I think I'm too stupid for programming

Posted by Silver_Individual_96@reddit | learnprogramming | View on Reddit | 182 comments

I'm just wondering whether or not it's worth it to keep investing my time into computer science. I graduated in February of 2021, and immediately, it was nearly impossible to fit the qualifications required for entry level positions. Even in school, I was told that the confusion over a project I was having might mean becoming a programmer might not be a possibility by one of the instructors. Anyway, I either didn't have enough technical knowledge, like rest Apis, react experience, etc., or I couldn't get a good enough score in the technical interview. So I spent more than a year trying to understand frameworks, web development, springboot, data structures and algorithms, and solving leetcode problems, moreso focusing on the latter two. When I retook the interview test, I did worse than the first time. So, two years later, and I only even got an interview for three positions, and failed all of them, and I don't have any substantive benefit from trying to learn anything. The only motivations I really have anymore is that I hate my current job, also that I want to prove everyone wrong. But I don't have anything to show. Maybe I'm just venting, but isn't it rational at some point for me to just accept I can't do it?

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__throw_error@reddit

Programming is pretty humbling, it's hard, most people feel kinda dumb when making mistakes. I do, it's kinda like torture really, even if I'm successful I reflect on it as not fast enough, criticizing myself for being slow or missing info that was easily attainable if I just payed better attention. That said, you don't have to be a genius, a lot (most) of your performance is based on knowledge and not inherent skill. You are smart enough. Really. The question is if you have the drive to keep chasing your dream. From your story I'm gonna guess, yes, definitely. The uncertainty from being shut down by interviews is normal, it's basic psychology, like a guy that is being rejected by girls over and over having low self esteem. While it may just be bad luck. Thinking rationally, that's indeed important. What went wrong during the interviews, what did they say you were missing? Did they say you weren't smart enough? I doubt it. What is the actual reason you didn't pass your interviews?

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I know I wasn't selected for two of the jobs for the same reason: I didn't have full stack experience. They both wanted someone who knew C#, which I never learned, but was willing to put time into to understand. They also wanted experience with bootstrap, PostgreSQL, react, and rest apis. So I did try to wrap my head around that stuff, but it seems like nothing sticks. And I get stuck in this rabbit hole where I realize how much I still have to learn, how I can't seem to retain it, and no idea how to best approach it. That's kind of why I tried investing so much time into data structures and algorithms, so I could have a measurable outcome and hopefully pass that other interview's screening test to at least get my foot in the door and prove to myself I could learn. I think in regards to the interview test, I just don't have the brains to do it. The solutions to interview problems are presented like they're the most obvious thing in the world, but I don't understand them.

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__throw_error@reddit

You're not alone, data structures and algorithms and their related questions are incredibly hard. When I was in college I had the same problems when solving these kind of issues, I was overwhelmed with information that only led to more questions and a sinking feeling of missing links from the stuff that I learned to actual practical knowledge. Then the questions, I think you are like me, you are actually trying to understand the questions and find the solutions yourself. Up to a point that is correct, however it's insane to come up with your own solutions. You basically recognize the questions and just copy and paste the right data structure or algorithm, that is the right method. How do you do this in real life? You learn the first 10 questions on leetcode completely, you study how they work and don't solve them yourself, you really understand how it works. It's easier than solving it yourself, you just look how they solve it. When you can completely replicate it and explain the right answer you're basically ready. In most interview questions it's only those questions, maybe asked a bit differently. But they only require you to give the standard answer that you learned on leetcode, it's pattern matching. The questions are hard, but there are only a limited amount of standard answers, you just have to match the answers. E.g. take 2 Sum, quite easy, but the right answer is incredibly hard, how could anyone solve themselves that they need to use hashmaps? Well, you don't, you learn that these type of questions require hashmaps and then you apply them when you recognize the questions. Then actual experience, yea frameworks and languages are sometimes a requirement. But I would just do tutorials and/or projects for what is required and keep that in a git repo. Then you have something to show when they ask. Don't worry about applying your knowledge directly in your job, you're a beginner and your team (other developers) won't expect immediate productivity.

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_alextech_@reddit

Dude this is so super helpful right now. I'm currently doing an Algorithms and Data Structures module at uni and mate, it's so hard. I could follow up to and including implementation of some data structures from abstract data types, but it's getting into some pretty out there stuff now. At this point I'm just going to take your advice and learn to understand the answers, instead of killing myself working out the answers on my own when I can't do it. I think it's going to really help with my overall morale.

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OnePlusFourIsFive@reddit

That subject is very important and worth learning well. However, as someone who runs coding interviews, I find that a fixation on trying to quantify algorithmic complexity during interviews is usually a sign of inexperience. Most developers should absolutely not bring up Big O unless they're being asked specifically about it. What you want to focus on is understanding where your code has to deal with unbounded, arbitrarily large quantities. Then ask yourself if you're doing anything particularly dumb (needing to touch that large number of data points more than absolutely necessary -- in particular, for user-facing operations that involve database lookups, you don't want to be depending on queries that can return an arbitrarily large number of results at all). Beyond that, note that serious optimization would require profiling based on metrics to avoid premature optimization. This isn't foolproof, but if you're not _unusually_ competent in the area, I think it's a much safer strategy than trying to stumble through discussion of the formal algorithmic complexity.

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Zelfox@reddit

Not OP, but thinking of getting back into programming after years of taking a break from it. (Was also a compsci major) I liked your answer, it reminds me of exams in a way. I never completely understood maths when I first learnt it and doing it 'myself' was incredibly hard. Learning from example and memorising solutions was definitely how I approached it too. And slowly after that I ended up actually understanding the 'why' of the solution. I'm hoping to have that experience with programming too. Like OP, I truly want to try pursuing the career again.

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Tainlorr@reddit

It took me ten years to learn all this stuff after graduation- sometimes everyone has to learn at their own pace. I would honestly seriously consider trying to get into a QA position- the requirements are usually a lot more relaxed, and it will help get your feet wet and is an easy horizontal transfer into Dev when you are ready. This is a common path for many CS graduates.

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thrwysurfer@reddit

OK i just have to say, after reading this thread and your post, I am THOROUGHLY confused about your situation. You say you graduated, but from what and with what kind of certificate?! You said you originally had an EE degree. But then you said you lost your scholarship and "it was too expensive" so does that mean you never completed your original EE degree and you basically don't have any degree? Because you can't lose a degree if you already have one (except for maybe criminal or civil liabilities that cause an institution to retract your degree). Then you said you went to online college but they didn't have EE. So does that mean you wanted to complete your EE degree but switched to CS because you couldn't? But then in the next sentence you said "you are interested in it and would want to do it as well" but having graduated with a CS degree would make this sound super strange as well as questions like "how does recursion work", these things are known after having completed a CS degree over 3-4 years. Then you said your current job is working as a janitor...how does that fit in with any of this? How does someone who started an EE degree pivot to being a janitor? I am REALLY confused. Do you have any academic degree? If so, is it a CS degree? If yes, then I'm sorry to have to say this but: How in the world did you get your CS degree?! What have you been doing for 4 years?! People who graduate with a CS degree do almost 2 years of math in the realms of calculus, discrete math, linear algebra and probability, take an algorithms course, take automata and computability theory, have to program in at least Java, C/C++ and probably another language, have to complete a database course where they learn relational algebra and basic SQL, do a big software project lasting months and also do electives like computer graphics or computer vision or robotics or usability engineering or anything.... Nobody who completed a degree like that would struggle with questions like "what is recursion" and report things like "nothing sticks". Yes some degree holders might be rusty in certain topics like algorithms but not to such an extent that they question their own intelligence and talk about "being interested in CS". Seriously, something must have gone super wrong with that institution that gave you the degree and you to be able to have a CS degree but know so little about the field that you studied that you sound like someone who just started doing a degree. Where did you graduate from?!

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

Sorry, I meant I declared my major as EE from one college. I had a scholarship there, but I lost it. Going to that college was too expensive, so my parents and I decided to do online college instead. I did calculus, discrete math, c++, Java and SQL. I know what recursion is, but I cannot understand the leap from using recursion in simpler problems to solving things that are more complicated.

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Ok-Yogurt2360@reddit

Depending on your situation it might help to look at the way you solve and approach problems. 1. Stop doing any kind of tutorial practice for a while. Instead try to make something from scratch. Reinventing the wheel is an amazing way to practice problemsolving 2. Go back to the basics. We often trick ourselves into believing we understand something while we don't. A lot of people want to sprint before they can walk. Making any understanding of the more complex skills flawed. 3. Try to describe some of your projects with flowcharts on a piece of paper. Sounds useless maybe but it will help in splitting a problem up in smaller problems. Start in a way you can still describe the problem and redraw the charts untill you can solve each individual problem.

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thrwysurfer@reddit

So what was the degree then that you got in that online college?! Because if it's CS, I have to say this is not a great look for that college. Since you already did SQL, Postgres should be very familiar to you, it's just a very specific implementation of an SQL language. You already did an algorithms course, just go through the books and lecture notes and mathematics again and do leetcode problems. The refresher shouldn't take more than maybe a couple weeks. How did you spend 2 years getting worse in something you already know the rough idea from the degree? Since you already know C++ and Java and probably had to do a project during your degree, why don't you just do some new project? Program a 3D game? Unity is free and works with C# which is basically Java but in Microsoft flavor. Or program an Android application, Android natively supports Java. Or switch to Kotlin. Maybe like a timetable scheduling tool for your local transportation network? Or an app that can give you the cheapest and nearest gas station with prices? These should all be doable as someone who spent 4 years doing a CS degree. What was your specialization in your degree? If you did computer vision stuff or robotics or things like ML, you can just do some projects with that.

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Stopher@reddit

I spent two hours Friday wondering why I couldn’t get something to work. Doubting my ability. My decisions in life. Was I just a fraud. Then I found the problem which was a misnamed object and the thing worked. You are correct. Programming is humbling. The largest thing missing from my undergraduate studies was debugging methods. They don’t teach it. You need to know where to start in order to fix something. I feel that this lack of instruction is a giant disservice to the average undergrad.

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pcjackie@reddit

Are you able to step through code and do traces? I struggle like crazy with programming myself but I’m at a lower level than you guys. Try taking Harvard’s CS50 class online. Go back to the basics and build up from there. Sometimes repetition helps. I’ll take a class and muddle through it but take it again and it then makes more sense to me. I hope this helps. Plus I’m a hardware person who struggles with software. The mindset between the two are very different. But each side needs to know some of the other.

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Stopher@reddit

The platform I’m on isn’t the best for stepping through things. What I wound up doing was inserting a bunch of log statements to find out where it was breaking.

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pcjackie@reddit

That helps along with commenting out portions of code.

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deadlock197@reddit

>The largest thing missing from my undergraduate studies was debugging methods I felt the same way about my bootcamp. I feel like most of my job is spent either debugging. Either it's bug tickets, or it's my on feature implementation that's not working as I expected. I had to learn most of those skills the hard way. It would have been nice for someone to put together a list of techniques along with guidelines on what order to do them in depending on the situation.

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Limehaus@reddit

> That said, you don't have to be a genius, a lot (most) of your performance is based on knowledge and not inherent skill. I’d pick someone with good habits over a walking stackoverflow any day of the week

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__throw_error@reddit

Do you think that those good habits are due to inherent ability or learned knowledge?

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Limehaus@reddit

I think that habits and knowledge are different things. Neither are inherent

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KronenR@reddit

I don't understand you are graduated and you have problems with web development, which is easier than other fields? Maybe you are aiming too high for a position, there are plenty of junior web development offers in which the interview is basically what's your name, do you know any web framework? Ok hired.

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StockOk5884@reddit

Now that you have tons of advice, you need to decide what you want to do. Lots of good advice, but you need to direct yourself and prepare for that direction. I suggest something of moderate complexity. You can always build on it. I think your main problem is not knowing how to sell yourself. Be sure to be likeable. Employers will hire a person they like over one they don't even though that person may be more qualified.

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Kitchen_Ad_@reddit

Same story here, same shoes. Programming and bridging that gap from theoretical knowledge to real life applications, is where the rubber meets the tarmac. This experience is humbling, to say the most. Worse still now with the upsurge in AI tools, it’s really hard to actually get to know, since code is generated for you. You only have to tune your prompts to your desire. Long story short, I have tried, re-tried, learnt, unlearnt and still relearning. I have given up enough times and every time I come back, I seem a bit stronger. Maybe it helps.

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RogerPatton@reddit

I also thought like that when I tried my first and second universities, was actually forced to resign myself. Tried my third uni in languages as I thought that CS is not for me. It turned out, it's university system that wasn't. I leave in a average city in Russia, we have lots of problems with education rn. Anyway, when covid started, I've realized that I always had issues with motivation, or rather it's absence. Laid in a mental hospital for 3 month, got remission but still didn't have any clue to what do I want to do next. It was then, when my mom (xD) showed me some courses ad, and I've decided to give it a try. It was a kind of facility when you have to go meet with your group in a class full of 15-50 y. o. ppl. At first, it didn't feel good since they were teaching us basics about computer parts, xors and all that crap. But something happened at the second month of the course. I found out that programming and development is much more interesting then video games and stuff. And there were some people that really wanted to stay like fanatics 24/7, so I sticked to them. Our next teacher happened to be a real professional, as he got into the courses to find some people for their company. I never hoped he will notice my work, but it actually happened and he pulled 3 of us to continue our study at the office. I joined the staff almost half a year ago (almost) without an interview. Had to make some pet projects though. The job itself does not advance you as I thought it would, but with that experience you have more than enough understanding on what to do next. Dunno why did I share that, people on YouTube liked my story :p

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JCquickrunner@reddit

Shiiiii if you feel too stupid for programming and graduated college, what can I say about myself , I was too stupid to even finish college

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crustyoaf@reddit

Not programming per say but I used to always want to be a Web developer from a young age. I achieved that goal. I left school did further education and got my first job making websites. Imposter syndrome set in and I just doubted myself daily. It reflected in my work. I got fired not because I was bad but because I was always late. I was out of work a few months maybe and ended up landing a job at a reputable magazine company in Europe that has a hq in the UK. Again I got fired not because I was bad but because they just had the auditors in from main hq and clearly had to let people go due to cost. I ended up going freelance st the point due to personal reasons. I did ok but again my own head got in the way nd it reflected in my work. I moved over to game development for a while and while I got it I would put myself down when I couldn't get my head round something. I know deep down if i could have made myself stick at it I would be able to land jobs whatever but for my own health I just couldn't do it to myself anymore. I am now a well respected artisan baker in my local area and I'm good at what I do and tell myself I am. My point is. Don't let you tell yourself you aren't good enough because you will start to believe it. I'm sure you do but use every mistake failure and success as a learning moment. Don't fuel your ego but don't put yourself down. Believe in yourself as a programmer and you will make it in your own pace. Just accept the process and take it as it comes.

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KrarTheCuteBoy@reddit

I am not programmer myself nor knowledgeable in this whole thing but believe me when I say ai and computer program is the future continue if you have time and passion for it you will not regret it at all

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Riattatouille@reddit

Programming is really hard at the beginning and it was impossible for me to land a job too, it took me 7 years to find my first opportunity and then I learned that my approach was not correct. I was so focused on learning from basic to advance concepts and how to build REST APIs and backend and frontend (basically everything that I could see on LinkedIn job offers skills) and it turns out that I was just training myself to work as a robot, just trying to make things done and that was my mistake. I’ve learn that if you know the fundamentals of things it becomes easier and easier with the time. And it makes a lot of sence since you will need to read a lot of code not only in your main programming language, a software engineer is able to read any block of code in different languages and understand it and knowing the fundamentals will make it less hard to switch between them, same for code reviews, new features, code maintenance, etc.

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id3amav3n@reddit

Maybe you just need some extra help? I suggest going here communitytaught.org and going through the first lecture/homework. If you learn something new, maybe it isn't you who is failing... Maybe your school failed to teach appropriately. Give it a try.

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c5trangers@reddit

For me, a huge part of it is learning style. I’m AuDHD as FUCK so instead of forcing myself to do a set amount of hours a week or something, I read around it and then I get so excited about the prospects of a language or the application e.g. Python and data science, that triggers a hyper focus and motivation. It’s worth really learning yourself first and what suits you. Are you a practical learner, more engaged with labs than lectures and exams? Do you do better with smaller focused bursts to retain information or do you focus better in longer, structured stints? Does it work better for you to focus on the application of the tools to motivate you, or do the technicalities or syntax and function keep you motivated?

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taborro@reddit

Have you considered just building something for fun? Like, build a Reddit clone? Or even a simple game to start? I am a slow learner, but once I started building things at my pace, I realized why I needed to use a particular technique/ pattern / framework / etc. Object Oriented programming never made sense to me, and I kept reading and trying things and I finally realized what I needed to understand after just sticking with it for years of struggling. Maybe you just need time to sort through the complexity on your schedule, and not for a grade, but to complete a task. I don't have a computer science degree. And it didn't come easy. But I went on to work at several large companies, start a video training site, teach hundreds of thousands of developers C# and .Net and went to work for Microsoft. I've heard from thousands of people who struggled... But I assure you, if you've made it this far, you're probably smart enough. I know some pretty... Umm ... intellectually challenged people who are gainfully employed as developers.

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AnimeYou@reddit

How tf can someone build a reddit clone by themselves ?

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FluxFlu@reddit

I imagine they're talking about a simplified version of Reddit. Advertising, banana feature (??), microtransactions, along with many other things are likely left out of the equation.

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koodeau@reddit

Just the MVP like version with basic functionality and some design. Just to prove yourself you can do it, then you have to shift the mindset of it’s worth it and consider adding monetization of the product/project

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_30d_@reddit

It's a really cool project to learn. It's not something you can do in a single weekend, but it won't take you months either. Here's a tutorial that's pretty easy to follow for someone at OPs level, but there are really loads of others: https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/code-a-reddit-clone-with-react-and-firebase/

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AnimeYou@reddit

Like wow....... . . . . .. . If it's that easy to build a clone of a super popular site Why didn't more people have come up with the reddit genesis idea implementation in the 00s instead of just 2 genius guys?

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_30d_@reddit

Im not sure what the sarcasm is about but you can see it's doable to build a functional clone. You realize there's a lot more to reddit than just building a db and a functional frontend? This is not a to-scale clone, it just has the basic functionality of Reddit. Account login, create a post, comment, upvote, downvote, and some db to store it in.

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AnimeYou@reddit

I mean I wasn't being sarcastic. If it was that easy, why wasn't there some sort of competition back then

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KungFu_Mullet@reddit

You mean like the hundreds of thousands of other forum based web sites out there?

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AnimeYou@reddit

No reddit wasnt/isn't a forum It's a communities site. Each subreddit is a different clique. Also, the official definition of reddit is a news aggragator. Thats what made it distinct from forums and no one else came up with the idea or the code... reddit allows you to create your own niche community... while also doing the "forum" things where you posted and discussed news and ideas

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KungFu_Mullet@reddit

Tomayto, tomahto. It's basically just a collection of simplified forums.

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_30d_@reddit

First of all it wasnt that easy back then. There was nothing like a firebase database as a service. There were no javascript frameworks like React, and there were no UI libraries you could simply import and use. Second of all, the challenge is not in building the site, it's getting people to use it, or even more difficult - coming up with a formula that people will want to actually use. The founders of Redeit spent a lot of time faking hundreds of users to give the site content.

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photoadrian@reddit

People did build similar sites all the back into the 80’s and 90’s. The bigger ones - Compulink, Compuserve, and AOL grew out of the BBS systems when dial-up was a thing. There were tons of them, dedicated to either broad usage or subject-specific usage. Reddit is not the first and likely won’t be the last to have this formula. The code is not the problem here. There are two big issues that need to be solved if you want to run something like Reddit. The first is “how do I scale this site to millions of users?” And the second is “Now I have this site, how do I convince people to use it over the alternatives?” One technical problem and the other is marketing.

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Karolus2001@reddit

OP didnt say optimized reddit clone. Most of this functionality is pretty simple to brute force.

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snakeyed_gus@reddit

Google is a hell of a tool. You can find enough tutorials and examples to build nearly anything.

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SomaliAvenger1@reddit

Watch tutorials of people making projects copy them remake it without the video. Then try add a feature.

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askreet@reddit

At its core, reddit is pretty simple. You take a database, a web service in your language of choice and some html templating and that's all you need. When I was learning this stuff in my early days I made my own blog from scratch in PHP and MySQL. It's quite similar. I think too many people are grinding leet code and don't try actually building real systems then wonder why they have no relevant experience companies can latch on to in an interview. TL;DR: Try it. You'll learn some stuff, I promise.

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SomaliAvenger1@reddit

Imagine you're a beginner you learned the basic a new programmer doesn't have the problem solving skillset required to challenge such project.

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nymphaea-ondinea@reddit

Like 75% of what makes a social media site (user accounts, posts, replies, upvotes/downvotes) is really easy to do solo. It's functionally just an interactive database. That stuff is just a [10 hour YouTube tutorial.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSUKMfmLAt0) The other 10%, like cloning Reddit's infrastructure, scalability, content recommendation, and all the quality of life stuff is really hard. That's why no one is *running* a Reddit clone solo.

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Incendas1@reddit

When people say clone it doesn't mean to the same scale. But all or most of the features might be implemented

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Kirk_Kerman@reddit

A microblogging Twitter clone was the Ruby on Rails tutorial for a long time. You could get a pretty basic website clone going in a few days at worst.

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Slow-Sants@reddit

Im in the same boat i graduate this year, would you like to code with me, being my code bro?

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baubleglue@reddit

Programmer isn't the only job in IT. My first job was in QA (QA automation), it may be an easier way to get into IT. I've worked with a lot of testers who knew nothing about programming, but other do.

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yzp32326@reddit

How does one get a job in QA? I’m a math major and enjoy programming and see it as a potential career path but struggle coming up with personal projects

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baubleglue@reddit

It was a long time ago for me and different country. They're probably courses, the job itself not that complex usually. But with math you may have different options. For the start why do you need a personal project at all? Learn some ML and look for an entry level position or internship. If you still learning, take some into to programming course.

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reactionstack@reddit

Accept the truth and embrace it.

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ted-clubber-lang@reddit

Go find a place where they administer the Activity Vector Analysis (AVA), and make sure the people are professionals and really understand the tool and have a proven track record using it and interpretating the results. I know this tool really works and it will help you find your way forward. Don't give up hope -- the AVA kind of "saved" me.

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HobblingCobbler@reddit

Have you actually sat down and built "things"? Any project other than what you were assigned to do? If not, this is the problem. You're not too stupid you just need to practice. I've never taken a class in my life and I can pick up any language I need to. The trick is actually enjoying the work and using the concepts. It's that simple.

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QuickQuirk@reddit

Keep practicing, work on your own project, and learn to use git CoPilot.

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JayNachh@reddit

Don't worry, you can always become a Project Manager.

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No-Aide1176@reddit

There is a graph showing your exact situation, but I can t find it. Anyways, just push forward, you ca do it!

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Delicious_Pay_6482@reddit

Pro Tip: Ctrl C Ctrl V You're pro programmer now

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mattblack77@reddit

Hallelujah!

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shibawuba@reddit

The best thing to do is to probably build something yourself, a Web app, a game whatever. You will learn a lot and have something to add to your CV. Who knows you might generate revenue from your creation!

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noob-newbie@reddit

Me too.

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bored_pr0grammr@reddit

I honestly think a lot of people get too scared by programming. Programming is like most other activities where consistent practice nets you results. Just reading and watching videos might not always be the best way to get into programming. Think of it more like a crafts degree and less like an engineering degree. While yes there are concepts that are theoretical, what actually matters is your on the ground experience. Whenever you learn a new concept just start building applications. When you learn C# try making a form application first. When learning about classes make the usual vehicle -> 4 wheel -> car inheritance series. When you learn a new concept try to implement it in your current project. Even if you can’t, you will still be practicing and slowly these skills will accrue. This was something I noticed with my project mates in college. In my masters I was already a cs undergraduate so the concepts were super easy for me to implement. But my team mates were not cs students. I always told them even if you can’t implement it, try to implement it and eventually you’d get it.

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Old_Scientist2293@reddit

Not necessarily; some times the companies themselves that are doing the hiring are disconnected from the potential of doing something different or the ones that have been appointed already had some one in mind but in order to look as if they were taken from the pool of applicants instead. Try and go to conferences and conventions that will have top designers and developers, focus on building connections and relationships with them; a referral is what you are aiming for! Another option would be to build your own company and brand to showcase your work with a strong structure based on your own code and framework! Best of luck

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CheeseNub@reddit

Try [deriveit.org](https://deriveit.org) :P

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BreadfruitOk3342@reddit

Evento if you really are that stupid, you still have a chance to get into a well paid job in tech. From inside, you could look for what you are really good

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pledlydo@reddit

Literally impossible to develop the synapses if you do not put in the work. Take it slow, show your brain all the variables, restart at the beginning of the problem, remove all variables and add each on back one at a time isolating each associated nuance. You can do it, but if it's slowing down the creative process hire a programmer. Be really good to them though, this work is tough and they're smart enough to ruin you.

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vimvirgin@reddit

Me and all my homies suck at programming. We never went to school for it. We do it for our job. We are stupid. We love it. We keep doing it. Don’t do it if you don’t like it! Don’t try to prove anyone wrong, prove yourself right. There are other lucrative career paths too.

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Aglet_Green@reddit

You're confusing two things: doing something, and having a job. Anyone who can follow a cooking recipe can craft a meal, but not everyone can work for Gordon Ramsey. As far as programming goes, anyone can learn it: we can teach children Scratch Junior, and we can give teenagers GameMaker and other drag-and-drop applications. There are plenty of tech-illiterate grandparents who can create a webpage about their interests, using little more than HTML, CSS and Javascript. So no, you're not too stupid to program. Anyone can program. However, you may not be able to get a high-status well-paying job. Many people get computer science degrees right now because it's in vogue or they hear they can make money at it, or they did it for their parents, but they don't really want to do it. After all, if a person who wanted to program or code was having confusion over a school project, he'd go to his colleagues and the teachers and professors and talk out whatever the problem was. He wouldn't be embarrassed to admit that somewhere along the way he failed to absorb some basic lesson and didn't understand the difference between a method access operator and a period, or whatever. Because when you want a goal, you accept that it takes time to get there, and you give yourself that time and you work very hard at fixing whatever you are doing wrong. Example: when you learned how to walk. You can program. But I agree, you may lack some quality preventing you from being fully employable in the tech industry. It could be a lack of passion, it could be a lack of punctuality. Maybe you secretly want to be a doctor or lawyer instead, and you're self-sabotaging yourself. Maybe you just did a tech degree for your parents, and you personally want to be an actor or musician or writer. You don't need reddit to tell you any of this.

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

Well, I originally had an EE degree, but I lost my scholarship, and college was too expensive, so I went to an online college, which didn't have electrical engineering. Computer science is something I am really interested in, and I would love to do well at it, but it just seems like I can't remember anything or solve problems. There's nothing else I really want to do.

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Sigura83@reddit

You could try meditation. My grades are much better since I started meditating. So much of what holds us back is emotional: doubt, anger, hatred, fear. Meditation comes to play on all of these. This is how to do Metta, or loving-kindness in the style of the monk Bhante Vimalaramsi. Sit in a quiet place. You can start with music, but it becomes a distraction later on, so I don't recommend it (altho some music is quite good). Bring up a feeling of love for yourself. You do deserve happiness. Put on a smile, like the Buddha's statues show. Do this for ten minutes. Your mind will settle down, like a cool mountain pool on a windless day. You may sit in a chair or lie down with arms by your side. Put 2-3 pillows beneath your head to prevent from falling asleep. (later on, meditation is so fun you don't fall asleep at all, quite the opposite) Then, move your focus on to love for a friend or teacher. Someone you respect and feel positive emotions for. They must be someone you do not feel sexual attraction for and not a family member. (later on you can do this, but this is to get started). Imagine them happy and smiling. They are your spiritual buddy. Let the mind settle on them. Put them in your heart and surround them with love. If your mind drifts away, that's alright and normal. We call it the monkey mind. It wants the shiny. You must convince the monkey that meditation is worth it. You do this with practice. The monkey wants proof! You do the 6 Rs. 1. Recognize that you've gone off track, 2. Release the new object of attention, 3. Relax the tension that has come up and 4. Renew your smile and 5. Return to the object of meditation: your loving-kindness for this person. 6. Redo as needed. Hold your attention like turning a screw driver : loose enough to move the hand, but not so much the tool falls out. You may want this more than anything... but still, you must relax and loosen the grip. Flow with it. Like a screw driver on a screw, the mind will stay with its object. Watch yourself. Meta awareness, the mind being conscious of the mind's mouvements, is one of the treasures of meditation. Like the ouroboros snake, you grasp the mind with the mind. Be gentle. Be relaxed. This is your own mind your holding. Smile! As you practice this, you will feel warmth. Your hands and feet may tingle. This is the relaxation response (you can Google it) and your blood vessels are dilating. With a few weeks, you will feel energy moving in your body, called piti. With a few months of practice, you can call up this energy at will, and have what amounts to orgasms for as long as you wish. But it can be a few weeks too. (the Buddha had it in a day, but he had extensive training in other meditation styles and yoga) As the emotions becomes more clear and calm, release your focus on your spiritual pal and imagine the love radiating from you. First forward, then left or right, then back, then top and bottom. Finally, after ten minutes of directions, try to project love all around you, as if you were a star shining bright light outwards. The focus on your chest emotions may shift and flow to the head. Let it do its thing. Meditating on emotions is a bit harder to start with than the breath, but the progress is much faster than awareness of the breath. Think that you're a high paid actor and bring up the emotions needed. The treasure you're uncovering is even more valuable than money. And the smile may be hard at first, but it becomes genuine as you progress in your sit. If you want, there's a book on this style : https://www.amazon.ca/Path-Nibbana-Mindfulness-Loving-Kindness-Progresses/dp/1508808910/ It explains the stages of meditation, called jhanas. Other styles are Dry insight (vipanassa), Tibetan (Therevada) one-pointed focus and Zen (just sit). Vipanassa is a bit like being on speed, Therevada needs to be renewed daily and can take decades to build up and Zen is... hard. So this method, that of Bhante Vimalaramsi is what I propose. On Youtube they go by TWIM (Tranquil wisdom insight meditation) and they have virtual retreats with experienced teachers for free (altho a donation is nice) You, as a programmer, rely on your mind to provide. Stress and trauma can pile up easily in our modern life. The mind just doesn't work well when stressed. The monkey mind howls and bangs on the cage it's in. Wouldn't it be good to tune your mind, as a violinist tunes their violin? Things become easier to do. Wouldn't it be good to make friends with the monkey? It's quite intelligent, you know, but it's crazed for sex, food and money. Meditation allows you to do this. I hope some of this helps. You can always come by r/Meditation for discussion. TWIM isn't as popular as other styles, but I think it's a good up and coming thing.

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nedal8@reddit

You can. Just takes practice. Maybe lots. One day someone will ask you a question, and you'll have an answer, and go "oh, I guess I do know a thing or two" And realize how far you've come.

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Sigura83@reddit

You could try meditation. My grades are much better since I started meditating. So much of what holds us back is emotional: doubt, anger, hatred, fear. Meditation comes to play on all of these. This is how to do Metta, or loving-kindness in the style of the monk Bhante Vimalaramsi. Sit in a quiet place. You can start with music, but it becomes a distraction later on, so I don't recommend it (altho some music is quite good). Bring up a feeling of love for yourself. You do deserve happiness. Put on a smile, like the Buddha's statues show. Do this for ten minutes. Your mind will settle down, like a cool mountain pool on a windless day. You may sit in a chair or lie down with arms by your side. Put 2-3 pillows beneath your head to prevent from falling asleep. (later on, meditation is so fun you don't fall asleep at all, quite the opposite) Then, move your focus on to love for a friend or teacher. Someone you respect and feel positive emotions for. They must be someone you do not feel sexual attraction for and not a family member. (later on you can do this, but this is to get started). Imagine them happy and smiling. They are your spiritual buddy. Let the mind settle on them. Put them in your heart and surround them with love. If your mind drifts away, that's alright and normal. We call it the monkey mind. It wants the shiny. You must convince the monkey that meditation is worth it. You do this with practice. The monkey wants proof! You do the 6 Rs. 1) Recognize that you've gone off track, 2) Release the new object of attention, 3) Relax the tension that has come up and 4) Renew your smile and 5) Return to the object of meditation: your loving-kindness for this person. 6) Redo as needed. Hold your attention like turning a screw driver : loose enough to move the hand, but not so much the tool falls out. You may want this more than anything... but still, you must relax and loosen the grip. Flow with it. Like a screw driver on a screw, the mind will stay with its object. Watch yourself. Meta awareness, the mind being conscious of the mind's mouvements, is one of the treasures of meditation. Like the ouroboros snake, you grasp the mind with the mind. Be gentle. Be relaxed. This is your own mind your holding. Smile! As you practice this, you will feel warmth. Your hands and feet may tingle. This is the relaxation response (you can Google it) and your blood vessels are dilating. With a few weeks, you will feel energy moving in your body, called piti. With a few months of practice, you can call up this energy at will, and have what amounts to orgasms for as long as you wish. But it can be a few weeks too. (the Buddha had it in a day, but he had extensive training in other meditation styles and yoga) As the emotions becomes more clear and calm, release your focus on your spiritual pal and imagine the love radiating from you. First forward, then left or right, then back, then top and bottom. Finally, after ten minutes of directions, try to project love all around you, as if you were a star shining bright light outwards. The focus on your chest emotions may shift and flow to the head. Let it do its thing. Meditating on emotions is a bit harder to start with than the breath, but the progress is much faster than awareness of the breath. Think that you're a high paid actor and bring up the emotions needed. The treasure you're uncovering is even more valuable than money. And the smile may be hard at first, but it becomes genuine as you progress in your sit. If you want, there's a book on this style : [https://www.amazon.ca/Path-Nibbana-Mindfulness-Loving-Kindness-Progresses/dp/1508808910/](https://www.amazon.ca/Path-Nibbana-Mindfulness-Loving-Kindness-Progresses/dp/1508808910/) It explains the stages of meditation, called jhanas. Other styles are Dry insight (vipanassa), Tibetan (Therevada) one-pointed focus and Zen (just sit). Vipanassa is a bit like being on speed, Therevada needs to be renewed daily and can take decades to build up and Zen is... hard. So this method, that of Bhante Vimalaramsi is what I propose. On Youtube they go by TWIM (Tranquil wisdom insight meditation) and they have virtual retreats with experienced teachers for free (altho a donation is nice) You, as a programmer, rely on your mind to provide. Stress and trauma can pile up easily in our modern life. The mind just doesn't work well when stressed. The monkey mind howls and bangs on the cage it's in. Wouldn't it be good to tune your mind, as a violinist tunes their violin? Things become easier to do. Wouldn't it be good to make friends with the monkey? It's quite intelligent, you know, but it's crazed for sex, food and money. Meditation allows you to do this. I hope some of this helps. You can always come by r/Meditation for discussion. TWIM isn't as popular as other styles, but I think it's a good up and coming thing.

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EdiblePeasant@reddit

How does one plan for, make, and achieve a goal? How does one get there?

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Incendas1@reddit

There are thousands of books, podcasts, videos, articles about that. It depends what works for you but I try to make habits

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StockOk5884@reddit

I don't have a computer science degree but have learned a lot on You Tube about many aspects of coding, programming for front and back end, sql and Postgres. I've used Bootstrap and deploy on Netlify. There are some very good channels on You Tube for learning this type of material. If you want I can name some for you. Most are free. FreeCodeCamp is one of them, but there are more. To learn Git I suggest this : [https://www.git-tower.com/learn](https://www.git-tower.com/learn)

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alexanderpas@reddit

> computer science Common mistake. CS doesn't prepare you to be a programmer, you need to look at Software Engineering. The equivalent of a computer scientist in the electrical field would be a physicist. If you really want to test if programming is something for you, I would suggest doing the course "From NAND to Tetris". If you can do that course easily, you have what it takes to become a programmer.

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ResponsibilityMean27@reddit

Isn't it possible that he really is not smart enough for programming? I mean i get it that you all want to be supportive and nice probably because lots of you are also trying to convince yourselves that you are smart enough and you can do it....don't mean to offend, this is a question I also ask myself every day and it's hard to have to ask yourself that everyday. But....could that not be a real possibility? Could it be that 90% of us are lying to ourselves?

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WoodenNichols@reddit

No, you're not stupid. Got my degree in Computer Science, and spent _two years_ looking for programing work, before I got a break from a friend. In those 2 years, I had close to 100 interviews. It doesn't matter how many times they knock you down. What matters is how many times you get back up. Keep plugging away.

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Mariajesus44@reddit

Feeling discouraged in the face of challenges is normal, especially in the competitive field of programming. However, it's important to recognize that struggles don't define your intelligence or potential. Consider seeking mentorship, joining coding communities, and focusing on building projects to showcase your skills. Persistence and a growth mindset are key in overcoming obstacles; remember that success often comes through a combination of learning, practice, and resilience.

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Wquant@reddit

If you love doing something, it will appear to others that you are brilliant when all you did was keep doing it. Consider taking some entry level job that puts you close to coding and dev processes and then work on relationships with teams doing coding. Make sure they know your interest and ask for their help/mentorship.

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Wonderful-Cupcake-79@reddit

Its not you. Keep studying online if you can. Look for meetup groups to find a mentor and/or buddy up with someone who is in a similar position. Try building projects on your own also. It is a matter of sitting in front of a computer and writing code. Use the web to guide you in learning SOLID principles and OOP. Keep in mind, that software has become a horror story of employer arrogance, over complexity and job competition. The pendulum has swung back to the employer who has the advantage. You are facing an ever growing list of demands for each job. It has gotten out of hand. I would bet you would do fine if you were given a fair opportunity to learn and grow. Unfortunately most employers are too ignorant and greedy to let that happen. They set the bar at superman level.

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turbeen@reddit

The first time I studied red-black trees and B trees I felt so stupid like I could understand the concept but when it came to implementation I was dumbfounded. I had to find countless online resources until I came across a full scale implementation of the data structures in C++, only then was I able to fully understand them.

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pfrepe@reddit

During the decade in IT my hard skills were never the most important decision factor when I got hired. These were definitely tested and made it possible to got hired, but these were rather soft skills, like ability to build communication, understanding it from the process side, not just having a coffee or two. Determination, being goal oriented. I would say the best companies that I've been working so far were always goal-oriented looking for the same people. This might be irrelevant if you're looking for corpo future for yourself. They got different values though. However, ability to understand your values, understand employer/client/partner whoever values and ability to match them is the most crucial goal for any successful cooperation. I've interviewed some good engineers, who were completely ignoring anything, except the "good code" of their own understanding and expectations. Take your skills, use them to build something useful - even it is reminder app to feed your dog with your lovely pet on the background. You'll learn a lot, you'l understand how much you need to learn and you will have something to talk about (probably even showing off).

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Not_That_Magical@reddit

It’s hard to learn solo with no support, it’s not for everyone and not really the best way to learn programming. Maybe try an in person course or bootcamp. Maybe a free one, but a paid one could give you the kick to actually do it. Hate to say it, but in 2 years you’ve not really accomplished much. 3 interviews is basically nothing, i don’t know if you’ve built something that shows off full stack experience (sounds like you haven’t). Build projects to learn and show off to employers. You’re lacking motivation, get something to push you.

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Substantial-Tutor104@reddit

I think almost every engineer feels like this to some degree when starting out. There is so much to learn that it can be overwhelming, but it can be learned with time and effort. Here are some tips that have been extremely helpful for me: 1. Read Ultralearning by Scott Young: Most of us were never taught how to learn effectively. This book points out some great strategies to greatly enhance the time you put into learning any other subject. I highly recommend spending some time on learning about learning strategies before continuing to grind leetcode if that hasn’t been working for you in the past. 2. Grind Leetcode in an intelligent way so you actually learn: Most interviews consist of leetcode questions, but really focus on understanding why each solution works. Try to come up with your own solution, then look at other solutions and explanations to make sure you understand the most optimal approach. Make sure you go back and revisit old problems occasionally to take advantage of spaced repetition. 3. Broaden your job search: You may be self limiting the roles that are available. If you can’t land a backend or full stack role, try front end or QA. I started out as a QA Engineer and was able to transition to a backend role at the same company after 1.5 years because I was a top performer and they didn’t want to lose me. It’s okay if you don’t get your dream job/company immediately. You can build into it. Also, remember that a lot of non-tech companies also employ software engineers, so don’t rule that out as a starting point if you can’t get into a big name tech company immediately. 4. Do some side projects, but not too many: I have had take-home code projects in some interviews where you have to build a small app from scratch. It is good to know how to do this using some of the most common libraries and frameworks like React and NextJS. Leetcode style code challenges are still way more common though, so I wouldn’t spend too much time on this, just enough to be capable of building simple apps. 5. Make sure you have a really good resume: Tailor your listed skills so you look like an obvious choice. In the past I listed all my skills on all my resumes, but that can create a lot of noise and confusion about what you bring to the table. HR people are looking for someone that fits into their box, so only mention skills and projects that are relevant to that job If you spend a couple hours a day systematically working to improve your skills and keep applying to a ton of jobs, you’ll find a way to make it as a coder. Good luck!

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UnsportyNoodle@reddit

Programming is nothing more than a tool to solve a problem at hand, and most people, including myself, seem to forget this. Your post reads to me that you know how to deal with theory behind stuff and code writing part, but need a little help with generally what's being asked of you in a task and coming up with a solution before you dive into code. I suggest you take up some more complicated assignments, and really try and design a solution to the task in your head or on pen and paper before diving into coding part. If you're, for example, learning how linked lists work, try and Google some use cases for using a linked list and code your own solution to it, or take up a task that uses this data structure. A lot of the more complicated assignments I had solved, I had sketched out on paper and only then I had coded the solution, because if you have no idea what the assignment wants of you, you won't be able to put it in "words" either. Even if you're not able to code it in time if you're doing an interview, you still can talk about how you'd solve a problem, which IMO is the more important skill to master.

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CombinationNo7844@reddit

Honestly I landed my first job based on culture fit, not skill. Focus wayyyyy more on being personable, fun to be around, ask lots of questions, feel excited. Entry level positions they really aren’t looking for too much skill. You can do this. Could be you are just very robotic as you’re so focused on the skill vs the social aspect of getting a job. Biggest advice too, if you don’t know something, don’t make it up. Say I don’t understand, but it kind of reminds me of… or say if I were to google that I might search….

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sajidCode@reddit

That’s what I thought when I was starting out but later I proved myself wrong.

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pstorli@reddit

I have been programming for over 42 years. For the last 12 years i have specialized in Android development. My best piece of advice is to not go to school or do sample tutorials or anything else that spoon feeds you along. The best thing you can do is build software. Doesn't matter how simple or hard, just doing and creating something will teach you much. One other thing is to read a little first about the best architectures for the type of software you are building, for me, Android, is MVVM and Jetpack Compose. You can check out my portfolio of free apps and resume at: [CustomAndroidApps.com](https://CustomAndroidApps.com) \~Namaste :) Pete

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AllenKll@reddit

Not everyone is cut out for the art of computer programming. There are actually a number of people in the field that are shit at it, but none-the-less somehow keep their jobs. You should be proud to have the level of self realization that it's not your forte, and to be able to move on. You're making the world a better place, but staying out of a field that you know you're not good at, and by entering some field - whatever that may be - that you are going to be good at. I'm proud of you, fellow human.

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fusionall@reddit

Do you feel like you gave it your best effort? If you did, then programming might not be for you - and that’s totally ok. If you can be on your deathbed without any regrets about your programming efforts, then there’s no point in continuing - you went for it and it didn’t work out. Sometimes leading a successful life is more so about what we DON’T do. If you feel like you have more “gas in the tank”, then let’s think about your learning errors more analytically and try to optimize for the future. Are you learning on your own? If so, maybe investing in a bootcamp with an alumni network might be a better use of your time. If you were in a bootcamp, maybe see if you can shift gears to making portfolio projects that you enjoy. The point here is to stop doing want isn’t working for you and try to find a new path toward your goals.

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I don't know about having any regrets, but it is something I wish I was good at, and I have nothing else I want to do. I'm stuck in this pit where I'll always be a failure for not being able to do it, I'll be stuck in my shitty job until I'm too old to work, and there's just nothing to be done but hate my life everyday.

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silkysmoothskin@reddit

Life sucks

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Bionic-Bear@reddit

I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself. There are a bunch of frameworks and libraries you've mentioned in the OP which is a LOT to learn if you haven't got the fundamentals down. Here's a tip: it's ok to go back to square one and start again. Nothing you've tried to do before is wasted, it isn't as big of a jump as you imagine but seriously. Create something just with html and CSS. Then go through vanilla JavaScript and create a few things then when you get bored and ready to get harder then throw in a framework. I got my first Dev job this summer and i went back to square 1 more than once. It's quicker to get your head around the basics when you've already seen it before. Final piece of advice is to stop spreading yourself too thin. If you don't know C# don't apply for C# jobs. Get a stack that you enjoy and just focus on it. I'm a .Net guy, it's all I did for 18 months, .Net was what I used for back-end so I half-built websites with .Net back-end and either Angular or Blazor (.Net SPA framework). I had never touched REACT, VUE, Svelte, PHP, Python or any of the hot next things. I just kept going with the stack I had chosen and eventually it worked out. Now I'm in a job where I can start spreading out and learning other stuff but for your first job you want to go deep in learning, not wide

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fusionall@reddit

My friend, there is always a way. It may not seem like it but please start with the belief that you can change your circumstances. You are capable. I’ll be rooting for you.

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SM_PA@reddit

There have been some really great answers. I have to say this. If you want to learn you need to remove distractions like social media, T.V., using substances (if that is even a factor) and commit yourself. Set aside some hours dedicated to nothing but programming and go from start to finish. IMO, you will learn much more by not watching a bunch of youtube videos on all different kinds of things, reading short blogs etc. I'd get a programming book and go page by page, step by step and type everything out manually. The ideal book will be one that has simple projects in it. For example, a basic CRUD employee application that logs hours. Starter kits are great too. [https://github.com/topics/starter-kit?l=c%23&o=desc&s=stars](https://github.com/topics/starter-kit?l=c%23&o=desc&s=stars) these are complete applications that you can go through line by line. My mistake when I first started learning was trying to build projects without understanding the underlying code. I know other people that did the same. People also mentioned github and creating projects or just creating projects in general and having a portfolio. That is very important if you're trying to get a job. When I put my resume out, I get many, many calls because my portfolio looks good and I have actual projects on it. The difference from no portfolio to having a portfolio was massive in terms of getting interviews.

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AlSweigart@reddit

You literally have a computer science and EE degrees. You're not too stupid. I don't have time to go into explanation right now, but the tech industry has no idea how to evaluate talent and our interview process is a mix of hazing and superstition *and it has been that way for at least twenty years* (and I'm pretty sure longer). We were all doing the "how would you move Mt Fuji" and "why are manhole covers round?" bullshit because Microsoft did it, and then we moved to riddles and reversing linked lists and all this leetcode crap that has little to do with creating reliable, useful software on time and under budget. There's way too much info and too many frameworks in this field for anyone to master. Remember Silverlight? Remember Microsoft Foundation Classes? Remember UML? They might as well have all been named Ozymandias. It's not you. I'm not saying things will be easy for you, but the hardship you're facing right now is more about this industry than about your skills. It sucks to have to endure this bullshit and I'm glad I'm in a professional place in my career where I don't have to deal with it, but don't make it doubt yourself to the point of quitting. > The only motivations I really have anymore is that I hate my current job, also that I want to prove everyone wrong. Not only are you not too stupid, you have the two best motivations for continuing. Spite is a highly commendable reason to succeed.

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utzcheeseballs@reddit

My experience has been: Day 1: I don’t think I’m smart enough Day 7,665: I don’t think I’m smart enough

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Ejderka@reddit

Do you feel orgasmic when writing code? No? Then you ll propably be mediocre at best

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Foster_Kane@reddit

I bet you don't even Mf

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Feeling_Photograph_5@reddit

Dude... What?

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AggressiveBench7708@reddit

If you are having a hard time learning some of these concepts then it’s more than likely the way you’re trying to learn them. There are many people on here looking for programming buddies. I’d suggest joining with a few people and try to teach each other things.

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mondayleaf@reddit

Interviews in our industry are impossibly hard for some of us. Coding interviews test for skills that aren’t necessary to do the job. I’ve been working as a software engineer for 12 years, am well respected within the companies I’ve worked for, and I fail the interview almost every time. The standard interview structure is not made for all types of engineers. It’s worth reflecting on what about the interview structure itself is holding you back. You could even ask for adjustments if there’s something you get stuck on. I usually ask for coding questions to be take-home assessments, explaining that I struggle to respond as quickly as that environment requires. Not everyone responds to these requests well, but that also gives you a gauge for how they might be as an employer. I also depend a lot on referrals. Do you have any classmates you did project work with that might refer you to their company? As others have suggested, you could also look for related jobs that interview for skills you’re stronger at. Data analyst, project manager, people manager, test engineer, QA, customer support for a technical product, etc. There’s tons of related roles. I understand that it feels kind of hopeless. But it sounds like you’ve worked hard and learned a lot. You’ll find a way.

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LaxGuit@reddit

It’s very easy to get discouraged. I encourage you not to! Like others have said, programming isn’t easy. From my experience, you can think of learning it as climbing up the rungs of a ladder. It takes effort but is doable if you know all the steps/rungs of the ladder that you need to take in the proper order. However if you don’t, then you are skipping rungs/steps and trying to climb a ladder that is even more difficult than you thought! It is basically, “missing the trees for the forest” scenario. I’m sure you’ve had experiences where you learned to understand something, but at first you couldn’t because you missed steps to get there that allowed you to understand it. Programming is a mine field of this scenario. My suggestion is to pick a stack or platform and create an application in it. Could be a web stack, a mobile app, anything. Then before coding anything, research as much as you can about proper ways of architecting that application. Look up open source examples and try and understand why they are doing what they are doing. Then attempt to make your own and use source control when you build it! Topics I suggest reviewing: MVVM, SOLID Software Principles, Domain Driven Design, Onion Architecture, Coordinator Pattern, and just general information on how to avoid pitfalls of whatever technology you are interested in using. Looking into these subjects should help you grasp some inferences that may have eluded you previously. Then once you have built your app, deploy it and put it on your resume. This will showcase you can build an end to end application. If you get tripped up constantly by more technical interviews, then apply on Wellfound/Angellist for positions that require the tech you practiced on. Send them a link to your app and say try it out. That may be enough for them to hire you after some additional interviewing. These are almost entirely startups, so be aware your job may not be easy if you got one from it, but it could be your in. Feel free to message me if you need help or advice.

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Aquarii_Z@reddit

Do you have a CS degree? Idk how you could get one without knowing how to code. Plus, most of the other subjects in CS are harder than programming, so intelligence probably isn't the issue.

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I do have a degree, I just think it gave me a decent understanding of Java and OOP.

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Aquarii_Z@reddit

Was it in CS?

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

Yes

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Aquarii_Z@reddit

Did you not cover databases, DSA, Algo analysis, software engineering, any hardware or theoretical topics, etc? If not, that may be the issue, and your Uni scammed you. I would learn DSA and Software engineering topics if you dont know them well. What uni did you attend?

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I did. We had a project for data structures and algorithms. I remember using hash tables and a greedy algorithm to solve it. I know the basics of SQL, and I learned big o notation and everything. I didn't learn all of the frameworks and everything that these jobs seem to require, and I don't think I learned/can grasp the concepts to solve technical interview problems.

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Aquarii_Z@reddit

Frameworks may seem bloated and complicated, but there are entry-level positions and internships that would train you on the job and dont require you to have previous knowledge of them.

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AugustusGreaser@reddit

> but there are entry-level positions and internships that would train you on the job and dont require you to have previous knowledge of them Good luck finding those jobs, they represent 1 in MAYBE every 100 postings. The entry level market is super saturated right now and employers have their pick of the litter. Why would they wanna waste time teaching someone react when there's thousands of candidates looking for jobs that already took the time to learn it?

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Hello_First_World@reddit

Try per scholas You have to qualify though

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Necessary-Rock-1805@reddit

You are not too stupid to program. I have not been at this for as long as you have, but I feel exactly as you do as I am trying to figure out my way around this. What stack should I learn etc. Please don't give up, your story is very inspiring, keep pushing forward. After reading your story it is apparent to me that you have been working on the school for some time now, you have perseverance and that is what it takes to become a programmer. You got this.

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dbcco@reddit

Definitely stick with it bc imo it’s like football/sports/anything else in life, everyone has a different starting point but with time, failure, and repetition you will improve. However another thing to note is any department in a business would love to have someone that can program. It’s like a Swiss Army knife

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David_Owens@reddit

The way I see it, if you can get the CS degree you're more than good enough to get a programming job. Maybe you won't be one of the top guys who develop programming languages or frameworks, but you can get a good job. People who do stupid bootcamps or even learn on their own have been able to break into the industry, and what you did in one semester was harder than anything they did. Maybe start small and do some freelance work. To use a basketball analogy, you need to see the ball go into the basket. Doing anything real for pay will increase your confidence and give you more "practical" skills.

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ReAnimatedCell@reddit

We all are too stupid for programming, everyone uses stack overflow and has impostor syndrome. its a long journey to figuring it anything at all, you are not alone. any programmer who says they know more than they dont know is lying. it will come together eventually, dont worry

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Unt4medGumyBear@reddit

I watched a lot of really talented friends struggle to find jobs in tech because they never had the skillset that quite fit the description. To me, it often seems like finding a company fitting *your* tech stack is half the struggle. I started in Helpdesk and moved to Incident Management. After 3 years in IM I got an offer to continue being an IM at a company with an outdated tech stack migrating to microservices and .NET (my native tech stack). I still don't feel ready to move to software engineering but the pathway for me to get there is much clearer and easier than it would have been. My point is: there is a lot of work and prerequisite knowledge that goes into being an SWE. I think the gap between where someone out of college is and where a junior is expected to be is huge and only growing. There is no shame in taking a roundabout way to the goal you want.

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kyrat42@reddit

I feel like part of this is a mindset issue. Skills don't just cultivate themselves even with an education. You can develop the skills if and when you put time, effort, and interest in it. That said, if you're not motivated and interested enough, it's going to be more challenging. I guess all I'm trying to say is don't give up your learning endeavors if it's something you're really interested in. If it's not something that brings you joy, maybe it's time to consider a change in direction. There's no shame in that. Programming is hard and it takes a certain level of passion to progress forward with it.

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sick_prada97@reddit

Perhaps you didn't mean to come off that way, but that last sentence seems like gatekeeping. To be fair, a lot of people say the industry is over saturated and it probably is, but to say it takes passion to progress forward sounds weird. If we're talking about something like being a rockstar or a famous actor? Maybe I would understand that position more. But for an average person wanting a decent living and choosing programming as that path forward? Maybe some people do need that passion, but for others, they just need a way out of poverty or dead end careers or something else they don't like more. DEFINITELY not saying you should get into it you hate it, but needing passion? No. I'm eager to get into it because of problem solving. Is that passion? No. Not for me at least. It just means it's more interesting than making pizzas 8-10 hours a day. Would you say the same thing for any industry? You need passion to progress forward, or is that your viewpoint strictly for programming? I can't speak for you, but for me, I wouldn't do it without getting paid, and I definitely don't want to spend all my waking hours working on some side project. Some after hours work and investment is inevitable and expected, but this grind that I see people talk about online is weird. And this "grind" gets conflated as passion in my observations. I guess you could say I'm "passionate" about challenging how important passion is in any career, especially programming.

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kyrat42@reddit

You bring a totally valid point. Maybe passion was a poor choice of words. Maybe something more like commitment or time investment? What I meant is that if you don't have a fair amount of commitment to solving a problem, it can get absolutely beyond frustrating when a bug comes up that you can't figure out. My personal experience has been that when something like that has occurred where I had to spend hours and days troubleshooting one small detail, I wanted so badly to give up. But for me, I am pretty passionate about programming. I spend most of my time doing it, not all of it paid. So that's what has helped me personally in getting through those challenges that I cannot and would not persevere through in any other industry. Thank you for your comment. I don't want to come off as saying that you have to love programming as much as I do to make a career out of it.

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natescode@reddit

Have you applied to companies that don't do Leetcode style interviews? Try smaller companies or consulting companies. Anything to get your first job. Once you get your first job you're *in*. The market is really rough right now even for talented junior devs. If you were too stupid, you wouldn't have made it this far.

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YOUR_TRIGGER@reddit

>I hate my current job what's your current job? what exactly are you struggling with? 'got worse' in interviews is pretty vague. did they give feedback?

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I'm a janitor. Sorry, what I meant by I did worse was during the leetcode type of interview. They are just three questions, and you have like 2 hours to solve them, and you're given points based on how many test cases your solution passes. So it's not like leetcode in the sense that it either passes all test cases or you don't get it right. They require some score like 1200/2000 minimum for them to consider you, and I think my first time I got 750, then my second time I got like 350. I just didn't seem to have any new insight into how to go about these problems.

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natescode@reddit

There are many companies that don't do Leetcode style interviews. Those are usually the most competitive companies.

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YOUR_TRIGGER@reddit

have you thought about getting a job in an office that *isn't* necessarily *programmer* in title? because there are plenty of data oriented jobs that *do not require* programming. but if you know how to, or are learning, are *highly supportive* of you learning and will absolutely help your career. whether you end up automating something and getting noticed, or get to write it on your resume as something you took over if you have to switch jobs. i doubt i'm passing leetcode type interviews. i've been programming professionally in title for like 13 years. i'm too used to reality, which is typically *much* simpler. but i also started as data entry and didn't go to college and plenty of people make more money than me. 🤷‍♂️

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I did apply for a job that was like a data specialist or something like that. I didn't get the job, but I was thinking the same type of idea. I also tried to apply for a SQL job, but I didn't get that one either.

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YOUR_TRIGGER@reddit

SQL tests aren't easy. i'm highly certified in SAS so i had to learn a lot of SQL and answer a lot of SQL questions. i failed those tests plenty and they were like 400 bucks a pop. thankfully, job supported and paid for the attempts...even after failing pretty much one of each level. i don't know where you live but if it happens to be the tri-state area, check out clinical research companies. huge presence here. might even just want to google it anyway because it's frequently remote. apply for anything with 'data' in the title. if it's like anywhere i've worked since i got into clinical research than you'll be able to find a *whole ton* of 'problems' after a few weeks there that you can use as *real* cases for programming and *real* practice in *real* enviroments. usually all you have to do is ask; 'hey can i have python' or whatever language. but learn python. it's stupid handy in an office enviroment. and you'll only ever really need basic SQL. if it's more complex than that it should be in a more readable language. imho.

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

Thanks, if I could find a SQL job that would be better than what I have, and maybe it could help me get into programming. That job did have a SQL test that I really didn't even know was a thing for SQL.

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YOUR_TRIGGER@reddit

yea, i mean programming's programming. i ended up in 'data programming' and then ended up making front end applications that i wrote the backend for so now i can just get named whatever. names don't matter. get a job that uses computers and data and be better than everyone else. it's not a high bar. just apply for stuff that doesn't 'require' programming but it would *clearly be very beneficial*. lower your bar. it's worked out great for me. i'm not particularly brilliant with programming. i used to literally carry stuff for minimum wage before i got into data jobs. 😂

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luddens_desir@reddit

It's silly that you can do a CS degree but can't work on projects. Go do them, LOL. Check this out: https://www.chessprogramming.org/Bitboards Go make a chess app that's clientside only as a project. There isn't a chance you wouldn't be able to do it.

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jasmcreighton@reddit

I have my own harsh learning stories where I was encouraged to give up. Even family told me that maybe it wasn't right for me. But I persisted because I wanted to do it and I was willing to fill up any deficiencies and invest whatever time I needed to. My brain just didn't work like that. It didn't fit the mold. Nothing came naturally. I was strong in other areas but anything math or programming was so much work. Ten years into the field and now I'm at the top of my division in a huge company. We'll respected, well compensated, etc. I think about it like this. While the programming and mathematical parts didn't come easy what my original strengths were are just now additional strengths. I'm much more of a full package. I turned my weaknesses into my greatest strengths. It forced me to learn a whole new way of thinking. And now I can approach problems from very different directions. You can do it. It's gonna be work. But you can power through it and come out even stronger on the other side. You're not trying to be a multi platinum musician or be better than Jordan. Those jobs need loads of natural talent AND the work ethic. If you wanna do it. Go do it. You'll get there.

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deep_soul@reddit

programming makes people feel stupid cause it’s abstract and most of the time is not explained well. so it’s quite a drudge to incorporate each concept. hang in there. you are not stupid.

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BigStickyLoads@reddit

If you have this level of introspection, you're capable of programming, you're just facing a lot of things all of us have to navigate, and they're not necessarily fun or fair: - Programming is hard, and prior education rarely preps you for it - Programming is lonely, learning it requires teaching yourself for the most part - There are so many technologies / things to learn it's consistently overwhelming - Technical interviews are bullshit that rarely have anything to do with actual work Look, I have 5+ years of experience and I am frequently confused. I hate Leetcode and can't grind through technical interviewing...but I've delivered major projects for brand name clients, led teams, improved practices, set standards, etc. None of which interviewers care about. All the things you feel frustrated with? So do many professional programmers. And we're out here as practicing professionals who can show their worth. I had a friend crush 7 Amazon OA's and never get a call back. Then he shook a hand at a party, somebody reviewed his past test, and he got a job. The market sucks right, and the interview process has *always* sucked. Your best bet is to find an "in" at a company - an internship, open source work, volunteering, small companies, networking events, *something*, where actual people are involved.

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financialcomedian17@reddit

Im starting data structures and algos next semester. I’m regarded but I got this!

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luddens_desir@reddit

>Anyway, I either didn't have enough technical knowledge, like rest Apis, react experience, etc., or I couldn't get a good enough score in the technical interview Work on projects? Come on. Lol. You got a CS degree but don't want to get over the finish line? I failed way more than 3 interviews, lots of people fail dozens of interviews, especially leetcode style interviews. Did you know that programming is hard?

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NocturnalFoxfire@reddit

Don't feel too bad about not being able to get a job. The CS entry level job market is oversaturated with new devs and businesses listing mid level jobs as entry. I did exceptionally well in my CS courses and I haven't been able to get a job in 8 months now. Every place I apply to for entry level stuff gets like hundreds to thousands of applicants, some with masters and Ph.Ds. You just gotta keep searching and applying.

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gintoddic@reddit

You literally have to learn one concept for weeks and play around with examples before it sticks. It's not an overnight thing.

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LifeNavigator@reddit

> I only even got an interview for three positions, and failed all of them Have you gotten feedback for this? You made it to the interview stage, so quite clearly you have skills, odds are your soft skills aren't as polished. Programming is only a small part of the job of a dev/engineer and is akin to driving or sports: you get better at it with experience. No serious organisation will expect a junior to be really good at it without commercial experience. Are you currently unemployed or working outside of tech (where you can develop soft skills)? The main problem I see with your approach is lack of focus: you're jumping through mutliple different technologies and not focusing and specialising in a single area, nor taking much time to get good at them. Which area (e.g. mobile, web dev, backend) and specific role are you trying to get? Pick one and a specific tech stack (mainly the one with more junior level role in your area), do some project to showcase this and start changing your approach to applying. Once the job market improves (btw its Christmas season, hardly anyone hires during public holidays), start approaching recruiters and reaching out to people from the same university as you if they could refer you to a role in their company. Alternatively, try another route into dev via another role such as automated testing, BA, sysadmin etc. You'll learn a lot from those roles and get the chance to move internally to dev roles (how I've done it). I did this, learnt a lot to do with architecture, proper software engineering concepts, cloud as well as getting better with Java ecosystem. Ended up being a blessing in disguise.

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piratebroadcast@reddit

At this point, I would focus on learning a framework deeply, like Rails. Your computer science background + knowing Rails or Android or iOS Dev will make you a great candidate once hiring opens up again in February.

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njoptercopter@reddit

How are you trying to learn new stuff? What is your process like?

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heyitsme__@reddit

Programming is one of those professions that if you are not doing it for a living, you are doing it as a hobby. So I could ask, while you are not working, what are you currently working on? If the answer is nothing, then why not? As for feeling "too stupid", I would also like to ask have you been assessed for adhd? I ask because if you have put in the hours, but have not yielded results, there might be some underlying condition that is blocking you. Generally though, programming is not smooth sailing. You are constantly overcoming hurdles. Some people can solve these problems faster than others, and you have to accept there will always be someone better than you. This is what I love about the field though.

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timwaaagh@reddit

I think I did ten or so interviews when I started out. Most didn't like me either. But I got in somewhere. Just do more interviews and don't expect a big payment straight away. my first job was only a little over minimum wage.

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zxvn1@reddit

im also stupid but im leaening so ur not

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Tall_Magician735@reddit

You are *absolutely* too stupid for programming. So was I before I started programming. Then my stupidity at programming decreased with time. You have to accept that you are shit at programming and make steps to unshittify yourself. \*everyone\* is shit at programming to begin with. Some people say "but there is a kid at my college who is awesome". No. He's awesome *compared to you*, compared to working developers he's got a lot of unshittifying to do too. Yes, you are shit at programming, everybody is to start with. All you have to do is decide not to ring the bell, and keep trying. If you work consistently with discipline to get good at this, I *guarantee* that you will. It's hard. It would be great if it wasn't hard, but it is, just accept it and get on with it.

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Klutzy_Stranger_9824@reddit

I have been rejected in over a 100 interviews early in my career. I too, always belittled myself saying I’m not meant for this job. Based on your story, I guess your self esteem dip started when your professor made you think you cant make it as a programmer. Well, you know who else didn’t make it as a programmer? That guy! I’m pretty sure you have the capability to become a good programmer. Work harder and apply for a lot more jobs. Introspect your past interviews and find out where it could have gone wrong. Ask the interviewer why they didn’t hire you. Try freelancing on the side. If you hate your current job so much, are you sure you would love a programming job? You would have days where you hate yourself at that job too. Make sure you’re making the right choice. Choose a job that would make you happily get up and go to work, and not just for the money.

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luminarei@reddit

Bro i literally have two brain cells and work 3 years in industry and i am good at my job. Just allow yourself to feel dumb like working as a programmer means in my opinion to be humbled each day (except for weekends)

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C_cL22@reddit

As one of the best body builders put "you'll never know how good you might've become unless you try, so lets get with it" \~ Mike Mentzer  Just because you seem to suck now means little to nothing if you enjoy it for what it really is, just because your professor says it means nothing because they doubted Tom Brady too, what matters is what you control in your head... so lets get off reddit and stayed locked in work.

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arijch@reddit

the fact that u did'nt accept ur faliur make fail more misreably that's why u need to be open to what's hapenning be more realistic about ur situation and u will figure out how to go through it ask yourself why did u fail all of the opportunieties you have had and do not give up you have chosen a hard field and it's notonly you who is failing everyone can go through this

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AaronScwartz12345@reddit

I read through your replies to the comments and this is what I think; for context I have a job as a BI Developer and I mainly solve business/logic problems using SQL. I am good at that. I am a programming newbie otherwise but I often find myself telling our programmers HOW to solve a problem—I just lack the syntax knowledge to write the application myself. I’m telling you this for context and because my opinion might be a hot take for Reddit, but in the business world, it’s pretty standard. Not everyone is smart enough to be a programmer. Some people just lack the raw intelligence to do it. A lot of people can program just fine, but the lack the creativity or problem solving skills to actually apply their programming to anything. I sadly see this in business. We hire someone who has a masters degree and passed the test. But when we sit them down with a real problem, they can’t solve it. They don’t understand how to APPLY their knowledge. I don’t know you well enough to say whether you’re “smart enough” or not, but after reading through your comments, two things jumped out on me: you seem to have memory problems and you’re currently working as a janitor. I think your problem might not be that you’re not smart enough, but that you’re struggling mentally with something. Maybe it’s ADHD, maybe it’s brain fog, maybe it’s depression. But I get the sense that there’s something blocking you from reaching full mental potential. The second thing is just because you have a CS degree, you don’t need to work as a programmer, but janitor is way off from what you could be doing. Pick something easier like Help Desk or QA testing. You still know more about computers than the average bear. Many people are awful with computers and need someone in the office just to fix the printer. You could get any office job knowing VBA and finish your work in an hour. What about being a server admin and basically stare at lights all day (sorry server admins I know you do more.) Shopify assistant. Most jobs have procedures they want you to follow and don’t want you to deviate from them anyway. Once you get in, they’ll train you. Have you built a computer? A website? There’s something you CAN do and it doesn’t have to be “programmed a Google algorithm clone from scratch.” Don’t put so much pressure on yourself, and go where you’re needed. You want to find the job that’s easy for you.

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AcerOne17@reddit

So I started Harvards CS50 which is free and one of the things the professor David Malan says in the first lecture is “what ultimately matters in this course is not so much where you end up relative to your classmates but where you end up relative to yourself when you began.” I feel like you can apply this to your situation. Also I’d really suggest taking a look at how you’re trying to learn. I’ve been taking a step back and looking at the way I am trying to learn and realized I’ve been making major mistakes. Take a look at this ted talk on [how to learn](https://youtu.be/kKvK2foOTJM?si=uBh9H4xRm_jxZ_rO) it’s helped me tremendously.

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TimeSFG@reddit

IMO web dev and frameworks and react are all awful for me and definitely not the area of programming I want to be a part of. I personally find C really interesting and graphics/game development seems like something I wanna do. I personally hate that web dev is what people mean when they say software engineering, because to me web dev is just not enjoyable, and I always hear stories about pretentious people in charge in that field (interviewers too). There's plenty of other fields in computer science that are with exploring.

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AdministrativeOwl961@reddit

Have you tried doing a little bit of soul-searching? And maybe trying to discover other things you might enjoy and they don’t seem so discouraging?

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eccomassimo1@reddit

You might be taking the wrong approach here. You claim to spend a lot of time learning specific technologies / frameworks, but maybe you need to brush up on some fundamentals first. In order to understand any of these technologies, try understanding what they are actually trying to accomplish, and do some side projects where you build something without them. You mentioned springboot and react. Do you know exactly what problems they solve and why? React is just a really complex way of handling updates to a webpage, so writing vanilla javascript code should give you insight into what problem is being solved by react. For a complex backend framework like springboot that supports crazy OOP principles and MVC patterns etc, try making a simple web server that responds to requests before trying to tackle the abstractions. While I wouldn't recommend "switching" programming languages for your work life, try experimenting with other languages to get a different perspective, and maybe understand a problem from a different angle. Instead of using Java + Springboot (and all of the huge complexity involved with building and running it), try making a simple web server with Go, with no build system, all from the command line. This should be much much simpler to understand, and you can then translate that knowledge to the higher order abstractions you mentioned. Programming is filled with "real" and "fake" complexity. Real complexity means the problem is actually hard to solve, and fake complexity means the system you are working with is too abstracted to understand clearly. Like I said, understanding the "real" problems will help you build intuition for how these abstracted systems (like springboot etc.) work.

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Diligent_Rutabaga941@reddit

While you're thinking... Someone is learning how to be less stupid.

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infected-engineers@reddit

You know almost everything about your self so you can give it a try to develop something using tech stack you better at and interested in. Once done depends on the result you can rate yourself and start again. But if you have some other better choice I would say go with that because tech job would be sometime stressful. You would think you should quite long ago.

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OddExamination9979@reddit

I never in my life have any problem with programming, because I learn form the basics, step by step. I can programming in any language with a few days of practice. All language it's the same thing with some little differences. The answer for your question it's practice and time. If you can talk with your friends you can talk with your processor using code.

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NetPleasant9722@reddit

Basics need to be really strong before going to frameworks or leetcode.

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

Maybe there is a better way to go about this, but I went back to studying regular data structures and algorithms before I tried leetcode. Then I tried to understand how recursion works, and while I think I understand the gist of it, I can't understand the application at all. For example, the tower of Hanoi problem. I can't understand how the solution is even possible. I can't wrap my head around it.

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therightman_@reddit

When you say you "study", what do you mean? Are you coding? Reading?

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redikulaskedavra@reddit

My advice: make programming (and problem solving) your hobby :) Just start loving it without a high-paying job. This is the only way not to give up.

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Superb_Intro_23@reddit

>My advice: make programming (and problem solving) your hobby :) Just start loving it without a high-paying job. This is the only way not to give up. I'm not OOP, but how does one go about this if programming and problem-solving aren't *already* their hobbies? Those things both seem like things you're either into or you're not, unfortunately. No sarcasm, I'm genuinely asking. For instance, I recently realized that - *for no reason at all* \- I don't enjoy problem-solving. IDK man, I guess my brain's just not wired like it is for the majority of people who like solving problems. I hope I can still learn to make it one of my hobbies, though.

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notyouryyy@reddit

There is a possibility your fears are true but we really can’t evaluate that here. It’s likely you don’t see the underlying simplicity in the things you are struggling with. A mentor may help, I think theres online communities that provide that. Good luck :/

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SungVimWoo@reddit

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t, you’re right”

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Feeling_Photograph_5@reddit

You might consider Dev Ops. You can start with certificates (AWS certs, Linux admin certs, security certs) which will help you land interviews, and the amount of coding required is much less. It's a high demand job that pays well. You might like it.

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tastescrunchy@reddit

Oh I definitely am

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clarkejos@reddit

me too

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GoCryptoYourself@reddit

My two suggestions: 1. hackathons 2. freelance When you work for yourself, you dont have interviews, you have clients. Every hackathon you do is a chance to win money, and you get to choose what you build. This builds a portfolio and trains you in building fast. Freelance trains you for clients. Its not the same, in fact, its harder than being employed, BUT, it will help you pass interviews. I was extremely junior when i was hired. I passed the interview not because of my ability but because of my knowledge of niche products and the ability to solve problems that I didnt understand. Give me enough time and I can get it done. When you dont understand the issue, pursue it and explain what you would do to understand it. Keep trying - I know it seems hard, it is, but once you get a handle of it itll come easily.

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AttentionFar8731@reddit

\> Even in school, I was told that the confusion over a project I was having might mean becoming a programmer might not be a possibility by one of the instructors. What specifically was the project and confusion? A lot of instructors lack empathy and get frustrated and say things too, it doesn't mean they're right. I think if you really want to get a job you should aim for a job as a software engineer intern at a "low level" tech company (not the Googles and Facebooks of the world). Practicing one or two leetcode problems a day, watching the videos about them, and getting an intuition about them could be helpful. Doing practice interviews could be helpful too. Best of luck!

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I can't exactly remember what it was that was confusing me, but the project was essentially a Java based meeting scheduler that handled all the CRUD operations on a SQL server. So you had to check whether a meeting someone tried to make overlapped with an existing one, or cancel or modify times, etc. I should also note I never applied only to big companies, I actually only ever applied to local ones. One was for a local credit union, two were for the local school district, and the one with the technical interview was just a contract company that works with other local businesses.

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sascharobi@reddit

Maybe you're just not interested in it enough? Everything can be learned.

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TW54_@reddit

Here is a Computer Science Student in Taiwan. May be I can give some tips for your psychology suggestion, It may not 100% fit your own way but may be helpful. I am major in a department which is most competitively department in our school, here, people are want to get the highest score. My classmate are from the PR99 high school, but I am not very well in test or get high score. Sometimes, I fell guilty and depress for long long time since I got only 80 in 100 instead 90 up. In the past year, I go to psychiatrist and use some drug to control my mental health. This year, I knew that actually I am very stupid in exam and also not the top for programming, But I try my best, and also I know my expertise skill is Quantum Computing and research, so I just spent more time and more time in our expertise field and be the top in my field. Now, I would not compare with other people even I am in Computer Science Department. In conclusion, Don't compare with other people just find a or some field that your are interesting and more sharp than other people, Pick one field and do your best. That's it. For example, your can just pick some language or a specific field to research and try your best. Thanks for your watching, I hope my suggestion can give you some help, or you we can talk. Hope you have a nice trip in development.

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RegularLibrarian8866@reddit

If you already have a job that pays the bills, have you considered taking a break from programming? I'm not saying that you should quit but resting when you're tired and overwhelmed sometimes is the most productive thing you can do. It has worked for me in many areas; playing piano, doing math, programming. I take a break and then when I try again some stuff that didn't make any sense before suddenly 'click' in my brain the second time I try them. Don´t get me wrong, don't forget about coding for a year or anything. Just a few weeks with your mind off work can do wonders.

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Silly-Assistance-414@reddit

You can do it, Nothing is impossible, Elon musk didn’t know crap about building rockets and his determination to never accept defeat propelled him to succeed. Just when you study, remove all distractions from your life, pick a quiet spot, relax your mind and body and just focus on the task at hand. If you have not mastered the fundamentals of programming then perhaps begin with a mid level language. You do not have to study for hours and hours, but pick a time each day and stick to that routine. Then once you get the fundamentals get a mentor to help you at least once a week to get your learning curve up. Then have that mentor assign you projects to challenge you and your new found programming skills. Do this for 2024 and come back in 2025 to give us an update and some projects under your belt, and a career change. (New job!)

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I'm willing to give it another try, but how would I go about finding a mentor to help me?

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teh_gato_returns@reddit

How did you get a degree?

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ForgotMyNameeee@reddit

what do you do as your current job? there are plenty of computer related jobs where the CS degree will be helpful but dont require near as much technical ability.

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Silver_Individual_96@reddit (OP)

I'm a janitor now.

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