Can't you people just enjoy the car content without complaining about not being able to afford them. Most people can't. Did you have car posters on your wall as kid and sit there and think about how you will never have one? Every top comment on every sports car thread is about how people can't afford them. It's getting exhausting, unoriginal and just baiting for upvotes.
Agree. I’m so sick of these comments and the ADM complaints. Just don’t comment if you can’t afford them and you can’t say anything else about the car other than the fact you can’t afford it
Well I don't think it's wrong for people to complain. There is a reason that the inexpensive sports car segment has gone from a myriad of options to like five total. It's because the economy is skewed and most people can't afford an impractical fun car anymore. So when people see that sports cars thrice the price are are going for tens of thousands over sticker price and there aren't enough to go around, they might stop and think maybe something is wrong with society. But I also know plenty of well off people who are over the whole thing as well.
Sure maybe something is wrong with society, my point is these comments at nothing to the discussion and are just bait for upvotes. It obvious the cars are expensive.
It’s a reaction to our modern times, unlike earlier days now seemingly half the customers of these unobtainium cars buy them to let them sit in climate-controlled garages and flip them a year or two later.
Pair that to the general inflation fatigue that makes these cars seem less and less possible to buy, plus the seco d hand market has been batshit insane for years now and people know you just won’t score a good deal on a fun sport car again in the future.
So it’s like what’s the point of drooling over cars clearly not made for us but to get passed around between rich twats that won’t drive them but just sit in car meetings or to get likes on social media…
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They've moved up-market in to the luxury brand Ferrari has catered for decades - to always make 1 fewer cars than there is demand for.
Can't blame them. It's honestly disgusting how much money has been left on the table with ADM collected by the dealers, and not Porsche corporate. I think they're beginning to price these cars correctly.
> always make 1 fewer cars than there is demand for
Demand is a curve that depends on price. They may very well be maximizing total margin but you can always raise price and lower quantities even more. In my opinion they're going in the wrong direction on that curve. Once you've made your product unobtainable at some point you become irrelevant because the people that still care about your brand die and the newer generations ride a similar upswing with some other brand.
A lot of these can be considered Veblen goods though which can sometimes contradict the law of supply and demand. Something like a very rare luxury car can actually increase in demand if the price increases.
I forget which podcast I was listening to - maybe it was Cammisa - who said very seriously that Porsche NA should fire whoever's been in charge of pricing 911s, and particularly the "special" ones like the GTs and S/Ts. They clearly way underprice them compared to demand if they're "letting" dealers just profit six figures off ADM alone.
I like Matt's idea. Bring the S/T features like gear ratio, removal of RWS, and spring rates to 992.2 GT3 touring and make the touring not it's separate allocation and just checkbox.
But also hopefully they can produce enough so that anyone get an allocation without paying an arm and a leg for markup.
GT3's aren't exactly growing on trees either, and I'm sure the next generation cars will see an according price jump. They've been underpriced for ages and they're finally starting to correct course on that.
I’ve been trying to get a GT3 or GT4RS allocation for ages and everyone wants crazy markups. The issue for me is no existing dealer history. When they hear that they immediately change tunes.
Are you saying you can't get one even if you pay ADM but don't have any dealer history? If so, that's wild.
Unrelated but as someone who's wanted an Atom for years, I'd love to read a write up on what your experience owning it has been like if you ever wanted to make one here.
Hopefully they'll have more allocations in the future after seeing the demand (and prob you're right, going to increase in price closer to S/T). The 911 production line was limited with 718 sharing the production line and chip shortages. 718 this year moved all of their production to Osnabruck (incl GT4RS) to open up the production slots for GT3RS and S/T and more 911s.
I think all cars should just have shorter gears. I can’t imagine a single instance where any of the tracks near me allow you to get above 175-180 at the absolute max. Most are 120 if you’re brave enough. Road America is 160-170 horsepower depending
Gearing was what pushed me to get a 1999 boxster. You can’t get to 60 without going to 3rd. I don’t use a stopwatch when I pull away from a light, but kissing redline twice is a lot more fun than only doing it once. Incredible car, eminently usable
My Accord is fun, but yeah I have to hit 80 get to 4th - kinda pushing it.
Manufacturers need to learn to lengthen first gear to ease up wheelspin from a stop, and shorten the remaining gears.
It’s a tricky balance to find. It needs to have all of the feedback and sound of a fast car, have an engine that is happy to rev, all while not actually going particularly fast. The chassis limits have to have the right mix of capability and playfulness. Old roadsters I find are the best for this, because they were purpose built for delivering an experience, and the horsepower technology just wasn’t there yet.
It's lame until you hit the interstate.
They work fine on track and you can only divide ~190mph by 6 in limited useful "do everything" ways.
Too many see these as track cars...but they aren't, they a luxury cars that can handle track days well.
No reason why gear six can't be OD or why they couldn't have a 7th cruising gear. Would much prefer a shorter 1-4 or 1-5 and a cruising 6th rather than 6 tall gears.
There are plenty of services that will rebuild your porsche manual to do exactly that, along with a lighter flywheel
Haha, I'm always surprised by this, I have been in the motorcycle community for a while now, and the gears are so high on basically every liter bike... you could literally drive on every road in the US in 1st gear on most liter bikes.
It's also because of how high liter bikes can rev... the GT3 Touring already has a ridiculously high redline for most cars, around 9k. Most liter bikes redline at 14k-15k. So you have that extra 5k-6k RPM to really wring out on every gear.
Yeah it’s a tricky spot with liter bikes, they have torque peaks well above where other redline’s stop. So if you try to shorten the gearing to put redline at a reasonable speed for the low gears, the torque multiplication at that torque peak gets absurd
It's not all about 1st gear, and that's the problem with the thinking.
Every single car these days is 1 shift to 60 for bench racers, not because the car actually drives better with 2 shifts.
I'm of the opinion even high horsepower vehicles would be a lot better if 1st gear ran out at like 20, and you got to row 2-3-4 more between 30-90 mph.
Instead of now, where almost every car breaks interstate limits in 2nd gear.
I’m very anti tall gears, but I think with motorcycles that rev to 14,0000 having shorter gears isn’t really a great idea. The CBR1000 is 0-60 in 3.3 ish seconds and gets to 105 in first. Obviously a lot of that is related to the redline being 14,000, but if the gears were shorter so first topped out at 40, the usability of the bike comes into question because wheelies and wheelspin become a real concern. That’s more than doubling the applied torque to the road.
Car platforms are inherently more stable in loss of traction scenarios and are better equipped to deal with the torque multiplication of shorter gears. I hate long gears when they’re clearly done to get a better 0-60 time on paper, but I’m questioning the safety of giving motorcycles car gear ratios. You would never really be able to use wide open throttle until 80 mph at the bottom of 3rd with the power those bikes are making and the torque multiplication of the gears.
I love the gearing on my 5 speed 2.5L boxster, redline in 3rd isn’t even 90 mph, only 86. It’s awesome to get to really row through the gears every time I drive it, and that gearing and slow car fast sensation is why I chose it vs the faster options that came afterwards.
I was thinking about that too. I think there are a few factors at play here.
First the SC is not a GT department car (I think). And unlike the S/T and Dakar it doesn’t have as strong of an “identity”. Its main selling point is pairing the detuned turbo engine with the 7MT, which is unusual sure but how does that provide a drastically different level of driving experience that you don’t get with other 911s? Nick Murray did a video on the car and it seems like it doesn’t drive particularly better than a GTS, with the main unique part of the experience being the completely flat torque curve due to the detuned engine. So despite being rarer than any other special 992.1 I struggle to see its value surpassing the S/T (which has everything enthusiasts will want in a special 911).
Probably because it’s the sharpest form of the most ephemeral type of 911, the manual, naturally aspirated 911.
It’s a very cool rendition of a GT3RS, while the Sport Classic is a very cool rendition of the non-s 911 Turbo, and even in non-limited forums, the Turbos do not command the same coverage or ADMs as the RS cars.
It’s funny to read the comments about how enthusiasts are lucky the Macan and Cayenne fund the Porsche GT program, and then come into this thread and see people saying the GT program cars are underpriced.
So… we’re perfectly fine with a company selling its soul to keep making some driver’s cars, and we’re also fine with that now-soulless company making their driver’s cars harder to attain as long as anyone with the money doesn’t have to jump through hoops?
This is asinine. The S/T is their best car in a decade (more?) because, surprise, it’s lighter, has less bullshit track stuff, and *actually has ride quality*? And people are paying a massive premium?
If you can afford one of these, the smart move is to buy the S/T for your wife because it's cute and she'll like to drive to brunch after tennis but then you rip it up on track days.
That way you still have room in your garage for your blacked out Cullinan. The third garage bay has the golf cart and you're not getting rid of that so the wife has to get an upgrade. Fucking golf carts.
I'm really hoping they bring the S/T features like gear ratio, removal of RWS, and spring rates to 992.2 GT3 touring...
and make the touring not it's separate allocation and just checkbox...
and produce enough so that anyone get an allocation without paying an arm and a leg for markup.
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