Can I dig underground in a property owned by me to create a shooting range + SHTF shelter? I will be shooting hand guns, 22lr rifles and an ar15 in 223/556. This is to avoid stupid gun ordinances that ban you from shooting in your own property unless you are so and so yard away from others property

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Update. For now I am firing the AR in an indoor range that allows 200 yards which is good enough for me. The range is shared by forces and civilians. I am planning to buy a 10-100 acre property as investment though. Depending on how much is in swamp the amount of land will vary. I don't care for swamps as I will be shooting the AR / shotgun from the air boat / recreational vehicles. It appears it is more fun to buy cheap unincorporated land and shoot from air-boat / personal toys than create a range after pushing paperwork with so many government departments. Shotgun and AR will have squatters away. Of-course like minded neighbors will always be welcome. Ideally I need a farmer neighbor who will farm on my land and shoot with me during the weekend.

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copout@reddit

I looked into something like this. Turned out to be too rich for my blood. https://www.srtlivefire.com/container-ranges

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

This is actually a very good solution. might even work as a basement range. Thank you!

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tacticalDildos@reddit

Ventilation is key.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

May be easier to build a small indoor shooting range then. The ordinance does not ban that so far as I understand.

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ACLU_EvilPatriarchy@reddit

Indoor shooting ranges are often inside city limits, industrial parks or even commercial business districts.... Who is arrested for discharging a firearm within city limits??? How do you word the regulations or what is the loophole?

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

I am not twisting. These are the portion of the ordinance that are in force on unincorporated lands that I got irritated about: 1. It is unlawful for any person to discharge any firearm within 300 yards of any dwelling owned and/or occupied by another unless the person first procures the written permission of the owner or occupant of the dwelling. 2. It is unlawful for any person to discharge any firearm within 300 yards of any building reasonably likely to be occupied, including, but not limited to, any school, church, warehouse or any playground or park. 3. It is unlawful for any person to discharge any firearm within 300 yards of any domestic livestock belonging to others unless the person first procures the written permission of the owner of the domestic livestock.

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Th3_Admiral@reddit

The way this works with gun ranges is that they get an exemption (variance) to the zoning laws. Whether you go for a commercial or just a private gun range, you would still need to apply for and be approved for that variance. Of course, that would involve building everything up to code (including ventilation, bullet containment, and other safety concerns) and actually getting it approved by your local zoning board. They may simply say no, no matter how you intend to build this range.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you for your insightful advice. I will start with the city first then. If City is not willing I have to then see if the county would allow me to build one on unincorporated land. If not then I am going for a hunting property. I will invite all my friends and ask my son also to invite all his friends for weekend shooting and hunting fun.

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Th3_Admiral@reddit

Let us know how it goes! I've dealt with county and township governments a little bit and sometimes they can be super helpful and cooperative and sometimes they can be the most stubborn, hard-headed people ever.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

>g to try printing some on our For now I found a range that accommodates 200 yards. 200 yards is challenging enough for me. But they allow only soft core ammo which is also fine with me for the time being. Right now I am finding 556 cheaper than 223 so shooting 556. Waiting for the direction of interest rate to buy some good acreage around summer / fall for dual purpose. I like travelling in forests / uninhibited land / farms etc. I know that is atypical of reddit crowd. I anyway had the intention to buy some lands 2-3 hours drive away if need be. If that allows me to shoot some exotic ammo that is even better. A friend of mine has outdoor private range surrounded by the city. His family built it when his property was not within city limits. So for now he is grandfathered but you may never know. Tons of people from CA and NYC are arriving in NC. If they decide to do what they did in CA then I don't know how long it will take us to become CA. When he shoots 556 the sound can be heard a mile away. So an outdoor range have to have quite an acreage / trees and no condo / townhome type property nearby to echo the sound. I prefer shooting outdoor as it is less polluting and makes much less sound. Therefore better for longevity of ourselves / our ears. I agree that county and more so cities can provide unexpected response. I am afraid that a city and county, that prohibited us to shoot even bow and arrow unless we are 300 yards away from other properties and animals which basically means you need to own 300 yards of land in all directions of your shooting lane. will give any permit for a rifle range. By asking for permit I will probably get my into their list of bad people that own guns. That is if I want to propose a business of pistol range / lesson / matches it might still make some sense. The ones I know that have been built years ago are all pistol ranges. Culvert and/or rural property is to go in the long run.

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Verum14@reddit

make sure you’re not confusing hunting regulations with general discharge regs

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Th3_Admiral@reddit

Just mentioned it in a comment further down, but a range would simply get a zoning variance from the zoning board that would allow them to build in spite of these regulations. The entire purpose of variances is to allow edge cases that don't fit in the standard zoning laws.

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ACLU_EvilPatriarchy@reddit

And yet without the variance, it typically becomes a Felony to violate discharge of a firearm within city limits (aside from self defense or putting down a rabid animal attacking people). I guess like a nude park or beach gets a variance, where outside of it gets an indecent exposure rap.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you once more.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the education guys. I figured out it is much easier to buy 100 acres in the middle of nowhere and shoot there. Might even keep squatters away from the property. Has that been done before? anybody did that knows how many acres is safe? In my state it is possible for a guy like me to buy 100 acre of bad lands say couple of hours drive away. I could easily pull 200 acres if I cross the state border but I would rather stay in my state just in case it goes to court. I might even find land that cannot be built upon but can be shot over. If 10-20 acre is sufficient then that could be just 1 hour drive away.

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Ornery_Secretary_850@reddit

What does land go for around you? I've been looking for a place where land isn't $10k an acre.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Around me .5 acre is 200K but drive out 1 hour and it is possible to will buy 10 acre. Drive out another hour it will be possible to buy 50-100 acre. You have to look for bad lands. May be barren, abandoned and swamps where farming option is limited and cannot be built upon because it gets flooded regularly or conservation land. Regular flooding will be a good squatter deterrent. State wildlife conservation rangers will also be a squatter deterrent. Only hunting is permitted in those lands. Perfect for me as I am a road warrior. Driving 200 mile in the weekend is a pleasure for me.

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Trading_Things@reddit

Are there no public lands where shooting is permitted? In my area a lot of people use a public land on a mountain.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

>Are there no public lands where shooting is permitted? In my area a lot of people use a public land on a mountain. There are public hunting land. That also can be done but then I have to carry target, tents and the setup every time I go for shooting. But I am thinking it might be worth trying that. Most Hunters prefer early morning or late afternoon. I might do some shooting in mid day. 556 can be heard a mile out I believe. If I do it in hunting area then we are driving away all animals by rapid firing. There are unmanned ranges far away. Like say 2-3 hours drive. I am near the largest city area. The ranges near me are all manned. There is only one that allows 200 yards for rifles during weekend. The others are mostly 25 yards pistol range.

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coldafsteel@reddit

yeah its been done. There are both legal and illegal ways to go about doing it. If you go the illegal route and get caught with it its hart time, not a slap on the wrist.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

If I am pulling license with county then I will do over-ground concrete shell w/o windows. Do we need to pull permit to dig in our backyard? If we don't even have water / heating / cooling? In that case Govt knows about all bomb shelters we have built. Nah it is best to buy 100 acres in the middle of nowhere and shoot there. Might even keep squatters away from the property. Has that been done before? anybody did that knows how many acres is safe? In my state it is possible for a guy like me to buy 100 acre of bad lands say couple of hours drive away. I might even find land that cannot be built upon but can be shot over. If 10 acre is sufficient then that could be just 1 hour drive away.

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the_spacecowboy555@reddit

What do you mean squatters? Squatters are people that take ownership of property by filling out false forms or leases. Are you referring to trespassers?

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

What do YOU mean by squatter? A squatter is a person who begins living on a property they don’t own without permission. They do not have any legal claim to the property and are not tenants, but after a period of time they may gain “squatter’s rights.” So by definition a squatter starts with trespassing and tries to get "adverse possession" of the property.

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IdletRusselBrandMe@reddit

"daddy gov, may I do what I want with my property?"

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Yeah. Unfortunately that is where we are. Cost of democracy where government dependent majority is willing to surrender their rights. Unincorporated properties are best.

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Tickketheclown@reddit

Look up unmanned ranges in your state. A lot of states have their department of wildlife manage umranges not attended by anybody and they’re the best to go to. Shoot the way you want and never had an issue and haven’t seen any BS behavior. Also depending on your located see if there is nearby BLM land

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thanks. The closest in manned. There are some unmanned ranges very far. If I am driving that much distance then buying my private land makes sense.

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woodnoah@reddit

Why would it be hard time? It's a building code violation, most of those are civil with a penalty of curing

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

You are right. If the charge is only making property modification without telling the town, then I can pull license and pay the appropriate property tax. My concern was whether even shooting underground is violation of gun ordinance. If they charge on gun ordinance violation then it could be 30 days in prison. Which is not worth it.

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Heamsthornbeard@reddit

What they don't know can't hurt them... but without ventilation and proper bracing, it may kill you, lol

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

You are right. I know about an underground archery range. I will try to have a chat with them.

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diamondd-ddogs@reddit

please be carefull, excavating and building underground structures is no joke, a lot can go wrong in a lot of different ways and cost lives. also it is way, way more work than you imagine it to be, even with equiptment.

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ACLU_EvilPatriarchy@reddit

True but on the other hand who says one has to build a lengthy tunnel with reinforced with rebar poured concrete walls to your left and right 50 yards long to be safe with an anchor bolted galvanized corrugated steel roof over head covered by a thin layer of asphalt and fake grass astro turf. Our great grand parents on the farm built storm cellars tornado shelters by just digging and sawn boards... Like the Wizard of Oz or Twister movies. I recommend just a concrete pit staircase connected to an underground existing basement, a rented bobcat backhoe and phenolic impregnated 4 foot diameter thick sonotube like they use for molding concrete storm sewers, like a giant version of a carpet tube roll core, and lay those out to 25 to 50 yards with the top a foot below ground level, fill in around with pea gravel. Make at the opposite end a staircase walk down concrete pit to change out targets, collect bullets off the angled plate sand pit. Power exhaust fan at shooter end and just shoot non lead or total full metal jacket or alloy. Or even lead at the target end if shooting into a wall of dense ballistic clay occasionally maintained.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you so much for the valuable insight. You are blessed for having such grand parents. The problem is when I tried to buy a property at south, all agents got baffled with our demand and asked me "Why do you need a basement?", "why do you need a private swimming pool when you can get great community swimming pool?", "What is the problem with HOA?" During pandemic many "educated" liberal left colleagues that used to tell me "Why do you need a gun?" called me and asked where can they buy gun right now. I told them nowhere due to the laws they had supported so long. They will need to go through the application process, provide finger print, let fed and state perform background check. Then they can buy one single gun with their gun permit which will be retained by the gun shop. Unless they go for a longer process along with written law test and shooting proficiency test they will not get a permanent license to buy unlimited number of "fully semiautomatic" gun. Lol. This process in normal time takes 2 months. Because of all anti-gun folks now applying for gun permit together, it might take a year. By then existing license holders will clean the selves of all gun stores. For years they had debated with us about "how easy it is to get a gun". When time showed them how easy it is they started complaining. The people that cannot anticipate the need for basement, guns, ammo, bow and arrows, scythe, etc., are suddenly made wise by mother nature / father universe when it is too late. Your ideas will work at my 2nd home slightly north which has a basement and a large swimming pool. It will also be a valuable idea when I buy a large tract of land for "hunting". Lol!

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KdF-wagen@reddit

Use a big steel, plastic or concrete box culvert, we bury them DEEP all the time under the highway.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you. I am now inclined to build a small indoor range or buy some land.

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No-Archer-21@reddit

Best bet buy cheap land. Bonus if cheap land with a water source like a well. I got a friend who did this built a place and has been fixing it up. We go shoot then work on his place. we make a whole day out of it. I need to do the same lol

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D-lahhh@reddit

What state are you in? In MI, we have the distance rule but it’s specifically for hunting. It doesn’t apply to target shooting.

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IdletRusselBrandMe@reddit

thats the same for CA. I dont know why. I think maybe "in case deer moves", I mean, the distance laws are pretty ridiculous already. If you have a 40 inch drop at 1000 yards and the min distance is 30 yards you can still end up ricocheting a bullet into some kids soft little skull as a result of a hunting accident near a populated area, in spite of the fact that the shoot itself was totally 100% legal according to distance laws and zoning ordinance laws etc, (although all laws are morally repugnant to exercise of 2A, obviously).

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Correct. If the land is wooded, not exactly flat, shooter is shooting down from a high ground / tree stand then a 223 / 556 has a higher probability of hitting a tree first and sound will also be contained by the tree. Generally coming out with a 300 yard law is absolute nonsense. Now I know from where these Karens got their idea. Most of them arrived from CA / NY / NJ.

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IdletRusselBrandMe@reddit

I think its 300 because they cant take it all the way but want SOMETHING and they can argue that within 300 shows gross neglignece or depraved indifference so thats why its a legal limit.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

NC. The ordinance is for discharging a firearm. So for all purposes.

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Low_Information8286@reddit

Are you neighbors cool?

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Immediate neighbors are. Actually one who is a veteran shoots bow in the backyard which is banned by city now but he did not stop. Only I and another immediate neighbor can see him practicing archery as we are kind of the last line of properties before a pine ridge. He needed my signature to do some project in his land which I gladly provided. I and my immediate neighbor have a very good relationship with him. The others are probably afraid of him. But firearms will definitely be heard by the row of houses behind us. Someone could just call 911 to report shots fired.

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jbrc89@reddit

If you want to be free be free

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

NH has it best - Live Free OR Die.

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IdletRusselBrandMe@reddit

Watch colin firths secret tunnel vid and no he didnt get zoning before hand but he also knew whhat he was doing with buttressing and venting

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RDX_Rainmaker@reddit

Just bury and chain together a few connex containers, and run a ventilation fan down the entrance, and another fan out the far end of the range. As long as you own mineral rights, there should be no issue

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you so much. Why did I not think about this before!

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RDX_Rainmaker@reddit

You’ll just have to remember to put some thin plate on top of the connex before you bury it; the load-bearing members are on the corners, so the skin in between the rigid edges can buckle in under a moderate load

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Dak_Nalar@reddit

It will honestly be cheaper to buy some land in a more rural area. Excavating and building underground areas is expensive as fuck. The reason why homes in a lot of parts of the country don’t have basements is because it’s typically the most expensive part of the house to build.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you. I am also now leaning that way. May be I can lease out the land to other hunters and farmers.

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Potential-Location85@reddit

As for shooting distances around buildings read your state laws carefully. Is it shooting or hunting? They are different. Some states have you can’t fire a weapon x distance from a building road etc others say you can’t hunt x distance. Also, I doubt it be covered by those laws above. You are going to run more into building codes and zoning. It’s also very expensive to build a gun range especially indoor and underground.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

it is discharging a firearm. So I think both shooting and hunting.

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Potential-Location85@reddit

Ok then you definitely need to check and get your permits. Some states like Maryland it’s hunting and I know a couple gun store that have outside range that is super close to road and buildings.

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JBoogie808@reddit

You generally can. Please consult engineers and professionals though. Im a tradesman under 30 and already know 4 people killed by excavation accidents. It’s not joke, especially if you plan on going under an existing structure.

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vertigo42@reddit

Colin furze enters the chat

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

I think it is far easier to build an above ground small range or buy some land.

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SnoozingBasset@reddit

Are thinking of doing this with a building permit?

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

No. I don't intend to do anything illegal. My greater concern was if I do it indoors then whether the ordinance still apply.

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

While I can find 50 meter pistol ranges and 200 meters rifle ranges for shooting, the restrictions are sometime just too much.

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ccnnvaweueurf@reddit

Culvert

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1n_c0de_we_trust@reddit (OP)

Thank you. Why did I not think about that before.

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MandaloreZA@reddit

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2021/12/27/100-yard-underground-range/

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ccnnvaweueurf@reddit

The biggest ones are pretty spendy. I saw a setup someone had with a culvert room of a large one then a long smaller culvert they pulled a rope up and down to reset a target but you'd have to crawl to get into.

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