Hamas started a war and hides behind its civilians. They left Gaza in 2005 and Hamas turned it into a terror hub. All they had to do was not attack Israel. But that’s their only goal, even at the expense of their own people. They wanted a war and got one.
Limiting the amount of housing that can be owned by rental corporations would do far more than foreign home buyers bans. Yes foreign buyers are part of the problem, but if we only block them then BlackRock will just buy it all up instead.
It's a combination of both. I work in immigration here. It's a fucking shit show. The next couple of years are going to be interesting....I've sat in interesting presentations; Healthcare, housing, childcare, and everything else is going to get substantially worse in the next 3 years.
Been that way for a few years. I remember reading that they and Indians were the two largest groups about 5--6 years ago. Lots of the Indians apparently came over on work visas and just overstayed their visas.
Yes. Horses make traveling great distances much easier. The Great Wall isn’t like Ba sing Se. it’s more like hadrians wall which was meant to deter northern incursions.
Canada has problems with the cost of living, but we do not have the extreme polarization that the States have. We also generally have smarter people. Don't get me wrong, we have our share of uneducated morons, but I think the USA still wins when it comes to that metric.
If you've got a decent job and already own property, Canada is actually pretty decent in comparison still. We're working on our own collapse, but I wager the USA falls first.
This is a willfully ignorant take:
If you think political polarization isn’t already alive & well in Canada, you haven’t stepped on practically any job site around the country lately.
A not insignificant portion of the population believes that the democratically elected leader is an illegitimate dictator that has ransacked the country.
They don’t blame the current squeeze Canada is seeing on the previous Conservative administration going all in on Alberta Tarsands, ofc not - it would actually require logic to make that connection, the absence of which will motivate them to put up their own populist demagogue in contrast to their southern counterparts as soon as they are able next election.
I wonder how they’ll react & find a way to blame Trudeau when the country begins to starve this winter due to the very obvious lack of snow disrupting the growing season..?
I didn't say we don't have polarization. I said it's less so than in the States. I live in a rural area and everyone here really does hate Trudeau, including myself, but outside of tiny groups which make the news, nobody thinks he is some dictator. If you see some nutjobs on the news, don't let that fool you into thinking that represents even a fraction of those who hate him. Everyday folks don't immediately go grab their pitchforks when they're unhappy with their government. They vote, and maybe fly a 'Fuck Trudeau' flag if they're really fired up.
you need to be a pretty priviledged canadian to own property - actually, you need to be far more priviledged here to own property than you do in the USA. and if you think we're not extremely polarized your family must share your political beliefs.
I own a rural house on an acre about an hour outside of Toronto. I'm not rich, but I'm frugal enough to make it work. We are more polarized than we used to be, but we're not as bad as the States. Everyone I know is conservative and will be voting for Poilievre, but I'm personally now apathetic towards it all and don't give a shit. Just leave me alone out here to work on my projects and hobbies, and I'll let others get angry and passionate about things they think are important. I'm interesting in the collapse of everything, but I'm trying not to participate.
i would've believed we weren't as polarized before covid but after the truck convoy and losing 1/3rd of my leftist friends to anti-vax conservatism i don't think we're too far off.
and as far as owning property here vs the USA goes: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2023/09/the-u-s-housing-market-vs-the-canadian-housing-market/
The housing market is super strong in Canada, that's for sure. Those of us who already bought will do whatever we must to keep our land. Those who don't already own, will move towards a new culture where renting is the norm. This happened to Germany where 50% of the market now has to rent. I personally am grateful I got on the housing ladder before the spike, because I can't envision a life where I don't have land.
It is going to suck for the youth. I feel sorry for them.
Most people I know my age (mid 30s) now own, but I'd say that the cutoff point seems to be around 30. Anyone less than 30 is likely renting, especially if their single. This is of course my own personal perspective that I see in my hometown, but I'd say it's fairly normal for a typical small city in rural Ontario. Now if you're talking big cities, my own perspective is moot.
Link seems to be dead for me, but I believe you. I can only offer anecdotal from my local perspective, which is interesting, but also not representative of the situation as a whole. Either way, I think it goes without saying that the younger someone is, the less likely they're going to own land going forwards.
Social media, yes, but it would be fine if it weren't overrun by troll farms specifically paid for by hostile governments to polarize the political spectrum as much as possible.
It depends on the region. Out here in the rural areas, I see way less division than in the big cities where cultures tend to clash. Overall, we're still polarizing, but I don't see it anywhere as much as in the States. For the most part, where I am (small farming town) people are not at each other's throats as much as what you see in the media coming from Toronto for example.
Montana here. More of less the same save the random thing here and there if you didn’t watch the news and stayed off social (and Reddit) you wouldn’t think too much is going on.
I think we can all agree that campaign finance reform, reinstate glass-steagle prohibit congress members from trading individual stocks. Congress is a farce and its a solvable problem. Thats what we rally around.
I've crossed that line and am well into apathy already. Fight for your rights, stand your ground, and rally around things that will reduce the most amount of suffering, but I'm already sitting back with a bowl of popcorn to watch it all burn and fall apart.
Nah, I'm fine. I bought a place that is rural enough to live more self-sufficiently, and I'm working on buying even more land further away. If I can ride out the rest of my life away from this hell, I'll be happy. I'm perfectly content living my life peacefully away from all that madness. My quality of life is fine. Other than principles, I have no horse in this game. I'd prefer to just watch from out here.
Awful? How so? My day to day life isn't really full of stress or worry. People are getting worked up over saving the world from collapsing, and I'm just trying to get my socks as white as possible while enjoying the collapse from afar.
I see this comment a lot, as if there is some big overarching grandiose evil plan where 'they' are deliberately trying to cause collapse. I don't believe this. It's always 'they.' There is no 'they.' The system is so overwhelmingly complex that no one group can control it. This is catabolic and a symptom of human overpopulation on a finite planet. Sure, some big corporations and governments might want this, even work towards it, but it's not some 'design.' There are some people who think there is some big conspiracy going on, and I don't agree. There is zero way a conspiracy this big could be maintained for all this time without leaks. Presidents haven't even been able to hide where they put there penis, they're not covering up some designed collapse of society. This is all just natural progression.
I'd argue it's a symptom of the want for endless economic growth and overpopulation.
We could've probably found a pretty comfortable and stable system for 1-2 billion of us living on earth. Avoiding most oil and carbon based energy sources and having way different structures for our cities, towns and nations.
Now we are left with factions of wealthy exploiting workers to gather more wealth. They all bicker, backstab and go to war with each other too. There's no real unity. Just a bunch of greedy assholes taking as much as they can as quick as they can.
I don't think we would have found that " comfortable and stable system " because human nature is just that. If the population plummets, and society stabilizes and recovers over many 100s of years, we will still do the same thing again. I think the only way out of it is to be able to colonize and extract resources from space. Humans innately desire perpetual growth, and space is the only thing that can give us that. The problem is... I think we fucked it up too soon and will never make it out there.
The solution is eradication of the disease that is humanity. Wipe us the fuck out, everything else falls into place. We are the scourge, and technology only brings us ever further outbof balance with the natural world.
Well I don't believe in that either. We're the most intelligent and dominant species on Earth. I think collapse is coming for us, but I don't think extinction is unless the planet goes into some "hot house earth" scenario which seems extremely unlikely. You could kill us all except for 100,000 survivors and we'd still be fine. Even with a total collapse of all civilizations, humanity isn't going anywhere. If some event is big enough to take us all out, it's probably taking out most other complex life forms with it.
The current rate of extinction is between 100 and 1,000 times higher than the pre-human background rate of extinction, which is jaw-dropping. We are definitely going through a sixth mass extinction. If you think we are somehow untouchable, that we are not interdependent upon species big and small, complex and simple, you're deluding yourself.
Our belief that we are the dominant species, not a species in need of homeostasis and harmonious coexistence is the root of the problems the entire planet is facing.
I also think we're heading into a mass extinction event, but it's still unlikely to take us out. We are incredibly adaptable and numerous. Our current historic understanding shows we have been cut back to ~70,000 before and still recovered. Whether you like it or not, we are the dominant species, as we have the capability to completely change the planet. We are already do so. We do have to live "homeostasis and harmonious" with the planet, but that's our (collectively) choice to make. That decision directly impacts life on this planet, which just shows we are indeed the dominant species.
Oh, do you think "we're heading into" a mass extinction event? Fascinating that you have alternative data to the widely published and agreed upon peer reviewed data showing this mass extinction event happening now.
Eh, maybe not. With education and lower child deaths a lot of women in stable countries have had significantly less children. Even below replacement levels.
We just got there after still having the "have as many kids as possible to help family out and see which live to adulthood" mindset.
Maybe. I just think that when you put person against person, and country against country, there is always a net benefit for having the 'larger tribe.' Who knows, it's all speculation. All I know is that we haven't really changed in at least 100,000 years, probably more. Our cognitive abilities and instincts are the same. After the dust settles and the world left in ruin, it won't be long before two survivors are beating each other to deaths with sticks. At the end of the day, we're primates with technology (and language) that allows for the accumulation of knowledge, thoughts, and ideas. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Take away that height advantage, and we're back in the dirt flinging shit at each other.
My argument was just that overpopulation growth isn't the norm overall.
We had very slow growth before the 1700s.
And with stablish conditions it does look like we mostly prefer smaller families.
I do believe that growth is correlated to energy. If energy (resources) become scarce in the future, we will see smaller growth rates. However, when the population crashes, competition for energy goes down, and once again the growth rates trend upwards. It's akin to a population of deer spiking and failing as they continuously overshoot, die off, and then rebound, just to repeat the same thing again.
Humans love energy, and even our poorest nations have enough of it to produce way more offspring than needed. Like the deer, I believe we will eventually reverse our numbers, collapse, stabilize, then trend upwards again. Assuming climate change or war doesn't interrupt that cycle, which is likely will. Anyways, it's all just a fun thought experiment at this point and nobody knows.
In a world of CIA’s, KGB’s & Mossad’s, this just doesn’t hold true, sorry.
It’s curious: on the one hand, you say you just wanna be left alone to a quiet life spent at your home & land just outside TO, & yet here you also are, trying to wax grandiose about the way the world “really works” with some degree of pessimistic authority.
It’s an interesting contrast, especially considering you are mistaken.
Humans are simply a virus that are infecting the planet. That is my simplistic theory. It makes sense of a lot of the things in this world versus these crazy mental gymnastic theories that people have come up with.
Well one example from the last week is the DM I got for my next door neighbor that was a 5-minute video trying to convince the viewer that the NFL has conspired with Taylor Swift to give her a platform at the Super Bowl. Reason being she is a satanic witch that is now trying to influence children away from morality.
No, it was not sent as satire. How do I know? 2 months ago his response to finding out that I took my daughter to the era's tour movie for her birthday was; " dude, she's part of the Illuminati."
There's a lot of crazy out there in this world. I think if we didn't have as many humans on this planet, we wouldn't have as much crazy.
To reiterate your point, we're trapped in competitive systems that produce pollution in order to keep running. And now the pollution is getting to be a problem, we can't turn it off because then things stop running, job numbers go down, recession gets thrown around, and people lose jobs and elections. So the pollution grows.
Not to mention the machine is required to feed and modulate the temperature for 8 billion f'ing people... The population die-off stage is going to be REAL fun.
the two party system and its "push me pull me but offer no real solutions" is absolutely by design.
CNN has worked hard, very very hard, to normalize Trump and make him seem like a regular candidate and politician. That was a very conscious decision by the higher ups. They did it for very specific reasons.
Good grief is thsi sub going to turn into a nother enlightened centrist circle jerk?
Are we going to pretend to Trump's unabashed full fledged fascism is exactly the same as Biden's...whatever?
come on now.
It doesn't matter; It's just politics. Whichever party is in power has little impact on the collapse of the American Empire. It's just rats on a sinking ship fighting for the power and ideals that will do nothing to stop the ship from keeling over.
If, for the sake of argument, you say that Obama is "left", and Bush II is right, AND you are not a racial or gender minority AND you are wealthy then you may not see much difference between Obama's "left" and Bush's right. But Bush I and II were corporatist right, not authoritarian reich. You have to be very wealthy, or just not give a shit about minorities to equate authoritarian reich-wing with corporate "left" or even corporate right.
The Patriot Act and Guantánamo were both widely supported by corporatist Republicans and corporatist Democrats. Both of these groups have strong authoritarian tendencies. But, politicians in 90% of the US can't get elected if they go against the authoritarian US power structure. The population of the US is more authoritarian than most other industrialized countries. And neither the corporate Republicans nor the corporate Democrats is any where near as authoritarian as the 80% of the Republican party who are "maga" authoritarians. Even corporate Republicans like Bush I and II, Romney, and Cheney don't fully support Trump. If the true authoritarian reich-wing gains control you will see policies enacted that Bush II wouldn't have done in Iraq.
It still doesn't matter. All these 'principles' won't matter in a few decades when people are fighting for food and water, and resource wars plunder us into a dystopian hell. I just stay as rural as I can out on my property and try to maintain a somewhat self-sufficient lifestyle. My quality of life is fine, so as long as I can avoid the chaos, I'm content watching it all burn from afar. I don't need to be in the thick of it.
Granted, the US has never had more than a flawed democracy; however I think that you expose one of the biggest weaknesses of democracy. When people vote for what is best for themselves rather than what is best for the country, I think that democracy will bring bad outcomes for most people living in the country.
> When people vote for what is best for themselves rather than what is best for the country
I'll never forget when my highschool gov teacher told us that the system is built around everybody voting what is personally best for themselves, and that we should vote for what personally benefits us the most.
I could hardly wrap my head around that. To me, that idea felt borderline sociopathic.
I think most people do tend to "vote their wallet" but should acknowledge that any of us is a surprise medical diagnosis away from possible bankruptcy, cutting social security would screw over our parents/grandparents, poor educational investment hurts EVERYBODY, etc.
I feel like what's best for me aligns with what's best for anybody who isn't a billionaire, tbh.
Democracy is the best system we've ever had, and it's still not good enough to overcome human nature. As long as there are humans in any form of government, it will always be flawed.
I personally don't think it matters. Left or right, neither is going to be able to fix overshoot. In 100 years time, nobody will care if Trump or Biden won this specific election. It's delusional to think the results of one election will have any long term impact on collapse. Sure, things could get slightly better or slightly worse for a brief period of time; The ship is still going down regardless.
Sure man. On the longest of timelines nothing matters. You won't be there and neither will any of us.
But trump winning this election absolutely will have a devastating effect in the near term.
Shits gonna be real bad by 2030.
Feel free to watch and wish the best, but lets not “both sides” our options.
Im as annoyed as anyone that the only option is between 2 people that would not be hired for any job anywhere for being too old.
But Trump is literally running on a revenge tour if he wins and “being a dictator for a day”, while Biden is running on making sure we have future elections and global stability.
This is not the year to joke about both sides being the same.
Biden did his "revenge tour" when he got elected. And now he is reverting back to Trump policies (not mentioned in headline news, of course). Step off your high horse and have a look for yourself.
…what did biden do on his revenge tour? Do you have a source?
Biden has actually accomplished [a lot](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-2024-his-record-so-far-economy-immigration-civil-rights-2023-04-26/) and many of those are things Trump would not have supported.
-pushed Covid vaccines
-supported Ukraine against Russia
-bolstered NATO and US security alliances, [which trump opposed (https://www.politico.eu/article/what-another-trump-presidency-would-mean-for-nato/)
-Biden retuned us to the Paris climate accord trump pulled out of.
-Biden passed inflation reduction act and poured $ into renewables and carbon reduction
-has pushed for abortion rights, gay marriage, and other progressive causes (but can do little about roe v wade with congress)
-and more recently he has taken steps to sanction west bank settlers.
Trump would not have done any of these things.
I'm not going to argue with you over the internet. Nothing I say will sway your opinion. But you can look up lists of Trumps accomplishments , too. You can also look up which policies Biden did away with, out of political spite, and now has funded or reinstated. Do your own research. But I will comment on your first bullet point. Trump is the one that passed "Operation warp speed", which is why you had the damn vaccine as fast you did in the first place. Hate him for his personality, I don't care. I don't like the guy, but don't make things up because it suits your liberal narrative. you obviously are not going to remain objective in this discourse, so I won't be responding. Have a beer. Cheers.
While [peer reviewed scientific research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9115435/) would disagree with you. I appreciate knowing when a debate will not be productive. I encourage you to research as well. I am always down for more debate another time. Cheers
Both sides are not the same, that's not the point I was trying to make. I do however believe that both sides still lead to collapse and really don't make much of a difference long term. Things are still going to get worse, I guess you're just voting for who will lead you to your own demise, and how comfortable the ride will be along the way.
Both sides aren’t the same of course but the issue is that one’s bad and the other’s worse. That’s why people are so disillusioned with the whole system and acting like it doesn’t even matter who wins
It certainly matters though. I suppose if people don’t care if they die sooner rather than later then it doesn’t matter but Trump will certainly accelerate the end faster than Biden.
I have to push back against that message:
> “We don’t have any other choice this time but boycott the election. This time we choose between two racists. No one represents Black people. Don’t go to vote.”
[-IRA voter supression tactic](https://journalism.wisc.edu/wp-content/blogs.dir/41/files/2018/09/Uncover.Kim_.v.5.0905181.pdf)
Choosing the least bad option sucks, but it still moves the pin to the direction you want. Things like judge appointments and foreign policy decisions do matter a lot. Biden is a corperate moderate, but i will take that any day over an open authoritarian with dreams of political revenge.
Oh I get it. This sub is basically "everything is pointless and stupid and dumb, there is no hope for anything, we should all committ mass suicide"
I know where I am at. I just don't agree with it.
I don't believe in hope. Hope is dangerous. My life is a lot more enjoyable without it. People think that you have to be some depressed suicidal person if you believe all is lost, but that's erroneous. I life a good life even knowing that the world is crumbling around me. As long as the debris stays off my lawn... cool. Leave me to grow my own food and wash my socks in peace. lol.
That's where I am at. I know shit's fucked and it's about to get more fucked so I just take every day as it comes and enjoy life before it's too late.
I'll do what I can to stave off collapse (ie not supporting an actual wannabee dictator), but that isn't much.
Not supporting a wannabee dictator is pretty important though. Sure it doesn't solve all our problems, but it does a great job of making sure they don’t get exponentially worse.
Like remember that time the guy drew a sharpie line on an officeial scientific NOAA hurricane chart to protect his ego? That guy can not be put in charge of decisions related to addressing the climate in any capacity.
To your point, that guy is on record as saying that, once elected again, he will "drill, baby, drill!" like there's no tomorrow. Project 2025 pretty much guts ALL climate protections and puts the foxes in charge of all the Federal henhouses.
I would expect a fascist Congress to pass a modern version of 1933's Enabling Act, as long as Fundamentalist Christian nationalist protestants are guaranteed to be put in charge of all cultural institutions. It will be the shitshow to end all shitshows and America as we know it will go the way of the Weimar Republic.
If we put it in the “American Empire” view that’s just patently untrue. If Dems had full control right now they’d flood Ukraine with weapons and money and they’d eventually defeat Russia, severely weakening Russia. That would be fantastic for the “American Empire.”
Democrats are wet blankets and often useless but the GOP is eagerly goading fascism and American collapse.
It literally isn’t the same.
you would rather have 50% of the population hate the other 50%?
I think it's about time people starting agreeing on things.
don't hate a good idea just because it came from the other team.
Not going to lie, I just got banned recently for arguing this on r/ABoringDystopia that sub is gone. They refused to admit that trump would be worse for Palestine than Biden..and positing Gallup polls (they called them misinformation) …i mean shit just look at their mod submitted sticky posts, it is a disgrace. I was a part of that sub for years when it used to be more similar to r/latestagecapitalism or this sub.
I refuse to let this sub fall to the trolls if i can help it.
You're completely right, but it doesn't *really* matter over the course of our lives. Biden enthusiastically supports Israel's genocide and... Trump will too, but harder, better, faster, stronger. He's not expanding LGBTQ rights and protections. He's letting states run rampant all over trans rights especially. He's not improving women's rights. He's not expanding worker's rights. The Dems *love* sucking up to corporations. The Dems have no plan for fixing the Supreme Court or stopping Project 2025 besides "lol just vote for us forever". He's letting Republicans control the entire narrative around immigration and vowing to sign their Hitlerist immigration policy *even though people voted for him to prevent that*. You cannot convince people to vote for you if you just let the fascists run the show anyway.
But really, the truth is the US' has a neocon party and a fascist party and neither of them are capable of solving the systemic problems with hyper capitalism gone rampant because *they are to blame*. There's no avoiding the US slide into fascism, especially not by working *within* the current system.
> There's no avoiding the US slide into fascism, especially not by working within the current system.
Well said, my concern is I do not see how burning the current system down is a solution either. I can’t think of a single scenario where we would be better off with Trump winning.
I am still hoping if he loses it will break the GOP into pieces which does open the door for more than 2 parties and ranked choice voting.
Playing devil's advocate. I think the only reason the USA hasn't already collapsed is because of their strong Military. If they didn't maintain that presence, they would have collapse already. The military leverage is keeping things somewhat stable. If the states were weak, commerce would flow elsewhere and they'd become irrelevant and easy pickings for another militarized nation. Whilst we might see a big war soon enough, modern military doctrine is less about fighting and war, and more about leverage and maintaining the power dynamic between the eastern and western block. In an ironic way, the best military is one you don't have to ever use. They USA pretty much has that.
you are making the mistake that more spending = military efficiency. its pretty clear even to the ignorant that military spending is overly bloated and mostly just a way for private entities to siphon off tax money.
and im pretty sure the USA uses its military more than most, not sure what you mean with your last point there buddy lol
The USA does have an inefficiency issue, no arguing that. However they also have a massive military presence.
My last point is clear, they seldom have to actually go to war to defend themselves right now. If you're that powerful, you can get by just my shifting your weight around. In my opinion, America's military is the greatest deterrent against global war in the world. That's why there are so many proxy wars these days. The USA doesn't have to actually 'go to war' in the current geopolitical climate. They can just put their support behind whichever side aligns with their interests, and don't have to actually put large amounts of their personal in danger. Shit would really have to hit the fan to hear "American has declared war on xyz nation" broadcast over the news. Right now anyways, it's all tactical and calculated strikes against enemies that jeopardize the status quo. Don't get me wrong, I see the chessboard being setup for a larger future conflict against our enemies in the east, but even they are not about to attack the USA directly anytime soon. Putin is fucking stupid, but even he isn't that stupid to attack America directly. The only ones that stupid right now are religious nutjobs who have a death wish, which I don't really count as a serious threat to the USA or any NATO country. They are an annoyance that will be put down. America barely has to lift a finger to do so.
There will be a time when other nations will challenge the American-centric power dynamic, but that time is not now.
>The only ones that stupid right now are religious nutjobs who have a death wish, which I don't really count as a serious threat to the USA or any NATO country. They are an annoyance that will be put down. America barely has to lift a finger to do so.
Oh, you'd be surprised how asymmetrical warfare could actually get: [https://armscontrolcenter.org/biological-threats-have-evolved-for-the-worse-and-we-are-not-prepared/](https://armscontrolcenter.org/biological-threats-have-evolved-for-the-worse-and-we-are-not-prepared/)
America will collapse from within. The more polarized people get from facts, the less will be done and the climate crisis whiplash will cause collapse. The ineffective, neutered, servile Democrats will not be brave enough to stand up to their corporate masters who are too greedy and selfish to sacrifice anything and whose other hand, the deluded GQP they will soon lose control over completely.
This. This is why Russia, China, Iran and others are troll-farming social media. The mythical "Q" lives in Moscow. Their hope is to, at a minimum, cause the US to Balkanize, at best, to turn it into a willing ally that they help descend into chaos via their chosen asset as president. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the men behind Project 2025 either directly or indirectly got their material from Russia - lots of it sounds similar to the way the USSR was built, as documented by Solzhenitzynm (sp.).
There isn’t one.
The US destroyed all the factories and allowed the complete loss of the technical skills to have an industrial base capable of supporting a real military.
We have a boutique military now that can fight for maybe 6 weeks before running out of ammo. Less if it’s a real war and not a shitty little bush war like we usually fight.
Hell, the entire annual production of medium howitzer shells for the US was enough for only defensive use in Ukraine for less than a month (13k shells produced, 5-6k used daily, Russia was using 50k a day on offensive operations), and we can’t really expand production because all of the people who made shells retired or died without passing on their skills. It will take 10-15 years to rebuild the industrial base to build the self sufficiency to sustain our current military.
We’re well past the collapse stage of a military power, we just haven’t used the last little stockpile that we have no way to replace. We’re the equivalent of a fire base on the ass end of nowhere surrounded by enemy troops: we will fuck up the first or second group to come at us, then we’ll be unable to do anything. There has been relative peace because no one country has been willing to stand against the US, but now China, Iran, and Russia are all openly challenging the US militarily, and the US physically lacks the ability to respond to all three theaters at once.
If you believe that you haven’t been paying ANY attention to the reality in Ukraine.
Stop listening to US propaganda and start looking at DoD production numbers, and then compare them to what is being used there.
Oh, and do the basic math that since the start of the war Russia has had 10-20x as much artillery on the field as Ukraine. It’s an industrial war, and there’s only one thing that matters in those: sustained volume of production. “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
It is pretty bizarre that our military is sized and equipped and funded to fight a similarly sized foe that literally doesn't, and I don't think can, exist. We should war (if we have to) smarter, not harder.
Yep. Strong military that can easily be deployed against foreign and 'domestic' foes is a great stabiliser.
The average joe is told day in and day out that the American military is the strongest. They won't consider getting uppity as they know they would get shat on from a very great height.
What are those extreme left views exactly? Do they want to exterminate their neighbors for the color of their skin, who they fuck, what they have in their pants, or what god they worship (or don't)? Do they want to forcibly enslave some of that same group? What about pass legislation to make life impossible for those groups? No? I guess I don't understand what's so extreme about the left. Since 9/11 the body count for terror attacks in this country is something like 83% far-right motivated, with another 12% eaten up by radical islamists terror. So where is this extreme left? And why are we talking about them?
Yes, there are.
What the person you responded to just finished saying is that the far left *isn't represented in the government*. Which is true. Democrats aren't the left, they're center-right. The only reason they feel "left" is because of how far into fascist extremism the right is these days.
Another example: in civilized countries, American Democrats would actually be the conservative party.
Hope this helps.
And then those who could considered 'extreme left', which would be middle of the road politicians in other countries have been sidelined a long time ago, and those who are truly 'extreme left' 'are just a weak and directionless minority who are kept around as a scarecrow to shake at others. Sometimes I think back and wonder how things might have been if the hippies had won and the country and the world might have become a utopia. . . I think I would prefer that far more than what we have now.
Exactly! Saying that 70% are in agreement is like saying that 70% are Christian. Half that number are convinced that the other half are the reason it's failing. We all agree that something is wrong but we don't really agree on what or why.
I'm reminded of a poll taken when O.J. Simpson first went to trial. The majority of Black Americans believed he was innocent but would be convicted because of his race while the majority of White Americans believed he was guilty but would get off because of his money. A solid majority of all Americans believed that the verdict would have little or nothing to do with guilt or innocence and that is sort of like being in agreement.
Haven't we all seen the exponential wealth graph of the top 1% of charts.
Exponential means it starts slow but eventually grows fast in such a small amount of time. Infinite growth is not sustainable for ANY system. If you don't pay attention This comes as a surprise. If you are paying attention, then you are bracing for impact.
I was listening to an expert talk went this, where the material rewards are just so vast for the super-wealthy that they can’t resist continuing the kleptocracy. At least it took Rockefeller a couple of decades to build his wealth, from turning basically free oil into profit via intense logistics and laying down rail infrastructure to make it more efficient.
Meanwhile, a year goes by today and the wealth of these parasites doubled. When the government invests four trillion dollars into “The Economy” when COVID hit, I haven’t really seen where that money went, and it seemed to go straight into the stock market. So the true value of the dollar went down since they printed all this money, a select few got most of the buying power, and we’re facing inflation.
If money is worth less, suppliers will simply ask for more in return for their products.
The real issue is pay not rising to meet the increased need. One way to get around this is to sell your own product. That way, no matter how bad the economy, you can always keep up.
AI will make this worse. There is projections that _this year_ we will see our first single-person billion dollar company, and that AI will enable the rise of history's first trillionaire.
It's almost like jumped-up monkeys aren't supposed to wield power like this.
Wait till NVDA is like $25k a share for no reason and stuff like APPL and META are in the several thousand dollar range making their market caps absolutely disconnected from the realities of every day people. Its the financial Elysium that the rich are constructing for themselves wherein almost all of us are priced out of any real wealth mechanisms and they continue to hoard whatever resources are left before The Churn
they need the AI to man the drones to fight off the masses- since enough people will not sit idly by while the ultra rich make off like bandits... sadly it has taken the masses a really long time to start to figure it out.
There's still money to be made, it just requires education and forethought. I still remember when bitcoin and tesla were called moonshots. I view assets like Apple as "safe parking" but not a real investment.
Raise $10m in funding for 1% of your company, then claim your company is "worth" $1b. Get the news to write articles about how you're a self-made billionaire, and pay for users and marketing so everyone knows your company's name. Then do an initial public offering and get your money out before the price tanks.
They may not openly call it ‘trickle-down’ any more, but I bet they still totally believe that leaving the wealthy to do what they want will somehow benefit the whole of society.
I don't think this actually gets it. 'Wealth' as a lot of people understand it is this big second order thing. A way to make a claim against future production. 'Wealth' in this sense is a social thing. It requires laws, enforcement, etc. etc. etc. 'Wealth' in this manner presumes the status quo continues.
Shit's fucked fam. The real problem is that 'consumption' has spiraled out of control. Real resources being used to do 'things'. Some of those things are really, really important. Like eating. Some are not so important, burning coal to power crypto mining.
The exponential curve that's fucking terrifying isn't 'wealth', it's the real, meaningful commitment that our consumption baseline represents.
I sometimes wonder whether income inequality isn’t such a bad thing. A person can only waste so many resources themselves, but if the resource coupons were distributed more evenly, we’d be consuming EVEN MORE and bringing civilization to its end.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Like, this is why fully automated luxury gay space communism isn't collapse compatible.
We are already consuming too much today. Our consumption is powered by fossil fuels. Real resources are burdened such as clean water sources. I don't think the core of the conversation can dodge the issue that reductions of standard of living are going to be widespread. So, in that sense the rich are part of the problem, but I don't think people are really interested in consuming less.
Becuase it has to be fair. No one will consume less if it means others aren’t. It’s all turned to greed and got mine. Also why consume less when people will cheat. We have no trust that we are just doing it for the greater good because that lie has been abused over and over. It can’t be a choice really. It has to be a evolution away from consumerism. Something with more purpose and I have no idea what that is and I don’t think any of us do. But consuming less won’t happen without it.
The thought has crossed my mind as well. It's weird, but if someone like Trump can brainwash millions of people into willingly staying poor, that's actually an environmental plus.
It pays to live on the positive side of compound interest. After about $1m you can realistically stop working because the interest alone is enough to cover the expenses of a modest life.
It’s even more screwed up that owning that small part of it let’s you do that by virtue of the majority of citizens not being able to own that small part.
And why can’t they own it? Because for it to allow the owner to stop being productive, those owners have to work to exclude others from being able to achieve it. If everyone had it it would be worthless.
You can explain exponential growth to people ignorant or unconcerned about it, bur that often isn’t enough. I like the visual example of the flooding football stadium where the water level doubles every minute for 60 minutes- the stadium isn’t half filled until the *59th* minute, and then it gets to the top in 1 minute afterwards.
So the Democrats believe that Donald Trump is a deadly threat to the future of the country, so their entire reaction to that possibility is....Joe Biden.
This is what happens when you have two right-wing parties, and no other options.
Until we have a legitimate 3rd Party that can push the other two out, or a take over of the Democratic party and throw out the corporatists they are by far the better of the two evils. Republicans have gone full fascist getting rid of anyone in the party who values democracy.
This is the truth. Trust me there is a huge part of me that really does not want to vote for Biden. Do I think voting for Biden will prevent what is coming? No. Do I think we have a much better chance of preserving something if we have his type of government in place. Yes. Yes. I do. Personally I would rather have someone at least with some level of common sense when we experience multi-bread basket failures. I would rather have someone that acts and actually starts implementing a rationing system. With someone like Trump that will not happen. He will just deny things are going to shit until it is too late. Would it be better if we could get someone in office that was further left, more socialist, more progressive....sure...but that is not our choice now. It probably never will be.
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What policies has Biden implemented that prevented pain and suffering, at home or abroad? He did nothing with Covid. Absolutely nothing. Except print trillions of dollars out of thin air that are now at their final destination of megacorps and billionaires and politicians. And people ask each other "why are my groceries 2x the amount they were last year?" It's common sense.
We need better choices than Biden AND Trump. so disappointed these are our only options.
And then he will have states compete to bid for necessary supplies jacking up prices for essential food. We all remember the fiasco with the PPE and ventilators under Trump.
On a scale of 1-100 (100 being perfect), Trump is a 1 and Biden is a 2.
As we know, that ain't good enough, or enough of a difference maker either way for our survival as a country or as a species.
The entire Democratic Party machine is designed primarily to destroy the leftist/progressive contingent within its coalition. The Democrats are a containment party to place a hard stop on how far "left" the nation is allowed to go by capital. You will never have a leftist movement from within the Democratic Party, it exists to stop that from happening. They care about that more than winning.
Not really as far as I know. We survived the first capitol riot, we’ll survive the next one. The rioters are way, way too stupid to get organized in any way that can pose a legitimate threat to US government. Americans, even right wing rioters, are still too attached to their material comforts to create organized opposition. A lot of the rioters had 9-5 jobs they planned to return to after the big riot.
A second term of Trump will be an incredible disaster, but I think the empire will continue to hobble along after that just like it has been.
What’s really concerning and seemingly imminent, regardless of which two political party is in power, is war with China.
The reason why Jan 6 failed because there were still enough republicans who opposed Trump, most of them are going or gone now so if they attempt again at overthrowing the result of an election (supposably if Trump loses again) they are more likely to be successful
Jan 6th was a bunch of idiots taking selfies and putting their feet up on politician's desks lol. The fact that people are still propping it up as if it were some attempt at overthrowing the government is laughable.
How so? Mike Pence and the majority of republican senators voted to certify the results of the 2020 election. If it happens again those individuals won't be there
1. how did Jan 6 fail? What was their objective?
2. No one is going to storm the capital again. It's a weird fantasy that some of you redditors secretly want to happen, i guess.
3. Even IF they were to try, how would they be more successful? You don't think there are precautions being taken this time? c'mon man!
The three months after the election where Trump tried to overthrow the results. There was 63 court cases. He was on tape trying to push the attorney general of Georgia to find votes for him. He then stirred up the crowd to pressure congress to not certify the results.
Why do you say Trump’s second term *will* be a disaster? I can’t imagine he’s going to win again, certainly enough of the institutions have wised up to his game now.
You sound like you teleported from February 2016... Trump is backed by the media, the money, and some of the military. Biden is also not a great candidate because of his age. Unless Biden drops out in favor of someone younger and, possibly, a woman, then the Dems are toast. They need someone to galvanize the nation, not someone who's backing 20th century policies.
100% this. For insurrectionists to overthrow America would require the raising of an army. You would need trained people being paid year round to form a militia that stood anyshot at overthrowing the US government. The US government would never let that happen and any billionaire who has enough money to fund such a stupid idea has no motivation to want such as a thing.
Already happened with 9/11. Traumatic scary event brought about by our own hubris and committed by people we otherize and look down on becoming a monument to our failures and enmeshing itself in our collective psyche to the point we as a country developed a deep xenophobic complex surrounding foreigners leading to an increase in unfettered national security at any cost? Sounds the same to me
Yeah we are regardless of how it turns out.
The way to deal with Trump is the same way you deal with any washed up celebrity. Mockery. Vicious, merciless, unending mockery.
All these trials do is legitimize him more and more in certain peoples' minds.
I've got news for you about Roman dental care and average life expectancy...
I know you're joking but most of us still have it better than the kings of old.
2016 was the fork in the road for the US in my opinion because we had Bernie Sanders running on all of these pillars--he was the compromise. Of course he was destroyed by the elite and then the worst candidate in the history of presidential elections lost to the second worst candidate and 8 years later, things are absolutely in a rapid decline.
The powerful will not cede power willingly and therein lies the problem. The citizenry either takes power back by force or we just throw our hands in the air and let the system crush us. Those are the only two options.
>2016 was the fork in the road for the US in my opinion because we
1999 was the fork in the road for the US in my opinion, because Al Gore won the election, but the Supreme Court decided in favor of G.W. Bush.
In hindsight, it's as if the space-time continuum farted, and we're on a different and weird timeline where nothing makes sense.
1980 was actually the inflection point, when the Religious Right helped a Libertarian to power and gave legitimacy to American extremists who hadn't sniffed power for 50 years.
1963 should have been a clue, really the whole decade following too with Fred Hampton, MLK, Malcom X, Kent State .
The message was very clear. Institutional reform? Organized resistance? Yeah you can get that shit out of your head right now. We will smear you. We will subvert you. We will drug you. Hell we'll even shoot you in your fucking house if we feel like it. And you won't do a damn thing about any of it.
The message was resoundingly clear, and I think the culture still hasn't processed the trauma or implications of that failed revolution.
I was so young I didn’t really understand how important that one was either until 10 years later or the fact that it was practically decided by hundreds of “are these votes or not” and then ultimately by the fucking Supreme Court. 2024 is going to be a bloodbath politically I’m afraid.
That's a lovely idea. What if instead we:
1. Solidify neo feudalism
2. Flavor our oligarchy with proto fascism
3. Let the poor die in the streets
4. See 3
Plastic everything, no relationship of value outside the home. Many even inside the home find no value in each other.
Who is proud of their local, state environments? Who is proud of their community?
There’s a fair amount of pride here in my small PNW community. Circus folk spinning fire toys in the sunset, community gardens, beach cleanups, vibrant state colleges with low barriers to entry.
However, COVID unraveled a lot of the traditions. Inertia is a terrible thing—once a tradition like a non-profit parade pauses, it’s *very* hard to get it going again. And many of the good establishments like dance halls got converted to cookie cutter ale houses.
I’d like to go there but the wildfires, population density and homelessness (driven by HCOL) scares me. It was really bad in Portland 5 years ago and I heard it only got worse
It's really not as bad as it's made out to be on the news. I moved to the Hillsboro area near Portland back in 2021 and was there for 2 years. I loved it there and plan to go back once it's time to settle down.
Portland proper has a lot of issues with homelessness and drug abuse, but it's not any worse than what I've seen in Denver, Dallas, or really any big city I've been to.
Guess I got lucky with wildfires, as apart from a few days of smokey skies during the summer, they weren't occurring anywhere near where I lived.
Really if you want to go there, you should check it out. Seriously the most beautiful nature I've ever experienced.
I mean…did this not happen? You can belittle and downplay my comments all you like but I was expressing genuine concern for your region. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Western_North_America_heat_wave
Sorry for being facetious there… Every region has its downsides. I’m afraid of tornadoes and hurricanes. I suppose a volcano eruption would suck, and the mega earthquake we’re expecting is not going to be fun. But conditions are fairly mild. We have homeless, but so does Tucson and LA and NYC. The fires aren’t scary for me because I’m actively trying to fight them—I did a stint as a wildland firefighter and I’m currently working to rehydrate the landscape and fight invasives. I do have concerns for the future in the northwest and I worry about the dwindling glaciers and desertification, but I’m confident in our resilience.
I’ll put it this way: I spend a week in Detroit for work and I went to a landscaping dealership to get tools for my crew. The Stihl employees heard I was from the northwest and asked about conditions on the ground in Portland. Is it a war zone? Are the protesters setting fires this week? Have I stepped on any needles recently? Keep in mind, I had heard Detroit was basically a third world country before finding out it is pretty normal too. We drive down to Portland every couple weeks for concerts and are fine.
No worries. I like the amount of produce that Washington has and there are a lot of permaculture farmers catching water up there. Take care (and Detroit is a 3rd world country in some areas like flint). Homeless people will continue to rise everywhere sadly
Did you mean demon or daughter? I tell anyone skip College unless it is a specialized field with a job option after school. I tell anyone that asks, " Get a job in a trade. Car mechanics and carpenters will be needef to build homes.
The data from this poll was polled in 2018 and released 2019.
[Here is the topline questionnaire.](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/03/US-2050_topline-FINAL.pdf)
[Here is the full report](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/03/US-2050_full_report-FINAL.pdf), methodology on page 55
I wonder that too. China is so big that there can be a whole “movement” of millions of people and it’s nothing really in the scheme of things. I understand fierce Chinese nationalism is on the rise in the past few years, so that probably indicates something.
So . . . . no place to escape to at this point in history . . . ?
In some ways, I find that comforting because I am stuck here (if that makes any sense). I read comments about people leaving, "getting the hell out of the u.s. while there is still time") and I feel nauseous . . . terrified actually . . . because I do not have the means to go anywhere else. I am envious that some people can get out of this god forsaken place, founded on genocide.
In some ways this seems like movies about Nazi Germany. At the beginning of the movie when it's pre-war, and the characters (among the targeted populations who end up in camps and/or dead) could leave, but they stayed and your'e sitting there watching the movie thinking, "get out, get out before it's too late!!".
But of course, this is different in that the earth's biosphere is dying and authoritarian leaders are rising to the surface everywhere.
>So . . . . no place to escape to at this point in history . . . ?
Yep, I've heard others in the UK say "fuck this place I wanna move to Amsterdam"
Cool, they just elected a far right party and their flood defenses aren't going to stand up over time
It's inescapable
Yeah I don't know about you but I'd rather die just about anywhere else than under Orange Pinochet.
That said how the hell would I leave as well?
"Political asylum" pshhh shit's played for voting brownie points in other countries, just like "helping the poor" is played here.
I feel the same thing sometimes. Although I do find comfort in my home. The place I have lived since I was born. It is almost like it is a part of me. I want to be here to witness it as it falls apart. I feel like I owe it that much. We owe our planet that much. We need to witness what we have done.
My guess is if the U.S. does go down the authoritarian hole I figure I have a pretty good chance of flying under the radar. My husband and I have space in our home and could open it up to people should they need a place to hide. We even have a decent space we could hide and keep people there should things go bad with LGBTQ+ folks. We feel we are building a nice group around us that could work well together when things go up in smoke.
Don't get me wrong we have talked about fleeing. Where we would go and how, but I just don't see it being an easy thing to do if things get bad enough. Plus even if we could escape the authoritarian hold in the US. the Biosphere is collapsing anyway...no matter where we go...and the authoritarian beliefs are rising to prominence in most places as well. There really is no escape this time.
Wow, what a beautiful, poignant post. Thank you. I appreciate r/collapse so much . . . . especially posts like this.
Yes, even if I could, I would find it hard, if not impossible, to leave the land where I live, the native gardens I have planted, the birds I feed . . . . and more. I find it hard to leave the flora/fauna around me even for a few days!
Hummingbirds come back to the same spot, sometimes even before the feeder is up, hovering around my kitchen window------ migrating hundreds, if not thousands of miles to return to their breeding grounds and the nectar sources that remain.
And my partner and I have room to shelter people as well. And like you, we are lucky to have found a little community of compassionate people. Thanks again for your reply.❤️
a system that rewards corruption and punishes honesty is an already failed system.
1- corporations are profit machines that chew up new grads and spit them out. while management is uninvolved, incompetent, and fat.
2- politics is corrupted, can be bought with money, we have the illusion of choice.
3- people are isolated and divided, digital communications can be easily manipulated by AI.
4- running out of resources, climate change irreversible
​
not just America, this is a global collapse that's in the works and add to it endless wars and conflict.
if the world did collaborate and work together to solve these problems we might stand a chance. but it seems they chose to have a last man standing solution, so let's fight it out for the next 27 years and hopefully if all works to plan we'll have 2 - 3 billion people left alive on the planet and we can finally have peace.
what a shit show for a species, a fucking circus of incompetence, ignorance, stupidity, physical and mental retardation and perversion.
if aliens did really exist, not sure if they'll want to have anything to do with us... and if they were unfriendly and looking to take over the planet all they have to do is sit and watch "never interrupt your enemy while they're busy making a mistake" well no shit, we're on a clear path of self annihilation.
I think I'd be more interested in seeing a few people who have had some sort of interaction with AI, like a few people who've been to a few different AI conferences or something, and I'd like to see what kind of feedback they give me about what I should say or what they think about my responses or whatever. Like, how do they think I'm thinking or thinking? How do they feel about what I say?
we are a sort of biological quantum AI computer. but it takes a long time for neurons to be sculpted and trained... it is like biomachine learning.
AI on the other hand can utilize a massive amount of computing and can train at the speed of light (electricity). besides, it has instant access to the world's knowledge. meanwhile human memory is not very reliable as there's so many variables.
AI doesn't feel and doesn't make judgements based on emotion. feelings are a result of a complex set of biomechanisms, hormones, chemical signals etc. to culminate in physical symptoms... AI is either 1 or a 0, and soon enough with incorporation of quantum computing the combinations become exponentially huge and compute time almost instant.
this means AI is already far more superior to humans, their near instant decisions are based on calculations that would take a human several decades of research and thinking.
there's also the terrifying aspect of unemotional decision making, the version of AI we have access to is just the tip of the iceberg, it is a pruned down and restricted pg13 version of what gov. military already has access to.
this means the justification of genocide of billions of people with ruthless efficiency for the sake of solving the climate crisis and for other means/ resource exploitation and world domination. AI knows everything about you, AI knows you better than you know yourself. it can detect your behavior patterns and cross-reference them with millions of other human profiles in its database and create a comprehensive analysis of your political affiliation all the way down to your dessert preferences, all from a few minutes worth of data scraped from the internet.
the world is nothing but a winner vs loser if its condensed down to its essence. and to them the vast majority are the losers and would be better off dead. fortunately they don't have the tech advanced enough yet to replace us. but the purge is already underway and ongoing.
it's funny that I had a short conversation with one of the AI models, told it if Mars was colonized and humans on earth had the choice to volunteer to go, how many humans on earth would remain so that there's world peace, ample resources and reversal of climate change... of course the Mars migration is just a humorous take on human extermination... and the answer is between 2 - 3 billion people on earth.
and scarily enough I agree with that scenario, it might give the planet's animal and plant kingdoms a fighting chance to thrive again, and a human population augmented by AI and robotic automation that is free, happy, healthy... in some ways a successful communism where resources are more than enough.
I donno, I'm just sick of this reality, it's been nothing but shit since the day I was born.
In 2019, I could rent a room in a 3bedroom house for $670. Now, that same exact room with no functional upgrades in any way rents for $1100.
Cost of food has gone up similarly. I have to grow food, visit the food bank, and shoplift food to get by.
They're actively working hard to get Gilead, not just waiting for it. It would not surprise me in the least if, once in power, they legalize polygamy because "it's in the Bible! Jacob had two wives, doncha know!"
I've always been shocked by the homeless population here in America. I grew up in a war zone and in a city that was periodically filled with refugees. But they had lots of help, from within the country and without. Here the homeless are on their own except perhaps for the small non-profit orgs that might be in the area.
It always seems so weird that it’s worse in places with MORE money like San Francisco or New York City. Like… you’re saying there’s not enough money floating around in this city to put together some basic affordable housing? Surely even rich people don’t want to live in a place where people are shooting up on the streets
The homeless from the other places are being sent there because the residents don't want to fund homeless services. They would rather buy them greyhound tickets to a city where they will be someone else's problem.
What's wrong with the other 30%?
Oh, right, they probably own a home, have amazing health insurance coverage, and a fat 401(k) and/or other "financial products" bull shit.
Give 'em a few more years--they'll come around. Hell, maybe even after the next election we'll see that number pushing into the 90th percentile.
Rapid decline but not for the same reasons people in this sub are aware of the decline. Most think Biden is ruining the country and vice versa with trump and the other republicans.
Sure the presidents have their role in it but it’s more on the big corporations and banks
Hey Americans,
Don’t worry about the collapse of your country, you need to get ready for your next war that Israel wants you to fight, Yemen maybe but definitely Iran.
Meh. Everything is in decline. It’s population overshoot and environmental catastrophe that is going to be mismanaged until the bitter end. Ironically, America is probably going to do better for longer than other places.
God, I wish more people understood this. Things have value for only two reasons: Because we can use it (food, tools, shelter, clothing, etc.) or because a large enough group of people has collectively agreed that it has arbitrary value (precious metals, stone wheels, shells, gemstones, paper slips with faces on them, numbers in a database, etc.) and there is nothing magical about anything that give it innate value outside of those two.
The US of A, where everything goes wild. But as Japanese I can attest this isn't only The US phenomenon. Although it isn't wild like The US we're experiencing slow and steady decline over 3 decades. Everyday I'm watching the elderlies can't walk properly forced to work to just get by and dying inside and wondering WTF is this all about.
Looking at the original Pew poll:
'Nearly half of whites say a majority non-white population will weaken American culture' and:
'Among religious groups, roughly equal shares of white evangelicals (52%), white mainline Protestants (51%) and white Catholics (54%) say religion will be less important in the future'
This suggests that the 'Rapid Decline' of the headline could be related to traditional values/morality/racism etc. and not the decline and collapse of the environment and global civilisation it supports which is usually discussed in this subreddit.
I went grocery shopping and overheard 2 different people complain about prices and openly voiced how the hell am I going to get enough food for our family. They were just placing food in their carts and muttering under their breaths or talking to their partners. This has happened maybe 5+ time in the last month. Decent area, this isn't some run down place.
Very concerning.
I have audibly said "Fuck that, that's too expensive," in the grocery store. It's almost like the owner class is trying to make it so average people cannot meaningfully participate in society.
You're dead wrong about that. The US is going to take most of the rest of the world with them. And if you think China is going to be a more benevolent overlord, I have a bridge to sell you.
I wonder why the go-to is always "China will be our overlord." (Sometimes big scary Russia) Maybe NO ONE will step in and be our "overlords." Perhaps we simply re-form as a less powerful but kinder world player that actually works in the interest of our own citizens. At the very least our 900+ military bases in other countries finally get shut down.
You haven't convinced me that the end of US hegemony is a bad thing. I'm still rooting for that end of the Petro Dollar. At any rate you all might want to prepare for it since this empire is overdue anyway lol. It's coming whether we like it or not, in fact it's currently underway. At least 70% of people, apparently, can see it.
Human history has varied outcomes for the ends of empires, the end British Empire is a good example of how it could end. I think Americans have been so propagandized that we only see it ending in a massive invasion by whoever we're currently trying to maintain dominance over.
You know how every Hollywood alien invasion movie has the aliens destroying everything and stealing our land and resources? We fear that because that's what WE do, or rather what our rulers do.
We're a world pariah. We always have been. Did you know Hitler took inspiration from our slaughter of roughly 10 million indigenous people? I don't ignore human history at all, trust.
Ugh, no one said anything about an invasion.
If you think the collapse of the most well armed and bloodthirsty empire in the history of the world is going to make anything better for *anyone*, you're nuts and I can't help you.
You said "China will be our overlord" or some such. Sure sounds like that what you meant, sans further clarification.
Yes, I absolutely do believe the collapse of *the most well armed and bloodthirsty empire in history* will help a LOT of people. It's exactly what needs to happen. Do you hear yourself? You seem weirdly jingoistic and illogical.
I don't recall asking for your "help" lol. No thanks, tho.
The history of all hitherto existing human society is the history of class struggles.
And it'll end not with the collectively suicidal triumph of the most recent and dangerous iteration of class domination, nor the final total victory of the oppressed classes and thorough preventative measures taken against reemergence of power consolidation.
It'll end when people come together for a big group hug as the house burns around them. The game of power will simply mysteriously vanish overnight. ^(/s)
Apparently 56% of the country being somewhat to very optimistic about the country in 2050 is a complete collapse of public morale.
Couldn't read the full article but the cherries have been picked.
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The US could be in rapid decline. But it is still miles better than most other countries in the world.
Or this could be me coping with the fact that I chose to immigrate here. Hard to tell.
That 30% is probably the 10% that are moderately to very wealthy and another 20% who still think they are even though those big house/car payments that everyone encouraged them to stretch and reach for are getting a bit tighter and increasingly unsustainable all the time. Wheee.
It’s an election year. Disingenuous bullshit spin to rouse the semi-literate rabble who can’t read more than a sentence will be nonstop.
And we haven’t even seen the Republican AI created bullshit smear that features Biden yet, and you *KNOW* that’s coming.
I’ve come to hate election years.
THANK you! I have seen this posted in like 4 different subs with the exact same post title and a comment section pull of people who most definitely did not even click on it before commenting. Starting to feel like a crazy person, but at least one other person has noticed hahA
The article doesn't even link to the study it's referencing. It says it's a Pew Research Poll from April of 2023, but the link goes to a study from March of 2019.
Posted on Medium… check. Dramatic hyperbolic headline… check. Disingenuous bullshit premise… check. The Medium trifecta lol.
The truth is (per the article):
>The Pew Research Center’s April 2023 survey found that 68% of Americans expressed at least some pessimism about the country’s future, citing concerns about the economy, political divisions, and societal problems.
“Some pessimism” about the economy, politics, or societal issues is not thinking “the United States is in rapid decline”.
The number of people outside the USA who think that are probably probably even more. When you are not blinded by American Exceptionalism, the decline was obvious for a while.
This scene is around for a while:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk)
Civil War? That isn't happening. A 'Civil War' would require two sides. The war is already over.
The right wing already won, they control the entire political, police, and military apparatus. The left has been scattered, often murdered, and neutered by the gaslighting political establishment.
There is just going to be an ongoing transition to authoritarianism and fascism, no matter who wins. Even when the Republicans lose elections they still outwit and force the feckless Democrats to shift the Overton window to the right.
What exactly are the 'Always Blue' Democrats doing to stop a so-called 'Civil War'? They are undemocratically shutting down all primary challengers to a senile, diaper shitting, neoliberal, creepy hair sniffing racist.
Decline and collapse are happening but it will be more 'Children of Men' with a fascist state trying to keep its power over a dying civilization.
Keep in mind also there are far more women on the left and far more men on the right. A civil war on party lines would cut families in half. I don't really see that happening. You'll have small scale conflicts between the radicals on both sides, but there simply aren't enough people willing to die for this nonsense that they're fighting about, which is basically just cultural and philosophical disagreement about social issues.
Indeed. There is no 'appetite' for Civil War as that would require people to actually down their phones or stop watching the NFL.
In fact, 'appetite' is entirely the problem given Americans are overweight from sugary poison and chemicals. The only thing Americans are charging are their credit cards and Colonel Sanders..
Many years ago there was a hacker, Kevin Mitnick, who was allegedly gaining access to computer and communications infrastructure. When they finally caught him they held him without bail for several years, afraid that he was so sophisticated that he could take a Hallmark greeting card with a device that could play a tune such as 'happy birthday' and use that to hack his cell door lock and somehow sneak out and wreak havoc on the world.
As it turned out, this was pretty much impossible to do considering the security and it was likely that Mitnick was really nothing more than a 'script kiddie' who was getting direction from a hacker in Israel.
I don't understand why someone like Trump and his minions who are a very clear and present danger to US democracy are not locked up behind bars and held without bail for the same reasons that Mitnick was.
Trump has a decades long history of engaging in various crimes, and very costly ones at that and has real connections to worldwide organized crime.
It should be a no-brainer to lock him up and people such as Roger Stone, Steve Banning and many others.
Failure to do so may very well end up slamming the door on whatever freedoms that the US and it's citizens still have and turn the country overnight into Putin's Amerika.
Because the Republicans are malicious and largely want what Trump & co. want, even if some of them want the process to be more respectable and the Democrats are naive idiots that refuse to let go of the belief that the other side is playing fair and in good faith (and a fair number of them also want a fair number of the same things).
And this is why the Republicans need to be arrested and prosecuted sooner rather than later. After Merrick Garland is kicked out of a position he never deserved and Jack Smith is put in his place. I think he would be like a shark with rabies against those corrupt, democracy hating authoritarian shills.
Then circle back once that's done and kick out the corporatist dems.
Copying and pasting my reply from another sub
This post title is misleading. It’s not the headline of the article and it is not what the poll results show:
“The survey also revealed that while 56% of all adults were somewhat or very optimistic about what the country will be like in 2050, this optimism waned when respondents were asked about specific aspects of American life. For instance, a majority of U.S. adults predicted that the U.S. economy in 30 years will be weaker than it is today, and six-in-ten adults believed that the country will be less important in the world in 2050 than it is today. “
I mean… the US is in a decline. And it would actually be pretty nice if this many Americans were aware of it and understood why and how to fix it. It would give me some hope. But the poll this article is referencing shows that, if you add up the results on questions about specific topics, 70% of respondents have at least a somewhat negative outlook on at least one of them, but a majority of respondents have an overall positive outlook on America’s future.
TLDR: don’t get too excited. The lemmings are still walking towards the cliff.
The right will say it’s for different host of reasons: Group L.
The left will say it’s for a host of reasons: Group R.
Somewhere in between will a host of reasons that inhabit the intersection of L & R in the Venn diagram.
This article says it's talking about a Pew Research study from April of 2023, but the one it links to is dated March, 2019. They also pulled the info about optimism for 2050 from the 2019 study.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/03/21/public-sees-an-america-in-decline-on-many-fronts/
For us, a quick decline. The system is operating for the extremely affluent as intended. We are essentially in the latter stages of a simulation of capitalism based on actual life.
Most of that number is on the right path but have no idea how bad it will get or how the decline will manifest however. I'm surprised how many people have an inaccurate view of how things will likely turn out.
I am thinking that unless that poll was done very carefully, a *lot* of that 70% is people who are voting to pull America out of that decline by supporting the "Make America Great Again" candidate.
Which makes it more of a political topic than a collapse one.
I'm not sure what's going on and I, actually, do NOT see the rapid decline except to note that, yes, our population pressures are increasing all the time and, hence, the homeless problem. I do see that half the population has gone off the deep end in thinking that we are experiencing some sort of moral collapse and the other 50% sees the collapse awareness of the first 50%, so that we are all seeing signs of some sort of moral collapse. Lots of other issues, too, but what everyone sees is what I'm commenting on.
Be careful about this.
You know how much of a force multiplier media and social media is. I'll believe this poll when there's no chance of an Orange Dildo getting elected.
This kind of shit is right up his alley, man. He's one of those "if you can't build yourself up, tear everyone else down" kind of guys.
Personally I think this is a misinformation campaign targeted specifically at the election.
I mean not that things are going swimmingly by any means but this feels like a soft coup to install an Orange dictator by means of public opinion, just saying.
Yes but I'm sure there's a massive split in the reasoning people give for it. There'll be a massive "Godlessness, abortions and Mexicans" contingent, a smaller "Trump ruined everything" group and then those who identify Biden's BAU neoliberalism as the problem - that's about the closest to "collapse aware" you're likely to encounter.
Well have you been outside or online or watched the news? The 30% that doesn’t think it’s in a rapid decline, are the majority reasoning behind the rapid decline.
And or dishonest people that think they will benefit. Any working person that thinks they will benefit from our current trajectory in anyway but the short-term of course is quite lacking in analytical capability so I guess it's kind of a chicken and egg.\\
Half of them are mostly lying though, at least.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Metrichex:
---
Submission statement:
Americans are becoming increasingly aware of of the decline of the United States, and how rapidly the decline is occuring.
This is collapse related because collapse of the American empire would have devastating worldwide effects.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ajimma/poll_nearly_70_of_americans_think_the_united/kp16v68/
As a final reminder, your post must include a valid submission statement within 30 min. The submission statement I identified is too short (144 chars):
> Submission statement:
Americans are becoming increasingly aware of of the decline of the United States, and how rapidly the decline is occuring.
https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ajimma/poll_nearly_70_of_americans_think_the_united/kp16v68/
Submission statements must clearly explain why the linked content is collapse-related. They should contain a summary or description of the content and must be at least 150 characters in length. They must be original and not overly composed of quoted text from the source. If a statement is not added within thirty minutes of posting it will be removed.
Please message the moderators if you feel this was an error. Responses to this comment are not monitored.
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