Are 'London' and 'Greater London' the same thing?

Posted by ThisIsSparta3@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 343 comments

When people refer to London, are they most commonly referring to Greater London, and would that mean the whole of Greater London counts as one city? As it says on Wikipedia: " **London** is the capital and largest city of England, and the United Kingdom, with a population of around 8.8 million, and the largest city in Western Europe by metropolitan area, with a population of 14.8 million. " That population must mean 'London' at least refers to Greater London right? And also where does the 'London Metropolitan Area' fit into it all?

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Kitchner@reddit

Depends on the context: * If you live on the edge of "Greater London" you live in "London" * If you live on the edge of "Greater London" and you are going into the centre of the city sometimes I will refer to that as "Going into London" even though I live in London. Can also be called "Central London", "The city" or "Central". * The "City of London" is a very specific area of London, which is generally referred to as "The City" or the "Square Mile". If I was going somewhere there and I wanted to be specific I would refer to it as "The City". * Some people, usually people who can afford to live in Zones 1-4 will insist that "London" ends near where they live and anyone living on the outskirts of Greater London "don't really live in London". I refer to these people as "Knobs".

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Glass_Extension7656@reddit

If you live in Bolton which is part of greater Manchester you would say you live in Bolton not Manchester m.

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Rat-Loser@reddit

As someone currently living in upminster I feel very seen by this comment.

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quiglter@reddit

On the last point... coming from Brentwood (so just outside London) we also wouldn't refer to Upminster as London. Going to Romford and going to London were VERY different things. Maybe that's changing with the overground lines and I couldn't point to a hard border but yeah lots of those areas don't feel like London.

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oldandinvisible@reddit

Upminster aka the wrong end of the District Line...

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Kitchner@reddit

I mean you're right, it's sort of context though. If you go to Romford a lot then it makes sense to differentiate because there's two different trips (one close and one long). If you lived in Nottingham though and you got sent to Romford with work, you'd likely say "I'm going to London". Likewise what I would wonder is if you moved to Romford, would you describe that as "I'm moving to London"? Again, even if you don't, someone from elsewhere in the UK probably would.

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PatserGrey@reddit

As someone who did move to Romford, I never considered it London. I referred to it as West Essex more than East London. If the tube line actually got there, it would make a massive difference to perceptions in my opinion. Now that it's inside the ULEZ that might change again but I've long since moved out further and only really see it now as the train zips through on my way into the office in Mayfair, actual London.

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Kitchner@reddit

I mean I consider the Elizabeth line as the tube really, so in my mind it is London. I certainly don't count anything in Havering as Essex because it's not, it votes for the London Mayor.

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PatserGrey@reddit

Yeah the Lizzie line wasn't quite ready when we moved away, I believe it's more frequent than the normal trains which were generally every 10 mins iirc but they didn't run very late so a night out could end with a right pain of a return journey which really detracted from the idea of being inside the London boundaries

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Tobmemester@reddit

The trains do come a little bit more frequently these days (when there aren't delays), plus they're a bit bigger. As someone from Harold Wood (so right at the very edge near the boundary) I'd say the Elizabeth line is a cool way to see the edge of Greater London. If you go take the train west then the urban sprawl is pretty contiguous all the way into central London but if you head east towards Brentwood then you almost immediately go into the green belt. It definitely is in a weird spot culturally though. Essex in some ways, London in others.

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AlexSumnerAuthor@reddit

> Likewise what I would wonder is if you moved to Romford, would you describe that as "I'm moving to London"? Yes - because I would never admit to moving to Romford /s

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quiglter@reddit

Maybe, but it's also that it doesn't "feel" like London. Like it actually feels quite similar to Nottingham, as well as a lot of similar towns around London. It's hard to pinpoint why but arriving there doesn't feel like arriving in a city the way arriving in say Edinburgh or Birmingham does even though those cities feel different from London. But I could see that someone who moved from a smaller village near Nottingham feeling like it's London, that's fair.

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Kitchner@reddit

Sure, but that's because you're comparing two different things. You step off the train in Birmingham Central and you're doing the equivalent of stepping off the train in Euston. Stepping off the train in Romford is like stepping off the train in somewhere like Four Oaks, technically it's Birmingham, and if you moved from Brentwood to Four Oaks you'd say you were moving to Birmingham. On the other hand if you lived in Walsall "Birmingham" would refer to the centre of the city, and not Four Oaks.

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xParesh@reddit

I've lived in Romford for several years. Coming from central London, it definitely felt very Essex. Now with the Elizabeth Line and a very different demographics (Londoners priced out from more inner London now seem to be here) it does feel like an East London Town. When I'm in Brentwood and beyond, it definitely has a different vibe and feels more like Essex. A friend of mine from Chelmsford, say's she lives in 'proper Essex' so I guess she's saying the bordering towns of London arent fully Essex.

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Garfie489@reddit

The hard border was actually moved to be the M25 between the A12 and A127 near Brentwood decades ago. Before then it was nearby, but naturally the M25 made it hard for councils so was tidied up a bit. Upminster is a border town - but it is still very much in London.

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Gadget100@reddit

When speaking, how do you distinguish between “city” and “City”? If I heard someone say that, I’d always assume the latter. I might say “I’m going into town” to refer to central London in general.

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ejmd@reddit

People say "the City" when they are referring to the City of London; nobody calls London (or the West End) "the City"; they might say "I'm going into town" or "to the West End" or "up West" to refer to the area between Marble Arch and Holborn, although they might also refer to a specific district — Mayfair, Picadilly, Soho, Bloomsbury, etc.

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officeromnicide@reddit

Most people say "City of London" in opposition to just saying London

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Kitchner@reddit

>When speaking, how do you distinguish between “city” and “City”? Context basically, however if I needed to be really clear I'd actually saying "I'm going into the city, as in The City the city.

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Muswell42@reddit

In my case, if I'm referring to The City as opposed to the city there's an addtional stress on the beginning of each word. Audibly Speaking In Capital Letters Is Very Much A Doable Thing. That said, if I was going into non-City central London I'd say I was going into Town (except that where I live now, Town means St Peter Port).

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ejmd@reddit

Going into the city centre (but not the City!) is going into town, going up west, or going to the West End. Going to the City is quite different as it is east of the West End, but it is not the East End, even though the East End has been considerably smartened up, gentrified, in fact, and is much less dangerous than it used to be. The boundary of the City of London — conveniently marked by dragons and the legend, "Domine nos dirigible" (loosely, "God is our hot-air balloon") — is Chancery Lane in the west, then if you walked from Chancery Lane (you could use tube stations as waypoints, but you wouldn't get an exact boundary, although it would be near enough) to the Barbican, continued on to Liverpool Street and then headed south-east to Aldgate and then south, to the Tower, finally walking west, along the wharves, quays and alley-ways, although the main road of Lower Thames Street and Upper Thames Street would be simpler, doing your best to stay close to the river until you reach the Embankment and the Inns of Court at Temple, then head north, up any street until you reach The Strand, then finally walk east toward Fleet Street until you reach Chancery Lane, you will have circumnavigated the City.

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Civil-Instance-5467@reddit

If you live on the south edge of Greater London and you're going into the centre of the city then you may refer to this as going 'up town' to your fellow south Londoners, they will know exactly what you mean, but you have to call it 'central' when dealing with everyone else

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Upset-Preparation861@reddit

So when referring to London are we referring to it in the same way we say the New York metro area with a population of 20 million people or are we talking about it in the same way we'd just say New York City with the population of 8 million? And what exactly is London proper? What's the difference between greater London, London, and London the city?

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kore_nametooshort@reddit

If someone from the UK asked me where I live I'd say Surrey. If a foreigner asks me ill say London. I'd never say "greater london" though. So I guess it depends.

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IntelligentAd2647@reddit

I live in Somerset, and when I’m abroad and somewhere asks me where I live, I say London. It just saves a lot of explaining.

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Diggerinthedark@reddit

Also in the south. I always used to say 'near Southampton', but since Bournemouth got into the premier league, that seems to be the easier option 😅

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clowncountess@reddit

I still put Surrey on my address but have since learned I'm 100% definitely part of London.... I'll still use Surrey

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Puzzleheaded_Day_895@reddit

Greater London is London. Yes. That's the only answer you need to know.

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jaymatthewbee@reddit

Greater London is an administrative area containing the London boroughs. London metropolitan area is a looser term with no strict definition, but generally refers to the London commuter belt or areas that share London’s infrastructure. The City of London is the central business district which is a city in itself and administratively isn’t part of Greater London.

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jodorthedwarf@reddit

Important to note that the City of London is the way that it is because it sits on the site of the original Londinium and was the only London until the city rapidly expanded during the Early Modern period and the industrial revolution.

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chilldudeohyeah@reddit

Not sure if it's the same case with the city of Manila. Manila has several areas aka "barangays" including one which is called Intramuros (historically the original Manila). In 1975, Metropolitan Manila was created and the sourrounding cities and municipalities are included. Today, whenever someone say they're in Manila, it's uncertain if they're in the capital or in Makati city or Quezon city.

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Engels33@reddit

AND - if someone says London without any qualification then it defaults to the assumption they mean the same as the Greater London definition. ie within one of the 32 boroughs.- Unless it is absolutely evident from context that they mean one of the other definitions.

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MerlinOfRed@reddit

AND - if someone says "the city" without any qualification then it defaults to "the City of London", unless the context shows they are talking about the city as a whole. When reading/writing it's much easier as the word "City" is always capitalised when speaking about the Square Mile, but it's a good rule to go by when speaking.

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overgirthed-thirdeye@reddit

AND London isn't technically a city for the same reasons Reading isn't. Source: Map Men https://youtu.be/Whqs8v1svyo?si=YjOzGmkQbxuN_xY0

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TheMortified1@reddit

So, if someone refers to the 'city', they are not talking about the city of London, but about the City of London, which is the financial district of the city of London, which is not really a city. Indeed, of the city of London and the City of London, neither is a city.

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chilldudeohyeah@reddit

It's literally called the City of London. The financial district one.

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IAmLaureline@reddit

London contains two cities, not just the City of London. City of Westminster as well.

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carlosfandangop@reddit

Originally there were three. Southwark is a city too. There are three cathedrals - St Paul's, Westminster and Southwark.

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Andrew1953Cambridge@reddit

I don't think Southwark has ever been a city. Having a cathedral is neither necessary nor sufficient for city status,

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carlosfandangop@reddit

You may be right, which would be a shame as it's such a good anecdote 😀

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clayalien@reddit

Yeah, the cathedral means nothing, it's just a popular misconception. Historically it's based entirely on the whims of the royalty at the time. Now, it's still an arbitrary process, but by a government department. I think there was a case of a city loosing it's status simply because they didn't get the paperwork done on time, but that may be another misconception.

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richdrich@reddit

"The City" is often used to refer to the UK financial industry (cf Wall Street) but that industry and business in general has long outgrown the City of London and extends from the West End to Canary Wharf, with notable gaps.

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Upper_Release_7850@reddit

happy cake day!

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gardabosque@reddit

The city is one square mile which goes (E to W) from the Temple on the Strand to Tower Bridge and from the Thames to the Barbican.

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Neat-Ostrich7135@reddit

Physically yes. But "the city" was also used to describe the financial hub, which is now split between the city and canary wharf

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chieftain88@reddit

Usually people who work in Canary Wharf don’t say they work in the City, they say the Wharf

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johnsolomon@reddit

I've heard both tbh

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chieftain88@reddit

Fair, it been 5+ years since I was in CW and perhaps it was just the bank I was seconded to

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Itsdickyv@reddit

As an aside, when I worked in CW, I used to enjoy messing with people- sometimes I’d say I worked in Tower Hamlets just to see the revulsion / pity 😂

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chieftain88@reddit

Oi, I currently, temporarily, live in Tower Hamlets 😂. Can confirm it’s not ideal…

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carlosfandangop@reddit

If you want to refer to central London, you say you're going "into town"

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Lambsenglish@reddit

UNLESS they’re actually from London and know that Croydon and London are not the same thing

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NorsePC@reddit

As someone from a London Borough. When someone says London we mean central

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oldandinvisible@reddit

I grew up in a London borough. Central London is/was Town. The Town. I'd have never said "I'm going into London"

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foldy86@reddit

So you don't live in London?

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NorsePC@reddit

Comment

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puccilovesdio@reddit

Don’t you just say “Central”?? Lived in London all my life, always referred to CL as Central.

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mikemystery@reddit

I always liked "Up west" Even tho I lived sarf, then West. T"enders innit?

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Peachk1n@reddit

We always used to say “into town”. I don’t have the first clue why.

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Gypsyklezmer@reddit

Agreed, I live in Muswell Hill. (Used to be a home county in Middlesex) now we’re ’Greater London’ 🫠WTF. If you aren’t within walking distance of a tube station - you’re not in London 🤷🏻‍♀️

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teethteethteeeeth@reddit

Are you seriously suggesting Muswell Hill isn’t London?

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mrsbergstrom@reddit

Muswell Hill is definitely London, but most people there would need to catch a bus to the tube. Most of South London is nowhere near a tube it’s still London, don’t know what yr on about

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allyearswift@reddit

But do you have a London postcode?

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allyearswift@reddit

Well, half the time we mean the city of Westminster …

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FlavTFC@reddit

Additonially, colloquially, if someone says 'Up London' it means the City of London, or anywhere central, and none of the boroughs specifically.

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mh1191@reddit

And if it's an airline, it just means less than a day's travel to London

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GildedCoaster@reddit

And if it's a Yank, it just means any where in GB

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foldy86@reddit

Or Ireland

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Basteir@reddit

London Inverness Airport.

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Round-Loan-2653@reddit

When someone tells me just london i think that means city of london or near central. I live in Kingston and I'll say southwest london, near london or just kingston. I'd never say in London. Kind of wondering what others say now.

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SkandaFlaggan@reddit

I would be fine referring to anywhere in the Greater London area as ”London”. It only becomes slightly iffy when you’re outside the London postal district. I assume your postcode starts with KT?

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Round-Loan-2653@reddit

I'm in KT, I work in Wandsworth and they say near london aswell and thats sw. I am thinking now maybe it's because most of my interactions are with people from greater london and london has so many boroughs itd be too non-specific

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HermitBee@reddit

>The City of London is the central business district which is a city in itself and administratively isn’t part of Greater London. So Greater London is doughnut shaped? Cool fact.

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jamesrustles2022@reddit

Here's a better one, what people refer to as "London" isn't a city at all. It contains two cities, The City of London and the City of Westminster, houses surrounding those two cities just spread over time and all the surrounding towns and villages all kind of melded into one big metropolis, but what people think of as "London" has never actually received a royal charter to officially become a city

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smoulderstoat@reddit

Oh you sweet summer child. If only it were that simple. The ceremonial county of Greater London is doughnut-shaped, because it doesn't include the City of London. But the Greater London Authority (the area governed by the Mayor of London and London Assembly) *does* cover the City. So it is Schrodinger's Doughnut.

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evenstevens280@reddit

Or, if you like, a Schrönut.

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2697920@reddit

Personally I prefer Doughdingers

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heeden@reddit

What does the Lord Mayor of London think of the Mayor of London muscling in on his turf?

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smoulderstoat@reddit

He's still got the mansion and the gold coach, I'm sure he'll be OK.

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ClydusEnMarland@reddit

And the cat.

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Both_Imagination_941@reddit

Non trivial topology, who would have guessed!

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jaymatthewbee@reddit

Yes, although a doughnut with a very small hole as the City of London is only around a square mile in size. I think the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, technically isn’t the Mayor of the City of London.

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Whole_Assumption108@reddit

Yes he is, just as there are mayors of other London boroughs. He is absolutely the Mayor of the whole of London.

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Slight_Armadillo_227@reddit

He isn't. The Lord Mayor of the City of London is a seperate role from the Mayor of London.

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smoulderstoat@reddit

He isn't Lord Mayor of London in the same way that he is not the Mayor of Lambeth or Lord Mayor of Westminster. But he is Mayor of London including the City.

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Slight_Armadillo_227@reddit

Yeah, you're right. I'd misunderstood the role.

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smoulderstoat@reddit

To be fair, they haven't made it easy.

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MerlinOfRed@reddit

Yeah metropolitan area comes from the fact that there's no real international standard for measuring the size of the city because there's no real international definition for a city. For good reason - cities differ radically around the world. If it wasn't for the greenbelt, much of the home counties would have long been agglomerated into London. Nevertheless the leafy Surrey towns, and the less leafy Essex ones, still functionally contribute to the wider London economy in much the same way as they would were they not separated by the greenbelt, and indeed as suburbs of cities like Tokyo do which were once separate settlements. 'Metropolitan area' basically gives a metric to genuinely compare London to similar global cities without the artificial line of the greenbelt making the comparison redundant. For any other purpose it's largely irrelevant.

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mJelly87@reddit

It's like Bournville in Birmingham started as its own separate town, surrounded by fields. Eventually it got swallowed by Birmingham.

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Judge-Dredd_@reddit

> Bournville in Birmingham ... got swallowed by Birmingham. Cadburys chocolate proved irresistable

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IAmLaureline@reddit

'Proved' RIP real Cadbury's.

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Jackmac15@reddit

Londinium is the old Ronam outpost that became London. Londonderry only exists for half the people who live there. London calling is an absolute banger. London is also about a dozen cities in the USA. London-system is a chess option, Google it, holy hell.

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sometingwong934@reddit

There's also a Londonthorpe in Lincolnshire

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ExpressAffect3262@reddit

I work in the local authority and do statutory reporting. I remember seeing 'City of London' in a dataset for the first time and I assumed it's going to be the largest data figure, because it's London. Turns out that City of London was exempt from the data collection reporting, because of how little residential there is.

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smiley6125@reddit

Yeah, they call it the square mile. It has its own police force, whereas the whole of greater London is the Met.

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DiaNoga_Grimace_G43@reddit

…as an addenda the City of London is controlled by a chartered private corporation with its own legal jurisdiction and police force and its own civic officials and Lord Mayor, who is sometimes confused with the elected mayor whose writ doesn’t run in the City…

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Whole_Assumption108@reddit

City of London is administratively part of Greater London, as is the City of Westminster. The Mayor Sadiq Khan is not the Mayor of everywhere except those areas.

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theantiyeti@reddit

I'd argue London has two CBDs, and the one centred on City is larger than City itself. It's really swallowed up a good bit of the North including Holborn, Farringdon, TCR and Soho.

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travelingwhilestupid@reddit

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater\_London](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London)

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Bluffwatcher@reddit

>City of London Where all the taxes that corporations pay get funnelled into British Territory tax havens, instead of into helping our country.

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SnoopyLupus@reddit

It’s Fully dependent on context. But it usually means the whole damn thing.

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horseloverfatty@reddit

And then there’s the rabbit hole city of London .

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oldspicehorse@reddit

Which is separate to the city of Westminster, right?

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Livid-battle-4589@reddit

No. Greater London includes villages and hamlets that are not part of the city of London

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asfasf_sf@reddit

The City of London is 1.12 sq miles with a population of 9k.

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Livid-battle-4589@reddit

Yeah but I didn’t mention the City of London

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PanningForSalt@reddit

Otherwise the say "city of London" 99.9% of the time

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BrillsonHawk@reddit

When i say London i mean anything south of oxford. Most people are using London in the sense of greater London though. I dont imagine most people even know that the City of London is actually tiny

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Apprehensive_Jaguar@reddit

From a northern England perspective, London is usually regarded as within the M25. There are undoubtedly regional differences for those in or close by, but I suspect nobody north of Watford ever refers to Greater London.

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crb11@reddit

From having lived in the area, people immediately north of Watford are in fact much more likely to refer to Greater London as they're inside the M25 but very proud not to be Londoners. I'd be interested in how old you are, as for anyone my age or older, the M25 wasn't there until we were adults, so our mental nmap of London doesn't really include it, so you either get the built up area, the postcode area or perhaps the pre-1965 boundaries. Having lived in three outer boroughs, I was frequently told they weren't really in London by the older generation.

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Xaphios@reddit

As a 35yr old from the southwest - London to me is pretty much inside the m25. I do logically know this isn't the case, but it's what I think of when someone says "London". On the other hand, when I say London I'm normally thinking about the bit in the middle I'd go to for touristy stuff (if I ever got round to bothering to do touristy stuff)

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Volf_y@reddit

That there gurt Londonshire

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Xaphios@reddit

Yarp, not enough apple trees round those parts fer oi.

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FidelityBob@reddit

People immediately north of Watford are inside the M25??!!. I suggest you look at a map.

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Kian-Tremayne@reddit

I usually define London as anything in “the London borough of…” which is pretty much the definition of Greater London. This includes some places that don’t have London post codes - the areas closer to the centre have a postcode starting with a compass direction (e.g. SE in South East London). Out here our post codes start with BR for Bromley, and we habitually put “Kent” on our address, but we’re inside the M25 and pay tribute to our overlord Sadiq Khan as part of our council tax.

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HermitBee@reddit

>From having lived in the area, people immediately north of Watford are in fact much more likely to refer to Greater London as they're inside the M25 but very proud not to be Londoners I think this is a confusion between Watford and the Watford Gap, which is often used as the north-south divide. I suspect the commenter was just using it in a colloquial sense, not realising that Watford is not near the Watford Gap. (Yes, I know there is a different, smaller Watford there)

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Apprehensive_Jaguar@reddit

Yes, this exactly. Maybe I shouldn't have chosen a specific location as an example and stuck with the more generic North and South.

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crb11@reddit

I thought this might be the case, but it was too tempting to point out you'd named probably the place inside the M25 least keen on being lumped in with London! (For some reason, people I've met from Epsom and Ashtead, two of the other towns in the same category, don't seem to get hung up about it so much - maybe because people seem to think they're in Surrey, not London, despite being inside the M25?)

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HermitBee@reddit

>Maybe I shouldn't have chosen a specific location as an example and stuck with the more generic North and South. I think if you'd phrased it as Watford Gap, that's how it would be understood, it's a well understood idiom. It's just a different place to Watford (something I was unaware of until at least my late 20s).

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FlowingFrog04@reddit

Being from Watford, London doesn’t start til you reach Harrow

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Orpheon59@reddit

Having grown up about 3 miles outside the M25, I'd say it's really "cross the M25 and once you're into the continuous built up area you're in London'". There's a fair bit of countryside, and a fair few towns and villages within the M25, but given that they're still separated from the real urban area by legitimate countryside with fields and woods and such, they're not really London. All the same, "within the M25" is a useful short hand.

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Targettio@reddit

Similarly for anyone west of Reading. To me, growing up, London is anything inside the M25. It seems saying this to the people I now know that live/lived inside or near the M25, my boundary definition isn't very welcome. But it's still close enough for me.

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RenePro@reddit

There are a few exceptions. Watford, Chigwell and Dartford amongst them.

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PodcastPlusOne_James@reddit

In casual conversation, it sort of depends what they’re talking about. People usually just say “London” when referring to pretty much anything inside the M25. “Greater London” is usually only used when they want to make absolutely sure you know what they’re referring to. If someone says they’re “visiting London” they almost definitely mean the city of London, somewhere with a tube stop. If they say they’re “from London” it’s probably Greater London. It’s all contextual really

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Smooth-Reason-6616@reddit

I tend to regard the City of London as the areas covered by the EC/ WC postcodes and Greater London as all outside with the SE/SW/NE/NW postcodes

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Garfie489@reddit

There are parts of London without such a postcode, and parts which are not London which do have such a postcode. (thats before mentioning NE is the postcode for Newcastle).

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Smooth-Reason-6616@reddit

I did say that's how I tended to regard the difference between Central London and Greater London. I used to be a courier up there, so quickly hearing the area and postcode over the radio used to let me know quickly if that job could be on a pickup, or whether it was too far off my location to call for.

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Compybulgar08@reddit

Jay foreman has a great video on this

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Big-Finding2976@reddit

If you live in Greater London and say you're going to London, you mean central London.

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leclercwitch@reddit

Genuinely curious if those who like be in Greater London say “I’m going into town” when they mean the centre.

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Big-Finding2976@reddit

Yeah, we do say that.

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Excellent-Mind-6894@reddit

One word look at Manchester, people always say the city Manchester but not greater Manchester

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bestinbuff@reddit

City is the business quarter 1 square mile.soho,Mayfair,Bloomsbury ,Oxford street being examples of the the West end, Westminster is separate , Bow,Clerkenwell , Islington examples of the East end, all collectively known as town not city .

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Clean-Machine2012@reddit

For anyone from outside London, yes, these are the same. Only Londoners care about the difference.

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Mountain_School_845@reddit

I live in “Greater London” with an Essex post code but the borough I live in is a borough of London. Good luck

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Garfie489@reddit

There is no such thing as an "Essex post code". In fact, there is only 1 post code exclusively used by the county - SS - all other postcodes in use within Essex extend into neighbouring counties. Bishop Stortford in Hertfordshire uses a CM (Chelmsford) postcode for example, with Chelmsford being in Essex. SS is the only outlier here, but thats purely due to it being bordered by the Thames and Sea on two sides, with the other sides being other parts of Essex.

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Mountain_School_845@reddit

Obviously what I meant by Essex postcode meant postcodes generally belonging to Essex of which there are The point of my comment is that where I grew up is now classed Greater London where previously it was classed as west Essex

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stepbar@reddit

Then there's the City of London, which is the smallest city in the UK. (Seriously!)

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aultumn@reddit

Wait until OP hears about the City of London 😂😂😂

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Lank_Master@reddit

I live in zone 4, so Greater London. I know I live in London and am a Londoner, but whenever I'm in the city centre I feel like I'm in a completely different place. They are the same place, but feel completely different. The centre just doesn't make me think I'm in my home city.

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Eastern-Annual-9974@reddit

My postcode starts with n so I just put London after the street name. Probably similar to those with nw, e, se, sw, w postcodes. Some bits of Enfield borough for instance would count but if I was in Enfield town (en postcode) I would think Middlesex rather than London. Used to live near Uxbridge but did not consider that as London but more like some outlying town like caterham slough or Chelmsford

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Crowf3ather@reddit

Postcode are shit though. Some towns have postcodes that belong to cities in completely different counties !!

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oldandinvisible@reddit

And loads of greater Portsmouth has Southampton postcode...as does Winchester 😱 Winchester!!! It was once the flaming capital city...

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Eastern-Annual-9974@reddit

Agree there.with you as have also lived once in a place with a postcode from a different country never mind county (TD15 / Tweedmouth). But unless you live up past Chingford most London postcodes are in Greater London and a lot of the places on the outside of what is now Greater London used to be in other counties until the 1960's

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Status_Common_9583@reddit

I don’t disagree having lived in zone 4 myself, but I personally get this general vibe of feeling like I’m not even in the same place from pretty much all different parts of London rather than just where I live vs central. I’ve been based around NW London most of my life and things like my first trip on the DLR and looking around Isle of Dogs before heading further east blew my socks off lol!! It all felt soooooo unfamiliar compared to where I’m used to, it wasn’t clicking that it’s the same city. I’ve always felt different parts of London often have a unique and distinct feel to them, hence why we often grow quite attached to our own little patch and many of us get very fussy about where else we’d actually enjoy living in the city!

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Ps4-Pip@reddit

Greater London is “Greater” and generally better than inner city London

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cyberspacedweller@reddit

Like asking if New York and New York City are the same thing. Answer: No

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ayeokffs@reddit

Fun fact, the mayor of London has to ask permission to get into mini London lol, think of it similar to the Vatican though.

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Shanobian@reddit

Anything inside of the m25 generally is considered London. Greater London is just like a ring of towns on outskirts of London.

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miasmum01@reddit

I live in Greater London xx

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Sultan_of_Fire@reddit

You know when you meet a kid from Milton Keynes on holiday and they say ‘I’m from London’? Thats Greater London for you.

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EvilInky@reddit

I tried explaining to someone in Australia that although Milton Keynes is an hour north of the middle of London by train, it wasn't part of London. In fact, there places in between that are neither London, nor Milton Keynes. They couldn't fathom it.

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richdrich@reddit

In Australia Sydney sprawls over a huge area, and they refer to places like Bankstown as Sydney. (Hence you'll often hear about large bushfires in Sydney and Melbourne - that doesn't mean the CBD is alight, they're talking about outer rural areas. Although it was pretty freaky when the sky was fully red and the sun looked like an orange moon).

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Upper_Release_7850@reddit

happy cake day!

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Taran345@reddit

No be fair, Luton and Stansted are both considered “London” airports! Plus Corby, Northampton and Kettering are considered commuter towns

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Sultan_of_Fire@reddit

Sort of like Americans who think you can walk to Edinburgh from London

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Wolfblood-is-here@reddit

I mean, you *can*. Bring snacks, make a month of it.

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Sultan_of_Fire@reddit

I guess. Maybe bring first aid on the way

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Sultan_of_Fire@reddit

I guess. Maybe bring first aid on the way

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hnsnrachel@reddit

I'm from Milton Keynes. I have never once said or heard anyone else from MK say we're from London. I usually say "not that far from London" only if someone expresses confusion about where that is and in my experience that's what most people from MK do. Usually then people go on to tell others we're from London (I can't tell you how many times exactly that happened when I lived overseas). Wevcertainly among ourselves don't consider it to be London, just a London commuter city with all of the London downsides and few if any of the benefits (and a bit more greenery)

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Imicrowavebacon@reddit

Am from Luton and it's the same story except with even more confusion over the fact that our airport has London in its name for some stupid reason

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RFRMT@reddit

Don’t forget the abundance of milk and beans… that’s a benefit in my book.

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Bug_Parking@reddit

I was once talking/chatting up a local girl in Prague when she mentioned she'd had a boyfriend in London. Had to stop myself from scoffing when I asked what part and the response was 'Bournemouth'.

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Weatherwitchway@reddit

Me old china, London hasn’t been the same thing for a very long time.

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designerste@reddit

Greater London includes all of the shit holes surrounding the capital shit hole 💩

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falinksditto@reddit

Greater London is the county that contains London and it's boroughs

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chips700@reddit

I've lived in London my whole life and this comment thread has made me realise I'm not even clear on the rules 😂 Basically though: 'London' : Anywhere within the TFL zones, so greater London and some areas that definitely don't count and yet the locals are absolutely sure they live in London. 'The City': geographically speaking this is specifically the square mile (aka The City of London), but can also be a catch all for financial service institutions, despite the fact that a lot of these are actually in Canary Wharf now which is a completely different area of London 'Into Town/Into the City/Central London': in reality Mostly refers to the area between Charing Cross and Marylebone. This includes Mayfair, The West End, Covent Garden, the squares, Oxford and regent street etc. This is the bit youre probably aiming for if you are going into the city for a purpose other than work. Hope this helps!

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KingPizzaCrust@reddit

Both shitholes, yes

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DiaNoga_Grimace_G43@reddit

…Effectively the border of London proper is its circling M25 motorway completed in the late 1980s. However there are adjoining commuter-rich boroughs such as Croydon and Hillingdon outside it that are effectively adjuncts to London, so the ‘Greater London’ tag applies to them and pars of Kent and Essex as well. The whole metropolitan area collectively is approximately eight million population…

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Garfie489@reddit

The border of "london proper" is Greater London. M25 came after that. Greater London is a county. By definition, it can not apply to parts of Essex or Kent.

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DiaNoga_Grimace_G43@reddit

…Incorrect. The Greater London Authority jurisdiction was established long after the M25 became the de-facto border for London.

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Garfie489@reddit

The "Greater London Authority" has nothing to do with the geographical boundary of Greater London. In the same sense Essex council has nothing to do with the boundary of Essex - Thurrock for example does not come under Essex council, but is in the county of Essex. The boundary of Greater London was set in 1963, coming into force in 1965. Planning for the M25 formerly started around 1966 (exact times uncertain as it was actually a combination of multiple abandoned projects) and was completed between 1975 - 1986. I am certainly not incorrect.

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DiaNoga_Grimace_G43@reddit

…Incorrect, Child. That is its jurisdiction across the local authorities recognized as living within the Greater London Metropolitan Area. It is more complex than you seem to comprehend.

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Deckard2022@reddit

I mean. I say I live in London, but I don’t live central London. What’s the difference? Zone 1 travel.

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Salty-Ice8161@reddit

Who cares they are both shitholes

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AdLegitimate548@reddit

One is great and one is london

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dynorodfeelings@reddit

All is London is shit london.

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leclercwitch@reddit

I’m in the north and this really interests me. So you have Manchester and Greater Manchester. Greater Manchester is all your areas around the city of Manchester such as Salford, Trafford, Wigan, Bolton etc but just “Manchester” is the city itself. So as someone who doesn’t have a clue, I’d assume it’s the same. “London” is the city of London whereas “Greater London” is the boroughs around it, such as Lambeth, Croydon, Hackney etc.

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ElectronicHeat6139@reddit

Wow. There are so many different ways that people interpret this. Must say that I've never really thought of the North/South Circular road as delineating London and Greater London, but I can see how it works for folks. For me, I've tended to think of all the inner London postcodes prefixed E, EC, N, NW, SE, SW, W and WC as places that have been considered part of London 'for a long time' and therefore 'London' and the outer London boroughs, that have been swallowed up more recently as 'Greater London'. The difference can be whether the previous county name can be used/accepted almost interchangeably with 'London Borough of ...' e.g. Ilford, Essex or Southall, Middlesex.

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Willeth@reddit

As with many questions in life, I go to comedian Jay Foreman for answers. https://youtu.be/UAusbJmRB0c

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philster666@reddit

Love Jay’s stuff 👏

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Judge-Dredd_@reddit

I go to Terry Pratchett - Odegra,

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elenajoanaustin@reddit

This was so interesting! I grew up in Burnt Oak (LB of Barnet) and we ALWAYS used to write our address as Middlesex. I had no idea it was abolished in 1965!

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glaxay5000@reddit

Was going to suggest this guy

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Man_of_Mayhem1603@reddit

No. Just like Manchester and Greater Manchester are not the same, neither is London and Greater London. One is the city, the other is the larger metropolitan area

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Gorilla_Pie@reddit

Effectively, yes… Greater London is basically the county/administrative area in which most of London sits… though it also sprawls into the edges of Essex, Kent and the other ‘Home Counties’ that surround it…

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Erilaziu@reddit

The parochialism of the isles means that what someone means by London may change based on what street they live in even within the same borough of Greater London; in some areas people will fervently insist that they do not live in London despite having been born and raised there their whole lives

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Environmental_Clock6@reddit

Not seen a comment on City of Westminster

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Double_Message6701@reddit

Only people in Greater London say they live in London. People who actually live in London tell you the Borough. I live in Marylebone. Southall isn't fucking London, neither is Croydon, Dalston, anywhere in Essex, or anything past Shoreditch.

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knickgooner11@reddit

This definition doesn’t make any sense

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False_Cod_1432@reddit

Dalston is like 15 min north of the City?

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Neat_Cress2620@reddit

London is London city. Greater London is the entire London area

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Lvlookbook@reddit

It’s like New York, there’s Manhattan (central London) then the five boroughs (greater London)

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Livid-battle-4589@reddit

No. One is greater than the other

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Bidoofinshmerts@reddit

The city of London is very small at 2.9 km and grater London is everything else

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FudgeNorth9457@reddit

Depends on context. I live in greater London (zone 4). I say I live "in London" but have also used "going into London" to mean going into Central London. Usually it means the whole thing.

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Mundane_Elk8878@reddit

as an american living here, i have no interest in this bullshit tbh. great britain vs the UK? you people are fucking whack.

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No-Relation1122@reddit

My breakdown if I'm talking to someone; London = any part of the city, the centre and greater. This is then broken down into north, east, south east, south west, and west (as a south west Londoner) on a "local" level. Central = the classic touristy parts of London (about a 5 mile radius of any major tourist attraction). Westend = specifically the theatre district of central. The City = business/finance.

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Eastern-Wave-5454@reddit

Nah. We’re the cooler london.

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beoffendedyoulllive@reddit

As someone who was born in Greenwich, they’re two different things to me. I don’t consider Greenwich “London”. It’s outer London to me, so Greater London. Places like Westminster, Kensington, Lambeth etc are London to me. Then you’ve got the “London Borough” of havering…. Which is Essex. In no way whatsoever do I consider any of Essex to be London. There’s the same in Kent, the “London borough” of Bromley or Bexley. I grew up in Greenwich, have family in Essex and Kent, now live in Kent, and to me neither Kent or Essex are Greater London. Having lived in all three places, the addresses are even ‘Greenwich, London”, “X, Essex” and “X, Kent”. I hate London 😂

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Perfect-Height-8837@reddit

I always took London to mean the busy part before you get to the normal houses and streets, and Greater London to include the parts where people hope to increase their house values by claiming to live in London, even if it takes 1 hour to drive there.

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Garfie489@reddit

Greater London by definition includes most of the busy part - just not the square mile in the center of it. Westminster, Waterloo, Canary Wharf, etc are all Greater London.

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Perfect-Height-8837@reddit

It says [here](https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Wharf#:~:text=Canary%20Wharf%20is%20a%20major,the%20UK%2C%20One%20Canada%20Square.) that Canary Wharf is in the region of London, which is in Greater London.

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Garfie489@reddit

Yes, that doesnt discount what i said. London is Greater London + City of London. The point i am making is that a lot of London is Greater London, not just the outskirts - but it is thus also all London.

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Perfect-Height-8837@reddit

Ok. I don't think anyone was in any doubt that London is in Greater London. The question is essentially, where does London within-Greater-London end and Greater London itself begin. And I bet there are a lot of people whose addresses are not officially in Greater London but who will say so for bragging rights and property values. Like, everyone in Essex, for example.

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Garfie489@reddit

> where does London within-Greater-London end and Greater London itself begin. It doesnt. The only non Greater London part of London is the City of London - otherwise, the borders of Greater London and London are the same. No addresses are officially in Greater London. Addresses "officially" being in counties is simply not a thing that exists in the 21st century. No addresses officially contain "Greater London", and hilariously London as a post town actually extends beyond London... because its not based upon geography. By definition, you can not be in Essex and be in Greater London - they are separate counties, their border can be walked along as a single line (though not entirely legally or practically) and they have no overlap.

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Accomplished_Nail_52@reddit

That’s incorrect your statement I would say , in your context it means the whole city especially when it’s referring the population etc. Also depends on your context I live in Greater London and when say we’re going “london” it means going to central London

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Cartepostalelondon@reddit

The City of London is what *Americans* or people who have consumed too much American media call 'The Central Business District'.

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Thrillho_135@reddit

I work in Sutton. It's kinda London but also kinda Surrey. The boundaries are weird

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CPM100@reddit

Yep same shit hole

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Mjukplister@reddit

If someone is going on holiday to London you assume it’s fairly central zone 1-2 Whereas Greater London is just the term for the large land mass . Noones is going on holiday to Enfield or Ruislip

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RomfordGeeza@reddit

Greater London is basically everything inside the M25 and is where the 8.8 million live. Those are the London boroughs.

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Jazzberry81@reddit

So, this is quite confusing There is an administrative area called greater London that is the 32 London boroughs plus the city of London area inside (which is not a borough) There is also a ceremonial county of greater London (the 32 boroughs) and the city of London So greater London both includes and excludes the city of London depending which is being referred to. In reality the standard person probably doesn't know it or consider the difference when talking in daily language. On forms with drop down boxes, the choice is usually greater London or city of London Greater London also includes inner and outer London, definitions of which vary and inner may or may not include the city of London depending if you are thinking statutory or statistical definitions. Up London/London, to a londoner, usually means the central part of London, think zone 1 on the tfl map. London from outside London, is probably most places inside the M25, but again if they are going "into London", it is probably the central zone. Clear as mud?

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trto888@reddit

Greater London — can be colloquially called London but never on written address form: includes anyone without a directional postcode (e.g., TW, UB, RG, CR) London: Directional postcodes (E, N, SW, etc) The city: EC1 postcodes — My two biggest pet peeves 1. When someone from Hayes, Uxbridge, Croydon, etc put “London” as their town or city in the field. This is wrong. London is the county. 2. When people from London write Stratford, Hackney, Battersea etc as their town or city. Again, this is wrong! This is your borough. Your town/city is London. London is also your county. People on the outskirts love confusing posts by writing London, and people in London like denying London. 😂 whyyyy Just write as Royal Mail does. JUST. WRITE. AS. ROYAL. MAIL. DOES. 😭😂

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paulskinner88@reddit

London is a generic term and doesn’t really exist. You’ve either got the City of London or Greater London. Even Greater London could be argued not to exist. Realistically, London usually refers to both the City of London AND the 32 London boroughs. But even that definition is complicated because Epping Forest is City of London land, and definitely isn’t part of generic London. Basically, London doesn’t exist.

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Garfie489@reddit

Greater London is a county defined by law. It definitely exists.

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Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

London is a city and is located in a county called Greater London. There are lots of other boroughs in this county as well as the city of London. When people say they're going to London, they mean the city. If you were going to Croydon or Chelsea or Bromley for example, you wouldn't say you were going to London. New York is exactly the same. When people say they're going to New York, they mean the city. If you were going to Niagra Falls or Buffalo or Albany for example, you wouldn't say you were going to New York, even though they're cities in New York State.

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Garfie489@reddit

Small correction - London is the combination of two counties. The City of London is not a Borough of Greater London, but rather a county in its own right (due to weird history).

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krumplisteszta_@reddit

I think greater london refers to the areas that weren't originally part of london, but became part of london when it was expanded

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SingleIndependence6@reddit

In most contexts it means all of Greater London, but you have the City of London which is a very small part of Central London, it is the Original part of London.

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ireallydontcareforit@reddit

In American it's a synonym for England.

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twostrawberryglasses@reddit

Since moving up North, people call me a Londoner which is strange because that meant people from central when I was growing up. People would often be like "you can't call yourself a Londoner," when I lived in Greater London so it's odd to hear.

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Deformedpye@reddit

Personally if someone says London they are talking about the city of London. I live in Croydon which is part of greater London. If I go to Brixton I wouldn't say I'm going to London. I'm going to Brixton. If I'm going to Crawley I wouldn't say I'm going to West Sussex.

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quotidianjoe@reddit

Yes, it’s like London but greater.

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HeartCrafty2961@reddit

I think the The City of London is the old area roughly based on the site of the Roman Londinium, and was the original city, protected by an encircling wall back in the day. This is nowadays the financial centre and while many people commute, few actually live there. Greater London is the 32 boroughs which were originally villages outside the city which spread into each other over time. Metropolitan London includes areas of hoards of people who commute into the City and other London areas like Docklands. I live around 25 miles west of London, but we are now part of the tube network since the Elizabeth line opened and may get swallowed up in time as part of Greater London. People in Birmingham (UK) don't seem to realise it, but when the HS2 high speed rail project gets built, they'll get swallowed up too. And they're 120 miles away.

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Far_Cup5691@reddit

Anything from Luton downwards is basically London

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asmeile@reddit

Or the third option, people who say they are Londoners but actually mean they are from anywhere in the south east

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B3HammondGuy@reddit

No, but “London” and “shit hole” are.

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Livewire____@reddit

No. Greater London is better, which is why its called that. The clue is in the name.

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PsychologicalPea4129@reddit

If you are in “Greater London”, people might talk about going into central london; if you are in central London, people talk about travelling to zone x outside London. Only people outside London talk about Greater London.

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sacro_sankt@reddit

Simply put no!!

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MajorYou9692@reddit

Well, I live in greater London but describe it as the suburbs...

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ZBaocnhnaeryy@reddit

Greater London is the wider city, however the “City of London” is a small borough in the centre. The term London almost ALWAYS refers to Greater London, and whenever people talk about the “City of London” borough, they say it’s full name to differentiate.

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practicallyperfectuk@reddit

If you work in finance then the city is the most important bit 😂

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RetroRowley@reddit

Time for a bit of YouTube content https://youtu.be/UAusbJmRB0c?si=OXScVs1HCsjv7gxe https://youtu.be/LrObZ_HZZUc?si=H6hoFll2EzM-w1ML https://youtu.be/z1ROpIKZe-c?si=8bzqhm8bD_ocRKP0

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0ctach0r0n@reddit

If you’re being sensible, anything inside the M25 or Greater London will suffice as London, unless you live inside the postcodes SW, NW, N, E or SE and want to annoy those who live in London but don’t live inside those postcodes, in which case you claim it only includes them. If you’re really clever you can say it’s only anything within hearing of Bow bells.

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Abject_Passenger2510@reddit

As a lot have people have said, it depends on context. London Gatwick Airport is in West Sussex, London Luton Airport is in Bedfordshire and London Stansted Airport is in Essex. However, London Heathrow is in London because it's in The London Borough of Hounslow. Not forgetting London City Airport, which isn't in the City of London but is, in fact, also in the London Borough of Newham.

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Motor_Astronomer_157@reddit

Yes same sort of. I live in London borough, have London telephone number and Surrey address.

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TargetEducational330@reddit

London innit

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BodybuilderMoist7435@reddit

They’re all Islamabad so who cares

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sammiedodgers@reddit

It's all the same thing.

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Plenty_Suspect_3446@reddit

Depends on the context but when someone says London I generally it to mean Greater London.

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travelingwhilestupid@reddit

I assume they mean Zones 1&2

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NoTrouble7349@reddit

By that logic places like Greenwich, Wembley, Tottenham, wimbep

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allyearswift@reddit

Wembley has a Harrow postcode, so no.

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NoTrouble7349@reddit

The London Borough of Harrow isn’t London?

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spanners101@reddit

I see Harrow as part of what is today Greater London. I was born there many years ago and we just always called it part of London

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captain-carrot@reddit

As a non-londoner, to me this is anything inside the M25

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JohnnySchoolman@reddit

The City = City of London Central London = Cities of London and Westminster London = Inside of the Circular Ringroad Greater London = Inside the M25 London Southend Airport = Closer to France that London

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mrsuperjolly@reddit

I live on the outskirts of London and will refer to it as London, greater London or the outskirts of London. It'd be weird to call central London greater London. Even if it's technically included. Since In conversation you tend to say it to specify.

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KingofCalais@reddit

Normally, yes. By default, London with no qualifiers means Greater London. People who specify that they mean Greater London are trying to differentiate from The City of London, which is its own city within a city.

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Striking-Giraffe5922@reddit

Greater London is everything apart from the square mile of the city of London

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I_WANT_SAUSAGES@reddit

Greater London is even better.

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PrinceRobotVI@reddit

This is a really fun video about the complexities of London: https://youtu.be/LrObZ_HZZUc?si=gmBpX1GW-X6dUScM

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Candid-Finish-7347@reddit

I live in Richmond. People still say it's Surrey. It's actually Greater London. But if anyone asks.... I'm from landan!!!!

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jimmy_jim1984@reddit

'Twats' and 'More twats'. It is the same thing

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Ancient-Ninja2317@reddit

Greater London is better. It’s so great, I love it!

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shesaveloce@reddit

Whatever it is, I just wish there was a standard definition because it would make filling in forms a lot easier.

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Identifiable2023@reddit

What I consider London varies with the context, but very rarely would I consider the outer London boroughs as London, though of course they are. If I were, for example going to Barnet I would say ‘I’m going to Barnet’ not ‘I’m going to London’. In fact the other day I took my kids to the Tower of London and due to a train strike I had to change my travel plans. If you asked me how I got there I would say ‘I drove to Barnet and took the tube into London’ which is how I think of it

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mrsbergstrom@reddit

A lot of people who live in the outer boroughs don’t consider themselves Londoners, people from Croydon, Havering, Bromley, even though they are London boroughs. That might just apply to long term residents though, I guess transplants are more likely to cling to ‘technically being London’ than families who’ve lived in the area since it was Essex or whatever

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Xem1337@reddit

I dunno, when I talk about London I tnink of Central London as its nice there, the rest of London seems to be wank

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anguavonuberwaldd@reddit

I always thought the city of London was the old inner city dating back to the days of the Romans/Normans. Greater London is the rest of it out side that, when it grew to swallow all the towns and villages outside. Only what I thought I may be totally wrong.

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Hunter037@reddit

I live about 2 hours outside of London by road. If someone said they were going "to London", like for work or a visit, I would assume they meant central London, like zones 1-2. If someone said they were "from London" or "live in London" that could be any part of greater London.

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Conaz9847@reddit

No, one is greater than

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fatherknight@reddit

Sort of yes. Greater London refers to all burrows of London and covers a large area around the city and its suburbs. Just saying the word London generally people are referring generically to the overall thing. If someone where to specify the city of London they are likely referring to the square mile, a corporate controlled area of central London containing a lot of its historic sites (St Paul's, Tower of london, bank of England).

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Acrylic_Starshine@reddit

London is within the m25 ring thing

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OldDirtyBusstop@reddit

As a Londoner I would use the word to mean specifically Westminster, Camden or London (city)

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GreyStagg@reddit

I'm generally referring to that s-hole somewhere in the south of England that I avoid at all costs.

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Comfortable_Swan4206@reddit

Yes London and Greater London are generally the same thing. You very rarely see anyone use the term “Greater London” or “I’m from Greater London”. No one would say that, they would simply just say they are from London. However, if you are speaking to someone in Greater London and they say for example they are going in to London it would simply just mean they are going in to Central London.

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PhoneRegrets@reddit

I would imagine many people outside London imagine the bits in the middle, and not necessarily some of the really boring suburb areas. But for sure folks in London itself would take it to mean Greater London. And if you're in Greater London and someone who doesn't know the difference asks where you're from then saying London is fine and the correct answer. You can picture them imagining you live a 15m walk away from tower bridge but that's fine.

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spiritofbuck@reddit

Greater London is a bigger London where giants live

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Illustrious-Mind2338@reddit

As no far west countrier I’d say “going to london” largely to mean anywhere inside the M25. Then get more specific and say London is the built up bit inside the M25. If not say “I’m doing to Wandsworth” or “I’m off to Clapham for the day”. I’d say “I’m going to London”.

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ReaceNovello@reddit

London is IN Greater London. Like New York City is in New York State

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computer_says_N0@reddit

Yes because the city of London is tiny

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Neat-Ostrich7135@reddit

Yes, there is "the city of London" which is a small bit in the middle. Then there are all the London boroughs, which extend almost to the m25 motorway. London, Greater London, metropolitan London refers to all this. And even the city of westminster, which has been swallowed by London.

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Middle--Earth@reddit

There's the City of London and the City of Westminster, and everything else is a suburb of London.

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faddybasilisk09@reddit

Greater London includes the suburbs and city centre, London is the generalistic term, and The City of London is the city centre

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Big_Hornet_3671@reddit

Don’t forget there is inner London too! Personally I think London starts feeling like the burbs of anywhere else once out in z4 and beyond with only red buses giving it away that it’s London you’re living near. Ergo you may as well go and live somewhere nice in zone 6 than somewhere shite in 3/4. Zone 2 typically the only one outside of central that still feels like a city and is very close to the action.

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budgester@reddit

I tend to think we have 3 different boundaries inside the circle line, inside the north/south circular, inside the M25.

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SnooCapers938@reddit

Depends. There are multiple definitions of ‘London’ depending on context. At one extreme there is the City of London, which is the ancient heart of the city, still somewhat self-governing but only about a square mile in size and with a population of less than 10,000 At the other is Greater London, which is an administrative area of the 32 London Boroughs (plus the City of London) and is 600 sq miles in size and has a population of nearly 9 million. Someone who just says ‘London’ will probably mean the second (almost certainly not the first) but there are some parts of Greater London that some locals will not consider to be ‘really’ part of London (even though they are for administrative purposes) - outer London boroughs like Hillingdon, Sutton, Merton, Havering and Barnet have a weird sort of ‘in between’ status. I was born in Hillingdon but Londoners laugh if I say I’m from London.

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creditnewb123@reddit

If you draw a rectangle that goes through Barbican, Angel, Victoria park and the Thames, everything inside the square is London. The rest of the U.K. is Greater London.

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BigNoo@reddit

City of London is not part of the UK and doesn't come under the Crown.

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dipnoi76@reddit

Greater London = ULEZ London = congestion charge City of London = central bit around Tower of London that has its own police and stuff. The city = bankers

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azlan121@reddit

London and greater London can be the same thing, but not usually, outside of paper exercises/statistics, I would say, most people mean something roughly akin to TFL fare zones 1-3 or 1-4 when they say London, once you start to get pased the very dense urban area, out into the suburbs, people are more likely to start using the names of the actual area they are traveling to, and to treat that place as its own destination rather than just a part of london. Realistically, when most people say London, I think in their heads, they are usually thinking of Westminster, the city of London, and the inner parts of Camden and Southwark That said, I grew up in the South East, and live in London, so I'm probably biased towards seeing outer London as Not-really-London.

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Djinjja-Ninja@reddit

To me the literal definitions from when I lived there are along the lines of. Greater London - all of the London boroughs, so pretty much out to the M25 or zone 5. London - out to the North/South circular/zone 3 Central London - Zone 1 City of London - The square mile. But talking to anyone outside of London I would assume they mean Greater London when they say London.

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Wishmaster891@reddit

what about zone 6

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Djinjja-Ninja@reddit

Not London. You're out to places like Kent proper for Zone 6.

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Wishmaster891@reddit

I live in Bexley and part of that is in zone 6. So it is London lol..

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Muswell42@reddit

Zone 6 is London boroughs, though.

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Djinjja-Ninja@reddit

I'll recognise Orpington as being in London over my cold dead body!

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Muswell42@reddit

Oyster goes out to Zone 9; Gatwick is in zone 14 and is a little Oyster bubble.

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Djinjja-Ninja@reddit

Wow shows how long it's been. I didn't realise there was any more actual zones. Is it any line that goes into London?

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Muswell42@reddit

London Borough of Bromley, mate...

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Djinjja-Ninja@reddit

Weirdly, despite me having lived in Bromley for a good 4 or 5 years a (long) while ago and working in Orpington for even longer I don't think I ever registered that. And I just realised that it is inside the M25 as well... Fuck me. I may have to re-evaluate everything!

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___a1b1@reddit

Surbiton is zone 6 although that is a revenue grab.

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elvpak@reddit

As a Londoner I still refuse to accept places like Romford, Croydon etc as parts of London!

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CaptainPedge@reddit

As far as most people are concerned, yes. Anyone who points out the difference is usually just being a prick

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kwentongskyblue@reddit

Bring back Middlesex!

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Happy_Boy_29@reddit

London is anywhere with in 125 miles 2 hours drive of the M25, innit ?

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madboater1@reddit

https://youtu.be/LrObZ_HZZUc?feature=shared

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Sublime99@reddit

when someone says it I think of greater London but again, depends on context.

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TheRealJustSean@reddit

When I say London it cam be anything from the city centre to as far as Oxford or Essex. But then I'm from the North so it's all London down there.

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MahatmaAndhi@reddit

I think it's anything inside the M25.

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grafeisen203@reddit

As someone who lives in the Midlands but has to commute to or near to London fairly often for work, as far as I'm concerned anything inside the M25 is "London"

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Sad_Cardiologist5388@reddit

Yeah I was excited to be meeting the mayor of London a few years ago then I found out he was the lord mayor of London who just covers the city of London only. Turns out I'd never heard of him.

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SecretHipp0@reddit

Are you saying you would've been excited to meet Sadiq Khan? Loool

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Sad_Cardiologist5388@reddit

I have a very boring life, id probably be excited to meet the manager of my local KFC

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SecretHipp0@reddit

So would I tbf

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dwair@reddit

South of Cambridge and East of Oxford. That's all London if you are from a different part of the country.

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inspectorgadget9999@reddit

I'm from Bristol, so anywhere east of Reading is London, IMHO

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quellflynn@reddit

yes, to everyone who lives in the UK, except if you live in greater london.

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HashDefTrueFalse@reddit

If someone says "London" without any modifier, I'll generally assume they mean Greater London. If they say "London" but "Greater London" is or has been mention too, I will assume they mean the City of London. So it's context dependent IME. Lots who work in the City say "the City" and leave London out all together, so then it's easier (IMO). I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "London Metropolitan Area" in conversation, but maybe I don't have the kind of titillating discourse others do ;D

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LukasKhan_UK@reddit

I like that you went to the trouble of looking at Wikipedia, but couldn't Google the answer to your question >The present-day City of London covers an area of 1.1 square miles (2.9 square km) at the heart of Greater London and is a centre of world finance. Greater London forms the core of a larger metropolitan area (with a proportionately larger population) that extends as far as 45 miles (70 km) from the centre

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TheHelpfulRecruiter@reddit

As a lifelong Londoner, I'm not sure I agree. See for me, 'The City' is the square mile, but it would be wild to say that Big Ben, Westminster, The West End and Buckingham Palace are Greater London, and not London itself. I'll say 'city' when I'm talking about the financial district, London when I'm talking about anywhere in Zone 1, and Greater London for anything in the M25x

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smoulderstoat@reddit

Yeah, it would be odd to say that the Tower of London isn't in London.

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Garfie489@reddit

> London and Greater London are the same thing. Not quite. London is usually considered to be the City of London + Greater London. From a land area POV, Greater London is basically all of London - but we do need to clarify that the city is definitely in London.

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someSortOfWhale@reddit

No, ones greater than the other.

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RepublicofPixels@reddit

If someone said "I'm from London", I'd assume Greater London including all boroughs. If someone said they were going to London, I'd assume they were going to somewhere within the A roads from Woolwich to Kensington, with a few exceptions on both sides of the road. If a tourist was talking about London, I'd assume they'd be going within the ring of A roads from Buckingham Palace to Tower Bridge, again some exceptions.

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johimself@reddit

The City of London is a city. Westminster is a city next door. This is factual information. Everything else is Greater London. Anecdotally... I lived in Camden in Zone 2. I told people who lived in other parts of the country that I lived in London. I considered myself a Londoner. I told other Londoners that I lived in Camden. I referred to The City of London as "The City" If someone from the outer reaches of Greater London described themselves as a Londoner, living in London, I would raise an eyebrow, but let them off on a technicality. I think this attitude is the reason people who live in London are often considered elitist 😆

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SupaiKohai@reddit

Technically yes, colloquially no

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TheHelpfulRecruiter@reddit

For me 'The City' is the square mile, 'London' is everything in TFL zone 1, and Greater London is anything inside the M25.

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Realistic-River-1941@reddit

Depends on context. But without any context, probably. When some provincial moans about London, they probably aren't especially invested in the precise status of Romford or Sutton.

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Kitchen-Plant664@reddit

It’s a Russian doll of different boroughs and cities within cities.

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sammy_zammy@reddit

If outside of London, “London” refers to anywhere in Greater London. If inside Greater London, “London” refers to specifically the central bit.

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furrycroissant@reddit

Yes and no. London is inside the m25, greater London is the belt outside of that.

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Garfie489@reddit

This is entirely wrong. The only settlement in Greater London outside the M25 is North Ockendon.... and it's barely a village. Greater London existed before the M25, and is not defined by it (except for small stretches of border where it was realigned for simplicity's sake).

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furrycroissant@reddit

I consider anywhere on the tube map but outside of the m25, to be greater London. Amersham, for example. But ok, we disagree!

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Garfie489@reddit

> I consider Geography is not a matter of your personal opinion, it is a matter of factual boundaries.

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cranbrook_aspie@reddit

Yes, for most people in most contexts they’re the same, London refers to anything within one of the London boroughs that make up Greater London (plus the City of London, which is a tiny ancient administrative area in the very centre comprising London’s extent in the Middle Ages, and isn’t technically a borough but is basically one for most purposes).

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Lessarocks@reddit

Yes they are the same thing. If you’re in a London borough, you’re in London. It doesn’t matter whether that’s a central borough like Westminster or an outer one like Merton. They are all London.

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Ill_Refrigerator_593@reddit

This video might help- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whqs8v1svyo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whqs8v1svyo)

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Shielo34@reddit

I just KNEW they would be Jay Foreman videos

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furrycroissant@reddit

Map men map men map map men men

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TheLoneSculler@reddit

Lemme guess, is one of then the Unfinished London video about the Greater London Boundary?

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Bring_back_Apollo@reddit

London normally means inner London, including the City of London. However, London may just be the nebulous blob of Greater London and the City of London. It could also just mean Greater London. Rarely, it means the City of London.

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Fukthisite@reddit

There is the City of London which is it's own little ancient thing, and then London which surrounds it.

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AdjectiveNoun111@reddit

Anything in Zone1 is definitely London. By the time you get to Zone5/6 you're not really in London anymore. Bromley, Uxbridge, Surbiton, Barnet e.t.c are techincally in the Greater London area but don't really feel like London Proper. So somewhere between Zones 1 & 5 there is a theoretical boundary where you cross from proper to not quite, I don't exactly know where it is, but it might be the North Circular which I'm convinced was built on ancient lay lines.

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Shielo34@reddit

Varies depending on who you talk to. Broadly if an area is covered by a London Borough then it’s London. This is usually within the M25 but not always. A handy way would be to check the ULEZ map.

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Jonography@reddit

I live in London and I consider "London" in most contexts as referring to the 32 boroughs + "City of London", the ceremonial county. I believe this is also pretty much the definition of "Greater London". You get all sorts of opinions on it which for some reason get people quite heated, but I like to take a straight forward approach.

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BobbyB52@reddit

I live in London in Zone 2/3 , and I think of Greater London when I hear the word. But that may be because I work in emergency services, and so am often involved in things on the boundaries of Greater London as much as I am in central.

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bellasmithh6@reddit

Greater London's generally the default when someone mentions London. Yet, London feels more like zone 2 or 3 for me. It's all about the vibe.

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999worker@reddit

When I think of London I think of central London, within maybe zone 2 or 3 on the tube system. I'd say greater London is anything anything within the m25 and the boroughs. I know someone who lives in Hackney and I feel like they live in London. But my friend in Croydon feels like greater London.

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