> The forecast includes $1.7 billion in lost profits from the strike, which Ford also estimated led to about 100,000 units fewer wholesale vehicle sales.
Here’s a thought - they could have just paid their workers fairly and avoided the costly strike in the first place. They always choose to fight their workers tooth and nail. Hopefully the price they paid will inform them a little better when it comes to renegotiating in 2028.
"they could have just paid their workers fairly"
How much is the technical skill of putting a bolt in a hole all day worth? Certainly less than the person who makes my coffee?
>Here’s a thought - they could have just paid their workers fairly and avoided the costly strike in the first place.
Yeah this actually happened with Disney and the writers strike from what I remember. I remember when they reported their losses, that the money lost was actually around the same amount that the writers were asking for so now they lost that amount + whatever they will pay the writers.
Here’s a thought - maybe you didn’t actually deserve a raise above inflation because you don’t do good work.
It’s funny isn’t it? You claim the company is nothing without its workers, but moment anything turns to shit, we’re supposed to believe it’s all the fault of the executives who apparently sit around doing nothing all day.
This is the system functioning as intended. “Just pay your workers fairly” doesn’t work when they’re already unionized because the union would abuse it (as they should, because they’d be signaling plenty of extra money). Neither team is the bad guy here, this is regular business.
This is reddit. There's always a good guy and a bad guy in every situation and the moral standing of each party is obvious to anyone who is actually a Good Person.
GM also announced $10 billion in share buybacks and a 33% dividend increase to boost its sagging share price.
But yeah, fuck those workers, they are the problem. Damn unions ruining everything! Meanwhile the executives and shareholders are laughing all the way to the bank.
Their buyback plan was actually kicked off in 2022. They temporarily paused it during the strike and resumed it. There are lots of legitimate reasons they would want to buy back shares - if they are using shares as payment for debt it keeps their interest rate lower.
Regardless, even with the buybacks, their share price is still lower than when the strikes began.
> shareholders are laughing all the way to the bank
I shouldn't have to be the one to tell you this, but the benefits unions fight for, like pensions and health plans, are largely stored on asset markets. Unions are not fighting to destroy the stock market.
>Regardless, even with the buybacks, their share price is still lower than when the strikes began.
This is key — GM would want to do a buyback if they think the stock is undervalued, which if they have a plan to deal with the additional costs, *it is.*
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I've got no problem with share buybacks other than the tie between executive compensation and stock.
Share buybacks are just a tax-advantaged form of dividend payment. Its just a way of paying out shareholders. Anyone can buy GM shares and reap the advantage of that.
The issue is GM executives likely get bonuses from keeping stock prices high and they also are paid a substantial part of their comp as stock so boosting stock prices boosts their pay.
Fain is going to make a little less than $300k so unless you a lumping multiple union heads to get to that "millions" number but yeah no union head is making over a million by themselves.
What bullshit? The US automobile assemblers? Most of the vehicles are made in Mexico and China. There's a reason Hyundai, Toyota, etc assemble the cars in the south.
People worry more about getting a good deal on a car than having class solidarity.
In general, nobody likes inflation, and few are willing to acknowledge that it is (at least in part) due to the [historic wage gains at the bottom of the income spectrum.](https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2022/)
But that discussion belongs in a different subreddit.
The GM thing is easy to figure out. Buy back $10B in stock, boost the share price so the executives can execute their stock options at a high, then we see what GMs plan is…
The plan is going to be huge layoffs at all auto makers. The auto market is in the absolute shitter now. The good times are gone. The highs over the last 4 years aren't going to happen for another 10 to 20 years. Dealerships are returning vehicles on their floor plans.
They also both complain that EV’s are working for them, and then do a share buy back instead of sticking that 10 billion dollars into building better EV’s. These giants are going to head for bankruptcy in the end because they are too busy appeasing shareholders and not innovating and becoming leaders.
I hate buybacks as much as the next person, but throwing 10 billion dollars at EVs isn't going to magically fix the lack of demand right now. Money for the plants is already earmarked. We really need better battery technology and R&D spending will obviously help but time is the limiting factor.
This isn’t an EV demand issue. This is an issue of them creating garbage products nobody wants, and then saying , “no one wants EV’s!”
That mixed with dealerships still marking up these vehicles to crazy prices is going to cause buyers to think twice about OEM’s. You put out a half assed product, and you deserve no sales.
I know that is a popular take for those who don't actually understand the automotive market but the simple reality is every manufacturer, including Tesla, has slowed investment into EVs as demand has fallen across the board. It's not really debatable. Interest rates, the early adopter market becoming saturated, and battery technology not being good enough for the skeptics are all factors. 6 months ago every EV that hit a dealer lot was sold immediately but that is not the case now, so it's clearly not a 'garbage product' problem.
It’s not fair to say, “every EV that hit a dealer lot was sold immediately”, that’s just false. Even 6 months ago you’d see inventory that was marked up even when they had poor production numbers. And you can’t even put Tesla in this conversation.
Tesla actually sells all the vehicles they make, and they are selling ~350k a quarter, while GM, Ford and the like are selling between 10-20k a quarter. It’s pretty sad.
Tesla issues is not the same as the traditional players, they are actually increasing production at a good clip and building out their factories, so they are finally meeting their backlog which was their goal the entire time and able to explore other levers of demand like advertising. If they kept the same lower volume production, they would still have a large backlog of interest. Hell, I remember back when Tesla could only build 20k cars a year.
I do agree that interest rates play a part in demand though, but that’s not an EV vs ICE issue, that’s just a “cars sell less during economic turmoil.”
But hey, tell me more about how I don’t understand the automotive industry.
If an EV was sitting on a dealer lot with a high markup 6 months ago that's because demand was high and the dealer expected someone to eventually pay that markup. If they weren't marked up they were sold right away. That is not the case anymore.
Tesla has delayed the expected ramp up for their truck plant because the demand is not there at the cost it takes to build. This is the same thing Ford, GM, Volkswagen, etc. are also doing right now.
You said a whole lot but didn't refute the fact that demand has fallen and that it wasn't caused by 'garbage products'. Now you're citing poor economic conditions which plays a role but is not something GM can fix by throwing their $10 billion dollars at which was the entire point of the original comment.
And yet:
>The automaker now expects adjusted earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) of $10 billion to $10.5 billion for 2023, down from its prior forecast of $11 billion to $12 billion offered in July.
I’m pro union, and both of my cars are from the big 3. Every single issue I have had has been due to poor design, not from some mistake made during assembly.
I work in a job that does process design and QA for a major company (not an auto company), and thinking that the workers themselves are solely responsible for quality is silly and simplistic
Like any process, having effective procedures, QC, and strategy are just as important as the workers who complete the task. So to lay the blame solely on the workers without addressing the procedures a company has in place is silly. If a company doesn’t have sound procedures, then that makes it hard for an employee to execute their task. Make sense?
All you're doing is beating around the bush. Employees put together the cars terribly, QC(if there is one) are also employees who then let the poorly built cars on to the market. At what point are these people not responsible for the work they produce yet still are worth an additional cost to the consumer of $900 per vehicle?
My guy, do you think these cars are hand built or something. These are mass market cars, individuals won't have much impact and it'll be all about the processes and assembly lines
Quality control processes and procedures are designed by the company, not the workers. Compare the assembly line QC from a company like Toyota or Porsche to Ford or GM.
Workers are responsible for the work they produce. The workers at Toyota and especially Porsche perform better work than those at the big 3. Again, why do you think it's imperative to absolve the workers of their responsibility to satisfactorily perform their jobs?
You don’t absolve workers for bad work. That’s why you have QC and metrics. You performance manage or let go workers who don’t meet the metrics. My point is those companies at a corporate level decided on a more iterative QA process with more checks than their domestic counterparts. I’m not sure why this is hard for you, but I’m done. Because your either being willfully dense or just plain stupid
That’s fine but let’s not pretend it’s the top brass impacted by this. It’s the middle class that already can’t afford a new car. And the workers laid off as production gets shifted across the border.
MBA programs teach execs to care only about growth, not about raw profit. A company could be making 100 gajillion dollars but if they don’t make 101 next year they sound the alarm bells
The deal with the United Auto Workers (UAW) union, reached after weeks of tense negotiations, will add about $900 in labor costs per vehicle by 2028, which Ford said it would work to offset by cutting costs elsewhere.
I can’t believe there’s still people in 2023 with this view, after decades of continuously unregulated capitalism since the Reagan years. Corporate propaganda is just that strong apparently
but no one talks about the massive wealth the head of the labor unions get, that's just ok? the people fired so the lazy long time employees get more money, the people affected by the strikes just trying to do there jobs? so putting a bolt into a car is worth $50 an hour but a mcdonalds workers can barely make $15.....
Ford will still expects ~10Bb in profit by year-end.
Where is the hate coming from? Workers *collectively* worked for better pay, Ford employees obliged, and now everyone (beside institutional investors) are better off for it.
If you have any actual metrics to support your insightful “Union sucks” comment I’d love to hear it
And what is the direct effect of unionization to these 401Ks? Extremely minimal because 401Ks mitigate risk and highly diversify their clients assets.
~15% share loss to Ford YTD * ~2% high end stake of 401k = very low impact overall
Stop trying to sound smart. Be smart and put together some actual numbers.
> what is the direct effect of unionization to these 401Ks?
It is a negative impact.
> Extremely minimal because 401Ks mitigate risk and highly diversify their clients assets
You're using big words to downplay the negative impacts but it is clear you don't even understand what a 401k is or how it works.
Prove it dumbass. Oh, you can’t, right.
And none of this even addresses the fact that there are plenty of lazy non-union office workers and C-suite execs that do the same shit but get paid tenfold in salary and benefits
Go on, keep simping for giant corporations. How sad.
If you’re so concerned about fast food workers’ wages, why don’t you ask McDonald’s and other fast food restaurants why they pay their workers a shit wage and have been fighting unionization efforts tooth and nail? But you won’t, when they end up unionizing, you’ll be one of the people bitching about your Big Mac costing an extra 50 cents
https://www.businessinsider.com/fast-food-workers-are-unionizing-chains-want-to-stop-them-2023-4?amp
Sure, I’ll keep going. Labor unions are **not** corporations. Do you enjoy being embarrassed? I know that’s a kink for some people, so I don’t want to shame you.
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/other-non-profits/labor-and-agricultural-organizations
>but no one talks about the massive wealth the head of the labor unions get, that's just ok?
Boy, I don't know if you need to pull your head out of your ass or out of the corporation's ass.
Union heads make a drop in the bucket compared to the people who run those businesses that fight tooth and nail to not pay workers a fair wage.
Or they've actually worked in a union shop and discovered unions do indeed suck. Greedy bastards only in it for themselves while they pretend to care about you.
There is a serious threat of slowdown in sales due to high interest rates
Dealer lots are full and foreclosure rates are creeping up , car companies in general are screwed if the interest rates don't come down
It’s not just interest rates either. Vehicle pricing has gone through the roof. Just using Ford, the maverick went from $21k to $25k in *two model years*. The F150 went from $31.5k to $38.5k in the same time.
Lucky, I'm jealous that I couldn't get an order in for a Maverick before the price hikes. Oddly enough, when Ford made a lot of the features standard on the Maverick Lariat it ended up coming in a little cheaper with more options selected on the '24 vs. the '23 that I spec'd on the build site.
How is your Maverick holding up? Just picked my Lariat up two weeks ago and I love it.
Most things are holding up well. However, it's a cheap Ford.
I've had two failed batteries in two years. The windshield used to tick because it wasn't placed correctly at the factory. Stuff like that.
My biggest gripe is the interior plastic is absolute dogshit.
Is yours a hybrid? Is that what you mean by battery failure? I have the Ecoboost
I believe I have the windshield tick, as well. It is the only rattle in the car. People have said that it eventually goes away on its own. Definitely, a lot of plastic but I knew that going into it, it looks nice with the design but we'll see how it holds up.
Only real gripes I have so far is no powered rearview mirror and the B&O Soundsystem is a little lackluster, imo
Nope. The 12v battery. I have an EcoBoost.
The ticking requires the windshield to be reseated or the windshield pucks to be melted off. If the clicking gets worse with the colder weather, it's likely that.
The B&O is poor as well. Overly boomy with no real presence.
Yikes, that is a bit concerning, must be some sort of parasitic loss somewhere.
I don't hear the tick all the time. Seems like I need to be driving for a little bit before it starts but it does seem to happen more when it is cold. It's tough to narrow down its location but it's on the passenger side, I can't tell if it's from the dash or windshield. Tried having my girlfriend listen for it but that didn't really help, she said she could barely hear it. probably have one of my friends try to listen for it.
Could be. Their batteries are also terrible.
If it's the same issue as mine, you'll have a very tough time figuring out where it's coming from. It sounds like it's from the dash, but it's really from the windshield hitting the body at the top of the vehicle frame.
Ford has no official guidance out for dealers, but you'll see hundreds of messages on the forums regarding it.
Yep, I have read a bunch of those because the tapping noise was kind of driving me nuts. It hasn't seemed as bad the past couple of drives but it's still there.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there is an easy DIY fix. I don't really feel comfortable ripping off the trim and trying to melt/cut that alignment pin. I also don't really feel like trying to argue with the dealership to try and prove this is an actual issue. Might just have to learn to live with it.
I couldn't live with it. If they give you the runaround and tell you they don't know, tell them to call the Ford field engineers. They're well aware of the issue.
Actually vehicle rates are coming down compared to the last two years , a lot of models are being discounted .
Most Americans do not care about sticker price , monthly payment is all that matters
Most definitely
But most aren’t even able to get financed for those 72-84 months
Hell i want to put $15k down for a used truck and financing still was $600 60 months
Couldn’t justify driving my 2013 Prius to the ground currently 128k miles and paid off going into my 4th year owning this
I need a solid truck my max comfortable price OTD is 35k so just waiting as i see prices dropping
"The deal with the United Auto Workers (UAW) union, reached after weeks of tense negotiations, will add about $900 in labor costs per vehicle by 2028. Ford said it would work to offset that by cutting costs elsewhere."
Start by trimming C suite pay
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