What’s going to happen with these ‘abandoned’ Alitalia 777s?

I have a feeling this will lead into the world of Italian politics... combined with the odd world of legal enities. But it seems they are being stored in Rome from my early googling

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techrmd3@reddit

spot on comment I do wonder what entity "owns" the birds and what entity "owns" the notes on them

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siddizie420@reddit

Usually they go to receivership to whoever financed them. Bank, government, fund etc. they auction it to get part of their money back. In this case I’m guessing it’s the Italian government.

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At least one has been re-registered from Italy to Ireland since the demise of Alitalia, so likely the lessor has control of them. (https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-32855.htm) but I haven't yet found out who that lessor is

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

The successor(s) to Guiness Peat Leasing, whoever they call themselves now.

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DrSuperZeco@reddit

Probably will be chartered by middle eastern airlines during summer and/or hajj seasons.

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SpaceMarine33@reddit

didnt the government take control of italia?

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plhardman@reddit

Indeed. Looks like the plane on the left EI-ISA is [owned by](https://register.flyinginireland.com/register/aircraft.php?Registration=EI-ISA) Aircraft Purchasing Company No. 12 LTD (very cool and buzzy name) who is [described as](https://centreforaviation.com/data/profiles/lessors/aircraft-purchase-fleet-ltd) ``` an aircraft leasing company based in Dublin, Ireland. The company is wholly controlled by Toto Spa (an Italian holding) and was incorporated in 2008 to act as a capacity provider for Alitalia. ``` So yeah, the wacky Byzantine world of aircraft leasing and quasi-state-run entities.

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backcountrydrifter@reddit

So Ireland for the “double Irish” tax liabilities work around. Why Italy? Everybody I knew was registering them in Montana Wyoming and South Dakota? What’s the international version?

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amptoeleven@reddit

Ownership is in Ireland for tax reasons. Registration is in Ireland because it’s much easier for a lessor to deregister the plane from the Irish reg than the Italian one if push ever comes to shove. Pretty common given the number of restructurings and insolvencies of Italian airlines over the years.

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backcountrydrifter@reddit

That’s perfect. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. Thank you.

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SubjectiveAssertive@reddit

That is some epic research

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backcountrydrifter@reddit

My favorite thing about Reddit is when you stumble on a subject matter expert.

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Go_Jot@reddit

As someone with absolutely no understanding of Italian political whatsoever, I am now curious

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00STAR0@reddit

I’ll take one off their hands

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Unknown8128@reddit

I think ITA doesn’t plan to use those since they have an Airbus only fleet now. But no idea what will happen to them and why they are in FCO

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BillyBeeGone@reddit

Air Canada is always looking for used birds, they just picked up 2 used 330s for the short term lease (waiting for the 787-10 2026 deliveries). Wonder if they are interested in 777s

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interstellar-dust@reddit

These are 777-200s AFAIK and no one wants to use them anymore. Maybe they get converted to cargo. Also I don’t think they have been maintained in flyable condition. The engines are all covered up. So it will take some work to get them flying again. Who knows maybe Air Canada will take them, Air India has been picking up 777-200s from Delta as they can’t find planes to buy. Maybe they will be interested. Either way this will be interesting to watch.

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SwissCanuck@reddit

Air Canada only operates “next Gen” 777s (77W, 77L) and wouldn’t touch these with a 10 foot pole. More likely at United or BA etc that already operates the type or as freighter conversions.

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matsutaketea@reddit

BA wouldn't take a plane without RR engines

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vdj76@reddit

I’m pretty sure they had some issues with the GE90s early on but they currently have both, the G-VIIx fleet has the GEs on them

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AceCombat9519@reddit

Correct the ones that are RR Trent are the G-YMMx fleet. In the ground the [GE90 G-VIIx fleet engine spins clockwise. while if you see this spin the Otherway around UK/Australia Anti clockwise US counterclockwise](https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=744817&p=10720549&hilit=Shaft+clockwise+GE#p10720549) it's a BA G-YMMx fleet RR Trent 800. In the case of AZ B777-243s these have the GE90s like a BA G-VIIx fleet and UA B777-224/ER fleet. In AZ Skyteam alliance you're looking at a AF B777-228/ER KL B777-206/ER 2006-2019 CZ B777-21B/ER GE90-94B

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748aef305@reddit

I mean, they operate the 77W (aka 777-300ER) and that's a GE exclusive, so...

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jpr64@reddit

Even Air NZ got rid of its 772 fleet, though probably regretting that now as its leasing additional 773’s to fill the gap of the Dreamliners out of service.

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NetworkDeestroyer@reddit

I can def see Air India snagging these up, especially with the PHAT order they have with both manufacturers this could def help till those orders get delivered especially in a long haul stand point.

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interstellar-dust@reddit

They are flying 777-200s to SF. And other direct destinations. I guess the B787 is too small for those routes. Plus those are all deployed daily to Europe. It must be mad scramble over there. Plus their Boeing orders might get delayed due to all the issues Boeing is having.

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Yummy_Crayons91@reddit

777-200ERs don't have much interest cargo wise, all the conversions proposed were for 77L or 77W aircraft. It's hard to find a second hand owner for 77Es as the A350 is the exact same size and much more efficient and off-lease and used A350s are starting to pop up in the market. Delta was interested in picking up 777-200ERs to expand their international fleet in the early 2010s as complete, well maintained aircraft were going for $5-10 million, but ended up removing the 777 fleet for A-350s instead. If I had to guess these might have a chance to be picked up by a Euro summertime charter outfit, but will likely sit derelict or broken up for parts.

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Wernher_VonKerman@reddit

I believe IAI or someone else floated a 77E cargo conversion and as it turns out it would have only 3500nmi or so of range because of MTOW restrictions. Given the location of most US and european cargo hubs, that's really not enough to bridge the gap between them without a stop in YYR or SNN or something.

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acuet@reddit

Delta uses its AirFrance partnership AirFrance uses both Airbus and 777-200s. Last time I was in FCO, they were flipping all the liveries to ITA. Wonder perhaps if the new German Ownership will take them? [Source](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/lufthansa-ceo-heading-rome-discuss-ita-airways-deal-ansa-news-agency-2023-05-25/)

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DutchBlob@reddit (OP)

Especially because these 777s are still popular and used everywhere around the world. It’s not like Alitalia left some old MD11’s behind at FCO.

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interstellar-dust@reddit

ITA picked up some of their Airbus narrow bodies. They don’t want these 777-200s. They are focusing on all Airbus fleet.

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JustPlaneNew@reddit

They are relics of a not so distant past

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shortAAPL@reddit

I think they’re -200, I doubt there’s a big market for them these days

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Master-Quarter4762@reddit

Maybe some Japanese carrier would pick it up? ANA flies high density 772s on some domestics. I’d imagine that it would be quite cheap to snatch now.

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Joehansson@reddit

Well since Alitalia went bankrupt they couldn’t let it disappear for good. Therefore Italian government had to step in to save the flag carrier. But Italy has been in financial trouble, receiving a lot of loans from the EU. I can’t be for sure, but my best guess would be the EU would only lend them money if they would become Airbus only, for obvious reasons. Hence why TAP and Aegean like ITA have an all Airbus active fleet. Portugal, and Greece have received extensive loans from the EU to sustain rough times, just like Italy has. The ‘old’ 777’s could have been the losers in this negotiation. This or Europe is actively trying to switch to Airbus for another reason. Other European countries that haven’t been in financial trouble; Germany, France, Netherlands and formerly the UK all still have mixed active fleets for their flag carriers. But it’s a best guess, at best.

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Rexxxdog21@reddit

I took a regional ITA flight last summer from Rome and the plane flown was an Alitalia 737 (still with livery) with an ITA sticker slapped on.

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SteO153@reddit

I was in Florence last weekend and I saw an ITA plane still with the Alitalia livery. They still have few around without the old livery, probably just getting them repainted with the normal maintenance cycle, and don't spend extra money on it (which looks incredible savvy for ITA/Alitalia) >with an ITA sticker slapped on. That's pretty much what ITA is. I remember when their website went live, it was just the Alitalia website with a new logo, inspecting the code you could see all the calls still with alitalia in their name.

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Sfrinkignaziorazio@reddit

Alitalia did not operate 737 (apart from some -200 in the 90s), and Ita has an only Airbus fleet. The aircraft you flew on was an a320/a319 from the old Alitalia fleet, (very few of them now are still in Alitalia livery).

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Conch-Republic@reddit

Ass to ass!

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Peabeeen@reddit

Another airline is going to get them, or they might be scrapped. Personally, they should be on display at a museum as Alitalia doesn't exist anymore.

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HemiMoparLover@reddit

Man I hope these birds find a new home.

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hjturnbull@reddit

Might convert them into freighters

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G25777K@reddit

Aircraft are old and not worth the hassle of a reconfiguration for the interior. They are EASA aircraft and the amount of money that would have to go into them is more than they are worth today. Average value today for a 22 year old 777-200ER (in picture) is around $6.5Mil if your lucky, these probably have not flown in a while and will go for way less. I'd say take the engines and part the rest out.

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rushrhees@reddit

I imagine either a charter would buy or end up in a boneyard 772s not very desirable anymore

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tigerman29@reddit

Could be converted to make a couple awesome bars if they’re just going to end up in the boneyard

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Wernher_VonKerman@reddit

I can't imagine FCO gets too unbearably humid most of the year - probably not as bad as TG flying A380s to UTP and basically abandoning them for four years (or their A340s which were only a little better looked after and for twice as long.) So they'll probably be fine there until they get a buyer. But I imagine parking fees might be cheaper at VCV or TEV for sure

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