Kia EV9 Already Getting $7,000 Markups From Some Dealers
Posted by ByteWanderer@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 260 comments
Posted by ByteWanderer@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 260 comments
RedditHatesTuesdays@reddit
Who the fuck wants a Kia ev suv for 70k?
stakoverflo@reddit
Florida Man does
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
While that is a really bad financial decision for most folks in that income bracket, there are a small amount of exceptions.
I've got a buddy who makes 6 figures traveling to determine oil & gas leases in a couple of states. He drives a company pickup and gets per diem that covers hotels, food and booze. He doesn't even have an apartment, he just gets a hotel room when he is back in his "hometown." He could easily afford to spend a high percentage of his income on a vehicle.
Lunatic_Shovel@reddit
Yes, but your friend who is literally a gainfully employed hobo is an extreme fringe case and not someone who should be considered when making sweeping advice.
As an aside, I cannot imagine a life of having nothing permanent. Humans have been setting up shop in a single place since agriculture was invented.
dcux@reddit
Staying in a hotel seems like it would still be more expensive than having a steady room in a shared house or something.
Also, many places I've worked wouldn't allow you to expense anything in your home market/city. You can't expense travel, hotel, or food when you're "home."
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an_actual_lawyer@reddit
He is highly sought after to untangle leasing issues and he gets per diem for the weekends as well, if he is working the week before and after for the same client on the same job. He pays for some of the other weekends with points.
beholdthemoldman@reddit
you should watch the movie 'up in the air'
mebizzle@reddit
You're living it. Nothing in any of our lives is permanent as our lives aren't permanent.
Also, Humans have been successful nomads for far longer than agriculture has existed.
Lunatic_Shovel@reddit
far out, brother
stakoverflo@reddit
Even if you don't have rent or a mortgage, under no circumstances should you be spending 7/9 of your pre-tax income on a car lol.
losteye_enthusiast@reddit
7/9 of the posters just hid their 900+ month car payments from you.
1/9 will argue violently that the interest rate being below “x” amount means they’re making money on it.
The rest of us are happily eating paint chips.
lee1026@reddit
Depends. If you are retired with a lot of assets, sure, spend multiples of your (non-existent) income on a car. It's fine.
Assets vs income, etc.
stakoverflo@reddit
Okay but that is a minuscule number of people lol
lee1026@reddit
62% of new cars are brought by the elderly.
This is more like the default.
maaaatttt_Damon@reddit
With an 8 year loan that's only about 10% of your income. Easy peasy. At least that's what the Dealership's Financing Manager told me.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Had me in the first half
tiagojpg@reddit
Y’all should visit some European countries and see how many of us earn 10-20k/year and buy a 20k-30k car. Unfortunately it’s our reality but I’m sure someone won’t go bankrupt for buying a 70k car on a 90k salary.
aPerson39001C9@reddit
I’d rather have a $70k Kia ev then a Musk supporting Tesla X for $80k. I could understand people’s preferences vary.
RedditHatesTuesdays@reddit
I'd rather have my Ford.
Simon676@reddit
Plenty of people, it's a good car
RedditHatesTuesdays@reddit
It's a Kia.
Simon676@reddit
You're getting too hung up on brand image :p
RedditHatesTuesdays@reddit
Oh yeah my bad it has nothing to do with their shit engines
Simon676@reddit
Exactly, it's an EV :)
They've been making them for quite a few yesrs now and they've all been extremely reliable.
RedditHatesTuesdays@reddit
Oh my God.
Yes, EVs don't have engines. I don't like how any of them look. None of them are an awd sedan that look good to me. I would never consider a Kia.
visceralintricacy@reddit
800v, V2H, nicer interior than a Tesla...
LegitimateIncrease95@reddit
800v? Where can you actually charge a Kia?
5yrup@reddit
Anywhere with a 120V or 240V outlet or an L2 charger.
Lots of CCS stations were already rated for up to 1000V. Any of those 350kW stations can charge it.
Then finally most manufacturers running 800V systems have equipment to let it charge on 400V chargers, but it doesn't charge as fast as on an 800V charger.
lee1026@reddit
If you are using L2, whether the battery is 400v or 800v inside is a little bit academic.
visceralintricacy@reddit
It's a more powerful architecture that also allows for V2H - using the car as a backup power supply for your house.
5yrup@reddit
Well yeah, but it still answers the question "where can you charge it?". Practically anywhere you can charge any other EV. And soon pretty much all Tesla locations as well with a passive adapter. The bleeding edge Tesla chargers support up to 1000V as well, so soon even those will give full charge speed to these cars.
Most of Hyundai/Kias most notable EVs have been 800V cars. Ioniq 5/6 and the EV6 are all 800V.
faizimam@reddit
Almost every single non tesla charger supports 1000v
gtlgdp@reddit
Can it charge at Tesla superchargers?
faizimam@reddit
As of early 2025 yes.
But until tesla upgrades their chargers, they will be limited to 85kw. It's a voltage issue.
burntcookie90@reddit
Soon. It works at magic dock locations already.
tech01x@reddit
lol… the interior is ok, but typical Kia. Tesla interior materials are way better.
RedditHatesTuesdays@reddit
Can I get a fusion that doesn't suck?
nalydpsycho@reddit
It's about being a large EUV, not being a Kia.
footpole@reddit
Stop trying to make EUV happen.
nalydpsycho@reddit
Calling it an E-CUV is even more cumbersome.
AFB27@reddit
Wouldn't be surprised if some EV6 GTs sold for that. Which is nuts but the market I guess.
huejass5@reddit
I’ve seen a couple of the already. Apparently some sucker does
CreamCityFr34k@reddit
Many, many people. This sub is so wildly out of touch with what is popular with the general public lol
NotoriousCFR@reddit
It seems like only yesterday that the delusional teenagers on this subreddit were hyping up Kia/Hyundai as "KiLlInG iT" and being the second coming of Jesus, while meanwhile real life "non-car" people thought they were cheap unreliable junk and wouldn't dare touch a car from Korea
hutacars@reddit
I think it’s always been 180’d from that. Non-car-people see all the baubles they get for less than the cost of an equivalent Toyota and buy it, then are shocked when they can’t insure it and the engine explodes at 100k.
clickstops@reddit
Talk to your coworkers that you never talk to about cars. If anyone knows it exists, which they likely do due to the ad campaign, they likely want it. I had two non-car friends bring it up to me after the Super Bowl since they know I like cars.
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
It is a far better value and far better looking than a Model X
Smitty_Oom@reddit
There is a stark difference between the people in this subreddit and the general public.
readerdad55@reddit
People love their KIAs and Hyundais. My neighborhood is filled with them. Guy I know has the Ioniq 6 and absolutely loves it.
That being said 70 k seems awfully expensive
iconfuseyou@reddit
Not sure who is downvoting you, Kia/Hyundai is very popular among the general population, especially non-Redditors. It’s the (Pontiac?) of the 2020s. Lots of choices at decent prices. Where else do you get a decent 3-row EV that isn’t a model X or Rivian?
longgamma@reddit
The Hyundai ioniq seems like a good car. But it’s so hard to find in Canada and the dealers insist on some shitty graphene coat.
stealthytolkien@reddit
For that price, it is a lot of SUV. Very roomy. And drives really really well. But for that $70k price tag, the following things are hard to ignore:
No auto pilot or anything like that but HDA2 is more than enough for most use cases.
I’d say if they sold the GT line trim for $60k out the door, they’ll sell a ton more.
HotwheelsJackOfficia@reddit
And people are going to pay it like they did with the Telluride, Carnival, and the Hyundai Palisade.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Even with the economy not exactly firing on all cylinders, we still see these ridiculous markups and wait times.
I'm convinced the manufacturers are deliberately creating shortages at this point.
didimao0072000@reddit
This stupid myth needs to die. Manufacturers will produce as much as they can if there is a demand for it. They also get zero extra dollars for dealer markups.
Joatboy@reddit
Yet Toyota seems to do the opposite. I mean, it's weird that a company hates money but here we are.
AnimeAlt44@reddit
Toyota's comments get taken way out of context from people who don't understand manufacturing planning. They got utterly fucking burned by overproducing the first gen 86 and as such created or reserved smaller production lines for the GR hatch twins and Supra. That's not 'deliberately creating a shortage', it's just planning for smaller batches while allocating limited resources to other cars they expect to sell more of. None of those production lines are capable of ramping up higher they are all producing at max capacity. Same with the new Prius which was given a single factory for global production going full speed instead of two factories like some previous gens, but that second factory is busy producing other cars at full capacity.
niglet_11@reddit
I don’t think they hate money they probably have market research done that it’ll cost them less money this way.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Ford just said they're doing this, publicly. They're requiring MSRP and get a cut of this racket
ClusterFugazi@reddit
Having wait times creates demand.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
You don't think the shortages and extended waiting times doesn't push people into paying extra to get a higher trim level because it happens to be more readily available than a base model with very limited availability?
Also, the limited supply of new cars keeps residuals high, which gives people more confidence in buying new rather than used.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
No, because the OEM chooses which trims to send to dealers
RandyJackson@reddit
For bmw we get to choose our own builds but still need to maintain certain percentages for the most part.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
That's not shocking, BMW and Porsche were the only dealers near me that actually let you order a car.
didimao0072000@reddit
Manufacturers will try to maximize profits and if that strategy requires them to produce more higher trim, then they'll do it. To deliberately restrict supply when there is demand in a highly competitive market is idiotic.
GoHuskies1984@reddit
Yes, but that’s basic business 101.
If initial demand outpaces supply focus on most profitable models. Especially when there is no other three row EV at this price point for customer to buy instead.
llamacohort@reddit
Kia is the manufacturer that bounced back faster than any major manufacturer. It’s probably just that they haven’t secured the amount of lithium they would need to scale up EV production to a high level yet.
Dr_WLIN@reddit
No car manufacturers care about lithium.
They aren't the ones manufacturing the batteries. They buy complete modules that they then assemble into battery packs for their specific models.
As for the manufacturing side, cobalt is more of a concern than lithium.
llamacohort@reddit
Why are so many dumb people commenting just plainly wrong things here? Do you think supply and demand stop with one layer of abstraction? If the material that is essential to make the batteries is scares, then the company cannot buy enough completed battery packs to make the amount of vehicles they want. The lithium limitation turns into a battery pack limitation which turns into an EV limitation.
As for cobalt vs lithium, there is a lot of lithium mines that are starting to produce in the next few years. Maybe all of that material and the thousands of tons the manufacturers have allocated will just be a giant waste of money for nothing if lithium isn't an issue. I look forward to seeing the mass storage of unneeded materials.
Dr_WLIN@reddit
ahh, so youre one of those people that goes off the rails when one portion of their diatribe is corrected.
My dude, I literally work for a EV battery cell manufacturer and have a degree in economics. I didn't care enough about your comment to spend the time to type out ever aspect of why your comment was incorrect.
Kia. doest. Give. A. Fuck. About. Lithium.
That's not Kia's problem, that's a problem for Samsung, LG, SK, Panasonic, and LG.
Kia only cares about who has the better deal on batteries. In a decade or so we'll all have moved in to wet solidum ion batteries or sodium ion solid state anyway.
llamacohort@reddit
This would be a good time to focus that economics degree on this key factor. Dig into that a few layers and you will have it.
Lets say hypothetically, Hyundai/Kia wanted to move their entire manufacturing to all BEVs tomorrow. Do you think there is a company that is prepared to sell them 7 million 70 kWh battery packs today? You are in the industry, you know the answer. They can't because the materials for those batteries just don't exist. At least not in a way that wouldn't affect the rest of the industry and planet's use of batteries.
I agree that we will develop better battery formulas. But today, companies that want to make more EVs are limited by the materials for the batteries.
Dr_WLIN@reddit
You're trying to play hypotheticals that literally don't exist.
Kia doesn't have "wants".
They have reactions to market conditions.
And in your hypothetical, that wouldn't happen. Kia would determine the need, then partner with a manufacturer to build the required amount of factories to fulfill that need. The manufacturers just sell/license out their technology to the subsidiaries or joint ventures of the car manufacturers. The majority of the automotive conglomerates are in an arms race right now to build factories as quickly as possible. They're playing catch up to Tesla/Panasonic, from a quantity standpoint..
llamacohort@reddit
Agreed. But some of those market conditions are raw material limitations. That is why Kia can't react to the customer's demands the way that would be most profitable. That leaves a case like the OP article where dealerships can charge additional money for a vehicle that has high demand and low supply.
You make it out like companies just look at the quarterly report for what vehicles are selling well and make an adjustment for next quarter. If that was the case, vehicles wouldn't have market adjustments and waitlists.
In the real world, these things are very slow. That is why Panasonic and Toyota made a deal in 2022 to get lithium that would deliver from 2025 to 2030. They are trying to increase capacity for EVs and hybrids, but major adjustments in raw materials are slower than just partnering with a company to make whatever wishlist of batteries a company wants.
Dr_WLIN@reddit
You literally didn't comprehend anything I said.
And then just said what I said with more words.
llamacohort@reddit
Do you really think these are the same? I said manufacturers do care about resource scarcity and it affects the amount of units they can build. You said manufacturers don't care about lithium. I showed a company literally investing in future lithium years out because they can't just buy it currently.
It pretty much shows that everything you said it wrong. Manufacturers do care about lithium (that's why they are making deals to secure it) and it affects current production (that is why they have to buy it so far in advance).
Dr_WLIN@reddit
jfc dude. Do you even know why Cobalt is needed or why it's a concern?
I'm going to say this again, lithium isnt the concern. I don't care enough to hold your hand through this, you have Google.
Now use it.
llamacohort@reddit
You said manufacturers don't care about lithium... I showed you manufacturers making deals years in advance for lithium. Why are you taking it so personal that companies do care about and have a huge lead time for getting the lithium needed to make the current gen batteries. This isn't a personal attack on you, it's just a fact that companies are concerned about that particular material that happens to be in the process of slowly scaling up mining.
Dr_WLIN@reddit
Is your understanding of conversational English actually this poor, or do you always cling into one aspect of a point so that you can walk away feeling like you won?
I was speaking comparatively. Li vs Co.
I genuinely feel sorry for people that have to interact with you regularly.
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AnAutisticGuy@reddit
It's cute that you assume good intentions or at least good reasons, but there's no chance a dealership is assessing lithium mining, evaluating a shortage, and than marking up prices based on that. That's not the way greed and corruption works. Just to ruin your assessment, I was looking at Chevy EUVs in my area (and there are plenty available) and they were marked up like $5k. Dealerships are just doing this to create fake shortages and due to blind greed.
llamacohort@reddit
I think you might be lost. You know dealerships don’t manufacture the vehicles, right?
Dealerships are reacting to high demand and short supply of EVs. Manufacturers are reacting to high demand and low supply of lithium. Lithium mining is scaling up to meet demands, but it is a very slow process and takes years to get new mines up and running.
AnAutisticGuy@reddit
Actually, lithium is a less important component of batteries than it was. Your focus on lithium is outdated.
llamacohort@reddit
If you can point me to any articles that show lithium mines shutting down and the new ones canceling plans to open, then I would love to believe you.
AnAutisticGuy@reddit
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/20/business/lithium-prices-falling-electric-vehicles.html
llamacohort@reddit
Um... you can see that it calls lithium "an essential battery material" before getting a dozen words into the article. How is it a less important and also essential?
AnAutisticGuy@reddit
Yeah no kidding. I’ll repeat what I said. Lithium is a less important component of today’s batteries. Please read only what I said. No claims of being inessential.
skerpz@reddit
You’re wasting your breath (fingers?) man. Reddit is a very special place. It’s like arguing with the pantsless guy on the commuter rail train who was just whispering into a large seashell.
Ya-im-that-guy@reddit
I think you might be lost. Manufacturers, who are impacted by lithium supply, do not set the price of the car. The dealer sets the price.
Dealers, who are unaffected by lithium supply, are the ones doing the markup.
This is not difficult to comprehend.
llamacohort@reddit
Do you not understand cause and effect? Lithium supply is low, so the number of EVs that can be made is lower than demand. Dealerships have a low supply of these EVs and there is a high demand for them. The most basic concept in economics shows that it would be a good idea for them to increase the price if people are willing to pay it.
Anyways, back to the original claim I disagreed with. The manufactures aren't making less cars just because they like seeing their dealerships add market adjustments to the price of their vehicles. They would rather just make more of the high demand vehicle and sell more units. It's just a really dumb conspiracy.
TenguBlade@reddit
Hyundai Motor Group’s EV plan is to build 1.5 million EVs annually by 2030. Their battery supply capacity is definitely not scaling at the rate of some of their competitors.
llamacohort@reddit
Didn’t Ford just announce that they were scaling back and didn’t intend on hitting their goals? I don’t think I would measure a company’s goals against another company’s goal that they didn’t meet.
TenguBlade@reddit
Yes. Ford backed off that 2 million by 2026 goal and is now aiming for something more in-line with Hyundai’s growth plan.
llamacohort@reddit
How serious a company takes EVs in the US is strongly correlated to their fleet emissions. Ford is serious because they make a lot of trucks. GM is serious because they make a lot of trucks. Hyundai/Kia is rolling things out, but not going to sell vehicles at a loss because they aren’t trying to offset the carbon credits they have to buy. And that is why Toyota is super slow on EVs. They have so many hybrids they don’t give a crap about the fleet emissions that other companies are struggling to meet.
guisar@reddit
Ford is dreaming. KIA I'm sure if seeing if it's worth the quick expansion when they have similar companies in China looking to expand at the same time. US competitors are the least of their worries.
Hustletron@reddit
North America is a key profit center so I’m sure they are worried at least a little but you’re right.
MigratingSwallow@reddit
The redesigns have helped significantly. We bought a Kia Sportage for an SUV, and it's been a great vehicle so far. Who knows what to expect for longevity but s long as it lasts us 5-7 years, I'm fine with it.
lee1026@reddit
Nah, lithium prices are crashing. At current prices, there are like $800 of lithium in a car, hardly worth worrying about.
Hustletron@reddit
Even battery cell manufacturing is starting to catch up to demand.
lee1026@reddit
It is an industry wide problem - everyone up and down the chain assumed EVs would be selling a certain rate, EVs are selling at less than that rate. That means there are extra cars piling up on dealer lots, which means car companies cut back on building them, which means the battery cell makers have extra cells piling up, which means that the lithium miners now have extra lithium piling up.
errie_tholluxe@reddit
And yet somehow price cuts aren't on the horizon yet
Hustletron@reddit
They weren’t barely profitable before in many cases, especially with companies rolling investment costs for tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers into their business cases.
knowledgeable_diablo@reddit
I’d think they are deliberately not extending themselves too much into a new market seeing there’s all the reports of EVs cooling off. Better to have people wait a little of this is the vehicle they are pineing for than over commit and end up with too many that can’t be moved like traditional ICE vehicles they have a good history on selling and fairly robust back up sales plans with rebates and other sales tactics.
Just a guess though as KIA do t seem to have a problem getting bulk volume of all their other models built and moved to each market place.
ElPlatanoDelBronx@reddit
Exactly, not having inventory means you have a good cash flow, but having too much inventory means you have an assload of cash parked in assets that you’re slowly going to make less profit on.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
It's because "free cash flow" is the C-suite executive corporate incentive target flavor of the month at the moment. My company is going through that shitstorm right now and all the accounting fuckery that goes with it.
ElPlatanoDelBronx@reddit
It’s because it helps companies grow well and very quickly, but when you get a bunch of dickheads that have no idea what they’re doing or the risk involved in their decisions it tends to go badly. Im currently going through it, but we’re focusing on becoming debt free instead of aggressively investing it into more merchandise. I feel like I can breathe for the first time in 3 months.
untrustableskeptic@reddit
This sounds a lot like the reason I was laid off from my buying job. Sales teams had us buy a ton of material that never got moved and squashed our company.
ElPlatanoDelBronx@reddit
Yeahh, don’t let sales dictate how much you buy ever. Let the accountants do their forecasting and run their numbers, it’s literally what they went to school for.
untrustableskeptic@reddit
Yeah, I have degrees in corporate finance and project management. The company was screwed before I ever got there, I was actually the sixth buyer they had in 18 months. I've got a big interview tomorrow that I think would be a better fit for me anyway.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
My company set that as their target and then immediately went out and "bought" another company that was nearly the same size as them, then massacred our bonuses due to missing the "free cash flow" target.
Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit
Yeah but not having inventory also means leaving cash on the table. Because you have willing buyers you can't complete a sale on.
ElPlatanoDelBronx@reddit
Yeah, ideally you want to have the exact right amount of inventory, but that’s damn near impossible to do, and you’re usually better off by having less inventory than more.
MaryJaneAssassin@reddit
I agree. It’s equals more cash flow so they can keep the numbers looking good for the rich investors.
knowledgeable_diablo@reddit
And considering their sister company Hyundai who use identical supply chains seam to have less trouble sourcing and supplying their EV range, it seems strange that Kia are not bringing in their limited range in greater numbers. Especially seeing as they seem to be better looking and have greater buyer demand.
xkmackx@reddit
They're artificially raising the price. Demand isn't as high as they make it out to be.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kia-canada-car-sales-1.7063216
llamacohort@reddit
So, just to get this straight, you are claiming that a scheme from Kia dealerships in Ontario, Canada are the reason for the market adjustment in California? I guess all I can say is that I disagree with that being a reasonable claim.
vhalember@reddit
From a Bloomberg article in May:
"Ford Motor Co. said this month it is aiming to maintain robust sticker prices, even if that means rolling fewer cars off its assembly lines."
Companies have been deliberately lowering production to create artificial shortages starting later in COVID. This has also happened with NVIDIA products and the meat market, and likely quite a few more.
It's an all-out greed festival by companies post-COVID...
My very small part to counteract it in the car community is I sold my 3-year old vehicle for a 7-year old vehicle.
Fade_Dance@reddit
NVIDIA maxes out their TSMC utilization for datacenter/AI products. It's not "artificial shortage" to choose to maximize production of products that have 5x the margin of consumer parts. NVIDIA has zero excess capacity available.
AbbreviationsKnown24@reddit
Yeah, unless Nvidia is literally buying chips and not using them, this was definitely not the case from ~2020->2023. Every bit of a capacity was being used up during that time, and TSMC was even cancelling orders for some customers because they couldn't handle all the demand.
dciuqoc@reddit
They are betting on the fact that Americans love to keep up with the Joneses.
Chokedee-bp@reddit
It’s the local dealers that want to kill evs- not the manufacturers.
Dealers will have much lower service revenue from evs that require less maintenance- no oil changes, no carbon buildup, no throttle body or transmission cleaning etc.
capinprice@reddit
Efficiency and lower costs for the shareholders, wait times and higher prices for the consumers
AtomWorker@reddit
You do understand that dealers pocket the markup, not the automaker, right?
capinprice@reddit
Maybe, who knows. Its a business at the end of the day.
lee1026@reddit
New cars always take time to ramp. Gen 1s are always in shortage for a bit.
Moist109@reddit
Not exactly firing on all cylinders? Unemployment is near historic lows, stock market is at ATH, and real gdp is growing at >3%. The economy is booming, whether you believe it or not
AtomWorker@reddit
Inventory is always limited when any new car rolls of the line. That's not a conspiracy, it's just the reality for manufacturing. What do automakers have to gain anyway?
If you want to blame anyone, it's the idiots rushing out to buy a brand new car instead of waiting 6 months for stock to plentiful.
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
With EVs, it is really hard to source the highest capacity batteries at a decent price. They're often the reason there are wait times.
Tesla doesn't have this problem because they control much of that supply chain. The Chinese have a similar setup, but via the government.
m1a2c2kali@reddit
And then 2 years later they say oh we need to rethink our strategy because they’re not selling well.
Ill-Train6478@reddit
You sound as if this car has been in the market for years. Simple math would be one factor producing this model then will ship out to multiple continents then to various different countries within their continents. How exactly any manufacturer decreases production and creates artificial shortage when the model just started ramping up production exactly?
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boe_jackson_bikes@reddit
Dave Ramsey is gonna have a field day when these lose 80% of their value in 2 years.
beingsmartkills@reddit
No worries, eventually we will have a crash, and those who wait will laugh to the bank.
One_Shallot_4974@reddit
If people are willing to burn 7k to be the first one on the block, good for them. I hope they enjoy it and its worth the money to them.
AggravatingZone991@reddit
Imagine paying over MSRP for a Kia 😂😂😂
virgosnake777@reddit
Kia dealerships are the worst.
I’ve tried to buy a Kia 2x. Went to a dealership, with my mind made up to buy one. Both times I ended up buying another car. The dealership experience was so horrible. Maybe it was for the best. I missed out on the Kia/Hyundai car break ins.
paranoidwarlock@reddit
I called a dealership trying to buy one but wanted numbers. They wanted me to come in physically before discussing details. I bought an R1S 🤷
XSC@reddit
Same with Hyundai dealerships. They suck.
Sun_Aria@reddit
Yes but what about the GENESIS buying experience? 😏
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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strongmanass@reddit
The truth is that Hyundai and Kia dealerships are undoing all the good work the manufacturers have been trying to shed their old image and move upmarket (on the manufacturer side, their response to the recent thefts hasn't helped). They have compelling EVs, but if the dealership experience continues to be horrible it will just send buyers straight to their competitors. And with their EVs they don't have cheap pricing to fall back on anymore.
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Cantshaktheshok@reddit
Not trying to attack you, but where do you (and all these other commenters with the same experience) live that the Kia/Toyota/Chevy/Honda/VW aren't all in the same "John Doe family" of dealerships and the sales managers at the Toyota dealership weren't at Kia 3 months ago?
Everywhere I've lived it's the same story, 2-4 dealer groups make up 90+% of new car inventory. Ultimately the dealership experience is more a factor of which group actually runs it, not the brand they are selling. Sure I won't go to the local Hyundai dealer for service, but that's a combined Chevy/Buick/GMC/Hyundai service department that just doesn't hire any managers or communicate. People give horrible feedback on that group's BMW dealership as well.
DriverDenali@reddit
Kia successfully pushed me to get an Audi s5 over a stinger, because their dealer network is trash.
coltjen@reddit
Great choice!
IAmTheWasted@reddit
How are you on r/cars and still want to buy a Kia 💀
elelelleleleleelle@reddit
I really like my Kia.
IAmTheWasted@reddit
Good luck with the ENGINE BLOCK RECALL
Leek5@reddit
Is it really selling that well that they can mark it up?
WaffleBruhs@reddit
It's a brand new model and at MSRP it's very well priced. So I'm not surprised.
willard_swag@reddit
$70k OTD for a Kia of any kind is definitely not “very well priced”. Not even close.
faizimam@reddit
If you are set on a Ev, the ev9 is the cheapest one with 3 usable rows on the market.
hutacars@reddit
Model X is $2500 more after tax credit (which the Kia doesn’t qualify for (unless leased, obviously)). Likely the best $2500 you’ll spend.
faizimam@reddit
Model X is fine, but it's smaller than a ev9. Also does not have a 7 seat option.
For my purposes model X is not big enough to be a serious option.
But if it works for you I agree you should go for it.
hutacars@reddit
Seems we’re both wrong. There is a 7 seat option, but it’s $3500, pushing you over the $80k limit and disqualifying you from the tax credit. Lame.
It’s an inch longer than the EV9. Unless you mean some other dimension?
faizimam@reddit
Sorry, but I just fact checked your assertion that the prices are similar.
Im in Canada, where the base trim model X is $110,000 and the middle trim ev9 is $65,000...
Yeah, that's not happening.
snoo-suit@reddit
This might surprise you, but different companies do different things in Canada, compared to not-Canada.
faizimam@reddit
I mean leg room, head room and storage space in the trunck with all seats occupied.
Model xis a much less tall curved frame and it absolutely impacts interior space.
Simon676@reddit
Seems very typical of this brand to get hung up on brand image...
foampro@reddit
I would hardly say it’s well priced.
gropingpriest@reddit
it's definitely not, unless you're dead set on an EV for whatever reason
we test drove it and definitely preferred the Telluride which is way cheaper, and that will far offset any fuel savings
RiftHunter4@reddit
No EV's are currently worth a markup. Depreciation has hit them hard after just a few thousand miles. IMO you'd have to be stupid to pay over MSRP for an EV right now because they lose nearly 50% of their value within 2 or 3 years.
cardshot17@reddit
Imo you have to be stupid to base your car buying on their value in 2-3 years, since that is an incredibly short time to plan to have a car. But I agree completely about not paying over msrp for any car.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Its worth mentioning because you essentially just wait a few months and buy a like-new one for several thousand off.
cardshot17@reddit
Great point! Hadn't thought about it that way.
faizimam@reddit
I wish. Looking at used Evs and it's not nearly that much.
RiftHunter4@reddit
In my area they are dirt cheap compared to MSRP. A Porsche Taycan is a $65k car with under 50k miles. Even from Porsche certified-used they are under $80k, thousands less than their $100k new price.
Non-luxury EV's are cheap too. There's a good number of Kia EV's in my area because they sell used for $30k to $50k. You can get a sub-10k miles EV6 GT for under $45k over here. That's $20k lost in depreciation in just a year.
At least for me, a used EV is now cheaper than most ICE options.
Simon676@reddit
Yeah no that's not really true.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Unless you are buying a Rimac or Lotus Evija, EV prices are tanking on the used market.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-cars-lose-half-value-060000890.html
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2023/11/07/evs-depreciate-more-than-any-other-vehicle-type--study-says
SavageGeese did a whole video about good EV deals out there due to depreciation
It's really not worth paying a markup for one because you are almost guaranteed to be underwater in it within a year or two.
N651EB@reddit
Really varies by region. US dealers sold 1,113 units in December and increased to 1,408 in January. Will be interesting to see if it keeps pace throughout the year. For all the markups out there, there’s plenty of dealers also willing to sell these under MSRP for savvy buyers willing to travel for the right deal, and lots of EV buyers fall into that category. I reserved an EV9 through my local dealer and nearly walked away from it for an out-of-state deal until my local dealer finally came around. Ended up getting a GT-Line for $2.2k under MSRP. We love it. It’s an amazing vehicle.
Harryhodl@reddit
Happens every time, all the time.
falcon0159@reddit
My local dealers are $2k under MSRP for these.
dngdzzo@reddit
Dealers suck! That's all I have to say.
DJAllOut@reddit
Another day, another article about Kia, another reason I'll never buy one
1989toy4wd@reddit
We don’t have markups at ours, but we haven’t sold a single one… 80k for a Kia, let alone an electric one?
thedrivingcat@reddit
anecdotal but the nearby Hyundai dealer has four Ionic 5's sitting on the lot right now, my understanding is these had huge waitlists (in Canada) only a year or two ago
is it that people have stopped buying, or that dealers are trying to increase the price through additional addons/mark-ups and that's causing buyers to balk?
stav_and_nick@reddit
Where are you seeing them sit? My Hyundai dealer said it's a 4 year waitlist around me, and I don't think they're just trying to get me to piss off; I see them get frequent deliveries and just evaporate off the lot
thedrivingcat@reddit
GTA dealer but maybe I'm just seeing different inventory rotate through but parked in the same places; they're all grey or silver anyway hah.
1989toy4wd@reddit
In the US they don’t get the rebates. That’s why they aren’t selling. Also in my city of 300kish we have like 10 charging stations. And most are at dealerships.
alextruetone@reddit
Lol you’d have to be a regard to pay a markup on any Kia
Max-Powah@reddit
I briefly considered a Telluride until I started talking to a Kia/Hyundai dealership. What a bunch of clowns. They wouldn't disclose how much they were going to mark one up (I was pretty sure it was ten grand but I wanted to hear them say it) but "I should just come in and test drive." I said I won't even consiser paying a 20% markup on something that will lose all that value the second I drive it off the lot. So let's not waste each other's time. I'm not going to test drive something when I don't even know what it costs. They still wouldn't divulge. Nothing but fucking grifters.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
I called 5 dealers before I placed an order for my trucklet. 4 of them were clearly playing games on the phone, so I didn't even go in person. How nice of them to save my time...
Max-Powah@reddit
True that, brother. Mea while, Ford gave me two grand for customer loyalty ona 21 Explorer Limited that my wife drives (and loves) and a nice price on my trade in. I bought an Explorer ST a year later.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Hell of a deal!
Max-Powah@reddit
And that was in August 21 when no one was dealing. I guess Ford wanted to keep my business and KIA was only about the quick buck. Cool, I guess.
BillsMafia4Lyfe69@reddit
An extra $7k first year depreciation!
DM725@reddit
Kia started doing some good things in the last 5 years but their dealership markups during 2021-present have put me off ever giving the brand a shot again any time soon.
MomsSpagetee@reddit
Are you also giving up Ford and VW and Toyota and…?
DM725@reddit
Could you finish your thought?
MomsSpagetee@reddit
They all had markups and the list goes on.
DM725@reddit
There was a point where most manufacturers tried to get markup in the 2021-2022 window but it returned to normal much quicker than Kia (plus they wanted a markup on essentially every car across the entire range and not just the Telluride and hot sellers). Couple that with the shitty dealer experience they already had and it was a joke. Acted like they were selling luxury sports cars.
I had very little issue getting deals for several people and my family at MSRP from other manufacturers.
TLDR: Anyone that paid a large markup for a Kia in that time got proper fucked.
wild_a@reddit
$83k for a KN? I make stupid decisions but not that stupid.
ByteWanderer@reddit (OP)
I'm not sure I would have Kia at the level of Audi and BMW. Not even close. May be I'm old school.
vhalember@reddit
The Telluride looks great.
Almost everything else is... yeah, it's a Kia.
Manafont-@reddit
Maybe it is just a fluke or an anomaly in my area, but Telluride drivers around me drive with a unique combination of obliviousness and misplaced entitlement to the point that I cannot even stand to look at them anymore.
Flying through school zones, cutting you off at the last second before stoplights, texting while tailgating, etc. Interestingly, the Palisade doesn’t seem to suffer from the same drivers.
Medical-Gate-9978@reddit
I had a Telluride driver (friend) tell me he essentially had a Range Rover Autobiography and double parks “so lessers won’t hit his $70k luxury car”
Manafont-@reddit
I mean, he has a point apart from the interior design and quality, the sophisticated AWD system and general off-road prowess, the air suspension, the powertrain, the heritage… wait what were we talking about?
Cantshaktheshok@reddit
The nicest leather and surfaces in the world can't make me take the iPad mount seriously as good interior design.
Manafont-@reddit
Have you been in one? They feel incredible and everything is well-designed and cohesive, iPad or no.
Cantshaktheshok@reddit
It's been a few years, but still it has a shift knob, start button, and touchscreen. It's just not anything functional in design, or really have any nice elements outside of the separated upper dash despite how nice it might feel. It's a really basic "modern" design, and man does that start button stand out in a bad way on one of the 6 different flat surfaces with 3 different finishes that make up the center console. https://www.landroverusa.com/range-rover/range-rover/curated-gallery.html
strongmanass@reddit
They might not hit it, but he's making himself a target for someone to key it.
vhalember@reddit
I don't think it's a fluke, I see that entitled driving from Telluride drivers around here too.
The worst is still the left-lane Prius though.
Simon676@reddit
EV9 and EV6 too, easily as nice if not nicer.
4N8NDW@reddit
Kia did hire some BMW designers and the EVs are closer to the luxury makers in terms of fit and finish.
The reliability of the internal combustion Kias is generally low. . .in a few years we'll have a better idea on the EV Kias.
m034rt@reddit
Outdated info.
Most dealers are offering MSRP minus anywhere from $500 to $4,500 already because the inventory is stacking. Do your research.
WhenIsWheresWhat@reddit
Kia by me has 3k adm on their Souls and 5k on Tellurides
increasingrain@reddit
I can understand for the Telluride, but for the Soul?
WhenIsWheresWhat@reddit
Looks like it may be gone now, this was over the summer when I was looking.
elinyera@reddit
"Over the summer" man, that was more than half a year ago.
WhenIsWheresWhat@reddit
Sorry I don't check in with the local dealer every week.
dcux@reddit
LOL imagine paying 3k above sticker on a base model $20k kia...
SuicideSquirrel14@reddit
That’s what I’ve been seeing as well. Discounts on these across the board.
SukiDobe@reddit
I have at least one customer each month buy a BMW because of these mark ups from other brands.
StringChz11@reddit
A few months ago on Facebook marketplace I saw a Kia dealer near Nashville had one of these listed for 93k. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me
CoolBDPhenom03@reddit
Even if I were a millionaire, I'd still refuse to pay any ADM out of principle.
utechap@reddit
There’s like 25 of these at my local dealer.
Dynetor@reddit
I really don’t understand how dealers in the US get away with this. Do the manufacturers not have anything to say about it? In the UK the manufacturers put the price in the advert thats on TV etc and thats the price you pay at the dealer.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Manufacturers don't care. That's why the prices are advertised at MSRP - Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Imagine paying a markup on a Kia...
rVintageRKO@reddit
Imagine paying mark up for a kia 💀
r_golan_trevize@reddit
Are people ever going to learn not to pay markups on Kia/Hyundai?
No-Definition1474@reddit
I just dove into this car at an auto show. Very cool SUV. My whole family wants us to get one. The price is too steep atm however. We will probably get one that is used as soon as they hit the market. The decent trims are about 60k.
jrileyy229@reddit
Not sure how it impacts EVs, but it's almost not worth buying used because you lose so much warranty vs buying new. 10/100k converts to like 5y/50k. It's a big difference
KrazyKraka@reddit
Found the dealership rep
No-Definition1474@reddit
Good point
vhalember@reddit
He doesn't have a good point my friend.
Go look up the prices of the Kia EV6. They lost a third of their value in the first year. They're a much better deal used than new.
Kia is notorious for trying to worm their way out of warranties though, on that end I'd be careful. That 10/100 warranty is the most shady in the auto-business.
vhalember@reddit
They're worth buying used.
Look up the value of used 2023 Kia EV6, with less than 10k miles. They're all 10-15k (or more) off MSRP in just one-year. This substantiates the articles where they write about EV's losing value at a crazy rate. 33.7% over the first year, and 51% over three years.
Meanwhile, my wife's minvan - a vehicle renowned for high deprecation, only lost 41% of its value over 3 years. My truck lost 32% over 4+ years, and Rams are in a freefall for residuals currently due to a 200+ day supply of overpriced new Rams.
Silverchaoz@reddit
Ive also driven one in the Netherlands and for comparison, this car is literally truck-sized in this country with small roads and especially small parking spots.
A VW UP! Is a very common car here (and alot of grocery cars) and you can place for sure 2-3 UP!'s next to it and its still longer than 3 of them.
But i had to say the car is very smooth, alot of technology and fun to drive. Better than i expected.
No-Definition1474@reddit
Yeah it really seems like a step up for Kia
foampro@reddit
I have not seen one on the road yet and I live in an area where every 10th car is a Tesla.
Neat_Molasses_436@reddit
IDK why anyone is buying marked up cars. I'll find a dealership that sells at retail even if I have to book a flight, pick it up, and drive 8 hrs.
Drzhivago138@reddit
And that's not always feasible for a family...
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
It’s insane that dealers aren’t getting slapped by manufacturers for doing this, they have to be hurting sales.
jrileyy229@reddit
Manufacturer isn't hurt... Once the car is at the dealer, MFR is paid.
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
I guess, but if the dealers were actually moving cars they would probably make more on restocks, no?
Chi-Guy86@reddit
Only so much they can do. The dealership lobby here in the US is a powerful one, and lobbies at all levels of government.
vhalember@reddit
Yeah, people have no idea how influential car dealerships are in American politics.
NADA is effectively an organization of 17,000 land barons, with members in every major town in the US. They're the largest and most effective lobby in the US, and it isn't even close.
oneplusoneispurple@reddit
I still remember literally laughing my ass out of a Kia dealership when the salesman wanted $10K over sticker for low trim model Telluride. That's when I started rooting the the Kia boys or whatever fuck those fucks are called.
GojiraApocolypse@reddit
A fool and his money…
Volte@reddit
Dealerships are fking leeches
HatRemov3r@reddit
Dealers gonna dealer
dirty_cuban@reddit
I thought no one was buying EVs.
p0u1@reddit
Getting marked down in the uk, still massively overpriced
Manafont-@reddit
Not exactly a cross-shop…
elbobo19@reddit
anyone paying over retail for a Kia EV really better look at the price of used 2023 EV6s, they have fallen off a depreciation cliff that make German luxury cars look stable in pricing by comparison.
BeKind_BeTheChange@reddit
Wanna know an easy way to avoid these greed-based markups? Don't buy the car. I would never pay a markup for any car, period.
nauticalfiesta@reddit
Haven't they learned?
axck@reddit
This doesn’t make any sense. Aren’t new car sales slow? EVs especially? Why would they still be doing this?
WatchStoredInAss@reddit
They are slow. Clickbait article.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
BuckTheFuckNaked@reddit
The orders on the warranty come from the OEM
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EconomyFreakDust@reddit
I'm already seeing discounts in the UK lmao
Chi-Guy86@reddit
Every time I think about looking at a Kia or Hyundai product, I remember all the stories about their awful dealer experience and move on to other choices.
ishaansaral@reddit
No surprise. They're the first mainstream large 3 row EV to market. They literally have no competition yet. This thing is selling amazing in Europe and is priced reasonably for European pricing.
Avanixh@reddit
I wouldn’t drive this thing if they gave me 7k to do so…