Haha that’s hilarious my last hellcat charger I sold rattled in the driver side seat belt area and cargo trunk area was so freaking annoying. My new 2023 Charger HC WB has almost no rattle whatsoever which to me makes a big difference. Plus when people beat on the cars before they are broken in the axle whines all the time at highway speed another reason I got rid of my last one that drove me crazy at 75mph
I've also driven one of these. Mostly agree with the good.
As for the bad:
The infotainment is terrible Dodge infotainment. The air conditioner took forever to get cold. The seats are not comfortable, nor ventilated, which seems like a must in a top trim car these days. The rattles were extremely bad. The seatbelt on the one I rented liked to lock up randomly when I wasn't doing anything also. Also shocking they removed adaptive cruise and front collision warning on the Hellcat even though it was available on the low trims.
>Also shocking they removed adaptive cruise and front collision warning on the Hellcat even though it was available on the low trims.
Adaptive cruise was never available on the hellcat charger/challenger since the intercooler occupied the space where the radar sensor is on the naturally aspirated trims
I didn’t use the infotainment much aside from the SRT modes. I got along great with the seats and mine were ventilated and heated. Anyways, yea the rattles were annoying sorry to hear about your seatbelt experience. I didn’t know the other models had those features with the radar. I’m not a huge tech guy when it comes to cars but, I agree at the MSRP it could stand to have more especially if it’s on other models.
I have a feeling the perceived better steering had something to do with the Charger having better weight distribution. Because they have the same exact steering rack AFAIK. Interesting though because in your case, you're talking about a Scat Pack Widebody handling worse when those have the stiffest suspension out of *any* Charger or Challenger.
I know theres a Diablo suspension controller that is a plug and play swap with the factory unit in the trunk and supposedly that helps a **LOT** with the handling. I wonder if the Redeye rental had that.
As for the rattles, they seem hit and miss. Some cars have them, some don't. I'm on my 3rd Challenger. The 1st two had over 100,000 miles when I got rid of them and I'm at 26k on my current. The 2nd one had a slight rattle somewhere in the dash only when it was below freezing and only over harsh bumps. The other two were/are rattle free.
On the transmission comment. You said you rented a C8 before, so you should know that even a good ZF box doesn't hold up to a good DCT (not to mention the PDK). Whether or not it's necessary for you is one thing, but they are noticeably quicker and more engaging, as far as autos go.
The ZF is every bit as good as the DCTs on the market. It’s not a compromise anymore.
The GT4 cars that use them all across the globe have no problem keeping up with the Cayman’s of the world. The BMW M4 GT4 used one and took the 2023 IMPC championship. And yes, they are production gear boxes because they aren’t running with a waiver like the Mustang Holinger or the Camaro Xtrac.
https://bimmerlife.com/2023/10/14/turner-motorsport-wins-imsa-michelin-pilot-challenge-vp-challenge-championships/amp/
On top of this, in the rear world the ZF will lock up the first few gears so you'll get instantaneous DCT-like shifts. I wouldn't mind taking a ZF8 over a porsche DCT at all.
This certainly depends on the tuning, but the shift speeds from gears 1-3 in the ZF boxes are crazy fast.
I had a Challenger Hellcat and it was pretty snappy, but nothing incredible.
But in my M2, when I set the transmission to its most aggressive shift mode, the upshifts from 1-3 are lightning fast.
Full disagree. Driving a ZF back to back with a good DCT makes it super easy to tell the difference. There are situations in which the ZF can behave almost as good, and there are some other advantages, but it's just not as good as a good DCT.
mclaren, ferrari, lambo huracan, and porsche 911s use DCT because they are more engaging and torque converter automatics can't really handle rpms past 7-7500. this is why the new s58 m3 engine, despite having the same displacement, is limited to 7200 while its predecessor the s55 can go to 7600. the vette needed it because the z06 revs to 8500.
just depends on what you like. i'll take rpms over torque/power any day.
Let’s flip this question on its head. Have you driven a sportier car with the ZF 8HP? There’s a reason people never have a bad thing to say about them. Chrysler in particular does a shockingly excellent job at tuning them, at least in their V8 applications. Sharp shifts when you need them and nearly imperceptible shifts when you want them, having driven a few Rams and a Chrysler 300C 6.4. I could see why the OP doesn’t necessarily feel like the Charger needs a dual-clutch.
Yep driven the C8 DCT and drove the 991 PDK. I don’t want to take anything away from those gearboxes. The ZF is really good in the charger. Quick shifts, smooth, and good response. It doesn’t make me want for a DCT.
> It made me wonder why we need DCTs when we have automatics this good.
For hybrid purpose cars (e.g. daily-able sporty cars, or track-able dailies) we don't, really.
Outside of C8s, Porsches and a few mid-range vehicles (RS3, Golf, Elantra N), almost any high HP dailyable vehicle, especially German, uses a 8-10 gear torque-converter auto.
Mustang & Camaro use the Ford / GM 10-speed.
The (inhale): BMW M2, M3, XM3, M4, M5, M6, XM, M8, Audi RS4, RS5, RS6, RS7, RSQ8, Dodge Challenger, Charger, Durango, RAM TRX, Jeep GC Trackhawk, Aston Martin DB11, Vantage, Lamborghini Urus, Porsche Cayman, and Toyota GR Supra all use the ZF-8 8-speed torque-converter transmission for performance appliccations.
Now the thing is that the OEM still has a lot of leeway in the implementation details; I owned a ZF-8 equipped Challenger Hellcat, and now have a BMW M2 with the same transmission, and BMW's tuning is *way* better.
The same ZF-8 is also used in vehicles that are oriented towards comfort (BMW 7 series, Bentleys, Rolls Royce) or offroading (Range Rovers, Grand Cherokees, Jeep Gladiators) and the tuning is much more geared towards comfort than shift speed.
DCTs are cool, and certainly optimal for serious spirited or track driving; there's a reason the 718, Cayman, and C8 use them - but for something that is still intended to be daily driven, and doesn't spend most of its time on the track, I don't believe there is a major difference in the experience between the ZF-8 and a DCT.
I owned one of these for 2 years and daily drove it for 6 months. What you experienced aligns to what ownership is. They are very fun and very not serious. It's way better than one would think, and I liked it better than the Challenger I test drove.
I didn't have any rattles on mine, but since I didn't put that many miles on it maybe it was only a matter of time. The rear view camera is absolutely terrible.
You also forgot the giant trunk to help make it a practical every day car. On a few occasions I had 8 40lb water softener salt bags in it. Other than the MPG and being not great in winter (even on dry winter days it struggles for traction because of the sand on the road plus less soft tires), it really is a fantastic every day car.
Very cool. Thanks for sharing. What ultimately made you sell it?
Yea the rattling could have been anecdotal. I really have no clue the history of this vehicle. You’re right, as much as I love a hatch. I think the trunk is so large it could replace my hatchback.
Life is what made me sell it, not the vehicle.
When I originally bought it, I had a Wrangler as a primary and the Charger was the secondary vehicle. Life was good. Then about a year ago my (long term) girlfriend decided she wanted a Wrangler, and we didn't need 2 Wranglers, so my manual blue Wrangler transformed into an automatic pink Wrangler somehow. I DD'd the Charger through the summer knowing I needed to either get another second vehicle or get rid of it by winter since I live in the northeast and ski.
I was all over the place with different options, from getting a shitbox old Tahoe or Silverado and keeping the Charger to getting an RSQ8 or Cayenne Turbo and everything in between. I knew I wanted something that could tow, which made things more complicated (so E63 or RS6 wagon were out).
When I found a Trackhawk in good shape for what would basically be a straight trade for the Charger I went for it. It's an SUV so I can toss dogs or stuff in the back, it can tow 7200lbs, it feels faster than the Charger because it has traction, and with snow tires on it's great in the snow. It doesn't handle nearly as well, steering is a bit numb, and it doesn't have the same level of intake whine (easy to fix as soon as winter is officially over).
It is surprising how the car handles. Most people dismiss it before even trying it, just thinking it's a fat boat that just lumbers down the road.
It really is more nimble than one would expect.
And the fear about it getting stolen is real. Just hope I can sell mine before it gets stolen.
> just thinking it's a fat boat that just lumbers down the road.
Comparatively, they are correct though. It just depends on what you are coming from. Suburban to Charger? Yeah, it'll feel nice. 911 to Charge? It feels like a lumbering boat.
Yea me too. I hope you never have to experience that. Also, that’s good to know the scat pack widebody handles well too. I guess it’s a charger WB thing then? Have you ever driven a hellcat widebody to compare?
Went from regular body Scat pack charger to widebody Redeye charger and handling was so much better on WB. I assume it's mostly the wider tires.
I've also driven the regular body hellcats on the track and they weren't as good as WB (those were challengers though)
Thanks for sharing! Thats good insight. Yea could be the wider tires. Or if theres some suspension changes? It certainly was not what I was expecting. I was like why the hell does the charger have such good steering lol. Yea I’m real curious on the challenger HC WB.
I have not driven a hellcat yet. Cannot say I really feel a big desire to.
The WB scat has all the same features, such as adaptive suspension, brakes, and tires as the hellcat, just not the motor. So perhaps it is a widebody thing.
My previous car was a '17 Charger RT and it did feel heavier than my current car.
It's really massive, with how heavy the car is the joke is that the rt is the v6 version with better sound. The only upside with the rt is the 5.7 is very boost friendly compared to the 6.4
Had my 392 Durango stolen and recovered about 7 hours later. Totally ruined the car experience for me despite having minimal interior damage done. Kept it for another year after kitting it out with multiple security systems but still. Never felt right driving around something so commonly stolen. Felt like I had a target on me. Carmax bought it in a heartbeat and it was a huge relief.
Exactly why I got rid of my TRX. Loved the truck in every other way except that if you live anywhere near a big city, you have a target on your back. Even with security systems, the hassle of being followed, broken windows, ripped up interior etc. outweighs the fun. Some owners itch at the chance to "catch" a thief in action, personally my life's not worth a car.
Sucks that we can't have nice things
I just always thought it was funny that people used that as some sort of insult. Like, if i wanted a heavy car to drive well, mercedes would be who i wanted involved in that anyway lol.
Most people don't know that a cars "suspension" is everything from the components, type, and basic geometry. As if every car with a double wishbone, McPherson strut, 5-point, etc are "basically the same" as any other car that uses them.
And Mercedes at the time was basically making German muscle cars.
It was incredible really.
4 door AMGs were equipped with supercharged V8s.
Everyone was praising the Big 3 for the return of RWD V8 coupes and sedans.
Obviously it was a different price range and market so I understand why Mustang, Charger, 300, Magnum and GTO got the attention.
But AMG was basically doing what Dodge did in the mid 2010s when they brought out the Hellcat.
> Most people dismiss it before even trying it, just thinking it's a fat boat that just lumbers down the road.
> It really is more nimble than one would expect.
There are crossovers that handle better. Try driving an X3M or Stelvio Quadrifoglio and then revisit that opinion. It's a fat boat...a fun fat boat.
For some reason, in the charger I drive, I could not find a position where I could comfortably rest my head and neck on the headrest. It’s like the top half of the seats was angled too far back.
Oh interesting, in what way was it uncomfortable? I didn’t have any issues with the Redeye seats. Could be my weird body dimensions lol. I don’t really fit in my GT-R or my Veloster N. Maybe if I had it longer I would have noticed something.
Damn, that sounds awful. I didn’t experience anything like that. The bottom seat bolster was soft. Nothing about the seats was all that notable. I just thought they were comfy.
The V6 trims have different seats. R/T and up have the thicker side bolster seats. I made a 1k mile trip on mine and it was like sitting on the couch the whole time. I did have a 300 rental one time and those seats were awful. Not sure if they're the same as the SXT.
I had a similar experience in a challenger rental I had. Was supposed to be semi longterm rental while my car was fixed after I hit a deer, but I ended up taking it back to enterprise on day 2 and begging for anything else they had on the lot, no matter what I did I couldn't get comfortable and it was actually starting to hurt my back.
Nice review. What happened where your rental got cut from 3 to 1 day?
I enjoy the handling in mine and it's always a joy to daily on back roads. The weight in the front definitely becomes apparent in tight turns at speed. I've been lucky in that I've had 0 rattles in the challenger and now charger I've owned. Everyone else seems to have received mine.
Thank you so much! Which dodge trims have you owned? He is being investigated by Turo for some kind of negligence. Which doesn’t put him on good terms with the insurance company that turo works with.
I had a 2015 Challenger R/T Plus Shaker that had all the bells and whistles and was a 6 speed. I traded it for a 2019 Charger Scat Pack that is more bare bones but still has heated seats, steering wheel and added Android Auto. Challenger had about 75k when I traded it in in early 2020. Charger has about 30k. Aside from my wheel lock coming free in the glove box neither had/have any rattles surprisingly. I much prefer the charger.
I drove my friends challenger red-eye widebody. I pushed it on the highway, corners, braking everything. The car's steering was awful and it just felt like a normal rt with double the horsepower.
Had a hellcat charger come in as a used car. I “had to make sure the red key worked” and 3 other techs wanted to come. 4 dudes lightest was 200lb heaviest was 300lb. I floored it at 55mph on the highway and it got sideways. Crazy power.
I had a wb scat challenger and goddamn it was a fun car. I sold it when covid was real bad so I could quit my job for a while and I have thought about it every single day since. I think as much as I like my bimmer right now I'm gonna end up buying a used one soon. Maybe a hellcat from one a recent year where they were all wide bodies.
Yea they leave a lasting impression lol. I sold my C6 Z06 during Covid. I do miss it. I’ve had a V8 sized hole in my heart ever since. Yea the wide body is the way to go!
The fact they didn't have the Tremec as a manual option is the only real downside I could maybe think of for the Widebody. Otherwise, these cars track great for what they are.
It's a bit sad that they're theft magnets, but hey, most muscle cars are. Maybe one day years from now I'll get one from a salvage spot.
You can get a manual in the widebody. The chargers don’t come in manual for any trim. The challenger comes in a manual for the widebody in the 6.4L engines and the 6.2L supercharged Hellcat. The redeye is automatic only. Everything above the regular Hellcat is automatic only for the challenger.
True, I've been lucky enough to test a few of the other options. And the fact the Charger was left completely out was always a bit sad. But it's a numbers/drivetrain thing, so I get why. If you've driven a Trackhawk or TRX, it's a similar feeling that you really don't worry about overall. For the cars, the ZF is perfect for the job.
Your final paragraph is a bit important for me too… American muscle cars are pretty great and have a lot of unique character compared to European and Japanese sports cars.. but I’d never get one because of the types of people who are interested in them lol. Most people I know who like them look down on all other sports cars unless they are V8’s with RWD. Eye roll
>The Challenger 392 WB drove like a boat, tons of body roll, and vague steering. This charger felt a lot smaller and nimble than it is. I don't see a lot of people mentioning that but, it will almost convince you it's a sport car. I'd be curious to know if the regular Charger HC WB or the Challenger HC WBs feel the same way.
Throttle house said the same thing when they drove the Charger 392 widebody, the smaller Challenger actually handles a lot worse.
I owned a 2015 V6 AWD and my experience was that it handled better than it had any right to, especially considering it's as long as a minivan and nearly has the same wheelbase.
My .02 is that the Charger model has a lot better weight distribution than the Challenger and you feel that in corners, it wants to rotate (without throttle) a lot more readily because it's not as front heavy.
That chassis is the one good thing that came from the Mercedes merger, and they have hit the problem over the head with big ass tires Viper ACR style lol
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