I think it’s a dumb model to exist at all but only because the CX90 exists. Aside from the 3rd row it basically competes in the top class of those 2:
- XC90 lowest possible trim is $57k msrp.
- MDX is $50k but 1) it’s a great overall value if you consider it luxury and 2) it’s not really luxury
Neither have RWD platform and the Turbo 6 will set you back a lot on the MDX and the XC90 options are all turbo 4s and the hybrid is pretty expensive.
But again the main issue is the existence of the CX90.
Problem is perception not whether car can be considered luxury. No one is going to buy Mazda for luxury they want value. It has tough time competing with likes of Telluride which you can get better equipped for 5k less.
It is that’s why they sell pretty good #s of MDX, also Acura has high residual value which makes these lease rates lower which is why they can push decent #s while having no EVs or even hybrids.
The RWD platform is awesome though. Those vehicles are based on FWD AWD systems. I think if the transmission tune was more aggressive with the inkine-6 it would really reach its full potential.
Awesome = choking in the MDX Type S' dust while being smoked by an Explorer ST passing on the left. The biggest problem with the CX-90 is its nonsensically nerfed top trim powertrain. Even tuned 90s are slower than the Type S and ST.
I don't own one, but I just noticed your flair. Enjoy your car. Just bear in mind most people in that market are opting for something else, and for good reason.
Jeez dude, it's not personal, chill out. Driving dynamics don't mean anything without numbers to back it up. The CX-90 doesn't have the numbers. Not performance, and not interior space either. It's not quicker around any course. People aren't buying the idea either. This has nothing to do with you personally.
>In Canada, the base CX90 is $45,900 while the CX70 is $49,750…
Is this supposed to be noteworthy or are you unaware that base midsized two rows are usually more expensive than base midsized 3 rows?
>are you unaware that base midsized two rows are usually more expensive than base midsized 3 rows? Ie Edge/Explorer
Edge starts at $42k, Explorer is $50k
Last I checked, 50>42. Not sure what you're on about here.
That is... truly bizarre. In Canada, the Explorer is nearly $8k more than the Edge.
And Ford wonders why this thing doesn't sell well in the US? What are they doing? They even build it with cheap Maple Syrup Mexican labour!
I wonder if it's related to economies of scale. Think about how many police are sitting in Explorers right now. They probably are cheaper to produce because they get better contracts with suppliers for buying so many more Explorer parts compared to something like the Edge.
So the question is, why do Canadians pay more for the Explorer than the Edge? I get that the Edge is produced in Canada, but it costs way more to ship a completed Edge to Vancouver from Oakville than it does to ship it to Rochester.
Usually those 2 row versions are targeting a different customer, and usually have better styling (Atlas vs Cross Sport) or offroad capabilities (Pilot vs. Passport) to differentiate it from the base 3 row.
They're usually cheaper because they have a trim level below the equivalent two row, which is also what Mazda is doing.
They do that precisely because they are targeting different people, those that want a midsized two row are doing it because they want something better than a compact two row, but those that require more seating want the cheapest vehicle that has 3 rows.
How does the CX-70 differentiate itself from the CX-90 other than the amount of seats?
Usually if you're buying a midsize two row, you're looking for a very comfortable 4 full sized adult cabin. The CX-70's second row is still spaced as if the third row is still in the vehicle. There's virtually no styling difference, cargo size difference, 2nd row amenity/room difference, off-road capability difference, nothing. It's the same car.
The amount of seats. I didn't say the car positions itself well, I said the car being more expensive than the cheapest 3 row because of trim level differences isn't slightly unusual.
>Usually if you're buying a midsize two row, you're looking for a very comfortable 4 full sized adult cabin. The CX-70's second row is still spaced as if the third row is still in the vehicle.
You're missing the point of what I'm saying. The CX-70 is positioned above the CX-5 and CX-50. The CX-90 is their 3 row. The CX-90 has a lower starting price to capture those that just need a car with 7 seats, the CX-70 is priced higher because it's meant to be an upgrade from the two other compact two rows Mazda sells.
> But the problem is, it's not going to be compared to the CX-5/50. It's going to be compared to the CX-90 because it's literally the same car, assuming you're wanting to step up to a midsize car.
Actually, I think some customers *will* be comparing it to the CX-5/50. A lot of customers aren’t that hung up on “compact” or “midsize”, they’re counting how many rows/how many people can fit. If they’re looking at a CX-50, maybe you (a salesman) can convince them to move up to a CX-70 as a “roomier” and “more premium” option?
Again, there's no issue with people paying the same amount of money for what is, as you say, the same vehicle.
I'm just not sure what that has to do with the fact the -90 offers a cheaper base price to solely capture the small segment of people who just need the cheapest vehicle that sits 7.
You’re being downvoted but Honda is pretty much doing the exact same thing with the Passport vs Pilot. They were (at least before the pilot was refreshed) essential the same car but the passport didn’t have the 3rd and base MSRP is higher than the pilot.
i also thought it was hilarious how BAD some websites/apps work, like shit straight up doesn’t work yet the software engineers working on it are making $200k+. The FB, twitter, reddit apps are all hot garbage
web design these days is some on the most complicated software development you can do. As a mostly backend developer, I can admit that modern frontend developers that we used to make fun of. Have consistently some of the hardest work.
Try making a responsive site that works across 10,000 screen sizes, languages, mandatory accessibility standards, and then browsers who are all fighting to have the web render the way THEY want.
It's almost impossible these days to get everything right.
Over the last few weeks, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, and Mazda have been giving me big problems, just like not working at all, or randomly doing weird behaviors.
Thought it was something wrong with my devices. Maybe an extension or something causing havoc which didn't have any issues in the past. But yeah some sites just do not render right anymore and some online tools just don't function properly on mobile.
Here's my conspiratorial take as a web software dev for 20 years: there is a *huge* amount of ChatGPT copy/pasting going on now and if you don't know *what* it's doing but it works, it'll eventually break. I think it's a lot more widespread than a year ago.
The CX-90 base trim is different from the CX-70 base trim.
The CX-70 starts at the GS-L level while the CX-90 is at the GS. If you look at the same trim the price difference is negligible.
My issue with the CX90 is that the top trim options with features I want ALL. have captains chairs for 2nd row.
Why are captains chairs becoming a thing? As someone with children I want the extra seat in the middle!
Yea I hear that. I think the CX-70 back seat will be large enough for a family of 5 with small children (based on the space in our CX-90 with the captains chairs). I think after our 24/12 CX-90 PHEV lease is up, might look in to a CX-70 for that bench and features combined plus the huge cargo area.
Mazda really fumbled the bag on this one. I know it was probably cheaper to just use the CX-90 and remove the rear seats, blah blah blah.
Just like many others have said, if they brought the CX-60 to the states, it would have sold like those pink Stanley cups.
The CX-60 has roughly the same interior volume as a Cax-5 and CX-50 but would be more expensive due to the RWD platform. Everyone would have complained about that instead.
Essentially Mazda made 1 car.
It comes with 2 rows (CX-70)
It also comes in 3 rows (CX-90)
I dunno, names aren't perfect but really the only thing that matters is if the vehicle is the ideal fit for you.
Understood but we're talking about the highest trims of the top of the range model for a particular make. There are plenty of Mazda's in the 35-45k range. It's a three row SUV with premium trim...
The Blackwings are so disappointing in that you can have SuperCruise OR the last 6MT Cadillac is ever going to make.
My $30,000 Accord can do adaptive cruise control with 3 pedals, why can't a $120k Cadillac?
If you ever buy your dream car, I'd like to be one of the people who change your tires between laps. I've always wanted to be in one of those Cruise Cruze crews.
Picked up a used bolt EUV at the end of last year for $26k with super cruise. Can confirm it is awesome. I do about 400 miles per week to/from work and use it for 80% of that. It makes things so much better and works so well. I highly recommend it.
Mazda might have nailed the model positioning strategy just because i've honestly never seen Mazda getting so much press outside of a new Miata generation.
Seriously tho, I’m a Mazda tech and those cars often come with a laundry list of recalls. They are minor ones that often just need a software update, but even so, I expected a better launch. They really should have waited for the actual model year instead of releasing it in April of the previous year.
I just test drove one of these and yeah, it feels way too compact for its size and for any three row SUV. Had to move the passenger seat up so my legs were cramped in the front just to get my kid’s car seat in the 2nd row.
The PHEV also felt pretty slow with the 4 cylinder if they were going for driving dynamics. Not sure if the battery didn’t have enough charge to give it a lift or what but it sure felt like a 4 cylinder coming up to speed.
I liked the look of it and the reviews but after driving, man I’m not sure what they were thinking.
When I bought my CX-9, I actually wanted a CX-7, but they didn't make them in the Kodo design style. I do like the Kodo style more than the cx-90 update, so I am in no rush to switch out.
I wanted to like the CX-90. I tried so hard. But the front legroom is unforgivable for a car that long, and I just don't fit very comfortably. Yeah, it has a long engine, but with a longitudinal platform and short overhangs I'd expected they would shove the engine halfway into the transmission tunnel so they could provide deep, if narrow, footwells. But they didn't, and I was sad.
So I was *so* hopeful for the CX-70. If they'd moved the 2nd-row seats back a few inches, they could have allowed the front seats to adjust further back as well, given the steering column some more reach adjustment, and I would have fit comfortably in it. But no, they had to screw around for a year and then release a CX-90-with-seats-removed and scramble the pricing until it didn't totally embarrass them.
Be better, Mazda. And have a talk with your ergonomics department about height percentiles in different countries.
Yes, disproportionately. And I have problems fitting comfortably in a lot of cars, so it's not technically a huge failing of Mazda's. However, the cars I fit best in are almost always longitudinal; things like a Grand Cherokee or Durango. Because the front wheels aren't driven directly off the transmission like they are in a transverse setup, they're usually pushed pretty far forward to where they don't intrude on the footwell. But Mazda managed to find a way to make the front legroom and the pedal/steering wheel relative positions *worse* than the old transverse CX-9. Which is frustrating.
Just pointing out that when the CX-90 was announced last year, the USD was worth around 130 Yen. Now the USD is worth over 150 Yen. So I think some part of this is due to the exchange rate being different and Mazda taking advantage of it. If you can lower your prices to be more competitive while still getting the same or more in revenue per vehicle then it’s a smart move.
You're certainly right, but keep in mind what you're describing is a decrease in the yen's value relative to the dollar. Since the dollar tends to be the global standard for valuation, Mazda has probably absorbed a good chunk of that adjustment in the form of increased costs.
Not really because Mazda isn't buying supplies in dollars. The cost to make their cars is still predominantly in yen for labor, machine operating cost, and steel. They buy aluminum from the US and import various other stuffs that will be affected, but that isn't the main cost so the advantage remains.
Well, you also aren't considering another confounder here, which is that manufacturers who use a lot of raw materials often buy futures contracts to hedge their risk. I don't know if Mazda does that, but the prices they're paying for materials may very well have been agreed upon a long time ago.
This is for Inline6 models only. PHEV prices increased. Mazda sells 75% PHEVs in North America so we’re only talking about 25% of the market segment that’s getting discounted.
"Several of the 2024 CX-90's trim levels are now $3000–$4000 cheaper than before, **although the plug-in-hybrid model is up by between $500–$2500 depending on trim level."**
Mazda are reaping what they sowed with this all show, no go disappointment. The CX-90 is being outsold by everything from the Explorer to the Pathfinder to the X5 to the GLE. Their upmarket move has been a bust so far.
It's sad to see Mazda making strategic missteps and getting into trouble. $4k probably won't make any difference on cx90 top trims sales, only piss off the loyal customers(mostly enthusiasts) and dealers who believed and invested in Mazda's pitch about moving upward with better cars and better margins. CX90 was executed with a bunch of cut-corners, the 8 speed wet clutch tranny being the best example and the worst experience about the car. It doesn't matter what Mazda did with the handling, a jerking transmission that can't pass the power down ruins everything. In today's market, manufacturer of Mazda's size won't get many shots before their resources are depleted and market shares taken by competitors from EV or non-EV world. If it's not too late, I'd like to pray for Mazda's decision makers to listen better to your marketing team and hammer your engineers to fix your cx90s soonest rather than rushing out less competitive version of the same model for nothing. Quality over quantity! Manufacturing is not like hedge fund, you don't need a large portfolio to try out your luck or control your risk. It should be like insider trading, you spend enough on your marketing team to know exactly what the current generation of customers want and what they can afford, and then deliver to that target swiftly and precisely without hesitation or back and forth. Hope Mazda will make it!
At this point why didn't they just bring the CX-60 over with a wider body or as-is. Looking around me, there is a big market for a Honda Passport style CUV.
The CX-60 is very close in size to the CR-V, while the Passport is a bit bigger. Mazda already has two vehicles in that size range, with the CX-5 and CX-50.
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