will always be a demand for linux admin for the foreseeable future
Posted by Coco4Tech69@reddit | linuxadmin | View on Reddit | 68 comments
is it fair to say that there will always be a demand for linux admin for the foreseeable future?
tantrrick@reddit
Nah Linux is set to expire in a couple months. We're all going to mac
Moterwire_Hellfire@reddit
Mac in a hosting environment sounds like the stuff of nightmares
williamt31@reddit
Apple did use to make and sell rack mount servers. It's been a long time but it was a thing.
Moterwire_Hellfire@reddit
Yeah I had an XServe that I was trying to use as part of a home lab. I sold it because it made more sense to use a Dell server.
PudgyPatch@reddit
Hello
AhMyMayo@reddit
It's me
Sea-Secretary-4389@reddit
I have an xserve and that fucker doesn’t even get plugged in. Purely collection item
safrax@reddit
And they were absolutely terrible in every way.
wezelboy@reddit
They had some upside. XSAN was really inexpensive for the performance you could wring out of it.
deritchie@reddit
XSAN is Qunatum StorNext in a previous life.
titanicx@reddit
I've managed one. It sucked having to need so many additional tools for an offer priced useless server.
IDatedSuccubi@reddit
There are some cloud providers that host apple M images for devs that can't port stuff
Few-Platypus1816@reddit
Hard to tell if the backdoors are a feature or a breach
DimestoreProstitute@reddit
Got my HMCSA cert last week.
Hanna Montana Certified System Administrator
deac714@reddit
One thing I have been telling new or new ish admins: learn to program for a couple of reasons.
Roles in bigger organizations are looking more like site reliability engineering roles than sysadmin ones and those roles require some code chops.
Configuration management is everywhere and it is a force multiplier for work...but it is code still so learning how to write and manage code matters.
Many services on which your org will rely may be SaaS based. Integrating and maintaining these integrations will likely fall to sysadmins in some orgs.
Le_Messager@reddit
What’s a good language?
deac714@reddit
What is a good language depends on what you do a lot of and what platform you use. One language I think is useful is Python. It is an extremely flexible language.
FairRip@reddit
In 1990s......
"There will always be a demand for SunOS/Solaris admin for the foreseeable future"
PianoEasy6883@reddit
We still use Solaris 10, albeit not many. But we have plenty of solsris 11.4 zones.
FairRip@reddit
Yes, in the late 90s about 90% of the internet ran on SunOS/Solaris. Things change.
Bill_Guarnere@reddit
You forgot to mention that Solaris was used (and is still used today) by a tiny tiny tiny percentage of servers, while Linux is the de facto standard, and everyone using a container is using linux, everyone using an embedded device is using linux, and so on...
So no, I'm sorry you're completely missing the point...
Frugal_Caterpillar@reddit
Okay, since I'm new to this game I actually had to google SunOS/Solaris but... this is an OS, right? If so, not sure if the saying can really apply to Linux in this case. Linux is a very wide umbrella covering a huge number of distributions that run on Linux kernel. If one of those distros gets deprecated for any reason, another will just take the place.
gargravarr2112@reddit
I went to a uni that was originally a Sun shop so I learned Solaris firsthand, though they were moving to Ubuntu. SunOS/Solaris was indeed an OS, it was Sun's take on Berkley Unix. In the 90s, Unix was much like Linux is today - very heavily fragmented, with lots of distros based on either AT&T/Bell Labs' Unix, or Berkley's version. And the corporations were very aggressive with protecting the Unix trademark, so the different branches got different names - HP-UX, IRIX, AIX... It may surprise you that even Microsoft had their own Unix branch for a while. AIX and (to my knowledge) HP-UX are still going, mostly due to legacy momentum in huge enterprises, but for the most part, Linux has supplanted Unix due in part to licensing simplicity. SCO infamously tried to assert their own trademark ownership on Unix, which caused a lot of companies to hesitate in carrying it forwards and switch to Linux instead.
I worked in a research lab until last year where all the analysis and storage systems were RHEL-based Linux, but the backup system, written in-house, was still running on AIX (and probably still is, though there's a project to port it to Linux).
Basically, the commenter is saying that even if there's a currently huge market for it, that CAN change in 20 years. So never say never.
The good thing is, Linux is classed as a Unix-like. It's based on the same paradigms and the skills are transferable. So switching from being a Solaris admin to a Linux admin is nowhere near as painful as e.g. Unix to Windows. Transferable skills are the best way to survive in the sysadmin field.
IDatedSuccubi@reddit
Watch "A chronicle of the Unix wars" by Asionometry
szayl@reddit
I feel so old now.
Frugal_Caterpillar@reddit
New to this game as in - recently made a break into the sysadmin role. I'm pushing 30s, don't worry. I was around when SunOS was a thing, I just didn't know about it :)
gargravarr2112@reddit
On the other hand, those skills are transferable. BSD is used pretty heavily. And even into Linux.
And in fairness, nobody could have seen the Oracle acquisition coming in the 90s. The dot-com burst didn't do them any favours and they never had the same market share again, but I think it's not unreasonable that Sun would still be kicking if not for Oracle.
BoltLayman@reddit
Well, well, we are always smarty pants 25 years later.
1997 - NT4
1998 - RHL5.* series.
2000/01 - RHL6 & Windows2000 releases.
2003 - Athlon x64 and the state of X11 and Gnome/KDE environments.
2003 - Windows Server 2003 series as well as absolutely mature MS RDP by that time.
Intel Xeon processors were the last nails.
For marketing and tech departments that should have sounded a very distressful red alarm. With RH switching to Enterprise market.
Notmyotheraccount_10@reddit
Red hat still exists and windows servers too.
I don't get your comment.
BoltLayman@reddit
surprisingly< Sun's legacy exists too...
stupv@reddit
Solaris is still kicking around in weird places, utilising it is a skill ever Linux admin benefits from having even if run&maintain on those systems isn't the industry standard that perhaps someone thought it would be
Horace-Harkness@reddit
My company is looking to hire a Solaris admin. Some places change slowly...
Few-Platypus1816@reddit
2024 is the year of the Linux desktop
the_bolshevik@reddit
Every year is the year of the linux desktop 🤡
FunIllustrious@reddit
Has been for me for about twenty years.
darphinious@reddit
TL;DR: Yes.
The rest
I don't see why not. I've been a Linux Systems Administrator for .. over 23 years now ?? I was playing with RedHat, Slackware and Debian in my friend's attic with him in the mid 90's, and then moved to Austin in 2000 to start my career. Dell tech support hellscape for six months, and then jumped into my first Linux admin position 6 months later.
Keep in mind Linux was less popular back then, and this question was *quite* relevant, and I would say at the time I was taking a gamble on the longevity of my career. It isn't a gamble, especially now. Linux is not just here to stay but is daily more and more popular both for server and user-space. Windows is .. something. It's there, it has a massive market share, you can make a career out of *just* Windows but I'd like you to really rethink what your intent or focus is here.
I'm a Linux admin, but I've worked with almost every branch of Unix, I daily work with Mac and Windows, and I also have been heavily focused on container technologies, and virtualization. Tech is about use case, and you, the admin, your job is to show up and provide the best solution for the task. Whose, best solution you may ask ?? That's a great question, and the old mantra of "Pay yourself first" holds true here. You choose, but you better be prepared to support it. The underpinnings (OS) are fucking irrelevant at that point.
For example:
That's being an admin. For 20+ years. You're the bulwark against security holes, idiots who think they know better than you, as well as the harbinger of your own pain or joy and delight. I have some admins out here telling me they do whatever their higher ups tell them. That's either Yes Man weakness, fear, or it's an understanding that you need to pick your battles. Sometimes, you just do what the CEO or CTO asks, because you know you can support it. Other times you tell them to eat a bag of dicks because their idea is fucking stupid and you'd rather quit than do what they suggest. There's reasons for all of it, and keeping yourself boxed into one OS, means you'll always be that much more fearful, that much less able, to stand up for yourself.
Linux, is not all that and a bag of cookies. It's a well supported, well designed, capable, stable tool. That's it. Windows too, Mac too. It's always, and ever, about use case.
ollybee@reddit
Yes but you get called different names. Linux sysadmin, DevOps engineer, site reliability engineer. I don't know what next name will be
Coolbsd@reddit
I bet there will be a position named with AI related term in a year or two like, generative approver?
ollybee@reddit
There's already promt engineer 🤮
idkau@reddit
Cloud engineer is what I am so there is that and sysops teams
Coco4Tech69@reddit (OP)
well thats good to know when job searching..
I love that linux is so versatile.
Wrx-Love80@reddit
Especially in the financial industry, tons of orgs will often times use an off the shelf banking software and that vendor will have some variation of linux in their platform suite for possible long term archiving and storage.
Linux will be around for a very long time, unless all orgs and financial institutions migrate away from Unix, Linux and COBOL, linux is going to be around for a very long time. Someone I used to work with put it best,
Windows is great for (1) user at a time. Linux is great for many users at a time.
stonedbanana83@reddit
laughs in COBOL
cwheeler33@reddit
The “sysadmin” is becoming “devops”… all the bobo stuff is being automated out.
Turbulent_Sample487@reddit
Yes, but demand will slowly grow less over time. AI code gen tools like CoPilot will put more linux admin type jobs in the hands of developers and as containers continue to replace traditional VMs or hardware, there is less of a need for have system admins at all. Of course, in high density data centers, there will also be a need for linux/systems admins. However, you spin the bottle, all apps run containers and VMs, which have to run on hardware (linux) somewhere.
Bill_Guarnere@reddit
Absolutely, everywhere, on containers, on hosts, on embedded systems, Linux is everywhere...
Regarding Devops that a lot of people is talking about in reply to your post... cmon guys it's only a buzzword, every devops operator is a linux sysadmin, and you can't grasp containers or orchastrators or cd/ci without a soild background on linux...
All the things that makes doveops are trivial tools (like orchestrators or cd/ci tools), most of them are totally useless for most of the companies and use cases, what's important is understanding what's going on in the background, and that's the work of linux sysadmins.
gargravarr2112@reddit
I sure hope so, I've bet my career on it and gone all in on Linux...
DeVoh@reddit
yes and no.. There are more and more tools to automate admin functions. Like ansible, cheff, ServerAutomation, etc.. I've seen 10k Linux server environments ran by two admins.. so yes Linux admin jobs still are a thing but if that is all you know you have little job security IMHO.
HTDutchy_NL@reddit
Demand for pure linux admins is shrinking.
I've actually got no idea what to call myself if I would need to enter the job market right now. I've pulled our software kicking and screaming into the cloud. I guess that makes me a cloud engineer/architect. But I still need my linux knowledge as soon as our kubernetes env throws a weird error none of the devs understand.
TheSwedishEagle@reddit
There will be demand but the demand is shrinking and will continue to shrink. Already a lot of the knowledge I learned over past decades is esoteric and almost useless to most employers unless they have en prem systems. Very few people care about drivers or luns or the difference between write through and write back cache.
The OS still has to be managed by someone, of course, but automated orchestration means instead of 1 admin managing 40 servers (the ratio 20 years ago) it might be 1 admin managing 400 or even 4000 instances. There will still be some grunt work in the data center at the cloud providers of course but that is low skill, low wage work. I wouldn’t even call it entry level although there will have to be a few more highly skilled and competent people around to fix complicated problems.
Someone said that instead of treating servers as pets with individual names and personalities they are now treated more like cattle. One acts up and you put it down and just spin up another. Forget troubleshooting. It’s a waste of time. We spend more time now trying to estimate the cloud costs than we do understanding hardware specs. That is the realm of accountants and cost analysts more than pure admins or system engineers. Former admins can put their skills to use there but they aren’t highly technical roles and won’t be compensated as if they are.
So, yes, admins and the demand for their skills will exist but I suspect the demand will dwindle greatly. It already is. What I foresee more demand for is large scale system-level architecture and probably also cybersecurity to some extent as someone still needs to do red team, forensics, compliance, etc. As mentioned, a person with a technical background that can calculate costs and estimate performance is a useful person to have, especially in conjunction with a system architect and software architect. They might even contribute to those roles if they are very skilled.
Think of cloud as outsourcing. You outsource all your IT (including admins) to the cloud provider who has figured out how to do things at scale with far fewer people. You can work for the cloud provider doing one of the jobs that remain, you can help keep the cloud providers honest and help choose between them and their offerings (sort of a contract technical manager), you can get involved with security, or you can switch to a developer role to help provision the resources (IaaS).
That’s my take. It’s not a field I would aspire to be in today. There was a time when the sysop was like a god and knew all the kernel internals and lots of good CS students were interested. I don’t see that anymore. No good CS students want to do that kind of work except maybe as a 1st year intern. Maybe. All the best people are 40+ years old and none under 30 from what I see.
-quakeguy-@reddit
One of the greatest misconceptions to ever exist is ”we are going to move to the cloud so we won’t need any admins”. There been some people under a genuine impression that once the migration is complete, it will be Microsoft who will be managing everything.
I can only imagine the Pikachu-faces in the room as they eventually call Microsoft support to create some NSGs or shuffle around some volumes and are told to get lost.
SuperQue@reddit
Our servers have a mean uptime of 7 days. Auto-scaling groups cycle out their nodes LIFO. We basically don't even patch anymore, new patches get published to our OS image pipeline and get rolled out as the ASG rolls over nodes.
Oh, that's still there. It's just different. We're looking at repeatable issues. Things we can see in our obserability tooling or have reproducible cases.
I still see lots of this. We have neat tools coming out using eBPF. There's still people working interested in diving into kernel internals.
MrGunny94@reddit
Linux is among the best technologies to learn in IT as it’s the backbone of everything enterprise
campr23@reddit
2024 is the year of Linux on the desktop.
nullbyte420@reddit
🙏
Frugal_Caterpillar@reddit
I mean server world runs on Linux. It's fully open source for anyone who wants to use it, it's simple yet still it's very broad - man, Linux is a tinkerer's heavenly creation. Ain't no way in hell that's gonna stop anytime soon.
Dereference_operator@reddit
to be honest I am not sure it's not gonna be like most windows admins where everything on MS side seem to be getting automated or ran in the cloud, MS future is pretty clear a tin client with all the management done in the cloud ... we will have nothing to do at some point except clicking next on some pretty webpage etc everything will be in Azure or automated with PS/AI/Cloud services etc
on the Linux side the way I see things is about the same with the Cloud except it's going to be more Amazon Linux now, Amazon linus they said online is the most distributed linux distro in the world and it's obvious so I think everything will be automated in containers, k8 clusters or some Amazon premade config scenario (IAC, iso's, containers, premade config scenario ansible whatever the company use)
so where we are going with all that ? on premise is going to be reduced to a all time low around the world except at the biggest of company (where most ppl wont work) and more and more of the operating system intricacies like low level management will become less and less important and popular (a bit like C++ programmer are today, there is still a lot but not compared to C#/Javascript it's becoming a niche language/fields) so the same will happen with managing operating system in low level details in my view and most kids who will get out of university will never touch on premise tech of today's, think of big storage clusters array and anything special a company use in their on premise datacenter they will go directly to the cloud with 0 knowledge of on premise most of the time and it will create a huge clusters fuck of problems in my view because what we are starting to see now is most company hate their big multi millions dollars cloud bills so on premise is coming back a little but not enough so it will be interesting to see nobody see the future but I hate how things are getting automated because it's not "true IT anymore" in way if you understand what I mean...
on the network side pure cisco/juniper person are even having their things changing a bit, you can provision some switches and others network stuffs from cloud now and others specialized tools, so the use of IOS native is becoming less and less important (still important) but it's changing...
kai_ekael@reddit
Rotten Microsoft is forcing desktop ads now, yet too many have no idea there is something better to use. Sad. Just like the last 30 years.
Dereference_operator@reddit
yes, I will work with Linux now and only play with Windows, have a dual boot with all my games installed on a Win10 partition and the rest Linux may do the transition for good this year not sure yet but not upgrading to Win11 anytime soon it sucks too much... I really hate the way MS is going.. I miss the days of installing a old windows system and controlling 100% of your system the way you wanted without telemetry or all that intelligence crap updates and everything in between they are forcing down our throat
coolcosmos@reddit
Be prepared to learn a lot of things and you'll alright.
efxhoy@reddit
Peak under the hood of any “modern cloud native devops stack”, it’s all bash all the way down.
traversecity@reddit
Snakes too, Python. At some py experience is desirable.
justinDavidow@reddit
Pretty sure I completely automated away all my linux needs a few years back.
All 1600+ instances.
/s
Depends on what kind of admin. If you "read logs and create tickets" => Prob not a long term job prospect these days.
fishmapper@reddit
As long as devops exists, there will still be a need for a Linux sysadmin. Not complaining; management giving devs root access is job security.
abotelho-cbn@reddit
In a sense. Responsibilities may shift, and a "SysAdmin" may lean more towards DevOps type work, but there will always be someone managing servers and infrastructure.
theblindness@reddit
Yes, but Linux admin job description will change. You'll still need to keep up with new technologies like kubernetes.
DarrenRainey@reddit
The job market is always changing but someone will likely be needed to maintain those systems for decades to come.
Few-Platypus1816@reddit
What's Linux? Can you send a link to the Docker container?