I’m surprised it took Toyota this long. Porsche has been offering something similar for a while: “Current model year vehicles and those of thirteen previous model years with less than 124,000 miles are eligible for enrollment.”
I think more manufacturers should push a CPO program like that. It shows they have confidence in the product and lets them sell the same car multiple times.
The certification process to my understanding is very similar if not the same as a yearly inspection. More if a is this thing gonna get someone killed or is it good for another year. Except for the certification it's more like 5 years or however long the warranty period will be
Cali T with Handling Speciale package is the right entry to the market from a cayman S.
They aren’t as everyday as porches FYI they can be a bit stressful to drive.
I'm under no delusions I could daily/abuse any Ferrari as much as I do this cayman. It's probably the next car after the next car, but that warranty setup isn't hateful.
Some “certified” warranties add thousands to the cost of a vehicle and do not mirror the factory warranty. It can be cheaper in some instances to extend it via 3rd party
Not gonna lie, Porsche CPO is still the gold standard to me. It covers 2 years unlimited miles and you can even get fixes for non mechanical issues. Heated seats stop working? How about your 10 year old infotainment? Fixed.
I didn’t know their CPO was that good or stretched back that far. So you’re telling me that I could theoretically find a CPO 2015 Carrera 4S and drive the absolute piss out of it with no worries?
Yes. For at least 2 years lol. I think they extend it to 3 for $2k if you finance through them. Doesn’t cover maintenance but that’s normal.
Case in point: I bought a 2014 Cayman S last year CPO out of Ohio. 2-3 months in the infotainment started restarting. Two visits to my local dealer and one text and they spent $6k replacing it for me.
a real warranty will not make you jump through hoops. Any warranty thats forcing you to do that, or having you wondering if claims will be denied, is nothing more than a glorified scam.
If they make you "jump through hoops" in any way, its not worth buying.
> neither does BMW
Nearly all of the times I had to have my CPO BMW serviced under warranty, I ended up having to call BMW USA to get the dealer to stop fucking around with making me pay for the repair.
I had the same experience with all four of the BMW dealers in my area at one time or another. I love that car, but I'm never going to buy another BMW due to the dealer experience. Even the one that I bought the car from, five states over, was a shitshow.
> Nearly all of the times I had to have my CPO BMW serviced under warranty, I ended up having to call BMW USA to get the dealer to stop fucking around with making me pay for the repair.
have you modified your car or do you track it? if so thats reasonable.
> have you modified your car or do you track it?
Not even a little tiny bit.
The exchanges with the dealers were all the same. They'd say something wasn't covered, and I'd explain to them the nature of exclusionary warranties and ask for them to show me where the broken part is specified in the [exclusion document](https://www.bmwusa.com/content/dam/bmw/common/certified-preowned/BMWCPOWhatIsNotCovered.pdf.asset.1691598782694.pdf).
They'd mumble around a bit and offer to get back to me. Two days later, they'd call back and we'd have *exactly* the same conversation again. It would have been comical, it hadn't made me want to go down there and slam their heads in a door until the goop came out.
Not op, but NO.
I was in for new tires and they noticed the CV axle boot was leaking. They called me, told me they were dropping off a loaner and they would have the car fixed the next day. They treated me like I bought a 200k 911, not a 70k used car.
> They hunt for shit they can use the warranty on for you.
Sounds like Porsche pays them well for warranty fixes - gives incentive for shops to find and fix things.
Hyundai could learn a thing or ten in this department.
And now you’re talking about how good it was for free on a random internet forum. Companies bending over backwards for their customers is the best form of advertising and everyone wins when it’s done well.
Just to add to the story you're asking about, my cayman has a pinched washer fluid line on the frunk (bought cpo too btw), and they put the car on a flatbed, towed it tithe dealership, replaced it and checked for any recalls or anything else that even I may have missed.
Porsche cpo is no joke.
Not really. I did have to text them to ensure they got it on order. Because it was a hard to reproduce error I provided a video. Other than that, no problem at all!
[Take it home today.](https://finder.porsche.com/us/en-US/details/porsche-911-carrera-4s-preowned-5LRGNM?condition=porsche_approved&model=911&category=911-carrera-4s-coupe&maximum-model-year=2015&position=15212%2C40.4828051%2C-80.0367259%2C500)
Lol. Don’t tempt me. I just got a ‘23 M4 Comp xdrive I’m trying to keep for a while. But if I do swap to a P car I want gentian blue with a tan interior.
Bought my '16 Macan S with 95k miles on the clock and I now have a 3 year, unlimited mile warranty that's good until late 2026. Depends on the dealer to an extent, but I've found one that treats me like royalty, and I get a brand new loaner whenever I have it in the shop. Porsche is definitely the gold standard.
I'd head to r/Porsche and make a post/read a wiki if they have one/talk to the owners there. They're all really helpful and will guide you to the correct dealers.
My buddy has a GT3 991 that he bought CPO. He probably paid a $6-8k premium over non CPO. It’s definitely paid for itself and the convenience is worth it for someone like him. They put him in a new Macan and give the car back a week later in impeccable condition.
I was reading about Fisker, their new ocean SUV is going to be available to lease, with unlimited annual miles. And a guaranteed 12 year life..
The idea is the cars are rental cars and you just rent them for as long as you want them .
It’s a cool idea
Seems cool but it's also normalizing the concept that everything should be subscription and that normal folk are better off not actually owning things, just toiling to borrow.
Probably a 'refreshing take' on leases to keep revenue up now that cars are really spendy - Volvo recently came out with a 'subscription' too. Is lease a dirty word, dunno
Are you sure that it’s not better? That’s how a lot of truly rich people treat objects that depreciate.
Cars don’t (usually) appreciate. At best, they hold. Maybe we should pay a subscription equal to the depreciation?
> That’s how a lot of truly rich people treat objects that depreciate.
Not really, no. I understand what you're thinking of but thats not the same thing as never owning anything and always paying rent.
Are you sure about that? He probably leases it from a company he owns. Find me the ownership record via the FAA and then let’s trace it back together to him. I double dog dare you to show me a jet that Jeff Bezos owns as an individual.
None of the rich people in the world own shit except stock and obligations either to themselves or other rich people.
Yes, LLC. He doesn’t own them. It’s probably structured that they)re there for his benefit (and fly charters when not) but they’re leveraged against other assets and Bezos doesn’t pay for their actual use.
Some people think that’s smart, I think that actual costs should be transparent.
If you have complete ownership and 100% stake in an LLC then you control the LLC in entirety and own all assets. You just get all the benefits afforded to a corporation that you don't get as a sole proprietor. Corporate veil, tax implications, etc
If you were a doctor might make sense to have your primary residence under an LLC to protect it from potential judgments from malpractice or whatever but it absolutely doesn't mean you don't own that house
That pierces the corporate veil and means that he would lose the liability protection, which would be stupid. If you go look up the owners of the LLC it’s probably either more than two other LLCs or at least three individuals and a bank. The jets are also probably leased and not owned.
Yup. Probably leased, and under an LLC that cost, and much of the cost of maintaining/using the plane is a business expense.
You tax deduct all those costs away.... which very likely makes it cheaper than owning it.
Modern cars can easily last 30+ years though. And if you pick smartly, they won't depreciate nearly as much as a lease/subscription would cost.
There's also cars you can buy that would have little to no depreciation in 20-30 years, if you just pick right (Cayman GTS/GT4 in manual, GR Corolla, etc.).
Porsche, Volvo, JLR are already offering car subscriptions. Membership deposit + monthly fee gets you access to a stable of their cars and you would be able to swap every month or so.
So single car for Porsche is $1.7k/month and that includes insurance. Honestly, not that bad... just buy it for 3 months and drive a Porsche in the summer and return to driving my paid-off Civic the rest of the year.
Wife's uncle needed a new transmission on his Palisade. It was at 200k and they honored the warranty, but not without a lot of hassle. He had the impression that they wanted him to trade it in rather than get the warranty work done, and appraised it low due to it needing a transmission lmfao
I've never dealt with Hyundai/Kia for warranties but reading these replies is at odds with my secondhand experience. The engine in my mom's Sonata blew up at 125k miles. It happened over 200 miles from home in the middle of nowhere. Had it towed to the closest dealer which was still like a 50 mile tow. Long story short, they replaced the engine at no cost and covered her expenses.
Then again it's entirely possible she raised enough hell to get that done because she had a knack for that.
I feel like warranties today are practically useless. I have friends who have really made out on them and it worked out but it almost feels like talking to a gambler bragging about the large winning they just had while ignoring all the losses. They practically make you prove the work is needed or want you to go through a lot of steps to get there. If you are DIY or go to random shops for work then it becomes a hassle to prove maintenance has been properly performed.
It all depends on the dealer. People here forget they're franchises and not owned by Kia/Hyundai. Sure the manufacturer has some control over it, but none of them outside of luxury do that much other than reward/bonus out staff with good surveys.
I had a '19 G70. At that time all 5 "Genesis" dealers by me were still in Hyundai dealers. Service centers were all Hyundai ones.
3 of them damaged the car in some form. One took out a chunk of my side skirt on a lift, another didn't put a cover over the front fender so it came back with a bunch of wear scratches from techs leaning over it. The third one was a 6-8 inch scratch down my hood, I had them take it back to fix it, they valeted it back twice without fixing it and all in all for them to just fix the scratch it was at their shop for 2.5 months.
They never fixed the rattles I had in the dash that could be heard over the radio after sending it in multiple times. Had 45+ minutes of video of it doing it, did a ride along and they heard it. Every time it got returned "couldn't replicate". I was friends of a friend with one of the techs assigned to it, buddy texted him and said he had my car up to 130 on the highway and even that and the radio couldn't down out the rattles, but marked it as non replicable due to warranty work paying our poorly.
Had enough days in the shop to lemon the car over rattles that could've been fixed with foam.
TL;DR: not very different than a normal Hyundai Kia experience save for 1/4 the time the loaner you get is another Genesis product (even though the sales contract specifies both valet service and a Genesis brand loaner).
I think that's just dealer service departments these days.
I had a 2020 BMW m340i I took in for regular oil change (free since it was a new car). After about 3 hours I asked what is taking so long and from what I was told they didn't install the filter correctly and there was oil all over my engine bay from the test drive they took it on after the change
I had a 2019 Porsche Cayman GTS, 5 visits to 3 dealers in a single year and ever time my car came back with something new broken and often with tools left in the car still.
Anecdotally, and I'm in Australia.
But my mother has a G70, and their aftersales service has been really good so far.
Genesis service seems to have its own management structure though. But they still use the Hyundai network.
Yup. Had a coworker who had their engine blow in their Hyundai. Had it towed to the nearest dealership.
They voided the warranty because it wasn't towed to the dealership where they bought it. He had to fight with them for weeks before they finally covered it. Said they'd cover that repair then void out the warranty.
One (probably biased) anecdote is all it took for me to never consider Hyundai products.
Yuuupp. I sold my Hyundai with 10,000 miles and ate the loss instead of continuing the fight to get the transmission replaced. It would have needed lawyers and it would be hard to prove I didn't break the tranny since I'm pretty sure the synchros were the problem.
Ah I see. Souls have been good actually I feel like. It’s the new sedans they’re coming up with. Especially that engine that had the oil pickup issue (which had a whistleblower for a class action I think)
Ya certain engines are definitely ***VASTLY*** superior to others. Mine was the 2.0L. It was pretty bulletproof and I definitely did not care for it as well as I should have, so it impressed me.
I sold my 2013 Genesis Coupe Track in 2022 with 135k miles on it. 0 issues, just oil, filters, tires, and spark plugs.
Reddit shits on Hyundai's, and I am sure there were some Gen coupes that had issues, but mine has been the most reliable car I have owned to date.
I’ve used it once, but it went through very quickly. The upside if you will for dealership is that warrantied jobs are nice because they can do it without having to deal with customers.
A Toyota with 125k miles is the only one worth buying now. No one's going to want a gas powered Toyota in ten years, but a cheap used car just to get places is a sensible buy.
That said, they are pricing these six year old cars in the same price range as a new EV after tax credits, so Toyota is still being stupid Toyota.
You must be living in a bubble if you think no one will want a gas vehicle in 10 years. Gas vehicles are still the best option for millions of Americans. Unless there's some radical development in charging/ battery technology and infrastructure that's not gonna happen. Do I think electric car sales will go up and be more popular in 10 years? Sure, but they won't replace gas cars. Remember 10 years ago was 2014.
Ten years ago there was only one electric car on sale with over 100 miles of range and it cost $100k. The only fast chargers for it were in California.
You wouldn't get 100 miles out of an i3 unless you were driving at least slightly downhill with the wind at your back. Even Kia's cheapest EV embarrasses a first gen BMW i3.
There are EVs sitting in huge lots not getting shipped anywhere because they’re not selling. The EV market and concept is a joke. States don’t have the power to supply the EVs out there now, not to mention the amount of money it takes to build charging stations. Some states have to have rolling blackouts because of air conditioning. What do you think will happen if people actually bought the amount of EVs were told they’re selling.
Lol. Those EVs are shit. They tried to make EVs in three years when it took Tesla fifteen to get really good at it. Actually well engineered EVs will wipe the floor with gas cars.
There is plenty of power at night to charge EVs. It actually helps stabilize the power grid. Level 2 chargers are basically just power outlets. It costs almost nothing to install them. The average American can do their commute just using the power from a 120V outlet. I can't believe I have to tell this to another person. I've literally written this same fucking comment twenty times.
You realize it was only specific base model Kias and Hyundais that were vulnerable to theft, right? The vast majority of them were less secure than any other car.
That's cool. I guess I've just never bothered to see if any others did it, so I automatically assumed other manufacturers treated subsequent owners the same way Hyundai/Kia does.
That being said, if you buy a CPO Hyundai/Kia, you are absolutely entitled to the remainder of the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time.
KIA was why I convinced my Aunt to ditch her 2014 Optima with 20k miles. Alternator started to go out, and they tried to charge her $2,500 to replace it, despite the dealer promising everything would be covered under the power train. Between the alternator, and an electrical gremlin causing random no start conditions, we drove over to Toyota down the road to see what they had.
She ended up getting a little extra, washed her car loan, and walk away with a 2017 Rav4. Never misses a beat to tell me how happy she is with it the last few years, and has only had to replace the battery (I told her to get the 8 year warranty one through the dealer). First time ever owning something with AWD and remote start. They don't try and upcharge her either on maintence, everytime she walked in KIA it was always a full blown service they'd try and upsell her on.
Close friend just got his entire motor replaced on his Elantra, for a well documented issue. The problem for him was it took 6 months because Hyundai kept insisting the failure was related to something else and not the famous recall. It was most definitely the recall. Sometimes it's black and white for sure and that's great, but dealerships are shitty no matter the make (even you Toyota, you fell the fuck off). I prefer to have as little interaction as possible with the dealerships for all my whips.
Honestly fuck these dealerships. My experience at Audi locally has been awful. They treat everyone like they don't give a flip about them. Even the dude at the parts counter had an attitude.
Oh yeah. I had a Forte which I actually paid less than a comperable Rio thanks to some incentive shenannigans. I didn't even consider the Rio though for the same reason I don't buy forced induction engines,:
small engines work harder ->
...harder working engines = more wear and tear ->
...more wear & tear means more malfunctions right when the warranty expires
Oh yeah. I know, it's just that turbos and etc, are usually put on small engines and small engines need higher RPMs to do the same amount of work. Even a smaller engine w/o a turbo will need a heavier foot on the gas pedal.
Yes, I am very well aware. That is why I even bothered replying. However, I do not know as much about Kia models as I do hyundai, so I did not want to make any assumptions on something I know little about. There's too much nuance
Hyundai's warranty in Canada is much worse, which can only mean that their cars fail more often in the cold weather. Northern Americans should take note of that.
> which can only mean that their cars fail more often in the cold weather.
Or that the warranty work is more expensive to perform there. Or that they wanted to lower their prices in that market. Or that the competition wasn't pushing as much with their warranties etc.
There are MANY commercial reasons a company would do that, it doesn't have to be purely technical.
>a 2001 with 177k for $15,000
I don't begrudge you for getting as much as you can for selling your car, but $15k for a 20+ year old car with that type of mileage just shows how bananas the used market has been.
I'd be interested in a Maverick (even the XL AWD version) if I could find one near MSRP but most of the ones near me are priced between $36k-$45k, which is solidly in the "absolutely not worth that price" range for me.
Your Taco was half the price and will probably outlast any Maverick sold today. My 2023 has already had a couple recalls and that Ford build quality is not confidence inspiring.
The lowest MSRP advertised is never something customers can actually buy (& that goes for most car manufacturers) but if you build a Maverick through Ford directly and can wait a year or so for them to build it you can avoid the dealer markups and get it for a more reasonable price.
Tacoma market has always been a little silly
With that said, I just bought myself a 2012 that I plan to put 50k miles on and sell for only a bit less than what I paid for it
I just bought my 2014 2.7l 4wd 5speed for $16.5k with 142k miles
Tons of people have told me I'm dumb, but I know you fellows will understand.
I know what I have! Got the frame recall extended to 2027 too...
I manage to pick them up through a yard I used to work with back in the day. Occasionally they’re in need of love but a lot of the time, we run em. Average about 5-7k CAD.
Have you sent any engines to the scrap yard in the sky?
I know the new gen has issues with oiling at sustained G loading
Honestly the boxer engine has been enough to scare me away. I've had miatas and even a v6 camaro over the BRS-86 triplets since they came out.
Would absolutely love a cheap one to hoon, if I trusted the engine. I've seen many 2013-2018 cars on their third engine.
I put 6 motors into my Impreza.
But, the EG33 was a great engine that lasted me like 10 years as the 6th one. I was just thinking this morning that I'd love to have another GC like my old RS.
The great thing about them is that although you'll blow up motors, you can swap the motor in a half hour and they're $300 from the junkyard (which might explain engines 2&4 a bit more).
They absolutely *can* be built to be reliable though. I've got several RX/Rally friends with thousands of hours of track use on their one engine. It takes work and a good builder, but it's also a known thing at this point.
No, they told me , which was weird. I had pics in other cars on track, and they told me I was lucky I didn't have any in the FR-S. I found that to be really dumb since they sold the car on the premise that it was a sports car you could take to the track.
Right, they even make a big deal in advertising about how it's made for the track, but in reality, they car has oiling starvation issues under high-G cornering.
Then you've got Chevy, Mazda, etc. who fully support track use and even have setup instructions in their manuals.
> I found that to be really dumb since they sold the car on the premise that it was a sports car you could take to the track.
if you want a track car that has a warranty that covers things broken during racing, you are free to purchase a ferrari or an aston martin.
i think in the price bracket of an 86 you're asking a lot for toyota to cover track damage.
Track use isn’t a death knell to these cars. Keep them NA and don’t go nuts they’re reliable. I’ve had mine since it was new. 2014. Have done a few track days but I never go super hard, and do cool downs. Right oil, frequent changes and service and they last. But yes I know why a buyer wouldn’t want it. I would never sell, but if I did, I would sell it as a tracked car that another enthusiast into this wants.
Don’t worry, the dealer won’t bother actually doing the CPO inspection, just like every other brand. Then they’ll claim the mods were yours and you voided your CPO warranty.
I worked for a Toyota dealer in a large city for 4 years as the lead used car technician, certified a fuck ton of cars, and only saw one FR-S. It was a stock low mileage Series 1.0 though so that was cool.
> They’ve all been stanced
If you're in the market for an 86 and slammed out ones with 10 degrees of camber keep showing up, you aren't looking at the price bracket that a CPO would be in anyway.
source: former stance dweeb. own 86.
Honestly. If they certify the damn thing to the level a certified car should be then I think it’s a good idea. But I’d want major suspension components replaced, verified all maintenance intervals are current and updated or performed, and any leaks and all recalls are fixed.
Not guna happen with a ridiculous sur charge but still the main idea isn’t a bad one
>Imagine a world with me, reader, where you can get a 12,000-mile powertrain warranty on a 125,000-mile BMW.
And in 18 months or less it transforms into an out-of-warranty BMW with 137,000 miles. Not exactly tempting
In turkey some dealers do this. I've bought 2010 Hyundai santa fe in 2016 from an official Hyundai dealer. It had 60k kms on. They said it's previous owner bought that car new from them back in time and he traded it with a new tuscon from the exact dsme dealer.
They are offering an interesting thing in Europe where if you get a Toyota service you automatically get 12 months full warranty on up to ten year old cars. The car doesn’t have to have been serviced by Toyota before it just starts with your Toyota service and lasts 12 months. This effectively gives you 10 year warranty. You could buy a second hand Toyota and get it serviced and get a year warranty.
Talk about standing behind your products. Toyota gives an amazing CPO miles/years.
Toyota also offers an impressive 10yr/150k hybrid warranty.
Makes me wonder why Tesla can't up it's warranty to 10 year / 150k miles bumper to bumper (as it is from examples at r/TeslaServiceCenter they will just say all your claims for issues are "with in spec" anyways... so it can't hurt them in costs).
A few companies do stuff like this but offer it under a didn’t tier of CPO. Usually it’s a few months of coverage, not years. Still nice to have but it’s not like you’re getting a 5 year warranty.
I no longer consider Toyota when looking at cars (not that I'm actively looking TBH), I'm not willing to play their games when there are other options.
Mclaren offers CPO 10 years past new (so really 7 year extension), mileage need not apply. Yeah it gets expensive at the end (Was paying around 6-7k per year) and yeah they paid out more then that every year but you can get it and it was bumper to bumper.
Boils down to an actual extended, per se, warranty or not. And how much under msrp these things gonna be offered for.
Say, with the 86, unless that 125k mile example gonna be 12k, it's the hardest pass.
Did they not do this before, or was it rare and only in certain cases?
In 2009 I bought a 7yr old Land Cruiser w/115k, that was a Toyota CPO with a warranty and all that stuff
Right now their CPO program covers vehicles up to six years old and less than 60k miles. The new program is for older cars. They are calling the original one TCUV Gold and the new one TCUV Silver for certified vehicles with 60k-120k.
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