FAA Statement on their six-week audit of Boeing and Spirit AeroSystems

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Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

“Hey guys. In the next 90 days could you find the time to maybe figure out how to build a plane without leftover bolts? Tightening all of them would be awesome too. Oh the ones you’re building now? No worries, keep building them and selling them as fast as you can, just get around to writing this memo in the next three months please” P.S. if you could work on that whole “engine destroying itself after 10 minutes of anti-ice” thingy in the next few years that would be ah-MAY-zing. Thanks!! - The FAA probably.

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coastour@reddit

There’s only one manufacturer out there right now assembling planes with engines that destroy themselves…hint: not Boeing.

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sofixa11@reddit

You know that the engines come from a different manufacturer, right?

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Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

That is such a cop out. It’s a Boeing plane. Boeing designed it. Boeing contracted with an engine manufacturer for **their** plane. The days of airlines choosing from different engine options are long gone. Moreover it’s Boeing that chose to not even put a damn timer on the thing. It’s only a matter of time before a different emergency occurs while an air crew is flying in and out of icing conditions and they get preoccupied with something else and the damn engine grenades itself. Boeing needs to focus on designing and manufacturing planes that don’t actively try and murder everyone on board. I trust aircrews to handle emergencies but it’s dumb to keep trusting they can unfuck Boeings designs 100% of the time.

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747ER@reddit

Yeah! Airbus’ PW-powered aircraft really suck, and it’s all Airbus’ fault! Unless you think that’s only true for Boeing?

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Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

Since when did whataboutism work in aviation? Aviation is an inherently dangerous activity placing humans in an environment that they can not survive. We are dependent on engineering solutions to keep us alive and safe in those environments. Unfortunately Boeing has chosen to turn their back on safety and solely look at shareholder returns and it shows. Yea P&W is having dispatch reliability problems with their power plant, and it’s not right either. However, I’ve yet to see Airbus make continued, systematic choices to constantly degrade safety in the pursuit of stock dividends.

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poohtao89@reddit

The guy is a crazy obsessed fan boy- go through his comment history. Leave it.

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coastour@reddit

So when Airbus mounted engines fail at an astronomical rate compared to other new production engines, it’s Airbus’s fault? Total double standard 😂

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Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

Yes. The answer is yes. Airbus built it and they are causing financial issues for their customers. Jesus, this isn’t so difficult a concept.

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jnd-cz@reddit

Of course from customer's view it's Airbus fault. They bought plane which should be operational within warranty and regular maintenance. Customer doesn't care which components you integrate, which you build in house, which are outsourced and how the engineers (or marketers) chose which subcontractor to use. After warranty from manufacturer it's a little different, you have to deal with parts manufacturers directly.

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Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

Uh. Are you not aware of the anti-ice issue with the maxes?

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coastour@reddit

Yes. Can you name one max that has had an anti-ice related failure? The anti-ice issues are actually tied to a change in certification criteria not an issue with the current design. And yes, I know engines are made by different manufacturers from the airframes. Nevertheless the two work very closely hand in hand.

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Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

Can you name the repercussions that will occur if the engine on a max fails in flight because the anti-ice is accidentally left on? I will give you a hint, it’s in the AD. And there is absolutely a design issue with those engines. It’s not just “certification criteria” You guys sound exactly like the engineers at NASA that green lit challenger flying. I mean if nothing has ever happened yet then it can’t possibly happen, amirite? Pilots flying with post-it notes in the cockpit is totally cool. No need to even put in a timer.

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Bad_Karma19@reddit

Insert Bill Lumbergh from Office Space here.

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opking@reddit

The only way to fix this problem is to have aggressive stock buybacks, and cut all R&D. /s

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Whipitreelgud@reddit

Fire the CEO and sack the entire Board Of Directors. Immediately

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firestar268@reddit

Boeing: write that down! Write that down!

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Ashvibes17305000@reddit

Sighhh time to go check for another AD

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blairyc1@reddit

What happens if Boeing weren’t to meet the 90 day deadline?

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

90 days to publish a statement saying they won't do it again. Nice work, FAA.

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carl-swagan@reddit

I mean, that's not at all what this says lol. They're giving them time to draft a corrective action plan, which is what happens after a quality audit when there are findings. I've worked in the aerospace industry for a long time. Plenty of things in the past to criticize the FAA for in its handling of Boeing, this is not one of them - yet.

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AdmiralTinFoil@reddit

Plan-Do-Check-Act. In my decade as an AS-9100 auditor, the checking and acting are often ignored.

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mynam3isn3o@reddit

Auditor here. We come back to check progress against the corrective action plan and if milestones or objectives are missed, guess what? More findings to close.

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

I drafted a "corrective plan". Didn't cost me a thing.

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orcajet11@reddit

I have no idea what you’re talking about, I draft corrective plans (in a different space) for a 121 carrier. I assure you they cost. Often $100ks. Sometimes millions. You don’t get to just say that you’re going to fix things and even if in some magic world you did you’d still be out thousands for the time to make the plan.

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carl-swagan@reddit

I have no idea what you're trying to say lol. This is how aerospace quality systems (e.g. AS9100) work, audits and corrective action plans are the mechanisms by which organizational problems like this are identified and fixed. I'm not sure what you expected the FAA to do here, permanently shut Boeing down?

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

What I would hope, but know better than to expect, is for the FAA to put their own inspectors in the plants and not rely on the foxes to watch the chickens.

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MyNameis_Not_Sure@reddit

They can’t just rewrite the rules because people on the internet are unsatisfied with their actions. The procedures they are following are established and knowing the bureaucracy involved, no one should be surprised. You should know pre-production certification procedures follow similar guidelines as well. The FAA finds issues and the company fixes them… the FAA doesn’t send in engineers to fix the issues. You should also remember that Boeing has a high incentive to fix these issues, because their reputation is tarnished but not ruined yet. So it is not the ‘fox watching the chickens’ as you say

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

No new regulation would be required and there is no regulation that would have to be changed, Boeing managements "high incentive" is to fatten the bottom line so they get bigger bonuses.

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carl-swagan@reddit

No new regulations would be required for the FAA to send full-time government QA personnel to set up shop within a private company and sign off on all of their production? Uhhhhh yeah no. That's not how any of this works.

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

The FAA is charged with performing surveillance. You should learn more of what you're talking about.

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carl-swagan@reddit

As I said, I have worked in an AS9100 environment with FAA oversight for a very long time. I know what I'm talking about. If you think the FAA has the resources, personnel or the regulatory framework in place to employ full time quality inspectors at all of Boeing's manufacturing facilities, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

I'm so impressed,

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carl-swagan@reddit

You always get this butthurt when you’re corrected by people who know more than you?

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MyNameis_Not_Sure@reddit

FAA inspectors can show up and ask to be let in, but Boeing doesn’t have to do anything. Even OSHA surprise inspections must have a warrant probable cause to be there. You fundamentally misunderstand the oversight abilities and jurisdiction of the FAA in this case

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carl-swagan@reddit

That would require major new regulations and likely Congressional approval and funding to even be a remote possibility.

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TraditionPast4295@reddit

The FAA let them get away with it to this point, they can’t slap them too hard.

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

Good point. The whole designee system is corrupt. There is an unavoidable built-in conflict of interest in it.

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llintner@reddit

Where the hell was FAA’s oversight of Boeing BEFORE the Jan 5th incident?

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GhostRiders@reddit

So many people are missing a very important point, the other Aviation Authorities such as EASA. The only reason why the FAA originally grounded the MAX was because so many other Authorities revoked it's license so the FAA essentially had no choice. The fall out was for the first time decades the FAA stamp of approval wasn't good enough for the other Authorities and they did their own checks on the MAX before it's flight status was given. The FAA know that the world will be watching them very closely to make sure that they don't just give Boeing a pass and that they do their job. The FAA reputation which has already taken a massive hit and it will be again on the line. The last thing the FAA as well as Boeing and other smaller Civil Aircraft Manufacturers want is other Aviation Authorities saying that the FAA certification is not good enough and that they go through them if they want their planes to fly outside of the US.

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Kreol1q1q@reddit

I would very much like for EASA to eat Boeing alive. Let them have a taste of how things work when there’s a properly vigilant regulatory agency on their case.

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sofixa11@reddit

It's already kind of the case, EASA were involved in the 737 Max recertification and are involved in the 777X certification process.

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CmanderShep117@reddit

The FAA actually doing their job?!

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Durcaz@reddit

FAA and Boeing just be exchanging some spicy emails about this shit

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Lucky-Development-15@reddit

I have a feeling the FAA doesn't want to hear the public ire and even though it's their own fault, **It rolls downhill...

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BigTribbs@reddit

Its insane how much the FAA has let Boeing get away with in the past 15 years. I'm not nor have ever been a weary flier but I'm starting to second guess taking flights on newer Boeing aircraft.

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coasterghost@reddit (OP)

Monday, March 4, 2024 The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)’s six-week audit of Boeing and Spirit AeroSystems, prompted by the January 5 incident involving a new, Boeing 737-9 MAX aircraft, found multiple instances where the companies allegedly failed to comply with manufacturing quality control requirements. The FAA identified non-compliance issues in Boeing’s manufacturing process control, parts handling and storage, and product control. The FAA is providing these details to the public as an update to the agency’s ongoing investigation. The audit is one of the immediate oversight actions the FAA took after a left mid-cabin door plug blew out of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 on January 5 while in flight. At a meeting at FAA Headquarters in Washington, DC, last week, Administrator Mike Whitaker informed Boeing’s CEO and other senior leaders that the company must address the audit’s findings as part of its comprehensive corrective action plan to fix systemic quality-control issues. The plan must also address the findings from the expert review panel report that examined Boeing’s safety culture. The FAA has given Boeing 90 days to outline its action plan. To hold Boeing accountable for its production quality issues, the FAA has halted production expansion of the Boeing 737 MAX, is exploring the use of a third party to conduct independent reviews of quality systems, and will continue its increased onsite presence at Boeing’s facility in Renton, Washington, and Spirit AeroSystems’ facility in Wichita, Kansas. The FAA will thoroughly review all of Boeing’s corrective actions to determine if they fully address the FAA’s findings. The FAA provided both companies with a summary of the audit findings.  https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/updates-boeing-737-9-max-aircraft

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