I got to see fat Albert JATO in person at my local air show. I was volunteering for the best placed guest spot. So I was serving drinks, but had an amazing view of the JATO. One of the coolest things I’ve seen.
What happens if those boosters fire asymmetrically? Even if one side only partially lights off, I can’t imagine you’d have control authority at that stage to correct and there’s no ejecting from a C-130, so is it just cookies for the crew ?
Those rockets are pretty close to the centerline, and the Hercybird has a giant rudder to counter an engine failure at V1 on the critical engine without the prop feathering. Not saying it wouldn't cause problems and I've never flown a Hercules, but I would love to hear from somebody who knows.
Assuming no surrounding obstacles, it's close enough to centerline that you'd definitely be able to respond to and control the situation with all 4 up. By leveling off and accelerating, you rapidly and drastically lower your Vmca3, so that'd improve things even more.
If you lost the number 1 on rotate, you'd definitely have to reduce power on 4 and lower the nose immediately if you're doing a true max effort. The J model will do this automatically under Vmpr, but can be overridden if required.
I think that was the original intent. I think during Operation Eagle Claw, part of the plan was to land a C-130 in a football stadium and have it take off using JATO with Americans who were being held hostage.
The J models with the Rolls Royce engines get the same performance with motors alone. That's why there are no more rockets. Easy way to identify is the 5 blade props on the newer aircraft.
One of the best aviation facts I know was that they had one of these with the rockets literally retrofitted (i.e. in reverse orientation) in order to land it in a stadium in Teheran to extract the hostages during the 1980 hostage crisis.
This thing can land on incredibly short runways for its size and weight. Shorter runways than it could take off from. Which is still pretty short, they are pretty amazing birds.
The soccar field story is why the JATO was invented, and also what make the Pentagon finally ralize the need for a VTOL medium-heavy lift like the Ospry.
How much does that shorten maintenance intervals for fuselage inspection and life limits? That sudden banger on the structure seems like the same load cases of one of the hard landing and max g overload scenarios aircraft aren't designed to handle frequently
I've heard people talking about how it would add a bunch of hours off the airframe all at once, but I've never found an actual source stating how much.
I believe the JATOs are installed in place of the air deflector doors. The doors themselves have a speed limit, but it's very likely the mounting point was stress tested by Lockheed well before the JATOs were installed.
I know that some have the capability for that, but I'm pretty sure this one is all show. The one I saw do this for real didn't shoot as many sparks and also used them from the beginning of the roll
I saw this move at the last airshow ever at MCAS El Toro. It was almost shocking watching something that wasn't a fighter go up that fast, at that steep of an angle, and then just level off and keep flying like nothing unusual had happened. Impressive.
the1stAviator@reddit
Not so good if someone on the ground fires a 'heat seaking' missile. It'll be a very big "OOPS"
Monolith_Preacher_1@reddit
you wouldn't really want to take off in a place where you can get heatseekers fired at you the moment you leave the ground
Capital-Highway-2868@reddit
For a second, i thought the Jato Failed and Exploded
Realistic_Fault5064@reddit
RATO
ToQuoteGeorgeCarlin@reddit
If this would have worked, and we got our people out of Iran like we wanted to, that would have been almost as epic as the bin Laden raid.
invester13@reddit
Soooo much C02
MajorMoron0851@reddit
I got to see fat Albert JATO in person at my local air show. I was volunteering for the best placed guest spot. So I was serving drinks, but had an amazing view of the JATO. One of the coolest things I’ve seen.
Lrrr_von_Omicron@reddit
What happens if those boosters fire asymmetrically? Even if one side only partially lights off, I can’t imagine you’d have control authority at that stage to correct and there’s no ejecting from a C-130, so is it just cookies for the crew ?
Karl24374@reddit
That’s why they wait until we’ll after VMCG to light them up
Tortex_88@reddit
More right rudder
DashTrash21@reddit
Those rockets are pretty close to the centerline, and the Hercybird has a giant rudder to counter an engine failure at V1 on the critical engine without the prop feathering. Not saying it wouldn't cause problems and I've never flown a Hercules, but I would love to hear from somebody who knows.
Mr_Harmless@reddit
Assuming no surrounding obstacles, it's close enough to centerline that you'd definitely be able to respond to and control the situation with all 4 up. By leveling off and accelerating, you rapidly and drastically lower your Vmca3, so that'd improve things even more.
If you lost the number 1 on rotate, you'd definitely have to reduce power on 4 and lower the nose immediately if you're doing a true max effort. The J model will do this automatically under Vmpr, but can be overridden if required.
Real_Eggplant170@reddit
Yea I think this was a reason they stopped using them. Also the J model is stupid powerful anyway so putting JATO on it would just be overkill.
taint_tattoo@reddit
I bet you could take off from a football field with those things going.
Stock_Ad_8145@reddit
I think that was the original intent. I think during Operation Eagle Claw, part of the plan was to land a C-130 in a football stadium and have it take off using JATO with Americans who were being held hostage.
MAGASig@reddit
Bring Back Fat Albert !
Fourteen_Sticks@reddit
Fat Albert never left. Only the JATO bottles did.
yojibby@reddit
Bring back JATO Bottles!
jyguy@reddit
They’re still used on occasion in Antarctica on the LC-130’s when they take off from unprepared skiways
DTW_1985@reddit
The J models with the Rolls Royce engines get the same performance with motors alone. That's why there are no more rockets. Easy way to identify is the 5 blade props on the newer aircraft.
Monkey_Fiddler@reddit
But rockets = even more performance!
Bahnrokt-AK@reddit
Yah, I know. Why not both?
My_Soul_to_Squeeze@reddit
There's a C-130A parked outside the Lockheed plant in Marietta, GA. Modern noise design, but three bladed props.
No doubt held together by bird shit and the spirit of Hercules at this point, but it looks pretty cool.
Kotukunui@reddit
I thought the “J” model had six bladed props…?
DTW_1985@reddit
Yes, and they also come with better proof reading skills than I do.
MapPractical5386@reddit
Wait really? I few years ago I saw the BA in Salinas, CA and they were announcing how Fat Albert was being retired at the end of that season.
flyboy1964@reddit
Yes....the C130A had 3 bladed props, but probably not many people remember them.
DTW_1985@reddit
They did retire the aircraft because they got a screaming deal on a virtually new airframe from the British Royal Air Force.
Fresh_Wonder_7862@reddit
I'm in Pensacola. I've never seen a JATO takeoff but see them flying almost daily. Fat Albert isn't going anywhere. It hauls their gear.
MAGASig@reddit
True…should have put that more succinctly… I’m getting old LOL 👴🏻
mattincalif@reddit
It’s always calming to see a giant flame coming from an aircraft fuselage. /s
Pilot_212@reddit
I rode along for a JATO takeoff on Fat Albert. It was pretty wild, and loud and violent.
GrumpyFalstaff@reddit
Oh god Im so jealous. I saw fat Albert do one at an airshow when I was a kid, the context of the experience was lost on me but it was so cool to watch
matreo987@reddit
how rapid is the acceleration from the seat perspective? what a cool experience.
Pilot_212@reddit
Not super rapid, it adds the equivalent trust of another engine, it’s just loud, a bit of a kick, and gives you a very steep takeoff pitch attitude.
Leadman19@reddit
Saw ole Fat Albert do that at Point Mugu NAS in CA back in ‘82 I think. It was awesome!!
Traditional_Sail_213@reddit
That’s some KSP crap there
TokinGeneiOS@reddit
One of the best aviation facts I know was that they had one of these with the rockets literally retrofitted (i.e. in reverse orientation) in order to land it in a stadium in Teheran to extract the hostages during the 1980 hostage crisis.
TokinGeneiOS@reddit
Just to clarify: They (unfortunately?) opted for the fake film crew solution.
kandeman69@reddit
But why? For short runways? But if the runway was short they wouldn’t land there.
mrshulgin@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis
The plan was to land and take off in a soccer stadium to rescue hostages.
rincewindnz@reddit
This thing can land on incredibly short runways for its size and weight. Shorter runways than it could take off from. Which is still pretty short, they are pretty amazing birds.
Important-Ad-6936@reddit
thats one lame jato. they already had takeoff speed to begin with . must have been an airshow where they played it safe.
therealjerseytom@reddit
First I've heard of this one. That is WILD! 😅
qaf0v4vc0lj6@reddit
The soccar field story is why the JATO was invented, and also what make the Pentagon finally ralize the need for a VTOL medium-heavy lift like the Ospry.
pcnetworx1@reddit
But the rocket laden plane is just so much more badass
maxehaxe@reddit
How much does that shorten maintenance intervals for fuselage inspection and life limits? That sudden banger on the structure seems like the same load cases of one of the hard landing and max g overload scenarios aircraft aren't designed to handle frequently
Jukeboxshapiro@reddit
I've heard people talking about how it would add a bunch of hours off the airframe all at once, but I've never found an actual source stating how much.
Mr_Harmless@reddit
I believe the JATOs are installed in place of the air deflector doors. The doors themselves have a speed limit, but it's very likely the mounting point was stress tested by Lockheed well before the JATOs were installed.
Bahnrokt-AK@reddit
The Government: You have to use paper straws to save the environment.
Also the Government:
l0st1nP4r4d1ce@reddit
Strap one of those JATO rockets to a old Chevy Impala, and then you got something!
(I was lucky enough to witness one of these takeoffs when I was a kid. Super cool to watch.)
-burnr-@reddit
IIRC, someone did just that with some purloined JATO bottles and a Volkswagen. It ended about how you would expect
Rz225@reddit
Lol what a T.O.
YoureGrammerIsWorsts@reddit
They always look like sparklers more than anything useful
Pan_Pilot@reddit
Well surprise surprise, they all give around 8000 pounds of thrust so they are more than useful
YoureGrammerIsWorsts@reddit
Obviously they are useful, but they still look like sparklers
LearnYouALisp@reddit
you mean per side, I'm seeing 1k per rocket
DasbootTX@reddit
I seen that live twice. 😍
EngorgedBreasts@reddit
Seen't*
axelfay85@reddit
I imagine a fair bit of work must occur to prevent damage to the airframe from heat?
Optimal-Menu270@reddit
Hell yeah
ASPEEDBUMP@reddit
Who puts out the grass fires?
outdoorsman997@reddit
Hey Hey Hey it’s fat Albert
Big-Carpenter7921@reddit
I know that some have the capability for that, but I'm pretty sure this one is all show. The one I saw do this for real didn't shoot as many sparks and also used them from the beginning of the roll
PigDiesel@reddit
Hey,Hey,Hey it Fat Albert!
raivats@reddit
Pretty sure they tried this as a rapid deceleration mode too, I'm sure someone can find the video but from what I remember it didn't end well.
DTW_1985@reddit
I think for the Iran thing
bddgfx@reddit
I saw this move at the last airshow ever at MCAS El Toro. It was almost shocking watching something that wasn't a fighter go up that fast, at that steep of an angle, and then just level off and keep flying like nothing unusual had happened. Impressive.
Feeling-Secretary175@reddit
Jato baby!
quarterlifecrisis49@reddit
JATO kicked in yo!
b_vitamin@reddit
Hitting V1 be like.
doctor_of_drugs@reddit
Your username is gold
doctor_of_drugs@reddit
JATO fans eating well tonight
Ok-Resolve4550@reddit
Nearly every C-130 up to the H model had the hardware installed on the deflector doors at factory just in case…
E0490@reddit
It’s me or the aircraft at the end it’s on fire..cheers
NightRamp4ge@reddit
Did the horizontal stabilisers light up? That can't be good
ComprehendReading@reddit
Just a reflection. Showbirds have glossy paint.
Confident-Ad4752@reddit
Yeeaaaah fat albert
Certain_Question9001@reddit
Nobody commented on the slightly burned tailplanes... is/was that normal?
integrity0727@reddit
Fat Albert was awesome!
Gray_Scooter@reddit
How fun that would’ve been!! Puts those Max Effort Takeoffs to a whole new level!