How to prevent botulism in water glassed eggs?
Posted by shriekingintothevoid@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 52 comments
I’ve got a lot of chickens, and water glassing seems like a good way to preserve their eggs for the winter. However, I’m a bit concerned about the botulism risk. Does anyone have any ideas for how to prevent it? The best I can come up with is adding a bunch of salt to up the salinity, but I’m worried about how that would effect the taste
PinataofPathology@reddit
Oh! This was a recent a rabbit hole for me. Go Google eggs and salmonella and botulism. Try to find any reported cases for water glassed eggs. There aren't any. There are for regular eggs and pickled eggs tho. The narrative isn't coherent from science to effect.
I, of course, would avoid water glassing if any other options are available and err on the side of caution but I can't link the science to any actual cases. It's weird and now I have questions but no answers.
wanderingpeddlar@reddit
And that is a perfect place to start. :)
The problem is finding a source that is acceptable to you as authoritative.
The worst online slap fights are over how people chose to preserve foods.
The honest answer is most likely it is fine.
*HOWEVER* it is possible that you can get sick even doing it right.
Beneficial-Split-960@reddit
They make a food grade lime powder.
wanderingpeddlar@reddit
And is there a reason you are bringing up a 5 month old conversation?
PinataofPathology@reddit
Yes. To me seeing cases of salmonella and botulism just from regular eggs suggests that eggs just carry an inherent risk of salmonella and botulism. Maybe it's not the water glassing maybe it's just a risk of eggs. Like with raw milk for example. I do know people who drink it. I know people who've gotten sick from it so the data and the outcomes match, but I've never found anything about negative water glassing outcomes at all.
There's no reported cases of people actually getting sick that I can find. It's possible not enough people water glass their eggs to create any kind of statistics, but then that also suggests that water glassing could potentially be safer than we realize.
It's not something I'm going to do personally, it's just that I noticed the disconnect in the narrative and it struck me as odd.
Useful-Poetry-1207@reddit
From what I understand it's an inherent risk of eggs plus the extra amount of time storing them in a non acidic environment that allows the bacteria that's already inside eggs to multiply to an unsafe amount over time. So pickled eggs would be safer but not water glassing them. There's a microbiologist who did a video on this, if I can find it again I'll link it.
PinataofPathology@reddit
The thing is her citations are the same things I can find and none of them register any cases of illness. So the question remains why the narrative disconnect? We're literally parroting science without any corroborating foodborne. Illness evidence when all of the foodborne illness with relation to eggs is in normal grocery store eggs. I live in an area where we have people who drink raw milk so I pay attention to fringe food stuff because it's in my community and raw milk is consistent. People get sick. Not always but you can and do get sick if you drink raw milk. I have literally been unable to find any case studies on anyone who has been made ill by water glassed eggs.
It's not a big deal. It just struck me as odd. There should be a coherent narrative between the science and what we see in outcomes and we just don't have it with this and I just wonder why.
Useful-Poetry-1207@reddit
Personally I really don't see why it matters how frequently it happens when the science proves that it isn't safe. Statistics can be very misleading.
Not very many people water glass eggs. Realistically people like the Amish might get more benefit from selling excess eggs or turning them into baked goods they could use or sell so I don't think this is all that common even in those communities. Many who do water glassing use their eggs up fairly quickly so there might not be enough time for botulism to grow. Or they may be doing so many other unsafe things that it's assumed to be raw milk, water bath canning non acidic foods or some other factor that got them sick. Plus the people who do this kind of stuff are often the same people who don't trust doctors so maybe they just never get medical help.
There are tons of ways to preserve eggs that are much safer and botulism can kill you. Idk why anyone would take this risk if they're not in an extreme survival situation. Even then I'd be out foraging acorns to eat long before I would do something this risky.
SnooChocolates7344@reddit
The USDA is not a effective or ethical source of information for citation purposes regarding food quality or safety.
Kalamitykim87@reddit
True, but there are scientific articles that also back this information
Nufonewhodis2@reddit
Not safe
https://extension.usu.edu/preserve-the-harvest/research/storing-eggs-safely
Pristine-Dirt729@reddit
https://extension.usu.edu/preserve-the-harvest/research/storing-eggs-safely
So let's say a person has a flock without salmonella, like any rational person would have. Your article suddenly means absolutely nothing. Ta da. Now it's safe.
You knucklehead. You didn't even read the article. It's about salmonella. You know you can buy chickens without salmonella and never have it in a homestead flock at all, reducing that risk to absolutely zero?
Nufonewhodis2@reddit
Bottom line remains, water glassing is not a USDA approved method of storage. Specifically for botulism, the solution is neither acidic nor treated with heat and pressure to kill the spores. There arent any reported cases of botulism from water glass eggs to my knowledge, but there have been from home pickled eggs which are more acidic and salty.
So sure, maybe you could "get away" without getting sick, but I think from a prepper standpoint putting yourself at risk for of a foodborne illness is foolish.
Ok_Building_6309@reddit
The reason people fet sick from pickled items, is because they don't properly rinse off all the vinegar, and the pickling lime then neutralizes the acid. That's from improper canning.
Large_Tradition5999@reddit
You know what you get if you heat hydrated lime before adding it to the water glass solution? A safe mixture. Just tell people how to prevent the one potential problem instead of assuming nobody will do it safely.
peakprepper@reddit
Yeah don't do this. It isn't safe.
Think of eggs the way that people thought of milk before refrigeration. They would process the milk into cheese and age it until it was literally shelf stable (parmesan). They didn't worry about the milk because they were always getting it fresh every day. They were saving the surplus.
Process the surplus eggs into shelf stable products like egg noodles or whatever you eat that has egg as an ingredient. Problem solved.
SufficientOnestar@reddit
Coat the eggs in mineral oil,they will last up to 12 months in the pantry.
SnooChocolates7344@reddit
Well the education and critical information gathering skills in the majority here are severely lacking. water glassing eggs is a safe way to preserve eggs and has been proven to last up to 2 years with over 95 percent of eggs still safe to consume .
shriekingintothevoid@reddit (OP)
Considering the fact that I currently have over 100 eggs in my fridge and spring has only just begun, 95 percent is actually pretty terrible.
SnooChocolates7344@reddit
Did you store them there at 54 to 78 degrees for 2 year's.if yes realize most people do not store eggs for 2 years. all the tests from where I'm getting this information states 2 years is the max you should do do to spoilage risks but at 1 year no spoiled eggs were present in 200 egg batches . Also christ alive how many little dinos do you have
shriekingintothevoid@reddit (OP)
I’m not concerned about spoilage, I’m concerned about botulism; that’s literally all I care about. While it might not have shown up in those batches, pickling lime is known to contain botulism, and water glassing eggs does nothing to prevent its creation of botulin, and that’s not something I’m willing to fuck with. I don’t really keep track of the exact size of my flock, but I have around 25, 3 of which are roosters
FlashyImprovement5@reddit
Watch some of the videos on water glassing eggs. You want clean eggs but unwashed.
shriekingintothevoid@reddit (OP)
An intact bloom means an egg won’t rot, but it doesn’t prevent botulism.
FlashyImprovement5@reddit
This isn't the canning police channel. Allow them to read, watch and make their own informed choice.
OlderGuyWatching@reddit
All the 'don't do it" comments are based on what? People have been glassing for years. Please provide any factual proof based on scientific studies. Not emotions.
Warburgerska@reddit
People also have been dying due to homemade food for since ever.
Op would need to boil then afterwards for 15 minutes to kill any botulism out of it, but I doubt those eggs tasting good after such an procedure. If at all, he needs to pickle them as acid prevents it.
You can easily find those studies yourself instead calling it emotions for not being spoon-feed.
SnooChocolates7344@reddit
More people have contracted botulism from commercial canned foods than home canned foods .just look up the repots since the 70s
shriekingintothevoid@reddit (OP)
There’s also a lot more people eating commercially canned food than home canned food, and if a person gets botulism from a can of food they bought, it’s going to get a lot more publicity than if they get it from something they canned themselves.
Warburgerska@reddit
No idea where you live, absolutely not the case in Europe. The only way of getting botulism from commercially canned goods is eating shit which is visibly damaged.
SnooChocolates7344@reddit
Ok fair enough.in America people have been eating lead a bit longer. Skews their faculty's
Warburgerska@reddit
Oh I don't doubt that.
But as I said, your only way of getting botulism here is in eating dented cans, bonus if bloated or much more likely canning yourself with random recipes which you do not understand. Usually young hippie types thinking they can go straight to conserving meat after making jam once, not following the protocols autistically. The danger really is in the fact that you can make fucked up batches for years without knowing or getting it. But if you do, you better have that in mind when rushing to the emergency room.
I personally would never eat homemade conserves which are not sour, as it is the only way of knowing as the consuming end if something really doesn't have botilinum toxin. And I learned how to make sterile conserves as part of my apprenticeship.
Even in an absolute emergency you would be well advised to only consume them when properly heat treated, which again is costly, on fuels.
Op should seriously just dry them as part of pasta for example or pickle. Yeah, they won't taste as good but you won't die an icky death either.
OlderGuyWatching@reddit
So you don't have any scientific arguements to support your sstatement, only things you think you know or you have heard from someone else equally as uneducated about the subject. Comeon, now. "You can find the studies..." is a rather piss poor arguement. Let's try to go with proven facts. I've eaten glassed eggs that are 6 months old without any degridation in quality or taste. People have also died from drinking too much water, but is water bad? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the situation. Rather than present an arguement without foundation why not speak from personal knowledge. Have you eaten glassed eggs? If not, how can you say they should not be eaten. Yea, ,I know what's coming next. Have you eaten cyanide? Then why not? etc etc. If that's going to be your rationale or your hest shot I fully understand where you are going from. You probably heard it on the internet adn therefore it must be true.
Schrecht@reddit
If you want a study, you might try looking at this, posted as a comment before your original one (by u/Nufonewhodis2 ):
https://extension.usu.edu/preserve-the-harvest/research/storing-eggs-safely
Pristine-Dirt729@reddit
Is the motto "read the article before you link it"? Clearly not, or you would have. That's about salmonella. You know, that nobody has in their backyard chicken flock, since you can buy chicks tested and guaranteed to not have salmonella to start your flock in the first place.
Nufonewhodis2@reddit
Nobody? How about 19% in this recent survey in Vermont.
This is the CDC list of all the cases linked to backyard chickens.
Salmonella can be introduced to your flock through other means than new chicks. Feed, equipment, your shoes tracking it in, rodents, wild birds.
In regards to botulism, it will grow in an alkaline solution and even brine/pickle. There aren't any cases of botulism linked to egg glassing to my knowledge, but there are cases linked to home canned pickled eggs.
So bottom line, egg glassing like a lot of traditional food practices is probably fine the majority of time (especially if you're cooking the product long enough to destroy the toxins), but I personally wouldn't risk it for me and my family (and especially in the context of possible limited access to medical resources)
Schrecht@reddit
You're absolutely right that I didn't read the article. I foolishly *assumed* that it was about, you know, storing eggs safely, since that's in the title.
Nufonewhodis2@reddit
It does list all the safe practices. Home canning/pickling and water glassing stent considered safe.
Ruined_Oculi@reddit
Meh, let them live in fear. I'll keep drinking my 5 raw eggs a day.
Warburgerska@reddit
I am prepping and making jarred conserves for a long time. I have read multiple studies to not kill my kids. But I don't feel any need to spoon-feed lazy tards on the internet when all you have to do is go to ncbi and look them up yourself.
But the fact that you think that it is no issue because you ate 6 months old glassed eggs tells me that you don't even understand essential things about botulism nor science or "facts".
Stupid gonna stupid, I guess. You do you, nothing of value will be lost.
GigabitISDN@reddit
This was already answered hours before you replied.
https://extension.usu.edu/preserve-the-harvest/research/storing-eggs-safely
mckenner1122@reddit
Ok: https://extension.usu.edu/preserve-the-harvest/research/storing-eggs-safely
Also? They taste like shit.
Pristine-Dirt729@reddit
You didn't read that article, did you? It's about salmonella, and you know how to keep salmonella out of your flock? Buy chickens without salmonella to start your flock, don't let your chickens come into contact with other people's chickens, ta da no fucking salmonella and your article is completely irrelevant.
PissOnUserNames@reddit
Add a few ducks to the flock if water isnt a concern. I have a creek next to my house so there's no concern for me about water usage. Ducks are more apt to continue to lay throughout winter without need for more light. My 5 girls egg production dropped but kept me enough eggs to make it through winter. I'm now back to getting 5 eggs a day. The eggs are slightly larger and more nutrient dense than a chicken egg. A single duck egg has about double every nutrient a single chicken egg contains. Fewer people are allergic to duck eggs. If you have a chicken egg allergy try duck eggs. Being allergic to both is extremely rare. They are less likely to destroy garden (they will eat sprouts) than chickens and will happily go through eating the bugs in your garden.
I can go on. My conspiracy theory and a hill I will die on is ducks are the superior poultry. They was popular in the USA before ww2. Then the USDA wanted to get all farms in the US using the same practices but they are less suited for dryer climates so they choose to push chickens instead.
lustforrust@reddit
Duck eggs make better brownies. I don't know what it is about 'em but they turn out more chewy, soft, and flavorful.
PissOnUserNames@reddit
Professional bakers say duck eggs are the secret ingredient to baking. Your right idk what it is but everything comes out just a little better baked with a duck egg
Rude_Veterinarian639@reddit
The vast majority of Europe doesn't store eggs in the fridge.
So I'm not convinced that the "science" that says they need to be in the fridge is legit.
wanderingpeddlar@reddit
Not sure why you are getting passed over but you are 100% right.
Why Are Eggs Refrigerated in the US but Not in Europe? (thespruceeats.com)
And before any of the it can only be done one way start in, Europe has less cases of salmonella.
Its hard to compare botulism as Europe does not break out the cause of botulism. It is worth noting that the US averages 19 to 21 cases of food borne botulism per year. That is with Amish and some other groups WATER CANNING MEAT.
Anyway if you can get unwashed eggs they will keep at room temps for two weeks to a month.
Keeping them in a root cellar or refrigerator they are good for six months.
Sometimes the survivalist community gets something in their heads and correct or not it is long day trying to correct misinformation. Take rabbit starvation for example.
Delgra@reddit
The science is definitely sponsored by Big Fridge lobbyists.
Outrageous-Leopard23@reddit
Just don’t wash them with water, then they will last around 6 months in the fridge. You can brush them off and not interfere with the protective membrane
IGetNakedAtParties@reddit
For botulism prevention you need either dehydration, acid, sterilisation or refrigeration. If you're fixed on glassing them then you'll have to keep them refrigerated below 4°C to prevent the growth of botulism bacteria.
Fenrirbound@reddit
Pickling or dehydrating would probably be a better option.
peakprepper@reddit
Yeah don't do this. It isn't safe.
Think of eggs the way that people thought of milk before refrigeration. They would process the milk into cheese and age it until it was literally shelf stable (parmesan). They didn't worry about the milk because they were always getting it fresh every day. They were saving the surplus.
Process the surplus eggs into shelf stable products like egg noodles or whatever you eat that has egg as an ingredient. Problem solved.