Police spammed with complaints by neo-Nazis under new Scottish hate crime law
Posted by dump_reddits_ipo@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 229 comments
kirosayshowdy@reddit
they're... self-reporting?
Untowardopinions@reddit
It’s a bad law. I know that neo Nazis don’t like it and therefore there’s a reflexive desire to say it must be good- however, it is completely open to exploitation by anyone. It could, for example, easily be used by zionists to silence anyone who criticises Israel’s actions in Gaza- and having a “non crime hate incident” on your file could affect your future job applications, even if it isn’t prosecuted. It’s a nightmarish overstep, and it’s worth reading the text of the law yourself before you start rallying round it. Frankly, I may start reporting some things I’ve found offensive myself.
HoodsInSuits@reddit
Just commenting to say 2024 is pretty crazy. We are at a point where someone can say neo nazi bad and in the same sentence unironically warn against "the Jews".
The_Synthax@reddit
Are you claiming that Israel’s actions are any less horrible than those of neo-nazis? The Israeli government and the neo-nazis are the same kind of hateful, disgusting people- with one key difference. While both would absolutely commit genocide in a heartbeat, those in charge of Israel have the actual power to do so.
I couldn’t care less about the involvement of race or religion in any of this, if you’re doing a genocide, you’re well on your way toward being just as bad as the nazis and deserve to meet the same fate.
Beneficial_Figure966@reddit
Yes, one voice of reason. It doesn't matter why someone wants to kill all of a particular group regardless of which group. Wanting deaths is wanting deaths.
Untowardopinions@reddit
I actually think it’s rampant antisemitism for you to accuse all Jewish people of being Zionists. You bigot.
HoodsInSuits@reddit
Ah yeah after reading it again I realise you didn't actually say that you don't agree with neo nazis, my mistake.
Untowardopinions@reddit
Well you breathe air and drink water, just like a Nazi, so you’re just as bad.
The_Biggest_Midget@reddit
Dam I just read it and it honestly sounds like the vague language my country (Vietnam) uses to suppress political dissidents. Thr left in the West seems to really like Marxist thought mechanisms, in the context of control of accepted speech.
Swimming-Book-1296@reddit
because it is marxism. Marxism was always popular with the elites in the west, but not with ordinary folks.
CriticalDog@reddit
The left are generally not Marxists, as we have seen what comes of that path.
In the US at least, most fall into more of an EU "Social Democrat" mold. Strong social safety net, string business regulation, socially funded healthcare, education, equality in the justice system, etc etc.
Doesn't keep us from being called Marxists, or Communists, or "radical left" by the actually dangerous authoritarians in our country, but that's not new....
The_Biggest_Midget@reddit
I ment in a cultural context not economic. This is very much a cultural offshoot of Marxist thought in how this Law is written. What makes a "reasonable person" like this law talks about and who decides it, the people or a centralized power? My bet is on the latter, which aslo gives them an abitto exercise their own self benefiting discretion. This is centralization of social conversations for the sake of controlling the population in whatever direction they find useful at the mement as most authoritarian countries ljke mine do with similar laws to this one. I bet this law would have arrested people calling Israel an appartied state shortly after October 7th for example or claiming that covid 19 was leaked from a Chinese lab if discussed in the early onset of the virus. Both could be construed as being racist to a "reasonable person". From first hand experience I can tell you that these top down mechanisms of societal control work much less efficiently than societal self policing from ones peers. This will simply breed a victim mentality in actual extremist groups, which will increase positive sentiment, while punishing swaths of innocent people, which will degrade public trust in institutions, and balkanize internet discourse even more so than it does today.
No_Medium3333@reddit
The flags may be different, the methods the same
JackasaurusChance@reddit
I remember a video of a UK cop swearing, someone told him to fuck off, and then he arrested that person because of offensive speech.
I really don't see how this new law won't be similarly abused by whoever is in power to simply punish those they disagree with.
LogosLine@reddit
UK police have an absolutely dystopian range of powers to stop, search, detain and arrest citizens. They can do this on a whim, easily make up justifications and have zero consequences for abusing their powers.
Swearing, raising your voice in public, absolutely anything can be implied to be causing "alarm, harassment or distress". These are called public order offences and they give police carte blanche to arrest you or detain you whenever they feel like. There are a load of other similar offenses to do with anti-social behaviour which can easily be abused.
There are also extremely broad, civil liberty stifling, anti terrorism legislation, especially Section 43, which is abused constantly to harass citizens, detain them, search them, for any made up reason a police officer feels like. There's are literally 100s of videos online of police abusing this power with zero consequences.
Living in Scotland myself, believing passionately in my human rights and civil liberties, I honestly despise living here. We are not free, not anywhere close. We in fact live in a borderline authoritarian police state and this new (and more upcoming legislation as well as UK wide anti protest laws) are all stifling freedoms of the citizenry more and more every day.
There's a lot of things I'm critical of the US for, a long list in fact, but their rights under their constitution is something I'd dream of having in this dystopian shithole.
_Brimstone@reddit
This is just the far left calling anyone who questions their extreme authoritarian curtailing of free speech Nazis. Like always, the Nazi boogeyman doesn't exist. Read the article. They're reporting the government for anti-white discrimination and breaking their own hate-speech laws.
Oppopity@reddit
_Brimstone@reddit
Exactly, thank you for linking the evidence.
Narcotic-Noah@reddit
I mean, I’m absolutely against this law and Neo-Nazism, but who are you to say that those people don’t have a right to feel upset and offended by those messages? The article also cuts off most of the quote, the full message being,
“We know that young men aged 18-30 are most likely to commit hate crime, particularly those from socially excluded communities who are heavily influenced by their peers. They may have deep-rooted feelings of being socially and economically disadvantaged, combined with ideas about white-male entitlement.”
Certainly something I don’t think is particularly offensive, but again, that’s something that I could see some people thinking is pretty negative.
_Brimstone@reddit
It's the kind of racist message that they'd be offended about were it targeting any other group.
Their statistics are also spurious considering their hesitance to charge anyone BUT white people with hate crimes even when the crime is blatantly racially motivated.
Reitter3@reddit
Yeah, its just using these examples to prove their case, while in fact a lot more people than only the extremes are against this law
Jinshu_Daishi@reddit
r/SelfReport
Sync0pated@reddit
No, not really. They’re reporting their opposition.
JealousAd2873@reddit
This is working beyond anybody's wildest dreams!
PerunVult@reddit
LMAO. That's one way of knowing you are doing good things for the world: having THOSE people criticise you.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
What’s wrong with them?
ReaperTyson@reddit
Rowling has jumped on the anti-trans wagon, Rogan is on a weird streak of agreeing with the far right, and musk has become a full on conspiracy theorist madman.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
What did Rowling do that’s anti-trans? Rogan also agrees with center, left and far left, so?
CMRC23@reddit
https://www.glamour.com/story/a-complete-breakdown-of-the-jk-rowling-transgender-comments-controversy
Also associated with known genocidal maniac Posie Parker even after being alerted to her nature, among other things
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
This article is just talking about the 2020 tweet where she took offense about women being called "people who menstruate". That's wasn't anti-trans.
I do not know this person, what has they said that's genocidal?
What other things?
CMRC23@reddit
https://www.vox.com/culture/23622610/jk-rowling-transphobic-statements-timeline-history-controversy
Maybe this will be easier reading for you.
As for her affliation with Posie, here's a great video on the topic.
https://youtu.be/Ou_xvXJJk7k
The specific instance she went mask off though, is probably when she responded to a picture of a trans woman critic by saying "I don't see a woman, I see a man" and then proceeded to say some disgusting things that I don't remember the specifics of. I can find the tweet if you're still not satisfied.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
bro, i'm not watching a ~30 minute video about some person.
CMRC23@reddit
Yes, the part where she said a trans woman wasn't a woman.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
Where she's not bullied and is not defending herself against her bullies?
CMRC23@reddit
I can't think of a reason why being transphobic would ever be justified, even if she was being bullied (she's not, she's rightfully being called out)
Unfortunately, you seem to be trolling. I'm not going to waste my time any further with you. Thankfully it is a known fact that Rowling is a transphobe, and nobody decent respects her anymore.
If you would like to actually try, here's some information on what trans people are actually like, instead of the bullshit you're being fed http://transactual.org.uk/facts-about-trans-lives/
Otherwise, see you never.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
Not gonn be bullied my friend. You and your white saviour complex bully mentality can go to the hellhole that other bullies come from.
CMRC23@reddit
🤡🤡🤡
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
Clicky
CMRC23@reddit
I ain't clicking that
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
But it does indicate our collective belief that you are wrong
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
So?
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
Just stating the obvious, same as you.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
The obvious being people don’t know how to use Reddit?
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
The obvious being that one of course downvotes don't mean your gaurunteed to be wrong, its just that we just all think you are.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
That’s not what downvotes are for. Also, you aren’t telling me what did the Harry Potter lady say that’s anti trans.
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
Different person, not my argument. But anyway, I'm gonna downvote you because I disagree that this is, indeed, what downvotes are for.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
So, you agree with the other person?
Tell me, what’s wrong with rogan when he also agrees with right, center,left and far left.
What did Harry Potter lady say that’s anti trans?
Ammmmm, no.
Forcistus@reddit
I mean she describes herself as a TERF and it's pretty easy to find her stances on Trans people online
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
I don’t know what TERF means. What’s her stance on trans people which group her in the same group as neo nazis?
Forcistus@reddit
She is not in the same group as Neo nazis, they just both are upset by this bill, it seems. TERF stands for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. She's been posting and saying things that are generally antitrans for a few years now.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
I'm assuming that's buzz words to say for women who don't think trans women aren't women? Meah.. distractions.
AFAIK, her tweet was in-accurately considered anti-trans. Has she said anything else that's anti-trans?
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
I don't feel like putting myself into that argument, so no.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
But you put yourself into the argument by making a comment, what am I missing here :? You know you couldn’t just not commented right?
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
I'm just commenting on your "downvotes don't make me wrong" bit. Like no shit dude, we just all think your wrong.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
But you are wrong tough…. And you just telling everybody you don’t know how to use this site.
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
Nuh uh. You are.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
Are you 8?
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
Maybe
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
👍
RagePrime@reddit
Your downvotes are coming from people who would say, "Sea Horses are horses," with a straight face if their friends told them it was moral.
wewew47@reddit
Because sea horses and horses are of course analogous to trans people...
DefinitelyNotMeee@reddit
You mean by saying that only actual women are women? What a horrible thing to say ... /s
squngy@reddit
She said a whole lot more than that.
To begin with, her initial statement was that trans women are just men dressing up as women in order to rape them in woman's bathrooms.
JealousAd2873@reddit
Liar. Her "initial statement" was that trans people can be who they want, dress how they want, and sleep with who they want, but that "sex is real", which it is. You nasty little bullies never quit with the lying though.
CMRC23@reddit
Oh no, standing up for minorities against bigotry is bullying! What a shame!
Fuck JK Rowling and fuck you.
JealousAd2873@reddit
Case in point.
They don't listen to what's said, they react to their own fevered imaginations. Thanks for presenting yourself as a prime example.
CMRC23@reddit
You're welcome. See you in 20 years when you've been solidified as on the wrong side of history.
JealousAd2873@reddit
Hmm I'm not sure about that. Authoritarian bullies trying to force their views on others don't tend to be looked back upon favorably. You might just be smelling your own farts with that comment.
CMRC23@reddit
Heh. Of course, we're "authoritarian", just for wanting healthcare, recognition, and to be able to piss in peace. Keep saying it, maybe someone will believe you.
JealousAd2873@reddit
You can already do all those things, but you'll pretend you can't so you feel justified in treating others like shit.
Also, recognition? Lol do you want a medal too?
CMRC23@reddit
I want to be able to change my name and gender on my passport without going to mordoor and back.
And sure, i can easily get medical care! Wait no, I can't. Before the pandemic it was 5 years for a first appointment, now it's an estimated *twenty years*. That or pay upwards of £6,000 for surgery if i go private. Not to mention all the funds earmarked for the gender clinics that was taken by other services, or the fact that i never had the oppourtunity to go on puberty blockers. But the most egregious example is the lack of an informed consent model. The gatekeeping costs lives every fucking day.
On top of that, hate crime rates have skyrocketed because of fearmongering. I and several of my friends have been forced to use radar keys because there's basically no gender neutral bathrooms around.
Every fucking day i'm worried about dying, and i'm lucky - my black trans women friend always tells me about how fucking afraid she is. I know so many people that are homeless because of transphobia.
So yes, it is an issue.
JealousAd2873@reddit
You think it should be easy to change your gender on your passport? You're dreaming.
If you want cosmetic, gender-affirming Healthcare, then pay for it, the NHS is for people with medical problems, not for gender aspirations.
Any individual use bathroom is gender neutral, quit inventing things to be upset about
Your problems are not greater than anybody else's. You're just too chauvinistic to pull your head out of your ass.
CMRC23@reddit
Gender dysphoria is a health issue. That's what the NHS is for. Maybe we should kick people with eating disorders or depression out next? Or if you're that worried about NHS resources being used then you could always kick me a few grand :)
As for gender on passport, yes it should be easier.
And I very rarely see individual bathrooms. Personally I believe they should be standard.
re_carn@reddit
Can you give a link to this statement?
squngy@reddit
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23I3AH/
Phnrcm@reddit
That sounds like all feminists messages is men are out there to rape women.
ParagonRenegade@reddit
No it doesn't.
Phnrcm@reddit
Yes it does.
ParagonRenegade@reddit
Feminism and transphobia have literally nothing in common
Phnrcm@reddit
That isn't what i am saying.
ParagonRenegade@reddit
Better not be.
Phnrcm@reddit
and you can stop propping up strawman.
Hay_Fever_at_3_AM@reddit
How about her holocaust denial?
JealousAd2873@reddit
Not being aware of something isn't the same as denying it.
Hay_Fever_at_3_AM@reddit
She wasn't just unaware
Her first post on the topic was just to directly assert that it didn't happen
Later she decided to just pretend she didn't do that and then say that "all trans research wasn't burned" which is not what anyone claimed, but still, a significant amount of research from the institute was completely destroyed by then
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1767925285008064592
She went out of her own way to antagonize trans people over this "lack of knowledge" for no real reason other than that she's a transphobe who needs to do transphobia whenever she can because that's become her main objective in life.
JealousAd2873@reddit
I've seen the tweets and saw no reason to suggest she knew about nazi plans regarding trans people and was engaging in denial. She gave every indication that her disbelief at the claim was rooted in her own ignorance of the subject, which isn't denial.
re_carn@reddit
Googled it - calling this "holocaust denial" is too much of a stretch.
AbjectAttrition@reddit
You're wasting your time. Him describing Elon's affinity for the Great Replacement Theory and gross antisemitism as "Musk being Musk" gave it away. The dude is sealioning.
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Musk doesn't seem particularly antisemitic atm. Though I expect the attractor in social space he's currently trapped in will get him there soon enough. :(
(It's really annoying how views tend to cluster and correlate)
Snaz5@reddit
Rogan is like, the perfect representation of a lot of what’s wrong with people in america. They aren’t necessarily evil, but theyre just so so so gullible that whenever they hear someone say something with conviction, they just automatically believe them, and then get into this echo chamber that completely warps their worldview until they no longer understand how the world actually works. Rogan made the mistake of listening to a few nutjobs and was completely ripped off his rocker
Y_Sam@reddit
They're heinous douchebags ?
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
Ahhan? So?
Y_Sam@reddit
So they tend to be wrong about a lot of things ?
Sorry, do you suffer from some form of comprehension issue I should be aware of ? This is pretty self-explanatory
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Sadly, there isn't a particularly strong correlation between being a douchebag and being wrong. I've known some rather skilled douchebags in my work and plenty of absolutely lovely people who were very ignorant and wrong.
ForeignCake4883@reddit
You tend to be wrong about a lot of things, so are you a heinous douchebag?
Y_Sam@reddit
Who isn't ?
I try not to, unlike the people previously mentioned.
ForeignCake4883@reddit
Indeed, so what makes them heinous douchebags? They're wrong about being wrong?
Judging by your post history you are about as successful in trying as the people previously mentioned.
Y_Sam@reddit
They're being heinous because they can't stand being wrong ?
Who gives a fuck, I'm not their therapist.
Probably why I don't do professional narcissism on Twitter, less witnesses that way.
Still, I feel like I've got a long way to go before I make transphobia a pillar of my identity so there's that.
ForeignCake4883@reddit
So they're just like your average redditor. Based on that, I'll buy your hypothesis.
Y_Sam@reddit
I suppose so. But with a fandom, which makes it even sadder.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
Being wrong at things makes you a douchebag?
Are you a douchebag as well,then?
Yes, go on with the personal attacks… because both of us know you have nothing substantial for your opinion.
Y_Sam@reddit
You've got your causes and effects mixed-up.
No need, I think this answers my question pretty well.
pigeon_shit_evrywhre@reddit
👍 you as well. I’m sure you’ll crawl out of your mothers womb sometime. It’s a wonderful world, you’ll love the experience.
Y_Sam@reddit
Still doubt there's something out there that makes me find Musk or Rogan tolerable. Now that would take some doing.
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Reverse stupidity is not intelligence. The law is genuinely bad because it removes the requirement for hateful intent and does not have truth as a defense, see 4.1.b.ii of the law here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/section/4
(I've yet to find anyone who seems to have actually read the law without me pointing it out to them)
The law as it stands is overly broad and would cover you sending a pic of a celebration in red square about an attack in Ukraine to your whatsapp group and saying "The Russians are cunts!", as it is both insulting to the Russians and the picture of the atrocity is likely to stir up hatred towards them.
Oppopity@reddit
Trying to paint all Russians as cunts because of the actions of the Russian government and trying to get your friends on the same page is hate speech yeah.
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Imprecise language in a casual setting should not be a crime. Particularly because English, like all living languages, is full of ambiguity between "for all X", "for most X", "for at least one X", "for the stereotypical X" and "for the relevant subcategory of X determinable from context".
Oppopity@reddit
That's why as you would know the law includes this:
equivocalConnotation@reddit
To repeat myself: Imprecise language in a casual setting should not be a crime.
Even if it might result in an increase in hatred.
The chilling effects and the euphemism treadmill that would result would HUGELY damage discourse as people start being more and more euphemistic to the point where it becomes impossible to mention true facts because they'll be interpreted as a call to hatred (as those actually TRYING to call for hatred will have repeatedly been forced to euphemise to the point where they literally just state the true facts and their fellow haters know exactly what they mean. We can somewhat see this effect even now as mentioning you value "free speech" is now considered a dogwhistle for pushing transphobia).
Untowardopinions@reddit
It could be used by Zionists to suppress and punish criticism of Israel, is the example I usually give.
Oppopity@reddit
How so?
Untowardopinions@reddit
This law gives the Jewish Defamation League a weapon to use against anyone who describes what’s happening in Gaza as a genocide. They already classify support of Palestinians as inherently antisemitic. Now they can anonymously report people for anti-Semitic hate crimes, with no external requirement for validation that the accusations are true- and it will be logged on people’s criminal record.
Oppopity@reddit
They can certainly make complaints yes but that doesn't mean they'll be found guilts of inciting hatred.
Untowardopinions@reddit
You don’t have to be found guilty. It gets recorded in your file as a “non crime hate incident”, which will turn up on an enhanced DBS check. This has happened to people already so please spare me the “ahckshually that would NEVER happen” schtick.
Oppopity@reddit
The article doesn't say anything about anonymous reports going on your criminal record.
Untowardopinions@reddit
Well I invite you to consider that the guardian may not be the best source for accurate information on this issue. Google non crime hate incidents and choose a source you consider legitimate- I can assure you, it is happening.
Oppopity@reddit
I don't know why you're bringing up something not on the post and then telling me to learn about it myself but go off I guess.
I found this source that mentions what you're saying and it says only specific cases like jobs that need a thorough background check can show non-convictions.
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/what-are-non-crime-hate-incidents-and-will-police-scotland-tell-your-employer-you-have-one
Untowardopinions@reddit
Uh, you don’t know why I’m bringing up something relevant about the legislation that people find wrong and problematic? I would think that’s self explanatory… I’m actually allowed to bring up facts pertaining to the subject? And you people are always fussy about where you’ll hear the truth from, so giving the Google terms and allowing you to pick your own source saves time.
Anyway, I’m not your teacher, parent or guardian? I actually think it’s a little weird you needed me to tell you how to check if what I was saying was true. Do it yourself.
Oppopity@reddit
You made the claim you provide the evidence.
Untowardopinions@reddit
No, you chose to respond, do a basic level of work on your end. Are you one of these new kids everyone is saying is too dumb to know how to find things out for themselves? I heard of you but didn’t meet any but…
JealousAd2873@reddit
Leftists don't research, they react
equivocalConnotation@reddit
This is not a left vs right thing. As far as I can tell 99% of redditors don't research and the general population is about the same.
RydRychards@reddit
Tell me you like silencing others without telling me you like silencing others.
And I even agree that musk is a moron (don't know the other two well enough to have an opinion one way or another)
Oppopity@reddit
Free speech protects your right to have opinions from the government. It isn't absolute and has many restrictions in place already. You can't go into an airport and yell "I have a bomb and I'm going to kill the president", then claim free speech when you're arrested.
This law which has already been in place for decades is being updated to protect people from violence for something they have no control over.
RydRychards@reddit
First it's "it doesn't protect you from other people", then "the government can come after you". Sorry, but where is the red line in your reasoning?
You can sweet talk literally everything. If you are happy with the law you should be happy about all people, including the ones in the article, using it to protect themselves from "violence"
Oppopity@reddit
You draw the line when the law infringes on free speech. Actual free speech, not "I should be allowed to say whatever I want and be free from consequences".
And I brought up the fact the law was already in place because people are making it out like this is some new law that will end free speech. If that were the case, then free speech would've been destroyed decades ago.
RydRychards@reddit
If it already was in place and nothing changed they wouldn't have updated it.
Since they updated it something must have changed.
Oppopity@reddit
They updated it to include age as a protected group, used more modern wording to describe gender, and included all the groups in the law against inciting hatred which previously only included race.
RydRychards@reddit
Ok and what is the issue now with all people making use of the new law?
Oppopity@reddit
The issue is the reporting system where anyone can give an anonymous tip for the police to investigate and so they're getting flooded with a bunch of fake ones.
Levitz@reddit
Man I spent so many years thinking we were past censorship.
Turns out a whole lot of people aren't against censorship, just against being censored themselves. They are totally fine with silencing others. Disgraceful.
Clbull@reddit
Ok so Rowling is a TERF, and Musk is an egotistical moron. What is Rogan, aside from an anti vaxx meathead who thinks his opinion means anything cause he used to do MMA?
JealousAd2873@reddit
And what are you, if not a culture war casualty?
_Brimstone@reddit
He's a good person who is supportive of freedom of speech and other foundations of a healthy democracy, along with the other two.
re_carn@reddit
Lol, that's what Russian propaganda says: "If they criticize us - it means we're doing the right thing!".
Fyzzle@reddit
Oh man here they come!! Brace yourself!
Analyst7@reddit
I'd love to call in with a complaint about the 'marxists' next door talking bad about me. This laws is one of the worst bits a leftist population control so far.
Oppopity@reddit
What are the marxists saying next door about you that violate this law?
Analyst7@reddit
I guess they can call me a racist, bigoted, misogynist, white supremacist and that isn't considered 'hate speech'??
Oppopity@reddit
Not according to this law no:
for a stirring up racial hatred offence to be committed, a person must behave in a manner that:
a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and
either–
in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or
a reasonable person would consider the behaviour or the communication of the material to be likely to result in hatred being stirred up against such a group.
Analyst7@reddit
Regardless of the areas cited all "hate speech" is the opinion of those in power. Man has a right to Free Speech, at least in the US. An law stating otherwise is govt overreach.
Oppopity@reddit
You do not understand what free speech is.
Free speech protects your opinions from the government. It isn't absolute there's always been limits.
You can't for example, go into an airport and shout "I have a bomb and I'm going to kill the president" then get mad that your free speech was infringed when you were arrested.
Analyst7@reddit
But you should be allowed to go there and shout 'I hate all brown people because they are dirty' and not be arrested for it. Just because it's improper speech should not empower the govt to act. Next saying 'Biden is a liar' will be hateful and then it gets interesting.
Ambitious_Dig_7109@reddit
As nobody reasonable would consider that harmful or abusive the Marxists are fine. The law was written with discretion in mind.
Analyst7@reddit
By "discretion" do you mean leftist anti-conservative bias?
Ambitious_Dig_7109@reddit
As you mentioned ‘ leftists population control’ in your first post I can only assume you see plots and conspiracies everywhere. The rest of us just call it reality. The reality that ‘Marxist’s’ talking badly about you is not a hate crime.
The law, which came into force on 1 April, says a person commits a criminal offence if they communicate material or behave in a way that a “reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive”, with the intention of stirring up hatred, based on a list of protected characteristics.
These include someone’s age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity and variations in sex characteristics. It also includes a crime of stirring up hate based on race, colour or nationality, which was already illegal but is now part of the new act.
Now, don’t you have some phone lines to try and clog up in protest of your ability to harass people being constrained?
Analyst7@reddit
Thankful that where I live such laws are impossible. America has a Right to Free Speech, which includes all forms of offensive speech. Calling it "hate" is just putting an impressive sounding label on simple offensive speech. Such laws are all just levers for the party in power to control their population and reduce freedom. Read your history, the Scots once fought wars for freedom. So sad what's it's become.
Ambitious_Dig_7109@reddit
Oh, you’re American. Enough said. Condolences.
CMRC23@reddit
Your neighbours sound pretty cool
Sync0pated@reddit
Cringe
CMRC23@reddit
No u
cocobisoil@reddit
r/PersecutionFetish
Levitz@reddit
Oh cool, another one of those subs brimming with mentally ill people made to circlejerk about moral superiority.
New-Connection-9088@reddit
It’s like all of Reddit at this point.
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Black_Mamba823@reddit
“The police want to make it illegal for me to harass minorities”
RydRychards@reddit
"people are mad that laws aren't applied equally!"
AbjectAttrition@reddit
...
The things these people take issue with are literally just factual statements. They have nothing to do with blaming white people, neither explicitly or implicitly.
equivocalConnotation@reddit
The new law is shit and neither truth nor lack of intent to stir up hatred is required for a conviction. Read it: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/section/4
Oppopity@reddit
Did. Did you read the law?
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Yes?
Note the contrast around lack of intent between 4.1.b.ii and 4.2.b, that's the main reason why I think it's shit.
Oppopity@reddit
We have this wording in laws all the time. I'm sure you'd make a great lawyer. "No no your honour. My client never intented to hurt/defame/transgress the victim. How could you expect him to know his actions would have consequences?"
equivocalConnotation@reddit
While I can agree with punishment for gross negligence causing problems even without the intent to do so, I believe the punishment for that should be much lower than the punishment for doing the same thing with intent.
In this case that reduction puts it below the thresh hold of what I think the justice system should deal with.
I also hate the fact the truth isn't a defense. To give an explanatory example, if someone sent a true poll to someone else that showed the vast majority of Icelandic immigrants to the UK want to replace parliamentary democracy with an altocracy (rule by the tallest person) with the caption "Icelanders are democracy-haters", this would be illegal even if there was in fact a general consensus amongst Icelanders that we should be ruled by the tallest person in the land.
Oppopity@reddit
This is that whole 13% meme all over again. Any reasonable person can tell the difference between discussing how socioeconomic factors influence marginalised groups in society, and someone sharing a video of a crime taking place that happens to be a black person and using a true fact to try and paint black people as inherently criminal.
drink_with_me_to_day@reddit
One's factual statements it is "dog whistling" of others
Levitz@reddit
The quote The Guardian is used was cut intentionally. They are purposefully trying to paint a narrative, that's why they focus on neonazis and not on the law being dogshit.
Here is the website:
https://www.scotland.police.uk/what-s-happening/campaigns/2023/hate-crime/
here is the ACTUAL quote:
mrdescales@reddit
Facts are hate now? Weird
Beagle_Knight@reddit
Wasn’t Yousaf statement about too many white people, racist?
AbjectAttrition@reddit
What precisely are you referring to?
Beagle_Knight@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/s/SWOSRMFOlB
AbjectAttrition@reddit
Can you paste it or something? I tried clicking your link but it just reloads the page I'm currently on.
kimchifreeze@reddit
That's because it's linking to your original comment. lol
Don't know what he's talking about either. If he wants to quote the article, he should do that.
AbjectAttrition@reddit
Well, that explains it lol
Beagle_Knight@reddit
Would you say that the comments made by Yousaf about white people, were racist? Therefore the complains against him (as mentioned in the article) are valid
AbjectAttrition@reddit
What comments about white people, dude? All that's here are racists wrongly interpreting "young men aged 18-30 are most likely to commit hate crimes" as anti-white. Why are you unable to expand on what you're specifically talking about?
philo_something93@reddit
You know what comments he is referring to. These comments have been everywhere on social media since some months ago when he stated that there were "too many White people" everywhere.
Everybody knows it. You are just reluctant to see the truth.
Forcistus@reddit
Why can't you just quote the comments?
voidlandpirate@reddit
Humza listed a bunch of influential positions in Scotland and said "White" after each one. I'm actually surprised he didn't get punched in the face.
AbjectAttrition@reddit
You people really just operate on vibes, huh
Beagle_Knight@reddit
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/watch-in-full-humza-yousafs-white-people-speech-that-has-sparked-racism-complaints-under-scotlands-new-hate-crime-law-4578704
:) sounds like he is guilty of the crime
AbjectAttrition@reddit
Once again, what the hell are you talking about? It's a long speech he gave that, upon reading the entire thing, doesn't appear to have any anti-white racism in it and merely touches on the systemic racism that exists in the UK.
Post the specific quotes you take issue with or please sit down.
voidlandpirate@reddit
Complaining that influential positions in a country are held by the native population implies that they did not gain those positions by merit and that positive discrimination is necessary, which is racism.
Next_Math_6348@reddit
The police disagree. Any specific quotes from that speech that you believe are illegal?
Darkling5499@reddit
I'm assuming the 2020 speech where he basically complained that there was too many white people in power - https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/watch-in-full-humza-yousafs-white-people-speech-that-has-sparked-racism-complaints-under-scotlands-new-hate-crime-law-4578704
_Brimstone@reddit
Of course it was. That's the point. The people supporting and passing these laws are explicitly racist.
Untowardopinions@reddit
Honestly I thought it was stupid and offensive, not necessarily racist. He’s just moronically generated American talking points for his internet poisoned adolescent voters. Scotland is 96% white- exactly what percent of its ruling bodies should be POC? What percentage of Pakistans government is black? It’s just stupid. It’s not applicable. Scotland is ethnically homogenous because immigrants didn’t want to move there, because there’s not much money in it, and it’s very cold and remote- not because they were driven out by racism.
Next_Math_6348@reddit
The police disagree. Any specific quotes from that speech that you believe are illegal?
RydRychards@reddit
So it is fine too say that there are too many poc in power?
MonsutAnpaSelo@reddit
idk man going on a rant that there are two many white people in charge of Scotland, a white country that is over 90% white seems a little much
imagine going to south Africa and saying there are too many black people in charge
Forsaken_Hat_7010@reddit
Really?
AbjectAttrition@reddit
Ah yes, because members of an anonymous, racist Telegram server are reliable narrators. No need to analyze the reality of what was said through citations and explanations.
Sarctoth@reddit
But the facts make them look bad!
Zerei@reddit
Oh no, censorship laws coming back to bite people in the ass? Who in this dystopian world would've guessed, uh?
Shandrahyl@reddit
I thought this politician was complaing about to many White ppl. Was the Video about him saying this deepfaked?
Da_reason_Macron_won@reddit
The Guardian seem to have conveniently removed one adjetive from that quote. I wonder why would they do such a thing, since they are a perfectly objective media dutifully fulfilling the goal of informing the public.
Oh well, I will now completely accept their narrative that only the evil neonazis could possibly have an objection to this legislation and never question it.
I am sure that an erosion of civil liberties by a government on the pocket of capital will never backfire on me.
Sync0pated@reddit
A skin color adjective?
Da_reason_Macron_won@reddit
The original version of the campaign has been scrubbed (to hide the public embarrassment) but it went.
Sync0pated@reddit
Wtf why is skin-color antagonism trendy on the left
Da_reason_Macron_won@reddit
I would certainly not call any of these race-war peddlers "left". If anything they are the result of the working class left being systematically eradicated since the 90s.
When you successfully train people to not engage in class struggle the only thing left are these identitarian fights.
Sync0pated@reddit
That's fair, but you must acknowledge that there is a large, if not by now a majority, contingent of leftists who would look at an argument as yours and call you a "class reductionist". Less so than the "race"-obsessed fringes on the right in my estimation.
Android1822@reddit
Just because neo nazis did this, does not excuse the horrible orwellian dictator law that was passed. People defending it will be next in line to be rounded up if you disagree with the government.
Oppopity@reddit
May I ask how exactly? They just updated an existing law that has been in place since 1986. They added age as a protected group and updated their definition of transgender to be more accurate to our modern understanding, and included the protected groups in the law against stirring up hatred which previously only counted race:
The test for the offence remains the same as it is under the Public Order Act 1986, so that for a stirring up racial hatred offence to be committed, a person must behave in a manner that:
a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and
either–
in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or
a reasonable person would consider the behaviour or the communication of the material to be likely to result in hatred being stirred up against such a group.
Wend-E-Baconator@reddit
He wasn't that far off
SunderedValley@reddit
We do a little trolling.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
More nazi tears please
_Brimstone@reddit
The demand for Nazis to oppose far exceeds the supply.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Which is a good thing. There should be no nazis or commies.
_Brimstone@reddit
Agreed, but what I'm saying is that while there's not a significant number of Nazis, the far left of the West will declare everything they do, every atrocity they commit, as necessary to fight non-existent Nazis. The tactic is so effective that even Putin did it to justify his invasion of Ukraine.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
I completely agree. They have bastardized the word and will use it as a pretext to silence things they don’t like.
suiluhthrown78@reddit
Thats a very 2024 Guardian take on it
Its a silly law that the Guardian probably would have opposed themselves a few years ago, they would have said that it would have 'chilling effects on free expression', 'gives police too much powers', or similar
PerunVult@reddit
I commented once already, but I just can't help myself. So, crime statistics are only "true, factual and objective" when they concern black people? What's that US crime stat racists love to quote? 13% or something?
Besides, original statement doesn't even include race at all. Why they feel it's "anti white"? There would bevsome substance to claim that it's sexist, but claiming it's "anti white" is just telling on themselves.
Levitz@reddit
Because The Guardian is a utter fucking disgrace and cut the quote in order to paint a narrative. Shame on them.
From the very website of the police:
https://www.scotland.police.uk/what-s-happening/campaigns/2023/hate-crime/
Levitz@reddit
Because The Guardian is a utter fucking disgrace and cut the quote. Shame on them.
Emphasis mine.
Forsaken_Hat_7010@reddit
The racist one I'm not sure, I've seen it change too many times and I don't know where it comes from. On the other hand, the other day one of arrests makes and... well, I'm going to put the link and run away.
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Ouch, those murder numbers.
(the disparity is nowhere near as large as the male-female difference though!)
Forsaken_Hat_7010@reddit
Comparing race and gender statistics is most curious when done through ideological lenses.
For example, prison sentences for blacks are 30% longer for the same crimes, and for men 70% longer. The right takes the opportunity to criminalize blacks (and justify punitivism), but ignores men; while the left points to this as evidence of systemic racial discrimination, but criminalizes men. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
balsar87@reddit
Its like both of those sides care only about their agenda and not the truth. Weird right
equivocalConnotation@reddit
Note: A statement being true doesn't seem to be a defense for this law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/section/4
MuseSingular@reddit
All neo-Nazis, mhm, sure
Black_Mamba823@reddit
Scottish people when they have to be productive members of society instead of shouting racial slurs at minorities 😡
HelloThereBoi66@reddit
Saying an entire ethnic group are unproductive and also complaining about racism?
DukeOfGeek@reddit
If this was Scotland you could report him lol.
flightguy07@reddit
As someone from Aberdeen: that's only about 5% of the population, but they're obviously extremely vocal.
Phnrcm@reddit
Don't people know being offensive is an offence?
bivage@reddit
This article is a steaming pile of dogshit. Far right group - None are named. Leader of the far right right group - No one is named.
Not 1 bogus hate crime report cited, no actual numbers of reported incidents, not 1 comment from Police Scotland saying they were being inundated with false reports.
The truth of the matter, Humza Yousaf, a unelected unqualified cunt is leading the race in hate incident reports with his famous 'Everyone in Scotland is white speech' and the people reporting him are normal people, sick of his shit, and not the far right.
Acceptable_Stuff1381@reddit
Good, it’s a garbage law. But, I don’t live in Scotland so, if they want to throw each other in jail over memes far be it from me to stop them. I will point and laugh though, and post some illegal memes of my own to appreciate the freedom we take for granted over here lol
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