Hot Take- It makes a lot of sense for Porsche 911 to go hybrid

[-]

Doom_Cat@reddit

If "performance" is specs sheet then yes it makes sense. If you include corners it doesnt. There are models in which it would make sense: Turbo, Targa and even the 4 variants maybe. They are heavy anyway and you could lose the diff to the front aswell as the driveshaft and save some weight there. What will happen: The best selling (which I suspect are the normal 911/s/4/4s will go hybrid to lower the fleet emissions of porsche the most. Then a hybrid turbo with insane power (800-1000?) (Maybe GT2?) And the GT3/RS will remain NA for some time

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

> If you include corners it doesn't This is not true at all. If engineered correctly to keep a similar weight distribution and center of gravity, the difference in weight will be negligible. If anything it may actually be faster in corners because of added traction and the instant torque to pull you out of a corner.

Reply

[-]

mirsgarage@reddit

Dunno about this. Had a Panamera Turbo ST, cross shopped a Tubo S E-Hybrid. You can definitely, absolutely feel the weight. It is the reason why I eventually went with the Turbo/pure-ICE config.

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

I mean yeah, you can feel the weight. It is just straight up heavier in most cases, but that doesn't necessarily mean its worse in corners like OP said.

Reply

[-]

mirsgarage@reddit

Yes, but in saying this, you're proving the guy you replied to, correct. Spec sheet excercise wise, I'm sure it will be "negligible" as you say - potentially even better. But considering everything that isn't a spec sheet, I don't see how you can justify "yes you can feel the extra weight" as better.

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

But I'm not justifying anything. All I did was say that it isn't necessarily worse in corners if done right.

Reply

[-]

Doom_Cat@reddit

Tbh its pretty much like that: More weight = worse in corners Worse braking, worse mid corner, and maybe you can be a bit faster out of the corner with the extra hp... And regarding weight: look at the new C63 "performance" hybrid. Laughable 9km electric range, 8cyl to 4 cyl downgrade and it still weighs 400kg or 881lbs more. The base 911 never was about making big big power, it was about excellent handling.

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

You are simplifying the problem and ignoring what I said completely. If you just dump a battery and a motor in some random place in the car, then yes more weight is worse. If the engineering is done correctly, where your center of gravity and weight distribution are kept the same, then the added weight will make very little difference. The electric motor(s) can be used in a regenerative braking configuration to stop the car much faster than before, and if you have 2 motors at the front wheels, you now have independent torque vectoring to slow the inner wheel in a corner for better turn-in than before.

Reply

[-]

Doom_Cat@reddit

Im 99% sure that braking is limited by tire grip not by brake power. So in braking there should be no advantage, torque vectoring might yield some benefit. Obviously you can add weight and gain performance; Spoilers and tires are a good example. But increasing the weight by .... lets say 200kg to be fair. And then gaining 150hp? Straight line sure it will be faster, but you will feel the 200kg braking and in a corner 100%.

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

Its not about tire grip itself so much so as the force you need to lock up the wheels. In a heavier overall car, you have more weight transferred to the front of the car on top of the wheels under a braking scenario. This increases your normal force applied to the wheels, and thus the front wheels have more grip and require more force to lock them up. In a regular car, this would decrease your braking performance. However, in a hybrid car you now have the added braking force made by regenerative braking from the electric motors. The motors would make up the difference in force required to lock the wheels up, thus actually making the car actually stop more effectively than before. Its hard to explain in words but I had to do these calculations for my own car that I'm building. But in short, a hybrid would stop faster even with a change in weight if using regen braking. You also have the added benefit of using the brake pads less, decreasing brake fade and wear.

Reply

[-]

Doom_Cat@reddit

Im not an expert at this but I did extensively dral with driving dynamics before. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_load_sensitivity The Power transmitted through a tire does increase with load, yes but it only does so to a certain threshold. But the added weight also linearly increases the energy you have to lose while braking. Imo we dont have to get into physics, simple examples should do: what car stops faster; A Lotus Elise or an S65 AMG? Why is weight one of the absolute main concerns in racing? About hitting the braking threshold, im sure most modern cars can easily lock the wheels. Less brake wear, definitly. Brake fade also, but both are managable with correct choice of braking componants and sufficient cooling.

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

I mean yeah, you can feel the weight. It is just straight up heavier in most cases, but that doesn't necessarily mean its worse in corners like OP said.

Reply

[-]

koggit@reddit

All the top Nuremberg ring times belong to high-performance hybrids.

Reply

[-]

TheMisterBear@reddit

That is a racecar that uses hybrid tech to go faster, not for better fuel efficiency. Two completely different use cases and different implementations. That is like comparing NASCAR built by Chevy to a Camaro you can buy at the dealership, they share zero parts and are 2 wildly different cars.

Reply

[-]

koggit@reddit

What makes you think 911's hybrid will be for fuel efficiency and not performance? The Toyota Tundra hybrid gets 18 mpg, but improves towing power. Hybrids can be used to make cars more powerful at towing, faster 0-60, more fuel efficient, or any combination thereof. Depends how its designed. My whole point is hybrid doesn't just mean Prius; hybrid doesn't mean eco-friendly. Some of the highest-performance cars in the world are hybrids because being hybrid is their best option for peak performance. Porsche's 919 Hybrid Evo is hybrid because that was the best design to get peak performance. Yet when people talk about hybrid Miata or 911 or whatever everyone's poo-poo'ing eco-friendliness. Hybrid does not necessarily mean eco-friendly. Hybrid is the future. Hybrid powertrains beat purely mechanical drivetrains in every way except weight & cost. 911's hybrid system reportedly weighs less than 60 lbs total.

Reply

[-]

Doom_Cat@reddit

The 919 was hybrid because it originates from LMP where regulations push to (or force) hybrids :D Hybrids are built to lower manufaturers fleet consumption. 918 was rated at 1. Something liter per 100km. Do they make sense in daily cars? Yes! In sportscars though... No If mazda would want more power in an MX5 they could just turbo it. And where is that 60lbs figure from? Sounds like a starter generator mild hybrid...

Reply

[-]

koggit@reddit

“the electric-propulsion components of the powertrain reportedly weigh under 60 pounds” - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46167074/2025-porsche-911-preview/ Regardless of what led to the development I’m just emphasizing the top Nuremberg times belong to hybrids. I’m rebuking the majority of comments that are saying “the 911 shouldn’t be compromised for the environment”; saying hybrid doesn’t mean compromised; the highest performance cars in the world are hybrid. If it’s a compromise why isn’t a gas-only car #1 at Nuremberg?

Reply

[-]

Doom_Cat@reddit

Except they are not for street legal cars. If you count out the AMG one you have: Gt2rs manthey Gt black series Gt3rs Aventador svj Gt2rs Radical Huracan And so one... not one hybrid No artura, no SF90, 295

Reply

[-]

ReyneOfFire@reddit

Its hard to take you seriously when you compare an 1100hp, 1800lb prototype endurance race car to a 911. For your own education, hybrid drivetrains in race cars are signficantly downsized, and are optimized to fill gaps in a power curve instead of fuel economy and range like in cars we drive.

Reply

[-]

dingusduglas@reddit

Tell me more about this Nuremberg ring...

Reply

[-]

DanielG165@reddit

Hybrid doesn’t inherently correlate to “heavy”. Especially when it comes to Porsche, they would absolutely find a way to keep the weight down as much as possible if/when a hybrid 911 is made, and technology will have very likely advanced enough by that point for such a task to be easier. Plus, you already have hybrid performance cars like the 296, Artura, Revuelto, and SF90/XX that make corners make sense, and are, according to those that have driven them, incredibly good handling cars.

Reply

[-]

Bonerchill@reddit

Every hybrid system adds weight of motor, battery, wiring at minimum. The hybrid Cayenne and Panamera are heavier than their ICE counterparts. The 2022 Cayenne e-hybrid was 5164lbs, the Cayenne S was 4740. The Panamera E-Hybrid whatever was 4967lbs, the GTS was 4714lbs. No can have cake and eat it too; some cake must be consumed.

Reply

[-]

kakakavvv@reddit

While I agree with the sentiment, 911 being a "lightweight" sports car, that ship has sailed 2 decades ago. They still handle wonderfully and compensated for the weight, but modern 911, including the GTs, are not built with lightweight in mind. Also I have faith that if anyone can get a good driver's hybrid sportscar right, it's gotta be Porsche.

Reply

[-]

Bonerchill@reddit

Oh, idgaf about modern 911s, don’t get me wrong. I couldn’t care less about their wide, lardy, water-cooled asses. But I care about avoirdupois as a whole affecting cars and using hybrid systems to boost speed rather than increase efficiency is something I am wholeheartedly against.

Reply

[-]

markeydarkey2@reddit

>The hybrid Cayenne and Panamera are heavier than their ICE counterparts. The 2022 Cayenne e-hybrid was 5164lbs, the Cayenne S was 4740. The Panamera E-Hybrid whatever was 4967lbs, the GTS was 4714lbs. Those are also PHEVs, a regular hybrid won't be substantially heavier.

Reply

[-]

Bonerchill@reddit

The Corolla gains 78lbs, or 2.6%. The aftermarket Vonnen hybrid system for earlier 911s adds 170lbs.

Reply

[-]

hi_im_bored13@reddit

On the other hand the m240i added a mild hybrid system and it gained no weight whatsoever. In going with the mild hybrid setup porsche is getting rid of the turbos on the base engines and you can get rid of the starter motor. The weight should largely even out.

Reply

[-]

dingusduglas@reddit

It can literally only add weight.

Reply

[-]

kraken_enrager@reddit (OP)

The 992.2 911 is gonna be hybrid, probably should be out in a year or two.

Reply

[-]

StatementOk470@reddit

Too much weight for it to be worth it. You have to undersrand the 911 platform is something of a recipe that has been evolved by Porsche over the decades and there’s no way adding weight will make it better. I’m not even talking about overall weight, but rather where you would put the weight.

Reply

[-]

kraken_enrager@reddit (OP)

Really, can you actually tell apart the few kgs in weight? Even after driving 2 gens, I doubt an average enthusiast can tell, let alone an average person. And it’s not like there is going to be a prev gen M2 vs current M2 kinda difference—and even in that the weight is apparently not a deal breaker. Honestly, would you rather have a super light car, or would you have better performance AND safety, cuz if not, then go ahead and get an Ariel atom or BAC mono which would probably suit you better.

Reply

[-]

StatementOk470@reddit

Read the last sentence of my comment.

Reply

[-]

kraken_enrager@reddit (OP)

I’m sure engineers are Porsche are smart enough to figure that out. Maybe make the rear seats smaller, anyway nobody can sit there, may as well go the whole way.

Reply

[-]

StatementOk470@reddit

I’m sure they will when regs come to get them. But I highly doubt they will make a hybrid just because.

Reply

[-]

kraken_enrager@reddit (OP)

It’s confirmed I believe that the next 911 is a hybrid.

Reply

[-]

GMFPs_sweat_towel@reddit

> You have to undersrand the 911 platform is something of a recipe that has been evolved by Porsche over the decades and there’s no way adding weight will make it better. Have you seen how much bigger the current 911 gen is?

Reply

[-]

StatementOk470@reddit

That is why included the last sentence. It is not about hard numbers but weight distribution.

Reply

[-]

phxbimmer@reddit

I don't even want turbos in a 911, let alone hybrid stuff. Keep it simple and light, I don't care about 0-60 times.

Reply

[-]

ScissorNightRam@reddit

I hear you. The OG 911 was roughly the Miata of its day. Very small, very modest power, an indulgence but not an expensive one. The astonishing model bloat, power bloat, feature bloat, range bloat, price bloat and just “bloat” bloat on the 911 is emblematic of car industry economics over the past 60 years.

Reply

[-]

phxbimmer@reddit

Yeah it’s exclusively a rich people car now, especially if you want an NA motor or a manual transmission.

Reply

[-]

kraken_enrager@reddit (OP)

Like he said, get the BRZ/miata for a cheaper cayman or something.

Reply

[-]

PristineArm5528@reddit

Who cares what sense it makes. It’s the direction. Then electric. Get over deciphering it. Just like the good ol boys in the 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s….. Same story. It’s happening. Grab the cars you want , and move with the herd that you don’t want

Reply

[-]

Cost_Additional@reddit

Boo this man! Boo!

Reply

[-]

MrEwThatsGross@reddit

I dont think this is a hot take at all. Remember the primary buyer for a NEW 911 is not a young car enthusiast. Its a 65 year old male that wants an impressive spec sheet in a luxurious grand tourer. The collective voice of youtube will complain that the 911 has lost its soul, the car will sell like hotcakes, and r/cars will continue to buy NA Caymans on the second hand market.

Reply

[-]

hugh_madson@reddit

At least this hot take wasn't: Why buy X car when you can buy 2 of y & z cars for the same money as x

Reply

[-]

manwomanmxnwomxn@reddit

Porsche 911 going hybrid will end up high price point with mild reception like the new C63 amg (2.0L 4 pot FWD with electric motor rear for a combined 400+300=700 mated with a fancy transmission

Reply

[-]

neodymiumex@reddit

At least one of the 992.2 variants will pair a high revving NA flat 6 with a hybrid system. That iteration of a hybrid 911 will be highly sought after.

Reply

[-]

TonyFremont@reddit

I wonder if this will be a regulatory loophole. Ditch the complexity and weight of the turbo setup and add a 10kwh battery. You get the signature of an NA engine, but you also get the regulatory compliance of a PHEV even if the fuel economy is pretty terrible once the battery is drained.

Reply

[-]

tyfe@reddit

911 retaining the flat 6 to go with the mild hybrid and will never be FWD. Porsche has been modifying 911s for decades and will not fuck this up like Merc. They know what their customers want.

Reply

[-]

Music34532@reddit

How about no 🤮

Reply

[-]

jasped@reddit

This will be spicy. I agree though. I think it makes sense for a lot of cars to go hybrid honestly.

Reply

[-]

kraken_enrager@reddit (OP)

I wouldn’t have had the same take for say, a huracan or something but for Porsche, yeah.

Reply

[-]

Mik3G13@reddit

No

Reply

[-]

NoctD@reddit

Most 911s will be mild hybrid soon with 48V systems in them, and there will be one hybrid variant in the lineup much like the E-Ray Corvette. More hybrids will follow in the next 911 model switch. GT cars because of their low volume production will remain ICE only for longer.

Reply

[-]

Charles0nline@reddit

You’re in luck the 992.2 will be hybrid. Performance wise a hybrid turbo S is going to be insane.

Reply

[-]

tw1loid@reddit

It will eventually, when the emissions norms cannot be met. That’s what manufacturers have been doing with big hulking SUVs to be able to keep selling them with minimal engine redevelopment

Reply

[-]

Charles0nline@reddit

The 992.2 will be hybrid

Reply

[-]

ExtruDR@reddit

If any car is tied to its “roots” it is the 911. The rear engine and flat six are why it looks the way it does and why it feels the way it does around a track (this is not direct experience). One might argue the same for air cooling, but that ship sailed a while ago. Ultimately, the 911 styling and brand will remain, but there is no version of the future where an all-electric 911 does not exist. They may never get rid of the ICE 911, but a version without a gas engine will happen. I would expect that they will also make it so that the heavy batteries are as low as possible and not all stuffed into the rear, making the rear-engine/weight aspect of the 911 a thing of the past in favor of common sense and superior driving dynamics. Sacrilege? Maybe, but air cooling happened too. In the end the 911 brand and styling will remain, but that will be the only thing that makes it special, underneath will be all the same electric parts that every other (electric) car on the road will have. Is this a problem? Not really. Most lawyers and orthodontists that buy 911s don’t use them on a track.

Reply to Post

59 Comments