Why are my family obsessed with pensions?

Posted by Comfortable_Fail993@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 190 comments

Hi all, So basically I work with the NHS and have done for six years. I hate my trust and my job. I work as a lab assistant, I don't have a science degree so managers keep saying leave, I earn minimum wage, the shifts are ridiculous and I get no satisfaction from my job whatsoever. Yet my parents and grandparents say "stay in the NHS you get a great pension". Is being miserable for another 40 years really worth the pension?

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LondonCycling@reddit

We could rephrase the question slightly.. Why do your family members in, or close to, retirement, care about your pension so much? A lot of people don't think about their pension until it's too late. Young people especially are more likely to opt out of pensions because they want or need the extra income. The NHS pension is one of the best pensions in the country. Like most public sector, it's a 'defined benefit' pension, which guarantees you income for the entire of your retirement; whereas a lot of private sector pensions are 'defined contribution', where you build up a pot, and it's on you to make it last the length of your retirement. The income from the NHS pension is, frankly, fantastic, and very secure. That said, if you're miserable in a job, I don't recommend staying long term. It's one thing to stick a crap job out for a year or two if there's a particular reason like saving for a house deposit, or getting your first job on your CV. It's a whole other thing to do it for many years just for the pension. You can build up a decent pension in almost any job with the same skills.

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Thestilence@reddit

Living in misery for 40-50 years just for more money when you're old and knackered doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

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timeywimeywibbles@reddit

The 2008 scheme onwards is defined contribution, not defined benefit, at least for non-clinical roles. It's still excellent as the NHS pays in more than the employee by quite some way but it's not as great as you might think. Anyone joining now will be enrolled in the 2015 scheme which is also DC

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LondonCycling@reddit

No it's not. It's still DB. The change in 2008 was to make the benefit based off the best 3 years from the last 10 years before retirement, rather than simply final salary. This was then changed in 2015 to be average earnings (Career Valued Average Earnings, or CARE), rather than final salary. The 2008 and 2015 schemes are still DB. I think even most proponents of DB schemes admit final salary benefits are absurd.

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luckeratron@reddit

I thought the NHS pension was a mixture of DB and DC with the DB element being salary linked a bit like a teacher's pension.

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LondonCycling@reddit

It's DB, not hybrid.

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timeywimeywibbles@reddit

No, it's DC for anyone who joined after 2008

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LondonCycling@reddit

No it's not. It's still DB. The change in 2008 was to make the benefit based off average earnings (Career Valued Average Earnings, or CARE), rather than final salary. I think even most proponents of DB schemes admit final salary benefits are absurd.

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luckeratron@reddit

Thanks for confirming, absolute madness.

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Pargula_@reddit

How long do you have to work on the nhs to qualify for the pension?

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No_Quality_6874@reddit

You pay in monthly. It's a defined benefit pension. It's based over 30 years. You get a certain % of your wage every year added to your pension for those 30 years. Which is then paid at that level, rising with inflation, for the rest of your life when you retire.

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Pargula_@reddit

So if you are not working there for at least30 years it's not worth it?

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Adamsoski@reddit

If you're of working age in the UK and have these questions you probably need to do some reading about how pensions work, it's important knowledge that a few reddit comments are not going to help you with.

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Pargula_@reddit

I've worked in private companies most of my life and I'm well aware of how private pensions work. Just not public sector ones. No need to be unnecessarily condescending, pal.

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gameofgroans_@reddit

Pensions always feel like something that would have been useful to learn about at school eh. But hey, at least I read Lord of the Flies which has been really helpful.

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Pargula_@reddit

Be honest, you would have not paid any attention to it and so would most kids.

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gameofgroans_@reddit

Well I’ve paid enough attention to remember a lot of the useless info we learnt

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No_Quality_6874@reddit

Not at all. You won't get a better pension. Because other pensions, when you take money out, the pot depletes and doesnt rise with inflation. A defined benefit pension you will get the same amount every year until you die, the pot doesn't deplete. Then it will rise with inflation. Every year you work, you get more money a year when you retire up to a maximum of 30.

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Aetheriao@reddit

The max is now 45 - retirement age is 67 lol. It’s not 30.

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No_Quality_6874@reddit

I'll be totally honest. I've been slightly misled by the nurses at work. Who told me the nhs had moved to alpha pension.

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bowak@reddit

Alpha doesn't have a maximum of 30 years either. It's 2.32% of your salary each year, with an inflation related uprating each year. You can earn as many years as you work in the system. I wonder if the people saying a 30 year max are mixing it up with the older state pension rules? Until the mid 20-teens you needed 30 years of NI contributions to max out the state pension.

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Aetheriao@reddit

You can be a nurse and be on the alpha plan but it normally means transferring from the nhs to the civil service and picking to switch rather than keep the nhs plan. The civil service also has nurses but you can keep your nhs pension instead. For example working for the DHSC.

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Pargula_@reddit

So it would be worth it to switch to work for the nhs say, for the last 10 years of your career?

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oblivion6202@reddit

You get a percentage of your salary multiplied by the number of years of service. So the more years, the higher the multiplier. If you started out earning peanuts but your final salary at retirement after 40 years is massive, it's the massive that'll be informing your pension size, with the years of shit money providing the multiplier. There are staff improvement programmes in every part of the NHS. Make use of them, and those will help you move on and up.

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No_Quality_6874@reddit

Any years on a DB pension are worth it from a monetary perspective. You are getting a great return on your cash.

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Ok-Train5382@reddit

That’s not how it works. If you pay in for 30 years you get let’s say 20k a year when you retire. If you work for 15 years you’d still get 10k a year from the NHS pension and then whatever you’ve put in a private sector pension on top of that

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Pargula_@reddit

I see, thanks.

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Klumber@reddit

37 years now, still a great pension scheme though.

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cleanacc3@reddit

I thought it was defined contribution? Where the employer contributes approximately 20% of your taxable salary. Is there any documentation for this?

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confuzzledfather@reddit

The exact calculation depends on when you joined I think. The current scheme is apparently less generous than the old one.

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Askduds@reddit

Assuming anything nhs will be the same when op needs it in several decades is a risk in itself mind.

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

This is what I keep hearing the pension is the best but also I hear of people leaving all the time to the private sector for jobs with better salaries and hours.

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gowithflow192@reddit

You can always go private and throw some of the extra salary into your pension.

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ralaman@reddit

You can't have the best of both worlds..

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Aetheriao@reddit

Because as an MLA 95% of MLA jobs outside of the NHS will also pay the same or barely better than band 2/3 wages. When you add in the pension it’s a net loss. There’s no point leaving the NHS if you can’t push your salary up to 30k+ doing something else. If you have a long term plan it’s a good idea. If you’re just gonna leave for another poorly paid private MLA role or minimum wage job there’s no point leaving. My mum worked band 2-3 most of her life and had a 20k pension a year… you’ll never afford that privately. It’s either upskill into a long term career where you can earn median or higher (35k) in the next 5-10 years or just stay. Logically leaving this for another low paid job is not a good choice.

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Rtnscks@reddit

This is good advice. Best way out is to train or study for a promotion or for an alternative NHS dept

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No_Quality_6874@reddit

They do because the money is in your hand. The NHS has massive advantages. The pension being one of them, you can probably add £400 a month to your wage to get close (probably a lot more). You have great job security. You can transfer around to do many different roles and get lots of training to move up or to different roles. You have great sick pay and sick benefits and will be treated by hr a lot better than anywhere else. That said, it's not for everyone. Your happiness is worth more than any amount of money. Just be warned, the grass isn't always greener.

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LondonCycling@reddit

This is the classic public vs private sector trade-off yep. I've worked in both, and would choose differently at different points in my life. There's no way I'd get my current salary in the public sector. I'd have to be in charge of a whole government department or something. So I'd rather have the high pay and sort my own pension out right now. But once I've got a house sorted, I'd more than happily take public pay in exchange for more annual leave, job security, DB pension, etc.

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Neat-Ostrich7135@reddit

The income from a pension on a minimum wage salary is not going to be fantastic. Potentially retire on 2/3 final salary, which is incredible, but 2/3 of not a lot, is still nit much. So it depends on OP advancing in his career. This is less likely for someonne with such a negative view of his position. So IMO OP is better of leaving for better paid work elsewhere, but should factor In 15% pension contributions when comparing pay. (Total between employer and employee contributions)

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Aetheriao@reddit

At 24k you’d need 25-28%+ including employer to equal the nhs pension over 40 years.

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4zzy@reddit

Triple check you are on a NHS dB pension. I don't think it's for every role these days.

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BlueTrin2020@reddit

It’s never worth being miserable for most of your day for 40 years. But if you don’t have a better alternative, you could do worse pension wise. Private sector pays more but you’ll have to save the pension yourself …

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MattySingo37@reddit

Pensions are your safety net for old age. Added to your state pension, it will give you a good bit more income. Think about your career in the NHS. The NHS gives a lot of benefits. The wages aren't great but the perks are pretty good. Pension is decent - not as good as it used to be but will still give decent money when you retire. Six months full and six months half pay sick pay after 6 years service. 27 days leave plus 8 bank holidays, rising to 33 days plus 8 bh after ten years. Job security. Big thing is potential for advancement. Nab whatever training you can get and see how far you can get. Known quite a few people start on Band 2, get up to Band 5,6 or 7 in not that many years by doing nurse training by secondment or part time. It's possible to go further with Management Apprenticeships. Even trades aren't too bad, one of our estates blokes is being put through a plumbing course.

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Master_Block1302@reddit

Alternative take: why aren’t you obsessed with getting a science degree?

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GeneralQuantum@reddit

Because they're worthless? Science degree holder here. No science jobs in UK. Lots of min wage "technologist" roles. Sciences all moved to Ireland.

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TeamBRs@reddit

What is your degree and where did you get it?

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GeneralQuantum@reddit

Biochemistry. A University.

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pajamakitten@reddit

That'll be why. Biological science jobs are thin on the ground. Being an NHS biomedical scientist is probably the only reliable job out there.

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GeneralQuantum@reddit

I do full scale chemistry and have experience in engineering also. It isn't all about the degree. I have close to 20 years in many STEM fields. Science in UK is dead. Has been for quite some time, especially England.

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Master_Block1302@reddit

No science jobs *for you*.

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GeneralQuantum@reddit

I am in a Science job. Though it is going soon. And as someone hunting for another science job, there are barely a few dozen across the entire country.

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Master_Block1302@reddit

Speaking as a scientist: how might we design an experiment to test whether your assertion that ‘science degrees are worthless’ and ‘there are no science jobs in the UK’ is a total loss of fucking bollocks or not?

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eletheelephant@reddit

Yeah but they generally make you way more employable for loads of other jobs. Science degrees are really valuable to tech / software companies - I have one and I've worked in software

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

Because I work full time, have a mortgage and the NHS aren't interested.

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Master_Block1302@reddit

The nominative determinism is strong in this one.

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

It's just hard to get a science degree in my situation. There's no need for rudeness.

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TheGrayOnes@reddit

Yeah Ive a bachelors of chemistry and was unable to get a job in my degree field, infuriating whilst I was still job hunting

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Master_Block1302@reddit

I experienced that frustration too, when I graduated. It’s pretty standard, TBH. My friend who graduated in psychology took a punt and started out selling telephone systems. Her house nowadays is like something outta Falcon Crest. I went on all sort of weird dead ends post BSc. Ended up in tech in the City, which can be an *extremely* dolce vita. Don’t limit yourself. Push hard at all times and something cool will turn up.

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Aromatic-Cupcake-405@reddit

I was in for 14 years plus change and it’s something that was in the back of my mind when I was considering quitting. I held off for a good number of years primarily for that reason. Plus the Nandos discount obviously. However I decided last year it wasn’t worth it and waved it goodbye … now I did hear someone mention that you can rejoin within 5 years or something like that so potentially it’s something you can look into. I will say though by that point and when people were suggesting sabbaticals I was way past that point. Also if you were to rejoin it doesn’t mean you have to do so as a lab assistant. It’s one of the biggest employers in the country, there is plenty out there.

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Trailer_Of_Failure@reddit

Because there's no pension close to it when you're a lower band. Coast, that's what I plan on doing for the next 30 years

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manhattan4@reddit

NHS pension is better than my private pension, but your parents / grandparents are probably remembering the old style final salary pensions which were even better. I don't know anyone under 40 working for the NHS who is on one of those. There's a load of salary checkers online where you can plug in all your current and prospective remuneration options to work out exactly how to weight it all up. There's no magic pension, just total remuneration (salary, bonus, pension etc) and how you choose to invest in a pension.

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neanderbeast@reddit

I remember the stories I used to hear about upper management getting promoted for no reason just before they retired to get a betyrt final salary pension...

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Brrrofski@reddit

I used to work for a local council. One of the Chief Officers, who was on about 90k got promoted to interim Chief Executive when the other one left. By the Chief exec who was on his way out. He was there for 3 months and retired. With a final salary pension. On his new salary of 180k.

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tonification@reddit

Jackpot!

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manhattan4@reddit

Not NHS, but this way definitely the way in the corporate world in my parents generation and their final salary pensions.

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neanderbeast@reddit

It was still common around 14 years ago when I joined the NHS, the pension scheme changed in 2014 though and we got put on worse schemes. They keep raising the contributions though, 9.8% of my wage goes to pension...

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Repeat_after_me__@reddit

And extra years before you get it. Basically each time the tories are voted in the pension gets worse.

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

Seems like NHS pensions are far worse than what they used to be.

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neanderbeast@reddit

They are but still better than most other pensions.

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150letsgo@reddit

Depends. If you die at 100 DB schemes are great. Die at 75 and they are a terrible waste of money.

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neanderbeast@reddit

Yeah I've known quite a few colleagues who have died even before they were able to claim, but there are risks with everything. Sadly nothing is guaranteed.

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150letsgo@reddit

Yeah it is sad. Talented, responsible people who have hundreds of thousands of pounds taken and given to total strangers at the expense of their own family. I'd rather not have that dice roll. Would much rather ride the markets. More upside and less downside imo.

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Ok-Train5382@reddit

The only thing that’s better is probably the civil service pension

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TheEdge91@reddit

The Railway Pension Scheme is up there, proper final salary pension scheme in the old fashioned way.

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Spursdy@reddit

It has got very complicated. Most new starters.wont be on the scheme that long-termers are.

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Voeld123@reddit

Except it's not... It's a hybrid average/final because depending on the job through your career it will divide it up into a whole series of final salary pots. If your job is good and you don't move you have a final salary pension. If you have to move grades it can be recalculated as if you left behind a final salary scheme every 5 years. And the final salary that counts for that 5 year chunk is the one when you changed jobs

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Repeat_after_me__@reddit

And the wages too…

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RoyalCroydon@reddit

I’d happily give up my CS Pension and take up a better paying railway job!

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Littleloula@reddit

Local government pension scheme too. Plus probably police, military

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150letsgo@reddit

Lgps is good, you can actually transfer out of it into a SIPP.

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RoyalCroydon@reddit

Armed Forces Pension Scheme too. But I can appreciate that there’s a bit more of a barrier to entry than Civil Service/Railways etc.

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Aetheriao@reddit

At 24k a year you’d need to contribute 20-24% your income to match the nhs pension at 24k over 40 years at 6.1%. Realistically someone on 24k needs 30k job to end up close to breaking even on the loss of the pension (assuming the employer doesn’t contribution match above the standard 3%)

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chainedtomydesk@reddit

The NHS pension changes in 2015 now mean it’s tracked to the state pension age, so that means not being eligible to draw a full NHS pension until 68… with all the noises about the state pension age rising to 71, it will be even longer. No doubt it’ll rise even further by then. If you want to take it 5 years early as an example, it reduces in % increments each year you take it early, so at 66 you would only be eligible for 76% of your NHS pension. So yeah, poor wages, overworked and not such a great pension after all. My wife is royally pissed off and considering a career change.

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FewEstablishment2696@reddit

What actually is the NHS pension nowadays (I know it used to be 1/40th of your final salary per year of service)? It would be interesting to compare a DC pension for someone on £30k making 10% contributions to someone on minimum wage in an NHS scheme.

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Enough-Ad3818@reddit

Nobody is any more. They were all transferred in about 2011 or so, and then again relatively recently. It's changed twice since the golden pension days, so final salary doesn't exist any more. The existing one now looks at an average salary and works out pension provision based on the average, rather than your salary at retirement.

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Vivaelpueblo@reddit

Everywhere has done this. I was civil service and everyone not a civil servant thinks the pension scheme is still like it was in the 1960's. It's not and for current new entrants isn't great even in comparison with private sector. New entrants even got less annual leave (25 days instead of the 31.5 I was on) which is crazy when you have two people doing exactly the same job but because I started doing it a year or two earlier I got 6.5 days more leave and a better pension. Ditto the USS scheme in higher education, piss poor now compared to how it used to be (career average not final salary and only defined benefit up to a certain threshold after that it's defined contribution, AVCs also defined contribution).

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onetimeuselong@reddit

Basically this. The NHS pension is ‘superannuation’ each year you work pot is established as 1/nth of that years salary. After n-years you retire with a pension that is an average of all the years used in the calculation. I think n= 31 years or 35 years but I’m really not sure since I only did one year in NHS. Is it better than a DC pension… depends on the DC scheme and salary difference. 1/35th as superannuation on a lower salary after 35 years of being 5K to 20K a year lower than private sector just isn’t beneficial. Especially given most pension schemes in my line of work are ‘double match’ contributions.

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Aetheriao@reddit

It’s 100% better at close to minimum wage Vs 5% employee 3% employer minimums in other minimum wage jobs. Low earners pay 6.1% which is barely above minimum for a DC pension. But they get 1/54th annual salary adjusted for inflation at retirement. So someone on 24k gets about 4.5k in 10 years and 18k or so after 40. Meanwhile they’d have about 5-6k income on a standard DC pension. You’d have to put in over 20% a year to get the same…

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onetimeuselong@reddit

Yeah if you’re below 30K or in a non-professional role I imagine the NHS pension is better.

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manhattan4@reddit

Thanks for clarifying. That average salary approach makes it a bugger to work out the true value, unless you look at the banding increments over a career. I stand corrected, it's not going to be so easy for OP to compare to an employer's % pension.

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Kaliasluke@reddit

Actually, it is pretty easy once you stop thinking too hard about it. You get an annual statement that provides you with the annual value of the increase in transfer value. If you work through the maths, the amount they give is roughly (very roughly) equal the amount you’d need to invest in government bonds to buy an annuity with the income you’re entitled to at the retirement age. The switch from final salary to average earnings, although less generous, actually makes the maths easier as you don’t need to make any assumptions about what the final salary will be. You can argue with that methodology a bit, but it’s pretty reasonable in my view. As such, I think it’s pretty reasonable to just add the annual increase in pension transfer value, minus your contribution, to your salary to get your total remuneration.

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Enough-Ad3818@reddit

It's far more complicated than it needs to be. The cynical part of me thinks that was deliberate...

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Lumpyproletarian@reddit

Surely, once you’re in the NHS you’ve got a better chance of moving to some better through internal advertising of jobs

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qazwsxmo@reddit

This exactly, I feel like I’m the opposite of OP, I started as a lab assistant on band 2. Saw internal opportunities; volunteered to get experience, moved to band 4. 6months later band 5 and now I’ve moved up to band 6. There were literally lots of opportunities if you’re good enough.

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KerryKinkajou@reddit

How exactly do you progress from being an MLA to being a band 5/6 without an accredited Biomedical Science degree and the IBMS portfolio? You can't have stayed in healthcare science or have gone for any registered roles without having the right qualifications which OP has already said they don't have.

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Hungry-Afternoon7987@reddit

He is going to look at himself though. It's very easy to climb in Trusts. A friend went from band 3 to 7 in 4 years etc. I'm constantly having to recruit band 4/5s as they move up (procurement).

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

I've applied for lots of NHS jobs and gotten nowhere

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S1lver888@reddit

You clearly need to find ANYTHING else as this job is making you bitter.

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eletheelephant@reddit

Did you get any feedback on your applications?

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Enough-Ad3818@reddit

Agreed. People in my Trust are always changing roles etc, and sometimes they move to a completely different discipline and start at a lower position to get into the dept they want.

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CobaltCascade@reddit

Dude, it's like the family's on a pension obsession quest. They see it as the golden ticket to stress-free beach life at 65. While I'm over here thinking about the next weekend plans, they're out there talking about 401(k)s and retirement calculators. Can't we just focus on the now and worry about being old later? Pension party poopers, I tell ya.

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d_justin@reddit

While the NHS has the one of the best pensions available, it is tied to state pension age. Why is state pension age relevant? Its because its the age where you get to be able to use your pension benefit and retire. Currently there are some rumours of making the state pension age 71. Would it not be better to upskill yourself and find a better paying job that you might enjoy rather than suffering for the next 40 years to die a miserable death in a care home funded using your NHS pension?

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snaphunter@reddit

>it is tied to state pension age With an elastic band, yes. You can still take the NHS pension early, it just gets reduced to compensate for the facts that a) you'll be receiving it for longer and b) you won't have contributed as much due to working fewer years. Exactly the same can be said about a workplace or private Defined Contribution scheme, pay less into the pot and don't let it grow in the stock market as long, guess what, the pension is smaller!

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PsychologicalOwl5106@reddit

I spent a lot of time working out whether to get an NHS pension or not when I knew I would be leaving it soon (2 year contract which oddly has now been extended to over 6 years) and it is confusing… BUT in summary I think unless you’d be destitute otherwise, you should opt for it. https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/company-pensions/public-sector-pensions-explained/nhs-pension-schemes-explained-aDjEz6F6ki6Z#what-is-the-nhs-pension-scheme When most people talk about how fantastic it is, they’re thinking of the original pension, which stopped almost 20 years ago. But the current one is very good because the NHS contributes a lot towards it and it tracks inflation. Essentially every year you are on it, you will earn 1/54th of your annual salary that year as a yearly pension. So if you’re paid £24k and have 1 year of pension, every year of your retirement you’ll get £444 (which will rise to match inflation), which isn’t bad Much more importantly, the contribution you need to make for this is heavily weighted dependant on your salary. To earn this 1/54th pension each year, someone on £55k a year would need to contribute 12.5% of their salary, but someone on £13k would need to contribute 5.2% of their salary, so it’s actually get more for your money when you’re on a lower salary.

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snaphunter@reddit

>which will rise to match inflation), which isn’t bad Even better, while you're a member (at least under the 2015 current rules), it actually tracks above inflation (CPI + 1.5%). If you leave the scheme then your benefit just gets adjusted by CPI.

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Hunter-Ki11er@reddit

Plenty of other options that mean you can stay in the NHS. my wife started off as a lab assistant, now works in IT, gets paid a whole lot more too

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Plenty_Suspect_3446@reddit

>Why are my family obsessed with pensions? My aunt worked for the NHS and retired at 55. All her friends who didn't are still stuck working in their 60s. It was a big deal for people their age. > Is being miserable for another 40 years really worth the pension? Probably not, but I suppose time will tell.

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riddorculous@reddit

Nurses used to have special class status that allowed them to retire at 55 with no loss of pension. OP won't have that, the NHS pension scheme they are in will be tied to state pension age which sucks as it can increase in the future

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Ok_Adhesiveness3950@reddit

Don't forget about the NHS pension for sure - but obviously compare the whole package Salary Pension Training Prospects Satisfaction

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Normal-Basis9743@reddit

Before leaving, try and get your trust or employer to put you through some college? Might get a promotion or can side step roles within the NHS and still keep the pension?

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No_Camp_7@reddit

I wish my family had any idea of pensions when I was growing up. Never mentioned. Went to work without a private pension, was being sorely short changed and didn’t have the wisdom or teaching from parent as to why. I’m catching up now but both my parents have no private pension which terrifies me. I’ll be paying for mine and theirs. They are both highly educated professionals, just completely dysfunctional.

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despairagony@reddit

Teaching in state gets you a great pension, yet I left because what's the point if my life is a living Hell? I'd rather teach private and not be miserable. Own a home and you'll be fine in your later years.

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Prestigious_Ad7044@reddit

I can vouch as a NHS worker (retired) that it’s a good pension. When I was starting out in the NHS I used to think the world is going to end in nuclear war so why bother. Also when starting out it depressed me thinking I had to work for decades to come. What I did was access any training available and moved on in my career. I stepped out of the NHS for a few years to work elsewhere and then went back to it. Between now and your pension date there is a great enjoyable life out there . That’s what you’re working for as well. Take it from me as a once party animal , life goes by quickly . Enjoy it as you go but work pays for that lifestyle.

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Hatertraito@reddit

There will be no pensions in 20yrs mate. Not sure if you've been reading the news but the world is coming to an end

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LDNLibero@reddit

If you want something different but want to keep the NHS pension, I recommend looking at NHS Commissioning Units (CSUs). They're huge and provide a number of services to struggling NHS Trusts and ICBs which can vary from IT, Clinical, Consulting etc so really helpful for finding a next step in your career but staying in the NHS. I work at NECS (North of England Commissioning Support) and they're very supportive about funding staff doing a degree whilst working. The only issue is currently with NHSE budget cuts, recruitment is low as we're having to downsize but we'll definitely be hiring post-April.

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Frank65ukgay@reddit

Been there and done that...growing up i was always told to work towards a pension and to always save. Of course i didnt take much notice initially, do we ever listen to old people? lol Anyway im now a pensioner, and glad that i did actually eventually take their advice, because it means im not solely retirement on the state pension. However, as to your question..yes planning for your old age cant be started too soon, but is no reason to stay in a job that you hate. Find something that gives you satisfaction, but at the same time always plan for the future; and the way things are going these days you may well be working into your 70's!

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pajamakitten@reddit

Current biomedical scientist and ex-lab assistant here. Ignoring pensions, you should leave if you cannot or will not earn a biomedical science degree. 40 years on minimum wage in a job you hate is not worth an OK pension in the end. You are better off earning more elsewhere and getting a good private pension together instead. Being a lab assistant is an underappreciated role but it also does not pay the bills.

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qazwsxmo@reddit

95% of our lab assistants are students with degrees hoping to move up

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Mannyonthemapm6@reddit

No you need to leave for your own sanity and mental health, you lose yourself working a job that isn’t for you

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marciorafaelop@reddit

I mean, the NHS is a quite good place for professional development / job offer. Don’t have to quit completely. Sure the pay is shit … but there are other big advantages

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Regular-Charge1107@reddit

I can sympathise. Disclosure: I'm lucky (and old) enough to have a large chunk of my NHS pension in the oldest 1995 scheme so my circumstances are different to yours. However, I worked as an MLA for 25 years at band 2 & 3 and while the people I worked with were lovely, the job and the managers were not. I finally got a job as a trainee NHS clinical coder at band 3 and after training and progressing I am now at the top of Band 5. The job allows me to work from home most of the time and I am now happier than I have ever been. As my NHS pension has a final salary component, this has made a huge difference to my retirement plans. All I can say is if you want to stay within the NHS then try and move into another position within the organisation. I'm sure you have transferable skills - the ability to work to tight deadlines and to work under pressure which other teams will appreciate. Good luck and I hope you consider this before you make a decision.

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MonsieurGump@reddit

50 year old me is very pleased indeed that 18 year old me joined a pension scheme. 50 year old me is equally pleased that 30 year old me jacked it all in and pissed about in France for a decade. Life is all about balancing what you want to do with what you need to do.

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Alber_uk@reddit

Obviously NHS pensions is the best available pension in the country. So if you work for the nhs then better to join it. Regarding your job unfortunately currently situation in the NHS is the worst since covid most of employees are on on/off striking . It depends on your age you mat consider doing PA for 3 years and join as PA

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

Seems like doctors and nurses are better off and they've put my wages down

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Mean-Marionberry8560@reddit

How out of touch do you have to be. Nurses use food banks. Doctors sleep in their cars. The NHS treats ALL of its staff like shit.

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

The nurses maybe but doctors? Consultants earn 125k a year.

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Voeld123@reddit

https://starecat.com/rich-man-to-worker-careful-mate-that-foreigner-wants-your-cookie/ Go look at that cartoon and have a think about how it might apply to your situation. One way of thinking is that the doctors and nurses are also working class, just a little more fortunate than you right now. It's someone else that seems to have all the money and they don't get it as wages.

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Aetheriao@reddit

Doctors work minimum 48 hours a week for starts… and consultants start on 93k normally 35+ after over 15 years of training and schooling and 6 figures in debt.. Most of my friends in their early 30s in London are not consultants and flat share to pay the bills. Hardly a life of Riley for 10+ years of training and education while losing hundreds a month in student loan debt.

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Mean-Marionberry8560@reddit

Less than half of doctors are consultants. And a consultant definitely does not start on 125k. It’s not a race to the bottom, but you brought up the pay of doctors and nurses when they have no relevance to you. Ultimately - if you hate your job leave. Go to the private sector and outearn us all, and invest some of that extra money into a decent pension. Your pension is no use to you if you’ve been miserable for 40 years and have nothing to spend it on that brings you joy.

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pajamakitten@reddit

Some nurses use food banks and very few doctors sleep in cars. I work in the NHS and most of us are surviving well enough. We are not paid what we are worth, however it is not as dire as you make it out.

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CabbageDan@reddit

Arguably the civil service one is a bit better. But yes, it’s very good.

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Grotbagsthewonderful@reddit

>stay in the NHS you get a great pension NHS and Police pension used to be great until they were both gutted, so no it's not worth it. If you have another 40 years of work, take out a SIPP if you haven't already and do whatever you want.

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MrNippyNippy@reddit

Depends if you want to eat when you retire. As you get older you realise how important pensions are, especially with the rumours of the state pension going up again to 71 not that it’s enough to live on really either. I have no idea what the nhs pension or what age you are but I wish I’d been able to pay more and earlier. It’s a toss up between living now and later - it’s difficult to work out as you might step in front of a bus tomorrow. You can get a good idea of what you’d need to pay in here: https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/pensions-and-retirement/pensions-basics/use-our-pension-calculator

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Comfortable_Fail993@reddit (OP)

Well if I get stuck on minimum wage will my pension be that great anyway? Will I be able to retire at all? I feel like living now is more important.

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MrNippyNippy@reddit

So I’m informed the NHS is a different pension to what I’m familiar with so not sure how working minimum wage on that would work out but yes you’re right. On a standard private pension it’s all about money not percentages - 10% of £100 is obviously less than 5% of £1000 etc. The more you earn the more you can generally afford to pay in. Plus if you’re on minimum wage you probably can’t afford to buy a house which means you lose out on equity lost in rent and a higher potential overhead when you retire as you won’t have a house to live it but have to continue paying rent. The only point I would make for pensions is the sooner you start paying the better. I was only able to start at 25 and I’m now paying for it especially as I’m desperate to retire early too.

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Voeld123@reddit

The main difference on your 10% of £100 analogy is that the minimum private job pension contribution under opt in is 5% of your own money and 3% of the companies money. The NHS pension counts the money coming out to you not the money going in. But the total contribution equivalent if you were 20 years might be 30% of salary with more than half paid by the employer. When you're 66, the equivalent contribution for that year might be 2000% because for 1 years contributions you will be paid something for the rest of your life...

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Voeld123@reddit

If you're on minimum wage then your focus should be on how to increase your salary. If you have a pathway to doubling your salary outside the NHS but have no way of increasing your salary inside the NHS (as an example of the most extreme position) then there is only one option that make sense... The challenge is coming up with that plan on how to do it, and taking any and all chances that come your way.

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warriorscot@reddit

Well you can afford to live now, and pensions usually get much better inflation adjustment so you'll likely be as well if not better off. Also if you spend some time getting qualifications and potentially get NHS to fund them then you could earn a lot more. What your family is saying is that short of any chance of better work a minimum wage job with a fantastic pension is a lot better than just a minimum wage job with basic auto enrollment. In real terms that's "total package" so when judging an alternative job that's the bar and for public sector that means a 20 to 30% difference is needed to leave.

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purplepoaceae@reddit

NHS offers a matched 10% contribution

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CabbageDan@reddit

Practically it doesn’t really work that way as what the NHS puts in is irrelevant. You aren’t building a pot of money - you are building up 1/54th of that years income that you will then get paid every year after retirement (or it could be 1/56th, I can’t remember exactly)

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purplepoaceae@reddit

Well that depends if your pension is defined benefit or defined contribution doesn't it?

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CabbageDan@reddit

I don’t quite understand your point. All NHS pensions are direct benefit.

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purplepoaceae@reddit

That's my bad, I didn't know the details of how the NHS pension is run, I thought you were giving a general explanation of how pensions work

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Skylon77@reddit

It 1/54, with an annual adjustment of inflation plus 1.5%, which ain't bad at all.

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MrNippyNippy@reddit

Ok so that’s good but not unachievable elsewhere from my experience - 10% employer from minimum 5% employee is my current employers offering fwiw although I contribute 20% as I’m older and woefully short on early contributions and desperate to retire early. The key I suspect for OP IF pensions are important is really income. It’s all well and good having a 20% contribution but 20% of minimum wage isn’t the best. Career progression in the NHS seems to be a funny thing and could be quite difficult. Probably not enough info to really help the OP and it’s a really complex topic. For example a friend has just taken a pay cut to work for DWP because their contributions are massively higher than their existing employer at almost 30% employer contributions. https://www.civil-service-careers.gov.uk/dwp-our-benefits/

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3a5ty@reddit

NHS is a defined benefit scheme. Completely different to defined contribution and the contributions from both you and your employer mean nothing to the actual pay out in retirement.

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MrNippyNippy@reddit

Ah ok - I’m familiar with Teachers final salary schemes, I wasn’t aware NHS had something similar. Totally different animal then.

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Jephcote@reddit

Pention? You mean the old people lottery? Not worth the thought if working wages don't even pay enough to own a few brick walls to live in.

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swiftfatso@reddit

Frankly? Don't bet on something you might or not harvest in such a long time. The NHS is mostly a failing bargain chip for politicians. No structural reform on the horizon. No guarantees that it will survive 40 years. Look for a job that makes you at least not miserable.

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fz1985@reddit

Degree + private sector job then

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sweetpumpkinx@reddit

You don’t want to be miserable for the next 40 years my friend. NHS pensions might be the best pension (I don’t know the fact but as everyone said). I work for a private company that work under the gov, pension is great, might not be as good as NHS but work life balance is amazing. You don’t want to stay in something in the hope for returning pension. Life is too short to be miserable at work.

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glassandshite@reddit

It just sounds like outdated crap to be honest. If you can find something better paid which motivates you of course you will be better off in the long run. That generation have different expectations when it comes to quality of life and they refuse to see that subsequent generations face a different reality. That's why we still get all these defunct slogans bleated at us like good pension, starter home, graduate salary etc. Younger generations are facing the possibility that they will probably have to pay for healthcare when they reach old age, there will probably be no state pension, they will probably have to work into their late 70s, the world will likely be a very destabilized and expensive place if current trends continue. It's not really as if we can trust a minimum wage workplace pension alone to deal with any of that.

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Magnetmonkey39@reddit

You aren’t limited to the role you are doing, ask to be up skilled, take the initiative and look for another role working the NHS.

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Demoneyes1945@reddit

Is the pension great though? I work in an area that I pay the mandatory amount into the pension and the employer tops it up to 20%. I’m not overly fussed on the job either, but pay wise, it allows me to enjoy a few unnecessaries. I raise that because there are other areas you could work in with the same or better pensions which you may enjoy more. What qualifications do you have/what’s your passion?

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rEduardoDaVinci@reddit

Taking job advice off your family is pretty bad to start with. I would say that pensions should hardly be a deciding factor in the job you do to be honest.

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Masterofsnacking@reddit

I used to work for the NHS. Same as you, I was thinking of the pension as part of my long term plan. But, working for the NHS was hard and took a toll on my physical and mental health to the point of a breakdown. That's the time I realised, it's not worth it if I die young because I wouldn't even be able to use that pension. So, I left. Moved to private, bigger salary, they had a good pension as well and I just added as much as I can from that bigger salary.

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hugamush@reddit

My mum worked for the NHS for 20 years, opted out of her pension early on because my dad said he would always look after her and why pay x amount every month for something you won’t need. Long story short they divorced and my mum was left with no security blanket. Destroyed her life. She was working with no end in sight, watching people she trained years ago preparing for retirement. It was absolutely miserable for her and heartbreaking to see. She used to tell me “I’ll be working until the day I die”. She died very suddenly in September 2022. If she had stayed in the pension scheme, she would have been eligible for a “death in service”payout which essentially would have given my brother and myself around £15,000 each. But guess what? No pension. Broke my heart not for me, but I know that my mum would have kicked herself so much knowing that my brother and I lost out on that. It felt like the final “fuck you” from the wrong decision that she made all those years ago. From my experience, please don’t opt out of your pension.

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Guilty-Employer7811@reddit

Don't waste your life away doing something you hate. I left a very secure, well paid, (and mindbendingly depressing job) in the public defence sector, to begin breeding and selling Fancy Pet Rats. Life is far too short my friend.

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tommycahil1995@reddit

The comments here are ridiculous. Look if you hate your job don't stay because you'll get a good pension. My aunt died from cancer and never retired, my grandad died two years after he retired from a stroke. Lots of people hardly even get to enjoy retirement - there are zero guarantees about how long you'll live. what seems more likely is you'll be miserable if you stay in a job for decades just to get a good pension. No suffering most of your life to have a decent pension isn't worth it.

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ahoneybadger3@reddit

The NHS pension isn't as great as it used to be. Still good but not worth staying in a Jon you hate good. I left the NHS after 5 years of working there straight out of school. Got the same stick and I hated the work. You're on minimum wage anyway, get out there and explore different jobs, see where you want to spend your time at.

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Dominionix@reddit

The pension age is what currently? 66? I'm 37 and I've treated this body like a fucking amusement park for 15 plus years from the age of 17 onwards. Wanna know my retirement plan? It's to die. By the time a pension would be a concern to me the retirement age will be at least in the early-to-mid 70s, it's literally irrelevant to me. I pay in the maximum that my employer will match in contributions because I'm not struggling for liquid cash and it's the best thing I can do with it financially, especially given I'm in the high tax bands, but honestly it's not what I'm depending on to see me through later life.

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olibolicoli@reddit

I’m a Biomedical Scientist and I hear you. The shifts are long and tiring and the pay is disproportionate to the effort we put in. And that’s just as a BMS, the MLAs have it a lot lot worse - tedious jobs, sometimes disrespect by more senior staff (unfortunately) and overall monotony added on top of killer shift schedules. However, I do really enjoy my job. I have a passion for science and applying my knowledge in my field to help people - without that, I wouldn’t be sticking the job out. It sounds like you’re pretty burnt out by the NHS experience so I can only recommend that you do your research on jobs that are out there in the private sector. Yes you might be worse off with a private pension but if you hate the work that much, I don’t see why you’re still sticking it out. After 6 years your management should be encouraging and supporting you into being at least a Band 4 and actively helping you find access into a part time BMS course if funding is available. If they aren’t doing this, bring it up with management in your next appraisal and then speak to your union rep. Other options are to look into secondments within the NHS. This could be in another laboratory, lab-adjacent (think quality team, Point of Care team, etc) or in a whole other department. An MLA on my team just got back from a year secondment as a ward manager. Others have worked in medical records. Looking into other roles in the NHS while having a back up knowing that your MLA job is secure might help you stop the burn out and see whether there’s an NHS role that isn’t shift based that might suit you more while retaining the NHS pension (if that’s something you’re even really bothered about). Don’t suffer until retirement in a job you hate but also don’t rush into an equally poorly paid role without the (few) perks the NHS offers such as pension, annual leave, etc. Wishing you all the best.

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MoxTheOxe@reddit

I have a friend in the exact same scenario down to the wire, to the point where if you hadn't mentioned grandparents I'd be convinced you were him. And given you referenced 40 working years left I reckon you're close to our age. It isn't worth it. I have also worked for the NHS in the past and I couldn't ignore the backstabbing and politicking that occurred daily. The difference between my friend and me, and in this case you and I, is that my family told me under no circumstances was staying worth it.

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Mr_White_Fam@reddit

The pension is paid at a % of what you earn. But working awful shifts for the minimum wage is not going to help your life expectancy or leave much to enjoy when you get there. Do what's best for you, their opinions on the pension can get in the bin.

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Oldfart_karateka@reddit

All of the above comments are valid re the pension, etc., so I won't repeat them, but the family are saying 'Stay in the NHS', not 'Stay in your current job' - the NHS is a huge employer, look at other roles, maybe ones that come with training? You might find something you enjoy more, and that pays more.

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CandleAffectionate25@reddit

I emphasise. I too work for the nhs and my dad goes on about pension. I pay it each month, but my gripe is, there’s actually NO guarantee that we’ll definately get it?

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PumpkinJambo@reddit

You will, I work for a public sector pension fund - not NHS - and defined benefit pensions are guaranteed by law.

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pysgod-wibbly_wobbly@reddit

I think the person is suggesting that still being alive by then is not a guarantee

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pysgod-wibbly_wobbly@reddit

Sell today's happiness for possible money in a future that's not guaranteed. You may not even live long enough to retire.. I was in this situation. I let my in-laws pressure me into staying in the NHS for years on the same reason. I was miserable, I left for another job and I'm happy. I regret the years of misery I endured. That is time I won't get back I hate that I spent so many years unhappy Also NHS pension isn't what it useto be. You are not even gonna get the pension they are picturing. Get out find something that makes you happy.

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Extra_Position1696@reddit

Start an onlyfans/TikTok. The institutions of tomorrow! (If there is one)

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ClevelandWomble@reddit

The issue is whether you move away from what you have or towards something you want. Don't just quit your job. If you find a job that is definitely more rewarding emotionally, or pays better then consider it. But don't just sit behind a till for the same money because you were bored as a lab rat. You'll regret it when you finally retire. If you change jobs in the NHS, you'll keep your pension and have the chance to move upwards. Make a career for yourself rather than bouncing from job to job until you end up retired and counting every penny. Consider this. If jobs were fun, they would be hobbies. If you can make money doing something you love, then you are one of the lucky ones. Most of us just cherish evenings and weekends

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Worried-Ad-6593@reddit

If you’re in the NHS already apply for a role in admin (bookings would be my recommendation) get yourself on some of the free leadership courses and start working up the bands. You have the time and the opportunity to make a good career for yourself here, there are just about enough good people left in the NHS that if you are seen trying to make things better for patients and working on yourself to do that better you can progress.

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Witty_Masterpiece463@reddit

Look for an apprenticeship in the same trust. If you're accepted they usually keep you on the same pay instead of putting you on apprenticeship level pay.

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CanineMagick@reddit

I think it’s worth using a pension calculator online to see what a “bare minimum” pension looks like when you retire. It’s fucking bleak and I think a lot of people my age are going to fall into poverty or close to it once they retire. Unlike current pensioners, we are unlikely to get a state pension so your private pension is your lot. But yeah, of course it’s not worth being miserable for 40 years so you can live on minimum wage for 10-15. However, if you could find another NHS job (porter jobs seem cool) go for it.

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tingod1999@reddit

I'm probably repeating others, but with hopefully a different perspective. The NHS is very pro-active with regards to keeping and enhancing staff. Once you are on the pay-roll, it's hard for them to let you go. I really recommend you talk to your line manager about why you are unhappy, and then go from there. Maybe they can offer you an alternative role, or extra training that will make it possible for you to step up a grade or 2. It's a fate that only you can decide, but I've worked in the private sector and have been unlucky enough to experience several redundancies. I've now been in the NHS for 15 years or more and have no fear of a repetition of that great pain.

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Lettuce-Pray2023@reddit

The NHS pension is generous owing to the size of the employer contribution - essentially deferring some your wages until retirement, but also getting free money from your employer again at retirement. However. Being in a job you hate - 40 years is like an unhappy marriage and staying just because it’s financially secure. I’d also add that while lab techs do important stuff - how much of that job is future proof with tech? Whatever you decide to do - continue to contribute to whatever pension your employer at the time offers. You can also make decisions about if you want to open a SIPP or ISA to save up for retirement. I’m in the NHS pension but dropped to 23 hours a week - I do bank and agency but I accept my pension would take a hit. Some of that is offset by my use of a SIPP. I value the flexibility

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SusieC0161@reddit

The NHS pension used to be great, now it’s not particularly. I believe you now have to work until state pension age to draw it. I (semi) retired at 55 because of my NHS pension, but I’d paid in for about 30 years. If you move to another public sector employer (police, council, probably schools - not sure), you can transfer it over anyway. When you’re in your 50s you’ll probably be looking into your pension, so, if you can set a private one up now which you can draw in your mid 50s. You might be paying a small amount in but you can increase this as you’re able. You may not be able to draw your workplace pension until you’re at state pension age and believe me, you’ll be ready for it by then.

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GeneralQuantum@reddit

As a Science degree holder let me tell you, I would also earn min wage at NHS lab testing facilities.

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Andi_GA@reddit

civil service pension is pish those days as certainly but lauded by outsiders, yeah is it better than the private equivalent, but on low grades its still as useless..

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thepioneeringlemming@reddit

There used to be an unwritten deal with public sector pensions where the salary maybe wasn't as great as the private sector but the benefits you got in retirement were really good. That is not the case any more however.

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Normal-Individual201@reddit

Civil service pension is pish these days as well but lauded by outsiders, yes is it better than the private equivalent, yes on low grades its still as useless. There isn't really any worth to having a pension in certain circumstances, low income, rented accommodation. When you get old all your pals will be laughing it up on housing benefit and pension credit will you struggle to pay rent on your shitey pension.

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CaptainTrip@reddit

It depends how old you are, how long you've worked there, and what your pension is valued at. You sound like you might not fully understand why the NHS pension is good and why you'd want access to it, so before you make any decisions you should make sure you understand the specifics of the finances. Assuming you're young, don't throw away your life in anticipation of your retirement. A year in your 30s is much more valuable than a year in your 70s.

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Worried-Courage2322@reddit

Depends on what you're going to do with the rest of your life. If you're going to do nothing with it, an NHS pension (though not as good as they once were) is going to be better than anything else available.

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long_legged_twat@reddit

I'm about to take early retirement in a few months at 55 & am bloody glad I decided to pay into a pension all those years ago. You might be young now but you'll be getting old before you know it.... Believe me, it goes really fast.

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ChaoticCondition@reddit

Life is too short. Find another job / Career. Worry about pension when you have a happy career. One life, why spend it doing a job you hate for shite money? You got a job as a lab tech, you can land another job. Do some courses, ask around, go to career fairs. Absolutely worry about a pension, but my wife worked for a council on 14k a year. Went to Uni, and is now employed by the same council on over double that income. So her pension contributions are much greater, and she will be far better off when she retires despite the gap in her work history.

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Careful-Swimmer-2658@reddit

No job is worth being miserable for. My only advice is don't leave until you've found something else.

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_whopper_@reddit

It's certainly not worth being unhappy for 40 years for a pension. Many people don't even get to pension age. Yes, the NHS pension is good. If your goal is the best possible pension then it might be worth looking for other NHS jobs. But most public sector employers also have decent pension schemes so you don't need to stick to the NHS. Even in the private sector you can find good rates. Nationwide gives you up to 16% and Lloyds Bank will give you 15% if you contribute as little as 6%. Royal Mail is over 15% too.

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Informal_Marzipan_90@reddit

If you are on minimum wage then the pension won’t be that good, even in the public sector.

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eletheelephant@reddit

What kind of job would you want to move to? Its possible you can do that sort of work within the NHS or civil service and still have a great pension and get paid more.

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OldGuto@reddit

In another 40 years I suspect there probably won't be a state pension. Auto-enrolment for pensions started a bit over a decade ago. So my gut feeling is that anyone younger than about 30 shouldn't be expecting a state pension. They'll probably say something like they're merging state pension with your private/work pension and beyond perhaps a top-up to ensuring a minimum retirement income it'll be gone.

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