Would you consider leaving if no relationship and friends?
Posted by Morgenseele@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 88 comments
There are many reasons to move to another country, but over time, the lack of relationship or friends can become a heavy burden on your shoulders, especially if it happens in so-called socially “cold and distant” countries. It is true that people find love and friendship even in those conditions, which makes me think if you don’t - it is a clear sign that you need to move on.
Have you ever thought about leaving the country based of this? How did you cope with this feeling? Has anyone had a positive experience when their personal life improved significantly after changing countries? What were those countries?
Thank you.
m3skalyn3@reddit
Yes I currently live in Sweden and I think about this everyday.
I am coping with this by updating my CV and start sending them to companies outside of here (I am excluding any Nordic country from my search). I find that I need a country with more movement, more expats (not the introverted ones that live here) and that has more to do/entertainment options than "go for a hike alone in the woods"
I can only look forward to the day that I pack my bags and never come back again
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Are you dating to try other Germanic countries?
m3skalyn3@reddit
Probably the Netherlands - although I speak German, I recognise that the German economy is not the best at the moment. Austria and Switzerland don't catch my eye one bit
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
I think that'll be less bad - albeit still on the cold and distant side less so.
leonjoyce1@reddit
Dunno, the Dutch tend to stick to their own quite a lot. I’m lucky to have made a few Dutch friends but these were the outgoing ones. One of my friends lives in a student house and they basically only accept new tenants if they are Dutch/ have some relationship to the culture/ country!
gigsope@reddit
What city do you live in? Stockholm had an amazing expat community. Not sure now but I can't imagine it's changed. Mixture of Swedes, Foreigners, and a small group of entrepreneurs who came once a year.
m3skalyn3@reddit
I don't live in any of the major cities of Sweden...
Zonoc@reddit
It honestly sounds like you need to move to a city. Finding community in small towns is more of a crapshoot than a city.
m3skalyn3@reddit
I live in a city, it is just not one of the major ones. But sincerely, after this year I am not that willing to give another shot at Sweden - I have visited Stockholm lots of times and it seemed the most dead capital city I ever visited (except Oslo).
I guess Nordic culture is definitely a "no" for me
hairynostrils@reddit
Just move and be done with it
I have the same problem in Seattle and often stop myself from making relocation decisions because I sorta blame myself for not doing enough in the social department
But in reality - and sadly - Seattle is just a really progressive hell hole and is only a cool place if you are of the the technological class and loaded
Certain plants can't grow in Seattle
And I'm one of them
Sounds like Sweden is the same for you
gigsope@reddit
LOL the problem is definitely you. Your posts are batshit crazy. Seattle is great and considering Bill Gates doesn't actually live in Seattle I question whether you do. That statue of Lenin is privately owned onn someone's property and for sale so if you don't like it you can buy it and melt it down for scrap. You should move to Mar-a-Lago or Moscow where you'll fit in better. Bring the statue with you.
hairynostrils@reddit
Thanks for the info - I’ll consider it
Had no idea
I could buy it and do dress it up as a clown for everyone to drive by everyday
I mean - I’ll look into it
gigsope@reddit
Lenin was a total genocidal piece of shit. I know that statue gets vandalized occasionally but it really should get disrespected permanently if it's not going to get melted down. The owner was a fool thinking an American would buy it. Yet his mausoleum is up against the Kremlin wall in Red Square and there was a line of Russians waiting to see him when I visited the city. Here's a guy who murdered around FOUR MILLION civilians and he's revered in Russia. Disgusting.
superduperspam@reddit
Hmm, your posting history says you support trump, follow Tim pool and feel overwhelmed by woke-lgbt.
Imma guess you are a closet homosexual in denial, unwilling to come to terms with it, and lashing out at the liberal/woke/LGBT movt because you see something you want, but can never allow yourself to have.
And that is a terribly sad way to live life.
gigsope@reddit
I don't think anyone should do that in any country really. Try creating a new expat group that works for your interests and capturing what's nearby.
xenaga@reddit
I left after 3 years in Switzerland. I could not build any kind of relationships, even at work. People always kept me at an arm's length.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
I know this feeling, it is so frustrating especially when time flies and nothing changes for you 😭 Did you decide to return home?
xenaga@reddit
Yes I left and went back home. Although my relationships back home are not the same, its easier to call and hang out with people here. Im Switzerland I needed to plan 1 to 2 months in advance.
LyleLanleysMonorail@reddit
Is this hyperbole, or are you serious about needing to plan 1-2 months in advance to just hang out with people?
xenaga@reddit
No I'm serious. The Swiss people need to know weeks and weeks in advance of a plan. Also late 30s so people in my age group are busier.
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I've been in Canada for 2.5 years and I don't have a single local person that I can consider a friend. Let alone, having a relationship.
100% of my friends are also foreigners. From a group of 20~ people, only one have a genuine interest in staying here. Everyone wants to leave, more or less for the same reasons.
Not the first reason I want to leave this place. But yes, for me it's decided and I'm leaving for real in the autumn 2024. I am already tired.
DatingYella@reddit
That is kind of insane. Canada is one of the more friendly countries I thought.
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I won't say anything more. I've experienced a lot of racism and xenophobia here, and I'm extremely sad, depressed and disappointed because of that.
DatingYella@reddit
Are you a minority?
From what I can tell a lot of Europeans in America also feel “Othered”
Fiona-eva@reddit
Oh wow I wrote my comment without seeing yours, but just wanted to let you know you’re definitely not alone feeling like this in Canada, it’s been 4 years and I managed to make one friend.
Disturbed_Childhood@reddit
Have you ever thought about moving to another province instead? Quebec has a strong reputation for being really antisocial.
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I have suffered so much that I have no energy left to try anywhere else in this country. Exclusion, racism, xenophobia. I've already traveled around Ontario (I've been to many cities) and I don't feel anything that attracts me. I'm just deeply disappointed and I don't want to be here anymore.
Big-Importance-7239@reddit
I'm in Canada too and I feel the same. I'm dying here. Where are you heading?
BatteryAcidCoffeeAU@reddit
I had no friends in Canada for a year and it was painful. I literally landed back home 🤣 Gotta save money for a bit and maybe try my luck in the UK / Europe
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I'm not sure yet! Looking for research positions in Europe. What province or territory of Canada are you in?
Big-Importance-7239@reddit
I’m in Quebec. I’ve been here for so long
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I know how you feel. It's really sad because I think the city and the province in general are absolutely beautiful, but I feel disappointed, I feel left out and I have a very strong feeling of not belonging. I'm in Quebec City, feel free to send me a message if you want to talk.
Big-Importance-7239@reddit
It says on your profile I can't send you a message.
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I think I solved it, try again 🙌🏻
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I will open a chat with you. My profile is bugged and can't receive DMs 🥲
throwawayldr08@reddit
also from LatAm and left Canada for the UK. Don’t recommend it here!
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
You plan to come back home or try somewhere else?
ecopapacharlie@reddit
I had amazing experiences before when I was in Switzerland and Ireland. I was feeling really welcomed and I made some really good local friends.
So I understand that it's not me, it is Canada, it's just not for me. I will try somewhere else.
Careful_Ability_1110@reddit
I moved to a different state in USA and have this problem! It’s a world wide issue these days!
Ok-Courage-2468@reddit
Leaving for looking for friends, or b acuase of the lack of them. Yes, still believe that love is overrated in comparison to friendship. My rule is: the smaller/ insulated/multicultural the location, the higher the chance to fill this gap.
There are countries that create chances for situational friendships and others no. In NL since 7 years now and not even a glimpse of situational friendship.
Leaving to join my friends, but where to? My friends are scattered throughout the world, therefore not a single place would ever replicate the University years.
Move back to home, but what for? Most of the friends there or had left or never left, which in both cases it would be kind of a gigantic gap to feel in terms of interests and life goals.
As much as it might sound obvious, it is easier to make friends with the people you share the most, possibly confined by geographical limits.
For instance, Singapore and Hong Kong are great places to make friends, even if they leave one day the life is so intense that you will stay in touch forever.
Or, you learn to be content and leave with yourself. Not lonely, but be able still to live a content life.
Still, Friends = treasure to me
inrecovery4911@reddit
I've lived in Germany for 20 years and for 18-19 of them I've woken up every day and thought about how much better my life was when I lived somewhere I had friends/could easily make friends. Unfortunately, I chose to sink all my hopes into a relationship, family, house with someone who refuses to leave Germany. So I stay. I personally believe we need to feel like we have a "tribe" of people who get us just as we are to be truly happy, and that tribe might not be found just anywhere. If I knew then what I know now, I'd do it differently.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
True, I couldn’t find this tribe and sense of belonging back home and I thought I would have better luck far away but maybe some of us are doomed to stay loners. I sink my hopes to the relationship as well, thinking that this will be enough for me but after reading your comment, I have doubts again
thedarkestgoose@reddit
Nope. I find love life and friends everywhere I go, but I also never had this problem in my life. I notice people who tend to have this problem as an expat, have this problem in their home country.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
This may be true, but I have seen many cases when people were lonely or unhappy in their personal lives, in their home country, and after moving their lives changed as if by magic - they accidentally found their dream partner, accidentally found their best friend, etc. And that’s when I start to wonder
thedarkestgoose@reddit
I noticed that some people will go to a country and be happier when they show up. They are happier and try new things. In their home country they are not happy and live the same life. Perspective will get you farther in any place.
KindForestEagle@reddit
Well that's definitely not true for me. My explanation for this is that I have much lower self esteem when I'm abroad because of my accent and fear I won't fit in and people can smell this so they don't want to hang out with me. In my home country, I'm confident and easy going and have no problem making friends.
thedarkestgoose@reddit
Get some therapy to help with self esteem.
DatingYella@reddit
I’d say that this is one of the primary reasons for someone to LIVE. I had a three year chapter in China. In the first year when I wasn’t in a relationship. I was very lonely, especially since locals didn’t want to befriend me even though I spoke acceptable Chinese (I’m Chinese American).
So yeah. If I’m in a new place and I’m unable to form a bond, I’d leave.
Kind of a shame so many people seem like they can’t meet people in a comfortable place. The Germanic peoples I met while I traveled (via a hostel, plus on a subway) have remained in touch. So idk.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Yes I agree, primary reason and I often underestimated that. And so after 1 year you’ve found a friend or a partner in China?
DatingYella@reddit
I found a girlfriend by accident. It lasted about two years. Around the end I really didn’t see a strong reason to stay professionally in China or socially (I very rarely got to connect with anyone) so I left for the US again.
Thats not before I visited my gf in Europe where she was studying for 2-3 months. I really liked my experience and I’m trying to figure out how to go there.
Fiona-eva@reddit
Yes, one of three main reasons I am leaving Canada, although I have found a relationship but he is French and we both want out of here.
Vadoc125@reddit
I have no friends at home either (mostly by choice, I'm quite asocial), so what difference does it make lol
yoloswaghashtag2@reddit
Yeah, I feel like this is the biggest reason why I don't mind moving abroad. Most people seem to say they regret it because they miss their friends/family back home, but all my friends/family live far away from me already so figure it's a good time to go.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Yes but you never wanted it to change? At least when it comes to relationship? I’ve been quite asocial as well before and I don’t need much people in my life however sometimes I wish things were different for me
Vadoc125@reddit
Regarding relationships I can let you know in 1-2 years lol. I wasn't in the proper headspace for a relationship lately due to reasons that I don't want to go into without doxxing myself. Hopefully that will change soon, let's see. Yeah, sometimes I wish I wasn't alone but that's only like 20% of the time. The moment that crosses 50% I guess I will post about it on Reddit and also ask for advice haha.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
As you get older this % increases so learn from other people’s mistakes 😂 and all the best to you !
2catspbr@reddit
I think you're thinking about it too much ☺️ overthinking is never good, trust me when I say either you're gonna do it and it'll be good for u or you're gonna find out that it's not for u. Everyone around me thought I was gonna be back within months but now it's been 20 years. Everything can be surprising
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Maybe, I guess it’s just overwhelming to see how time flies and nothing changes. I really don’t want to believe that everywhere we go, we bring ourselves because I saw with my own eyes how drastically life has changed for many people here but not for me 😔. That’s when I started to think as if this is some God’s sign I keep missing. People pay attention to me, but very superficially, they just look at me and that's it
KindForestEagle@reddit
Honestly I think you shouldn't listen to the comment above. Your worries are absolutely valid especially if you are female and your time to start a family is limited. I decided to return to my home country because of this. If having a family is your goal you should work on it and not let the time slip. Especially if you don't think that the mentality of the people where you live isn't compatible with yours.
rainbowsent@reddit
I found out this last week that my road has ended in attempting to have a child. Unfortunately, the country I reside in does not support adoption greatly, due to historic issues. While I am not GLAD to see there are others like me, I am glad to see the decision I am making to move home is not alone. If I cannot have a family of my own and that road is a dead end, I'd rather be close to my personal family and friends.
2catspbr@reddit
Of course I think her concerns and worries are valid. My point was not only focusing on that to the point of inaction. Going abroad isn't an exact science, and there's such variety of countries out there that a lot of westerners give it a chance once with only one country and if that one country and one city doesn't fit then they think oh, this isn't for me and go back to their unhealthy but familiar home environment. I've lived in 4 different countries in 20 years and traveled to 16 more and seen a lot of people in a lot of different situations that fit and don't fit them. I've seen people give up too quickly and I've seen people in some country for too long and never move, even though they know they should. That's why I say that like going abroad is like the guy who reads and reads and reads about how to talk to women but then never actually talks to women and then says oh, I've tried nothing and stressed about everything and nothing is working. At some point u just have to get out there and do it and experience it and figure out if it's for you or not. Otherwise instead of trying it out and taking the leap they just let it eat away at their soul.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Thank you. For a long time, I thought that this was the only area of my life that I could not control or make it happen, and so I waited, worked, and forgot about it. But over time, I realize that bad decisions and indecision in general do play a role in whether you will have your own family or not.
2catspbr@reddit
U seem to me like someone who has confidence issues (possibly due to your environment), but u know let me tell u a story. When I was living in china I was there for many years and could speak Chinese by then. I was taking a weekend in Seoul, and met this really gorgeous Chinese girl who unlike most Chinese, actually had a body and curves. I mention this because in china, curvy women aren't looked at like we look at them, as desirable. She was telling me that when she was in china that men would treat her as obese, and Chinese can be very cruel to obese people, because they think oh, u gave me anxiety, now anything I do or say won't be my fault (this happened to me personally too), but imagine a girl growing up in that environment and how it would affect her confidence, self esteem, body image, like everything. She took a vacation to Korea and didn't even think about it, but when she was there all of a sudden all these black and Latino foreigners started paying attention to her, calling her beautiful and sexy and lots of positive attention for the first time in her life. Of course at first she thought hey they must be pitying me or playing a joke on me but it kept happening over and over. She said it was so surprising when she'd be at a bar and those handsome men would walk right past girls she'd consider beautiful and sexy and give them no attention and go straight to her and give her all the attention and smiles. For the first time in her life she wasn't an object of ridicule or disgust. Her self confidence went up, her body image went up, her self esteem went up. Everything about her life improved for her. She decided immediately that she never wanted to go home, and from then on she was much happier and mentally healthier. I think the same could happen to u, for whatever reasons, just the changes of environment would improve your life.
Gilgamesh-Enkidu@reddit
Strange reason to leave a country in my opinion. Those things can be changed. You can find friends, partners, etc anywhere in the world. What is or isn’t a deal breaker for me are the things that can’t be changed. If you hate the culture of the place, way of life, and/or the weather. There is nothing you can do about it except be miserable. I’d rather not be miserable. But finding friends…that can be difficult or easy no matter where you live.
A solution is to join events, groups, learn new hobbies, etc. You gotta put in some effort here.
Big-Importance-7239@reddit
I find myself in this situation right now. After 12 years in a cold distant country, I find myself with no relationship or friends. It is really hard to accept that despite all my efforts, I wasn't able to build the life I wanted, all I have here is my job and it is not enough. I feel depressed, lonely and tired with life. I don't think I have the energy to move anywhere else, and going back home is not an option.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Yes, it was just a job for me. I used to have a relationship at home and I was unemployed. I've always wondered how people are so lucky to have both a job and a personal life, because for me, these basic things in life seem like wining a lottery. I don’t have anything cheerful to say, just sending you a hug
Guilty-Milk-607@reddit
Most of the so called cold countries are usually just racist. And the reason you feel isolated is because the native population hates your guts.
I left Germany due to that, moved to North America and settled in Gulf. Doing much better financially and mentally. But first you need to admit my first two sentences to yourself. Germans are for example pretty warm towards each other and other "aryan" races. They are only cold to those they consider as inferior. After you realize this, you can realize there is nothing wrong with you and it is the way it is and move to a better country. Their tolerance is fake, behind closed doors they plan your extermination, the party that openly plans to exterminate third generation immigrants in Germany gets the second most votes with around 20% support, this should be a wake up call to most people.
But if you keep saying they are just "cold" you'll blame yourself for not "integrating" or working hard enough. The truth is German is a race, you are either born one or not and if you are not born one you'll get treated like shit for the rest of your life so there is no point in working hard and paying taxes to people who hate your guts, just move on, there is nothing wrong with you.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
I agree because I saw many good professionals leave Germany and some well educated people couldn’t extend their visas and were forced to leave, while unemployed and uneducated people seems like stay here easily 😐 However, there are still foreigners that find their luck in Germany whether it is friends or a significant other (although here I must admit that in most cases their soulmate is also a foreigner but not 100%).
Guilty-Milk-607@reddit
Visa extension is never an issue for me personally, however appointments are terrible and you have to wait inside Germany and can't travel while waiting for a decision unless you go there and beg for a fiktionsbescheinigung, even then its problematic because you can get a letter while you are abroad its very stressful for no reason apart from the fact they don't tell you your appointment date online, but only per snail mail.
Yeah you can live pretty well in Germany but why bother when you can make more money and be happier quicker in another country, you are wasting too much time and effort there. With half the effort you spend in Germany you could be a millionaire in US easily.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Has your personal/social (partner and or friends) life improved since moving too?
Guilty-Milk-607@reddit
Kind of, i never had that kind of issues in Germany too i just left because the salary was too low, services were too bad and people i liked got treated pretty bad (not me).
Dating is much easier in NA if that's what you are asking
KindForestEagle@reddit
I decided to move back to my home country exactly for this reason. I moved abroad as a teenager with my parents and struggled to connect with local people extremely. During my teenage years I was just slightly jealous of other girls having boyfriends but after I turned 20, I started panicking that I will never find a partner and end up like an old cat lady. Although I'm highly educated, having a family one day is extremely important to me and I didn't want to compromise on this. Luckily soon I met a man from my home country and moved/returned there with him. It has been two years now and I still think it was the best decision in my life. No ammount of money and "cool experiences" abroad can replace having someone who genuinely loves and supports you.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
I had same fear in my 20s and still do and same thoughts about family. I never realised I so much wanted to go abroad to find somebody and I never realised I actually could be happy at home if I had somebody. God luck to you ❤️
friends_in_sweden@reddit
I moved to Sweden from the US and I have a fairly busy social life. I think it is much better than it would be in the US, to be honest. Many of my friends there seem quite isolated, especially those who spent their 20s really working on their careers.
I made my friends from a combination of work and studying, and the closest cluster tends to be friends from studying. I think there is a big difference between people who come here to work vs people who have worked and studied.
It took a long time to build, and also required a lot of work on my end (learning Swedish, figuring out the social code, etc.). No guarantees for anyone but my personality and temperament often fits with Swedish social culture (but I also get annoyed with and frustrated from it!)
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
How long it took you to build relationship/friendship here?
I agree on the work and study difference.
Apprehensive-Cap6063@reddit
I am currently in Luxembourg and I feel this every fucking day. The people I am calling friends are people I really don’t like hanging with because they’re just not people I like. However, to avoid loneliness I do. I am currently urgently looking to get out but sadly the job market is very cold.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
I know, hanging out with people you don’t really like or find interesting is so emotionally draining.
Vadoc125@reddit
Are you looking at the job market only in Luxembourg or open to moving elsewhere within the EU?
Apprehensive-Cap6063@reddit
Elsewhere in Europe. Bigger cities.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
I live in a "cold and distant" country, and in a rural area to boot and it suits me. But I have a wife and 2 kids.
Morgenseele@reddit (OP)
Yes, I also don’t require that much. For me my own family would be enough too😊
Batgod629@reddit
Depends but I probably would consider it for sure
dallyan@reddit
I’m in that boat. No relationship and not really in a good place career-wise. I’m just waiting for my son to be of age and get my citizenship and then I’m moving back home.
Dmytro_North@reddit
Yes!!! I am doing just that partially. Originally from Eastern Europe, lived in Vancouver Canada for 5 years, then spent some time in Spain and dating was night and day there! Plus other lifestyle factors made me feel entirely different. Planning to move there. Decided to give Montreal a try and found it also to be very good in terms of dating and social life. Humans are extremely social beings we literally shorten our lives by living in loneliness and isolation.
coolblob3@reddit
For me yes. I do have a relationship (he’s not from here) and live in one of those cold and distant countries.
I started having mental health issues this year which a therapist deduced was due to lack of community.
I have certain things I’m really attached to here so not sure I could have easily made the choice myself, but after a little visa hiccup we have decided it’s a sign to move on.
I’m scared and sad about leaving but remembering the struggles I often felt when feeling disconnected here, I think I will likely be happy once I’m settled in the new place.
0x18@reddit
I basically lost all my friends when moving across states back in the US, so not having any friends in the Netherlands isn't any different from the last several years.
lampapalan@reddit
Yes, I am leaving here knowing barely anyone. I do plan to go back home
Extension_Canary3717@reddit
Me personally no, I come from a warm people who can’t stop being glued to each other and I crave the opposite, my best friend in the world I can go months without a single word and than have a nice good conversation, and personally I feel recharged when alone and the opposite when with people.
But that’s one take, yours may be different and wanting to be around isn’t some kind of flaw, the only problem real problem here is , if you can change to a place where you are not miserable , Do it ! Why doesn’t mean much if the outcome is you having a better life