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Amazon Abandons Grocery Stores Where You Just Walk Out With Stuff After It Turns Out Its "AI" Was Powered by 1,000 Human Contractors

Posted by Moonschool@reddit | programming | View on Reddit | 49 comments

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49 Comments

rlbond86@reddit

I've seen this story pop up a few times now but it is all sourced from a single source "The Information" which is paywalled.
View on Reddit #23622296

notimmortalyet@reddit

I believe the source makes it seem like these people just labeled training data and test data
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justin-8@reddit

That is what it says. That they were required in 700/1000 transactions to verify and use the data to train a model. While the goal by this time was 50/1000. So, not going well. But also just seems like non-tech folks misunderstanding things in tech. Most of the articles refer to it as generative AI too which is a bit of a laugh
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rayray5884@reddit

I’m in tech and while I’m aware of training and the likelihood of using no small amount of humans to do that, I don’t ever remember hearing about that aspect from Amazon? It was all flashy demos and ‘magical’ tech. So I sort of get non-techy people misunderstanding the reality here. Given my limited experience with these stores (I went opening week and as recently as a month a go) this makes a lot of sense though. I don’t recall any of my receipts arriving earlier than like two hours after I walked out.
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theophys@reddit

Lol 70% of it was the training boundary? And they went ahead and did a whole chain of stores?! Did they at least see promise in a smaller dataset? Or were they just like "big data make us money gods!"  
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stingraycharles@reddit

Journalists will be shocked to find out that ChatGPT’s training data was actually produced by hundreds of millions of people!
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untetheredocelot@reddit

I work for the Zon. Not on the Go stores project but another team dealing with ML that require human review sometimes. This is super common because Amazon tries to be careful when confidence is anything below like 95% on our team atleast. We have a team of people who do manual reviews for accounts flagged by our systems. This is a good thing. Now them being contractors and not paid nearly enough is a another topic altogether.
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pseudosciencepeddler@reddit

> This is a good thing. How exactly is this a good thing? For this system, 70% of transactions needed human review (against the performance target of 5%). The entire system relies on human labour, simply for the convenience of not doing an actual check out.
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untetheredocelot@reddit

I was more referring to humans being in the loop and ensuring that what’s being done is correct.
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pseudosciencepeddler@reddit

The 70% statistic is available in other reports, [here](https://gizmodo.com/amazon-reportedly-ditches-just-walk-out-grocery-stores-1851381116) and [here](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/1000-indians-part-of-amazons-generative-ai-driven-just-walk-out-project-in-fresh-stores-report-101712118547238.html) for example.
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programming-ModTeam@reddit

Your posting was removed for being off topic for the /r/programming community.
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os12@reddit

LOL, another round of Theranos.
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FullyStacked92@reddit

Sounds like average shitty journalism with no idea about what they're on about. The store's were powered by machine learning algorithms with the goal being a minimum amount of human input and checking required. It didn't go as well as they had hoped and they ended up needing humans to check results a lot more often than they had hoped.
View on Reddit #23626646

FlukyS@reddit

Yeah this is a catchy headline but they did have AI just they also had humans to train the model by auditing the results. It may have even been staff reviewing all video footage for quite a while but that doesn't mean they didn't eventually have a model. Just sounds like a shitty application of AI that was abandoned rather than Amazon lying about the tech.
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WriteCodeBroh@reddit

If humans have to verify 70% of transactions, wouldn’t you agree that Amazon was at the very least being a little misleading?
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FlukyS@reddit

Depends on how much the human is helping really, if it's just "AI is 60% sure of this thing y/n" I'd take it as still AI driven work even if a human had to double check.
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Swoo413@reddit

Isn’t that basically what the article says?
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link_29@reddit

I'd argue it's a bit misleading because to me the headline makes it sound like the AI was fake and it was solely the workers doing the work.
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Synth_Sapiens@reddit

Reeks of fake news.
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deja-roo@reddit

It's more like editorializing. To the point I wouldn't call it "news". Just a rando's opinion article. Couldn't help but throw in hot takes: > Apart from relying on cheap, outsourced labor instead of paying fair wages locally
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Spyder638@reddit

There’s one of these opening very soon near where I live, so it doesn’t seem like they’re planning on stopping.
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gefahr@reddit

A city near me has had an Amazon Fresh "ready to open" - like signs up, cart corrals out, the works. For two years. Local media confirmed it's not hung up in any sort of inspections, Amazon just... hit pause.
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thegininyou@reddit

It does but if anyone, I could see Amazon doing it.
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alicia-indigo@reddit

I thought they were just ditching the “walk out checkouts,” not the actual stores. https://gizmodo.com/amazon-reportedly-ditches-just-walk-out-grocery-stores-1851381116
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balthisar@reddit

We have about 10 Amazon Fresh stores in the region that were built up through 2022, and have sat vacant through 2023 and now, having never opened.
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neodiogenes@reddit

I shop almost exclusively at my local Amazon Fresh, because A) the prices are really good, especially when they toss in 20% discounts on the entire purchase, and B) I love the "dash cart" that allows me never to talk to another human being. However the entire experience makes me doubt the store is profitable. I've no data to support my suspicion, but I get the feeling it's there as a laboratory to track -- and, ideally, predict -- customer behavior, and refine things like just-in-time inventory management. The cart itself is clearly a kluge that, granted, fills a niche, and v2 improved on some of the problems with v1, but was unlikely to be engineered to be anything but a stopgap measure until they can refine the technology mentioned in OP's article. But this is why I think so many stores are lying fallow, because they actually would cost *more* to open for business. Amazon's strategy may just be to acquire the real estate against the day when the more advanced stores can open and then can really start to dominate. Right now it's still R&D.
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Membership-Exact@reddit

> I love the "dash cart" that allows me never to talk to another human being. > > We deserve everything we will get.
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zazzersmel@reddit

regardless it was a stupid ass marketing stunt of a concept
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davidellis23@reddit

I mean I thought it was nice and convenient.
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eigenman@reddit

Because it didn't work. Walking out with stuff you didn't have to pay for is probably really nice and convenient.
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davidellis23@reddit

Sure but one day it'll be a nice improvement.
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zazzersmel@reddit

a lot of stupid stuff is lol
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hanumaNRL@reddit

slave labor is nice and convenient
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OptimalOptimizer@reddit

Contractors aren’t slaves you cotton-headed ninny muggins
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hanumaNRL@reddit

Yeah they also said the FIFA World Cup stadiums were constructed by “contractors”. Guess what their living conditions and pay was clown.
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Nidungr@reddit

Copilot being powered by a thousand programmers in India would explain a lot.
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Specialist_Brain841@reddit

Automated Intelligence
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rydan@reddit

When they say it was powered by 1000 humans are they referring to Mechanical Turk? That seems like something they'd do.
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ripter@reddit

Pretty much. A lot of automation is really just some people in India. I worked for a company that did comment moderation of news sites. We sold it as AI. It was really a team of people in India. The AI part was having that remote team flag stuff so we could train an ML. But the actual moderation, 100% human.
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Specialist_Brain841@reddit

thi is why it is AUTOMATED INTELLIGENCE not ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
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LeatherDude@reddit

AI = Anonymous Indian
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granadesnhorseshoes@reddit

It's standard practice for tons of shit, especially AI related stuff. Those annoying automated phone systems that take voice prompts? There are call centers somewhere with a bunch of people that never take any calls directly from customers. They just get audio snippets (with zero context for user privacy) of what users said when the computer isn't sure itself and then tell the computer what they meant. One such system that's fairly mature i babysit shows about ~80% success from the IVR itself most of the time. These are nationwide phone lines and staffed by well under 1000 people so maybe Amazon just really sucks at it.
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eigenman@reddit

A lot of butthurt in this thread it seems. "AI" will take yer jerbs!! Guess not.
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obsertaries@reddit

Human labeling is the basis for AI training. I hope at least some people are learning something from this bullshit headline rather beyond just “AI is a scam!”
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o5mfiHTNsH748KVq@reddit

They said labeling. It seems like someone misunderstands the concept of labeling the context of computer vision.
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IgnisIncendio@reddit

Doesn't sound believable to me, considering that these sort of stores exist in other countries too, not run by Amazon. Is it more of manual reconciliation and training?
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notimmortalyet@reddit

Yes the 1000 people were used to label video data which is used to train the models
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_wombo4combo@reddit

I legitimately think it would be easier to make an automated system for this. There's no way this is true lmao.
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icemelter4K@reddit

Can someone let r/singularity know? s/
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