Just a question. Are manuals a big thing in the US? I live in Asia and manuals are more common here. I drive an automatic these days, but I started out driving in manual and still do from time to time
Regardless of whether it will sell well, we as Americans should scream for more choices and cheaper vehicles.
I really don't care if it only sells 5000 units. If they can make cheaper vehicles, great! I know that I would drool over this if it was sitting on a lot, but I'm in the minority.
I also believe the Raptor Ranger should have the option for a stick. Just give me the choice.
Ford, fuck your short term profit. You start building cheaper trucks, and you'll have a loyal customer for life.
I highly doubt that it would add more than 5000 sales a year in North America. Despite what Internet car enthusiast circles say, there isn't enough demand here for that type of vehicle.
There could be ~5000 units in fleet sales potentially, just not with the manual. Regular cab long bed Rangers would likely be the staple of American auto parts stores once again.
From 95 to 2002 the S-10 which at most had an extended cab in those years, average 200k(+50ksonoma) sales per year.
From 95 to 2002 the Ranger which didn't have a 4 door version(the sport track sold under explorer) versions averaged 300k sales per year.
The U.S. is importing large amounts of 90s Kei Trucks, to fill this need. The ford maverick had 94k sales for 2023 and already has 52k sales for 2024, and that truck only comes in 4 door.
There was a reason those parts store truck existed.
A cheap small truck will sale.
That's because the modern market has neglected this class of vehicle. The Maverick fits, and that is the reason the Kei trucks are being imported, because they also fit in this class of vehicle. the current U.S. market would easily sustain 200k sales per year. That doesn't even include the non-us markets, where they all the manufactures make this class and could easily make it in the U.S. Like Chevy Tornado, Volkswagen Amarok, Toyota Hilux Champ, Mitsubishi Triton, Dacia Logan pick-up, Isuzu D-Max, and Mazda BT-50.
Reminds me of what my friend at Subaru USA said when the Crosstrek first came out. I said it would be cool to have it with the WRX engine. “That would be so cool! And we’d sell dozens!”
>It's actually sort of weird that the CX-30 Turbo really has no competition in the U.S. outside of luxury brands.
No its not weird at all. Subaru sales about 2x as many Crosstreks as Mazda does CX-30s. And the majority of CX-30s are not going to be the turbo models. And the CX-30 Turbo starts at a price point the Crosstrek ends (which is the Wilderness, which Mazda doesn't target).
Further... Subaru did put a WRX engine into one of their crossovers. The Forester XT existed off and on a few generations. It never sold well. Its probably not worth all the additional costs or fleet CAFE numbers. All the data says Subaru is making the right decision to maximize sales and profits.
The crosstrek isn't bad with a manual, but it's a car that could really use an additional 30-40hp. Doesn't have to be fast, but the base engine Subaru tosses into a lot of their cars is anemic.
I have an outback and the 170hp CVT combo really is noticeable going up hills and stuff.
It debuted in the Ascent. Yes its in the Outback. But both of those are starting to get to the weight level where the additional power is getting more to the "need" level rather than transforming the Outback into something different.
plastic cladding that doesn't chip or rust or dent when doing outdoor activities, which is lighter than steel or aluminum and cheaper to replace if ever damaged? how horrible.
its certainly not the sexiest vehicle, but form > function for a lot of buyers. I had cladding on my 2003 Ford Explorer and it saved me so many times...
Probably a placebo effect. Crossovers look so awkward in general and lowering them gives the illusion of having suitable proportions. They almost pass as a car or hatchback.
Wranglers are awesome. And as a former Golf R owner who now owns a Gladiator... Broaden your horizons a bit. Wranglers are one of the purest vehicles left on the market.
Tried to get a forester xt back in 2017 for my wife, they were unobtainable in my area. Managed to test and loved it, but hated the color, never was able to get one in a color and spec we liked. Ended up with an Outback 3.6r touring and it’s been a great car
The XT was 10% of their sales, and over 15,000 units a year isn't exactly a rounding error. With that being said, them killing the manual because it was only 3% of sales wasn't a surprise.
That exact decision cost Subaru an invested car enthusiast on a forum. The cheaper price probably gained 10 buyers who don't care that much about power.
They're two totally different size classes, though. I would never consider an Outback because I don't need something that big, just as I didn't buy a CX-50.
Seems somewhat intentional to nudge people towards the outback.
Hang out in the FB groups and you’ll see a fair number of people who started by looking at crosstreks and ended up with an Outback or forester. We did the same thing. Started by test driving a Crosstrek wilderness, thought we didn’t want a bigger car, ended up getting an Outback wilderness. Even the 2.5 is pretty anemic compared to the 2.4t at altitude and the Outback just has some better interior details and finish than the Crosstrek.
The Crosstrek came with a stick shift up until this year. My wife's is a 5 speed. They started selling a 6 speed in 2018.
IMO after they quit offering the manual, you're better off in any other Japanese CUV in the class.
Lol it wouldn't be a competitor at all. Very few people would rush out to buy these things if they had a WRX engine. The people who buy Crosstreks couldn't give less of a shit about that.
You’re missing the point. People who buy crosstreks wouldn’t care, but a bunch of people who test drove them and then went and bought something else with more power would. My wife was set on a Crosstrek until she drove it. She bought a Q5 with a 252hp 4-cylinder instead because it was actually quick.
It takes alot more than an engine& transmission swap. The body may not be sturdy enough for that kind of power, and beefing it up would probably rob some of the precious interior space. You can bet this concept has been tried at Subaru HQ, and it just didn’t produce a compelling vehicle.
Yeah, could be that even shoehorning the 2.5NA was a packaging challenge, let alone the turbo model. Mazda had to do some re-engineering to the Skyactiv turbo engine (principally swapping the air-to-air intercooler for an air-to-liquid cooler built into the intake manifold) to get it to fit in the 3/CX-30.
Mini, for now. The Cooper Clubman is discontinued after 2024, to be replaced by... something? I think they said it will be electric, but beyond that I can't remember.
I would have immediately bought a Crosstrek WRX. It would actually sell. There isn't anything that fits in that category except for the cx-30 and Mazdas have issues with space.
I'd love a fun lifted hatch.
Im in the exact same boat. I want a small hatch with awd and enough ground clearance for the dirt roads I live on. Turns out, the cx-30 is the only thing that is in my budget that would work. Hell, I’d even take the 3.6 out of the outback in the cross trek. I need a car that can get out of its own way when necessary.
I’ve always wished for a Crosstrek WRX. I might actually buy one. But yeah, as others have said, the regular one is way too slow and CVT’s are garbage.
Pretty much the brown manual diesel wagon crowd and they don't buy new anyway since that would piss on their "I got such a sweet deal and didn't get hit with depreciation" schtick.
You just described the ranger XL. Any fleet buyer who wants a bigger bed than the 4 door ranger is 95% of the time going to want an F150 anyway so you are talking about a super niche buyer.
Even if they existed 10k units is not worth taking away high trim Ranger and Bronco Sales since the Michigan assembly plant is pretty tapped out for capacity.
The capacity point I wasn't aware of. Absolutely, as it has been the past handful of years, I could see Ford prioritizing the high profit margin vehicles first - that makes sense.
I suppose - I think back to how NAPA used to have a fleet of the old Rangers for parts runners. I can't imagine use for a small truck like that has totally evaporated, and F150s have gotten huge in comparison.
I suppose - I think back to how NAPA used to have a fleet of the old Rangers for parts runners. I can't imagine use for a small truck like that has totally evaporated, and F150s have gotten huge in comparison.
I have this weird feeling about car enthusiasts.
They want to *find* cars that are *secretly* good, and that the masses don’t know about.
Because when a car *is* made with enthusiasts in mind, it’s often overpriced, or too heavy, or too big, or has insane dealer markups, etc.
Enthusiasts are really just car snobs at the end of the day.
Because cars "made for enthusiasts" are usually over designed and miss the mark of most target buyers.
Look at the V8 wrangler for instance. They went WAY overboard trying to make it some stupid monster truck raptor fighter, rather than just dropping the 5.7 in a base wrangler like people wanted. They all sold for something idiotic like $80k+ and are just a toy for the Uber wealthy. Most people who would have bought V8 wranglers ended up just building one themselves.
See, that's why I love the CX-30 Turbo. It's literally the classic hot-rod formula - Mazda shoehorned their biggest, most powerful engine (originally designed for a 3-row crossover) into their smallest vehicle. It's a time-tested recipe for success.
Yeah... I've seen a video interview with Mazda engineer Dave Coleman about the 3/CX-30 Turbo and he was like "our small manual transmission can't handle that much torque, and our large manual transmission won't fit in the engine bay, so we'd have to re-engineer the whole drivetrain and the suits don't think it would sell enough" 😭
If that were true people wouldn’t be buying Miatas. It’s not really a secret when they’ve sold a million cars.
I can’t call anyone who super is into trucks an “enthusiast” but that consumer segment goes and buys the over the same shit over and over too - maybe to an even greater extent. I’d say there’s as many people if not a lot more people who are into cars who are “brand whores” than the people who want something genuinely unique and secretly good… if it’s secretly good then all their idiot friends won’t recognize how much money you spent!
A manual ranger is for the opposite of the modern truck buyer - it’s for someone who is actually not using their truck for work. They have to actually know how to operate the vehicle. They might actually be hauling something rather than just taking it around town and to the car wash.
Of course, a lot of these people will complain about anything and everything (as is common on the internet) but a huge number of modern “enthusiasts” with very strong opinions don’t buy new cars at all (regardless of price) so their opinion is completely irrelevant for what to bring to market. This case is a bit of an exception to me, as Ford has pushed the Lightning to an nonsensical degree… there’s a huge segment of buyers who are stuck buying used F150s that are more expensive than a new Ranger.
> I can’t call anyone who super is into trucks an “enthusiast”
Why can't you? I think there are tons of truck enthusiasts out there. They don't enjoy the same type of vehicle but that doesn't mean they aren't super into their trucks and customizing them/modding them in different ways.
I'm not a truck guy or a non truck guy. I've owned like 10 different trucks and currently don't own one and don't plan on owning one for the time being, so I feel like I am pretty neutral on trucks compared to this sub as a whole.
The majority of people who want a car use it to get from point a to b the easiest way possible. Automatic transmissions are way easier to drive so the only people that’d want the manual transmission ones would want a used one most likely to fancy it up for more personalized events. Thats few and far between clearly since if there was a market, someone would have it.
Autos got *a lot* better in practical terms when they got to 4-speeds with overdrive and lock up converters but that’s mainly from an efficiency standpoint, both fuel efficiency and turning power efficiently into acceleration. Older autos worked just fine for just getting around though before then.
A 3-speed auto is all you really *need* with a torque converter auto to make a decently driving car but even the 2-speed powerglides were OK, if not exactly good by modern expectations. I believe there were even some early automatics that were just one-speeds that just counted on the torque converter’s torque multiplication effect.
The market for new poverty spec vehicles is apparently fairly small in the US, and if I'm being cynical, it seems many people who financially should be shopping base trims instead take out ridiculous loans to buy higher trims anyways, while actually frugal people likely shop pre-owned. So that leaves a fairly small niche of new car buyers that want barebones.
>…if I'm being cynical, it seems many people who financially should be shopping base trims instead take out ridiculous loans to buy higher trims anyways, while actually frugal people likely shop pre-owned
This is spot on and not cynical at all, it’s the reality of the car market.
Used cars not being flaming pieces of shit starting in the 80s through the early 90s as EFI and modern design, materials and manufacturing filtered their way through the industry slowly killed basic vehicles. Cheap, penalty box new cars made sense to car buyers in the 1980s when used cars weren’t expected to make it to 100,000 miles, they started rusting out after a few years, interest rates for used cars were punitive and if they weren’t rusted and worn out, they got, like, single digit MPGs with the specter of two gas crises still looking over your shoulder.
That was a much different automotive environment than the last ~30 years (recent COVID distortions notwithstanding) where a 1~3 year old used car is basically just as good as a new car for a significant discount.
Exactly. Why would anyone want a brand new bare bones $32k Ranger when they could get a well equipped XLT model at that price with warranty miles left?
The problem is the price difference between "poverty-spec" and a step or two higher isn't *that much*, so it's not hard to talk yourself into a slightly higher payment / longer loan to add a lot of creature comforts.
Yep. I'm half-heartedly shopping for a car right now, and when jumping from base to a much nicer configuration adds three grand (or about $50 a month to a payment) it's not hard to talk yourself into it. It's awfully easy to say to yourself "Maybe I *do* need air conditioned seats!"
As a manual enjoyer, it is difficult finding a 24 stick shift Tacoma with the options I want. I'm wondering if I am going to have to get a dealer to allocate one...
Why wouldn’t you? Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re not getting much of a discount on a taco anyway.
Similarish problem when I got my Jeep. I wanted a 2-door manual, they were impossible to find outside of the fully loaded rubicons. So I ordered one, waited 4 months and paid 5% under invoice.
I talked a local toyota salesman about it. To summarize the conversation; get in line, we charge $2k markup, deal with it.
If manuals aren't selling, why can you never find them on dealer lots?
Because they aren't making them. [This article](https://www.motor1.com/news/704830/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-sales/) says they sold 3,287 manual tacomas for the 2023 MY. 65 trucks per state if evenly distributed. Another way, toyota has [1277](https://www.scrapehero.com/location-reports/Toyota-USA/) dealers in the USA. That's 2.5 trucks per dealership.
And they most likely allocate these trucks to markets that they know will sell the most.
That's why my Dodge dealership always has a plethora of Hellcats in stock and my smallish town has like 40 hellcats wondering around at any time.
That’s wild. If you’re not picky I’d call around. Someone’s gotta do it for sticker at least.
I’d say just get gladiator but they’re ugly and the taco is so much better.
I really wish they could use their adaptable production lines to offer features like a manual transmission on odd years or something like that. If you look at sales numbers for special interest cars or options, they often start strong then taper off quickly.
When it comes to drivetrain options, they all have to be emissions-tested, which costs the mfr. money, so they're only interested in offering an option that will have steady demand.
Sure, but that's a one time cost, the cost of maintaining an entire supply chain for a low volume part and all of the supporting parts is a pretty big factor which extends beyond the life of the product.
> the cost of maintaining an entire supply chain for a low volume part and all of the supporting parts is a pretty big factor
Oh yeah, that's an even better reason for them not to.
Not only is the complexity at the plant a pain and expensive to accommodate. They have to do all the emissions work to sell it.. it's just not worth it unless they can sell like 20k a year. Particularly because many buyers will just get the automatic anyway
I don’t know why car companies don’t do these like shoe and keyboard drops. Tesla and Rivian and others kind of do that with preorders but those metrics don’t matter as much since it’s just a place in line for a car that’s already being made.
Get enough people to sign up for a commitment to buy a manual ranger at MSRP and then if that number is met, the company brings the car here… if not, they don’t.
Shouldn’t be so fucking hard and we could do without all this mindless speculation from consumers and the brands.
I always love it when they say stuff like " we dropped this paint color cuz noone bought it" meanwhile they only painted like 30 of em across the country and had a 8 month wait if you wanted to order it but of course they had 40 black and 80 white ones on the lots in a 20 mile radius of everyone in existence lol.
You know how bad i wanted a dark green or dark brown fullsize truck??
Yep. There’s numerous people saying you can order x, y, and z. If that was how most cars were sold, it would be a fair argument but a lot of people are just looking at the local places inventory and even if you say “I want x or y feature” the salesperson will just steer you to / incentivize you to take what’s on the lot.
Many consumers still aren’t very used to ordering cars and waiting months for them to arrive - hopefully they will in the future - it’s satisfying getting exactly what you want
exactly, i fully get it though - like your truck gets totaled in a wreck and you need a truck now for work sorta thing so you get what you can get.
also i realize a ton of people somehow dont give a shit what color thier car is.
These are already being built. They’re not unique. They just need to go through with bringing them to a new market. These companies can handle the logistics / legalities of bringing a new car to market… especially a car they have already made and a market they already sell in
They're not being built in the US. The North American ranger is built at the same plant as the bronco which is a higher margin vehicle so they're going to prioritize it.
They also need to federalize the manual for emissions and fuel economy which isn't cheap.
They would sell it if they could but they can't.
They have to crash test every body and EPA certify every engine and transmission combination. Doesn't make economic sense to provide anything but the best selling vehicles. Plus the 25% tariff on light trucks means this would also need to be assembled here.
There’s a ton of demand for these trucks. Just not at the price point they would be offered at. It’s not that people want barebones vehicles. It’s that that want value and value is incredibly hard to come by in almost any market these days; especially the vehicle market.
This would be true if this thing only appealed to car enthusiasts. If this thing was a turbo AWD wagon or something, they'd sell about a dozen.
This thing appeals to a few other groups though. Basically anyone still using a 90's Toyota that's getting ready to die. Gardners, painters, pool boys, some low level construction guys... shit, the dudes with the dually converted Tacomas picking up shopping carts for a living.
All of those people want something they can beat on for the next two to three decades that's cheap as shit and has as few electronics that can break as possible.
So why would you cannibalize those sales with another model with less utility? Very few may want a full size truck in that setup, because it’s a full size. But a small car truck like the ranger,Sonoma, s10, b series, and hilux were and are popular models that is a completely missing segment of the market in America.
The extended cab and king bed options were so unpopular that Chevy and Ford completely dropped them from their midsize trucks. Toyota and Nissan limit them to lower trims.
Most people want a small bed to move some camp gear and a big backseat for their kids.
The kind of person using a midsize as a work truck is probably buying used, which would explain the lack of demand for new single cab king beds.
>But a small car truck like the ranger,Sonoma, s10, b series, and hilux were and are popular
Every small pickup (compact or mid-size) in the US once offered a single cab with a longer bed between 7' and 8' long. They were all discontinued starting in the early '90s because they weren't popular.
Are they? I can't find any long beds for sale in my area. Not even Rangers, and they were the last holdout in 2009.
But that just begs my original question: Where was that demand 15-20 years ago?
Damn that sucks man, I have two they're pretty junky but both have 250k+ miles and still going down the road. They just happened to be long beds, they were the cheapest little trucks I could find. I see a couple around here on marketplace right now.
[here’s](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=382512722&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d354&sourceContext=shareListingEmail#listing=382512722) some [examples](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/vdp.action?listingId=382250917&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d125&sourceContext=shareListingEmail#listing=382250917) from a cursory search.
I couldn’t tell why they went away, as I was just a kid at the time, but I can tell you I knew a lot of people who had them. My dad had a couple different Mazda b trucks, he loved those things.
Those are both the short 6' beds. [Here's](https://krugauto.com/car/98greenranger-a2590(ad\).jpg) a long bed Ranger; [here's](https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/150/9219/27321905-2003-gmc-sonoma-thumb.jpg) a Sonoma.
You say bloated, but this is the same size, just more space is devoted to the bed than the cab. A single cab truck is a niche vehicle at this point with more disadvantages that advantages
A single cab truck is much more versatile in the city and on the farm/ runaround than a quad cab. I say bloated because the proportions make the truck look short and frumpy. It’s not a good looking configuration.
I'd argue a single cab is *less* versatile, especially when it's something like this mid-size Ranger that only has seating for two. And the seats are almost touching the rear wall. In a full-size single cab, you at least get some storage space behind the 3-person seat.
Well being that it’s bare bones, it would be a *cheap* vehicle. That means, an accessory, or main/entry vehicle for those who don’t need 4 doors and the 50k price tag full size trucks command now a days, but offers them towing and cargo that you can’t find nowadays.
What do farmers drive stateside? Because since land rover disappeared up their own arses with the defender and disco, the countryside has been littered with heavily panel damaged and sheep shit covered base model pickups. Rangers, hiluxes and l200s a plenty. I assume American farmers are just as tight and don't want to get sheep shit all over one of those big fancy 4 door pickups.
Depends on the farmer really. Some stick to base models, you'll see some driving fully loaded trucks. At least near me, seems like most will stick to a step above a base model so they can get options that are nice to have without adding anything too crazy. You don't see too many single cabs anymore though, they honestly kind of suck.
Man, I know I'd be one of the few that would be interested in one of these, but I'd really like one to stick a camper in the bed. The form factor of the Ranger with a 2660 lb payload capacity would be a lot more versatile than the crew cab. My crewcab has around a 1400 lb payload capacity, and really limits stuff like that.
The capacity has more to do with regulations than being a single cab
The double cab in South Africa also has over 2500lbs of payload. The US is quite strict in that sense
Yeah, I mean it’s all based on GVWR. GVWR-curb weight=payload. Lighter truck, better payload. All the rangers outside the raptor are basically the same underneath.
I would not be surprised if the next generation of Silverado/Sierra 1500 and F150 do not come with a regular cab configuration at all. They'll likely be available on 3/4 and 1 ton trucks as fleet/tow companies will still buy them but the non-commercial market has pretty much abandoned the configuration. Only Ford offers it in anything but a basic spec trim and only GM and Ford offer it in their lineup at all based on current chassis (the RAM is the older chassis/bodystyle). You barely see even extended cab versions out there now of them. It really is sad; the crew/5.5' configuration is pretty useless unless you're towing a trailer or never hauling anything long.
> I would not be surprised if the next generation of Silverado/Sierra 1500 and F150 do not come with a regular cab configuration at all.
I used to own a regular cab F150, and I'm surprised they're still made at all, honestly. They are miserable to live with unless the truck is used for 100% work and that work requires an 8' bed at all times.
There is literally no other use case for which it makes sense.
>I mean, the point of a truck is to haul stuff and do work, some running around to do some errands and whatnot. Sure some people having a truck as an all rounder makes sense, but certainly not the numbers in which the wide majority of 1/2 ton crew cabs sell.
The point of a truck is whatever the people buying them think it is. For half tons, that is something people can drive to work on the weekdays and tow and haul stuff on the weekends. A crew cab is much better suited for that.
>The regular cab configuration makes massive sense when positioned against the main use-case for a truck in the first place.
Even fleet buyers of half tons don't want single cabs anymore. In the event you need to haul more than 1 person and their bags, a single cab is completely useless, whereas there isn't much you can haul with an 8' bed that you couldn't haul with a 6.5" bed in a pinch, especially when you consider the payload.
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You may be right. Take a look at the Ram Classic: it dropped the regular cab/6.5' last year, and this year appears to have dropped the reg/8' too. Ford also joined GM in making it base trim only for '24.
Looking at fleet trucks, a lot of them are still base trim, but they're extended or crews.
>the crew/5.5' configuration is pretty useless unless you're towing a trailer or never hauling anything long.
A crew is basically required if you want to fit child seats with room to move, and that also means choosing the 5.5' bed unless you have a big garage. Not many people are schlepping 8' materials around with their half-ton anyway, but if they need to, it's perfectly acceptable to put the tailgate down. The truck won't explode.
I decided to rent a trailer for my fence project last weekend. It was $22 from U-Haul and had probably 2400lb of wood and concrete loaded by a forklift from the lumber yard.
I’ll use my bed for smaller projects but why risk damaging my 45k truck the couple times per year I need more than the 5.5’ offers when $20 for a trailer makes it so much easier. Plus no payload worries.
My 6x10 Aluma trailer has been more useful than any pickup can, at least for dimensionally large stuff that doesn't weigh a lot. I don't have a 5th wheel or a boat, so having a load height that's way lower as well as a built-in ramp is just so much better than a long pickup bed.
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There has always been a demand for low spec'd 4x4 trucks... it's the dealerships that do not want to order them or sell them because the profit margin is not there.
>There has always been a demand for low spec'd 4x4 trucks...
Yeah, they sell about a zillion of them to fleet buyers, but most people spending their own money on trucks do not want the poverty spec.
If everyone who claimed to want a low spec 4x4 actually went to the dealership and ordered one, dealers would stock them.
I think its more like "I want the full off-road package and bigger engine but none of that chrome crap, power seats, huge infotainment system, fake plastic leather, sunroof etc". Sure, nobody wants the absolute basic spec. They want the most functional spec. Commercial trucks do this too.
Totally agree, but these truly ***base*** models don't really sell. Especially when people aren't buying them outright it's a tough sell to lose A/C for people who aren't enthusiasts
Exactly, this spec just is such a niche that doesn't exist in volume. There just isn't enough of an advantage over having the extra room for four adults of the crew cab or the extra interior space of an extended cab.
Losing extended cabs is a bit of a blow for the mid sized segment. I am not the market for one, but I see the use for a lot of fleets.
Even a crew cab mid sizers lack cabin space though. Unfortunately I will likely be giving up my Colorado soon for more rear seat space to fit car seats.
I was gonna rag on you for getting rid of a 2019 Model Year "already" until I realized that's a 5 year old vehicle at this point.
Christ I'm old.
Enjoy your family, wish you all the best.
> Unfortunately I will likely be giving up my Colorado soon for more rear seat space to fit car seats.
You literally just explained why almost all pickups are crew cabs now. I can't even remember being in a car seat, but regulations now would have put me in a booster until beyond when I would have been old enough to drive in some states.
A mid-size crew cab has about the same length as a full-size ext cab, and not as much width. A mid-size ext cab is too short to fit adults sitting forward, so it's really only good for cargo (like what Toyota's doing with the Xtra Cab).
>A mid-size crew cab has about the same length as a full-size ext cab
Where are you getting this idea? Yeah, the newer Colorado/Canyon and Tacoma and Ranger are better than previous generation, but none holds a candle to backseat legroom of a Silverado/F150/Tundra crew cab. More likely close to the full-size extended cabs than anything. If the numbers on a page say otherwise they're imaginary.
Me: who sat in all 3 new midsized trucks this past winter at the autoshow and did not experience any of the limousine space you get in a full-size pickup.
All the commenters probably weren’t alive/were too young for a car at that time and are now pining for what they think was a better era even though they never experienced it (myself included).
I promise, I PROMISE if this comes to north america in this spec I will buy it... and i'm sure I speak for many of my fellow quebeckers when I say many here would buy it!!!
I don't. Here's my take: If you actually wanted this type of truck then you already own a single cab F-150 XL. For what would probably be $3-$5K USD in the real world you get the half-ton frame and the 5.0L V8. And in my experience people truly seeking the bare bones honest to goodness work truck would pay that difference in a heartbeat for those two benefits alone.
The full size trucks are too big. They'd absolutely sell for places needing a compact work truck. It sucks shit to drive a truck in the city. The old Rangers were the perfect size, I'm honestly looking for a decent one and if they were selling just a plain reissue of the 2008 or so Ranger I'd genuinely go for that over any of the fullsize trucks.
Having driven both the difference to me is enormous. Fullsize trucks just feel floaty and unsteady, they handle like shit and brake poorly. The ranger feels way tighter and sure-footed to me since the CG is so much lower. A fullsize truck is entirely off the table for me. They're too big. I don't want to own that much of any vehicle. Just takes up too much space and resources.
It takes up almost no space at all and holds far more tools in a more organized and accessible place than any cab would. It can also be unbolted in under 10 minutes if i ever needed the small amount of extra space.
it takes up about 16" which is the difference between a small 4.5ft bed and a 6ft bed.
That's around 30% not "almost no space"
It has half the storage capacity that an extended cab offers behind the driver.
It's an extra accessory you have to buy.
It's an extra thing to lock if you're worried about theft.
It's an extra 20 minutes fucking with it to get more room.
It's worse in pretty much every way, but as long as you're happy, that's all that matters. Can't even fucking lean the seat back to get some head. Like I said.... I have a regular cab. It sucks ass
They're not as tall though. America is just adapting an existing platform to perform without the d pillar. Which is a great entry, but until it's adapted in mass nothing will go beyond adapting an existing platform.
Depends on what you plan to do with it. The Mavericks are great, but if you plan to tow a small camper or something it's much more limited than a Ranger.
Fun fact - the Ranger frame rails and the short wheelbase F150 frame rails are the same external dimensions and the same steel gauge.
Also, payload is a lot closer than most people imagine - especially after the HDPP got axed from the 2024 F150s.
I swapped from a v8 f150 to a ranger and couldn't be happier. Probably won't be able to pull as many people out of the ditch here in Canada but it's not like I do that more than once a year anyway. Usually your just helping them gain traction anyway.
Ranger is much better on gas. Hauls around everything I need. Easier to get around on offroad trails / tight areas.
That being said, I'm not hauling around a camper every weekend or pulling work trailers on a daily basis. Just occasional dirt bike / hockey or golf bag.
Sometimes I do wish I had a 5.0 v8 in my ranger tho, just for a laugh.
That misses the point of having a 2 door manual Ranger. I have an 04 now. I’ve had 4 others in the past. They are smaller and more efficient than a full size truck. I had an F-150 briefly. It was too big. I now have a 22 Ranger extended cab. And it’s a bit big. But better than a full size. I don’t buy new vehicles period. I can’t claim to be in line for this hypothetical truck. But I am the person who wants it.
I didn't miss that point. That person didn't argue that point. I've owned back to back midsize trucks because of size to some degree. However some self awareness of where we sit in the market on this. Now combine that with other niches (work trim, single cab) and you've now basically got a non-existent market segment. Even in this article they mention how this configuration of Ranger represents basically a rounding error for Ford.
nobody can afford that truck. I told you what i would buy. we don't all have gladiator diesel money. I even specified my geographic location since such vehicles sell well here. Thank you.
I didn't tell you to buy a Gladiator Rubicon EcoDiesel. I told you about the F-150 XL single cab. Which I also pointed out that in real world pricing has maybe $3-$5K in actual pricing difference. Which nets you the stronger half-ton frame and the 5.0L V8 (probably the most desired engine in a half-ton truck at this point).
Ford doesn't believe you guys exist (same with GM, Toyota, Nissan, and Jeep). At least not to any real volume number. And I agree. I think there's a reason you completely moved the goalposts and didn't address what I actually said. If you are who you say you are... you'd just buy a damn F-150 XL single cab. Its within the price range of what this Ranger would be (I'm not even sold you read the article) and it serves the purpose... but better.
you don't even know me bro. I read the article. I know about that 5 speed ranger 3.0 life. f150 starts at 50k up here in Canuckistan. Bring us the people's truck. we will buy it.
And the Ranger starts at $48K. You're not addressing the point here. There's hardly any difference in price. If you wanted a NEW single cab bare bones work truck you'd have already bought it.
> and the 5.0L V8 (probably the most desired engine in a half-ton truck at this point).
Not that I disagree with your core argument, but the 5.0 is now playing third fiddle to the 3.5 and 2.7 EBs in the F-150.
Even if you didn't include fleet sales the F-150 would be one of the best selling vehicles in the US and Canada. Beyond that... that's not the argument the person above is trying to make. The difference is between a Ranger XL and an F-150 XL.
The price in reality on this is going to be small (relative to the cost of buying and owning a new truck of any sort) and the F-150 has very strong benefits for its favor. Ford, and every other manufacturer, doesn't think the NA buyers are going to choose the Ranger in this case in any real volume. I agree. If all I had to do to go from Ranger XL to F-150 XL (which comes with the 5.0L!) was spend $5K more? New vehicle buyers will spend that extra. Hell you'll get it back if you ever go to sell the truck.
The person I responded to attempted to imply that people can afford to buy new f150’s because of how well they sell in the US. I was trying to point out that a LOT of those sales are for businesses so the numbers are inflated against the average consumer.
People do one thing but forward intentionally keeps out the most desired options that just makes sense. If this came out in the United States, it would lack just weird things. Options that Ford could sell for like $1000 and still make a good profit, but won’t.
Screw this truck, the article references a [Toyota Hilux Champ](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/) for 10K which is what I want, a flat bed small truck bare bones, no screens etc. sign me up. The say it might be available in Mexico, does that mean you can import it grey market? I have an 86 Ranger 4x4 and while it is really a dog of a vehicle at least it has a bed bigger than a beer cooler and doesn't try to assist me. (There is a certain anxiety around the absence of air bags or head rests or crumple zones or basic crash safety though.)
What are the practical benefits to an automatic transmission? I drive manuals because I have a whole list of practical benefits to them, the most obvious of which is being able to bump start if the battery is failing.
Most people don’t have to deal with the latter problem. Like, ever. People buy automatics because they’re easier, more convenient and nowadays they even get better gas mileage.
Don’t buy a junker and you won’t have to deal with bump starting your car and just use jumper cables in that very rare event where your battery dies. The other 99.99% of your driving experience will be better with the auto unless you just really like driving manual.
>the most obvious of which is being able to bump start if the battery is failing
If this is the most obvious benefit in your list, I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone here of the benefits of a manual transmission in a work truck.
I just want a cheap durable new truck with a warranty to replace my Veloster with. I love my Veloster but it’s starting to have annoying issues. If Ford sells that truck here, I’d probably be one of the 12 people who would buy it.
Something is seriously wrong about the fact that so many vehicles are unavailable with a manual transmission in the world's second largest vehicle market. Stick shift fans may not be the majority but they're everywhere and definitely will buy cars based on that preference. Seems like a big untapped market with a lot of potential. When I bought my new car, (albeit not in the US,) I waited for months to find the model I wanted in manual and when three of them finally hit a local dealer on a Friday I was there at 9 AM on Saturday ready to fork over 10% over MSRP to make it mine. And one of the other two had already been sold before I got there.
Is it really so hard for manufacturers to add manual as an option?
The same magazine will also be critical of a new car or truck not having an interior that isn't opulent enough, and the tech feels like it's from last year.
Americans buy trucks because they see them as the ultimate luxury vehicle..
(Jokes basically write themselves in terms of needing even more space than a full size luxury sedan offers)
It's also interesting because the same people who make comments like "must be nice to be rich!" if you drive a used $30k BMW are casually buying brand new $60k "luxury trucks" every other year
Can't "flex" in a base model, this wouldn't appeal to American truck buyers at all
An American company, making American vehicles, in America and I can't buy what I want. Just, *give me the option* to buy it. Ford wouldn't have to mass produce. I'll pay an extra dealer cost or shipping cost or whatever upcharge. The freedom of choice is part of what makes us who we are. *Let me buy what I want!*
Yeah, no one would buy that besides fleets. I have bought a new ford ranger on the last 18 months and no way in hell would that reg can version even cross my mind as an option.
I guess the one good thing is that the combo actually exists, meaning the parts are available should a proper enthusiast actually wishes to go through with the job of swapping out the auto box with a manual box…
Lot of money and effort and driveway R&D, but then again, they do call themselves enthusiasts.
If we want something like that, we just buy an old one for a fraction of the cost even with today’s absurd secondary market. The cost to maintain, register, insure, and fuel my 99 F350 for occasional use in a non-inspection state is a rounding error on my monthly budget.
Nobody would buy this. Not even fleet sales, because the majority of drivers can’t drive stick anyway.
More than likely - market these things even $5k cheaper than an F-150, and a larger fleet that doesn't need that big of a truck would save a lot of money.
Ultra-base = 4wd w/ low-range transfer case, radar cruise control, a 10.1" screen with Apple Carplay, etc.
And it starts at $36,500
This ain't no base spec small pickup
I would buy this in a heartbeat, I’m on my 5th manual car. That being said I’m weird when it comes to liking manuals. I really don’t know why anyone else would buy this to be honest
American car companies blatantly lie to us and keep us spending exorbitant amounts of money for trucks that are way overpriced. At this point I’m about to buy myself a kei truck and put a v6 in it
I wouldn’t buy this if it came to the US. Because I already bought a new Tacoma with a manual. If Ford actually cared about offering a competitor then it would already be here, but they don’t. Plain and simple.
You're getting downvoted, but you **really** aren't wrong, especially when it comes to workhorse trucks. They're meant to be beat on and nothing more, so they come with nothing and all they guarantee is that they'll drive.
No one wants this type of vehicle. Not the OEMs, not the buyer. Even work trucks have basic features. There's many, many reasons why automatic gearboxes account for 99% of car sales.
Yep the Ranger is mostly a private vehicle in the UK, and the higher spec double cabs are far more common.
Commercial buyers would be more likely to buy a Transit of some sort - those come in all shapes and sizes over there, including single and double cab pickups
I was a little surprised that the test model even came with a "tub" bed. Looking at other markets' mid-size truck offerings, typically the base single cabs have the drop-side tray.
I don't think the cab-chassis version of the Ranger is even available in the UK - like I said those buyers would opt for a Transit.
Dropside pickups are relatively common in Australia/NZ though, there they'd be the majority of single cab sales (although the double cabs are still far more popular)
Sure, but the base Ranger has a much more powerful engine in North America. Those dinky little diesels really make sense where fuel is more expensive, but they're unpleasant to drive. Especially with the manual.
Yea if they ever offered the coyote with a manual in an xl trim f150 I'd be interested. A truck that goes from 0-60 in a blistering 12 seconds isn't going to have much of a market in the US.
My father has one in Australia. Its dreadful for interior space. But I wanted to get a space cab version and learnt ya can't get the V6 diesel in spacecab. Only twin cab... whos rediculous idea was that.
I only buy lower end spec vehicles, always have. I’m actually going to probably pick up an XL single cab F150 here soon if it all looks good.
There’s literally nothing on higher end models I want. I hate fancy electronic features. My current car, a 2005 Grand Marquis is the first I ever had with power windows and keyless entry. The F150 I’m going to look at doesn’t have either of them.
I personally would love something like this but there's just not enough of us out there. You'll get a load of people saying we should get these but it's just not reality. Everyone needs there lifted, chunky tire, gas sucking V8 to get their coffee and groceries in.
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