People complaining about Proxmox having Poor enterprise support, what's your experience with Hyper-V Support?

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Roland_CGN@reddit

where do people complain that proxmox has poor enterprise support?

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needmorehardware@reddit

But I can throw a cat around and find someone who works with Hyper-V, way more than for Proxmox

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BoilingJD@reddit (OP)

Proxmox is just a front for Linux KVM and most public clouds run on KVM, surely there is linux sysadmins out there..

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There are, but they’re more expensive, Microsoft based engineers are everywhere and cheaper overall Plus, some businesses don’t need the added complexity, it’s easier to hire from a big pool and use software loads of people know and can work with This is coming from someone who runs Proxmox at home

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nktech1135@reddit

What this really means is that we need more linux admins. The pool of good linux admins is pretty small so they can demand more money and get it because there are no other available candidates. The issue i see with this is that younger people tend to think linux is an unnecessary skill and or that there are no good linux admin jobs available so don't go and train for it. Also, there is this thing called the blame game that i see a lot on forums like this one. The idea of using linux based systems like proxmox is laughed at just because there is no good support that we can get to fix our problems if things break. I'm puzzled by this mentality, we are sysadmins, figuring out how to fix something that is broken is what we do. Getting support to fix something should be a last resort, unless we're just acting as middle men between end users and support reps in which case i'm not sure if sysadmin should be in our job title.

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darth_static@reddit

The other problem with the lack of Linux sysadmins is that every other sysadmin field is either dumbing down every facet of the job, or is making so many changes on a regular basis it's hard to keep up (looking at you, MS/Azure), neither of which are not conducive to learning Linux. Linux doesn't hold your hand. Linux is unforgiving. Linux will happily let you hose your entire Proxmox cluster if you enter the wrong commands. But at the same time, Linux will let you do **anything,** and it's barely changed in the last 30 years. E.g. I recently set up a machine to simulate a VPN connection from halfway around the world (+50ms latency, +1% jitter, +0.5% dropped packets) by using two NICs. On Linux that's a couple of `tc qdisc` commands. Try doing that on Windows.

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nktech1135@reddit

Linux sysadmin and ms admin feel a little like 2 different fields these days. Maybe we need a new title for the windows/azure admins, "msadmin"? Some days i wonder what this field will look like in 20 years from now. i could see it get to the point where the people that truely know hardware and how to build out a data center will be looked at as wizzards by everyone else because ms will have successfully abstracted everything they do out enough layers that the command line is a memory for most.

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matt95110@reddit

Finding a dedicated Linux admin is expensive as hell, and usually not easy. The smart ones are contractors that charge a crap load of money.

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bgatesIT@reddit

indeed we are lol I am a systems engineer at my 9-5, and a contractor for a local colo facility, and run my own small MSP. my hourly contract rate is $200 an hour with an 8 hour minimum, and if things arrise during my 9-5 day job, i can just up and leave to go and handle them.

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ottdriverssuck@reddit

I am the only Linux engineer at my MSP, they pay me handsomely for it... Much more than pure MS 365 shops are willing to pay.

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bgatesIT@reddit

Im the only Linux/Kubernetes/Network Engineer on my team everyone else is windows admins/engineers, i also can program in Python, Go, lil bit ob obj-c. I get paid decent for my area, but i am chasing that $$$$$ atm so always looking for exciting things

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signal_lost@reddit

Houston. SRE doing this I know is ~200K OTE.

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bgatesIT@reddit

Dayummmmm I’m at 70k right now myself

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TaiGlobal@reddit

If you’re actually working on Linux/kubernetes/network and only making 70k you’re severely under paid. Tbh that’s helpdesk pay.

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bgatesIT@reddit

I am indeed, it’s a super low cost of living area however, probably one of the lowest in the US with not a lot of opportunity, unless I want to go to some metro area which I’m not too fond of, I like my quiet country life

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TaiGlobal@reddit

Respect. There’s could be remote opportunities available for you. How often do you get outside contractor gigs?

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bgatesIT@reddit

Right now I only do contract work for my previous employer which is a local colo facility for crypto mining. They call me every few months with help for some projects or to make a new automation tool and shit like that. I have a contract rate of $200/hr with an 8 hour minimum with them. I also manage the networks and basic services of a few small mom and pop businesses, but nothing crazy honestly, id love to keep doing the contracting thing more and even supporting the other businesses under my own entity

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signal_lost@reddit

Those are rookie numbers. Call yourself a SRE, hit leetcode and go ask for referrals on blind. Look at Levels.fyi for IC3 roles

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matt95110@reddit

You're doing it right.

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sobrique@reddit

Yes. I love Linux. It keeps me in demand and earning good money. I do think there's an element of critical mass there though. A small org can have just one windows guy, and they can do all the needful. But I think a larger enterprise you have a lot of value add from a skilled in house team, and then it matters less if it's Linux or Windows. (Or hybrid as is usually the case). And you can get some useful scale out manageability for large amounts of Linux, so it starts to become more viable/better

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signal_lost@reddit

Good Linux SRE who knows it and various subsystems, can do automation, troubleshoot is what, $200K OTE? Maybe you get a Jr resource 140K a year?

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throwaway9gk0k4k569@reddit

Actual linux sysadmins don't have any need or desire to shitpost on reddit.

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ctrl_alt_lynx@reddit

Yes we do Arch btw

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signal_lost@reddit

Nitro isn’t KVM, I’d argue.

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ptok_@reddit

KVM by itself is bit useless in real life tasks. This frontend is important.

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M365Certified@reddit

Maybe more than Proxmox, but recently left a Hyper-V based setup and finding folks with Hyper-V experience was not easy; not to mention vendor support was awful too.

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TheHundredAcreWoody@reddit

Can I ask what you mean by vendor support for Hyper-V? I immediately went to hardware in my mind, but as long as it is on the WHQL list it will work, which is effectively almost anything.

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nerdyviking88@reddit

A lot of vendors don't provide support for hyper-v natively. You can see this where they don't release anything but OVAs or have issues with the Hyper-V virtual hardware. Had a vendor who provided a call recording appliance who absolutely didn't support it if it was a vm on Hyper-V due to the audio devices.

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M365Certified@reddit

Purchased a large scale backup solution from a huge vendor. they could not provide anyone with experience installing on Hyper-V; install was a massive failure. My team wound up completely re-installing to make it work. Even then some features simply weren't implemented on Hyper-V

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nerdyviking88@reddit

Yep. Sometimes "supported" is a bare minimum

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Zharaqumi@reddit

> someone who works with Hyper-V Exactly. There are a lot of MSPs, who supports Hyper-V environments. In addition, backup vendors doesn't support Proxmox. Proxmox have pbs, which is nice, but for companies with Veeam (or other) licenses. It is important for a lot of companies. We have Hyper-V Cluster in our environment and it is pretty easy to support it. MS support sucks, if you need it. We use Starwinds VSAN as a shared storage, their support helps a lot with Hyper-V, if needed.

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FriendlyITGuy@reddit

There's also plenty of MSP's that have NOC support they can fall back on too, and then finally fall back on Microsoft Partner support.

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ordray@reddit

A lot of people don't understand the difference between standard Microsoft support and their premium support tiers. It's night and day different.

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hyper9410@reddit

You could always switch to agent based backups with veeam, although licensing might be different.

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HJForsythe@reddit

*technically* can't Veeam backup storage appliances like what one might use to host VM images presented over ISCSI? Also you could probably just install the agent directly on the VM even if it would be more difficult to manage. Still I wouldnt do it but you could ...

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TaliesinWI@reddit

It's 2024. I'm not installing an agent in my guests to back them up. Period.

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HJForsythe@reddit

Thats cool. I wasnt either as I said but if you were sold on Proxmox you could but also our vmware licensing only went up by like $300.

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TaliesinWI@reddit

Sure. Wasn't calling you out specifically. :)

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coingun@reddit

Ok zoomer

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TaliesinWI@reddit

You're off by about 25 years.

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tehinterwebs56@reddit

Yes, but this will only give whole LUN based backups, if a user was to delete a file within the file server and you want to restore just that file, you’ll have to fully restore the whole lun and our data deltas would be all over the place. Would be a disaster. Veeam has file system aware and application aware restorability which gives sysadmins granular restore ability. The question isn’t “will it work” the question is how does it work and will it fit my needs.

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moldyjellybean@reddit

I’ve heard MS paid support is top notch . When we had an on premise exchange server one guy used it and said he got someone that was very knowledgeable

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orginal_user_name@reddit

Those days are long gone sadly

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moldyjellybean@reddit

This was the days of on premise exchange but I guess it the stockholders are the only ones that matter so it’s on to monthly subscriptions for OS , and everything

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orginal_user_name@reddit

This is way too correct. I have a coworker with three tickets for the same issue over 100 days old in premier status. 30 minutes into the last call I got dragged in to make some recommended Reddit changes and had to explain to the support staff what the regret they were asking we add did. Don’t worry we just ate more of our support credits for no solution.

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contradude@reddit

It's still out there, you just have to pay for it and most orgs are like "no" until everything is on fire

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OmNomCakes@reddit

Maybe your friend was absurdly lucky. MS paid support is literally the same shit, slightly quicker phone call. Still get some random Indian dude/dudette, still work around the random person's schedule, still don't help with shit. You can actually emulate enterprise ms support quite easily. Just find some arbitrary useless log file, print it all out, and let it fall directly into a shredder because nothing in that file matters anyway. That is talking to ms support, I imagine at all levels, since that's what $$$$ gets you.

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signal_lost@reddit

Do you have an enterprise support agreement with Microsoft, or are you doing pay per ticket support?

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OmNomCakes@reddit

Enterprise baby! Forced to! It's the blood toll paid in order to be allowed to make other overpriced purchases that you don't really want but need to function.

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CARLEtheCamry@reddit

My company is a premier partner (not sure what the actual specific term is), basically the highest level of paid support. They don't even list the SLA's anymore (and that reminds me to ask our rep). It used to be Sev B, contact within 24 hours, Sev A within 4 hours. Sev B you'll get an email from someone offshore at 3AM on a Saturday 4 days later, first asking you to sfc /scannow and then asking you to collect logs, which you'll send and then not hear back for a week unless you really hound them and your rep. It's tempting to put everything as a Sev A, but that hurts me inside as someone who uses a ticketing system.

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ottdriverssuck@reddit

Same story here... I'll just figure it out myself k thanks bye.

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OmNomCakes@reddit

I was typing this same shit and saw your reply after submitting. I'm glad it's not just me. Why are you calling me at 3am? Dis is my scedul sir Okay. Can you give the ticket to someone that works us hours? No sir Why not? I am afraid I cannot Why not? You can open new ticket sir. Okay well im going back to bed Ok I call again tomorrow byebye

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MzCWzL@reddit

/s right?

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DapperAstronomer7632@reddit

Yup. They 'work' with it. Find someone that understands ProxMox/LCX/KVM/Docker/K8 and you probably have found an above average sysadmin. I'd much rather have my private cloud run by people that understand its inner workings than by point and click admins that need to contact support at regular intervals.

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maevian@reddit

You would, but is your company willing to pay for them? Are they even able to find them?

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DapperAstronomer7632@reddit

Yes. A single outage or breach is much more expensive. And we train our own staff.

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nktech1135@reddit

This. Also, food for thought, which public support forum is better? answers.microsoft.com? or forum.proxmox.com? Hint, it's not microsoft. You can ask questions on proxmox forums, and get inteligent answers, for free.

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TriforceTeching@reddit

>throw a cat around I'm an english speaker. What does this mean?

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needmorehardware@reddit

This is a good link: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/no-room-to-swing-a-cat I'm basically saying you don't need much room to find someone who is trained/experienced, as swinging a cat around only needs a bit of space.

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IAmTheM4ilm4n@reddit

It actually comes from sailing ships, where there was no room below decks to swing a cat o' nine tails.

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throw0101a@reddit

> While it is frequently stated that the phrase is derived from cat-o’-nine-tails (“type of whip”),[1] this latter term is only attested from 1695, and hence this idiom presumably derived from literally swinging a cat around, as by the tail.[2] * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/not_enough_room_to_swing_a_cat

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whetu@reddit

You probably know this better as "I could throw a rock/stone and hit xyz"

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nurbleyburbler@reddit

Dont throw cats. It makes them angry

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junon@reddit

It's paraphrasing "swing a dead cat..." and it means that something is so common that performing a random activity will find you one easily.

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unethicalposter@reddit

Do you all think VMware has good support? It’s horrible.

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wydra91@reddit

What support are you using? I've had one less than stellar support experience, the rest of the time they usually fix it first call.

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unethicalposter@reddit

anything to do with vsan, support is abysmal. So much so we are ditching vsan.

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tmhindley@reddit

I've had some downright amazing VMware support experiences, but zero truly terrible ones. Most are middle-ground.

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Alsmk2@reddit

It's a thousand times better than most.

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Bane8080@reddit

MS support = Google + do it yourself. Which TBH, with Hyper-v is pretty damn easy.

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noother10@reddit

Really depends on the support. I had a Hyper-V host crashing every 2 months or so after we put in a new backup solution. The backup vendor kept swearing it wasn't their fault and not related to them. Got our MS rep to get us a Red Button ticket (we weren't paying for it at the time), and it was resolved same day after sending the dumps over. If you get the proper support it's good. O365 support can be hit/miss depending.

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ordray@reddit

General Microsoft support is garbage. Premium Microsoft is actually pretty good.

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DerBootsMann@reddit

premier is on expensive side though

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ordray@reddit

Correct, but if it's a critical system it's worth it.

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hihcadore@reddit

This right here. It’s natively supported and you can just run a simple command or check a box and it’s enabled and generally will work forever. Getting support would be like getting support for the registry… if it’s broke just reimage the host.

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Bane8080@reddit

Yea, the hardest things to do with it are get SR-IOV and Switched Embedded Teaming working if they're things you need. And it's pretty well documented.

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Witty_Paramedic_1305@reddit

Greetings of the day Boiling DJ My name is Witty, I'm an Independent Advisor and community member. Let us work together to sort this out. I’ll be happy to help you out today. Help me understand the issue that you are having for us to provide an accurate recommendation. I recommend you to completely repair Windows, First, it would be a good idea to backup your personal files and photos beforehand. I'm not sure if you already have tried this but I do not want to miss important steps. To try solve any error, we suggest that you follow the steps below: Please try this first: 1. ⁠zip it with something like 7zip 2. ⁠transfer to usb stick 3. ⁠post usb stick to new address I'll look forward for your response. Have a wonderful day ahead and stay safe. If these procedures helped you in any way, please click on "I solved my problem" and also mark as an answer, so you can help others users. With Warm Regards, Witty

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Cautious-Surprise-46@reddit

What is your last name? Bhenchod ? Koz when I did all you wrote, computer started playing a weird song [https://youtu.be/5PQ27XVhthg?t=18](https://youtu.be/5PQ27XVhthg?t=18)

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omgitsft@reddit

> This is the dance they do when they successfully get their Google play cards. 🤣

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GBICPancakes@reddit

Excellent work Witty - thanks to this forum post and your high volume of other (almost identical) posts, I've decided you're a valued community member and would like to offer you this official Microsoft MVP designation to attach to your signature file and to parade around with.

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Witty_Paramedic_1305@reddit

Greetings Pancakes, My name is Witty, I'm an Independent Advisor and community member as well as a long time Microsoft customer just like you. I am a 19 time and triple award Microsoft MVP specializing in Windows troubleshooting, bluescreen, sfc scan and dism online, also a three year recognized memory diagnostic tools and dump file specialist. It's a pleasure for me to help others. Sincerely, Witty

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useless_debian_user@reddit

> My name is Witty, I'm an Independent Advisor and community member what the fuck? https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/audio-problem/245338e0-234b-49a5-9d22-4822da900343 do they work with the same templates or these are posted by bots?

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jaskij@reddit

Th sheer verbosity of the introduction made me guess it's an LLM bot. Didn't read past that.

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nktech1135@reddit

This is great, and so perfectly fits ms.

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Fuzilumpkinz@reddit

I find the name you made for OP superior to his chosen one

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flecom@reddit

*Accepted Answer*

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randomman87@reddit

These are both criminally under updooted comments

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horus-heresy@reddit

I did the needless but it still doesn’t work dear

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Whyd0Iboth3r@reddit

I cringe at how accurate this is.

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RetroactiveRecursion@reddit

I had to contact VMware support twice in the past month. Never had to before after running it over a year but a couple weird things came up. They actually answered my questions in a not unreasonable amount of time. I can't remember exactly how long it took them, but I remember being pleasantly surprised.

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hihcadore@reddit

Hyper-v is always there and can be enabled anytime. It’s part of the OS and managing it is just like managing anything else. If a host is acting crazy, you can just reimage it anytime and have the box back up and running again in under an hour. All the other Microsoft products integrate with it seamlessly too like MABS / DPM, MECM, etc.

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Remarkable-Host405@reddit

i was under the impression a server had to have hyper v enabled, which includes downloading a bunch of stuff?

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hihcadore@reddit

Yes and no. You just enable the feature. The OS does all the downloading from Microsoft and configuration. At the end, you just reboot and BAM you can start using the hyper-v manager. The most you may have to do is turn virtualization on in the bios but I’ve only had to do that for really old systems.

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GSimos@reddit

Just a small correction, the bits to enable the role are already in the OS, nothing is downloaded.

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hihcadore@reddit

Thanks! I edited my comment.

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GSimos@reddit

You're welcome!

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Remarkable-Host405@reddit

that sounds exactly how you'd install anything in linux. which you can, in fact, run proxmox management tools on other distributions. at the very least qemu/kvm/virt-manager. you can also just reimage the host, and run a few commands to reinstall those tools. doesn't seem any different than configuring the windows server and having it automagically download everything, but i guess that is the difference

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hihcadore@reddit

Idk, the big difference is it’s updated and works straight from Microsoft. No really thought to put into what distro of windows you’re going to run it on or other dependencies, it’s all baked in. And I think it’s okay whatever hypervisor you do decide to use. I’m just really familiar with hyper v because my org uses it almost exclusively. We’ve had zero issues.

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Remarkable-Host405@reddit

>Idk, the big difference is it’s updated and works straight from Microsoft. proxmox is updated, but we can agree they aren't microsoft - which is a good and bad thing.  >No really thought to put into what distro of windows you’re going to run it on or other dependencies, it’s all baked in. then just run straight proxmox, no need to choose a distro or other dependencies  >And I think it’s okay whatever hypervisor you do decide to use. I’m just really familiar with hyper v because my org uses it almost exclusively. We’ve had zero issues. this is proxmox's hurdle, getting people familiar with it. the reason i am is because i wanted to emulate a windows pc on my linux laptop, and that eventually led to building a server with proxmox. i haven't had any issues with it aside from having to resort to the command line to unlock a vm when i couldn't force restart it, or couldn't find where the vm iso's were located. i haven't played around with hyperv, so i'm obviously biased.

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hihcadore@reddit

It’s the next VMware IMO. As good as hyper-v is people don’t trust windows hahaha and for good reason. Their licensing model is a nightmare even if hyper-v is going to be free and open source. It’s like a dude in a van offering you candy. No way bro. I’m going to have to try and spin up a proxmox instance and load something like netbox in it to see what all the hype is about, ha!

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tmhindley@reddit

This is what I was thinking. Looking over proxmox config docs bears a striking resemblance to ESX 3.0 / 3.5. But VMware had a 15+ year head-start on them, and it shows. It'll be at least 2035 until they reach full feature parity and 3rd party support. The ESX 3.5 days were painful, and I don't want to go back to that. If Windows shops are intent to leave VMWare, not having a linux admin on staff will pigeonhole most of them into Hyper-V. The nice thing about MS is there's very little chance of a rug-pull. Sure they'll always try to push people to Azure and continue to integrate Windows Server into cloud operations, but one thing they do not do is pull support for software being used by thousands of orgs with anything less than a 5-year heads-up. The bigger debate isn't about Hyper-V, but SCVMM. If MS doesn't start investing more into that, things will get dire.

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Hotshot55@reddit

> That's what I was thinking. Looking over proxmox config docs bears a striking resemblance to ESX 3.0 / 3.5. I'd bet it's because ESX was based on Linux.

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hihcadore@reddit

You know what I’ve noticed studying for the azure certs like az104 and az204? Microsoft is going away from VMs and focusing on serverless, PaaS offerings, or containers. It seems like the VM days in the cloud are numbered (I mean at least the push to end it may be). The 3 offerings are sometimes free or way cheaper than spinning up a full vm in the cloud and hosting the same thing.

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skelldog@reddit

All the cloud providers are going that direction. This is happening for the same reason Virtualization took off. Instead of 100 vms on bare metal maybe they can get 10000 functions or databases or whatever. They can get more milk out of the same cow.

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ZAFJB@reddit

> that sounds exactly how you'd install anything in linux. which you can, in fact, run proxmox management tools Not the same. All of Hyper-V is included when you install the OS. After that all you have to do is enable the features you need.

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ZAFJB@reddit

nothing gets downloaded

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Thotaz@reddit

Then you were under the wrong impression. Since Windows Vista/Server 2008, Windows has included most of its optional features inside the image so they can be enabled at any time without any external sources. The only feature I can think of where the source files aren't included is .NET 3.5.

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shikkonin@reddit

> If a host is acting crazy, you can just reimage it anytime and have the box back up and running again in under an hour. Installing Proxmox takes about 10min from 0 to running.

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hihcadore@reddit

Same for hyper-v

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IAdminTheLaw@reddit

You might perceive this as moving the goal posts, but my idea of support doesn't have anything to do with the Proxmox help desk. Required support would start with backups. I'm well aware that Proxmox has their own backup tool. But, lets be serious. It ain't Veeam. I can't use the #1, by a country mile, enterprise backup solution to backup Proxmox. I can't Instant Restore VMs nor spin up test VMs from Veeam to Proxmox. AND, Proxmox' own backup doesn't have application support for 'trivial' things like SQL backups. Next up is 3rd party application support. It doesn't matter is you can run a Linux or Window 10 VM on Proxmox. What matters is the LoB applications. If they don't have Proxmox on their supported hypervisor list, then that's a big NOPE for Proxmox. There's also engineer/admin support. How easily can I find employees, Subject Matter Experts, or consultants to manage, maintain, or execute projects with Proxmox? I'd guess that there are a fair few more in the VMWare or the Hyper-V camp than the Proxmox camp. Then, after that, we get to the helpdesk question. Can an enterprise get a Proxmox support engineer on the phone at 3am to quickly resolve a mission critical outage on a 5 year old platform? Having said all this, I would love, love, LOVE to be able to use Proxmox in Enterprises and SMBs. But, there remain a few efficiencies that are still holding it back. Lack of backup vendor support is a huge one. People might take risks in the other areas, but not with the Backup and Disaster Recovery.

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flecom@reddit

> There's also engineer/admin support. How easily can I find employees, Subject Matter Experts, or consultants to manage, maintain, or execute projects with Proxmox? I'd guess that there are a fair few more in the VMWare or the Hyper-V camp than the Proxmox camp. this is a simple chicken>egg scenario, how many vmware engineers could you find back in the mid-2000s deploying ESX 3.x? I remember hearing how virtualization would never be a thing and learning VMWare was a waste of time, bare metal will always be a thing! so ya no I don't really think that's a valid reason to write it off

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IAdminTheLaw@reddit

>> There's also engineer/admin support. How easily can I find employees, Subject Matter Experts, or consultants to manage, maintain, or execute projects with Proxmox? I'd guess that there are a fair few more in the VMWare or the Hyper-V camp than the Proxmox camp. > this is a simple chicken>egg scenario, how many vmware engineers could you find back in the mid-2000s deploying ESX 3.x? I remember hearing how virtualization would never be a thing and learning VMWare was a waste of time, bare metal will always be a thing! > so ya no I don't really think that's a valid reason to write it off How many mature virtualization choices were there when ESX 3 launched? Today we have lots of choices and the only reason these Proxmox posts have sprung up is because Broadcom(VMWare) is squeezing the market to the breaking point. Proxmox has a chance for a future. But, they have the deficiencies that I outlined that making paying for VMWare or using Hyper-V a preferable choice for an Enterprise looking for a COTS solution. They, or the community could overcome these limitations in time and I'm all for that. I already expressed a desire for using Proxmox. But, I'm expressing the reasons why most Enterprises are not choosing it today. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

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flecom@reddit

There were pretty much no other options because virtualization was not popular at the time, so by your logic virtualization should have never taken off since the only game in town was VMware and there was nobody really around to support a product most sysadmins at the time were dismissing

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IAdminTheLaw@reddit

In my opinion the Proxmox vs. VMWare/Hyper-V choice is very different than you're stating. Things have change with time. It's one thing to take a risk on a new technology that you need and have no alternative/competing product. I took that risk. It's another thing entirely to take a similar risk on a product in a well established technology with numerous well established and supported products. In one case, I must take the risk in order to play. In the other case, there is zero requirement for me to take any risk at all.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

> If they don't have Proxmox on their supported hypervisor list Then they lack KVM/QEMU completely.

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IAdminTheLaw@reddit

>> If they don't have Proxmox on their supported hypervisor list > Then they lack KVM/QEMU completely. Most Enterprises lack KVM/QEMU. This is one of the reasons. Not nearly everyone is cloud-first devops startup development shop. >> Can an enterprise get a Proxmox support engineer on the phone at 3am to quickly resolve a mission critical outage on a 5 year old platform? > And you can with Microsoft? Have a look at Microsoft Mission Critical Support.

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nerdyviking88@reddit

Yes, most places lack KVM/QEMU Completely, or only supported RHEV when it was a thing. And you can get a Microsoft rep, with enough money. Not saying they're gonna be helpful

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TaliesinWI@reddit

>. I can't use the #1 - by a country mile - enterprise backup solution to backup Proxmox. Or the #2, or #3, or #4...

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canadian_sysadmin@reddit

To be fair, if you have the right level of support with MS, it's pretty good. That said, it's usually only there at large cost or companies with large EAs. Microsoft does have some crazy good support teams if shit hits the fan (eg DART team), but you're going to pay for it. Most people here are going to be filing tier 1 basic support tickets with MS, or posting to the forums, and yeah it's not the greatest. It takes a lot of back-and-forth before you get an engineer who knows what they're doing. To be fair, I'm sure 90% of Microsoft's support tickets are config issues/errors. On the other side of the coin - yes there is a reputation with some OSS venders that 'they don't have good support', and sometimes they actually do. It's often paid, but priced reasonably.

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zombieblackbird@reddit

You guys call support?

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syshum@reddit

While I understand this narrative, there are 2 types of "support" as well, given hyperv and vmware are widely used in enterprises secondary support is much wider, so for example if I were to call up Dell with a problem they most likely have someone that knows both hyperv and vmware, they most likely do not have someone that knows proxmox. So in situations where there is not wide enterprise adoptions direct vendor support becomes MORE important than in situations like vmware and hyperv where the majority of software and hardware vendors are already doing compatibility checks, have a working understanding of those platforms

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_BoNgRiPPeR_420@reddit

Microsoft support generally isn't the greatest but the product is extremely well documented. If you're in an enterprise environment, chances are you're paying for Premiere, in which case it's a little better in terms of response time when you open a CritSit.

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bigfoot_76@reddit

>extremely well documented Are we talking about the same vendor who consistently nukes their own Technet and KBs into 404land despite the fact the information you're finding is only a month or two old on the discussion threads?

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JWW-CSISD@reddit

Not coincidentally, this was right about the time I installed the Firefox plugin for the Wayback Machine. Thankfully about 80-90% of the links in the old forums are available there, including many discontinued download links. But yeah, that shouldn’t have to be a thing.

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_BoNgRiPPeR_420@reddit

While they do constantly change their site, and it's annoying, the information is still there with a simple Google search: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/ (The link probably won't work a month from now)

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jamesaepp@reddit

> but the product is extremely well documented Is this a prank?

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AberonTheFallen@reddit

Response time sure. Resolution time? About the same in my experience. I've gotten a few \*really good\* engineers over the years, and I tried to just drop them emails here and there if I had another situation in their area of expertise, but if they weren't able to take the calls it was painful.

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llDemonll@reddit

What legitimate issues have you encountered that are directly software related? Ours have all been hardware related (ex. SAN) Azure Stack HCI has plenty of issues; Hyper-V? I can't recall the last time we had an actual issue that wasn't caused by something else.

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HallFS@reddit

That's not the unique issue with Proxmox. Most server vendors certify their equipment to work with Windows Server, VMware, and some versions of RHEL, SUSE, and Oracle Linux... I have experienced a situation with a customer who after moving their stuff from one rack to another, the HBA board simply disappeared from one of his main servers (it even didn't show up in iLO), preventing it from accessing the storage array. After discovering that the customer was running Proxmox, HPE simply said: "Sorry, that OS isn't certified to work with our server. We recommend you install a supported OS and open a new case if the issue persists". The OS was completely unrelated to the issue, but they refused to provide any support. After that the customer installed Hyper-V and they proceeded to solve the HBA issue.

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bigjj82@reddit

OS being one thing, but many applications we run also got lists for supported virtualization. Running something not on the list and you can be sure that support will drop any ticket mildly complicated faster than you can say downtime.

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See_Jee@reddit

I don't know about Proxmox's enterprise support but we run a non critical Hyper-V cluster and for some standard virtualization tasks it's very easy to maintain. Setting up the failover cluster might be tricky the first time but you find plenty of documentation and how tos on the internet. And then Hyper-V is pretty straight forward and you don't have to worry about some guest extensions like VMware Tools or anything. Windows and most Linux distros have everything they need to be run as a Gen 2 VM. Veeam supports Hyper-V clusters as well. Only thing was we were having some troubles with the cluster aware update role when our hosts ran Server 2016. After upgrading to 2019 they are gone and it works as expected. Works pretty well and is quite hassle free. But as I said we don't do anything special like SRV-IO or something like that. If you are a company that mainly runs Windows and Windows Server implementation and integration is pretty straightforward and easy. Furthermore you may be able to save some money if you run Windows Server Data center on your hosts so all your Windows Server guests are licensed immediately.

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ZAFJB@reddit

>what's your experience with Hyper-V Support? Can't tell you. Never have had to get support from MS. Just works. Published documentation is great if you bother to read it. Also, there are plenty of knowledgeable people, and articles to be found on the Internet.

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thebluemonkey@reddit

Vmware isn't Microsoft, and vmware support has always been amazing in my experience. Hyper-v, I wouldn't touch

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e_karma@reddit

I knew had proxmox amtispam way back in 2014 somewhere and once on a tech call the founder /cEo himself was on the call ..I didn't know he was the CEO at the time , later when I looked up the company I was surprised

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NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit

I have been using proxmox's anti-spam gateway for some time now and it's been working great. Took some tuning, but it's about as effective as my old symantec mail gateway, if not moreso. Also handles Dmarc/DKIM better than symantec ever did.

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e_karma@reddit

For the price point it is a very very good product , had it till we migrated to o365

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NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit

tbh I'd still use it in conjuction with 365 hosted in azure or aws. The default anti-spam on 365 is garbage

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sysadmin6000@reddit

Microsoft support is a fucking embarrassing circus.

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basicallybasshead@reddit

It's absolutely true. There are some highly competent MSPs that offer far superior support. In cases where HCI solutions are needed, certain vendors provide comprehensive hardware and software support at a high level. We've worked with several Starwinds HCA clusters, and I must say, their support team is outstanding.

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ipbannedburneracc@reddit

You ever tried Google lol?

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Key-Calligrapher-209@reddit

Google's support is infuriating. You either get a chatbot or a person that might as well be a chatbot.

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tankerkiller125real@reddit

I once said "I'd like to speak to a human" to a human support rep because their so God damn terrible.

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centizen24@reddit

"Is there anyone around wearing striped thigh high socks you can transfer me too"

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Infinite100p@reddit

>You ever tried Google lol? Google has support?

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aprimeproblem@reddit

Turning it off and on again? (I’m saying this as an former Microsoft PFE and it really hurts to see the decline in quality)

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horus-heresy@reddit

Not if you have EA and tam to escalate to and fast lane you to some Greg from Seattle

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pjustmd@reddit

Don’t use Hyper-V. Ever.

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SweepTheLeg69@reddit

Used Hyper-V in an enterprise environment since 2014. I don't see it as a problem.

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planedrop@reddit

1 host 2 VMs?  For real though, what kind of architecture?

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planedrop@reddit

XCP-ng from Vates has better support in my experience and might be worth a shot, much closer to a ESXi equivalent than other options.  Agreed here though, MS isn't going to be helpful lol.

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UnsuspiciousCat4118@reddit

Microsoft support is so trash. When people tell me they use Microsoft because they can get support from MSFT I always laugh.

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NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit

the support comes from google and experienced techs

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Marrsvolta@reddit

I don’t use MS support for their support. I use them as a way to direct end user frustration at them instead of me.

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NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit

literally the reason everyone is throwing everything on the cloud. They can blame someone else and pass the buck. So many companies operate like this now. Even when their shit is clearly broken, they blame you or imaginary problems.

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Lots_of_schooners@reddit

Support for Hyper-V is fine if you do it right. If you have cluster issues then MS server support can bounce you around from cluster to networking to auth to storage etc... lack of unified support per se This is where Azure stack HCI shines. Support for that, again assuming you've got a proper supported solution and not something the 'windows guy' threw together, is end to end.

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McGregorMX@reddit

Hyper-v has its pros and cons, If your setup gets even a little complicated, hyper-v is not the hypervisor for you. Hyper-V is good at what it does; the complications come from backups and restores, and many vendors don't do it right.

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DevinSysAdmin@reddit

I'm still not sure why people keep saying Proxmox, it's like they've leaked out of r/homelab or something. Several companies are rapidly moving to HyperV instead of using vmware and finding it much cheaper. I wouldn't touch proxmox in a business setting, especially because no Veeam support, let alone because not that many companies use it at all.

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ChumpyCarvings@reddit

I recently tried doing some stuff with my home lab prox and moving to a new prox server and overall, while I love it, I've got to say yeah it's not ready for big big primetime. It just isn't.

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StrangeCaptain@reddit

no one is switching from VMWare, they are talkin about switching from VMWare they won't

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tmhindley@reddit

If you're a company where 92% of your hosts are running ROBO licensing, and Broadcom pulls ROBO licensing (which they will), you are 1000% switching from VMware.

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StrangeCaptain@reddit

100% agree, Yes, and or no depending on what the rest of the algebra equation is. will people choose another hyper visor over VMware? Sure, happens all the time, will the number be higher? Sure? Does Broadcom know this? Of course, they have a number they think it will be in their algebraic equations, these decisions are all a lot less sexier than Reddit imagines them.

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Chipperchoi@reddit

Same here. 99.99% of our clients are all VMWare. I will eat my left nut if they all just decided to up and leave for another solution. Sure they will bitch and moan about the price hike but they are not going anywhere.

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Stickus@reddit

This. Our org is not looking to change any time soon. We did spin up a Proxmox test server to test recently, but all our prod in running VMware suite and I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.

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horus-heresy@reddit

We have Microsoft EA with 1 hour sev A support and tam. Not really sure why your try to do this fanboy bs. Use what your company likes it’s just a hypervisor not a religion to convert to

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bmxfelon420@reddit

Dont know, have never needed to call support for anything with Hyper-V

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Hjarg@reddit

Please do the needful.

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avenger5524@reddit

And make sure to do it kindly.

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mrpoops@reddit

Forget about support. Hire people that know what they’re doing. Support for any product is trash. MS is gonna be better than most others if you pay $$$ but it’s still trash. You can’t rely on support. Ever. For anything.

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OnlyHistorian3832@reddit

I’ll just chime in to say that we have about 200k users and pay MS a fortune. Regardless, their support is utter dogshit. I complained to our sales rep (easiest job ever?) who basically said they are a big company and I should cut them some slack. Nice approach, dickhead! So yeah, Proxmox support can only be better. Personal experience, for now at least, is that their engineers really know what they are talking about. Also, we used Hyper-V in prod and I would recommend pretty much anything else.

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devonnull@reddit

I never had issues with Proxmox that required the support we paid for. Reading these types of posts as of late people seem to think you need their backup solution. I've never had any experience with it, but then again the built in VM snapshot and backup utility work fine. That being said some people's head would explode that I had it setup so that not only were the VMs setup on a mounted ext4 filesystem, but the backups went to a different mounted filesystem so I could take the backup files, or the VM disks for that matter and do whatever I wanted with them.

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RefugeAssassin@reddit

Its been 3 or 4 years since I worked and had to support a Hyper-V cluster but depending on the Licensing support agreement you have it will affect who/when and how long it takes to work with support. I dont recall what our support contract was specifically but I do know that the tickets were routed offshore so my responses (we only had email support) were not responded to until overnight hours usually so if you can work with that then its not so bad. I can tell you that once I did actually get in touch with an engineer, they were very knowledgeable and fixed issues for me in ways I would have never thought of, had me send logs I didnt know existed and a batch of other things. Not sure how much things have changed now but that was my experience.  TLDR: May take quite some time to get a response depending on your level of Support, but the engineers are smart as hell and always fixed up my issues.

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Jkabaseball@reddit

We use Hyper-V on Dell servers. I had one issue we were trying to determine if it was hardware (Dell) or software (Microsoft). After trying some stuff with Dell, the just patched in a Microsoft person (forget if they were MS or Dell employee), but having all 3 on the call made things a lot easier. No finger pointing. If you buy a Windows Server, Dell seems to help a lot in general with the OS.

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nukker96@reddit

“Literally majority of poor vendor support complaints on this sub are against Microsoft” The more a product is in use, the more you’re going to hear complaints. It’s not necessarily a reflection of the product itself, just that it’s being used in a lot of environments.

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DGC_David@reddit

That's the catch, it's Microsoft, there isn't support 😂

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NameEnvironmental358@reddit

Does proxmox now have drs feature yet?

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MyTechAccount90210@reddit

We're in a world now where vendors have to do very little and demand so much $$$$ for the convenience. It's just a matter of finding a tool that works for you and something you can support. Thus far with proxmox I have run into a wide array of odd issues but nothing I couldn't find by searching online. The proxmox forums have a lot of into. It's not 4 hr sla support but it works well enough for someone who can research well. I would equate my environment to a small commercial facility moreso than a home lab, I would expect similar out in the world.

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Professional-Bug2305@reddit

People complaining about backups are silly, in alot of managed environments, they aren't even big enough to have a vcenter. Agent based backups work just fine.

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perthguppy@reddit

The documentation for HyperV is much much much better

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AstralVenture@reddit

I like Hyper-V because it’s pre-installed.

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TheMartok@reddit

lol if you like going through phone tree cycles then hyper v support is for you Do the needful and pay 499 for one time instance support

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513g3Hamm3r@reddit

There is support for Hyper-V?! I am thought we're the support! 😂

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-quakeguy-@reddit

It’s the availability hours of official vendor support (business hours of business days in Austrian timezone), the breadth of selection of potential 3rd party support partners as well as ease of hiring / paying for competent staff who can run it.

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