Black American female thinking about relocating to Malaysia
Posted by Rockstar_kinda@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 140 comments
The political situation in the US is giving me anxiety. I don't feel safe around so many angry people. I am a Black, American female, 60 years old and I have a decent retirement income. I am qualified for a Golden visa if I want it. I plan to rent out my home in Florida so I can have a place to return to if needed. I a lot of people recommend Malaysia. They tell me that the people are nice, people are not deeply into politics, people are multi national so my race is not a huge deal, I can live well on my income and have household help, and English is widely spoken. First question: Is this true? Please openly tell me your opinions.
I am retired. I am a global traveler so I realize that I will have culture schock. I want to learn the local language - it seems ridiculous to me to not try to assimilate. I am a practicing christian. Second question. Will discrimination and misogynists be a big problem?
I have a good idea of the type of place that I want to live. I don't think I want to live in KL or Penang. I am not a big city type of person - too loud and busy. I do not want to live in a huge skyscraper. I do not want to live on the coast. I want a modern place with air conditioner. I plan to visit and check things out. I can't figure out where to start? Third question. If I have a month, a couple of suggestions of a couple of areas that I should look at? YouTube and the Internet only talks about KL and Penang. Thank you.
rookietrader_85@reddit
As a black person who lived in Malaysia for 9 years I would discourage you from moving there. They are inherently racist towards black people and you will be racially profiled when looking for a place to stay and even opening a bank account.
imbetweeneverything@reddit
Malaysian here, unfortunately it’s the truth as I’ve seen how my black friends were treated..
Icy_Importance_20@reddit
Well not only Blacks but any POC . It’s weird , went there and felt the country is so backwards despite of what they show in media.
OldOperation6306@reddit
Malaysia is a highly racist country I stayed in doors through out my stay there as they close their noses when they see a black person and police is highly corrupt looking for any black person who o extort money from and finally any police man can burst into your home without a warrant as it’s Malaysia law to arrest you without warrant and lock you up for 21 days in jail lol am currently an Australian citizen and life has been good please STAY AWAY FROM MALAYSIA IF YOU BLACK !!!
Icloh@reddit
You can leave out “towards black people” and insert “any race which isn’t theirs”.
rookietrader_85@reddit
I specifically mentioned black people because our racist experiences are quite distinct from the experiences of other races. I found that South Asians and white people had a lot more privilege in Malaysia and experienced less prejudice. I will give you a few examples of black people's experiences here:
Pitiful-Reaction-323@reddit
Wogs
BentPin@reddit
I'll take interesting experiences for 10000 Alex.
Emily_Postal@reddit
I had a friend who moved there and he hated it. He moved back home.
Excel_babe@reddit
I’m born and raised in Malaysia. And I do not recommend this move as I’m Malaysian Chinese and even I don’t even enjoy it here. I’d like to move if given the chance.
N0rthernLightsXv@reddit
Agree. I spent 6 months in Malaysia and I was shocked at the racism. I remember vividly driving up to an apartment building and a huge sign "no blacks allowed."
I was like what year is it?
I am from Washington state and can not fathom that being allowed.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
In what town did you see the sign?
N0rthernLightsXv@reddit
Kuala Lumpur.
imogen1983@reddit
I used to live there and 100% agree with this. I’d recommend moving to a more liberal blue state over Malaysia. Based on how I saw some people treated, I can’t imagine it would be a positive experience for the OP. I would also think the politics could actually seem worse than Florida, in many ways, like FGM being promoted by the health minister.
Malaysia has many wonderful aspects, like food, culture, healthcare, but I don’t know if the tradeoffs would be worth it.
RexManning1@reddit
And deeply not into politics is wrong. Malaysians are political.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Thank you very much. May I ask, why did you stay for so long?
rookietrader_85@reddit
I went there for my postgraduate studies and ended up getting a good job with a global company after graduation. At school and also in the working environment things were generally okay, but dealing with the general public was in many cases horrible.
tipyourwaitresstoo@reddit
Commenting to hopeful push this to the top if that’s even a thing.
dxmforall@reddit
I have lived in Malaysia for a year, and as a Christian it’ll be tough, it’s a Muslim country, and although it’s multiethnic the Malay people are Muslims, the Chinese and Indian minority are not so easy to integrate to as well. As African American you will stand out, and you will forever be the foreigner, just like me as white person. Why not consider Panama? It’s really close to Florida, there are no racial tensions at all, we have a big black and mixed community, well the majority of the population is mixed, so if you only saw a few words of Spanish everybody will immediately think that you are Panamanian. I am German and white and people still think I am Panamanian, and my Asian friends as well because there’s a 10% Chinese minority here that has been here for three generations. Panama is a completely Christian country and you have even English speaking Christian churches. And since panama has been an American “colony” before many things here are not too far from what you know in Florida. But just check it out, go on a holiday to both countries and then decide.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
It doesn't bother me to be considered a foreigner. I am. I have been to Moslem countries for a few months as a visitor. I covered my head and dressed modestly. I didn't draw attention. When I had to interact it was clear that I was a foreigner. The response, in general was positive because they felt that I was trying to be respectful. Were you able to go to church? I appreciate the suggestion. I was in Panama quite a few years ago. Things were not so good. I saw a lot of families struggling. Crime was rampant. I wasn't comfortable. It was beautiful with the rainforest and beaches. Everyday people were welcoming. I guess I look like a Panamanian also. My skin color and facial features. I didn't speak because there were problems with robberies and such. I don't know Spanish. It was funny because guys on the street would flirt with me and I would hold my head up and make a sound like I was insulted.
Training-Ad-5695@reddit
Live in Florida, same age and contemplating moving as well. Considered KL and have the same concerns. Traveled to Panama some years ago, had a mostly positive experience and from places I have started researching Panama keeps coming up. Would love to know if you found someplace or other places you have researched
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
So here's my update. A few people sent me private messages regarding Panama. Initially I wasn't interested. But as time went on I changed my mind. I went down to check it out. Now we're moving!!
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
I live in Florida if I haven't said it already. I'm sorry fellow Floridians but this place is horrible. Expensive and too many people that seem angry all the time.
Training-Ad-5695@reddit
Wow, that is great!! Have you settled on an area? I am considering the Balboa Ave area more than any other
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Yes I found a place. This is what I did. I asked about a few different cities from various people. Map them out on Google maps. Learned how to take the bus. And rode the bus from City to City. It gave me a chance to see the country. And to understand how hard it would be to function without knowing the language :-).
Training-Ad-5695@reddit
Thank you for the information, I will try that. Again congrats on making the move and best of luck in your new environment!
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Also where we're chatting, when I asked for suggestions of cities to go to, also asked for cities not to go to. Within the cities, I made sure I did the same. As we all know, because the city could be fine doesn't mean a neighborhood is safe. I asked locals but also hotels where there are expats. Locals sense of danger has a higher tolerance than for foreigners. For example when I was in David, staff at a hotel told me to stay away from an area around an abandoned church. She showed me on a map .
Training-Ad-5695@reddit
Thank you, that is good advise to ask where not to go, what they consider safe might definitely be different then what might consider unsafe. I stayed on Avenue Balboa when I was there and is most likely the area I will look. Any other insight or advice is appreciated. I know you said you are moving, have you actually relocated?
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
PM me. People will get upset if there's back and forth on a personal level
dxmforall@reddit
That’s true, being respectful in any country helps a lot, and people in Malaysia were nice, still my personal preference is to be able to blend in a bit more haha. I wasn’t going to church, I hadn’t found one that was close to me and I was working a lot. So I only attended online mass. Panama has changed a lot in the last 15 years, Casco Viejo which was the dangerous part with gang wars is now the most expensive and most beautiful part of Pamama city and I heard that the old gang members are now all working as restaurant managers, and staff, it’s very peaceful and happy there. Crime is completely down, there are no robberies or pickpockets anymore, and I have been to some poorer parts of the city and people had been very friendly, not one bad look from anyone. And nature here is amazing, there are also some new surfer towns and up in the mountains around Boquete there are many retirees from Canada and the US. From Florida it’s just a 3 hour flight down here, and same time zone, I am sure you’ll like it now much more, without the crime.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Good to know. Vacations to Panama are always on sale. What placed should I visit? Panama City is too big.
dxmforall@reddit
You should definitely go to Boquete and Volcan, the mountain towns with all the coffee farms around them, there it’s cloud rainforest, cooler climate, lots of beautiful birds and other animals and very quiet. If you like it even more remote then Santa Fe is a good choice, it’s also in the mountains, not that high up and it’s the orchid centre of Panama, perfect climate for orchids. And if you like local more Spanish towns, then it’s Chitre and Las Tablas for a very relaxed vibe. All these towns are not on the beach, since you mentioned you’d prefer not to stay at the beach. But if you want to have a nice beach holiday, you should go to Venao, which is the best surfer town or something closer to Panama City are the Las Perlas islands, where you can go with the ferry from the city within 90 minutes, to Contadora or Saboga, for beach holidays.
Bronco_Corgi@reddit
What's the situation in Panama for trans people? I retire in 20 months and I don't have Panama on my list because I've heard the LGBT community down there isn't great and the way they treated trans people during lock down (wouldn't let us shop on either male or female days). What I am looking for mostly is a tribe, and good healthcare. Everything else is negotiable.
dxmforall@reddit
I only know that the LGB community is quite vibrant here, although the country is conservative, but people are quite open and lgb people are integrated well. Can’t tell you anything about trans people unfortunately. What I can tell you is that the hospitals and healthcare is absolutely amazing, the hospitals are American high end standard, there’s the Panama Clinic, a luxury hospital and Paitilla Hospital which can easily compete with the absolute high-end luxury hospitals in Thailand, where you have a integrated hotel for longer stays, and only latest equipment. I had a severe car accident once in the rainforest and was very happy with the emergency care I got. I had twenty stitches on my head where the skin had raptured and they got a plastic surgeon for stitching, and he did it so perfectly that it healed without scar.
geo423@reddit
Here's a little word of advice, and I don't care if I'm downvoted or whatever,
but asking a largely white dominant subreddit about if Malaysia will be good for you, a Black American woman, is a mistake,
I live in Southeast Asia and I've been to Malaysia quite a few times, I've always had a great experience,
for one reason or another, I don't know why, but white people seem to love telling Black people this usual line "Oh southeast asia + east asia are so racist to black people, don't come, you'll hate it, they hate you",
that's been very far from my experience and I live here full-time and have integrated pretty well if I would say so myself, just like you I am a Black American(albeit have.a few other nationalities as well).
I would come YOURSELF and try it out for yourself, I've noticed this Asian gatekeeping phenomenon a bit and it is pretty well.
I will say Malaysia does have issues with Nigerians/some Africans, but its fairly easy for most to distinguish between Africans and Black Americans.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
I have been weighing comments of people from my race and gender heavier. What about housing discrimination? My girl friend from France says it happens a lot there.
Southern-Loss-50@reddit
I believe France is into direct discrimination. I’ve seen POC be ignored in restaurants, cafes etc. who then react, police get involved and the waiter shrugs his shoulders and grins and walks off.
Germany used to be good, but they are experiencing migrants who stop and live there now for the last two decades in far far greater numbers. It’s changed Germans.
In the Uk, I find it’s the other way round, the POC are far more racist than everyone else.
Just explore - you’ll find a vibe that suits you and settle down…. The rule of thumb though - no matter where you are - think of yourself as a guest there with no rights and you will integrate well. 👍
tyumnb@reddit
Huh?
geo423@reddit
As a Black American you would barely find much housing discrimination pointed at you,
its mostly concentrated between Indians/Malays/Chinese at each other, and usually mostly at Indians,
you work with an agent and the agent will help you find suitable units, especially if like most expats you're looking to rent units in the modern luxury condos, which are pretty modernized in who they accept(the color they love is green baby).
Simco_@reddit
The struggle is getting all the people who know their experience isn't relevant to not write 5 paragraphs in this thread...
MissLMT@reddit
well said! I will say African women I've met and followed online are living well in Asia.
geo423@reddit
Yeah you have to do it yourself and just come out and see it with your own eyes,
or ask in trusted black online communities,
asking reddit is a complete wash most of the time.
I would hate to see OP not explore Malaysia further because as a Black American, the experience can be completely different, even from an African one. But yes you are right, there are plenty of Africans even living well in Asia.
kokopups@reddit
hi , wondering how things going for you?
anyway, i just returned from Kuala Lumpur, it was such a huge diverse melting pot of people, including blacks, japanese, indians, chinese, arabs etc... i really had a lovely time there. id also take what people say online with a grain of salt, a lot of negative stories get the light shined on them because no one goes online to write about the great experiences usually.
well if anything, id recommend visiting before completely crossing it off your list. i just returned and already planning my next trip back in a couple months.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Thanks. Right now I booked a relocation seminar to Panama. To be honest, the negative comments in this sub/reddit did cause me concern. Presently I am in Zambia for a few weeks. It's nice not to stand out, except when I open my mouth to speak. Thanks for your follow-up. It has given me encouragement to reconsider Malaysia.
Direct_Supermarket33@reddit
I lived in Malaysia for six months and absolutely loved it! But I am a black hijabi as well(born and raised Muslim). I would say I assimilate way easier to Muslim countries than non Muslims. The people are friendly, food and beauty services are cheap as heck. Traveling to other countries is also super cheap too. I visited Laos, Cambodia and Thailand for all under 1k. That was with flights, accommodation, shopping, eating out, etc. I’m moving back at the end of July because that how much I missed it. For context I’m also 26, brown skin and on the chubby side. But I did lose hella weight in Malaysia from moving around so much. Skin and hair also got super healthy there. Malaysians have thicker hair textures and also curlier so you’ll ALWAYS find stuff for your hair. If you have any questions feel free to reach out!
tvpsbooze@reddit
As a PoC who have lived in different countries (UK, Asia) and travelled to over 30 countries some of them multiple times, I can tell you that USA is the most accepting country for POC people from different perspectives such as career and making social connections. So even though political situation may not be that good in USA, for POC it remains the most open place.
I would go in a heartbeat to USA if I could get a work permit and choose where I get to stay in the
TarquinOliverNimrod@reddit
Absolutely not. I grew up in the US, originally from Jamaica, and have lived in Europe and the Middle East.
You could make the argument for the US being the most accepting for people of color from OTHER people of color, but from white people absolutely not. The US is one of the most racist countries on the planet and the tide is shifting. The rhetoric about immigration and migrants has become even worse.
Since returning to the US for my career I am swiftly leaving because the micro aggressions and the comments I am hearing have become even worse.
Europe isn’t perfect of course, a lot of racism there, but some white people in certain countries in Europe are miles better than the ones here in America.
partypopulaire@reddit
It's so weird this comment is getting downvoted.
TarquinOliverNimrod@reddit
This sub is basically Americans wanting to leave the US because it sucks but don’t want to admit that it does and gets offended when someone points it out. I’m not surprised.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Where do you plan to go?
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Especially in Florida.
Ill-Morning-5153@reddit
As an Asian American you are right, I'll add another caveat that Americans are accepting of those that are politically aligned with them.
Politics is just not as big in some countries, political or social identify, or any hills to die on, for that matter. Some countries are just more pragmatic.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Here's the thing about the US.....every, yes , every country that I have traveled to consider foreigners to be the ones to discriminate against. However, in the US people of color, regardless of the fact that we are not always foreigners, face some form of racism on a regular basis. The indigenous people fight against poverty and racism. Many people consider this to be a white, Angelo Saxon, Christian country. Its definitely not. I expect to be treated differently and like I don't belong in a foreign country. I will be an immigrant. It is a whole different thing to be treated like someone is doing me a favor to let me live in a nice neighborhood, have a good job or to be accepted in a good college. Ok. I am stepping off the soap box. I just want to have serenity.
tvpsbooze@reddit
If it’s purely on the basis of colour, then Africa may be better because in any country in the world, if you are not the part of the majority, then that seamlessness is going to be missing. World is not that mature yet.
But no, absolutely not, plenty of countries believe that once an immigrant (like even immigrant ancestor) make you an immigrant foreigner. E.g Second, third Turkish; Italian generations in Germany still consider themselves as Turkish or Italians because they were never accepted in the country in the first place.
People from these countries believe that immigrants are ones who are NOT making an effort to integrate in but fail to realise that it’s a two way street.
DatingYella@reddit
Agreed agreed agreed. there are no utopias, and the US is so EXCEPTIONAL when it comes to integrating people. I think a lot of Americans simply do not have the perspective that simply being abroad, even if you racially look the same as locals, will make you stand out. Daily tasks such as interacting with government will become a hassle.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
God help me if you are right.
Ill-Morning-5153@reddit
That may be the poster's own experience. From mine I can tell you that other countries in Asia, like Malaysia, where they shine is that politics or political identity is not on the forefront.
Plus, you most likely won't experience any shootings near you.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
I can't stand guns anymore. Someone was pressing my buttons a couple of days ago. I asked him to check on an elderly lady because a storm was expected. He kept saying stupid stuff about shooting her dog if it groaned at him. I didn't find it amusing to talk about shooting an old lady's dog right in front of her. Stupid people
sfdragonboy@reddit
Yup, just bought my place with a view there. Love Malaysia. And yes, me too from US. I have my MM2H visa. If you need a good agent, I know one there.
techrmd3@reddit
and you think MALAYSIA!!! ??? will be better? Have you READ the annual report the top countries which may encounter a coup in the coming year by the CIA?
Ever heard of it? Malaysia is ALWAYS ALWAYS in top 10 year after year. Things may be "better now"... but don't count on it.
Also Malaysia is a Muslim country (70% maylay). As in they don't understand the idea of women wandering around on their own normally. Will you be bringing a man with you so you can be escorted? Otherwise don't venture outside of KL then.
Just remember if the balloon goes up that 70% of the population will be keen to seek out any obvious foreigners (like what happened in Indonesia 1965-66, and 1997-98)
And Malaysia has such lovely neighbors like Bangladesh (4 coups in last 20-30 years) and Thailand (which is run by a Military Junta that eliminated democracy right be fore the old king died around 2016)
Yeah Malaysia is a swell place for you to "get away from all the political situation you "see" in the US"
Why not visit Rwanda for vacations?
Ok-Racisto69@reddit
I am not sure what kind of people upvote your comment, but I believe they have limited travel experience.
Bangladesh and Malaysia do not share a common border. Also, which coups happened in Bangladesh?
I think OP's comments made someone mad.
Don't go to Thailand, OP. It's the place you're looking for.
techrmd3@reddit
the people who upvote are the people who are wise and probably have actually BEEN to Malaysia
It's amazing how when asked people with actual experience in country will provide clear feedback not filtered by what someone "wants to be reality"
And yeah Thailand ... that new king will keep things together! That's the ticket.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Your reply is a little harsh but worth taking seriously. I usually do fairly decent research - often looking for source documents. I didn't know that the CIA has such a list available to the general public. I will definitely read it.
techrmd3@reddit
may be harsh but please PLEASE look to see if the country nominally operates under ISLAMIC LAW before even considering a country if you happen to be of the FEMALE type traveling alone.
Even India technically has Islamic law (along with Hindu and Civil-State Law)
It is easy as a westerner to think that certain things we TAKE FOR GRANTED, like Due Process, Habeas Corpus, Right to Silence, Right to not having testimony coerced, Right not to self incriminate, Right to an Attorney, Right to testify in your own defense, Right to face your accuser. And above all the whole idea of separation of Church and State.
ALL of the above ARE NOT GUARANTEED in an Islamic country and you don't happen to be of the faith.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Thanks
demostenes_arm@reddit
I am not sure where you get information from, and I am definitely no expert in women or black women’s safety either, but it’s quite far fetched. I have been to 7 different Malaysian states and everywhere you can see many women doing errands, manning shops and businesses by themselves, in fact I have never seen as many as Uber-like platform female drivers as in Malaysia.
I don’t think there is a risk of a “coup” in Malaysia - the military isn’t particularly influential in the country. There is a chance of a takeover by Islamists via elections, but that’s more a concern for Malaysian minorities than for expats on retiree visas.
And yeah, Malaysia and Bangladesh are definitely not neighbours.
techrmd3@reddit
>have been to 7 different Malaysian states and everywhere you can see many women doing errands, manning shops and businesses by themselves, in fact I have never seen as many as Uber-like platform female drivers as in Malaysia.
Well Gee if it's ok for Women to be Uber"like" drivers it must be AOK. I mean other women that have traveled into the rural areas in Malaysia have been harassed and written about it on digital nomad Reddit forums. When I was in KL I would have women ALWAYS ask me to go with them (read as escorted) if they visited Penang. But hey maybe you just don't know many women. I bet you thought all the Saudi Tourist women were in their Black Abayas because it was "trendy in a tropical climate" "no?"
You are absurd and probably have not been to the 7 places you say you have been. The most you probably have seen of Malaysia is the other shore from Singapore ya low info tourist.
demostenes_arm@reddit
Well, for some reason I feel I am a more credible than someone who states that Malaysia is a neighbour of Bangladesh.
techrmd3@reddit
yeah so I got that wrong it was 2 countries over through Thailand and Myramar another model of government stability
again if you have not really been there, heard the call to prayers wandered into places where only malays are, not the ethnic chinese who run those shops you like, but malays their women are kind of distinctive AND realize that they are 70% of the population you too might just MIGHT not get surprised by another Indonesia type 1997 thing.
You are always the type that go "I had NO IDEA things could turn violent like this!" Shocked expression as vehicles explode in background
And then people like me (well young me) have to go in a rescue your unobservant hind quarters.
But hey you do you, it's not like revolutions, invasions and civil unrest are in style right now...probably nothing to worry about. Haiti is FINE nothing to worry about, Indonesia is FINE nothing to worry about, Venezuela is FINE nothing to worry about, Iran is FINE the shah will have this under control,
It's all Ubers and McDonalds until it's not isn't it?
trueworldcapital@reddit
Bro thinks bangladesh is next to malaysia lmao propaganda bot
TarquinOliverNimrod@reddit
Imagine using the CIA as a barometer for which countries to avoid. Please stop.
techrmd3@reddit
no you stop your ignorance. the CIA factsheets are the gold standard for general information on countries outside of the US. While the State Dept notices give "emergency" guidance. For general background on what countries are stable and which are not CIA is a readily available source. Especially if you can't afford Stratfor ... I gather you really don't know that much about international security situations.
So why comment from ignorance?
TarquinOliverNimrod@reddit
Yeah sure, trust the CIA. Sounds about American.
Inspireme21@reddit
What about Dubai any better?
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Woa. Isn't it crazy expensive and strict?
techrmd3@reddit
Dubai is "probably" safe and stable for anyone with a 1st world passport. If you are a tourist and act like a tourist and don't get crazy it's fine.
Have any brushes with the law and you will find out quickly it's medieval dictatorship where non-muslims can't testify in their defense under Islamic law.
Also going along with the medieval part. If you are rich you have zero worries normally.
enigmaroboto@reddit
My sister lived there and got called all kind of names on a regular basis. Especially by Chinese Malaysians.
African Am. Her husband got a job there. Their money went very far though and they lived very well on their American Income.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Nope. I can stay in the US and get called names. Thanks for telling me this.
enigmaroboto@reddit
True
worldisbraindead@reddit
Whenever I read posts like this...especially when they say, "I'm a global traveler"...I have to wonder if they've ever been to Asia.
Thrifty_Builder@reddit
I've spent much of my adult life in Asia, and I have to say most Asian cultures try to stay as light skinned as possible and tend to look down on those with darker skin.
zethenus@reddit
Malaysian here, the racism is real. On the surface, you’ll probably get looks and stares. Day to day interactions will be challenging in the beginning, but should improve over time as the locals get to know you. Being female will help a lot as most of the racism comes from fear of black ppl.
That’s the surface. Malaysia, like most Asian countries, have a deep under current of deep rooted racism. In M’sia, anything that clashes with religion, you’ll be at a disadvantage or in the wrong regardless of the situation or ppl. When it comes to religion, there is no right or wrong. There is only Islam and you do not encroach it by the slightest.
When this happens, no Muslims will be on your side, even if they silently want to. We, the local minorities, learn to not make waves in order to survive. Ppl will say the wrong thing, pushes wrong ideologies on you, call you names, use derogatory terms, goad you with back handed comments, single you out, and we learn to brush it all off in order to survive.
Thus as long as you steer clear of religion, is able to brush minor infractions off, the racism will largely be just background noise.
I would highly encourage you to stay in KL or Penang. Both these cities had lived with the influx of foreigners for years, including black ppl. Any towns outside of these 2 will be highly challenging if not impossible. Tioman might be an exception.
As with all immigrant experience, the better you assimilate, the better the experience will be.
here4geld@reddit
you are living in a democracy. Where people can voice their opinion. you have a stable n strongest currency.
you want to live that because you have anxiety.
how will you manage living alone in a muslim asian country where women have no equal right like men do. where multiple marriages are still common. democracy is also questionable.
PrunePlatoon@reddit
Over longer period of time you start to realize how fucked up Malaysia is. It's fine for a visit but I only spend a week at a time there when I have to. The variety of food is pretty great though.
As a white guy tourist I don't have much to worry about besides corrupt police... however also being gay I have ventured into the few gay clubs and talked to some of the local queer folk who have some stories to tell. Many had left their villages to come to KL after they experienced some pretty intense encounters with religious extremists. I haven't been back since 2021 and I hear the government continues to make moves against the LGBT crowd.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
If I was gay, I would never venture into a Moslem or East European country without a really good reason.
PrunePlatoon@reddit
You should watch Oskar and Dan on youtube then. A young gay couple that has traveled to over 100 countries and often encounter this very situation.
I can find a reason to avoid to travel to many countries, but that sounds quite limiting and boring. I'm not a local activist, I'm a tourist trying to experience the daily life of another culture. I can have my own opinions but trying to limit yourself to only the countries that match your views is not possible for me.
yegegebzia@reddit
Typically, the attitude toward gay people in a country serves as a good litmus test for tolerance toward other groups, such as women and foreigners. In places where discrimination or threats against gays exist, there tends to be a high level of xenophobia or discrimination against women. Such countries are generally not suitable for making long-term life plans for anyone.
DruidWonder@reddit
Don't do it. East Asia and Southest Asia are racist AF. I know a lot of English teachers who lived in that part of the world and the POC were treated as subhuman, even by their employers. I myself also lived there.
If there is something genuinely drawing yourself to that part of the world that you just have to figure out, then I would suggest a shorter vacation to see the realities. Maybe go for a month. Don't just move there. You will regret it.
magkruppe@reddit
she is black, not just POC. an Indian, arab, black and south east Asian will face different issues in Asia
plenty of black people are living happy and fruitful lives in East Asia. the biggest obstacle of being black is probably dating (unless you are hot), everything else seems fine
DruidWonder@reddit
Splitting hairs aside, you know what I meant. Every POC I know living in E and SE Asia has struggled. I'm just being real with the OP.
Afireinside11@reddit
Consider Nairobi. I live there and it seems to check all your boxes
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
I am going to Malawi in May to help the local people. Maybe I can divert my flight. Safe country?
Afireinside11@reddit
If you take some pretty basic precautions and live in a good area, it’s plenty safe. You would stand out less than I do as a mzungu :)
The food is awesome and healthy as well.
Wise-Seesaw5953@reddit
I am Kenyan and it would be a good fit and you can consider living here. The weather is great, the people are warm and welcoming, we are mainly christian , cost of living is alright depending on your lifestyle.Security is dependent on which area you choose to live in. Corruption is rampant but you will catch up quickly how things work.
RexManning1@reddit
If OP was looking at Malaysia, corruption isn’t an issue.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Hmm. A lot of countries in Africa grant residency to Black Americans. Worth checking out. I'll let you know if I get to Kenya.
Wise-Seesaw5953@reddit
Incase you think Kenya is a viable option for you, a good friend is an immigration consultant and she can advise you on matters residency. I hope you find a place to call home and I'll be glad to hear from you if you come to Kenya.
yadius@reddit
Malcolm X was 100% correct in his assessment of Reddit's key demographic.
Don't trust these people to tell you the truth.
Go and experience the country for yourself.
DatingYella@reddit
There’s wisdom in that. But moving abroad due to feeling like you have no control over the political process rather than feeling like you’re in actual danger is asking for a lot of trouble.
You’ll be a foreigner no matter what. And new frustrations will come up. I’ve definitely done the same thing as op (but way younger, and had way less money). So it might make sense for her.
geo423@reddit
Yeah I have no idea why anyone Black would ask reddit if a place to go to is okay,
they don't want to see you abroad in their favored destinations, which they count many Asian countries as one LMAO.
True-Ad-7775@reddit
You might want to consider Singapore if costs allow. Language wouldn’t be an issue and the expat community is large.
playtrix@reddit
Race relations are actually better in the United States than they are in southeast asia. A lot of minorities are not celebrated here.
everydayguy20@reddit
“Not celebrated” is a very nice way of putting it.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Thanks
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Ok. Saved your comment
Mr_Lumbergh@reddit
Hell, I'm a white dude and I feel it too; I can't imagine what this would be like for you. That was a big part of my motivation to go ahead and get back now rather than try for another resident return visa.
Based on some of the feedback below it doesn't really sound as though Malaysia is the place. Some place in the Caribbean such as Belize may be good, check that out.
crunchiestcroissant@reddit
My family is Malaysian and I’ve just returned from a trip there. Malaysia is a beautiful place but is deeply unaligned with what you are looking for. On the surface is looks multicultural and diverse but under that it is more racially divided and politically fractured than you think. It is a Muslim country and it operates like one. My family migrated to a western country because of how racially charged everyday life is.
Humble_Hat_7160@reddit
As a white male, I found Malaysia to be very racist and homophobic and felt on edge the entire time I was there. I’ve traveled a lot and it’s one of the few places I wouldn’t visit again.
Jacob_Soda@reddit
How so? I thought white worshipping is rampant in Asia?
Humble_Hat_7160@reddit
True, to clarify I didn’t experience racism but it was noticeable similar to how the caste system operates in India, as well as the obsession with skin whitening creams, clinics, etc. Re homosexuality, I was with another white man (my husband) and even without any PDA I felt super uncomfortable walking in a lot of places.
Both-Basis-3723@reddit
Thailand has a retirement visa and is a little more chill. Try Chiang mai. It up in the northern highlands and just lovely. Not saying it isn’t racist but it’s a more low key culture
Humble_Hat_7160@reddit
Agree Chiang Mai is very tolerant and chill compared to most of Asia.
tigbit72@reddit
Chiang Mai has some of the worst air pollution problems in the entire world.
RexManning1@reddit
Yup. The air quality in the country is terrible save for the southern islands.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Ok. I definitely will
MissLMT@reddit
I lived in/visted Malaysia for a little over a month. overall I enjoyed myself (BW). Malaysians are some of this kindest people Ive met durong my travels. very affordable on US income and easy to travel around and out to other countries in Asia. I do not advise planning your life around the negative experiences of others. If it were me I would spend a few months in Malaysia (KL, Penang<-my fav, etc) and see the country for yourself. you should do this with any place you plan to live in. also be open to living in the US part of the year and spending a few months in other countries. it doesn't have to be either or. dont listen to the fear mongering of others. go by your own experiences and common sense, ALWAYS!! <3
Catsabovepeople@reddit
I’ve been to all over south east Asia and one area you may want to consider is the Philippines. Unfortunately being black there will be discrimination no matter where you go and since Malaysia is a Muslim country you may feel a bit out of place there. You also never know if it becomes more political or imposes stricter muslim laws as the entire world seems to be getting angrier, not just the US.
I’ve met many expats in the Philippines and it’s a very Christian country so you’ll have that in common. I specifically loved Bohol as the beaches were pristine and people appeared to be genuinely happy there.
Good luck with whatever you choose and would love if you report back to us.
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
I thought about the Philippines. My best friend is Filipino. I grew up with her and her siblings. We consider each other to be my family. They complain about the President and poverty. I eliminated it because I don't want to deal with a crazy President. No offense intended to Filipino people. It is indeed a Christian country. They also like foreigners.
Catsabovepeople@reddit
They are such great people but yes, politics everywhere is such a gamble. I’m Canadian and if Trudeau gets elected again next year I’m 100% out.
dangerrz0ne@reddit
I don’t have advice for Malaysia, but have you considered Kathmandu in Nepal? It doesn’t have as much of a big city vibe as some other Asian cities but the people seem very kind and are used to a variety of ethnicities coming through (because of various Himalayan expeditions). Your retirement money would also stretch far similarly to Malaysia! If you’re also active, I can’t imagine being in a better place to hike!
I am a white woman so hopefully someone else can chime in if they have negative experiences, but good luck with finding a new home!!
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
That's a new one, Nepal has not been suggested. I can't say Katmandu without breaking into Bob Seager's song.
TarquinOliverNimrod@reddit
As a black women who has expatriated multiple times I think you should pursue it. I have black-Malay friends and they always go back home and stay for months until they have to leave.
The comments you may get from this sub in particular will not be ones that are reliable in my opinion. Muslims are very tolerant of Christian’s and people of other religions—I lived in the the Middle East in a Muslim majority country and they were some of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
Ask in Malaysian groups. Pursue your options outside of this country! It really is hell and if you can get a visa even better! I wish you all the luck! If you need advice on expatriating to any European country feel free to message me!
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I will. Malaysia is crossed off. Italy is still an option.
International-Bird17@reddit
Thank you for asking this question my dad is a black man in his 60s thinking of relocating there for retirement. Good luck wherever you choose to retire!
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
After reading these responses, it crossed off my list
MPD1987@reddit
Malaysia? Really? I’m all for leaving- heck, I’ve done it myself, but why Malaysia? Seems random
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Maybe they are hyping up on the Internet. It is often suggested on Reddit, YouTube and general Web searches. Google is a good country to retire. Portugal, Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia show up often
BrahminVyapaar@reddit
Please also ask at r/malaysia
Rockstar_kinda@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I also posted on r/Malaysia when I did this one.
bebok77@reddit
Well.
Ex expat, lived in malaysia for 11 years,my spouse is malaysian.
While some people gave very extreme feedback, there is some grain of truth.
POC term is not relevant term as much as the ethnic background.
They are not keen on African persons, in some part, Nigerian especially (well, they have a few bad seeds which tarnish their reputation). We had difficulty for one of our Nigerian employees.
Local politics are often on the not so smart spectrum and they will play the same odd narratives (Muslims is oppressed etc, muslism image etc)
Malaysia had their own riots a while back. Some social media will enforce some negative feedback.
They have also the live together, it may be the only place where you will see people at the mamak store speak to each other in their respective ethnic language. A lady serving in tamale, switching to bahasa etc.
tipyourwaitresstoo@reddit
You should consider Panama.
highland_attitude@reddit
Go to Kenyan or Tanzanian coast. Friendly people, you'll blend in, affordable, and relatively low likelihood of political upheavals.
Inspireme21@reddit
What about Dubai?
e9967780@reddit
There are Christian parts of Malaysia as well, Sarawak and Sabah have very large Christian populations.
CheapCartographer129@reddit
Please no, listen yo the no people. Best wishes. Be safe and be happy.
skeeter04@reddit
I have been to Malaysia many times. Yes most of that is true. You really need to go there and try it before you make any long term decisions. Fly into KL and rent a car. Drive up the east coast, cross the country and then go down the west coast. Be sure to see the Cameron Highlights. I think somewhere in suburban KL might suit you. Also remember that the northern half of Borneo belongs to Malaysia so you could go see KK and experience a completely different Malaysia. You could even pop over to Brunei and check out all the Arab influence. Ask if you have any specific questions.
KnotAwl@reddit
They don’t like women and they really don’t like dark skin. Near 50-60% of all ads are about lightening your skin. Women have been known to die from putting too much bleach on their faces before their marriages. All unsolved crimes are committed by “Africans” and “Mexicans.” Not a wise choice.
RupertHermano@reddit
Maybe use Google and Wikipedia to first see where Christian communities are largest etc.
I think get people may be more open, but you may encounter bigotry among older, more tradition bound people. There‘s also a traditional/ conservative cultural revival going on.
Have you considered Indonesia. Java and further south is very tolerant. You’ll see church- mosque - buddhist temple next to each other in places. But, yeah, high pop density on Java.
Puzzleheaded_Ant_265@reddit
Indian Malaysians are incredibly racist towards black people, I would not recommend Malaysia .
Alice_Alpha@reddit
Go for it.
Good luck.