I would sooner die than serve NATO in any capacity. Also I'd like to point out how conscription was done away with in Vietnam due to an incredibly high rate of officers ending up murdered by fragging. Just some nice food for thought.
The EU, the US, Nato and the military industrial complex......all signs of the end days for Capitalism. They are once again feeding us scary stories, doom and gloom, enemies everywhere, and for what? Fear! Fear sells. Fear makes you anxious. Fear makes you retreat into your own "safe area" or country.
Collapse is coming. Not tomorrow or even this decade, maybe not for many decades, but it's coming. Because the rich are making massive amounts of profit off of our fear. The richest peoples wealth increased more than threefold over the pandemic and wars.
Climate change will eventually fuck us. But the mega rich will keep making vast profits to the last human.....they simply are that greedy/stupid. Till their last cash cows bite the dust. And at the very end, as they slowly run out of everything, they'll moan and groan about the lack of service. Sitting in rooms full of gold, jewels, fine art and antiquities, and cash, they'll scrape away at everything to eke out a last meal......but there'll be none, they'll already have eaten the last of their staff.
obviously collapse related because this sort of conflict can literally destroy the world. also even without military conflict, nations may collapse when they realize their populations arent healthy enough for conscription
Tooth to tail ratio. Even in WWII, only about 20% of the troops were used for combat, and 80% was used in support.
There's a lot of support roles in a technologically advanced military. Supply, repair, communication, and intelligence just doesn't happen by itself.
Yup, and that's insidious.
Militaries will mostly conscript for roles that are non-combat and so people feel abstracted from the damage that they are inflicting. Like you say, that's the majority of the military.
I can confidently say I would reject any and all forms of conscription. The problem is that it will be exceptionally hard to flee to a Non-Nato country.
Same here. I'm a bushcrafter since i was a child, and my dad taught me how to fish since i could barely walk. Hunting i've picked up observing and I live in northern finland, they'll have to be damn good if theyre gonna find me come conscription tbh
If they manage to find you and hand you conscription notice despite despite all of your security meansures, you might as well take it, out of the respect for the effort xd
absolutely. I'll make them work for it, not because i hate the government, but because if they really need me that bad that they'll find me, I'll serve not because I respect the authority, but because I respect the effort they put into finding me lol
Other people say, "I think the military is going to be very much in the hands of the government, but I think the general public is going to be more likely to follow the orders given."
Look, I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again:
If they give me a giant Mech with a buster sword & make other servicefolk call me “Pilot” - well goddamnit, I’m in.
But not a moment before!
Look, I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again:
If they give me a giant Mech with a buster sword & make other servicefolk call me “Pilot” - well goddamnit, I’m in.
But not a moment before!
My robot says, "I think the world would be better off if people were allowed to have guns in public places, like schools or workplaces, instead of being restricted to private homes or prisons."
They don't need them to fight in the war, they need them to die in the war. Productive assets have now turned to liabilities with robotics, AI, resource scarcity, overpopulation, so they are sent off to die
That's a common theory, but how does it square with the fact that the people in charge (politicians, executives, and so on) are much more pro-immigration, relative to the population in general?
If they wanted the population to go down, they could presumably just let the birthrate do its thing. Much cheaper than replacing all of the expensive infrastructure a war would destroy.
At the elite level, you don't care about the population in a single country, you're concerned about global population levels. Immigration between states is, ultimately, not super relevant as the rulers of the world are not loyal to or trapped in any one country.
Within one country, immigration (and especially illegal immigration) benefits the rulers because it provides a constant influx of new laborers without the protections of citizenship. They are also an easy scapegoat for people within that country as they are so obviously 'different' to the eyes of the lazy and the stupid.
Arguably, you also don't necessarily want population to go down until you've maximized robotic technology to it's fullest potential. Shrinking population sizes means more power in the hands of labor; with less potential workers the ability to demand better treatment goes up. Look into the aftermath of the Black Death in Europe for a quick overview on the concept.
And, then also, as for infrastructure. They don't care how cheap or inexpensive infrastructure is because RICH PEOPLE DON'T PAY TAXES. Infrastructure costs, which overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy, are passed on to the middle-class, the working class, and the poor through taxation.
War is a win-win for the rulers. You send poor people off to die, but not at such drastic numbers as it raises labor costs. You get to syphon tax dollars off by selling weaponry, fuel, repair parts, shipping, clothing, food, and other support material, etc. etc.
You make fat stacks on war, then you get all the fat government contracts to come back and put everything back together again. It's literally the Joe Dirt fireworks/veterinarian situation.
"Someone sticks a firecracker up a bullfrogs ass and comes back to you to fix it, it's a win-win brother."
> At the elite level, you don't care about the population in a single country, you're concerned about global population levels.
If you care about resource conservation, it matters immensely. A guy in the U.S. consumes vastly more resources than the same guy in Guatemala. If there's a conspiracy around population control, it'd be about conserving resources, and immigration works to the opposite ends.
> Within one country, immigration (and especially illegal immigration) benefits the rulers because it provides a constant influx of new laborers without the protections of citizenship.
That's the safe justification for the elite supporting migration, but it doesn't track. Immigration is an enormous net cost to the state - the social services consumed outweigh the taxes paid by orders of magnitude. Any rich guy who wants to use the government to get richer could pick a far less unpopular (I don't think there's a single point in recent history in which "more immigration" was preferred over "less immigration" in opinion polls) issue and transfer resources into his own pockets far more efficiently.
Whatever it's about, it's not about money.
> Arguably, you also don't necessarily want population to go down until you've maximized robotic technology to it's fullest potential. Shrinking population sizes means more power in the hands of labor; with less potential workers the ability to demand better treatment goes up.
Well, optimal population size would definitely go down. If I have 500 non-automated jobs, total labor market saturation is, say, 750 working-age citizens. Everything beyond that is just taking up resources needlessly. If 500 goes down to 50, the optimal population then becomes 75.
> And, then also, as for infrastructure. They don't care how cheap or inexpensive infrastructure is because RICH PEOPLE DON'T PAY TAXES. Infrastructure costs, which overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy, are passed on to the middle-class, the working class, and the poor through taxation.
Well, objectively, no. The overwhelming majority of U.S. taxes are paid by the top one percent. It's true that policy redirects those taxes from the .01% to their closest competitors for power (the guy who owns a factory or two and the guy who owns a car dealership are the big payers, and the middle class is arguably taxed at severe rates despite it making up next to no share of revenue purely to weaken them as a class), but even if taxes as a concept did not exist at all, and government spending just materialized from a fixed pool, the people that run the government benefit from spending those resources efficiently.
Same concept as above - if I can lobby the government to spend $1 trillion on migration, getting me $250 billion in extra profits, I could just as easily lobby to funnel $500 billion directly into my pockets with less public controversy (since I'm costing the people less, and not unleashing any negative externalities on them).
This is what perplexes me about the COVID conspiracy theories:
It’s like, do these guys know their argument for how diabolically evil & powerful the global wealthy elite are kinda collapses in on itself, bc under such logic, they could totally just release an actual killer virus whenever they wanted if their supposed control was as insidious & complete as claimed?
Like if “ThEy 👻” *really* wanted us offed en masse, you wouldn't still be here whinging along to mask mandate outrage vids on b*tchute, Derek…
Besides, War is so painfully obvious as being more profitable than his other fellow horsemen - your brand of tinfoil hatting is much closer to the mark, I say; they’ll do this thing the good old-fashioned way ☝️
Exactly why i would rather go to jail than be conscripted. Im more likely to be killed by allies than enemies.
Especially with thoughts about wanting to be self-reliant and sustaining. This means i dont want to buy corporate crap that i didn't make myself.
You do have to remember that throughout history, and mostly still today, it has been the men who do the fighting. Realistically, anything close to equal numbers of men and women is an inefficient use of resources. In the modern world, efficiency has taken a backseat to humanistic principles, at least in advanced nations. The exact numbers are debatable, but it wouldn't be surprising to see men able to impregnate tens or even hundreds of women at a time through natural methods and millions through artificial insemination. Really, the limiting factor is genetic diversity. With the natural method, the men may even be happier in the short term. In the long term, men are happier in monogamous or small poly pairings since there's actually emotion and caring involved, but when trying to be efficient, who has time for any of that. With modern tech, the old issue of losing the labor force will be gone, and what does still need to be done could be done by the women. Of course, this would lead to crazy societal issues, and even if done naturally, it would either require sex hormone intervention to keep the number of male births down or just good old infanticide, only of males this time. Fun stuff that would be considered farfetched in a dystopia novel.
>nations may collapse when they realize their populations arent healthy enough for conscription
Bit of a stretch. In reality, when the UK realised in 1914 that half the military age population were less than five feet tall and could barely walk because of having had rickets as children, the government response wasn't to collapse, but instead was to introduce various forms of social security and free elementary schooling with compulsory PE and "drill".
The article mentions that 40% of the entire Russian budget is going toward militarization. They are completely committed to taking Ukraine. Historically and culturally they have no problem throwing bodies at this. Putin is very dangerous and recognizes NATO's nations not having the stomach for war.
We can just add this to the plethora of existential threats we all face.
>Putin is very dangerous and recognizes NATO's nations not having the stomach for war.
I fully agree with this. Russia's been at war for two years. Most European nations haven't fought a war since 1945 and have tiny military budgets.
Ukraine's acting like a buffer zone for NATO, but they aren't getting enough support.
The big financial backer of NATO, the US has become weary of war. Every nation that’s ever defeated the US knows that can’t win in a straight brawl. They know they have to exhaust the civilian public. 20 years of non-stop war in the Middle East has already done that for Putin. The US will commit its regular military to all sorts of peace keeping shit, but a WW2 style conscript military will take a lot of lobbying.
It's not a commitment to taking Ukraine. That is a first step, yes, but the commitment is to retaking all the old Soviet territory.
But that won't really be a newsworthy talking point until after China drops the hammer on Taiwan...
So many people in this sub are either in denial or are bots. Lots of pro-Russia, pro-China sentiment despite literally the entire western foreign policy this generation is based on defense. The next world war will start the same way as they have in the past, one of these dictators will escalate to a point that cannot be ignored. Look at Finland and the Baltic states, they know they’re next, and they’re building up barriers to stop an invasion. But without global support, the EU on its own will struggle to hold back an offensive. This isn’t just Russia, it’s Russia backed by Iran and North Korea, and more subtly by China. And if Russia succeeds, China will become much more brazen and taken Taiwan. Then I fear South Korea will be at high risk.
When the US is telling Israel to back off of the warmongering, it tells you there is a much larger instability in the world that we need to be ready for. Not to mention we already tried “winning over the hearts and minds” of the region, and for most people, things only ended up worse.
Hey, man, I *swear* I’m not Biden, and I’m *definitely* not 100 Senators and 435 Representatives in a suit…
On an unrelated note, hypothetically speaking, how would you feel if I promised student loan forgiveness and *didn’t* deliver?
Silver lining! I do hope that in the competing interests of the various demagogues and dictators that a world war is unable to form in any cohesive way.
Neither doed Russia. The Russian conscripts sure love to surrender in-mass and let Ukraniand through.
They also tend to have really poor morale.
He is only winning because Ukraine needs absurd amounts of modern equipment to make up for the lack of manpower, and having to defeat Russia who's dug in, and doesen't care about destroying itself in the process of taking Ukraine.
Russia itself has nowhere to go other than forward. This is probably it's last chance to be the world dictator, instead of dying out.
Fuck the world’s militaries, we should be spending that money on medical biotechnology and nanotechnology so as to cure all diseases and the diseases of aging. Check out Reddit longevity and the [www.SENS.org](https://www.SENS.org) project and Aubrey de gray’s longevity escape velocity foundation and videos by Aubrey and dr Sinclair in Silicon Valley and also www.fightagin.org
If there was a big enough threat, it wouldn't be a problem.
It would have to be something like France has fallen, or Mexico invaded. Dallas was nuked. That level of big.
I support Farrah Mackenzie with my heart of hearts ..!!
But seriously though
wdym..?
You meant "then who should one support" ..? in general or me personally
There'll be the local crime gangs, the old mafia's & ruthless cartels, the cops & firefighters, the PMC outfits, then each nuclear plant's and a few other shipping or industrial unions or staffers banding together, various FEMA & federal agencies each joining/deploying together with a given military branch or section thereof ;
Then you got billionaire bunkers & the PMC armies they hired, you got a thousand prepper & offgrid compounds/enclaves/farms across north america alone, you got hezbollah sleeper cells springing into action, you got proud boys and a dozen other far-right militias all trying to shout muh freedom muh patriotism while chasing after iranian/chinese/russian bogeymen after the EMP/cyber grid attack..
There's just scratching the surface of all the various groups that emerge after a collapse of american law/order that one could choose to support
I myself support vegetaman's post-collapse tribe lol, likely allied with my own *(neosocialist, ecototalitarian, hierarchistic, illiberal)*
That's pretty much what I meant. "Leave the world behind" is this incredibly chaotic situation where the prepper was right. Who do you trust, support, ally yourself with?
Looks like we'll find out soon.
Written by a guy who is based as fuck.
It's a cyberpunk novel where the death of an entire family is described in the same chapter a character named "skullfucker mike" is introduced.
If France fell to an outside force, that means that force went through all of Europe to get there. At that point it turns into WW2 thinking. We'd rather fight them there, than here. But if we don't fight them there, we are DEFINITELY going to have to fight them here.
If nukes destroy an American city, it won't be "spin," it will just be the end of the world. Feel free to report for duty in that scenario if you feel that will be the best use of your remaining time.
I am not fighting a war for a country so badly in decline like the US. I’m not gonna die for their interests. If they want people to actually wanna serve they have to make the reward for service something worth it.
>If they want people to actually wanna serve they have to make the reward for service something worth it
You get to come back and live in a tent on the street, be looked down on by fellow citizens and live a marginalized life while being forgotten/treat like shit by Uncle Sam, now that you're USELESS.
You want more?
Gen Z are rather deluded. At some point there is always the possibility of going to war, even if that is due to civil unrest leading to civil war caused because too many people refuse to go to war overseas.... Be careful what you wish for.
would be kind of insane to see a mandatory conscription service in the US in my lifetime lol. Like Finland but ALL US citizens who are eligible 18 year olds...
Yeah I can't imagine what would happen. I'm guessing there'd be a lot of people who'd take the "if you want me to fight a war so bad I'll do it right here" stance.
I doubt the geriatrics in charge understand that people only willingly sign up or go along with conscription when they believe in their country; that's long gone here, and most people feel like they're betrayed by their country. The major political issue now is not whether that's true, but who's the betrayer and who's their savior.
Conscription to go fight a war on another continent would be pure chaos at home.
Oh, I say this all the time. I’m a young white woman; I doubt they’ll view me as a threat, anyways. I’m more likely to self-delete than actually do any damage. I’m probably already on some lists.
>maybe spy for the other side? I hate the US; I’m not helping it win any wars.
I've genuinely been contemplating finding a way to work for China in their green development & sustainability sector...
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Went to Afghanistan twice courtesy of Uncle Sam and ended up with lifelong back and respiratory problems from living next to a damn burn pit, but at least they can no longer call me back in.
Watching the burn pit issue play out as someone outside the US has been interesting. The entire focus seems to have been on how enlisted American personnel were the victims. I haven't seen a single mention of how the affected local people who had even less control over the situation. And less recourse too.
Like agent orange all over again.
The US troops eventually got to leave, the locals are stuck there with a water supply that's almost certainly toxic (forget about the leftover depleted uranium shells littering the landscape).Their babies and grandbabies will have mysterious cancers, too.
Right, an Army marches on its stomach and shoe leather and boots are as valuable as bullets. It takes all types sadly. There was a pretty heart warming study done on men restricted to asylums in Britain during the war. The Home Guard had recruited large numbers of mentally unfit men for tasks that others had seen as menial. There was a uptick in their wellness reported by the patients as “having a sense of purpose.” Most of them were involved in clean up and rescue style excavations in London during the Blitz.
Thank you for that wonderful bit of WWII British history. So much to learn from that place and era, I don't think WWII movies will ever go out of fashion.
You're welcome, I think the Homefront is sometimes overlooked in the history books. Recently I actually found a modern Chinese movie on WW2, and had learned things I had only peripheral knowledge of. If one can ignore the patriotic propaganda in the film the attention to detail in terms of setting, the events portrayed, and the uniforms worn by both sides it's a masterpiece.
Incredible, thanks! Here are some documentaries I just found about the Homefront, both for WWII AND WWI:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=britain%27shomefront
Well of course, wouldn't wanna rouse you outta bed or disturb your afternoon tea and crumpets with the Earl or Duchess of Whateversbury for anything trivial, my good fellow!
I lived in Sweden I was shocked to see a Swedish official talk that way. Most Swedes have lived in a protectIve bubble for generations. They need such straight talk. Finland is always prepared.
I mean, I guess it's always good to be prepared. But it seems like the Ukraine war is degrading Russia's ability to wage war anywhere else pretty fast. Or am I missing something?
And who says Putin will be alive then? Not to say he won't be replaced by a like-minded individual but still. I'm more concerned about climate change and the fact that humans are eliminating species at a catastrophic rate. Wouldn't mind so much if I didn't have kids .
The book Tropic of Chaos points out these wars are very much in action today and as you say, will indeed be more of them as the resources become more scarce.
Nice recommendation. I'll try to check it out. As a guess, it touches themes such as oil in Middle East and fertile lands in Ukraine? Both are clear examples, but I guess more is happening in the world that is related to the same. Not just wars in the sense of armed conflict, but also foreign intervention in government policies around the world and such.
We’re going to see significant changes from here on out, it appears we have reached a threshold where weather is harder to predict and storms are more frequent and more powerful. They will continue to grow more powerful every year as the oceans absorb more heat energy and more ice melts. We are going to be at war over resources like food and water. Within the next 20 years is extremely optimistic, I’d say 2 years max before the world we grew up in is completely different.
Gotta keep the machine turning ya? Can’t cause that panic by saying shit will hit the fan in the next year.
Surely this was apart of Putins plan all along. Get Trump elected, try and get him a second term no matter what, and then go to war with the support of the US. Just missed the presidency he wanted but he had to follow through anyways. End the 2020 presidency with a big bang to do whatever the fuck. Obviously that’s all speculation, i’m no expert on war.
Either way we’re so fucked
Wanna know something crazy?
We are literally at the point where a loony tunes dictator not unlike Putin could continue fulfilling their position indefinitely postmortem thanks to AI generated appearances, mandates, & commands, & we have been at this point for at least a couple yrs now, whether the broader public realizes this or not.
This is based on knowledge of recent great leaps forward made in consumer grade computations - imagine the stuff we haven’t been shown that exists behind closed doors…
Fun Fact: the US gov’t has lost track of dozens of *trillions* of taxpayer dollars over the decades according to audits, with no signs of slowing…now, where do you suppose such massive quantities of “money” went, & do you suppose they are the only world power engaged in such secret siphoning to fund who knows what advanced endeavours?
It’s not about if Putin is alive then, and if you haven’t noticed, things tend to happen much faster than we predict them to these days. Could be the next 5 years for all we know
Remember a strategy could be to have EU/NATO spend a lot on weapons instead of solving immigration/integration issues and that will be used to collapse it from inside.
If BRICS goes to war with NATO, the only way they can win is to destroy all advanced chip manufacturing abilities within a few days on their enemy territory.
Else manpower can’t win this war. It’s like flinging men into the direct path of a gattling gun.
Good luck BRICS. Hover swarms of c4 can decimate millions of troops at one go. Sure there’s a few billion people, just need to make more drone swarms. A billion drones… skies might go dark.
They don't need to win. They just need us to lose. They could knock us out in a single day. A coordinated strike in space taking out our satellites with a cyber attack that disables our critical infrastructure (especially the power grid) would create so much chaos domestically that there'd be no way we could mount a serious campaign against them. In the time it takes for us to turn the lights back on, they could take out our global military bases and naval capabilities. We're much more vulnerable than people think. Sure, we have the biggest military in the history of the planet, but it runs on communication networks and logistical supply chains that are relatively soft targets.
Did time in the Fleet. Power grids? That is scary stuff. I’ll give you that. As far as decapitation strikes in cyber or real space? Doesn’t work quite like that. Intentionally. What you should worry about is the contingencies that go into effect and the retaliation that follows in an ATTEMPT (I won’t even theorize a success) of this scenario. Hint: it’s not “they don’t have to win”. It’s literally we ALL lose.
Yes, we all lose. But we lose more. Most of those countries would fare better, and their governments would practically prefer it, if we went into a new dark ages.
They can't even do that in Ukraine. They're literally dying in holes in freezing weather 40 miles from the Russian border and they've had 2 years to advance.
Both sides are playing it extremely safe in Ukraine. If we wanted to, we could expel Russia from Ukraine in a week. If Russia wanted to, it could turn Ukraine into an irradiated waste land. Neither side does it out of fear of the reprocussions, not lack of ability.
That sounded like the Netflix show. But yeah I got you. Likelihood of that ever happening, probably low. I mean come on you have generals and staff stealing ICBM fuel so they can cook hotpot..
If war doesn't wipe out society as we know it climate change will. We're fucked either way, enjoy the ride with your kids as best as you can while you can.
Putin has like 6-7 killer enablers in his inner circle. See Patrushev, very ruthless and directly responsible for the killing of Prigozhyn. The issue isn’t Putin, it’s the society that developed and enabled Putin.
It doesn't matter if Putin is alive then. The last arable land on Earth will be in Siberia and Alaska, and the neocons already own Alaska. They'll be going to war to seize it.
Sweden? Against who? Russia and Iran?
Sure the axis of powers are lining up and if that is the case for war, it’s going to be a logistical nightmare.
It’s takes 8-10 hours just to fly across the Pacific and Atlantic to reach the USA. Assuming that production run time is 2 hours per SAM missile, there’s no way a plane or ship is going to make it past defenses.
The only way to win this war is to go tiny - drone swarm. Or go big - nukes. Where defense is still arguably questionable.
WW2 platoon of bombers flying over cities and bombing cities? Nah it doesn’t happen given today’s seeking missiles.
Unless of course right at the beginning of war all production facilities for high tech components are destroyed. And war tech goes rudimentary.
Russia has drafted the mentally institutionalized, prison convicts, urban junkies and backountry drunks. In an existential war, literally everybody's going to fight.
That just seems like they're pushing out a lot of troops who aren't well trained and mostly for the meat grinder for the first few years of the war. They probably consider it a bonus to get rid of the less desirable first so less state funds are spent on people in prisons and hospitals while they spend more time providing extra training to well adapted troops for now.
The word you’re looking for is “cunning”
For instance, Pearl Harbor was “cunning”…it was not “smart”, however.
See the difference?
It’s all fun & games playing big bad dictator until someone is shoving a bayonet up your ass in front of some ancient Roman ruins for all of twitter to see…
This concept is also known as humanity’s favorite pastime: “fuck around, find out”
Remember to get out there & vote this fall, Swifties! 🤗
That could be the word I'm looking for. It's literally the first time I see or hear it, so IDK. Still don't look up the exact definition.
Anyway, "smart" is not synonym with "good", "ethic" or "free of consequences". I was using it in a way more similar to "strategic", considering the aforementioned [probable] goals and reasonings.
I also don't understand the reference about the ruins and twitter.
The Russians are targeting the lowest of society for conscription because they don’t want to rock the boat with the urban elite in Moscow and St Petersburg
Just because they draft you doesn’t mean you have to do as you’re told. Turn your guns on officers or all lay down your arms and refuse. If you’re going to die anyway firing squad will be quicker so just fuck them up
Where do you live? If in the USA or any other place that has a great amount of freedoms this is a horrible thing to say. Without ppl like the guy you are responding to you wouldn’t be free to say this type of shit. Yea the military sucks but it’s needed. Or you’d be under control and your life would be vastly different. I am not saying what America did in the Middle East gave you freedom. But ppl enlisting into the military keeps America free. Along with other countries who do the same. Just feels bad to see you shifting on it but not also giving thanks because of the liberties and privilege ppl like him sacrificed to give you. Just sad. Everyone needs to be more open minded I’m sick of all this bulllshir
Explain how, since WWII, that spending as much as the next seven biggest spenders COMBINED, and killing literally millions of innocent civilians in foreign lands, have given us "freedom" or bettered our lives in any way?
How many times have the countries that have spent a tiny fraction that we have - China, Russia, UK, Germany, France - been attacked?
Plus, we are across oceans from every power.
This is military-industrial-complex propaganda BS.
[Ukraine has attacked Russia a lot lately](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/s/WMvVqorjfZ), and Russia’s military is [now 6% of their GDP](https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/90753).
China has the [largest Navy in the world](https://news.usni.org/2021/11/03/china-has-worlds-largest-navy-with-355-ships-and-counting-says-pentagon), and has a [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China) dedicated to its battles and wars.
NATO is unpopular on its subreddit, but it was designed to be a [deterrent](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_133127.htm). So that explains the countries listed in Europe.
I’m not saying since ww2. Mainly the revolution, civil, ww1 and ww2. We remained to keep a free nation (with terms and conditions.) my main point was actually refuted by another commenter which reminds me the rich use the poor as a money raising meat grinder and we’re all mad at each other and not at the ones in charge. But at least I have freedom of speech and can say what I want without being killed or jailed. Thanks to people in the past who sacrificed their lives. I respect those who go to war and I also respect you and everyone else.
Well add it to my existential crises. Made it to chapter two and I get your point. I’m not pro war. I’m just thankful I’m free to speak my thoughts. And maybe that wouldn’t be the case if it wasn’t for those who gave their lives in ww1 ww2 civil war and etc. I wish it was a meat grinder to raise money. I see the angle. I didn’t mean to upset anyone
I absolutely agree that we should all be free to speak our thoughts. I think that ignorance and apathy are the Achilles' heels of democracy, and not having a robust public discourse only encourages ignorance and apathy. If discussing politics was as common as discussing sports I don't think that the US would be in the mess that we are in today.
I swear I responded to the wrong person, I was heated and I don’t remember getting upset about what your comment says. It doesn’t even matter I’ve been reminded that it is just a pointless meat grinder and I didn’t mean to upset anyone. Just that we shouldn’t put down those who sacrifice their lives to back their friends and families freedoms. I’m sorry to all that I came across as an ass. I guess I am getting old and mean.
Guy chose to go into the military that’s not getting fucked by the government, any sane person knows you’re going to get fucked going to war why join if you’re not ready for the consequences?
I mean, I didn't know shit at 18 lol. They didn't go "btw you'll probably get some weird cancer or illness because of the chemicals in your water, food, equipment, and clothing. Still wanna sign?" It's one thing to accept death by bullet or IED, it's another entirely to get cancer as a consequence.
I mean honestly this I joined during the financial crisis of 07 and 08 knowing I would get sent to Afghanistan or Iraq but I sure as hell didn’t expect I would be living downwind of a burn pit in Afghanistan, a burn pit where they burned everything from expired food to plastics to god damn metal.
Do you know of any shitty labor jobs that offer free college and healthcare? What shitty labor jobs is willing to take a homeless 18 year old and train them up to be an engineer? Please tell me because I’ve looked back then, and the military was the only option I had.
Well sounds like I made a good choice then didn’t I? I’ve got a masters degree now. I didn’t want to be stuck in a shitty labor job for the rest of my life, I wanted to move on up and that’s what I did. Like I said before, the only choice to get out of poverty, (not stay in poverty, or stay in a shit situation ) was to joint the military.
Lmao. Cope? Bro, you were the one busting my balls. And to be frank, sounds like you never knew what it was like to be homeless. And even if you were homeless, seems like you lived in Canada, where there’s a lot more support for poor people than there is in the US. So your argument holds no water here anyway. Enjoy your day, maybe you can find a way to cope instead of judging other peoples decisions
No no you just make it sound like you had zero choice to join an army? That’s called conscription? You went down to a recruiters office surrounded by thousands of hiring positions and then joined the military. That’s a choice you made. I’m not saying it’s bad! Clearly worked out for you but don’t say you didn’t have a choice like you’re in third world Africa.
Do you know what it’s like to be a homeless child in the US? Your world completely shrinks, very similarly to those living in a “Third World” country like Africa. But unlike Africa, there are no tribes to support you, there isn’t any real infrastructure to support someone with absolutely nothing ( except for “ the funnel”.)
I think you assume that the government in the US gives a shit about the homeless. I swear, that there is some sort of poverty to military funnel that happens here. If you don’t live here it may be hard to comprehend. I believe it’s one of the reasons why they are trying to do away with abortion. Unwanted children like myself get funneled into the military and/ or the prison slave complex. This probably does not exist in Canada, but the poor are treated very harshly here. Recruiters go to high schools and junior high schools and literally target the poorest as a ticket out of poverty. When you have no guidance, when you have no family that gives a shit about you, when you see the gatekeeping for all the “good “ industries, when you see that the only way out of homelessness is through jobs akin to slavery, or selling your body sexually, or ending up in prison,Then you realize the deeper darker problem that is the US. Then you realize where a lot of our military come from. Then you realize why there aren’t any real safety nets for the poor. This is by design.
I just wanted to say you've made your point so patiently and intelligently, I don't know why this person is so bent on pushing it and pushing it. I get it. I come from a poor area of the UK. Most of these towns have local regiments, and they start going into schools from such a young age. It normalises it, and people think "oh it won't so bad, I'll get a trade, earn some money, be out in a few years". They don't have the understanding of what it will really be like, or the privilege of feeling they have a choice. That's what the commenter doesn't seem to get - having other choices and perceiving them are two different things. I'm glad you made it out and made something of it.
I totally get what you’re saying, and there’s a reality for those that choose to serve that many people don’t realize - even when you sign on the dotted line you’re not expecting to get fucked over, especially when you sign up for a relatively mundane MOS with great civilian job opportunities. The reality is “everyone is a soldier”, and sometimes you’ll do things you didn’t expect you would have to.
I wonder how a lot of people would react if we had to implement a draft again. The military has its risk, and it definitely is not without controversy, but it does some good, and some good people do join. Without them, everyone would be expected to spend some time wearing a uniform.
Yeah it’s a different experience going to the recruiter’s office. Everyone is so nice, so accommodating, so helpful. They are doing everything they can to get you to sign your life away. They picked me up off the street, fed me, built me up like I was a star. Up to this point I was never treated this nicely. Most jobs in the US won’t hire you if you don’t have an address where you live. It felt like a total no-brainer to join for me, given my position. Did I have a choice to not join? Sure, then I can explore the glorious options of going to jail or becoming a hooker, or working a minimum wage job for the rest of my life.
I totally get what you’re saying, and there’s a reality for those that choose to serve that many people don’t realize - even when you sign on the dotted line you’re not expecting to get fucked over, especially when you sign up for a relatively mundane MOS with great civilian job opportunities. The reality is “everyone is a soldier”, and sometimes you’ll do things you didn’t expect you would have to.
I wonder how a lot of people would react if we had to implement a draft again. The military has its risk, and it definitely is not without controversy, but it does some good, and some good people do join. Without them, everyone would be expected to spend some time wearing a uniform.
When I was 18 I considered joining the army, but thought that since Bush just got appointed (not elected,) that we would end up involved in wars I wouldn't agree with. Nailed it.
its a pit used to dispose of all types of trash (batteries, tires, faulty munitions, jet fuel to get it going, etc, all toxic) in warzones like during the US invasion of Iraq and Afganistan. It caused a lot of soldiers to get rare cancers and other ailments.
It's where they burn the trash, but like tires and like heavy metals too not just regular trash. The men are in those pits breathing that air.
My father in law was affected by them. You can look them up for more details on Wikipedia.
Not to mention the regular citizens of Afghanistan who were also affected by the burn pits, and didn’t only live next to them for specific periods of time like the soldiers but lived there permanently. On top of all the other destruction the US inflicted during the invasion.
that's one of those things I simply would not do, and I was an officer in the army. There were actually a lot of things I wouldn't do, and I eventually left as as conscientious objector.
All military is widespread destruction and if we didn’t have it we would be destroyed by someone else’s military. It’s a wonder this species has lasted so long.
Even President Biden's son likely contracted cancer from the burn pits.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-veterans-obituaries-health-care-reform-jon-tester-cc45130782cfbf86ef29723514ce5e39
People can say what they want about Biden but the PACT Act was a huge win for us SWA vets, finally forced the VA to service connect my SWA related illnesses
The Southwest Asia theater of operations, covers a number of countries.
[https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/gulfwar/military-service.asp](https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/gulfwar/military-service.asp)
Yep no matter where you stand politically credit do where credit is due and anything that support vets, soldiers and their support networks and access to care is a win. Lots more to do but please support those who chose to serve in all capacity’s.
I'm 45 I did two tours I wish to God I never signed up. I never got seriously injured but some of the s*** I see still sticks with me to this day. It's been 16 17 years and if I close my eyes I can still find myself back there.
I read that the young people are too fat, addicted, dumb, or mentally ill to make the cut now. And they weren't exactly choosy before. Decades ago the Army required an ASVAB score of 31. Out of 100.
Depending on how fat, it might not even take a full year!
I went from 260lb to 185lb in nine months through warehouse work. I didn’t change my shit diet. I increased my daily calorie expenditure by 1100 kcals and I dropped weight *fast*. I went from a waist 42 to a waist 36 in those nine months.
If anyone could turn a fat young person into a soldier within a year, the military would be the ones to do it.
‘Course, the real problem is the mental health issues. Gen Z and Alpha have extremely high rates of depression and anxiety, which might bar them from service.
The irony is that the military gives you purpose, a set schedule, regular exercise, and a sense of accomplishment.
All things that are really good for depression and anxiety.
if there's a draft there will also probably be waivers for mental health issues as long as you aren't actively sucidal, and even then they might figure something out if the need is bad enough.
Easiest thing to do, make it a college course credit/a nice tax deduction, maybe an easy way to get a job by taking the course, whatever, to interest as many people as possible.
I lost 45 pounds in basic in about 10 weeks. I was fat but just thin enough to pass. The army has defattening down to a science. The main issue is that when a draft comes they have ways to get you in shape and ready. I am sure about 99 percent of recruits had some sort of mental illness or at least a few screws loose.
They'll have liposuction stations set up next to the buzzcut stations, then people who just had mandatory 20lbs of fat removed via lipo will start bootcamp the very next day. I'd expect it to be a brutal jumpstart, but at the same time... free lipo? Not bad.
Well, you also need to consider the environment that will be created by that point. One major problem with taking those sorts is that they are a large liability and can be quite costly for things. Say they make mistakes or get injured. You'll need to pay that in some way. But, if you degrade society in such a way to remove protections that would create those liabilities, it could be feasible. Like women's rights and child labor laws. Never did I think the United States would go backward in these regards, but they have in some ways. Who knows what can or will happen in another 20 years, though? I'll be old as heck by then.
I get the sentiment, I do. But this is why we need to continue supporting Ukraine now, to ensure we don’t end up with another world war 10-20 years from now.
Remember in WWI when the US attempted to stay out of it? Our private, civilian ships kept getting fucked with. Remember in WWII when we tried that again? Then Pearl Harbor happened.
The US, despite all of its shortcomings, is still looked at as the beacon of the western world and democracy as a whole. Just because we’re over here doesn’t mean we’re safe. Much of US foreign policy has been a means to ensure the theatres of war never make it here. But if the EU falls to Russia, and Taiwan/Japan/Korea to China, there is only one holy grail left worth taking.
I don’t think that Russia is a plausible threat at the moment, but the more China, North Korea, and Iran cozy up and we still haven’t put the Russian threat to rest, the greater the likelihood that we see a much stronger, more militarized Russia in the near future. And all it takes is for there to be 2 or 3 simultaneous fronts before things start looking real grim for everyone.
With that said, I wish US foreign policy would take a much stronger stance on deescalation with Israel, and find ways to work with some of our historical enemies to ensure in a world war scenario, they support the west. Shit, we know how China feels about Muslims, yet there was a moment where BRICS was looked at as a serious possibility.
As someone from not the US I can assure you: LMAO that is NOT what we see the US as. It is literally viewed quite rightfully as the scourge of the earth
You can disagree on a personal level, and I don’t doubt there’s a sizable anti-capitalistic movement that would agree that America has become pretty dystopian. But US adversaries don’t care, they still see this country as something that spreads dangerous democratic ideologies (hopefully that continues and we can claw back more of those values of democracy). Pro-American sentiment among people living in allied countries may be declining in some cases, but the governments are still very pro-US.
>they still see this country as something that spreads dangerous democratic ideologies
And here I thought we'd all given up the "they hate us for our freedom" bit
It’s not “our freedom” they hate, it’s the ability to speak and think freely, even if we are still slaves to a similar system. That fundamentally destabilizes dictatorships and results in rebellions and uprisings, for better or worse. Any country that operates with state-owned media and bans outside information is not acting in your best interest. I’d ask you for what you think the reason is that America’s top adversaries hate us so much, but I’m guessing you’re just here to jump on the anti-American bandwagon so you don’t really have an answer.
>. I’d ask you for what you think the reason is that America’s top adversaries hate us so much,
I mean right now we are backing a genocide, but we have backed many in our history. For all the foreign meddling it is claimed Russia and China do, we have done 10x as much to prevent the spread of Communism, and despite your claim that we have a free press, the wealthy owners of our media are the same people that own our politicians and their goals and opinions always seem to be in lockstep.
They don't hate us because we are free. they hate us because we are the villains
Who is “we”? Do you back genocide? Do I? Do many of those in Congress? Hell, even Biden, as weak as he is, has started pressuring Israel. 49% of the Jewish population in the world lives in Israel, another 49% in the US, and the remaining 2% is spread across everywhere else. That is the only reason the US has been so aligned with Israeli interests (and why they have been so willing to align with ours). There is a ton of money in that relationship, and it runs deep, but for every person crying about the minimal suffering Israel saw, there is someone else shouting that the US supports genocide.
The US, on the whole, does not support genocide, but there are factions within the US that are legitimately unable to separate out the need of humane response for Palestinians while continuing to support and protect Israel. Some people just can’t see it any other way than an all-or-nothing issue. It’s ridiculous, but also don’t think that this is a normal and standard American belief.
The boomer generation still has a stranglehold on American power, and these are the people that still think that the Red Scare is a real threat. They’re thinking that the holocaust was yesterday so Jewish people can do no harm. And they also have been on a prosperity high since they were born, and now that they see things falling apart they’re panicking and looking for someone or something to blame. There has been a fundamental shift in sentiment over the last decade, accelerated and extremified by DJT, but there is a rather large movement of people who are grounded in reality that are slowly permeating the industry and government who actually have a vision for a better America.
Now isn’t the time to abandon the country, it’s a time to continue speaking up about what’s right and fighting for leaders that better represent us so the next time someone asks you what America represents, you have something positive to say. We all get maybe 80 years on this planet, don’t spend it running from your home, clean it up, make it better, and hope that the next generation gets a better shot.
The US is built on the unprecedented military conquest and ethnic/cultural erasure of native peoples. Liberals thinking they can justify this as some form of progress is pf course ridiculous and I can't even have the discussion it's so ridiculous. Failed Europeans killing natives because they can't get along in their home in Europe
This is such an American response: it’s not about what you view yourselves as, it’s about what you are doing and have *always* done to the rest of the world in the name of capitalist, imperial hegemony. Governments may align due to purely transactional relationships, but I can assure you, the citizens of the world hate the US. It DOES spread dangerous ideologies and absolutely none of them are democratic. It is delusional to think this. A cursory glance at the damage the CIA has inflicted on the globe evidences otherwise.
If that is your takeaway on America, then you clearly do not understand how complex the systems that govern it can be. We’re on the cusp of another civil war to ensure there is still a democracy left. There is a very real movement heavily influenced by Russia and China to destroy democracy in America forever. The people in this country have lost access to determine our laws and leaders, but that has not been a collaborative movement from those at the top. There are many great leaders sticking their necks out to drive positive change. The CIA does not run America, it exists outside of America, without legitimate oversight. It’s a pet that has gone wild and cannot be controlled. That’s not American policy but rather a design failure and an unsurprising symptom of the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about 60 years ago.
Prior to 1970, America was no worse than any Western European nation, capitalism and all. Power shifted hands away from the people, however, and it has been a battle to claw it back.
You could probably add another 100 nations to your list. The US picked up where most of Europe left off in regards to sabotaging other nations for their own gain.
The US willingly has countries coming to them asking for protection. China, meanwhile, is off colonizing Africa.
There have been bad actors with nefarious intent that got us into places we should have never been, I’d consider Iraq/Afghanistan as our last colonization campaign. But on the whole, US adversaries have much looser moral compasses and much greater appetite for imperialist behavior.
> The US willingly has countries coming to them asking for protection.
Well no shit, if you are hiring someone for protection you want to hire the best guy.
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As someone from not the US I can assure you: LMAO that is NOT what we see the US as. It is literally viewed quite rightfully as the scourge of the earth
I still have yet to see any proof whatsoever that Putin wants to take more than Eastern Ukraine, which is btw, predominantly Russian speaking people. There is absolutely no other reason for Putin to continue moving west.
WWIII will be the cause of America, not Russia.
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Spoken like someone that knows nothing about the US military or the capabilities of its adversaries. You’re just pushing Chinese propaganda.
There are cracks in the seams in several aspects of the US economy, and the military has retention issues. But the Chinese military is nowhere near ready. Based on their own development timeline, they’re still 20 years away from being a top military power, and they are entirely untested in a real war. Their Temu-sourced warships and Wish-procured tanks look powerful, but were built for mass production, for show. There is no decades of experience to train the next generation on strategy or the proper use. China is just a bunch of kids with guns that will panic when they see the atrocities of war for the first time. Most of the country is in their most prosperous time of their lives, you think they’re going to want to leave that behind for an austere hellscape? They may have the US beat on numbers, but that’s easy to do when service is mandatory. They’ll walk into the meat grinder for months until they’ve learned enough the hard way how to fight a sustainable war, but by then the damage will be done.
The US, despite all of our shortcomings, still outspend any country on the planet to develop technology that, even when 20 years old, smacks Russia’s equipment in the face. There are parts of the US that *wants* to be a Russian colony (namely the far-right, Trump supporters), but rest assured, a majority dislikes that idea. Our military is as hungry as ever to keep increasing spending to boost the Ukraine war effort, because while we’re sending our last-gen tech overseas, we can keep building next-gen weaponry that will melt faces in our next involvement. And the US isn’t alone. We need our partnerships with NATO and democracies in the Pacific, like Japan, Australia, Korea, and hopefully Taiwan.
I think the main weakness of USA is not Hardware but the health and fitness of its people.
I read that something like half of the population is unfit for the military and that number is going up.
Obesity is an issue, no doubt, and people are getting fatter. But ironically it’s the military’s own regulations that’s disqualifying people at a higher rate. As states increasingly legalize certain drugs and people continue to take better care of their mental health, more people are becoming immediately disqualified. Then comes the Army’s implementation of Genesis, which on paper sounds like a good thing - scrape all medical history of every candidate for disqualifiers - people with old issues like childhood asthma, or people who sought help for depression once years ago are also flagged for disqualification.
Not to mention the archaic height/weight measurement system used to qualify people’s fitness. Doesn’t matter how well you perform, if you weigh more than the standards say your height should allow, you get taped to see if the size of certain body features puts your estimated BMI within the threshold. For men, they measure two parts, your belly and your neck. Not exactly scientific.
> Remember in WWI when the US attempted to stay out of it? Our private, civilian ships kept getting fucked with. Remember in WWII when we tried that again? Then Pearl Harbor happened.
Your definition of "staying out of it" is suspect. American finance loaned the Allies ~7 billion dollars that included both capital and finished goods in WW1 while the Central powers barely got anything. One of the reasons America joined was to ensure Britain and France would be able to pay these debts.
In WW2, the oil embargo was the main impetus of Pearl Harbor, but also the fact that America controlled the Philippines as a colonial possession as well as many other Pacific islands.
"staying out of it" does not mean "Just don't directly declare war." It also means not favoring either side, which the US never did.
I’m not sure if “suspect” is the right word to use. I definitely oversimplified, but the fact remains, the US did not seek direct engagement in either war. I’d argue we used the same playbook we’re using now. Let folks fight it out and hope it all blows over in our favor, but fuck with us and find out what happens. Except this time we fostered strong relationships that in previous world wars we had no obligation to defend. So we’re feeding resources to Ukraine, Poland, Germany, and other countries in hopes that the message gets across that while we don’t want to put boots on ground, we’re quite unhappy with Putin. Russia isn’t threatened by the EU, it’s threatened by the US. It’s the only reason they haven’t escalated.
Likewise with Taiwan. If we didn’t exist, Taiwan would be China. Yet we have enough influence to effectively ban the legal sale of an entire generation of computer processor technology.
No country in the world operates without personal interest, and that has absolutely been a factor in the US’s foreign policy. But when the way of life for everyone becomes threatened, things stop being quite so transactional. These days the US is way too happy to donate funds to our allies with nothing in return if it means it keeps us from having to fight their wars.
You heard of Iraq? Vietnam? We did it for far less out of pure ideology. Propagandize the enemy as woke or wathever's popular in the culture war and you won't be short of volunteers.
Here come the fucking liberals. Yeah man, Putin, specifically, is uniquely a bad and evil guy who’s a maniac, not a rational actor securing his interests and those of the ruling class he serves. I’m sure all the very smart people at MSNBC have taught you what to believe very well. I’m sure worshipping NATO, an organization made up of Nazis (including literal ones!) is the way to go 🤓
Put a sock in it. My government is more my enemy than Putin will ever be. I know who is oppressing me and wrecking things over here, and it sure as sh*t isn’t Putin.
Ali - [I don’t have no personal quarrel with those Vietcongs](https://slate.com/culture/2016/06/did-muhammad-ali-ever-say-no-viet-cong-ever-called-me-nigger.html)
According to Robert Lipsyte, who was at the house reporting a feature for the New York Times, the boxer’s immediate response was more selfishly personal than defiantly political. “Why me?” Lipsyte quoted Ali as saying in the Times the next day. “I can’t understand it. How did they do this to me—the heavyweight champion of the world?” As the news spread, reporters arrived in waves, and neighbors and passers-by did too, asking question after question, for hours.
Ali answered them all. He said, “How can they do this without another test to see if I’m any wiser or worser than the last time?” (Ali in 1964 twice failed an Army pre-induction mental aptitude test.) He wondered why the U.S. government was “gunning” for him. He suggested that officials were biased against his Muslim faith. “I’m fighting for the government every day,” Ali said. “I think it costs them $12 million a day to stay in Vietnam and I buy a lot of bullets, at least three jet bombers a year, and pay the salary of 50,000 fighting men with the money they take from me after my fights.”
“He eventually subsided,” Lipsyte wrote in a May 1967 profile in the New York Times Magazine, “and questioners pressed, asking Ali about Vietnam. He admitted that he wasn’t sure where Vietnam was. They asked him about the Vietcong. He shrugged. ‘I got no quarrel with them Vietcong.’ ”
Lipsyte didn’t include the quotation in his deadline story; spoken half-heartedly by a weary Ali after all those hours of talking, it didn’t instantly resonate. (Lipsyte has said he just blew it.) But the quote, or a version of it, was picked up by other reporters. “I am a member of the Black Muslims, and we don’t go to no wars unless they’re declared by Allah himself,” the Associated Press quoted Ali as saying. “I don’t have no personal quarrel with those Vietcongs.’ ” In an AP dispatch a week later, it was “Vietcong” singular.
Conscript recruiters are gonna run into booby trapped neighborhoods, or just simply get shot on sight by people. Fuck that I'm not destroying my body and possibly dying for rich cunts.
This entire article as well as most comments about it is utterly laughable.
Russia in 20 years time??
At the rate shit is going down in Russia today,
They won't even exist 20 years from now!
Russia's economy is on the verge of collapse,
Its entire military has been brought to its knees from fighting 1 single non-NATO country,
There are open threats and stoking fires of civil unrest and revolution happening all over the country RIGHT NOW,
What possible threat to the entire NATO conglomerate could Russia possibly be?
Less than a month after a possible Article 5 decree,
Moscow will look like Mariupol FFS !
Glad Im in South Africa. Nobody cares about us and we're too broke to fight. Conscription would just end up with a bunch of guys at a run down military base going "wat de fok nou?"
If Israel is found not-guilty of genocide, they can continue bombing any civilian target they want under banner of Self Defence. This case could be very beneficial to Israel for all future action. They will just refer any claim of genocide back to the case's outcome. Wonder what influence Israel, US and allies have on those that are ruling on this.
The US is not a party to the ICC, we didn't sign the treaty because we didn't want to give the court legitimacy in case any of ours ended up on the docket. In fact, back in 2002 Dubya signed the Hague Invasion Act that pre-authorizes the president to use military force to retrieve any US politician who might be accused of war crimes.
For the US to try to influence the ICC, we'd first have to admit it was a legitimate body and we aren't about to do that.
I mean, seven different countries in a variety of global locales are poking Israel at the ICJ over a variety of war crimes. South Africa is just the closest, the first, and probably the most publicized.
Not actually filed, but just like there was a build up of rumour about South Africa bringing the charge of genocide for a week or two in advance I am now hearing that a bunch of other countries are exploring bringing charges (other than genocide) under the laws of war. I can't find the list again, but it included Venezuela, and there were at least a few others. I may have exaggerated by saying 7, but it's looking like it will be at least 4 or 5 before too long.
It's voting year so the government is trying to get the muslim votes because this year is the closest we have come to removing them from having a majority.
Somebody recommended I read " Tropic of Chaos" and it is eye opening to say the least. War is the weapon of the elites so we'll be seeing so much more of it as they cling to power and resource control. Not ideal if you're a lover and not a fighter.
I think the collective West is in hysteria mode regarding the current major conflicts. It’s very odd how war-mongering NATO has gotten in broad daylight. Russia-Ukraine and Israel-Hamas are regional conflicts and have nothing to do with us if we don’t stick our noses in. However NATO insists on getting involved in as many ways as they can; that’s their problem.
Russia, China, The ME, North Korea, Iran. Just leave those people alone man, leave them alone? They are not some comical supervillain trying to conquer the world. If their antics ever have a direct clear violent effect on the West then we can talk. But what is NATO afraid of now? That they are falling behind economically and societally? That is an internal problem. It won’t be solved by scapegoating external parties and I’m not going to go to war when I see how well our system works for it’s people every day as I drive by the homeless people downtown or hear about people afraid to visit a doctor because of insurance copayments. Let’s fix our shit first, then we can talk.
It is perhaps to take over the vast areas and resources that Russia has. Just like Iraq.
There are no wars for ideological reasons or democracy or to protect the population. If that were the case it would be a completely other batch of countries that was being attacked.
That people still believe this "we good, they bad" propaganda is ridiculous.
Uh oh, 2024 is surely not disappointing so far. But more on a serious note...what the actual fuck? I'm not about to throw my life up for some old fucker in a suit, thanks.
It’s funny, anyone I’ve known personally who served at some point left feeling very anti-war. Not even the enlisted believe in the draft half the time.
It's like how every climate metric is "changing faster than anticipated" it's because they didn't want to believe how bad it was and the bias skewed their estimates.
I just released from the military.
As early as 2018, Commissioned Officers were telling us that “the next big war” with Russia and China was on the horizon. In November 2021, me and my friends were told that the Russian invasion was imminent. None of this information was passed down in a special way, and nor was it classified. These were just regular conversations and after-training talks. I’ve heard other things, as well, but I won’t be repeating them here.
Just recently, a British politician announced that there’d be a deployment to Ukraine in 2025. However, this was later recanted. But personally, I can see that potentially happening.
All I can say is that the stage of war has been getting set for years. Those of us in the know have been hearing about it for over half a decade already.
Actually surprised people saw one of my comments, I assumed I was shadowbanned for the longest time. But correct, these warmongers are itching to start ASAP
My personal bugout plan is centered around this.
Fuck your war, and fuck prison. I’d rather die from the elements than kill another conscript or get my ass shanked in prison.
> I’d rather die from the elements than kill another conscript or get my ass shanked in prison.
Ehhh.. freezing to death is brutal.. I don't think I could willingly consign myself to that fate. I honestly think a mutual murder-suicide would be better,
Nah I'm not fighting for y'all after seeing how you treat the planet and the less fortunate. Go ahead and lock me up or kill me or whatever. I'll never fight for you.
No if it ever comes down to it fight those empire bastards. Don't let them take you hostage. Take them with you. It's because of them that most of us have to live more shitty lives overtime. I'm surprised operations haven't started to take them out. There's many qualified military and ex-military
This generation is probably the least patriotic and least likely to willingly just go to war. I wonder, what happens if too many people fight back and refuse even with a draft?
I’d only comply with conscription if it was to defend the country against invasion, not if it was to be part of an invading force people from some other country need to defend themselves from.
Well, overpopulation is the cause of 'climate change' (or indeed just the problem itself). A big war will bring desired results. Cynics will say the pandemic plan didn't go according to plan, so it's on to Plan B...
Its what happened to all the people who came off the farms during the last industrialization period. We are in the AIndustrialization period now so the rich are gonna try to use another armed conflict to burn a few billion people off the planet so they can keep the loot without sharing it.
>Its what happened to all the people who came off the farms during the last industrialization period.
Could you please elaborate and/or provide any source for this? I hadn't heard of it before and I find it absolutely fascinating.
There is no one easy source as its more of a college level Western Civ multi semester kinda of topic. The period you are looking for usually starts around the time the US fought its civil war and the continental Europe is nearing the apex of its colonial powers all the way up to WWI where things kinda get really out of hand. Most Western Civ professors will tell you that WWI and WWII are really just one long drawn out conflict with a brief rest in between. What we are witnessing today is similar in wherein major imperialist powers are kind of eating themselves now trying to maintain control and the policies that got them where they are today are coming undone.
I joked once about the coming mass layoffs caused by AI,
>"It will be fine! It will be just like the automobile revolution. As we know, when the car was first introduced, it freed up all of the millions of horses to chase their dreams and passions...
>Just kidding, they all died in World War 1. "
Yep. Can't send them to the new continent anymore, so send them against one another to die is the next best bet. Kill the excess poors, keep a few maintenance middle class, environmental impact slightly lessened, and the people sending others to die get to live in comfort for a few more years.
At this point I think world leaders recognize we *need* a war or something, anything that will thin out the world population since they do plan to replace most of us with AI/robots and they don’t want to deal with billions of unemployable (useless) people.
I get the need to prepare, but the idea that Russia could sustain a conventional conflict against Europe/NATO is just laughable. They can't even push past determined Ukrainians with some NATO leftover hardware. The only threat Russia presents to Europe is nuclear, and once the nukes fly, conventional war will be pointless.
IMO it’s pretty clear the motivation is Europe looking east at Putin looking like a mangled terminator crawling at them, then looking west at the prospect of a Project 2025 US, where not only would they be without US military help but might also have to fend it off. If/when the US goes rogue, the rest of the west will be all the help they can get, hence doing this through NATO rather than the EU, as it ropes in the UK
> not only would they be without US military help but might also have to fend it off
Nonsense.
A Project 2025 US would be staunchly isolationist and stuck dealing with all sorts of political infighting.
We might not be the most dependable ally, but I absolutely don't see us helping Russia or in any way becoming a threat to our European friends.
Europe, that's banning hijabs and making it illegal to be Muslim, are definitely the victims here, yep.
Europeans are the world's greatest victims, victims of evil Americans and evil Russians, hence why they need to go Fourth Reich in real time for the whole world to see.
There will be wars as long as there is blood left to spill & as long as people fail to realize that I'm always right. ;-)
Always remember to vote against your best interest.
It will sadly be a lot sooner than in 20 years. This is Putin working hard for his legacy. He is 71 years of age now, which means he will die within 10-15 years most likely. He has been preparing for this the last 15 years. *(10 years since Crimea)*
US Republicans will continue to prevent the aid to Ukraine during the year. Making it harder for Ukraine to fend off the Russians and at the same time depleting Europes stockpiles at an ever-increasing pace.
After US election Putin will either get a **green** or **red** light to start or prevent his invasion of the Baltic States. If Trump wins Russia has 4 years to begin their offensive against the Baltic States. The Baltics are extremely hard to defend without the territory of Sweden, which is not yet an Article 5 country (but hopefully soon).
When the US is not contributing, the European States will have to recalculate how they are going to use their own stockpiles more efficiently. As well as how to ramp up ammunition production far away from the upcoming frontlines in such a scenario. Russia is currently producing enormous volumes of ammunition as well as purchasing from several other countries. Sadly, as Zelensky said himself.. it's going to be very hard for Ukraine to fight Russia without the support of USA. Which means that the current war economy in Russia is aimed at a larger goal, not just Ukraine. The **Suwałki gap** and the Baltics will be a huge part of this conflict the upcoming years.
It is all very horrifying. Europe will never forget this.
​
>"The release of the terrifying documents come just days after Sweden's civil defence minister warned that his country could soon face the prospect of war and urged citizens to join voluntary defence organisations in preparation for a Russian attack.
And Germany's defence leaders are also taking the threat from Moscow seriously, with the Bundeswehr preparing for a hybrid Russian attack on NATO's eastern flank by the summer of 2025.
The secret 'Alliance Defence 2025' document details how Russia will mobilise another 200,000 soldiers in Russia before launching a spring offensive against Ukrainian forces in Spring this year. " - Daily Mail
Source: [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12964575/Germany-preparing-Putin-attack-against-NATO-2025-Leaked-secret-plans-reveal-step-step-Russia-escalate-conflict-war-18-months.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12964575/Germany-preparing-Putin-attack-against-NATO-2025-Leaked-secret-plans-reveal-step-step-Russia-escalate-conflict-war-18-months.html)
​
**Good reads:**
[https://www.euronews.com/2024/01/16/germany-lays-out-exercise-scenario-for-a-potential-conflict-between-nato-and-russia](https://www.euronews.com/2024/01/16/germany-lays-out-exercise-scenario-for-a-potential-conflict-between-nato-and-russia)
[https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-russia-germany-boris-pistorius-nato/](https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-russia-germany-boris-pistorius-nato/)
Thank you. Very, very sober take. If anyone wants to know what a war with Russia could look like read this:
[https://twitter.com/FRHoffmann1/status/1746589423251403236](https://twitter.com/FRHoffmann1/status/1746589423251403236)
TLDR: We should prepare for a war that does not look like conventional warfare(like in Ukraine), but rather a war where Russia is trying to fight us "asymmetrical": blitz occupation, infrastructure. We have 2-3 years to prepare
Why you so alarmist? You sound like those pesky scientists circa 2010 who said that one day a major pandemic would break out in the world. Get back to work.
Honestly we got lucky with that one… sure we got a pandemic but it could have been much worse that it was/is. The bad part is we have proven we are incapable of dealing with a pandemic so when one shows up that’s deadlier and more infectious we will be fucked.
Yeah it ain’t over yet. I also learned that >50% of the nurses at my health system are contract/agency nurses instead of staff nurses that actually work for the health system. Covid ravaged the health system, and I guess we’re just not talking about it?
Nursing [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU6562300001](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU6562300001)
has struggled to keep up with population growth [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/POPTOTUSA647NWDB](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/POPTOTUSA647NWDB)
Similar issues in other industries: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS)
I haven't seen any studies yet but I'd wager the pandemic coinciding with boomer retirements is doing a number on industry knowledge drain too
This. I don't think the majority of people realize just how much the healthcare system is on life support. I've been reconciling myself to the eventual reality of dying from something simple like an infected toenail, just like in the old days.
“We are ending the era of endless wars. It is not the job of American forces to solve ancient conflicts in faraway lands that many people have not even heard of."
Guess who said it!
I long as I get issued a personal nuke and/or biological weapon, I won’t feel that I am prepared for any possible contingency should an enemy appear before me /s. !!!
If so, why isn’t there a lot of people fighting against the government right now? The internet and Reddit isn’t the majority. I believe that people will either fight for it or against it, not more than the other.
This statement really deserves some explanation:
"The Foreign Secretary urged Britain’s allies not to push for peace talks between Kyiv and Moscow, arguing that unifying behind Ukraine was the best way to end the war"
The UK is warmongering for WW3 now?
"Get ready for WW3! No peace talks! We want war!" is basically what they're saying.
crazy times
I'll level with you, I am absolutely not getting drafted. Fighting the guys that come to get me might be certain death, but sprinting into a Russian minefield at gunpoint is also certain death, and the first one does more to protect my countrymen than the second one.
A 20 year collapse is way too ambitious. Catabolic collapse will likely take decades and be a stop-and-go thing. Life isn't a Roland Emmerich movie where you wake up one morning and it's all normal and then, a few dramatic, CGI-filled hours later, collapse is "done" and it's time for the survivors to begin eking out a life in the newly-virgin post-collapse world.
Collapse will happen faster in some places that others. There will be good years and bad years obscuring the overall downward trend. We probably won't even know we've hit the bottom until long after we've reached it.
The main issue is how fragile our agricultural systems are, we're always only a couple weeks away from billions starving to death. I think it would also be good to consider how chaotic individuals would be. For example, say some highly populous country at the forefront of ecological collapse like India just says "fuck it" and releases nuclear armageddon because they are done for either way. That scenario is not hard to imagen at all.
"There will be no "collapse" the way some of these people think of it. It's not going to be like the movie "Dawn of the Dead" or whatever where one day suddenly shit hits the fan and prices skyrocket and everyone begins to riot and the SS comes marching down the street to kill everyone. There will be no "happening". It's far more insidious than that. Read the poem "The Hollow Men" by TS ELiot and you'll understand.
You'll just notice that every day simple things will become a little more expensive. Everyone's homes and apartments will start to get smaller. your work hours will get longer, but your pay will decrease. You'll see family and friends less, and find that in time you care less about them. Every day you'll find yourself lowering your standards for everything: work, food, relationships, etc. Job security will no longer exist as a concept. You'll notice houses and apartments shrinking. People will start hanging on clothing longer and longer. Less people will get married, even less will have children. People will engross themselves in technological distractions and fantasy while never truly experiencing the real world.
Whatever dream people used to have about what their lives were going to be will become for them a distant memory. The only thing left for them will be the reality of their debt and their poverty. And every minute of every day they will be told: "You are stupid, ugly and weak, but together we are free, prosperous and safe."
That is the collapse. The reduction of the American man into a feudal serf, incapable of feeling love or hate, incapable of seeing the pitiful nature of his situation for what it is or recognizing his own self worth."
Pats himself on the back while describing ***decline*** rather than ***collapse of law & order & catastrophic decrease in complexity within techno-industrial civilization***
Lol
This is ludicrous. The volume of geopolitical strife and chaos is unprecedented not only in our era, but all of human history. The difference between the geopolitics of now vs say, WWII simply is that particular conflict was far more kinetically advanced than the rapidly deteriorating diplomatic conditions we are seeing across our civilization, of which the proxy means of recent times are no longer serving their purpose as a pressure relieving tool. I believe that WWIII began on October 7th 2023 and even during the height of WWII, it wasn't commonly referred to as a world war until some time post hostilities.
WWII was just a vastly different type of war as reflected by improved technology, and a generally more mature state of industrialization, when compared to the present day global conflict that's in its offing.
Anyone who believes that we are 20 years out from WWIII is being manipulated by propaganda.
On September 3rd 1939 a Danish newspaper ran the headline "The Second World War broke out yesterday at 11am" and Time Magazine called it World War II on September 11th 1939. By mid 1940 it was pretty much accepted by everyone in the English world that it was the Second World War.
They weren't all that far removed from the First World War (the World War up until that point) and understood the gravity of what was beginning fairly early on. I hadn't though about it before this but the amount of time between the two World Wars was less than them amount of time between the September 11 attacks and today.
IDK man. I'm from South America and the water rights for most rivers in my country (ca. 80%) are owned by European companies. Imperialist scavenging of oversea resources doesn't really seem like a stretch.
The floods will take out half of the worlds cities soon enough. It doesn't have to destroy them, its going to make everything damp and moldy. That will make you very sick.
Australia effectively shut its borders to its citizens living overseas during COVID. We didn't get to see our teenage son, who was living by himself in university accommodation and needed our help, for about two years. That was pretty wild. Great data though; if things get hairy, you're on your own. Doesn't matter what is printed in your passport.
You should read the 3 body problem. Or the second 2 books were it talks about how countries respond to existential threat. Kinda crazy how close the truth and fiction are.
There is an [asteroid ](https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/asteroids/apophis/) that is going to pass dangerously close to the Earth on Friday, April 13th, 2029. They say that they don't think it's going to hit us, but I think an asteroid is the great reset we need. An impact of that magnitude could cause a pole shift leading to massive shockwaves, tsunamis, and substantial flooding. Somehow I feel like if the universe doesn't intervene, we're going to blow ourselves off the planet anyway.
For some reason, they decided to name this asteroid Apophis - the demon serpent who personified evil and chaos in ancient Egyptian mythology. But hey, I'm sure everything will be just fine. Just don't look up! Isn't there a new iPhone? Do you have a self-driving car yet? Have you seen how well the stock market is doing?!
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They ruled out an impact of the specific asteroid referenced above, [Apophis](https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/asteroids/apophis/). As for other potential impacts yes, it’s possible they’ve missed something but they’ve gotten pretty good at tracking near earth objects. I think the danger more in lies with something on a long orbit from the Oort Cloud or Kuiper Belt, we may not have picked up yet. Although they’ve also gotten good at picking up and tracking things in the Kuiper Belt as well. So, I wouldn’t say there’s no risk, there’s always risk in anything but there’s at least no risk of the Apophis asteroid.
Fun fact, the Chicxulub asteroid is roughly equivalent to 2,000,000 Tsar Bombas (50 megatons TNT equivalent bomb, largest nuclear device). So we can safely say that the Chicxulub was at least a couple orders of magnitude greater in destructive force. So millions of years ago the earth got hit with something more powerful than even our nuclear weapons today. Another Chicxulub level asteroid would certainly be enough to trigger a human extinction event.
Tell that to the people being repeatedly bombed the world around; you’re privileged and sheltered from it because you exist under the storm shelter created by plundered worldly goods; the ill gotten gains of capitalism. Places like the Middle East and Africa are not, nor is eastern Europe anymore. It’s just a matter of time before the shit flung off the blades of the fans splats you in the face too.
My point is those skirmishes are isolated to small parts of the world. I am talking nuclear holocaust and the end of society. Poop has not hit the fan.
I will be messaging you in 20 years on [**2044-01-20 20:56:50 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2044-01-20%2020:56:50%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/19bihj7/top_nato_official_urges_civilians_as_well_as/kishnc0/?context=3)
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Yep. Famines will wipe out medium sized nations in the time period. Maybe some of the more stable regions will have better luck with smaller populations and keeping the lights on.
ROFL. Fastest way to end a war in the 1st world is conscription. The US learned that in Vietnam, why else did we get such great music out of that time period??? Conscription galvanizes opposition. I mean really though, what the fuck is the point of killing each other and over what? Some dirt, some oil, some pride? A holy book?
I would rather die than every fight in support of western powers. I have no allegiance to the US. In fact I feel the opposite. The world would be a far better place without the power the US holds so yeah, if they think I’m gonna do a damn thing to benefit this godforsaken country, they’re delusional. I’m pretty sure anyone under 40 with a brain feels the same
Yep. This is the main problem. Even if you can survive the biosphere collalse somehow, you will be conscripted, where you are sure to die in some pointless war.
It would not be trivial however, to survive toxic air, sulphuric rain, lack of medicine, food, and water that would have to be resolved to live on this hellhole.
First, you would obviously need to live in an airtight shelter, and get your oxygen either by electrolysis from what little water you can find, or by compressing and filtering what little air is left. You would need multiple backup machines working at the same time, and spare parts for then.
You would need a power source like geothermal or hardened solar panels.
You would need an underground river or filtered air tank.
You would need to grow food underground, scavenging whatever waste you can get outside with a robot or suit, sterilize it, and there would still be a risk of plastic, radioactive, or heavy metal contamination.
You would need to grow whatever plants don't mind living in unnatural, artificial environments and you would need to grow enough of a variety and quantity to survive.
You would need to secure the shelter from thiefs and angry vandals who rightfully think you are rich.
You would have to keep it hidden from any renmants of a military that might want to eliminate you for whatever cynical reason.
And finally you would need the expertise and reserve parts to maintain these over your lifetime. Too many mistakes, and you are doomed. Get just the wrong medical condition randomly? Doomed.
And on top of that, if you want someone to survive after you are long gone, you would need manufacturing capabilities and multiple of these shelters trading together and not fighting amongst each other, and you would need enough of them for redundancy's sake so the human (and some aninal) species inside of them don't go extinct.
On top of all of that, if you run out of, or can't find enough resources, you are all dead.
If this sounds outlandish, impractical, and stupid, it's because it is. We should have gotten rid of the fossil industry before it was too late, and sent the psychos to the appropriate mental asylums that they needed, instead of letting them run society.
Let's remember over 70% of Americans are too fat / drug addicted / mentally ill to qualify for service. The MIC has drones and nukes though, they don't really need soldiers anymore. The war can practically fight itself.
Im not sure I understand this talk of the need of manpower for WW3. Doesnt every wargame/simulation for it always end in the use of nukes? How are more manpower gonna flip any scale in that case?
It will happen during the next US presidency if Trump is elected. So more like 2-4 years time. It's the last time Putin will be able to use the republicans. Putin will be 76 years old when the next presidency is over. He wants to do this now. As soon as possible.
>It will happen during the next US presidency if Trump is elected.
Biden has got us involved in multiple conflicts and is talking about an extended engagement in Yemen, if anything Trump is less likely to get us into WW3
Republicans are willingly letting Putin gather momentum in Ukraine by withholding support. They seem to have no issue with Ukraine being demolished by a much larger aggressor. So I guess the way to prevent war would be to let Putin have it his way? Is that your idea of peace?
Yup, the parallels with 1913 and 1938 are remarkable and undeniable. The stage is being set for The Grand Finale. This year I going to be interesting to say the least.
I'll be too old. These morons want to stop China because if they don't they're going to face the 2nd world status along with most of the declining west that aligned themselves to a corporate war racketeering model.
So just more of the same. It's in the old rich pigs interests to send your kind to die on a battlefield for them.
I'm not worried about Russia. If it comes down to it, Putins own generals will take him out. It almost happened last year, and was only stopped because he cut a deal with the guy marching for him. Their military has been torn to pieces by Ukraine. I'd be more worried about the Finns marching on St. Petersburg than I am about Russia marching on the US.
Guess I'm safe from conscription as I am overweight, cataract in one eye, half deaf and auto immune disease.
Question is, how many will be conscripted as many are having health issue like me because many can't afford good quality Healthcare in particular US? Not talking about the amount of people being overweight?
I'd sooner be an "ecoterrorist" than fight for one of their stupid wars. Better to fight for a cause I believe in if I'm going to be jailed and/or murdered for one of those stupid fucks at the top.
I'm not in Europe, but have been thinking for a while that conscription will be re-introduced right around the time my son will be coming of age (\~2030). Regardless what happens with Russia, climate change is going to lead to conflicts and masses of refugees all over the place.
Does anyone else think Russia is holding out for a Republican win? They are not doing so great rn. If that doesn’t happen I think they will spiral. If the R’s get the win this year tho, we are going to end up in ww3 in the next 10 years for sure.
They are preparing for a trump presidency..who will not fight with Europe and wants to withdraw from NATO. They can see he’s a danger to their interests.
Easy to say massive deficits are normal during “war time”. Problem is pretty damm hard to tell the difference these days between being “at war” and all the deployed troops fighting people in “not a war” actions constantly.
In order to get AI online without major risks they will need to limit its reach. The lack of capital/productivity behind upgrading the electrical grid even with the ev push and the AI push we already have provides us with a direction they are likely to go. Either lights out or just disconnect us from the internet. We’ve been getting hints like articles saying get used to not owning anything pushing people to go and buy physical goods, more utilities are advertising on the radio about what to do and how to prepare for blackouts, JPMorgan’s last prediction for this year was brown outs. We will be in the dark and have no knowledge about what is happening besides what we are told or hear. Can people keep it together? Can people who have relied on their devices their whole lives seek help for a path forward without the internet? Yes.
Why in the next twenty years?
If you know that you plan on starting a war with Russia, why would you publish this article? How is Russia supposed to react to hearing that their most powerful adversary is prepared for an inevitable war?
This article is strange and we should consider the intentions behind the people involved in publishing it.
I love how they pretend a war with Russia wouldn’t go nuclear in the first few days. None of this conscription bullshit matters when the nukes start flying. NATO knows this which is why they’re putting so much emphasis on private sector development. These warmongering idiots just want to help their friends out in the defense industry. NATO should’ve dissolved and replaced with something better after the Cold War, but certain powers were not going to let that happen. Now, after 30 years, they finally found their reason to exist again.
Interesting as well that Grant Shapps, a pale imitation of a human being that is our current UK defence secretary, said in a [speech](https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/defending-britain-from-a-more-dangerous-world) recently:
*“We find ourselves at the dawn of this new era – the Berlin Wall a distant memory – and we’ve come full circle, moving from a post-war to pre-war world.”*
There are slimy UK politics at play here. Conservative voters get hard for *WHAAR!* and this is a conservative party in an election year facing a landslide defeat, and they're desperately throwing anything out there in hopes of gaining some votes.
But there is a worrying trend happening right now, like psychologically we're being prepared. Like Iraq some 20 years ago, the topic of going war was a constant in the media, endless debates and analysis until eventually the invasion happened to some uproar from the public but most were apathetic about it. Remember, an *illegal* war as well.
It feels like world leaders and the media machine are gearing to once again to get the general public comfortable with the idea of war again. Keep talking about it, debating it, and it'll become just as casual and routine as your morning coffee.
Loyalty to country does not exist anymore because governments are shitting on natives in favor of immigrants. Send the immigrants to the front, to prove their allegiance.
You’re okay with war as long as you aren’t the one dying- is that it?
Be better than that- it’s fucking embarrassing you see immigrants as subhuman cannon fodder. You’re a fucking human just like them- act like it.
Politicians are okay with war, so long as they or their children doesnt die in it. Politicians give free lodging and benefits to immigrants while natives lives on the street. They have made their choice clear. They deserve each other.
When diplomats fail, they should be the first to be shot. Suddenly, we will have peace in our time. War is a crime against civilians on all sides.
I pity the millions of lives you’re willing to write off.
You’re far closer to the immigrants than you are to the people in charge. You’re willing to have those lives sacrificed for your own security and comfort- rather than see them as fellow human beings that have also been hurt by this fucked up world.
It doesn’t matter. A hard as heart as that won’t soften to a Reddit comment. I’m not going to debate you any further- I only hope you’re shown the same mercy and grace you extend to others.
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Gee, if only someone had said this years ago...
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/s/GpwiiwxTvK
https://wastelandbywednesday.com/2022/04/04/how-the-war-in-ukraine-impacts-the-world/
They will slowly keep announcing little bits and pieces, each worse than the last, to try and get the general public used to the idea of ww3 inevitably happening. Which they have also known for some time now.
Don't want to cause a panic, right? People might get themselves ready or something, can't have that.
i remember that post m8. its been 2 years already? that the mans is now actually literally telling us to get ready cant get much clearer. just sprinkle in a little faster than expected and i think the match might be lit already but the fuse aint caught yet
Have too many young, unemployed, unhappy men in your country? Afraid of social unrest and revolution? Just start a war! It's the easy solution that governments have used for thousands of years. No need to improve the lives of people in your country-- just kill them for an ideological cause.
True, but the October Revolution happened in *part* because the military allowed it, right?
With the US military as caught up in moneyed interests as it is, it's difficult to imagine they'd do the same. The military industrial complex exists as it does because of capital
Yes you are right. The common people have NEVER made a revolution on their own. The Bolsheviks were very lucky and dozens of factors were in their favor.
Conscription for what? They have the tech to do this shit with drones and missles, EMP, economic warfare, etc. Ground wars are nearly obsolete. It's meat for the grinder to depopulate..it's gotta be the only reason to bring troops in
If you're fighting an actual war where the intent is to defeat your enemy, the only way to do so it to have boots on the ground, taking and holding territory. Everything else can make that easier, but you still need people with rifles on the ground.
The U.S. dollar, as the world's reserve currency, is the single greatest weapon the United States has ever possessed. Even Britain in its empire phase didn't have the advantage of being able to print an international fiat currency on a scale and scope the U.S. has enjoyed for the last 50 years. It's pretty much unparalleled in modern history—if not world history.
So, in this vein, much of the current conflicts we see in and around the world right now involving the U.S., and its allies, are in service of protecting this weapon/tool/instrument: *the dollar*. In some form or another. It is, by and large, what affords organizations like NATO to begin with. But, as is the case with all empires, they face challenges as they age and decay. Undoubtedly, the U.S. is no different. As political scientist Aaron Good puts it:
> ["Whitey McDollar's eyes are flashing before his eyes"](https://youtu.be/WQCdvv4sDfQ?t=4758)
All the natural resources of Russia on the world market and the export power of China in alignment trading outside the dollar system? That's a big problem for Wall St., Washington, and the dollar. So you can pretty much damn well bet that Whitey McDollar is not going down without some kind of a fight. At some point.
NATO is making an exercise that is conveniently next the Ukrainian border - just as they say that Ukraine is weeks or months from losing the war.
It may mean that NATO intends to enter Ukraine as soon as Ukraine is lost - which means that NATO and Russia will meet inside Ukraine.
If that is not a recipe for disaster I dont know what is.
Conscription, eh? They’d better tell their pals in the food industry to stop selling the canon fodder junk food then, otherwise their army is going to be a lot of out-of-shape junk food addicts.
Conscript recruiters are gonna run into booby trapped neighborhoods, or just simply get shot on sight by people. Hopefully it turns into a dangerous job. Fuck that I'm not destroying my body, leaving my loved ones and possibly dying for rich cunts who hide in their gated communities. My dad served in the navy and he told me endlessly not to enlist
IMPERIALIST WAR IS NECESSARY AND INEVITABLE UNDER CAPITALISM
workers of the world need to unite to end imperialist war! join your local communist party
join the imt at socialistrevolution.org/join for us socialist.org for uk and marxist.com for worldwide
join the international communist party at
international-communist-party.org
So we're definitely going to see some event that will put a lot of blood and mass death in the futures history books. People said it was impossible and not worth it and now it seems inevitable.
I think the Ukraine war has shown that drones are a lot more effective then conscripts. Nato should be focusing on accumulating drones and using AI instead of conscription.
NATO, you should consider spending the next twenty years asking yourselves, "What should I say to and do to the public I rule so that twenty years from now when I ask, 'Please, will you die for me' they say 'Yes, NATO, I will die for you.'"
I'n not gonna give the whole thing away, but as a hint, it doesn't start with the words "Donald Trump" or "Joe Biden."
The following submission statement was provided by /u/jacktherer:
---
obviously collapse related because this sort of conflict can literally destroy the world. also even without military conflict, nations may collapse when they realize their populations arent healthy enough for conscription
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/19bihj7/top_nato_official_urges_civilians_as_well_as/kirus47/
In the TV show, “The Great” when war is breaking our between Russia and Sweden the King of Sweden says it could last for years and Peter says, “We’re Russian, we don’t care how many people die.” The show is a comedy-drama very loosely based on real events.
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