> Nissan released pricing for the facelifted 2024 GT-R, with the Premium model starting at $122,885. The T-spec model returns at $142,885, while the top-of-the-line NISMO will extract $222,885 from your bank account. The 2024 Nissan GT-R is still largely the same as the original 2009 model, which cost just $70,850, equivalent to $101,825 when adjusted for inflation.
Gulp.
I mean the current M4 CSL was putting up lap times only a couple seconds faster than the 2012 GTR base model.
The GTR 2017 update added a better suspension and like 80 something HP to the base GTR but I couldn't find lap times for the 2017 update.
Kinda doubt the M4 CSL beats a base model GTR nonetheless the Nismo.
The Nismo and CSL are still both horribly overpriced though.
Yeah but it’s the same idea. For what it is, which is a marginal improvement over the “regular” M4 or M4 comp, it’s really overpriced. I’m not making a direct comparison between the CSL and the nismo as cars more between them and how they fall into their respective model’s trim level hierarchy
You have to be the world’s biggest GT-R fanboy to even consider one at $225k+
Even the most casual car enthusiast knows that that’s just a hair away from Ferrari money. To spend a quarter of a million dollars on a ***NISSAN*** is preposterous
Imagine dropping 300k for one of these and it's not even the fastest car Nissan makes. You'll still get passed by an Altima with its bumper falling off.
Tbf that's true even of a Bugatti. The Nissan Altima is the fastest car in the world. Once the trim starts to fall off the power gets unleashed.
Say what you will, I'm fairly confident that in 15 years those nismos are gonna be worth a fortune. Unless Nissan keeps the R35 going for another 15 years, which at this rate doesn't seem impossible.
Think that's crazy? How about $1.1m on an R35 GTR?
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/02/this-1-1m-italdesign-nissan-gt-r50-is-a-ride-fit-for-tony-stark/
It isn't selling very well, but hey, about 20 people bought it as of now
Why? A top of the line GTR is competing against cars that cost much more than it. Or is it, “omg it’s a Nissan, I can get a more well known brand for cheaper.” Might as well go buy a BMW 320i for like $35k because it’s a BMW.
I think this is pretty run of the mill considering the price increases we've lived through over the past 15 years. The article accounts for inflation, but not the increase in cost of raw materials nor shipping. I'm sure doing a deeper dive on the base spec price comparison would reveal that Nissan themselves aren't making any more money than they used to.
Nismo models are also a hell of a lot higher spec than back in the days of the r34 v spec n1. Carbon everything, down to the brakes. That tech didn't exist. Also the base car does 200 mph, which the older car didn't have to deal with.
This entire article is comparing two completely different era's. It's like comparing a hellcat to an og charger... yeah... imagine that... everything costs more because the speeds are totally different.
> That tech didn't exist. Also the base car does 200 mph, which the older car didn't have to deal with.
Wtf u talking about? R35 always could do 200mph, since 2008. Source: had a 2011
Because the entire point of the article is to stir up outrage over the r35 base or Nismo spec price implying these are no longer cheap sports cars. The GT-R line was never about being the cheapest, just the best Nissan could produce. Everything Nissan is doing with the r35 fits directly in line with how they've treated every previous r chassis, at least back to the r32 when things got serious with it.
Lol terrible antanalogy. "How could you possibly talk about the *previous* generation gtr when discussing the current?!l"
Some people just can't handle a discussion on a mildly wider scope. Def part of why the world is way it is, people can only handle what they want to see or talk about.
Whatever .
>The 2024 Nissan GT-R is still largely the same as the original 2009 model, which cost just $70,850, equivalent to $101,825 when adjusted for inflation.
Lmao that journalism.
They completely ditched the base model and made heaps of significant upgrades over the years. The current model has close to 100hp more than the 2009 base model. Not to mention improvements to brakes, suspension, aero, infotainment, etc.
The premium model from 2009 costs $120k in today's money, taking that into account you basically pay $2000 extra for almost 100hp more, not to mention all the other upgrades over the old premium model.
I know acceleration isn't everything, and I understand that the GT-R has been around for a long time. But *man* was that thing quick (and relatively cheap) back in the day.
When it was introduced in 2008, it was the 3rd quickest car Car and Driver tested, behind the $300,000+ Ferrari 599GTB and $1.6M Veyron (the GT-Rs base price was about $70,000). By 2011, it's base price was up to $90,000 and the 0-60 time dipped below 3 seconds and it was the quickest car Motor Trend tested that year.
To tack on to this, 2008's 70k would be approximately 101.5k today. And I'm sure the new GT-R will have all kinds of extra gadgets and tech the old one didn't as well as have more stringent safety standards and emissions.
So really it's price jump isn't as crazy high as the head line would make you think.
It really helps you provide context to the information. Over half of this car's "extra cost" is actually just the cost of inflation.
An extra 20k or 20%, with all of the supply chain difficulties and shortages, is not the craziest price increase for a car model. Especially considering the tech in the 2008 model is so dated many wouldn't consider it at all compared with a brand new one. While it's a great drivers car, people demand more and more technology from modern vehicles.
They have, though. Median hourly wages have been going up faster in the last three years than they have in decades, and at worst since the 1970's or so they've remained flat relative to inflation. So they either went up, or remained constant adjusted for inflation for like 60 years now.
[https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/)
​
wages have largely not kept up with inflation and corporate profits since the 1970's
You're misunderstanding those charts. Wages have kept up with inflation: chart 1, note how the red line remains flat. Had they not kept up with inflation, the red line would have a downward slope.
What they have *not* kept up with is efficiency, GDP growth, and corporate profits. But why should they? The entirety of efficiency gains came from the growth in business computing and had nothing to do with the average employee becoming a better employee. Why should Bob in accounting get rewarded because Bill Gates launched Microsoft Excel?
enlighten me on how much technology, the *new* gtr, that’s still on the same platform for more than 15 years, has. i can undoubtedly say it’s not 20k. if you, a manufacturer, is making a car for 15 years+, then sourcing the parts will definitely come down over time as it’s not “cutting edge”… because again, 15 years.
as for shortages, sure, i guess you could say that’s a cause as to why it’s cost what it is now, but 20k? not to mention, before covid the base gtr was 99k. i don’t think much technology has changed, less than 3 years ago. also, shortages are just used as excuses to have the prices the way they are. pasta prices are skyrocketing when wheat isn’t an issue, but we’re having a *shortage*.
such a bullshit ass excuse
Guy on here the other day lamenting some run of the mill crossover was the same price he bought a 340i for... but wouldn't say what year that was. People'd rather be outraged than make fair comparisons.
I mean, I'm getting ready to spend $50k on a new Palisade this fall. I never thought I'd spend $50k on something that wasn't an luxury sports car, but that's just what a well-equipped family truckster costs these days. I'm glad I'm not in the market for a pickup.
New GT-Rs are still the same "generation" as 2008, but different chassis code, 80 additional hp, nearly a second faster to 60(not an exact science) and I'd say dramatically updated interior and exterior.
Also, 90k in 2011 is 124k today. Given that the early price was a bit low, and they made several improvements early on and bumped the price to where it probably should have been, I'd say that the 90k -> 124k is about right.
But wages often take a long time to catch up to inflation and other costs, especially housing, education and healthcare, rise at a rate greater than inflation.
So, having $70k in 2008 is much more feasible than havung $122k to toss around today.
Not anymore by a long shot.
2023 GT-R is still 2.9 seconds 0-60.
The 2020 **RWD** Corvette C8 does the same 0-60 with a base price of $60K. The Z06 does 2.6s for $15K less than the GT-R.
The Dodge Demon, Ferrari SF90, Lambo Hurracan, and McLaren 765 are all **RWD** and can all beat a GTR 0-60.
There are tons of AWD cars that can do 0-60 in 2.9 or quicker now too, like a bunch of 911 variants, some of which are in the 2.2 second range which is miles away from 2.9 seconds.
You'll need to go to the $220K GT-R NISMO to start competing nowadays, and you'll still only be in a dead heat with the Z06.
We're not allowed to consider electrics here, right? I mean the OP specifically told us not to.
They are soulless machines for tech bros that aren't real car people. Plus it's easy to make electrics fast so who cares. Speed only counts if it's hard. Built not bought.
/s
Sometimes it’s not about how fast it goes 0-60. I personally think the GTR is badass especially the r34. Is it the fastest car on the road? No not at all. But the sounds that thing makes with the all wheel drive system is a thing of beauty. I would go as far as calling the GTR a piece of art. But too each their own.
Ironic, considering when they came out people called it "as soulless as driving a PC." It's crazy that there's a whole new generation of drivers out now who don't remember how much shit the GT-R first got for being the easy mode of cars.
Because all of the newer performance cars have even more driver aides and less feedback. The new g8x M3/M4 is basically just a posh GT-R. It just took a while for the other manufacturers to catch up.
But people never learn, and continue to complain about the same things in modern cars that they will consider the best cars ever made ten years from now.
At this point honestly 0-60 just doesn't matter much at all. Everything's fast as hell. Fun to drive / handling / style all matter much more.
In the lower price tiers it matters more but even then cheap cars are getting quick enough too.
Yeah I'd love to get a R34, but the R35 is the most realistic option. Nissan was my favorite among the 90s Golden Era, I didn't care really about Honda or Toyota. The NSX and Supra was cool but R34 was everything, and they also had the S13, S14,and S15.
The only two things Japanese auto makers can count on going into the future are 1) Vermont subaru lovers 2) GTR engine sound lovers.
Envious positions indeed.
R34 absolutely. I sold my R35 because it wasn't R34. and no manual. Driving r35 was like piloting a robot - it was too... civil. And going 80mph on a highway felt like you were cruising at 35. Shit even 125 felt like casual ride. Just too sterile and no excitement. Women thought it was Altima, and only men would notice it. Sausage magnet.
When it came out it was numb, and felt like playing a game compared to other fast cars. Nowadays, by comparison to other fast cars, it feels raw and mechanical, while they feel numb, like you are playing a game.
How far we have fallen.
Haha definitely. I owned anwrx sti special edition last year. Was it fast? Not even a little. Could it get gapped but a mini van? Definitely the newer ones lol. But it wasn’t about the speed it was just a fun car all around.
Also keep in mind the GT-R came out before the SUV craze. If OEMs put all of the resources that they put in SUVs into sports cars it would be even more embarrassing now.
I still envy it, but yes it's pass its prime. And if they did a complete overhau to be more competitive it would be priced even higher. GTR doesn't even really compete with the Corvette anymore, and it faces tougher competition from luxury sport cars as its MSRP rises.
> The Z06 does 2.6s for $15K less than the GT-R.
Nobody is getting a Z06 for $110k. And the GT-R is going to hold its resale value better than any Corvette, even though it is currently the oldest car sold new today. They will make more Z06's in the next year than all of the R35 GT-R's made in the past decade. The engine is hand-built. It has a back seat. It can be driven 365 days a year.
The Internet loves to shit on the GT-R but it's a very unique car and has a big value prop.
As someone who likes depreciated used cars, and really wants a Z06, I hope you are right.
As someone who knows the Z06 is the last non-electric Corvette and includes probably the last great American V8 which puts out 670 naturally asperated HP and redlines at 8,600 RPM with a flat plane crank.... I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one.
FYI, you are completely wrong about resale and production as well:
2020 GT-R MSRP: $115K. Current used prices: $115K.
2020 Corvette C8 MSRP: $60K. Current used prices: $80K.
2023 Z06 Production: [about 7,000](https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.com/forum/me-discussion-photos-videos/445608-latest-2023-z06-production-numbers/page23)
Meanwhile, they have made 43,000 R35 GT-R's [so far....](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_GT-R)
Absolutely agree. I think the latest sports car ICE model before full EV or hybrid will hold value long term comparatively. Especially so for high performance cars
Tbf the SF90 and 765LT are ~$4-500k+. Not really a fair comparison to the GT-R. A RWD Huracan is $200k+, and is not faster to 60 than the GT-R.
I do agree the C8 is the absolute steal of steals.
Ahh, so as long as we ignore electrics, and higher priced cars, the GT-R is the quickest car out there ;)
The BMW M4 Competition Xdrive costs $80K and can do 0-60 in 2.8.
I never said it was the fastest. I’m saying there’s no sense in comparing it to cars that cost 3 or 4 times as much. Nobody is cross shopping an SF90 with a GT-R.
Not to mention that 0-60 times are overrated. Just look at the insane (impossible in real life) times that Dodge publishes for their cars. I don’t care what a car will do with DOT drag slicks on a prepped surface.
For what it is, the GT-R still an incredible performance car for the money.
You didn't, but you are replying in a thread based on that idea.
>Electric aside I think it is still one of the quickest
If 0-60 times are overrated, what is the GT-R really good at that makes it so incredible in 2023? Nurburgring laps set using special aero and tires?
People are cross shopping M4's and Corvettes and 911's, and they are all close in 0-60 and lap times. The world has really caught up.
Why are you using future tense? $60K corvettes were in 2020. Here's a whole thread of people that bought them:
[https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c8-general-discussion/4346089-59k.html](https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c8-general-discussion/4346089-59k.html)
If we're not allowed to quote manufacturer MSRP's, are you sure there will actually $122,885 GT-R's anywhere in 2024?
Yeah, you randomly mentioned it in the comparisons with the car, so the implication is that the GTR wouldn’t have a mark up, either way zo6 ends up better, and cheaper. Hence why people responded to you
how is it random when i was just nitpicking one section of the OP’s comment. his pricing of the z06 is MSRP, but in real life it’s marked up. i never mentioned anything else, there is no implication because that’s an assumption, when i clearly stated that i did not say or think that the GTR is not going to be marked up. so chillout
I never understand why people judge and compare cars based solely on useless 0-60 times. It's so irrelevant. It's easy to make a car go fast 0-60 if that's you're primary goal. There are many other aspects that make a car great, for many different reasons, beyond just 0-60 time.
This is a bit of an ironic thing to say in a thread about the GT-R. The car that was always kind of known as a computer game to drive due to all the assists, AWD, and auto transmission. It w as technically very fast, but not well regarded as a driver's car.
People loved the GT-R because of 0-60 and Nurburgring times, neither of which are useful on the road.
Meanwhile, a 911? SF90? Mclaren? Z06? Those are more driver's cars than a GT-R, and they are also faster 0-60.
I'd be damned if it doesn't look great in Millennium Jade. Not sure if it's $150k great, but great nonetheless.
What (new) options for sports coupes are there at $150k?
* Carrera S
* GT4 RS (if you can get an allocation and are okay with zero/few options)
* V8 Vantage
* R8 V8
* C8 Z06
* M4 CSL (lol)
And... not much else, I don't think I'm missing much. Obviously you can get a *lot* of really cool stuff used (might even be able to get a standard R34 GTR in a few years), but I'm kind of surprised that there aren't that many options in this segment.
In practice the gt500 is more like 100k. I've yet to see any of them in that base 77k spec.
It being ford's halo car and dealers getting 1 or 2 (if they're lucky) allocations, they tend to splurge and get them with most of not all of the add ons. Plus there will be substantial markup on them.
It's unfortunate because at 80k the gt500 is a pretty good deal but at 100 or 120k it's too steep
This seems to be the golden standard in the auto sales industry. Totally off the topic of sports cars, but relevant to your point, it's nearly impossible to find no-fringe Toyota Hybrid models in LE (base) spec, but finding a Platinum or XSE is relatively easy. It's annoying for people who want to buy in at base price.
I've had great luck with GM sports cars the last few years. I bought a new 2021 Camaro LT1 for $36k which I then traded for a new 2022 Camaro SS 1LE for $45k. I test drove a CT4-V Blackwing without any of the crazy carbon or brake packages a couple weeks ago too and when we talked numbers they just wanted MSRP, I think it was $65k.
The Blackwing was neat but the V8 is more fun for 90% of the rev range. The driver seat bottom was also rockhard I assume due to the massaging hardware, and the backseat wasn't really any bigger than in the Camaro, altho 4 doors makes it easier to get in/out and it does have more head room.
I fucking love the SS 1LE. Idc what anyone says, visibility issues are way overblown, the clutch and manual features are INCREDIBLY accommodating to people like me who have never driven a manual, and 2019+ models sound insane. The manual is so good I was able to test drive the car with my only experience being a couple of YouTube videos (thank you Matt Farah and the topher). Sure, I wasnt in heavy traffic but I was in the middle of tysons corner which is a busy area. What a freakin car. If I wasn’t so attached to 4 doors I would have it.
I've become a Camaro evangelist after owning them lol. Every time I see people say there's no affordable sports cars anymore I'm like, Hello! You can get a 455 HP V8 with the same manual transmission out of the GT500 and Viper that also handles AMAZINGLY (I'm also an alpha platform evangelist) for $36k! I know because I did it! And I liked it so much I bought the fancier one a year later haha.
The performance is there, I just hate the feel. The inside of the car feels like it was just thrown on. No rhyme or reason, switches aren’t convenient to use without contorting yourself, electric parking brake drives me insane when they clearly had room for a real one. Most importantly, I hate the manual. It’s a great trans, but the way they made it feel makes it more akin to one of those Logitech video game shifters than an actual car.
I’ve had alcantara across two Shelby’s and I wholeheartedly agree despite the wheel feeling very nice to the touch.
I don’t know what it is about that shifter, but it just feels so insanely electronic and soulless compared to the other 6060s I’ve driven. The car also likes to snap out hard under power in my experience which I very much dislike
Snap out more than the GT500? I wonder if the tires were compromised. I know the OEM Summer tires start to lose performance below 60F and are basically hard plastic below 40F. They also don't last very long, I need new ones soon and there's just over 5k miles on em.
It’s definitely possible, but the tread looks fine. I’ll be heading home next week so I’ll have to give it a try in the summer heat. The GT500 loses traction very easily, but it’s also incredibly predicable and manageable, you can usually gas through it. The camaro would seem like all is well and then suddenly lash out one direction and you’d have to react very quick, and if I was to give it any more gas it’d just keep going
They’re really incredible. And yeah, visibility is most problematic over the front of the car since the hood is so high. Same problem I had in my scat pack widebody. Going over hills you could never see what was in front over the hill and it was terrifying lol
I don't think I've had the visibility issue on hills but I'll pay attention to it the next time I'm driving. Maybe it's because I have the seat really low and far back but I don't really notice the hood at all.
Leaving my car stage 2 max for the foreseeable future. I don’t have a spare 20k lying around to go IMS850, forget IMS1100 lol.
Plus, it’s my daily. Stage 1+ is fast as shit already, I’m really only going stage 2 for the sound so I’ll be staying on 93 for that rather than pushing for that E85 power…although it is tempting.
Yeah that’s what I love about it😂 it’s just so capable, and pretty dang versatile too. You can fit so much shit in the trunk with the seats down it’s crazy. I also feel like the seat room in the back isn’t significantly worse than it was in my S5, more headroom issues than legroom.
Your M4 is pretty crazy too, though. A lot of people in the RS3 community have been switching over to the M3 and M4 and I totally get it. Crazy capable cars and honestly a WAY nicer interior lol
agreed to all your points. i feel like the rs3 is the perfect daily.
and yeah i can see the m3 as a more luxury oriented alternative to the rs3. though for me, i’m too scared of the warranty to really test how capable the s58 is on mine haha.
It's because the highest margins are on the premium models. They're selling you largely the same vehicle for 10-20 thousand more. It doesn't make sense to stock base models because you just don't make that much money on them
Yeah because shitty electronics have a huge profit margin compared to cost. You’re basically paying the electrical guy at the factory to supe up your car with shit you probably don’t want
I think the GT500, with handling package, and the Recaro, in the low to mid 90s is an acceptable price.
It basically splits the difference of the ZL1 and a Hellcat in performance in a straight line or on a track. That and it's drop dead gorgeous, and I'm more of a Corvette guy.
I'm honestly tempted to forgo the C8 allocation and grab a green GT500 with the above options. I've given up trying to find one with the carbon track pack thingy for under 100k.
The GT500's interior is pretty crap even for $80k, but its performance (with the track package) is still a bargain at $120k. At VIR it's 5 seconds faster than the (now previous) Nismo GT-R for about half the price.
Hah, I looked up the entry price for an R8, saw that it was about $160k, and assumed that you'd only get a V8 for that price lol
Guess they include more than I thought haha
Singapore is so weird tbh, owning a car there is astronomically expensive yet their transport infrastructure is built with cars in mind (big boulevards, buses doesn’t have its own lane so it’s stuck in traffic, etc.). So if you want a reliable form of transportation you have to cough up six-figure cash.
>So if you want a reliable form of transportation you have to cough up six-figure cash.
Having lived there this couldn't be further from the truth. Public transportation in Singapore is the best I've ever experienced anywhere in the world and you almost certainly do not need a car. Their trains/busses are hella convenient
Just think, then, in order to buy the car and to get it registered in Singapore, you have to pay roughly the value of the car in taxes to the government
Then the car is only good for five years (assuming brand new) since Karl is older than five years old, aren’t allowed on the roads
Found a 2019 M5 with 48k miles, clean title, asking for $53k. Still lost half it's value. No other car on that list is going to lose half it's price in that short a time, if ever.
extremely limited production (1,000 units), high performance, bespoke parts cars cost more than their normal counterparts yes? you can still go get a standard M4 for $80k.
I agree completely…. And for me it’s also wild how I used to think they looked almost huge, especially for a coupe… But now when I look at it in my garage, I’m like, man it’s not all that big (relatively speaking, of course). Probably most likely due to how massive cars have become in the last 15-20 years.
I saw a Gen 1 NSX today and it was one of the smallest (if not the smallest) cars on the road. It felt like my Civic was towering over it when it passed me.
Scale creep is amazing. I hadn’t realized how big the newish Outback was until I had one as a loaner. The thing went from a large wagon to… a van. It’s absolutely massive.
Yeah I saw my first c8 z06 in person a few weeks, and couldn’t believe how big it looked. I mean it was f’n beautiful imo, but just bigger than I expected.
Preface this with also agreeing BUT
I do wonder how much of that is just the fact that its an aston martin vs a nissan. Aston martin doesnt have people driving around in altima's cutting people off and passing on the shoulder.
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They do, and since this is Porsche, I went with the Carrera S because most people probably want to get $10-15k in options and the base price is like $130k. You could get a stripper Targa 4S at $151k.
Yeah, but you probably don't want a base Carrera. Need to get a Carrera T for the manual. And then you can easily add 15k in non-performance options to any Porsche.
For fun, I played around with the configurator a few months ago. I was able to get a $120k base price Carrera T to a whopping $200k. And it was still a Carrera T at $200k, it didn't bump me to a Turbo or even a Carrera 4S or anything.
911s are everywhere. I see a 911 in traffic, eh, I don't really care unless it's a late model Turbo S or GT3 RS. Or maybe if it has some wild PTS color. I've seen 911 after 911 at car meets.
A facelifted GTR is super rare, I don't think I've seen any recently. Even an 09 GTR is cooler (to me) than the average 911.
I'm gonna be honest, how cool I think I'd feel in a car makes a huge impact on how I perceive it. I don't think I'd feel especially cool in most 911s, but I'd definitely feel cool in a late model GTR. Perhaps it's because I'm young, and the average 911 fan is probably a few decades older than the average GTR fan. This isn't the end all be all, but it is something that matters to me, especially if I'm spending 3x the average US annual income on a toy.
But I'm totally with you on the used market point, you get so much bang for your buck. For $150k, there are many options out there which are just as appealing to me - clean NA1/NA2 NSX, clean R32/R33 GTR, new Mk5 Supra, new LC500, clean tuned R129 600SL (AMG or RennTech), clean Ferrari FF, or maybe even an R34 GTR. I'd lose my mind if I saw an R34 GTR in traffic, and I'd want to buy a car that would cause me to lose my mind.
I've only seen two Skyline GTRs ever - an R31 Hakosuka at a car meet, and an R33 on a highway. Was following the R33 for a bit, and then an R35 merged in, and both of them were driving in sync. Super cool to watch it all happen spontaneously.
I've seen 3 McLaren Sennas.
There are plenty of 997 GT3 around at that price. And it’ll get you the best 996 GT3 on the planet. And those are legitimately interesting cars.
As for the .2 Turbo, I doubt anybody short of a race car driver could even tell the difference in speed.
2 years in on mine (2016 with ~50K miles), and it has been very reliable. The first few model years have the transmission issues, and there are some smaller items that are known to pop up, but overall they hold up well. The prior poster is right though - I paid a bit over half of the MSRP on a new one, and it is pretty much the same car.
*Looks around nervously*. I don’t know who would look for a new, beautiful, unmolested GT-R… in bayside blue with a premium leather interior and all the nice things like the better suspension, better software, better nvh…
There are very few new GTRs out there, and I think it looks a lot better with the facelift. I'm not saying it's worth it, but the late models will be very desirable to collectors and I think they will hold their value quite well.
Also, I've heard that some of the early R35s had transmission problems. Name a more iconic duo, late 2000s Nissan and automatic transmission issues.
It's one of the very last cars I would buy used, unless I knew the person selling it. Nobody buys one to not absolutely thrash it. There are a million lightly driven Porsches and Corvettes and M cars and whatever else, but that's not the audience for the GTR.
Maybe because its hard to find one that hasn't been completely molested, and the few ones that aren't have such a high price that it makes more sense buying new
Not only can you make this argument about almost any car but the GTR in particular holds its' value extremely well. You can MAYBE save
~20% by buying one that is 5 years old with 20k miles on it. Most German cars lose that much value with the first year.
Yeah I dunno honestly.
I have to remind myself that _the rich_ are just tremendously more rich than we realize. And for many of them, it's not "I could get this or this" – it's "I can get this AND this"
Go to car sales and see what the sales man drive. Occasionally they’ll brag and it’s blatant they believe the shit they spiel and think everyone that cant afford 50k on a car is just poor and homeless or unemployed
Currently, Mercedes only makes the GT sedan (IIRC), and the RS7 is a sedan as well. I didn't include the LC500 because it's not built for the track the way every other car on this list is.
The Emira is more in the $100k range.
They stopped the first gen and are preparing for the second gen, which is currently being tested on the Nurburgring. Sadly it’ll be based off the new R232 SL chassis and not be on its own.
The problem is, there's amazing cars Sub 100k (BMW M4, Toyota Supra, AMG GT, A Cayman 4.0, C8 Z51, Audi RS3, AMG C63, CT5 Blackwing) that give 3/4 of the performance at nearly half the price, so I can see people would rather get these and maybe tune them for cheap to extract the last 1/4 performance for a lot less money.
And then there's cars at 250k, like a 911 Turbo, Ferrari F8, Huracan RWD, 911 GT3, Honda NSX, Maserati MC20, that are simply a league above in performance and come with the added cool factor of being proper full supercars that most people would rather spend the extra on monthly payments to obtain the wealth and supercar flex look
The GT3 tells down right slow compared to a full bolt on GTR. I’ve driven both back to back. And the same arguments can be made about the GTR in comparison to the 250k category. It’ll give you 3/4s the same experience for half the price. GTR is even faster than some of the cars you listed. Like the GT3 and huracan RWD
>The GT3 tells down right slow compared to a full bolt on GTR.
A Tuned car is better than stock? Colour me suprised!
Also I know, but at the price point of 250k, a majority of the owners tend to want something more prestigious and more exotica, a Front engined nissan won't cut it in that crowd no matter how good it is. That's my point, I'm aware of its performance
re ferrari f8. there are 89 f8 tributo on autotrader (spyders are more and not included in that number) and the *least* expensive one is $359k.
these cars are way more expensive than the ones in the 250k range.
> BMW M4, Toyota Supra, AMG GT, LC500, A Cayman 4.0, C8 Z51, Audi RS3, AMG C63, CT5 Blackwing
It sucks that only 3 of these are sports car platforms (Supra, Cayman, Vette). Only two come with a manual and only one is a manual and not cross developed. Under 100k, it really feels like Porsche is the only one going all in on drivers cars.
But 150k is a more difficult sale, at that price point, for people genuinely interested in GTRs they could get a R34 GTR. more iconic, more cultural influence and more residual value / investment value.
But it drives like a 2004 car. Meaning 0-60 in like 4-5 seconds at best. More visceral feel, cheap as shit cloth and plastic interior.
It’s a great car and all, a true drivers car. But in 2023, if you’re in the market for a grand touring sports car, it ain’t it.
You are absolutely right, half of the interior of the R34 could might as well come from a Maxima or Altima. But again for 150k, the R35 interior also isn’t all that different or high quality if you compare it to the 2009 car.
There are so many other great options at 150k whether it’s new (911) or used (Ferrari territory)
Theres a lot of people that are obsessed with the GTR, while maybe not as good as others. The thing is not many cars have the hype surrounding them like the GTR
Perfection doesn't mean much if the car doesn't meet emissions or safety standards anymore, they've already chopped it from my market because it no longer meets crash standards.
> equivalent to $101,825 when adjusted for inflation.
So contrary to the title, the new GT-R costs $21,060 more than the 2009 model when taking inflation into account
I think people are taking "adjutlsted for inflation," too simply and literally. Not everything scales exactly with inflation, and I'd say the GT-R is a good of example of something that shouldn't.
Relatively speaking the GT-R gets a lot less attention than other vehicles. Just picking an example, compare it to the Corvette. The R35 GT-R has existed through 3 generations of Corvette. That's 15 years of some performance upgrades and tweaks, but overall a lot less spending on things like R&D and packages and overall bigger changes that most car models experience in their lifetime.
A car that's been in production on a platform for 15 years doesn't really have an excuse of "adjusted for inflation," as it's not seei g as many new models, redesigns, and trims as other offerings. Comparatively, you're talking $21K On TOP of an adjustment for inflation. That's 20% MORE than an inflation adjustment.
IMO, a vehicle that is structurally ancient, like the GT-R, should be BEATING inflation adjustments, not doubling them. Yes, it's progressed in a lot of ways from 2009, but it's also been stagnant, relative to the rest of the market, in that time.
The car has gone through 3 major revisions since the first subgeneration. It looks the same, more or less, but it has 80hp more than it used to, it's significantly more refined, the suspension has been improved, and the interior is better. The drag coefficient is slightly lower. I am probably missing some stuff. They're not just minor revisions.
Part of the GTR's problem is that it so thoroughly demolished all of its competitors that it was already a full generation or more ahead of them. It was the first computerized variable suspension, it was faster around most or all tracks than a 997 GT3 that cost twice as much, etc. Tweaks to that are more cost effective than a redesign, if the goal is just improvement. Even after "stagnating" for over a decade it is still somewhat competitive.
Those revisions are super minor when you compare them to other vehicles. Look at the interior, exterior, refinement, suspension, and freaking engine placement of a 2008 Corvette, compared to a 2024 Corvette. They did all that and went from a base price of $45k to $60k. Meanwhile Nissan went from $60k to $122k making essentially the same vehicle. Yes they made some improvements, but it's nothing close to what the rest of the car industry has done. And the price has skyrocketed compared to the rest of the car industry.
> it's significantly more refined, the suspension has been improved, and the interior is better. The drag coefficient is slightly lower. I am probably missing some stuff. They're not just minor revisions.
I had no idea. Is there somewhere I can read more about this? I was under the impression that there was just incremental improvements.
I learned most of that on YouTube lol, but it looks like there are some articles and forum posts discussing the differences. The 3 versions of the chassis are called CBA-R35, DBA-R35, and 4BA-R35, if that helps with the search.
>Tweaks to that are more cost effective than a redesign, if the goal is just improvement. Even after "stagnating" for over a decade it is still somewhat competitive.
This is exactly what I mean. It's gone from a world beater at a great price to an average (or below-average) competitor with one of the higher prices in its market. Just using the GT-R's Nurburging lap time against others, here's how things look over time for some cars:
GT-R: 7:26.70 (2009) to 7:24.22 (2011) to 7:19.10 (2013)
Camaro: 7:37.40 (2014, Z/28) to 7:29.60 (2017, ZL1) to 7:16.04 (2018. ZL1 1LE)
Corvette: 7:22.68 (2011, C6 Z06) to 7:13.90 (2017, C7 Z06)
Now, I know I'm somewhat selectively picking on the GT-R against Chevy, but it's because I think Chevy's putting for the best foot of "value performance" these days (and getting consistent history on Porsches and their prices is kind of hard). Where the GT-R was one of the most capable cars during its 2013 run (the last one recorded, for some reason), it has A LOT of competition now. Chevy's ZL1s and Corvettes are really strong (and I imagine Cadilac's CT5-V Blackwing would put up a nice time. Porsche has a million iterations of 911s (Turbos and GT3s and so on) that are above the GT-R now. BMW's Competition models (M3, M4, and M5) put down good times.
Not that the Nurburgring is the only thing that matters, but it's an easy, popular way to view progress on performance. Where others have flown higher than ever, Nissan's been tweaking and improving, but at a price that's accelerated faster than the competition. The competition's caught up (in some cases, even surpassed) in performance and matched (in some cases, even surpassed) on price. The GT-R's gone from a leader to a dinosaur. I love--LOOOOOVE--the look of the GT-R. I'd love to want one. The price hikes though, they've made it hard to find a group of people where you say, "definitely get a GT-R, it's great."
This is basically like four paragraphs of trying to hand wave away inflation, as if somehow it doesn’t or shouldn’t apply to the GTR, but nothing you said has anything to do with how the value of a dollar has changed in 15 years. 🤷♂️
Agree. Despite inflation increasing a lot of people arent getting pay increases that actually keep up with inflation. Really companies are using it as an excuse to shoot up prices for profits.
The GT-R has undergone yearly improvements that for other cars may be drastic enough to call a mid cycle refresh. Also it is a small run enthusiast car, it doesn't enjoy the same economies of scale that mass market cars do where costs drop off reliably with more quantity.
The sales quantities are as much a side effect as anything. From 2008-2015, the GT-R was consistently selling 1,000-1,500/year, with the exception of 2010. It then halved to about 700 and kept falling pretty considerably from there. From 2010-2014, it was consistently getting a roughly $5K price increase each year. Its price hasn't increased with inflation, it's arbitrarily gone up forever. Inflation in the early-2010s wasn't 5%+ every year, but the GT-R was taking that extra money as time grew.
Metals and plastic prices also increase with inflation despite "being the same thing". So do labor and logistical costs. They probably do save on some R&D team costs, but they obviously still have a team working on development. Inflation is far more than just validating product innovation.
It costing MORE than the inflation level is strange. Potentially due to the many tweaks over the years improving interior quality, electronic costs, or using more advanced metals and complicated metal working processes for chassis and engine parts. But I'm not familiar at all with R35 changes over the years. Could just be corporate greed.
The R35 is in a pretty unique situation though. Not trying to be an apologist or anything, but I really wouldn't be surprised if most of that base price increase is due to all the upgrades they've made over the years. The car is more powerful with a nicer interior and more advanced tech compared to the 2009 model.
The new Civic Type-R is another example. The base price different isn't completely explained by inflation, but the interior is light years ahead in quality, with more advanced materials being used in the chassis and suspension.
These cars aren't REALLY money makers for the OEMs, they're such low volume. I'm not sure $20k extra an R35 is even a blip in Nissan's pocketbook per year. Actual sales numbers are most likely more important, and being able to say Nissan has a super car on the market.
I don't agree with 2009 vs. now, but the path there is my issue. The price increases were constant with the GT-R, roughly $5K each year, even when the drivetrain wasn't being replaced. The price increases predated the massive drop in production/sales numbers. They pushed the price on it more aggressively than the C8 Corvette, and might still be selling that 1,000/year, if they had kept the price competitive. That so many competitive cars now exist at much lower prices suggests either the margins are outrageously high or Nissan's ability to produce the GT-R at a reasonable price is pretty poor.
I'm not arguing the GT-R would be saving Nissan or lighting up the sales charts. That doesn't mean I'm just going to look at whatever awful price they heave up and say, "well, low-volume, no biggie." There are too many reasons to NOT buy a GT-R these days. A vehicle that used to be popular and known for its insane value and market-leading performance is now a so-so product at a sky-high price. It just doesn't make sense for it to have NEEDED to make that shift.
The C8 Z06 hasn't gotten an official time at that track, but it blew the GT-R (even the $200K+ Nismo) out of the water in Car and Driver's Lightning Lap. The C8 behind the GT-R is half its price. The ZL1 1LE's much closer to the base C8 that you're referencing in price, and it beat the GT-R's lap time by 3 seconds as well.
On paper yes. In real life no.
The 911 is cheaper to operate than the GT-R. Because of both weight and design its consumables last longer. And in many trims the 911 is also more fuel efficient (again, in the real world).
You might think, well cased closed then- 911 is better right? No. The GT-R drives very differently, and feels very different. And, some people will prefer that aggression. On top of that you can do things with a GT-R that you can’t really do with the 911 the same way. And on top of all of that, the ownership experience is very different which some will greatly prefer.
So on paper it’s pretty simple. And I think most enthusiasts would prefer the 911. But in real life it’s not quite what you’d expect, for better or worse. And some will actually prefer the GT-R.
Lol I guess mine might be the exception, but by 996 Turbo gets horrible mileage. It was made right around when gas was $0.95/gallon, but I'm always glad that I only ever need to drive 2000 miles a year or so because on the highway I maybe get 15 MPG.
Is operating expenses on a GTR particularly expensive though? I assumed a lot of things were like owning an Audi where you can find an independent shop who will just buy the exact same VW parts and give you a discount, there might be 370z parts that are significantly cheaper and basically the exact same thing.
I haven’t been fortunate enough to experience the 996 Turbo, I’m referring to the 991 generation 911 (and I assume newer are even more efficient).
Regarding consumable pricing, in some cases consumables do cost less but the intervals aren’t nearly as long so in the end it is more expensive. But also some stuff is outright more expensive *and* doesn’t last as long. My frame of reference might be a bit unfair as the GT3 is on the lighter side but still prices are higher for the GT-R especially for things like brakes.
As you point out, going to independent shops is a good option if there’s a good one near you. And in the case of the GT-R you can get high quality world class stuff for better than oem prices.
Unfortunately you can’t really go with many other oem parts though. Nissan spared little expense in designing the GT-R so in the majority of cases you definitely won’t be able to go get a part from a Z or Altima or whatever to work with it. The good news is that because Nissan spared little expense and used their best manufacturing on the GT-R, it’s about as reliable as a well sorted Infiniti these days.
You piqued my interest since 911 Turbo is my dream car, there are a decent amount of 2014-2016 for <$120k but the most recent I could find was a [2018 year](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404&zip=95018#listing=331371678/NONE/DEFAULT)
I’m building a small app that’s tracking all 911s for sale across the US. It’ll keep historical list prices so we can keep track of long term trends. I’ve been doing this manually in spreadsheets lol
So bringatrailer.com?
You can search by 911 (model/generation/etc...) and see historic auction results plotted.
example (scroll down to plot): https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/997-911/?search=911
Initial focus is on CPO 911s. I’m not sure how classic.com works but on initial glance it looks like it’s tracking auctions.
Personally I just want to walk in and buy a 911 with a warranty.
Yeah… I apologize. I had to look back at the pics from my last track day. I drove a buddies GT3. I’ll be the first to admit I was completely wrong! Carry on!
It depends on what "pretty good shape" is, but essentially you get get an awesome tiptronic 996 Turbo for about $55-$60k, and the same in 6MT for $65-70k.
After that, 997 Turbos are starting to get down to $80k or so, depending on the miles. Of course, a convertible is always going to be cheaper as well for the most part.
Really anything older than a 996 is a "classic" and too expensive, and anything post 2014-ish is too new to be cheap.
That said, a 996 Turbo is IMO the best sportscar for under $60k.
You can get a 991.2 turbo for close to that price, those can make 1000whp with basically bolt-ons +meth. ~$20-25k worth of mods. You’re gonna spend $50k+ on a gtr to make 1000 considering you’re going to need to build the transmission as well.
Now if you want 1500+ yeah the GTR is gonna be the right call but at that point your in for serious money
Making 4 digit hp with a GTR doesn't take 50k if you can turn a wrench. More like 15k.
Source: me. I've been playing with them for almost 20 years (including the old ones) and have had 6.
The $20k I quoted for the 911 Turbo includes labor as well. If we want to take that out of the equation it's still not great for the GTR considering the tooling you're going to need to build the bottom end and the transmission, vs some boltons for the 911
1000+ WHP is tough to do, but a 996 Turbo can be had for like $55-$60k, and you can easily get them up to 600 WHP or so. Which for a car that light, is pretty damn fast.
> At that price, I'll take a base model 911
A base model 911 comes with pretty much zero features or options. The starting price of Porsche models and the actual optioned out prices are VASTLY different.
If I could get a base 3.0L engine 911, but with some decent options, for the same price as a GT-R, then sure.
Otherwise, nah.
And a 'couple years old' implies comparing used to new car prices which doesn't make any sense. Because then I could just say yeah I'd rather buy a GT-R that's a couple years old. Moot point
Honestly for a brand new base 911, they have almost everything you'd really need. Whenever I look at options, the only thing I'd really want beyond what comes on the base is cooled seats (living in Texas it'd be very nice). Everything else is kind of just an added luxury. Some people would say it's expected to be included in a $120k car, but who knows.
The only real pain is that they don't offer a 6MT in a fully base 911, and the Carerra T doesn't actually have leather seats. So even ignoring every other option, you have to buy a $135k Carerra S if you want leather seats and manual.
No. A service center has to be GTR certified, and usually only have 1-2 techs that work on them. I called my local dealership and they told me I could only bring mine in on days their GTR tech was working.
That sounds very similar to owning a MK V Supra, same situation. Not sure about the GT-R, but it really isn’t a good thing in the Supra’s case as most of the “certified” techs still don’t know what their doing. At least the GT-R is mostly Nissan parts so I assume the techs are better at working on it.
I absolutely would if they honored the warranty. Honestly that would have been a way better official set up for warranty work, but probably a PR nightmare.
I got an alignment done at my Nissan dealer who has 2 certified Nissan techs and it was a great experience.
The service manager wouldn’t even touch my keys. The only one allowed to drive the car was the tech.
My alignment was perfect I mean all angles green almost dead center in the factory range. I’ge never seen another alignment sheet that perfect. The tech came out and introduced himself and we talk for a while wile about the car and other GTRs in the area. I really couldn’t be happier with the experience. The tech knew his shit and I was worried they might wash the car after he was done but the tech already knew not to put the car through that shitty auto wash.
I do most maintenance myself, but I wouldn’t have an issue taking to my GTR tech. It was probably one the best experiences I’ve ever had with a service tech.
I don't doubt a GT-R tech's a good tech, rather the ability to get one. Where I am now, I don't think it would be hard. I'm in a place near dealers for Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, and more. I see a lot of performance and high-dollar vehicles, so the idea the Nissan dealer has a GT-R tech isn't a thought that would concern me. Back in my home town, where you have to drive maybe an hour to look at a Lexus, I would worry about the availability of a GT-R tech.
Sample size of one but I’ve always had a better experience with GT-R service than 911 service. That said I have a good relationship with my Nissan dealer and I’m probably an outlier.
I know this sounds crazy, and probably varies dealer to dealer, but my local Nissan dealer is hands-down the best dealer I’ve ever dealt with.
I used to own a lot of z33s and z34s and the GT-R “specialist” would work on my cars as well. This was also back when they had an arrangement with Stillen and you could get your z supercharged at the dealership.
The GT-R techs were really nice and knowledgeable too.
I no longer own any Nissans and now work on my cars myself. The rest of the dealers in my area are trash.
The GT-R takes away far too much from you. The 911 actually tells you when you're doing it right, and when you're doing it wrong. And yes, I've driven both of them around a track.
I think it would have been cool had they tried to keep the price under $100K, but all in all it's still one of the best bang for your buck realistic daily supercars around
Pricing can only be "reasonable" relative to its competitors.
There are simply much better performance cars for that price for the GT-R to still be considered a bargain.
Except for they've had 15 years to amortize the research and capital costs. "Inflation" isn't exactly an exact number but conceptually it should be less than its inflation adjusted price.
Since 2009, [median wages are up a bit against inflation](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q).
When people make this argument, they're usually going back to the 1950s or so. The real tragedy is that productivity--how many dollars each worker is contributing to the overall economy--is up substantially over that time, but wages have only budged a bit, and most of that only in the last decade. The money is being made, but it isn't going to workers.
> "The group includes employees in both the private and public sectors but, for the purposes of the earnings series, it excludes all self-employed persons" and "Usual weekly earnings represent earnings before taxes and other deductions and include any overtime pay, commissions, or tips usually received"
So I wonder if CEO pay is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here. It's to the tune of nearly *400 times* the average salary of production or non-supervisory workers.
I see, I guess we shouldn't consider that the implication is that the money is going into the pockets of people who don't actually do work, and leave the whole situation alone.
The typical GT-R buyer is going to have a house they bought some time ago with a low interest rate, and is basically unaffected by current inflation. We're not talking about people buying Civics here.
Yes it was. A $100k car is easily upper middle class. This is basic math.
https://www.in2013dollars.com/Housing/price-inflation/2009-to-2023?amount=200000
>According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for housing are **45.47% higher** in 2023 versus 2009 (a $**90,930.60** difference in value).
There is no way that a hundrend thousand dollar car is upper middle class. That’s straight up just upper class living. You’re talking over 1500 bucks a month on a 72 year note for a car that has higher cost of maintenance and is a weekend car you’d need/want a daily.
A $100k car that isn't a typical a daily driver, so it's at least your second car. The "upper" in "upper middle class" is doing some heavy lifting here--that's exactly the group I'm talking about that is basically unaffected by housing prices right now. That 45.5% you're citing? That's not additional cost for them. It's additional networth.
Yeah but those are like, the basic necessities. Who gives a shit if TV’s are cheaper when food, transportation, and housing are at unaffordable levels.
It’s frustrating when rent is now 100% of a full time jobs income in my state. I’m not paid poorly by state standards either even tho I’m only at $16/hr, rent is still just above $1200-$1600 for a one bedroom. Even harder having a family in this economy even with two people working full time
It's $20K better, but $50K more expensive. The "$20K more," is AFTER adjusting for inflation.
Most of what you'd see in enhancements with the GT-R is comparable to what you see in the automotive industry as a whole. Smoother rides, more cknsistent/ewat power delivery, safety features and tech, are things you get from any OEM. It's not like Nissan is setting records or standards with anything in 2023.
Sadly ya. I work in a union job and I'm thankful and lucky to get negotiated raises, but at best we're still significantly below the rising inflation over the last 3 years.
Where are these inflation value coming from? We know the Govt has been lying about CPI the past couple or so years by calculating it differently to represent a lower unrealistic number.
Oh yeah. Half of all dollars in existence were printed in one year of the last presidency and a huge majority of it never made it to ordinary people, who were most in need. Add to that companies raising prices of everything and then shouting about their all time record profits (that people are crazy enough to pay for optional stuff) driving it further and it just keeps going up. That said, CPI is readjusted periodically in regards to whatever items they track cost of to get their idea of what inflation rates are. It’s not easy to track inflation accurately, but any issues with reporting are by no means limited to this administration. None of them have any incentive to be as upfront as possible, so it’s weird you think your criticism is a new thing from just the last couple years. It isn’t.
Not arguing, stating fact. You’re the one that has an obvious political agenda that you can’t back up. Keep that shit to conservative subs, they don’t give a damn about objectivity over there.
And you were still wrong, because the worst inflation we’ve had in the last 40-50 years is far worse than that we’ve had for the last couple years. So yeah, maybe you can fuck off you salty bitch.
Oh please, go back to your first two comments and then try to pretend like you weren’t implying the current administration is hiding some major inflation data or something. You’re the one with an agenda and since you’ve been called out with your errors highlighted you’re now backpedaling. Maybe stick to discussing the car in question instead of trying to get people to pile on about some political point that you’re objectively wrong about.
Like I said, you’re **picking** arguments here.
I never got political, you’re the one who started it. The Bureau of Labor Statistics exists no matter what administration it is. Their announcement of updating their calculation is [literally on their website](https://www.bls.gov/cpi/notices/2022/methodology-changes-2022.htm). I’m not providing any false facts here, you’re trying to claim something here when I never disagreed with you in the first place.
Go see a therapist.
Those CPI figures are regularly changed. Your initial two comments show you’re trying to stir the pot and imply any complaints you have are caused by the past couple years of politics, which is a ridiculous take. So no, you’re the one “picking” an argument here. You started it, can’t clarify any of your points, and are floundering here. Sad.
Who said anything about speed? The GT-R outperforms the 911 in every measurable metric until you're approaching the $200k level of trims like the Turbo and GT3, and even then they're just competitive with it, not surpassing it. If you don't care about performance at all why are you even looking at a 911? There are luxury cars literally half the price that have far more options standard than what Porsche offers like the S5 and M440i.
Exactly… this sub is full of wankers. People bitch about how performance cars have ‘lost their soul’ as we move towards electrification…. Nissan builds a outstanding ICE-powered borderline supercar… People bitch cause it hasn’t changed enough for them. It’s comical.
The GTR is literally the progenitor of the heavy, big, tech laden cars of today that people are complaining about. It's not like the GTR is some Lotus or NA Ferrari, it's a computerized boat like the performance cars of today, only worse because all the tech is 10 years old.
It's COMPLETELY dead and lifeless to an unsettling extent, which is weird because it uses a hydraulic rack.
It's also annoyingly heavy when driving around town but that's probably because the one I drove had a larger tire size than stock.
Ironically it fits the GTR quite well since 90% of buyers today are interested *because* of its role in games.
It drives just like the one in Need for Speed: Underground!
In a world of full self driving, range extender rotaries, electric motors in wheels, and whatever the latest hotness is probably something to do with AI, the GT-R is absolutely quaint.
You whooshed on that, but people here like light cars which explains why the 86 is popular while 370z is just another heavy 20+ year old Nissan that was boring already over 10 years ago.
The new Z is just a bodykit with an engine swap that's been through stop-sales right out the gates. That's really rough.
> The new Z is a bodykit with an engine swap that's been through stop-sales right out the gates. That's really rough.
Yeah, the new Z is a disappointment but how is that relevant when we're talking about the 370Z? On top of that, reviews are as complimentary as you could expect from a 20 year old platform being sold in a modern car- pretty good as a GT car but not competitive with a (for example) a new sports car platform co developed by Toyota and BMW.
There is some strange tribalism in the automotive space where liking one car means you need to hate everything that could be a potential competitor.
Anyway, on the money assessment of the Z. It's a good 7/10s car. For a daily, or something that's never going to see any real 'spirited' driving, I'd take one over the 86. At current prices for clean ones, I'd probably opt for another Mustang over it though.
The interior isn't going to win any awards, but if you're chasing the fun factor, I think it deserves some consideration than it gets. It's definitely in an odd middle spot between the Miata/86/S2000 and heavier but more powerful Mustang/Camaro, but I think worthy of more attention than it gets at the moment.
I wouldn't mind one for a daily, but yes, I don't think current prices reflect their value at the moment. But I also think that's true of most cars on the market. Bad time to shop.
Ha yes exactly. So many mentions of 911’s in here, ‘for the price’… I fully respect the 911, but it’s like people don’t realize how expensive they are now. Turbo’s start at almost $200k now, it’s nuts.
> 'Modern cars just aren't interesting to me'
The R35 is the embodiment of what most people mean when they complain about modern cars- a technological marvel that weighs as much as a boat while completely insulating the driver from the driving experience.
I think GTRs are cool as hell (R33 still a dream car) but you're completely missing the point here.
When people say modern cars aren’t interesting to them, they don’t mean they don’t want something modern. They mean they do want something modern, but they aren’t seeing what they want out there. This is consistent with a sports car that’s for sale new but not modern.
Most people want complex cars, so they keep getting more complex and more expensive. It’s not really a stretch that some portion of buyers aren’t happy with that.
Having bought my first new car in 78, a Mustang 2 hatch back for 5K and many before that shopping today is very depressing, many cars I've owned are qualude what they were and it tears me apart reviewing them.
Just thought I'd share that!
I don’t know if people are joking or what but 123K for that pos has to be a joke. Also, yes it is still 50K more expensive than a 2009 model. Not everything has to be adjusted for inflation lol because if we do that the GTR looks even more awful.
An 09 Vette costed 48K and a 23 Vette costs 65K. That is well below the cost when adjusted for inflation. Same thing goes for a 09 mustang to 23 mustang, etc.
Anyone justifying and supporting the GTR must be genuine fanboys and sucking Nissans d**k because their are plenty of better alternatives for 125K. When someone asks me what so great about the GTR I’m kinda speechless because their isn’t much to it stock. I just say it’s a poor man’s Porsche? But like it doesn’t drive nearly as great as a Porsche. It feels heavy, a bit tame, and sorta GT-esque.
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The skyrim of sports cars...yeah the og was great and game changing...but how many re-releases till you stop milking the shriveled up, powder spitting teat?
It's still unique so why would they drastically change it? It's only real rivals are from BMW or Mercedes which have basically gotten just worse over 17 years.
I sorta want to buy an old GT-R now, and slap on the 2024 front/rear bumper and headlights. Maybe interior dash too. How difficult can it be? Instant 2024 GT-R.
Nissan's gotta make money somehow, and the GTR is their flagship product. and people have proven to be willing to pay WAY more for cool cars than anyone ever expected after the pandemic and how the car sales market changed.
can't imagine making the GTR is gonna make any drastic profits for them, but whatever, i'm glad the GTR is back. hopefully they can use the extra funds to update it.
I waited since 2002 when they first announced the prototype. My wallpaper was that godzilla r35 with fascia similar to old school r34. I ended up buying one in 2011 and while it was an experience and deal of a lifetime, I ended up selling it because it didn't excite me like r34 did. No manual transmission. Altima looks. Not sexy. Just brute, robotic power without soul. It was like piloting a mecha.
Yeah a goddamn carrera s had 300bhp in 1980's and you're telling me with all the advancements in technology we can't get another boxer engine in GR86 that exceeds 228bhp? They can fuck right off.
The clowns saying we can’t get a turbo FA24 in the BRZ because it would somehow add so much to development and production costs that it would be over $50k always make me laugh.
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Had a GTR but sold it when I realized what the cost of ownership was truly turning into. Plus I needed the Down payment on my house and my Raptor was more practical
No.. absolutely not. You could, but you shouldn't. Ride was harsh, seats uncomfortable for someone who did not wear size 32 pants, and going at city speeds was just molasses slow, while hearing transmission clank between 3 gears.. if you got groceries, your meal would be nice and warmed up in the trunk by the time you got home. And parking it required 3 mile walk, so you would not get dinged.
I got a great deal on it and it was my dream car, but GT350 was just so much more fun. GTR felt.. sterile. And rear seats were basically useless
Summer 2011 at 7pm on the BW Parkway leaving Baltimore. I'm in a 2001 Town Car doing 80 in the fast lane. A GT-R runs up in my rearview and a second later is ahead of me. That thing cut through traffic like a \[blurred\] hot knife through warm butter. It's AWD agility is shocking to see and definitely worth anything under $150k.
Why not also ask Nissan how they arrive at the price and also ask somebody who builds cars for a living how much it should cost. I feel like the writer just said “ the GTR is not affordable anymore” and then he left it just at that when he could have gone further.
It’s kind of misleading. The GT-R was only cheap for the first year; there was a massive price pump in 2009 or 2010.
Also, the GT-R has been refreshed multiple times throughout its run. The current model is very different from the original r35.
Frankly, I’m actually surprised it still started at 115k until last year. Adjusting for inflation, the price is never increased much over the years (if you exclude the launch year).
I don’t think the current model is *that* different from the original 2009 model year. Sure there’s more power and interior upgrades and transmission tuning and upgrades, but fundamentally the chassis, drivetrain, suspension design, and overall look hasn’t changed all that much. It’s more of refreshes than redesigns. In 911 terms it would be xxx.2 or xxx.3 equivalent by now lol.
I’ve driven the 2020, 2018, 2015, and 2010 versions and they largely felt very similar. Not the same. But very similar. I think my takeaway impression was that even while driving the 2020 version, it very much felt like driving a 10 year old car. Rattling, brittle suspension, creaks and groans from the cowl over anything other than perfect roads, nose heavy, imprecise steering, throttle lag, all fine for 2010, but not great for 2020 and onwards.
It's more like if Porsche was still selling the 997.2 today, like yeah, it's *technically* been updated and improved somewhat over the original car, buts it's still 95% a 15 year old vehicle.
No disagreements there. But I also think the GT-R got a bad rap due to its price; most lay people assume it’s a luxury car because of the price tag, but it was never meant as one.
I think it exists as a weird paradox in that it was so insanely overpriced that I would ever own one, yet it was still the cheapest car in terms of performance-per-dollar for a looong time (although I believe since 2020 the c8 has taken that spot).
I highly doubt you can buy a GT-R without paying 20k more than sticker, but this number doesn't factor in inflation, which would make the 2008 70k base roughly 100k today, making a price rise of only 20k/20%.
The only people buying this car are buying it for the GTR badges. Why spend $122k when you could just get a fully loaded Supra or a Porsche for that price.
To be fair you could get a new loaded Supra and a used 718 for the same prices as one gtr. I mean yes the gtr would own the supra but there are mkv out there with 800+ whp on stock transmissions.
If I had 120k though I wouldn’t get either and I own a Supra, 718 gts 4.0 for me.
No Supra is making 700 on stock trans let alone 800 unless they've heavily limited torque in gear. The trans fails catastrophically 650ft/lb and 600 is already risky. also, making anything more than 600 is such an involved project that you're going to throw in a beefed up transmission anyway.
Pure850 with flex running an E50 tune with a Pure stage 1 trans is kind of the first step after you've finished all your basic bolt-ons with the factory turbo.
A dude higher in the thread found a [2018 Turbo coupe](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404&zip=95018#listing=331371678/NONE/DEFAULT) for 120k, which is unquestionably a better car than a "new" GTR.
I know there have been pretty significant advancements, but how the hell is this car still in the same generation as when I was an undergrad? I'm nearly 40.
Barely: https://youtu.be/n9GwOocqfe0
With E50 and Downpipes, those xdrive are doing high 9s. For half the price. Also don't forget, tuning and modding GTRs is way more expensive than the M3.
There’s no argument that the S58 is a stout engine. But you can make this argument going down the chain. Why pay for an m3 when you can do a k20 swap and get 1000 HP and run low 9 for less cost?
The argument that I am making is that the GTR is overpriced and outdated for what it is. Modern cars like the G82 M3 can go 9s with less than $5k in mods.
Better value, that's all
By that same argument, K20 civic is better value than G80 M3. There are always going to be cars that go faster for cheaper. But faster for cheaper doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the better car.
Better value as:
- Better Interiors
- All wheel drive
- Sedan or Coupe
- Looks is subjective
- Similar performance as the GTR, with good potential.
The K20 civic in what? EG chassis? Any Civic doing 9s is not a daily. Both the GTR and the M3 are very good for daily cars, depsite their power.
I hear what you are saying, like we can always get a mustang Fox, put a LS with NOS and for sure it might be in the 10s, but don't you think that the GTR is overpriced? It is two times better car than the M3? I honestly don't think so.
The GTR is a $120k - $130k car, not $170k.
You’re always going to get diminishing returns as price goes up.
The GTR is pretty strong value. And you kind of just made the point. The premium spec GTR cost $122k starting. Also, the GTR is gonna hold value a lot better than any new age M3 or M4.
Why get an M3 when a B58 Supra with a new turbo could produce more power?
That's true, and same applies to the Porsches, for that money any Carrera S would hold value as well.
On the Supra, well you need a couple things to get there, port injection, Pure800, built transmission, etc. Whereas the M3, just send the ECU to Femto, E50 Tune and you are doing high 9s.
I would choose a manual Supra though, it's lighter and way more fun to drive than the M3 IMO. I just sold the M4 and got an MX5, and it's way more fun to drive around..
Haven't tried to fit a cello in it, but you could definitely fit a person in the trunk, it's huge. The escape would've been even cooler if he had done it in a GT-R!
I think the facelift version looks way worse. I get that it is an homage to the r34 but the painted crossbar on the front looks way worse than the gaping maw of the last gen (front like the evo X)
I don't think this refresh is horrendously bad, but I definitely prefer the previous year's model too. The only thing I like about the 2024 Nismo is the larger wing (which honestly should have been on the 2023 model).
The Evo X styled front is a great way to have a clean and aggressive look without the ridiculousness of a huge (mostly fake) grill. Smart colour blocking is all you need, I reckon the new Supra would look better as well with the same style.
Loved seeing the GTR beat more expensive cars in Motortrend's world's greatest drag races back in the day.
Like Bane said in The Dark Knight, "victory has defeated you". Success leads to complacency.The competition has caught up now. Nissan needs to retire it and develop a new model.
One thing that every GTR post never mentions in OP: that first year $70K price was a loss-leadeer marketing price (plus the guaranteed mark ups at the time), prices jumped the [the next model year](https://www.motortrend.com/news/prices-for-2009-nissan-gtr-jump-almost-6000-134755/).
Compare that to the 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera starting at 77k
compared to 108k today but probably much more with options which have gotten out of control
The R35 sold at a great price, because non gamers in the USA didn't know a Nissan GTR could be great. Once the legend spread, Nissan was able to raise the price.
I’m in the market for a car like this and the price seems pretty reasonable. Like would I rather it cost 99k? Yes but this is the world we live in. They’re gonna charge what people are willing to pay.
Not even an R36... Who's buying these at that price point? There are so many options for sport/entry level supercars that aren't a Nissan in that price range.
I'm not gonna do the math but a year by year inflation adjusted price metric would be fun. And adjusting that for it's relative performance compared to other cars, because the last few years of inflation were about as ridiculous as the yearly drop in Nurburgring lap records were in the 2005-2015 period.
The GT-R was an absurd value for a world beater when it came out. I assume they just wanted to make a splash, because the price regularly rose after that enough that it wasn't ever the same, especially with the competition improving rapid.
Adjusted for inflation, a GT-R Premium with an MSRP of $83,040 in 2010 would be $116,256 today. Throw in 2020, 2021 supply chain woes and this seems about right tbh
The crazy part is, despite being 15 year old tech, it's still competitively priced with modern borderline-supercars (C8, GT500, M4 CSL etc) after considering options and dealer mark-up.
Geez I still remembered reading about the new Nissan gtr in car magazine back in elementary school and thinking how cool it is. Now I already graduated from college and this car still looks pretty much the same lol.
I get that with inflation it’s about 20k more but there’s nothing different about the car itself. It’s just a facelift of a 2009 era car which is pretty much what Nissan has been doing the last 15 years anyways.
This is really disappointing. The GTR has been my dream car for so long, especially the nismo version, but they’re just so hard to justify at this price. I saw a nismo for sale a few days ago and they wanted $300k CAD for it. I love that car more than I should and I still think it’s unjustifiable at that price. Why would I pay that much for a GTR when I can get a huracan for considerably less?
Man, they need to update this thing. Still an utter beast, but it's just *so friggin' OLD.* (And it's one of the rare performance lines where hybridization should be ***encouraged*** \- correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember a Skyline GTR ever being a relative featherweight.)
FWIW you can't even get them for MSRP. They only make like ~50 a year. Expect to pay at least $25k+ ADM on a premium and upwards of $100k over MSRP on a Nismo.
$222,885 sounds about like a good price to start so the dealer can try to sell it for 300k after mark up. I love seeing this cars out and about but at that price range I feel as there is much better options.
imo its Nissan saying, we'd rather be doing something else, but if you REALLY want Nismo, they will build it. one cool update is the Nismo has the same turbos as their GT3 car.
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