Anyone got any experience with engine swaps in california?
Posted by GAMEFREAK464@reddit | projectcar | View on Reddit | 58 comments
Doing some research on engine swap options for the ford ranger i fished out of a police tow yard. Im stuck deciding between a 4.0 SOHC V6 or a 5.0 V8 from an explorer. The 4.0 would basically be a drag and drop swap. The v8 wouldnt be much more effort but id have to chop into the frame to fit the stock manifold and exhaust thanks to smog laws not letting me grab any of the headers that make chopping unnecessary. Anyways, the V6 makes 207hp with very little effort towards swapping while the v8 makes 215hp but requires frame mod and a good dose of bureaucracy. Would the v8 even be worth it that point? Anyone know how hard it would actually be to push this through the smog ref? Is it even worth the extra bit of hp?
Inb4 move out of cali xdddddd
windraver@reddit
I did two swaps in California.
Engine must be of equivalent or less vehicle type.
Like you can't put an SUV or truck motor in a compact coupe.
Engine must be from a vehicle equivalent or newer. So you can't put in a motor from a 1990 into a 2000 vehicle.
All smog related parts must be present and functional. You will be smog tested at the ref against the newer motor's requirements.
Example, I swapped a 1993 civic motor in a 1986 CRX. I was tested as a 1993 civic and all the smog parts had to be present. Smog parts from air box to catalytic converter. O2, EGR, exhaust, intake, etc. preferably stock. If not, they must be carb certified.
My second swap was to EV for the same CRX and it was hella ez because they just check that all the gas components are gone. No smog/pollution so it was literally them eyeballing it and signing it off. No more smog checks lol
Kuruttta-Kyoken@reddit
Do they do follow up checks later on? Because if not then could you do an EV conversion then do a v8 swap?
windraver@reddit
No. It's been 3 years and they haven't followed up. What they check, is that all fuel related parts are removed. This includes fuel lines, fuel tank, exhaust, etc.
And honestly, electric instant torque is so fast it's kinda not fair to compare it to a v8. I miss the revy motors though and kinda made up for that with a exhaust audio system which replicates the motor sounds lol. Also the 1 speed makes it a bit boring since I came from a 5 speed.
Kuruttta-Kyoken@reddit
How much did it cost you to do your EV swap?
windraver@reddit
I went cheap.
So an average EV build using off the shelf parts, is 15k.
A Nissan Leaf running can be found for 5k. 800 dollars for a controller. Has everything you need. Just take it out from the ugly frame and mount it in the car of choice.
Welding mounts was relatively easy. Check out diyelectriccar.com as there are a lot of builds there including mines.
jgerig42@reddit
What controller did you need to buy and why didn't the stock leaf controller work for the CRX?
windraver@reddit
Here's the full build thread and everything documented:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/1986-crx-ev-conversion-nissan-leaf-donor-mr-conversion.205433/
I used the Resolve EV controller because it significantly simplifies the swap. Recently they even started selling the wiring so it's almost plug and play. The original leaf controller like most modern cars will seek other modules on its canbus like airbags, etc. all those things aren't needed in the swap and only make the swap more complicated.
https://www.resolve-ev.com/
It's worth checking out their FAQs and wiring instructions. It's really easy at this point. Motor mounting and axles are perhaps the only hard part remaining.
jgerig42@reddit
Great explanation, thank you. I have wondered what programs do with inputs removed (like airbags as you mentioned). I was working on a piecemeal DC system conversion on a Datsun 720 but had given up. Your way seems easier and more affordable so - win/win
Thanks again
windraver@reddit
Cost wise it's a tremendously cheaper.
I originally had explored off the shelf parts from EVWest for my conversion but that was 15k+. At that cost I might as well just buy an EV lol.
But further more I was big on the Honda CRX and with Honda not releasing their Honda e here, it's down to DIY.
A leaf can be found for 5k or less. 800 dollars for a controller and some steel and welding and you can convert any car into an EV. If you then upgrade the inverter, you can get 215HP. If you upgrade the battery, you can get range up to 200+ miles in range. The number will increase or decrease based on the weight of your car vs the Leaf. My CRX was able to get 200 miles range using 40kwh batteries that get 150 miles range in the Leaf because the CRX is 1000 lbs lighter than the Leaf even after the upgrade (2500 Ibs vs 3500lbs).
The Datsun sounds like a fun project. Check out the forum because there's tons of builds. Resolve EV also links several builds including mine where you can reference and there's an entire YouTube series if you want more video content.
jgerig42@reddit
Awesome. I was trying to make a DC conversion based on older conversions because I got my hands on an FB-4001 for a steel and that's basically a Warp9 with different paint job. But going that way meant every single step was either 1) pay off the shelf prices or 2) do countless hours of research to design a home-brewed work-around so my enthusiasm for the project petered out
windraver@reddit
Yea, I did my swap in 2020 and the idea I had was that I should be able to use a working EV, like a Nissan Leaf which was now old and sold for 5k, rather than buying off the shelf which was always adding up to 15k+. Even if I had to hack a bunch of components to force it to work, it'd still be better than paying 15k. But turns out that the Leaf was very thoroughly hacked by the community and reverse engineered so it's just a 800 dollar controller and the rest is history. If you're good with finding parts, you can easily get the motor stack (PDM, inverter, motor, transmission), and battery for less than 5k. The rest is a bit of creativity to make it fit. EV swaps are now ridiculously easier than ICE motor swaps since the emissions don't apply lol.
jgerig42@reddit
Naw, it seems like buying the whole car is the way to go. Hell, there's one on ebay for $314 right now
windraver@reddit
Oh damn, that's a steal. Go buy it. The battery alone can sell for up to 5k at 24kwh.
jgerig42@reddit
Another question I thought of last night -- What did you do with the Leaf after you were done parting it out? That's still a vehicle that is registered in your name. Do you just give it to a junkyard for scrap?
windraver@reddit
Sold to pick n pull for a few hundred bucks after I gutted it out for parts I probably didn't need lol
jgerig42@reddit
That's what I was thinking I would do, thanks again
pistonsoffury@reddit
So now you can do the turbo k-swap of your dreams and live smog-free?
windraver@reddit
I could but the power of instant torque from a tiny electric motor is insane. Plus I don't pay for gas anymore and get free charging from work while Teslas glare at me for taking a charging spot lol.
The point of the referee check is to ensure you won't swap back in a combustion engine. They check that your fuel tank, fuel lines, etc... are all gone. Its possible to swap them back in but I wanted an efficient car and at 210 HP in a light CRX, it's insanely better than I'd expected.
Adventurous-Ad3006@reddit
That’s awesome. Would love to ev swap a car that just shouldn’t be stupid fast. First gen forester 🤣 Hilarious that this pisses off both car guys and Tesla flamers
windraver@reddit
EV swaps are easier than ICE swaps in a weird way.
Diy EVs are more like RCs. It's literally just wires providing power, like an RC or power wheel. Or like a golf cart.
But combustion engines are pretty amazing. It's a delicate and perfected balance, between air, fuel, compression, timing, spark. Any one of these, out of balance will prevent the car from running. And tuners tweak these to make more power.
EVs on the contrary are in basic form, battery, battery management, inverter, motor, charger. They're all smaller except for the battery and can be creatively located across the car. The biggest challenge is the lack of 3rd party support. So many prefabbed mounts and axles are available for engine swaps but these EV conversions require fabrication unless you find a kit. Also the battery has to be fitted somewhere so it's a bit of a design process to fit it. Different problems but nothing grassroots engine swap folks haven't experienced before.
Adventurous-Ad3006@reddit
Agree that combustion engines are fascinating. I got into cars because I was so perplexed after buying my first car just needed to know more about how exactly it works. Was Already very knowledgeable on basic physics thermal dynamics so on, so it was right up my alley.
I’d be completely ignorant if I were to be like a brain dead gear head and blindly say ‘ice is better hur dur’ like the rest do. Its not. I like going fast, and electric cars do that way better. It’s like the people who say these sort of things have no access to the internet or YouTube. Electric cars slap ass man they are awesome.
You will still see me driving something loud and straight piped until the day I die though. Or until they put me in prison for repeatedly refusing to abide by some hypothetical but not too far fetched future anti ice vehicle laws haha.
windraver@reddit
Read my build if you want. I liked the old high rev Honda so I actually put on a fake exhaust system that allows me to add the rev audio when I want to rev at someone at the light. It's a delicate balance lol
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
Finally a person with experience! Okay, my biggest question is about fuel tanks. Are you supposed to use the fuel tank from the donor vehicle or the original vehicle? Like if i was to use an explorer motor on the ranger, would i be able to use the original ranger's fuel tank as long as all the emissions crap was compatible and didnt trip a code?
windraver@reddit
What year are these? The key here is whether or not the California referee technician can tell. I went to the ref about 3 times before they passed me. Timing is critical. If you can go while your registration is current, it's much easier than having to get a moving permit from DMV each time if your registration is passed or you're non-op.
In theory, they'd like the same identical fuel tank but honestly, how can they tell? They're not going to be able to read part numbers on an installed fuel tank. But you have to have a perfectly running car as if it was the donor vehicle itself.
I went to OBD1 so my fuel tank didn't matter. But if your donor vehicle had sensors for emissions on the fuel tank, they will check for them. I believe OBD2 has some.
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
Everything i use would have to be ob2 which is why im having trouble coverin all my bases to make it CA legal lol. Theoretically, everything id be using would be 2001+. Thankfully theres spreadsheets on the ranger forums showing you what years match the best between the rangers and explorers. From what i can tell, the fuel tank, fuel pump and evap are interchangable in certain years. They wont trip codes but a keen eye would see that the fuel tank is not from an explorer. This is really the main reason i have the 4.0 option on the table since the 4.0 would mostly be plug and play.
windraver@reddit
If you're able to get the right part and swap in, I'd just do it. My challenge personally was lack of parts from the Civic Vx, which was rare to begin with. A keen eye would have to specifically know your car so well that they'd know the difference. It's a matter of cost and part availability. They check if the various things are where they're supposed to be and operating correctly. Note that obd2 reports a lot of data back. It won't trip codes but it might not return correct data when they scan the OBD2 to check. Overall, it's not a problem if you fail. You can just come back again. They're pretty nice guys usually who do their own stuff too so they'll usually tell you what you got wrong and have to correct in order to get the swap certified.
Freakishly_Tall@reddit
Ok, I'm'a need to ask, politely, for, please, (a) a link to your project page / blog / anything about that EV CRX conversion, if you have one.
And (2) that maybe ya drop me a DM if it ever hits the market.
Is there a forum somewhere for those kinda projects? I'm suuuper curious. And have a few ideas. And now a sudden yearning to look for Someone Else's Started Project.
windraver@reddit
EV conversion
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/1986-crx-ev-conversion-nissan-leaf-donor-now-running-and-misc-upgrades.205433/
OG CRX build
https://www.crxcommunity.com/threads/winds-pop-up-86-crx-si-electric-vehicle.15743/
Diyelectriccar.com is a great source for EV conversions. Other engine swaps vary by the vehicle you're modding.
Freakishly_Tall@reddit
HOLY CRAP THAT'S COOL!
I haven't read the links beyond the first page yet, but...
If you're anywhere even close to the SF Bay Area (I dunno... a circle drawn from Mendo to Stockton to Gilroy, maybe?), I would happily bring you your favorite six pack (or bottle of wine or sodas) + lunch just to check out your car and go for a ride some time. And definitely drop me a line if you ever decide to sell it. Always loved CRXes, and I have argued for years (a decade or more?) that if someone, anyone, would build a small, light(ish), fun(ish), cheap two-door (+/- convertible) EV, they'd sell 'em faster than they could build them... an EV-ed CRX is even cooler!
Thanks for the links. New daydreaming procrastination project unlocked.
windraver@reddit
I'll DM you
lemon_tea@reddit
You need more than this. No portion of the computer code or data may be modified in any way. This includes altering fuel map, or turning on or off sensors, etc. They have checksums on file and will check them against what is on the computer. If your donor originally had a "body" computer to go along with the engine computer, it may not run without it and you may have to find a way to trick it into operation.
For sensors and parts, it is best if you can get everything from a single vehicle - computer, engine, throttle control, fuel system, exhaust system, air intake system, and all sensors so you're not playing diagnostics whack-a-mole.
California seems to be trying hard to kill engine swaps. Even on crate engines from the factory.
windraver@reddit
You're right the ECU is checked by the ref but most ECU swaps are plug and play so it wouldn't be hard to "swap after".
Going from OBD0 to OBD1 or OBD2 is fine but going backwards is not.
The key is to make the engine swap, identical to the new engine's donor vehicle, whether that be realistic or not. It will be tested and inspected as such.
swissarmychainsaw@reddit
Make an appointment with the BAR ref and talk to them they will answer your questions. I've found them to be both reasonable and helpful.
OBVs you need to have some decisions made, but I would not do any work until I talked to them about the plan.
Adventurous-Ad3006@reddit
I’d feel so fuckin dumb reinstalling all the emissions bullshit if I already have engine out of the car. It’s getting catch cans, egr plate and whatever it needs to run without.
Sc400 smell so good no cats or anything 🤤🤤🤤
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
I wish but paying for fake smog checks in cali is hella pricey and you jeopardize your smog check guy's entire livelihood :/
Adventurous-Ad3006@reddit
Wouldn’t encourage such a thing where you live, right there with you haha.
I’d that how the street racers do it there, fake smog? Or just not even registered fake plates and all
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
Some swap plates from an unmodded car, some pay a guy to let em pass, and some dudes just swap back to stock when its to smog. All options come with their risks and challenges lol
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
Some swap plates from an unmodded car, some pay a guy to let em pass, and some dudes just swap back to stock when its to smog. All options come with their risks and challenges lol
Adventurous-Ad3006@reddit
Ahhh I see. Always entertaining when harsh laws directly create more crime.
I do understand with the nature of California’s weather and natural beautiful land scape (one of the most beautiful states in America, outside the cities haha) it likes to really trap smog in all the wrong places lowering quality of life I guess.
mpython1701@reddit
What year is the Ranger? Will it be registered for use on the street or race/RV vehicle?
Regulations in CA are pretty strict for operation on public roads.
In general, 1976 and newer you can’t swap an engine that wasn’t an option for the ranger that year. Late 80s rangers came with a 2.3 4 cyl. Or 2.9 6 cyl. That’s it.
If the engine is older than the truck, you must use emission equipment former your year truck. If you install a newer 2.9 v-6, emissions must match that model year engine.
Unlikely able to install a bigger v-6 or v-8 and be able to get it registered.
A basic smog shop will likely send you to a CA smog referee to inspect before registering.
If you don’t plan to register it and operate off roading or on a race track all of that goes out the window.
ka_jd7and1@reddit
You can absolutely swap a non-option engine i to a vehicle in CA.
The situation you posted is what CA calls an engine replacement. Either the exact engine the vehicle came with, or an engine that was an option in that vehicle.
An engine change in CA is to install a same year or newer engine than the vehicle it’s going in, the same class of vehicle (no heavy duty into light duty, etc), and to meet the smog requirements for the newer engine (installing all the smog components the vehicle the newer engine would have had).
Socalwarrior485@reddit
So many people commenting about Cali regulations that seem to know nothing about them.
mpython1701@reddit
How’s that? Please enlighten us.
Socalwarrior485@reddit
The comment above was the only one at the time that was correct in engine swaps.
pistonsoffury@reddit
If you're going to V8 swap, there's no reason not to drop an LS in there instead of a tired old 5.0 that makes no power. It will be the same amount of effort, cost and bureaucratic headache, but will make double the power.
If you want to keep it Ford, maybe look at a newer 2.3 turbo out of a new ranger/mustang/etc.
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
Im trying to keep it on the ford side. Id never hear the end of it from my buddies if i swapped in a chevy motor lol. Ecoboost does sound tempting and i was thinkin about it but NA just does so much better on dirt/slow roads
dummptyhummpty@reddit
Here you go
PPVSteve@reddit
Also see Appendix D of the Smog check Reference for more technical explanations:
https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/smog-check-reference-guide.pdf
Isthisnametaken_00@reddit
What's crazy is that some years ago I saw a ranger with a monster V8 and frame all chopped up to slam it to the ground. This was just some dude who did all of this out of his garage.
Is California really doing any good with these crazy strict rules? I know a few car guys that live in Cali and it always amazed me when they tell me the restrictions. You might as well go 6 cyl but was ever offered in that year ranger? I didn't read that entire link posted but that was one of the first things I saw.
PPVSteve@reddit
Well by allowing engine swaps, because they just as well could of not allowed it, they have got many older cars with LS engines in them now and those blow away the emission numbers from the older engines. But yea they still wont allow super high performance stuff unless it's been through a CARB process.
truckerslife@reddit
I had a 4.0 in a mounted and a buddy had a 5.0 in an explorer. I don’t know the gear ratios but I pulled his boat better than his 5.0.
They aren’t very different power wise but the 4.0 is lighter. For general driving around in a ranger I’d rather have the 4.0.
preludehaver@reddit
The 5.0 has a lot more potential than the 4.0. I have a 4.0 with headers and a 93 tune in my mustang and I'd estimate it makes 190 (or less) wheel horsepower. I'd still go with the 4.0 though since it sounds like it'd be way easier.
Skvora@reddit
V8 with a supercharger will haul your ass outta Cali sooooo fast.
_troldhaugen@reddit
Can't comment on California regulations, but just a heads up - if you do go with the 4.0, you'll wanna make sure the timing chains that drive each bank of cylinders are good to go. My father-in-law's just shit the bed and the (plastic, thanks for that one Ford) tensioner/cassette has been chewed to shit and destroyed his right bank valve cover. Shocked the damage wasn't worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine#Timing_chain_problems
GAMEFREAK464@reddit (OP)
Yea ive heard about it and im not too scared about it. Whichever motor i get, id be doing a full rebuild or at least a reseal + water pump/timing job.
bigdaddybodiddly@reddit
For 8HP? Just get some stickers and a K&N filter for the V6
NoradIV@reddit
Probably a lot more torque, tho.
BudoftheBeat@reddit
It's CA legal as long as it's got all the CA required EVAP equipment (including ECU). Helps if you pull it all out of one car and use that as the reference car.