Virgil
Posted by 1KyloRen@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 50 comments
I really like the character of Virgil, and I wish they would have used him more. He is how the writers should have handled Joxer from the beginning instead of making him the clown. His son became the warrior he never could be. Did anyone else, (besides the “progressive” fan base) see any potential relationship between Virgil and Gabrielle?
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
virgil is good, but then again he wasn't funny. joxer was there to bring laughs. only half his jokes landed but he was there to lighten up the mood even if it was just in universe. joxer needed more work, but virgil and him are totes different and virgil makes joxer better for raising such a great boy. it feels like joxer learned stuff from his family and refused to make the same mistakes.
plus could you really see virgil going into the woods and coming back with orpheus's head and spending time styling the dude's hair while being insulted?
RedwoodFox71@reddit
I wouldn’t say that, Virgil was good. But he wasn’t okay character, but I know else that character was supposed to do in the show.
Other than he being around Gabrielle and keeping her company time he appeared. While I don’t know, if he had a promising role in the sixth season.
There was nothing great about his character to show that he was more than, just Joxer son and is a good and better fighter than his father and had a thing for Gabrielle.
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
think you missed what i was saying. basically, virgil is a good character but the niche dynamic was not set up for him to shine in any way. He wasn't an equal to the heros, he didn't have history with the heros, he wasn't funny or anything outstanding... He was a great human, a wonderful son, but not made for story progression. And the hole he would fill he was unable to as he lacked the traits his father had. virgil played well off joxers and made him shine. if they were to do anything with him it would be clips from when he was growing up with joxer as his father.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
Um, ok. I see.
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
Since Gabrielle is absolutely gay and very in love with Xena, absolutely not. I consider this character as terribly useless and annoying. Oh yeah, and creepy. He got this from his father.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
Yes! Gabrielle was totally gay for Xena and is in love with.
While I’m not a fan of Virgil as a character, he was an okay character in a series. But that was about it with his character, but there was nothing too great about him in the show.
As I don’t know, if he had a promising role in the sixth season. As he didn’t do anything else other than his there and around Gabrielle, anytime he is on the scene and nothing else as he didn’t have his own moment in the show.
That stand out as his own character.
Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit
I really liked Virgil in Who's Ghurkan where he got to be the comic relief and show a bit of his dad's goofy side, and yet, because of his bard skills he had a bit of dramatic flare when he was playing the dashing pirate. I would like to have seen more of that side to his personality, have him dressing up and pulling off heists like Autolycus did in a lot of his episodes.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
Virgil was okay in that episode and yes, he got to show his funny side, but that’s all he did in that episode and he wasn’t much seen again after that not even seen in the end of the episode.
As I wonder what him and Eve were doing, while they are probably waiting for Xena and Gabrielle. To trying find and rescue Gabrielle’s niece Sarah, they must be there waiting for days or weeks for them to return.
Agent8699@reddit
I certainly never saw a relationship between Virgil and Gabrielle, even if some of the writers did by making him objectively handsome, a warrior and a poet.
I don’t see what he would have added to the show. The series could have used a new audience surrogate - to allow Gabrielle to grow - but Virgil wouldn’t be a great fit for that role. They needed someone more like Amarice - some to get into / cause trouble, someone for Gabrielle to mentor, someone to look up to Gabrielle (and Xena), someone sheltered so that could ask the “dumb” questions for the audience, etc.
Virgil and his boyfriend should have just sailed off into the sunset in their canoe.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
Me too, never saw anything between him and Gabrielle.
I only saw that him, having to being his hero and inspiration. Having him being a poet just like she is, well I think he had a little bit of a crush on Gabrielle. The same that his dad did, but other than that.
That all he was in the whole entire character in the show, while I don’t know whether his character supposed to have promising. A role in the sixth season as he was nothing, but being around Gabrielle anytime he appeared.
The only thing character is good for that, he was going to forgive Eve killing his father Joxer in blood. When was Livia in season 5, before she was magically turned back into Eve.
Because Virgil only wanted to get revenge on Eve for killing his father, after that he really didn’t do anything else as I don’t know what he’s feeling towards Eve.
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
Virgil was decidedly not gay. Enough with all that nonsense.
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
You decided to like an ultra gay show, there is no nonsense here. Xena and Gabrielle, Eve and Varia, Virgil and Hosep, Cesar and Pompeii, Ares and Caligula. They keep them coming, deal with it.
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
There is nothing “gay” about it, it’s just subtext read into by a minority.
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
You're probably not used to it, but in the fandom of the show and the general audience of the show, you are the minority. A straight person liking a show that was explicitly written for mainly a gay audience. Hope you can visit a Xena con one day, might be eye opening for you.
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
OK, personally I can’t see why people thought Xena and Gabrielle were gay. Just because they traveled together and were best friends, doesn’t give reason to draw that conclusion. Hercules and Iolas traveled together, and were best friends, but no one accused them of anything lewd.
Scrubla@reddit
They kiss on the mouth a lot for travelling companions.
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
Then they did everything right. "Hiding" it from a straight audience was essentially for the survival if the show in homophobic times like that. It was intentionally written to speak to a gay audience in times when it was still a taboo to speak to a gay audience. Here's a podcast with Steven L. Sears where he explains the origins of it and how they dealt with restrictions. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/writer-producer-supervising-producer-steven-sears-talks/id1521841767?i=1000486947278
It is not like there was nothing and some crazy people put their imagination in, it was absolutely intentional. So you should definitely know that the intention of the show was to portray Xena and Gabrielle as a romantic couple. Not seeing it is one thing but denying that is problematic because it is a fact.
Also it was a lot easier to portray women in a lesbian relationship, subtext or not, than men. Female sexuality, especially lesbian sexuality was not taken seriously at that time. It was easy to smuggle the gayness between two women into a show because, as you proof it, straight people and especially straight men would never see it. But aside from that you might want to dig into Hercules Fanfiction a bit. Maybe use the tag "slash", it's worth it, I promise 😉
IseQween@reddit
Thank you for the podcast link. Of Xenastaff, Sears' perspective has always represented for me what I most appreciate about XWP, especially as portrayed by Lucy and Renee. He talks about series being a "living creature" influenced by both financial interests and biases, as well as by diverse audiences, how XWP producers agreed to walk that line to push the boundaries of responsiveness and inclusivity regarding traditionally discounted fans.
Sears says for him X&G's "bonding was the most important thing," that their souls belonged together regardless of orientation, body they were in, other possible romantic interests or interpretation of their relationship. That resonates with my own view. Maybe it's why I have no problem respecting what others see in that bond -- even whether they care about it at all. No other show has continued to live for me in all the different angles I can view it from as long as I remain open to considering what's beyond the limitations of what I already see.
SNI2@reddit
EXCUSE ME, Cesar and Pompeii!? What about my boy Brutus!?
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
Absolutely! Keep em coming!
Agent8699@reddit
Are you trying to suggest Pompeii wasn’t buried under volcanic ash, but rather under a hot, flowing substance that originated from Caesar?!
Wow, XWP really was groundbreaking!
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
I mean, Pompeii is 'fruity' af. One of my gay best friends said "no straight man would ever refer to himself as The magnificent". And historically it's quite likely that Ceasar at least experimented a little. There's a lot of tension between them.
Agent8699@reddit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii
My wit is unappreciated : (
General_Eisenfaust@reddit
I appreciated it with an upvote
Agent8699@reddit
How disrespectful to Hosep and the love he shared with Virgil on their canoeing vacation!
It’s bad enough he was captured and eaten by cannibals, but now you besmirch his memory like this?!
: )
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
I think you’re joking, right?
Agent8699@reddit
Only Virgil and Hosep know! Well, also Xena and Gabrielle depending upon how close each pair camped to one another.
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
Oh Mylanta.
BlueSonic85@reddit
I didn't mind Virgil, but Joxer was way better imo. The guy was a loveable doofus.
It kinda feels S6 was going to have Eve and Virgil as major supporting characters and then the writers just changed their minds and they pretty much disappear.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
Yeah, Virgil was an okay character. As definitely was better and opposite to his dad Joxer, the only he share with his dad is he had the same trait having a thing for Gabrielle.
Yes, I agree that. Virgil and Eve were to have a major role in season 6, but both of them disappeared after their last appearance.
As I feel like Virgil he didn’t have much of a promising role in the show, other than being there and being around Gabrielle when he’s on screen.
The only he is hovering around Gabrielle is, when he was forced to help Xena get sold. In Who's Gurkhan then Gabrielle as well, while in the Abyss we see him running and escaping from cannibals.
For half of the episode then he comfort Gabrielle and later he helped to fights the cannibals after trying to escape and got catched, but after that this was his last appearance and he wasn’t seen or heard or mention again after that.
Well, I don’t know. If he supposed to have more role after. He would never use it again in the shirt after the Abyss.
The only thing I could see him in another episode is him is forgiving Eve, killing his dead Joxer in cold blood when she was Livia.
After that, I don’t know was else does his character suppose to do.
SaintBallista@reddit
Joxer = the best real MVP
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
I think a spinoff show featuring Virgil and Eve with occasional appearances by Gabrielle, would have been a good idea.
BlueSonic85@reddit
I'd have watched that certainly. Maybe Varia as well to have a bit of tension in the group.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
Virgil was an ok and a decent character in season 5, but nothing special or too great about his character.
He seems to be a good and better fighter than his father Joxer and good looking, he probably got his fighting skills perhaps from his mother Meg and about it with his character.
But Virgil didn’t have too much of a role in season 6 as I don’t know, if he had a promising role in the show as he only appeared in 3 episodes.
Before he disappeared and was never seen, heard or mentioned again after his last appearance in the Abyss.
As all he do with his is around Gabrielle anything he is on the scene, as his character is to break the love tension between Xena and Gabrielle.
Like the writers always do, when things get too queer. Between them they put a man in it, just break lovely dovey attention between them.
As the writers made Gabrielle had a make out session with Virgil in Heart Of Darkness, which was hard to watch at first watch and later to cringe see again. But that is ok, because it wasn’t themselves.
As they was in some sort of spell or something, because Gabrielle no sign of having feelings or thing for Virgil.
ChippieChamp@reddit
Virgil was an ok
anonymousavacado2@reddit
Lol reading the OPs comments makes me wonder why he is even a fan of the show
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
I am a fan of the show because it had good stories and was and still is a very good series.
anonymousavacado2@reddit
I get that, and respect that take, but its also known that the actors and writers went in the direction that gabrielle and xena were a couple. I liked that the series didn't only harp on that, but it was in there
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
Well, I guess they made it that way so you can take away what you want to from it as a fan. That’s fine too.
anonymousavacado2@reddit
It's fine until you call certain fans out in a way that makes it like they're reaching for a conclusion that has been made clear by those who made the show
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
Why is it not yet clear to you that I choose not to see it that way.
anonymousavacado2@reddit
It's clear how you see it, im saying don't tell other people it's wrong when it's obvious you're the one wrong
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
I’m not wrong if I see it that way, and in your head, you’re not wrong if you see it your way. Now stop arguing with me.
anonymousavacado2@reddit
Oh now I want to argue with you the whole night
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
Oh hush up.
Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit
I loved joxer but hated virgil.
theseedbeader@reddit
Nah, I like Joxer just the way he was. We saw serious, capable warriors all the time on Xena, I’m glad we had someone lighthearted along on the journey.
DuchessSwan@reddit
I LOVED both Joxer and Virgil. I found it endearing how Virgil tries to live up to his father's legacy, and how Joxer finally did become the hero he wished to be. They're different, but both had a place on the show, I am sad Virgil didn't get more storyline... I could imagine him being Gabrielle's sidekick
1KyloRen@reddit (OP)
Or more likely, vice versa.
RotaVitae@reddit
Not me. Virgil was raised on Gabrielle's scrolls his whole life and preferred writing. Gab was his role model more than Joxer or Xena. I don't think in his right mind he would openly show affection for someone he idolized his whole childhood unless he were an unhinged crazed stan. Not to mention that he would be crushing on the woman his own father crushed on for years and only really gave it up after he was convinced she was dead.
Heart of Darkness showed that in his darkest heart he had those feelings, but when he wasn't under influence of the Hellmouth, he didn't act on them. He knows better and respected what she had with Xena.