Remember that time Pokemon had a rival team that were all about pointing this out
Then instead of properly engaging with the dilemma you reach the end of the game and their leader goes "HAHA ACTUALLY I AM GONNA CREATE SUPER SLAVERY INSTEAD OF DOING ABOLITION"
yeah
>Remember that time Pokemon had a rival team that were all about pointing this out
Besides it's not slavery because Pokémon want to be with their trainers and fight for them.
Yeah. That's the explanation they went with.
which is also weird because pokemon have been shown to have human or even higher than human intelligence. They also attack you in the wild but instantly become obedient once caught with a pokeball so it does seem kind of like the pokeball "makes" them obedient to you.
They don't become instantly obedient. That's only a mechanic in the games for simplicity's sake, in the lore pokemon are stubborn all the time and literally in the first episode of the anime Ash's Pikachu chose not to go back into it's ball and deliberately ignored Ash constantly. I mean it's still slavery but there's nothing stopping the pokemon from fighting back
>That's only a mechanic in the games for simplicity's sake
there's also the mechanic in the (early) games whereby a pokemon can refuse to listen to your commands if it has a higher level than your badge allows to command. it never really applies, as you have to hardcore grind in order to reach the cap before getting a new badge but it still enables pokemon to have their own mind.
It applied if you received traded Pokemon which gained XP faster than normally caught ones. When I was younger I had both Red and Blue; Red being my “permanent” version and Blue being the omega I could reset and play over and over to train up Pokemon. I always just traded the team I ultimately wanted to end up with to my character at the start of the game and frequently would quickly end up with monsters that did not give a fuck about what my commands were.
I tell you hwat, if them slaves don't wanna be no more slaves then they can just go. So long as they can run fast enough to escape the dogs and the beatings, hell, I say they earned it. But until they realize they can they won't.
This comparison would make sense if you ignore the fact that Pokemon are 1000x stronger than any human. Unless it's a *literal* worm, it can fight back. In this universe there are rocks with arms that can cause earthquakes.
I seem to recall some shit about all Pokemon inherently wanting to become stronger, and recognising that working with a trainer is the best way to do that. Pokemon that either don't respect their trainer (Ash's Charizard) or don't accept the premise of this deal in the first place (Mewtwo) are uncontrollable and basically free to do as they wish.
>Pokemon inherently wanting to become stronger
Yeah there's a bunch of Dex Entries about Pokemon fighting amongst themselves and other Pokemon in an effort to become stronger.
>That's only a mechanic in the games for simplicity's sake
There's so much sh*t like this in Pokemon. The lore says things should be a certain way, but the game kinda disregards it mechanically in favor of gameplay. For example there exists multiple of many legendaries but, you can only get one per game so that you have to trade to get more.
>That's only a mechanic in the games for simplicity's sake
In the recent games, especially. In GB Pokémon versions, you had pretty strict badge requirements to control them.
Generally speaking enemy trainers have gotten way way better since those days (the gen 2 rival's team is so comically shit lmao) but the tools available to the player have improved even more
Only for Pokemon you did not catch yourself. If for whatever reason you managed to level up a Pokemon to max level from the beginning they will still obey you, if only out of respect for the grindset.
But what's crazy is that in the pokemon games the lore is that humans are supposed to work hand in hand together in harmony, but like we very rarely see that. Like we have the machines movers, for example.
But in game, all we can engage in are battles and contests
That moment when the villain is making too much sense so the winters have him kill some orphans on screen to make sure the audience knows he's actually a bad guy and that nobody should engage with his points.
Ghetsis didn't care about Pokemon though. He was just a cult leader and saw that as a way to gain followers. Some of his team gameplay wise even fits with him being particularly fucked towards his pokemon. Straight up psycho
Like his Hydreigon having Frustration which is a move that gets stronger the more your pokemon actually HATES you
Or that theory that Ghetsis' burnt face scar was from his mistreatment of his own Hydreigon
Damn
Yeah lmao, Pokemon is a kids game and you've got adults on here missing the *slightly* complex storytelling here and believing the main villain was good and they just "randomly" made him dive into the deep end.
Cult leaders don't practice what they preach. Kool-Aid guy didn't drink, he chose to get shot in the head and avoid the pain and suffering.
Ghetsis encouraged people to give up their Pokemon so that *he*/Team Plasma were the only ones with Pokemon. His speeches were lies and theatrics to encourage public discussion and sway them. You're shown this not even 30mins later when two Grunts assault a Moona so that it releases dream mist. Ghetsis's team even consists of an underdeveloped Hydreigon that uses a max-power Frustration attack (meaning it evolved too soon and *hates* his trainer).
It was *N* that truly believed that Pokemon should be given the choice whether to stay by their trainer or not.
BW2 even goes further with this by having Plasma split into two groups - Those that followed N and those that followed Ghetsis. Guess which ones were the bad guys?
> villain is making too much sense so the winters have him kill some orphans on screen to make sure the audience knows he's actually a bad guy
You mean like Amon from Legend of Korra?
Yeah, Ghetsis was gonna make sure he was the only person left with any Pokemon so that he could rule with an iron fist and basically treat people like Pokemon, just toys to order around.
Anime tends to do that.
Persona 5 has a moment in a side quest where the main villain for that mission calls out the Phantom Thieves for essentially playing morality police, forcibly changing people’s personality in the name of a justice only they are the judges of.
Their response is “shut up”. Then they beat him up and forcibly change his personality.
Persona 3 is my favourite largely because it actually lives up to its own themes and morals. In 4 especially it is so jarring how the shadow party members will reveal some significant taboo hidden side of the character's personality, and the solution to the character's anxiety about this pretty much every damn time is to keep repressing their feelings to a socially acceptable minimum. Fuck you, back in the cage, pretty much every time.
Ehh I’m pretty leery of saying that Pokemon are slaves, because there is a lot of evidence in the series that prove otherwise. If Pokemon were naturally evolved animals then maybe, but all evidence points to the fact that they seem to be divinely designed specifically to form partnerships with humans in a symbiotic sense.
Now, there are definitely cases where this partnership can degrade into a master-slave relationship, but for the vast majority I don’t believe that to be the case, especially since by and large that appears to be socially stigmatized in-universe. In most cases where the human is abusive, Pokemon either lash back at them or ignore the “social contract” between humans and Pokemon, basically disobeying orders or even leaving entirely. Even villains in the series are usually depicted as having fairly close relationships with their Pokemon, with exceptions like Ghetsis being pretty rare.
Now, these elements become a bit more muddy when you examine things like Pokemon breeding, but overall while I do believe that Pokemon take up a sort of “subordinate” role in most Pokemon-human relationships this is not slavery. The same way working under boss in a company is not slavery, as it is a transactional relationship that can benefit both sides, even if a bad boss might make it seem like it is at times.
Unironically Palworld is basically indistinguishable from the lore for Pokemon.
They just ran with it instead of ignoring it.
https://gamerant.com/most-horrifying-pokedex-entries-pokemon-games/#cacturne
I had a cheat on my Action Replay that let me catch trainers in Pokémon Diamond. The slavery exists. Game Freak just doesn't want you to know about it.
_"What do you mean Pokémon battles are illegal now?! Our country doesn't have functional roads, how does the government even enforce that?! Hey, HEY! DON'T TOUCH ME! I WANT A LAWYER! I HAVE YOUR BADGE NUMBER!"_
The Pokémons you catch canonically wants to live with humans those who don't just chill in nature while those who do attacks you in tall grass to test your worth.
Which is why you can only capture the Pokémons that goes out of their way to fight you and can't just actually hunt or something.
If that were true master ball wouldnt work. Also theres safari zone where you cath without any combat and SV added that you can see pokemon in the overworld so you can in fact hunt them.
Most pokemon can easily kill a human if they feel threatened. And if they were normal animals they would
But pokemon are shown to be intelligent. Those that show up in the wild do so intentionally to either
A) test their mettle
B) They want to be captured. But the trainer must prove himself capable first.
The master ball breaks all of this.
But if i’m remembering correctly you usually get the master ball from the villains (at least in the early generations, I haven’t played the later gens).
But yeah, pokemon isn’t exactly known for its consistant lore.
Neither of this change anything. The Pokémons you catch with the Master Ball still goes out of their way to fight you, and so does those in the Safari Zone. Safari Zones don't have actual fights but they're still a test of worth since you still have to struggle catching them. Even in the SV Overworld it's technically the Pokémon that starts the fight the second you walk in front of him ( even though gameplay wise you're the one trying to catch him obviously )
It's been canon in the lore since nearly two decades now ( Diamond and Pearl were released 18 years ago ) that Pokémons only live and fight with humans because they want to, that they present themselves in the tall grass for humans, and that if they didn't wanted to they'd hide and isolate in the nature or just fucking start killing humans.
There's a difference between slavery and having a friend my guy. As I said the Pokémons that don't want to live with humans just don't and those who do fight you to see if you're worth capturing them.
I’ve been doing it all wrong all this time. No wonder getting friends are hard. I just need to beat someone up and capture them into a magic ball, then they’ll want to be my friend.
I still have yet to understand the comments of "This is a wake up call for GameFreak". Makes no sense at all. GameFreak doesn't care to produce a quality product they have drooling fans that will buy anything with the Pokemon name on it. The quality can be as low as it gets, buggy as it gets (which it did) and still have record sales. It's not a GameFreak problem, is a consumer problem.
Hear me out:
Okay so I’m a Pokémon fan, I have bought JUST ABOUT every version at one point.
I like competitive battles. Singles and doubles. As odd as it sounds to someone who doesn’t play, there is a level of skill that really really goes into the turn based battle system.
Right now, with all the stupid gimmicks game freak have attempted in Pokémon, and this one can just plain look stupid, it’s actually the best concept they’ve ever had. I’m impressed. It’s balanced. Can be used offensively or defensively, and it isn’t a win button considering it can be used against you. It’s not complicated either.
It is a buggy game, they should be ashamed but it’s not unplayable. I’m actually having fun. Competitive battles have never been better. The regulation F that’s going on now has got to be the best that Pokémon has ever been. There’s no “best” Pokémon. Everything has a counter. There’s strong Pokémon, but if you know your shit you can just embarrass people who try to put “meme teams” together.
I don't know much since I'm an outsider that really hates the sound of competitive pokemon, but it sounds more like getting perfect EVs/IVs, which is a nightmare RNG grind fest, so I have to assume most people are probably cheating and it's an open secret.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm right, then man, pokemon sucks even more. You have to either cheat or grind to get perfect mons before you can even engage with the debatably fun comp scene (Which I'd argue doesn't look very fun to play or watch)
I think legendaries are still kinda prominent, but I'm not sure if I'd say legendary spam, since I still see some normal mons on comp teams. My problem is mostly just the EVs/IVs and comp sounding boring.
I respect the talent and skill that comp pokemon takes, but unfortunately, the gameplay just isn't for me, my brain is very smooth and petite
For those that just want easy access to easy comp pokemon gameplay, showdown is absolutely the way to go, but I do still think that the EVs/IVs are still a problem, since showdown does look worse, and isn't official. The big tournaments usually just use the base game.
Gen 9 singles has been one of the most controversial formats in recent memory among competitive players. The power creep is so insane that long time staples are no longer viable and the game is about who can get their gimmick off first. Doubles may be another story, I don't keep up with VGC, but as for singles it has definitely been better in the past. Give gen 3 OU a try sometime, it's a far deeper experience imo.
Game freak have definitely been following the trend of gearing their games towards vgc, a lot of moves have been doubles focused, the last two regional gimmicks (tera and dynamax) are much better geared towards doubles than singles. The main problem with VGC right now is that urshifu and flutter mane are way overtuned compared to most of the rest of the format, it's basically mandatory to run one, both or at least counters to them (especially urshifu) to do well, it doesn't help that on ladder with closed team sheet it's impossible to tell which urshifu your opponent has ahead of time.
Crazy how people are praising this game so much even though it looks like an amalgamation of every early-access survival game out there. Just goes to show how little effort Gamefreak would need to put in to make an actual good Pokemon game
Idk PalWorld is super addictive yes it is an amalgamation of features but it works it doesn’t feel forced, it’s got legitimately strong gameplay and more content than most survival games.
It has a good gameplay loop. It taps into the OSRS / New World model of always feeling like there's things you need to be doing, "no xp waste" if you will
new world could have been a 3d runescape if they did it right, but I didn't feel like paying rent to some clan in a game just like people have to do in real life, could have had player built cities and stuff, they didn't know what they were doing unfortunately, felt like a soulless mmo made by ppl who've never played an mmo
Agreed, I put around 350 hours into new world, but I put so much more into my guild than I got out of it. Basically became a social clique and if you weren't one of the terminally online weirdos then you got no help from anyone else. So much potential wasted
I've been playing it way too much, and it's hard to stop. It's buggy, and certain things like assigning work to pals in my base can get quite frustrating, but fuck am I having a great time.
Do a bit of farm. Fly around exploring while the slaves make ingots/gunpowder/cement/ammo/spheres. Breed some pals, incubate some eggs. Go kill some bosses. Do a bit of farm again.
Such a satisfying gameplay loop, imo.
Good gameplay but good lord is it janky.
The UI feels like I'm using a windows 95 program. There are actual buttons in the UI where the text label spills out of the button lol.
Aren't most successful games just an amalgamation or a straight up copy of some other games? League is just DOTA. Apex is PUBG with heroes. You could argue that Breath of the Wild borrows heavily from Skyrim or plenty of even older open world RPGs. The complaint that it copies other games just feels disingenuous.
I would argue that Apex/PUBG and BotW/Skyrim are both wildly different games in the same genre... BotW drew inspiration from Dark Souls, and then Elden Ring drew inspiration from BotW, but absolutely nothing I mentioned could even be considered a "copy" they're all way too different in terms of story, mechanics, environment, everything honestly. Palworld is absolutely a slapped together pile of assets based on other games looks, mechanics, and style. it's brutally obvious, but at least it's put together in a way that's playable and provides the player with a working experience.
are you telling me that two developers are not able to play each other's games and enjoy them to the point where one inspires the other, and then that game inspired the first in return?
are you telling me you don't understand how to read/have the reading comprehension of a 2nd grader?
are you really saying that one open world game inspired them when there have been hundreds of open world games to that point? "oh no my one favrit game is inspiration of course!"
[try to practice your reading comprehension some more buddy.](https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-director-hidetaka-miyazaki-influenced-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-elder-scrolls-witcher-3) you've decided to be a dick instead of actually understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that Palworld is not an original work "inspired by" something else, it's a knockoff. the games I mentioned were inspired by eachother but wildly different original ideas. Palworld is not.
article you linked references, in the title, two other games it was influenced by in addition to BOTW you absolute fucking potato
what is it a copy of? is it a copy of ark? pokemon? botw? or an amalgamation of all of them? you don't even know the definition of knockoff. sit down kid
you literally answered your own question. and that's exactly what I'm saying. all these games share DNA and are unique. Palworld is a copy of Ark and Pokemon with mechanics ripped from BotW too. it is a copy. the games mentioned are not. for all your brash ranting about reading comprehension you really are severely lacking aren't you?
I’ll step into the defense here.
https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-director-hidetaka-miyazaki-influenced-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-elder-scrolls-witcher-3#
yes...? I can't remember who said what because it was back when Elden Ring released, but I remember one of the game design leads of BotW saying that he had always loved FromSoft games and wanted to incorporate some of the epic feeling fights and risk/reward in the combat. Then years later when Elden Ring released, Hidetaka Miyazaki said that he had loved BotW and played a ton of it and wanted to take some of the open world aspects and feeling of wonder and bring it into one of their games
The complaint is that Palworld seems like a super low effort survival crafting game with a Pokémon mechanic slapped on.
It's not a good game, but it's praised as one, and I unironically think it's because zoomers are brain dead and think anything open-world is good.
Palworld is the DCEU to Pokémon's MCU. Both suck, but in different ways.
A large map doesn't mean a game is good, and it's obviously not a basic game considering it's a crafting game that clearly requires material gathering and whatnot.
It can still be a low effort rehash of the same mechanics found in countless other games like Ark or Rust.
It's mind boggling that people genuinely think this is what Pokémon should be. It's like someone made a standalone game of that Pokémon Minecraft mod
People aren't saying what Pokemon should be. People are saying what Pokemon can be so much if this game was developed by a small team. And trust me this game is so much better them ARK (especially ark 2). Also, I don't see how it's low effort when the developers actually put in things that people actually enjoy. Just look at the call of duty franchise if you really want low effort.
There are definitely a very large portion of Palworld fans who are saying this is what Pokémon should have been.
And it's not low effort? Really? The Pal designs are slightly altered versions of Pokémon. Lamball is just straight up Wooloo lmao
I don't know why people constantly bring up Lamball in comparison to Wooloo because of all the easy knock offs they're fairly distinct in designs to the point one's bipedal and the others a quadreped for one, they're both just regular sheep with no gimmick besides being a cute sheep. Not exactly a design concept unique to pokemon.
If you think is low effort then let me see you making a game with a small team. I really love to see you develop a "low effort" lol. Sure I think it's basically a rip-off pokemon but I wouldn't say it's low effort
That's the craziest part, they clearly have the resources to put every other game studio to absolute shame, yet they budget like they're always recovering from a big flop
I still have hope that Pokémon fans could ever understand that Palworld doing good might end up being beneficial for them, even if the game is more of a frankesteined Ark than an actual Pokémon. Probably won’t since they’re only getting ridiculed and they aren’t touching their sales, which is what GF is all about.
A monopoly is not when one brand does better than the others. That's just business.
Pokemon has had competitors since the start with Digimon, which has continued to this day. If anything, between Temtem, Cassette Beasts, Nexomon and whatever all those mobile spin off games are the genre has never had as much competition and yet Pokemon still sets records.
digimon sucks, its like robots or something instead of animals, temtem was apparantly trying to be a cash grab MMO instead of a good game, i dont think theyve had any real competition yet, but i'm glad they made LOA, i'll be happy to play an open world pokemon game after decades of slop
I know it’s not true, but I really want to imagine the Nintendo execs gathered around discussing how to sue palworld but one of the guys is like “hold on guys the game is fun” and they all download it and have a good time.
Except the game series are literally only meant as advertisement. Additionally, it's a yearly release. Pokemon isn't meant to be good. It's meant to sell to dumb children and advertise for movies and merch.
Hopefully, the devs of Palworld don't miss out on the opportunity to earn some more from the side through this approach.
A competitor is needed for Pokemon to get good.
I just find it hilarious that the first game thats really come close to competing with Pokémon in God knows how many years is this fucking game. Like, its so different in every way compared to Pokémon and has these absurd mechanics like sweatshops and using your pals as weapons ammunition and giving your pals assault rifles and capturing other humans and yet its the closest we've gotten to a competitor in a long time. The only similarity the two games have is you use spheres to trap animals into doing your bidding.
Really goes to show just how cornered Pokémon has the market. I love the level of absurdity Palworld brought with it to compete.
Pokemon is dominant but it's nowhere near a monopoly. Megami Tensei is almost ten years older and is one of the best selling JRPG franchises of all time.
Man, I just want an Open World Multiplayer Game like Pokemon Go minus the movement and on console. You explore a massive world with your friends, have your own adventure and events, meet other players and challenge them, fight for the control of your local gym, etc.
That’s a certified success if done right.
I remember an awesome fan game about 10 years back called Pokemon generations. Got a really fun tech demo and then bam DMCA.
Imagine all the cool things we could have if Nintendo just let fans do things. Or, alternatively, if Gamefreak had more ambition and technical skill.
There is a game literally called PokeMMO tbh its just the first 5 generations of pokemon where you can see other players in game and interact with them
Square Enix made World of Final Fantasy which is literally Pokémon with a final fantasy skin, it’s probably is the formula of collecting and evolving that makes it so fun, I haven’t played a Pokémon game in probably a decade because I don’t care enough to buy a Nintendo console so that game scratched a long dormant itch
As a pokemon fan, this.
Show them that a fun game is all that matters and new things arent bad. Try new things and if they fail learn from it. Do spinoff games for new mechanics you want to try out first before implementing into main games.
Hell cmon take inspiration and make pokemon better!
Palworld isnt even a real competitor, its way too different but it has lots of fun little things and mechanics that could do so well in a pokemon world for sure.
Just dont turn around and ignore it and make the next game just the same thing again, if i want the same thing again i will replay the ones we already have.
I've played the hacked pokemon red rom where the trainers are harder and you can catch all 150 in the wild easily a dozen times. It's a great game, I don't care about anything newer than pokemon gold.
I play pokemon go cause it makes walking around aimlessly palatable to other people.
Theres a lot of romhacks that are fun.
Theres one that switches your pov around too, where you make a team for an gym leader and then you fight other trainers (non players) to rank up. You are the gym leader and try to get to the top so you are the champion the player usually fights at the end. Cool concept and you can make themed teams too if you want to restrict yourself like the usual leaders/gyms do.
I personally loved gen3, imho it has the best artstyle for pokemon. It is just the most beautiful pixel art game ive ever seen really. And it works so well for pokemon. Its peak pokemon. Which includes fire red/leafgreen
(Also the Base system in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald was awesome and fun af when you swapped bases with a friend and you could fight your friends team whenever you wanted in your world!) :D
Exactly. Nintendo and game freak are going to have to respond to this and make something better. Palworld is what legends Arceus could have been and now the world knows it
Why would they have too? Pokémon is one of, if not the, biggest video game franchise in the world. They could release a game that's just a black screen and it would still sell. I doubt this will make a wave in Nintendo or Game Freak
You are expecting the same people who keep buying the same Nintendo-slop for over 28 years now every 2 years to realize that other companies being successful could be positive for them?
Pokecucks accepting that the game they played 15 years ago isn't the same as the shitty buggy mess that they keep releasing and buying 2 versions of the same game? Never.
The are biggest flags in gaming.
GF don't give a fuck. As you say, the children and weird adults that buy pokemon every few years are still going to buy it.
Why is everyone so obsessed over these two games fighting, holy shit
Gameplay wise they're not even remotely the same genre, liking one more won't make one of them worse
People are obsessed because gamefreak/pokemon company did non innovate in pretty much 15 years while also charging over 70 bucks for half done games with ps2 looking textures where you have to buy TWO dlc to gain access to All the pokemon.
People want gamefreak to step up, their monopoly made them lazy and they milked the cow for decades. Now a contender entered the ring.
It feels the same as people making up a feud between Metal Gear Solid and Call of Duty because they're both games with guns and soldiers. It doesn't matter if it shares some kind of superficial appearance similarities, they're completely different in gameplay and design.
I disagree
Immagine there was call of duty and absolutely no other shooter on the market. So over the years the releases got more and more disappointing because the studio got lazy.
And then, all of a sudden, a new shooter with gameplay options that fans of call of duty dreamed off for years comes out of nowhere.
If people expect GF to change the basic formula and gameplay of Pokemon because "innovation" when the two most recent games are the biggest selling in franchise history they're delusional. They change sometimes with stuff like PLA, but they were never going to make Palworld. This is like yelling at a baker for using eggs to make brownies when they could have made you breakfast.
Gamefreak adapted the past two games the worst way possible. The bugs are atrocious, the grafics are on early ps2 level, they pay walled over 50% of the existing pokemon off, making it impossible to complete your pokedex.
The storrywriting is worse than ever. The 3d animations are horrid.
Sword and shield and scarlet and violet are the worst example of regurgitated and lazy updating on an existing ip ever.
People asked for innovation in the pokemon ip for over two decades. And what we got are sandwiches and a motorbike lizard.
I'm not excusing performance issues and bugs, I'm saying they don't have any reason to change game genres, which is what making Palworld would be doing. I'd much rather Pokemon make Pokemon games and other companies make Palworld, otherwise we would just have a Game Freak-made Palworld
I hope this is satire because buddy, the euro is worth more than the dollar and has been for about 20 years...
It's about $6.5m USD to anyone else reading this and curious what it's actually worth in USD.
It’s truly a shame to see someone falling for such blatant European propaganda. I took €100 to a baseball game here in the states, and they literally told me it was worthless to them. I just burned it in my trash pile later that week
Is that not obvious?? I'm not going to pay for purchases in the UK with USD or EUR either. I would pay with GBP *because I'm in the fucking UK*.
It's a lot of unnecessary hassle exchanging money, especially as a business because you typically also pay a % fee on currency conversions, so if this business accepted your 100 EUR it's both extra effort and a loss of money for them.
I don't think the entire forex marketplace is lying to you in some crazy conspiracy purely to make you believe the euro is worth more than the dollar, does that not sound kind of insane to you?
Yeah, when someone says a game was developed on a shoestring budget, I’m thinking more along the lines of Minecraft which was made by like 4 people for a good chunk of the early development.
For a 5 year development with 40 man team thats 2.5k/month/dev thats ignoring any amount of tax mind you.
But the 40 you mentioned where additional hires.
So it was over 40 all together who took money from that 6mill$.
Sry but for a full on 5 year~ development for over 40 people tax included. And location cost, water, electricity, equipment/replacement equipment...
They can be lucky it was made in japan where workers are cheap, you wouldnt be able to do that in america let alone countries where the chef has to pay double your salary pretax because of insurance, healthcare and so on like it is where i live.
Not to mention leader roles get higher pay outs so its even less for the average developer in there.
Also dont forget i didnt even try to calculate any non dev employees into this and stuff like marketing cost which is about 25-50% of the budget depending on the plans.
Smaller indie games usually do less but even a 10-15% of the budget being cut with all the other unmentioned cost..
That is seriously close to poketchange for such a thing.
And im sure i still forgot some costs...
Probably forgetting money too. 5 year development cycle means multiple funding rounds I'm sure.
But it's super cool that they didn't know shit about making games. It's like how Goldeneye had a bunch of people who'd worked in movies and other fields on the development team.
What happens is you have talented people who don't know what's not capapble because they've never done it before. Leads to interesting stuff, or in the case of Goldeneye just straight up breakthroughs.
I'm less bullish on Palworld since it's 90% arc with some fucking pokemon sprinkeld in. It's like they reskinned an existing game and modded it with some goofy animals.
Another thing to be pointed out is that the team didn't consist of 40 members from the beginning, the team grew as the scope of the project grew. But we don't know much about the details, so it would be pretty impossible to estimate how that affected the budget.
In 2 year they grew to about 30 members and kept getting bigger from there to 40-50~ not including outside sources.
I mean we could calculate a estimation but even with "only" 30 devs including all other costs its quite a low amount of money on such a project considering they didnt know shit about gamemaking and still dont know some terms of it haha
This wasnt an "efficient" production by any means for sure
Good for them for succeeding tho. Guess it was worth it to them at the end :D
Basically yes, but to be fair their currency has different value to usd so its not a 1:1 comparable thing.
GameDevs get paid way to less across the world especially on crunch time sadly.
afaik Japan's ppp actually means things are a bit more expensive there. This isn't like Russia we're talking about here, where people can take home 1k usd a month and be happy with it.
Thats not pocket change at all even if they had 40 employees. For reference, TemTem (another pokemon related game) earned 1 million with their kickstarter which amounted to about 600k euros (after paying kickstarted, their publicity, taxes, etc).
$6m ÷ 5 years = 150k/year
$150k/year ÷ 40 employees (assuming everyone has the same pay) = $3.75k/employee for a year.
$3.75k annual salary/employee ÷ 12 months = $312.50/month
$312.50 Euros = $339.86 USD
The median salary in Japan for 2024 is 3470 USD per month.
They definitely have outside investments for this game, if not this is worse than starvation wages even by Japanese standards. This is not counting taxes, studio rent, facility bills, etc.
you see, the math is just not that simple, as their team grew in size over the duration of the project and you are calculating assuming everyone worked as FTE
[i did some research](https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-japan-the-ultimate-guide#average-salary-for-developer-jobs-in-japan), the average Sw developer salary in japan seems to be ranging from 5-10mio Yen, which is ca. 31k€-62k€
when accounting for the employer's costs, which are ca. 20% (in Germany) we end up with a yearly cost of between 36k-72k per dev. considering that the team grew in size and did not start with 40+ employees. at 72k per employee we get yearly labor costs between 1.44mio € to 2.88mio €.
factoring things such as part time, different seniority levels and more people being hired during the project, this budget of 6mio seems somewhat realistic.
I didn't say (and didn't mean to imply so apologies if that's what it looked like) that 6m was enough to develop the game. I meant that, as initial budget, is way more than most studios have the luxury of working with. They definitely needed the money they got after showing the early access promos a couple years ago, specially since the last development stretch is (usually) the most expensive.
6 million is pocket change for a game of this scope. It is numerous times closer to 0 than it is what it would cost for pretty much any other studio to make the game.
6 million for 40 people across 5 years is fuck all, the fact there’s people out there who believe otherwise is a sign studios are winning the propaganda war against game devs and animators unionizing
They were also shamelessly copying other successful games before they made Palworld. They were trying desperately to land a hit by imitating others.
Game Freak can still suck it though.
It’s also false that they didn’t know basics of development. They were accustomed to Unity game engine and the guy they hired convinced them to switch to Unreal
another proof pokemon fans are the most dumbfucks ever this game is so bad bunch of random assets thrown together just another bad indie early access game
Not really. PUBG, Fall Guys and Among Us were in the exact same boat and noone gives a shit about them anymore. You don't have to do anything crazy to reach the upper popularity slots just luck and advertisement.
"whatever country you are from" implies PUBG is small only in my immediate circle in this case a "country" when in fact that's not true as you said yourself since it's big mostly only in Asia.
As someone who used to be hooked on some of those early access survival games, there is qctual effort put into gameplay flow.
The assets might not all match with a lot of borderline stolen ideas. But I'll be damned if it isn't fun and plays pretty well
palworld fans really speedran being the most annoying people on the internet huh
puts crypto bros to shame with the sheer efficiency of their asisineness
It’s an extremely popular game with a meteoric rise. No shit it’s gonna be spoken about a lot for a lil while. I don’t even play it, but I’m sick of hearing these people with FOMO bitch about it. Just ignore it and move on.
It still only will only sell a fraction of what Pokemon games make. Nintendo isn't sweating over this. I doubt many Pokemon fans are choosing this over buying a Pokemon game.
the best selling pokemon game ever is legends arceus as usually pokemon games are added up with their editions IE. red, blue, green, if you instead look at all these games as separate(which they should be because Nintendo considers them as separate releases.) legends arceus is the best selling Pokemon game of all time and palworld is on track to be that game. pokemon games only seem so untouchable because their editions are added up but if you break it down its much more in the relems of possibility
The CEO: because we wanted money, we decided to make a game that was fun that people would buy
(combines elements of every popular game in the past three years)
Fr, I lost interest when they didn’t even bother to change the shape of the glider you use, like bro that’s just links botw glider and this just your craftopia map with ai generated pokemon running around
Nah. It's basically ark but with pokemon. I didn't like ark because it quite literaly FORCED you to capture dinos to get anything done plus the system was garbage because you'd have to bring them with you and it was ass.
In palworld you pull out your shotgun and actually rip and tear your way through. Catch a cool pal? Just add it to your team and pull it out whenever.
It's the simplicity that gives it a satisfying feel to it. I love being able to shoot the fuckers but I also love summoning my own fucker to eat their ass.
Taming catching transporting is super easy unlike ark. I feel like you have so much more control over the world than most games while also not actually having that much control.
You mean a small team who uses asset flips can create a game? No shit. Look at it from Gamefreaks perspective. They have a multi-million dollar established franchise. Trying to reinvent the wheel completely with this is not the same as a group of amateurs copy/pasting a game together. And the only people I heard shitting on the last few Pokémon games were people who didn’t even play the games at all.
The only thing I don't get is how it's an embarrassment of Game Freak. The game visually doesn't look any better than the average Pokemon game which is the big issues people have with them. Nobody is really shitting on Pokemon for the creature designs and gameplay it's all about visuals and a performance. For all of the praise it gets Palworld didn't really improve on anything that Pokemon lacks. Honestly it feels like the game exploded mostly due to the lack of any co-op games on the market right now that aren't PvP
>The game visually doesn't look any better than the average Pokemon
I play with most settings on low except textures and shadows at medium, the game is by far better looking than the gen 9 games.
The art direction in gen 9 (in my opinion) is more jarring than Palworld. The models for the characters and Pokemon made by Creatures are so much more detailed compared to everything else in the game, stands out like a pristine thumb on a sore hand.
Creatures Inc did a great job on their end, can't say the same for GameFreak.
no, the problem is the gameplay. They have only with Legends arceus made a second pokemon game. Using the same formula for 20 games gets stale real quick.
Palworld's gameplay isn't exactly revolutionarizing either. Their entire gameplay is just Survival & Building Sim but Pokemon, copied from a lot of games in the mentioned genre.
Pixelmon has existed for god knows how long and so have a bunch of other Minecraft mods that are exactly palworld. Even outside of Minecraft, there are plenty of games just like it. It really felt odd how the game got advertised all over my feed for a couple weeks and now everyone is sucking it off for being something Pokémon specifically chooses not to be. It’s probably a decent game, it’s just annoying and weird is all.
You say that, yet it's still the single best selling franchise in the world. Why on earth would they shoot their golden goose? As long as consumers buy Pokemon games and content, there is zero reason for them to innovate.
> The game visually doesn't look any better than the average Pokemon game which is the big issues people have with them
Do you seriously believe this? Scarlet and Violet look like PS2 games and the performance is still absolutely awful.
It might not look AAA end spec.
But compared it pokemon it is far ahead, the fact the pals have more than 2 animations, in fact they have animations for every job task and multiple attack animations.
The game is more polished than the last few Pokemon games while being in Early access and in active development
I mean, it does look visually good and the Pal animations mogs(I hate this word, but this is the only word I can use to define that comparison) pokemon by far. Like really good vs really bad.
Pokemon doesn't even bother with animations at all, but here, we have a whole set of animations and Pal emotions to experience. And this is still the early states of Early access. I can't imagine how good the game is going to get by release.
Literally ripped off a different games assets and hits the top of the steam store.
I'm not gonna simp for GF on this one because they could be a lot more ambitious with the IP, but y'all are cracked and this dev is a crook.
\>makes an embarrassment out of themselves as well by copying IP's
I hate GF and the way they did SV but if palworld doesnt get any consequences from doing this get ready for a bunch of games that just use slightly altered popular characters to boost popularity.
Its a real shame cuz it is quite a fun game esp in multiplayer, reminds me of ark days with the boys
Oh no, the IPs will have to move their asses instead of sitting in the same slop, and releasing an embarrassment every other year.
How will the vidya industry ever recover from this ?
Oh please did you even read my comment? Im all for this being a wake up call for gamefreak and causing them to do better. My gripe is that if nothing happens to palword then other studios will also rip off ip's and that there will be an influx of games that are shitty ripoffs stagnating the industry.
You don’t understand why palword is successful. It works because it fills a huge vacuum that GF failed to fill. If this happens to other franchises, it’s well deserved. There’s a reason Palworld succeeded but craftopia didn’t do nearly as well.
As an owner of craftopia for several years now, it didnt do well because it is even **more** copy and paste than palworld. I remember playing the game on EA launch when only half of it was translated from japanese to English and it was just wildly unfinished concepts put adjacent to each other.
how could you know the \*will\* be shitty? They could come along and shake up the formula, providing a breath of fresh air into an otherwise stale yearly release. If only there was some evidence I could point to that would back up my point....oh wait...
Ok dude, say it isnt shitty. Say gamedev #1 makes a game with kratos in it but his stripe is blue and it is an absolutely amazing game, and is backed by a nice lore because kratos has good lore and so does knock off kratos. Now some gamedev 2# sees kratos, sees the game with knock off kratos and thinks, hmm i had an idea for a game based off of greek/norse mythologies, but i need an iconic character. Oh let me do what gamedev #1 did and make a slightly changed kratos. Now we have two games with basically kratos in them, and though both are good there is fundamentally nothing unique about their story, their design and then everything loses all aspects of uniqueness and every new game that has mythological inspirations now uses kratos in it because thats what will make them money.
Brother first of all, this is an awful lot of speculation you expect me to just buy into but for simplicitys sake sure I'll just play along and agree that your hypothesis happens
You are conflating the idea that mythological=Kratos=money. If there gets to be a point where Kratos starts to saturate the market and it gets stale, people will just stop buying Kratos games.
Look at assassin's creed, pokemon, call of duty, etc. look at all the "innovation" they release with each years typical, money-grabbings shlock. Would you say the answer is for things to continue as is?
No, i completely agree with your final statement and yeah i agree that what i said was a bit strawman-ish
But the way to combat the problem that exists already isnt to rip off the IP's for popularity. If Palworld had been a game with all unique designs, you know like a normal game, it would've been perfect. But they just had to go and make a green cinderace and a black colour lycanroc (that has the exact same model). They could've just made their own designs and have had a nice game thats a unique fusion of survival games like ark and classic creature collectors.
The issue is what this means for game development as a whole and not just for super companies. It is a disgrace to art.
Especially with the whole asset ripping thing and several designs just looking like pokemon got sent through a blender. (Which they likely did, just through an AI model).
This stuff gets noticed for bigger companies and gets played off, it'll be invisible for small ones.
I don't feel bad for the bigger companies at all but it is very concerning for the direction of game dev as a whole.
Just like lol copied dota. Just like uncharted copied Lara. Just like Pokemon copied dragon quest. Are you all regarded and can't understand that inspiration is a part of any art?
Just said this in another comment too. Digimon and Yokai Watch already copied Pokemon many years ago. Temtem did more recently. These people just think Palworld is the first one to try it because they're idiots.
Dude Digimon did this on the back of the Pokemon craze in the late 90s, this shits being going on forever. Look at Yokai Watch, it's also massive in Japan and is a monster battling and collecting game. This isn't new and Nintendo have never stepped in or tried to challenge it.
Holy shit. You'd think people would understand by now that Nintendo would have sued them a long time ago if could actually make a case. That statement they made was to shut people like you up.
They're only doing an investigation, because you cunts don't know a good thing when you fucking see it, fuck off out of here, go back to where you came, corpo scum.
*Oh*
Shit man I apologise for that blatantly rude statement on my part, I so used to twats complain about it I saw the words "Nintendo" and "Lawsuit" and assumed you were on the side of the corpo.
What would they even sue them for? Nintendo lawyers do not sleep if the developers of palworld really did steal assets they would have been sued into oblivion the day the game got released.
That doesn’t say they’re working on a lawsuit at all… that says lots of people have been spamming them with reports and they’re going to look into it.
Which I can’t imagine Nintendo of all people being unaware of Palworld until now, considering it was announced 2 years ago and was clear even then what it would be.
They're looking into into to work on a lawsuit
Nintendo instantly lawsuit the games that literally names themselves after their IPs or use their content like sprites or OSTs. An original game that may have plagiarised your stuff is a completely different case. Especially since there was no evidence until the game's actual release.
That's the statement I'm referring to. Notice, throughout all of Palworld, not one use of Pokémon IP or assets. Notice, the dumbass modder who used Pokémon IP and put it behind a paywall. Perhaps they'll take the *honorable* age old tradional route of just taking this company to court and drowning them in legal fees. Good 'ol Nintendo.
There's a difference between a fan game/mod that literally names itself after your IP and uses your assets and a original IP that may have plagiarised your stuff. The reason Palworld wasn't sued yet isn't because Nintendo can't sue them.
"An important distinction between inspiration and plagiarism is that an inspired writer adds something original to their work, even if it draws on ideas from an existing work. A plagiarist, on the other hand, merely copies someone else's work."
Mickey Mouse is in the public domain; “yay! Disney is a scummy megacorp!” Slight plagiarism of Pokémon as well as many other mechanics added: “nooooo, muh epic wholesome billion dollar company will go under! The I- they keep shitting out is being stolen”
slight?? You think it was slight?
Also i do not care if pokemon goes bankrupt, and it definitely will not, not atleast to palworld. Did you even read my comment?
>My gripe is that if nothing happens to palword then other studios will also rip off ip's and that there will be an influx of games that are shitty ripoffs stagnating the industry
Why would ripoffs stagnate the industry?
Yeah like that hasn't been happening since forever already. Just look at the dozens upon dozens of Minecraft clones that usually add nothing (some add stuff like realistically modelled guns or something else that completely clashes with the game's style to be able to claim they're "unique" but they clearly don't put any thought into it), and those haven't been taken down either because guess what, you can't copyright a game's style.
But only the games that actually add /change something significant in a way that works well (think games like Colony Survival or whatever it was called, the one where you have a base and you can have people who sustain / defend your base) succeed because nobody cares about the shitty ripoffs.
Palworld is one of those games that managed to make it unique in gameplay and thus became popular, and if anything it's a big wake-up call for companies managing large IPs that they can branch out their IPs, it won't do anything for people making shitty ripoffs.
And it's not like Palworld is the only example of people developing a game based on another game because there's an issue with the original, for example look at Hytale which is still in development, you could call it a "Minecraft ripoff" but they've been working on putting together a solid game for years and it could well become quite popular among people who haven't been happy with the direction Minecraft has been going in (which is a lot of people), but clearly the Minecraft ripoffs have been there for many years already, Hytale won't change that.
I disagree. People are celebrating this because they have wanted a monster taming game of this magnitude for years, yet gamefreak didn't deliver. And while it also has inspirations from a bunch of other games, it is done in a way that makes it feel like a fun mix rather than a cheap copy.
If someone makes a game that is copying something that was already good in it's original state, it won't be recieved nearly as well. If they had made a game that was clearly ripping on Mario for example, people would hate it as the original Mario games by nintendo are already amazing. That is not the case with pokemon.
This just showcases how shit pokemon games are. All they did was the bare minimum for years, always the same formula, new pokemons have been lame for like 4 gens, shit graphics, same gameplay, always the same story
But why would they change? Because people bought any new game they released anyway. Because, while gamers in general are autistic manchildren with no impulse control, that monetarily support any shitty monetary practice that companies put out, only to than bitch about said practice (after they pay money for it, every damn time), nintendo fanboys are turbo gamers, turbo autistic and turbo manchildren that will buy every pokemon game, no matter how shit. With a customer base like that, I wouldn't put any effort either.
You say that now with Palworlds, gamefreak will finally try to make a decent game, but why would they? You'll still buy it dumb fuck, and then just bitch about how it's worse than Palworld, only to buy the next one as well
Worst thing I heard of it is that they didn't bother to learn version control (a digital tool to save versions so you can always go back to saved versions in case the current one breaks.) They used a bucket of usb drives...
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