GI Bill Vocational for JUST IFR???

Posted by MangledX@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 18 comments

Hi, Gang! Having some fits right now trying to get access to use my GI Bill for vocational benefits only. Quick background...my GI Bill expires in November of this year, and unless I get cleared for an extension - I don't really have much time to do much with it. Liberty U and the VA still haven't gotten their resolve yet, so the degree plan pathway is not an option unfortunately, and I'm trying to at least salvage something before my GI Bill drops dead in November. I've been trying to get into a flight academy here in the DFW area and the admissions lady I've talked to said that it's a requirement that they HAVE to sign me up for IFR *and* commercial in order for me to enter into the program, and she's now saying that her concern is that the VA may not pay for it if I only get my IFR and do not finish commercial. The vocational benefit will only cover about 15.5k for the year, which should be more than enough to finish out IFR, so I'm not so much worried about that - but she's adamant in saying that she's concerned that they won't issue repayment if I do not finish commercial too. I have called the VA education office and they have told me no, that's not the case at all as long as I get the instrument rating, they'll cover what I've completed. Called back to the academy and explained this and she told me no, they're lying. It feels like they're trying to kind of paint me into a corner wherein I'm on the hook to finance the remaining commercial portion of the training, and I'm not interested in playing that game with them. Absolutely nothing I've read says that you MUST sign up AND complete commercial training in order to get covered for any particular rating. I can see this being a stipulation if I was to go the other route where it's tied into the degree path. But for vocational, shouldn't the IFR stand on it's own as a certificate and/or rating to fulfill this? It's the VA and a flight academy, and I don't have much trust in either one of them being straight up with me. Anyone have any experience going vocational route with their GI Bill in situations like this?

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18 Comments

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RealKimJongUn@reddit

The va will only part for part 141 programs

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

That's not the issue I'm having. The program in question is part 141.

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EM22_@reddit

Why would the VA pay for your vocational rehab (remember, the point of voc rehab is to put you into a new JOB) if you’re actively telling them you don’t want to get your commercial (you know, the only cert you need to get a flying JOB)? It doesn’t make any sense, my guy. Even if you are approved, how do you feel knowing that you scammed a program meant to put veterans in a new JOB, not just get them a new cert through the back door because their GI Bill expired?

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

You're clearly not understanding what I'm saying. Vocational benefits of a gi bill and VR&E are two totally separate things. You can use 12 months of benefits and get 15k to use your post 9/11 in a vocational sense. It's a loss in the grand scheme of things since they're only paying pennies on the dollar compared to a degree path. So I'd still be using benefits of my gi bill, NOT VR&E. Further to that, nowhere in this post am I saying I do not want my commercial rating. I'm saying that there would not be funding left after the 15k is expended to pay further towards my commercial rating and my gi bill runs out in November. So it's either try to get my instrument with benefits that I've already paid for and not used or let my gi bill expire and get nothing. So, not sure where the fuck you took it that I'm trying to "scam" a program when I'm clearly asking for insight on how to maximize the transition without it costing me further than it already has, considering I've already paid for everything I've obtained up to this point. Reading doesn't seem like your strong suit.

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EM22_@reddit

You have to be more descriptive, and that’s on you. When you lead with “so my So my GI Bill is running out” and then go on to talk about “vocational” flying, it sounds like a question about voc rehab. Forgive me. You can use your GI Bill for your instrument rating through a VA approved Part 141 non-degree seeking program. (See how clear that was?) If you stop going after your instrument training, that’s fine. What you’ve done will be settled. You don’t have to work through commercial to have it covered. I can tell you this with 100% certainty. Again, I’m sorry for coming off hot, but it’s warranted. Lots of veterans out there greasin the system, taking away from hard working vets like yourself, trying to move onto bigger things. If you have any other questions, reach out.

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

No hard feelings. I thought I had mentioned that liberty University and the VA were still clashing teeth with one another and the degree path wasn't an option, thus I was trying to pursue the vocational element of the gi bill itself before I lose my benefits in November. And thank you for the clarification!! The lady at the admissions office has not left me feeling super confident with the doom and gloom she's portrayed with her projection of worst case what-ifs. And I totally agree with you man. I am 60 percent disabled (back issues) and did try to apply for vr&e six weeks ago due to the fact that the functions of my current job are wearing harder on my body. I was told that I've already been there seven years so it doesn't make sense to fund me a career change. Blew my mind. She said if it gets worse, just go to HR and ask for physical exemptions. I was shocked that this was her solution to a problem that programs like hers was designed to right. I even spoke to a counselor out of the Austin office and he said that was fucked up and based on my situation he'd have approved it on the spot. Typical "luck of the draw" VA behaviors man. I do appreciate the heads up and will tell them to move forward with both and hopefully I'll be able to piece this together and get them to use "next year's" allocated funds to at least start commercial when the money bucket refills at the end of July. Sorry for the discourse, but thanks for the help!

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EM22_@reddit

You can always apply to VR&E again. Ask for a new counselor, it’s essentially a fresh start explaining your case again. Heads up, getting flight training funded through VR&E puts you at a disadvantage from the start, for some reason. There’s a great series on YouTube from “iamnicthevet” that’s worth watching. Following their advice should boost your chances. Best of luck.

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

Disadvantage in regards to training or towards getting funded overall?? And I did reapply shortly after being told no. Figured it wouldn't hurt to try. Thanks for the link, man!! Always happy to do some research to lessen the headaches.

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EM22_@reddit

most people get denied AT LEAST once before approval. It’s a disadvantage toward getting funded. Say you wanted to become a lawyer. For some reason, you have greater odds of them sending you off to do that vs fly. Just weird.

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

Super inconsistent for sure. I even speculated that maybe it was because of the cost and she smugly said "oh no, our program is well funded, it's just a matter of eligibility" which almost made it worse.

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PLIKITYPLAK@reddit

I thought they changed it to where the Post 9/11 GI bill doesn't expire?

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

That only applies if you got out after 2013. Kinda weird they didn't apply that across the board.

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Guessohw@reddit

As a retired army, veteran myself, and having dealt with the VA of the course of almost 20 years, I trust Dennis as far as I can throw them. That being said, you need to look at this like a mission, multi phase that way you can break it down in the steps. Need to identify what the VA will and will not pay for and request documentation and or where you can get the documentation if they will not just provide it to you. Next phase you need to if possible go to that school and speak with somebody directly rather than over the phone and cell. Any school or educational facility that accepts and/or allows people to utilize their G.I. bill is technically required to have somebody working that is proficient/understands the VA and its complexities. The next step and four issue sounds like the school is giving out some BS information or not completely factual, which is why I would recommend going there to the school because they should be able to lay out the curriculum from beginning to end and be able to tell you what it is going to cost, what the VA will cover, what you may have to come out of pocket, as well as any other expenditures. It’s like I used to tell my troops but been listed and Jr. officers most of the time if you have a feeling or a hunch go with it in this case being that you’re in the Dallas Fort Worth area I would advise looking at multiple universities and/or facilities that except the G.I. bill and I would especially try to find one that has somebody there that is knowledgeable because as I and many other people have learned over the years, any person on the phone can tell you one thing, but when it comes down to it if they told you something incorrect, good luck getting them too except responsibility and get ready to potentially owe the VA money back. I apologize for being long-winded, there is just a lot that goes into this. With the vocational/rehabilitation opportunities that the VA puts out they should easily have somebody you can go sit down with and they can help you step-by-step again, being in the Dallas Fort Worth area there is somebody there that can help you. Don’t let any school make you feel like you’re going to have to pay money out-of-pocket without having all the details

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HbrewHammrx2@reddit

Expires because you will use it all or expire because of the max program lifespan? If you have even one day of GI Bill left, a Voc Rehab counselor can use it to cover you for the life of your training program (if you’re approved)

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DanThePilot_Man@reddit

Have you checked in with Thrust Flight?

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DanThePilot_Man@reddit

They are based in Addison

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MangledX@reddit (OP)

I'm in nw fort worth and was trying to find something a little closer since I'll be having to invest my weekends to knock this out while still holding down a job and raise kiddos on my own but if I keep getting a not good feeling, I may reach out. I've heard good things about them!

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DanThePilot_Man@reddit

I flew down there to check it out, everyone down there is filled with passion for aviation.