This is currently under construction at Boeing, funded by NASA. They are replacing the center section of the fuselage, and replacing the low wing with a longer, thinner high wing with trusses and folding wing tips. They are also using new engines. The goal is to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.
MBAs fuck up currently existing products and systems. There isn't a lot of comparison for them to "optimize" when the thing you are making is a brand new thing, or a one shot thing. It's when they can look into assembly lines that it all goes to shit.
Yeah MBAs famously hate skunk works, which is what that sounds like at Boeing. Its an endless blackhole of money with very little initial gains from it, and its almost completely autonomous. Lockheed famously created the F-80 Shooting Star from scratch all with 28 engineers in 143 days. Of course this was all back when Engineers were in charge of aircraft manufacturers.
That was a way different time before we had any established engineering on jet technology. They just had to design an airframe that could accommodate a jet engine and make it fly. Also they didn’t care about safety. Just put a pilot in there whether they kill him or not.
Now it’s like, you have to make a jet but also you need to make the fuel run through the coolant and hydraulic lines to save from having 3 kinds of fluid in the plane. And like a thousand other requirements to optimize the performance.
Eh.... "get this done... but also we're concerned about budget so everything has to be run through this process where you get an ID number from this middle manager, fill out an excel document with justification, submit it and then sometime in the next 2 weeks a group of uppermanagement at a combined person-hour cost of 1million plus annual salary who barely know anything about any of it will approve it. Then a po will get issued in another week. Oh you needed that now, not a month+ from now? That's not our process.
Boeing at top has 3 major divisions, Boeing Commercial, Boeing Defense & Space, and Boeing Global Services (aftermarket and services)
This would be Boeing defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Defense,Space%26_Security
Boeing defense also has its share of successes and failures.
The T-7 trainer was a major win and will feed the company for years to come. But it is currently years delayed in development and over budget.
The K-46 tanker had a problematic process in acquirement. Then it turned out to have issues with workers leaving tools inside, the basic concept had a virtual flying boom (refueling) screen instead of a simple aft window, which caused lots of issues and so on. Boeing seems to be past the worst of it now...
Are you ignorant or stupid? Its a joint development between NASA and Boeing (with a few minor others). Contract for 425 million has already been signed. Its been worked on for over a year. Its going to happen 2028/2029 timeframe.
To be fair the X-57 Maxwell got cancelled very far into its program. I think the prototype was all but completed when they decided its problems were unfixable.
Ehh. Personally ( my experience is being really into planes + one year of aircraft maintenance school, so take everything with grain of salt) evolutions in structure is a lot easier to do in comparison to propulsion. X-57 failed because propulsion technology was not there. For this project the structural/ material science is there. It’s just a matter of seeing what the unknown unknowns are and how things turn out.
Yeah I could have been less of a dick to. I just want to say that it’s an actual project and not a “quick open blender we need to distract the masses” project.
As an aerospace engineer the theory behind truss wings is sound and allows for higher aspect ratio (fuel economy) without a massive structural weight penalty. I do not believe truss wing concepts (particularly those funded by nasa) are just marketing gimmicks.
Somebody or an AI should draw an airplane that has 1 huge jet engine where the fuselage is in a standard twin jet, and have 2 smaller passenger compartments under the wings...
Within the next 5-10 years if the tests prove successful, this might be Boeing's future 797 plane which according to the Wikipedia article could seat between 130-210 passengers which could come close to replacing the 757-200's 239 passenger capacity if Boeing chooses to extend the fuselage.
So some airlines like united already have to think of replacements for 757-300 etc - and the best they can think of is Airbus 321/321 XLR and MAX 9 / Max 10 - as they may not be able to wait for the NMA.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/united-plots-757-replacements-with-boeings-nma-off-the-table/151337.article
jar1967@reddit
It looks more like the return of the biplane
CrazyAstronomer2@reddit
Only one main wing
UpfrontMoviesPodcast@reddit
AVRO!!!!!!!!!!!
jamcultur@reddit (OP)
This is currently under construction at Boeing, funded by NASA. They are replacing the center section of the fuselage, and replacing the low wing with a longer, thinner high wing with trusses and folding wing tips. They are also using new engines. The goal is to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-66
kegman83@reddit
Ruh roh.
Usul_Atreides@reddit
That part of Boeing is pretty solid.
kegman83@reddit
God I hope so.
Aezon22@reddit
MBAs fuck up currently existing products and systems. There isn't a lot of comparison for them to "optimize" when the thing you are making is a brand new thing, or a one shot thing. It's when they can look into assembly lines that it all goes to shit.
kegman83@reddit
Yeah MBAs famously hate skunk works, which is what that sounds like at Boeing. Its an endless blackhole of money with very little initial gains from it, and its almost completely autonomous. Lockheed famously created the F-80 Shooting Star from scratch all with 28 engineers in 143 days. Of course this was all back when Engineers were in charge of aircraft manufacturers.
Boomerang503@reddit
And yet, Boeing has the Phantom Works
snappy033@reddit
That was a way different time before we had any established engineering on jet technology. They just had to design an airframe that could accommodate a jet engine and make it fly. Also they didn’t care about safety. Just put a pilot in there whether they kill him or not.
Now it’s like, you have to make a jet but also you need to make the fuel run through the coolant and hydraulic lines to save from having 3 kinds of fluid in the plane. And like a thousand other requirements to optimize the performance.
MovingInStereoscope@reddit
Also being headed by Kelly Johnson was a big part of it. The man was a savant when it came to aircraft design.
theholyraptor@reddit
Eh.... "get this done... but also we're concerned about budget so everything has to be run through this process where you get an ID number from this middle manager, fill out an excel document with justification, submit it and then sometime in the next 2 weeks a group of uppermanagement at a combined person-hour cost of 1million plus annual salary who barely know anything about any of it will approve it. Then a po will get issued in another week. Oh you needed that now, not a month+ from now? That's not our process.
Usul_Atreides@reddit
It’s practically a different company than the production of airliners.
Phonixrmf@reddit
What part is that? The experimental/non-commercial part of Boeing?
barath_s@reddit
Boeing at top has 3 major divisions, Boeing Commercial, Boeing Defense & Space, and Boeing Global Services (aftermarket and services) This would be Boeing defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Defense,Space%26_Security
Boeing defense also has its share of successes and failures.
The T-7 trainer was a major win and will feed the company for years to come. But it is currently years delayed in development and over budget.
The K-46 tanker had a problematic process in acquirement. Then it turned out to have issues with workers leaving tools inside, the basic concept had a virtual flying boom (refueling) screen instead of a simple aft window, which caused lots of issues and so on. Boeing seems to be past the worst of it now...
tsilubmanmos@reddit
the lower 'strut' is there to catch passengers falling out during flight
FuturePastNow@reddit
four wings doubles the chances of one falling off
DayFrosty@reddit
If an engine falls off, looks as though it would take out the lower wing, aileron, lower slat and flap.
Sandro_24@reddit
It's also half as bad if one falls off, seems like a solid plan.
DC123454321@reddit
🤣🤣🤣
jacksmachiningreveng@reddit
I wonder what the originator of these studies would be referred to as...
turbodude69@reddit
and a vastly improved view for the passengers! if im flying economy, i always sit near or in the exit row, i always have a terrible view.
Kdj2j2@reddit
Clickbait look over here like the Boom Ovation. It’ll never happen and is just for “Look over here while my engineering dept. withers and dies.”
Unlucky-Regular3165@reddit
Are you ignorant or stupid? Its a joint development between NASA and Boeing (with a few minor others). Contract for 425 million has already been signed. Its been worked on for over a year. Its going to happen 2028/2029 timeframe.
Kytescall@reddit
To be fair the X-57 Maxwell got cancelled very far into its program. I think the prototype was all but completed when they decided its problems were unfixable.
Unlucky-Regular3165@reddit
Ehh. Personally ( my experience is being really into planes + one year of aircraft maintenance school, so take everything with grain of salt) evolutions in structure is a lot easier to do in comparison to propulsion. X-57 failed because propulsion technology was not there. For this project the structural/ material science is there. It’s just a matter of seeing what the unknown unknowns are and how things turn out.
Kdj2j2@reddit
I’m just a cynic. A new presser about this just seems to pop up right after every Boeing mishap.
Unlucky-Regular3165@reddit
Yeah I could have been less of a dick to. I just want to say that it’s an actual project and not a “quick open blender we need to distract the masses” project.
Kdj2j2@reddit
Fair.
StealYoChromies@reddit
As an aerospace engineer the theory behind truss wings is sound and allows for higher aspect ratio (fuel economy) without a massive structural weight penalty. I do not believe truss wing concepts (particularly those funded by nasa) are just marketing gimmicks.
francis2559@reddit
Imagine how big those bypasses can get on the engines now!
Tree_Shrapnel@reddit
We can finally get engine diameters bigger than the body of the plane
pdf27@reddit
CFM RISE engine is \~4m diameter, standard narrowbody diameter which it's aimed at is 3.8-4m. We're getting close.
Ok-Feed7905@reddit
Somebody or an AI should draw an airplane that has 1 huge jet engine where the fuselage is in a standard twin jet, and have 2 smaller passenger compartments under the wings...
barath_s@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan#Twenty-first_century
Parent is referencing the likely next transformation in engines - propfan/open fan engines like CFM RISE
https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/rise/
francis2559@reddit
GE: makes jet turbines
GE: makes windmills
Listen, a boy can dream
fygar22@reddit
Within the next 5-10 years if the tests prove successful, this might be Boeing's future 797 plane which according to the Wikipedia article could seat between 130-210 passengers which could come close to replacing the 757-200's 239 passenger capacity if Boeing chooses to extend the fuselage.
barath_s@reddit
Wiki also references Boeing's 2022 decision : NMA / 797 is on hold until they figure out the next gen of engines - typically propfan / leap rise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_New_Midsize_Airplane
So some airlines like united already have to think of replacements for 757-300 etc - and the best they can think of is Airbus 321/321 XLR and MAX 9 / Max 10 - as they may not be able to wait for the NMA. https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/united-plots-757-replacements-with-boeings-nma-off-the-table/151337.article
BuckarooBanzye@reddit
Now imagine it with open rotor propfans!
DietrichPHC@reddit
Cool idea, hopefully Boeing isn't around long enough to get it off the drawing board
Intelligent_League_1@reddit
Ignorant
Sandro_24@reddit
Good on you for noticing that actual arguments won't work for this person so you just throw one very fitting word at them.
Clickclickdoh@reddit
I like how every image has a different cockpit section
Mun0425@reddit
And how the first one has the 727 cockpit, they should totally keep using that design
YU_AKI@reddit
That's the MD-90 cockpit
Spin737@reddit
MD tail, too.
pdf27@reddit
It's a retrofitted MD-90 (originally delivered to China Northern in 1999) with an new wing and engines.
Mun0425@reddit
Oops
WhiskeyMikeMike@reddit
that’s a maddog cockpit. The first image is the closest to what it will look like most likely.
stealthy_vulture@reddit
Looks like they try to minimize root chord, to reduce Re, to promote laminar flow.
blackbeansandrice@reddit
Who needs doors when you have wing struts, I guess.
meeware@reddit
Intrigued to see how the interface drag where the struts and wings meet is handled.
Dangerous-Salad-bowl@reddit
My thoughts too.
Iceblade_Aorus@reddit
the return of MADDOG
wrongwayup@reddit
This is sort of rule 2 stuff for me. I know they’re building it, the original MD has been delivered to Boeing, but it’s still just a rendering
-Fedaykin-@reddit
That's going to have a pretty narrow landing gear footprint.. I expect it may need outriggers of some type.
Vector_One@reddit
Gives the passengers sucked out of the fuselage a second chance to hang on...
LeatherRole2297@reddit
Think of all the fuel trucks, baggage carts, catering trucks, and mechanics that’ll drive into that wing strut. 🤦♂️
PhazonZim@reddit
That is indeed quite weird! Have an upvote
CaptValentine@reddit
EYEBROW WINDOWS
^(eyebrow windows)
DonTaddeo@reddit
Seems an advanced form of Hurel-Dubois concepts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurel-Dubois_HD.31
jacksmachiningreveng@reddit
The French copy no one and no one copies the Fr... wait a minute!
Deer-in-Motion@reddit
I should go fly the BAe-146 in MSFS...
badpuffthaikitty@reddit
I flew into and out of London City Airport in a 146. The only better flight was island hopping in a Beaver.
OldWrangler9033@reddit
I wonder if the idea will take off once it gets through the testing phase.
Typicaldrugdealer@reddit
Yessss it's evolving into a glider
the_spinetingler@reddit
I like it. I've always liked high wing aircraft