-pane
Aggravating-Put-4818@reddit
Worked in nat gas industry for decades, it’s not a thing
axioner@reddit (OP)
Yeah that's what I'm hearing, sounds like learning to re fit for propane and having a propane back up would be the most viable option, though not what I was aiming for.
CanucknNevads@reddit
Couple things first of all when dealing with most home pressure for NG your talking inches of water column, not PSI there is 28 inches of water column in 1 psi. Your furnace or water heater normally runs on 4-7 inches of water Column in the industry we call this 1/2 psi gas or low pressure gas. Typically before your gas meter the gas supplier will have a regulator the incoming side of that regulator might have 20-150psi of gas pressure that it will reduce down to 7 inches.
When we discuss propane typically we’re looking at 10-14 inches of Water column for operating pressure but it also has a much smaller orifice sizes. I can convert most furnaces from Propane to NG in about 15 minutes but it also depends on the furnace. If for example you have a mobile home with a standing pilot always lit you may have to change the pilot assembly as well as the orifice.
Honestly if I wanted a back up system I would get the conversion kit to swap to propane then practice the process a few times, you may need a manometer to properly adjust the gas valve.
axioner@reddit (OP)
Hmm.... well, clearly, there is more to it than I thought! I've never heard of the water column measurement. Then again, I'm not a gas fitter or anywhere near that industry work wise. Sounds like having a propane reserve and switching might be simpler than a gas reserve. Though the gas already being plumbed into the house was the big selling point there.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Home LNG compressors are a thing mostly used to fill LNG vehicles at home they are rated to fill to good pressures. We use bigger ones at datacenters. The truck LNG just like propane so easier and cheaper to just having it topped up from them.
Now your local company may well not like simple check valves to easy to fail and people outside plant workers in danger. Think the transfer valves are a belt and suspenders a basic valve on each system and a 3 way into your house.
So you have an outage when you switch over.
AdviseGiver@reddit
You can achieve the same thing much more efficiently with solar and storage unless you live in the arctic circle or something.
HazMatsMan@reddit
Yes, it can be done, but you would need a natural gas compressor and tank. The cost is probably not going to be worth it, AND your gas company will probably poo poo the idea.
A more economical solution would be to keep the necessary supplies around to change the regulators in your home over to propane. Some appliances can also be switched between natural gas and propane. You would also need a spot piped into the house where you can connect a propane tank. The gas utility will likely not approve of this. One way to do it would be to plumb in a natural gas/LP generator and ask the installer to plumb in a T and a shutoff to connect an external LP tank.
AdviseGiver@reddit
Home CNG compressors were a thing starting in the late 2000s for CNG powered cars. My recollection is that they required a ton of electricity to compress a single tank of CNG.
DeafHeretic@reddit
Consider dual fuel (NG & Propane) appliances and/or switching out the jets in appliances from NG to propane. Then get a propane tank and have the plumbing for the gas modified to allow you to switch between NG & propane.
Or, just go to propane altogether.
bigbruce85@reddit
Idk whether or not it is a thing. But I do know that you would need to pressurize the natural gas so you could store a meaningful amount of it. Even a large tank at 5 psi isn’t many cubic feet of gas.
chasonreddit@reddit
This was my first thought. CNG gas for buses and vehicles is about 2,400 psi. So you need to compress it or have a hellova tank.
IdaDuck@reddit
Plus natural gas is less energy dense than propane.
1millerce1@reddit
There were CNG cars on the road and they had CNG compressors for home use. You might find tanks that were used on buses too.
EffinBob@reddit
I don't know how you'd pressurize it. Really, though, what's stopping you from just buying the tank and having somebody fill it? Probably just be a matter of turning one valve off and another on when you need to.