Overflew a 100-hour... what can I expect?

Posted by Fun-Muscle-4167@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 206 comments

I'm a relatively new CFI at a Part 141 flight school with around 520 hours. (This is also a throwaway... but I'm a regular on this sub). Student and I did a cross country the other day and I realized when we got back that I put 0.6 more on the tach then I should have... oops. 100hr got busted. Really no way around it other than the fact that I was PIC and I was a complacent idiot for not checking close enough. I knew what the tach times were but didn't know when the next 100hr was due. Again, that's user error and definitely on me. I filed a NASA report and talked to our chief pilot who wants me to give a written report, a copy of my cert, and my medical to the FAA and speak at the next CFI meeting in December about my mistake. (Both the NASA report and the speech I'll give were mentioned as ways I responded to the situation in the report I'm giving to the FAA). This is my first official "on the record" violation and I'm not sure what to expect. My chief flight instructor said I can expect a call from someone (didn't really say who) and to just kind of wait and see what happens. So, how hard is the FAA going to come down on me for this? I think the answer is "not very" but I just want to see what I can actually expect. I'm also going to put this on just about every single job app from here on out. I don't think hiding anything, let alone a possible violation, is worth it in the slightest. I don't know if a violation like this is big enough to be any kind of show-stopper, but do you think airlines would look at this and show me the door? Again, I don't think so but I just want some clarification on what to expect moving forward.

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HbrewHammrx2@reddit

Dude what? You missed a paperwork detail, didn’t break anything or hurt anyone and then filled a NASA report. There’s absolutely zero cause for any concern. I was at a flying club and people flew a plane for months without realizing the old registration was inside the plane. This included professional 121 captains, “master” CFI’s and the very person who did the new registration for the plane but forgot to put it in there. Somehow all of us managed to stay out of pilot jail and salvaged our careers 🤪 You’re fine.

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TheFlyingSparky@reddit

I could totally see that happening. I have probably actually read the registration card on my plane twice in the last year. For the most part,when I preflight, I just look to see that it's there.

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Bot_Marvin@reddit

To be honest I don’t even check

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Mispelled-This@reddit

I always verify that there’s something white in that pocket, but I’ve only ever actually read them before a checkride.

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wherethe3at@reddit

This is an absolutely perfect, low-stakes answer to the “when did you screw up and learn from it” interview question.

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Soft_Doctor_1135@reddit

I made the terrible mistake of being honest with the FAA, taking me six months to get my medical because I had a cardiac exam with normal results. I learned that it is easier to commit felonies

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TheEclipsse@reddit

Damn, that so stupid they would differ you for that long when you had normal results. What paperwork did they make you submit? Another cardiac exam with normal results?

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Soft_Doctor_1135@reddit

Going to a cardiologist at all is apparently a sign that you’re going to drop dead at any moment. They accused me of lying when I told them I went just as a precaution. Then they accused me of forging medical records because I left a cover sheet off the 1000 pages detailing every doctor’s appointment I’ve ever had. And then when it turned out that I didn’t forge anything and I didn’t lie, they claimed that just because they didn’t find anything doesn’t mean there’s nothing there and then accused me of omitting secret “dark appointments” with cardiologists. And then they made me track down my retired childhood doctor to write them a letter saying I didn’t have childhood heart issues. And then they made me get similar letters from every doctor I’ve ever seen. But that still wasn’t enough. It turned out that lawyers, not doctors are sometimes what’s needed to expedite the process.

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TheEclipsse@reddit

Holy shit that’s fucking insane, punished for taking preventative measures, absolutely unbelievable. They literally give you no choice but to lie, because the second you’re truthful about anything they pull this type of shit. I’m sorry to rant but reading your story makes me so fucking angry at this shitty system, my dad died of something that if caught early, could be treatable, but he was so scared of going to the doctor for a n y t h i n g because of shit like this that they caught it too late and he ended up passing away. It makes me so fucking angry they rather have pilots never do preventive scans or anything of the sort. Fuck the FAA you pieces of shit

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Soft_Doctor_1135@reddit

I think it’s all about liability. If you crash a 737 the media circus will be about how the FAA cleared you to fly despite x y and z. By forcing you to lie they can paint you as a lying sack of shit and a murderer even if medical issues had nothing to do with the crash. I’d bet money insurance companies are absolutely loving the fact that half the pilots lie on their medical apps, makes it much easier to deny claims.

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WingedGeek@reddit

> I learned that it is easier to commit felonies You [probably committed three today](https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229).

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maethor1337@reddit

I expected [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE) but I assume the message is the same.

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siouxu@reddit

Took me a year because I had an EKG at the age of 18. Like all I wanted was a third class ticket to get my ppl in college and never fly again and there's geriatrics out flying private jets.

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BannedUser0018@reddit

This isn't a violation, my guy. Move on with your life.

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Fun-Muscle-4167@reddit (OP)

Fair enough, really starting to think both myself and my bosses are overreacting

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Funkshow@reddit

Were you made aware that the plane was bumping up against 100 hours? I’ve never seen the responsibility to track maintenance put ins pilot. Looks to me that they are covering their asses by exposing yours.

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Mispelled-This@reddit

It is the PIC’s responsibility, period. However, most clubs/schools use scheduling software that tracks that for us, so all we have to do is check times on the dispatch sheet. In fact, just yesterday I got a warning about potentially overflying the 100-hour for a flight I booked 2 weeks out. I’m confident they’ll do the inspection by then, but if not, the system will refuse to dispatch the plane, and I’ll switch to a different one.

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Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit

I’ve never seen this not a responsibility of the PIC, funny enough 🤷🏼‍♂️. At my flight school and everywhere I have rented since, there was a separate column for tach time and I’ve always been expected to check it against my expected trip hours to make sure I didn’t overrun the 100, except for an unexpected deviation, my flight school’s policy (and consistent with the CFR) was that we weren’t allowed to use the overage buffer, that was for them to fly it over to maintenance on another field. The CFR puts it on you too: > no **person** may give flight instruction for hire… > The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours **while en route to** reach a place where **the inspection** can be done.

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WingedGeek@reddit

> everywhere I have rented since, there was a separate column for tach time and I’ve always been expected to check it against my expected trip hours to make sure I didn’t overrun the 100 If you're just renting (or even if you're taking a checkride), the 100 hour inspection doesn't apply. You can fly it to 125 hours and you're fine. But the plane will need the 100 hour before it can be used to instruct in again (or be operated for hire). https://shackelford.law/news-aviation/when-is-the-100-hour-inspection-due-for-aircraft-used-for-rental-and-flight-instruction/ https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/2014/05/100-hour-inspections-explained/ My multiengine DPE tried to stump me on that one, but I ain't no sucka!

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Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit

Yes good point on the distinction, I’ve owned a plane since I got my PPL so most of my rentals have been for instructional purposes and the OP is talking about instructing. But the school’s policies are still that for renters. I imagine if you were going for a long trip you could ask and get it sorted. The one by me though is very good about keeping their planes on a cycle so they always have 1 with a fresh 100 , or close to it, ready to go. They’ll do the inspection early to keep it that way; so it’s pretty unreasonable to not just keep it easier for their records and take another plane because I highly doubt you’re going to do more than 20 hours on a rental that belongs to a flight school. At that point you are already arranging taking their plane for a multi-day trip so those things can be sorted. I think the issue from the flight schools perspective is that the rule doesn’t distinguish going over the 10 hours for ancillary use, so though the flight was legal for *you*, that doesn’t really provide the school a means to justify it when they need it for instruction again. If it weren’t for the language of the 10 hour buffer I would say you just pick up where you left off but it specifically says the buffer ticks against your next 100 hour interval. So if you take the plane out at 98 hours and fly it to 201, you’ve missed two intervals in your records, one you can’t get back. Logic would say that’s fine, and that you didn’t fly into a buffer because it wasn’t required when you were flying, but playing with logic and the FAA can get you in hot water, so they just don’t do it. I’d be curious if there was ever an interpretation of solo flights for PPL solos. It’s for instructional purposes but you aren’t getting instruction per se.

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rckid13@reddit

I used to work dispatch for a large flight school, and I could see time to each inspection on the dispatch system. When I assigned a plane for say a two hour flight block that had less than 3 hours until the next inspection I would always make sure to tell the instructor and student exactly how long they had. I've definitely assigned a few where it was the last plane left, it had like 1.5 to the next inspection but the instructor wanted it. In that situation I would definitely warn them a couple of times that it needed to be back in 1.5 max time, but it absolutely was on the instructor to make sure they complied with that request. Then once the plane was returned back to me at dispatch it was my responsibility to make sure I grounded it for maintenance because now it had no more useful time left. So TL;DR it's certainly on the instructor to track it, but any good flight school should have multiple levels of people watching this stuff too. Maintenance should know when the planes are due, dispatchers if the school has them should know when the planes are due, and at a small school that doesn't have dispatch the instructors and chief should probably know when they're close to due.

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Dogmanscott63@reddit

Where is teach we very clearly teach to check taxh time against the time for 100 hour listed on the checkout/checkin sheet. Of course we have a very good owner and office staff that track and schedule maintenance so we don't run into this issue. We are also supposed to list for every flight how much time we expect to use in the scheduling software. For the OP, you did right filing the NASA report. I like the talk on How/why/ lesson learned to the school.. reporting to FAA probably overkill.

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ATPLguy@reddit

Your boss is just trying to cover his ass most probably, I know I would.

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dopexile@reddit

It makes me wonder why their scheduling software doesn't catch that and allows it be at the mercy of human error. If you have a that has 98 hours on it, and you try to rent it for 3 hours, it should tell you that you need to rent a different plane.

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ShitBoxPilot@reddit

Tbf, if your bosses make it look like nothing to everyone, that’s how a “culture” starts to form

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Murky-Resident-3082@reddit

Yeah it’s pretty clear in these books the faa prints every year nobody bothers to read it’s so ridiculous

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FriedChicken@reddit

What the fuck am I reading....

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dbevans12@reddit

I know someone who’s been flying a Taylor craft that hasn’t had an annual in 15 years. I think you’ll be fine

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iamnotadumbster@reddit

That guy who flies with a parachute and fire extinguisher strapped to himself? He also modded the Taylorcraft with several GoPro's as well!

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TheFlyingSparky@reddit

Let me guess, 70 YO farmer with no medical flying off his own grass strip. I have known more than 1.

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dl_bos@reddit

If he is flying a Taylorcraft he probably only needs a driver’s license. The annual inspection is another story.

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fighterace00@reddit

"It took off, guess it's airworthy"

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TheFlyingSparky@reddit

That's true.

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I-16_Chad@reddit

Do they fly with a parachute on and a fire extinguisher strapped to their leg?

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Zeewulfeh@reddit

This is absolutely stupid and I will happy call your chief pilot a moron to his face. And if he wants to split hairs and says "it's one flight" fine. You took off, and then you flew it to where the maintenance check will occur. Good enough. Just subtract the .6 from the next 100 hour. The grace period is there for a reason.

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RescueForceOrg@reddit

When you are done, send me his number and I will call him a moron as well. This is such a non-issue I can’t believe anyone is concerned. Just take the plane out of service and have the mechanic do a 100hr. This doesn’t even need to be addressed. Just try and avoid it next time.

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Rough-Aioli-9622@reddit

Bro delete this post the FAA is going to kidnap you tonight

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dyslexic_of_borg@reddit

Too late. The black vans have been dispatched already.

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fender1878@reddit

Don’t worry. We’ll have him back by dinner.

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dyslexic_of_borg@reddit

BY dinner.. or FOR..?

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bzimm41@reddit

I thought it was black helicopters on silent mode.

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ops_asi@reddit

They’re Chinooks, helicopters with vans in them.

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jrf1234@reddit

And you can bet that those black helicopters had their 100 hour inspections done!

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luckeycat@reddit

They certainly did, *99 hours ago*.

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Sleep_Holiday@reddit

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard…”chief pilot who wants me to give a written report, a copy of my cert, and my medical to the FAA”… bro what? You can overlay the 100hr by up to 10 hours and they just take it off the interval for the next 100hr inspection to be done in like 98 or 97 hours etc. Literally a non issue happens all the time. I would leave this school personally, sounds like they don’t know what the hell they are talking about themselves… can’t believe they are running a flight school. Yikes.

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Fun-Muscle-4167@reddit (OP)

I'm well aware of 91.409 and the 10-hour overfly rule. I teach that to my private students all the time. I actually brought that up with the chief who said it doesn't apply because of 141... I honestly have no idea what that means. It was a training flight that started and ended at one specific airport with a stop at the XC destination... which in his terms counts as one giant flight that collectively overflew the 100 hour for no reason... I think that's why he believes it's a violation. Kinda made it sound like the rules that regulate our flights are over my head.

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Simplisticjackie@reddit

Wait. Sorry. I'm just about to head into my PPL checkride and have been studying this 91.400's section today like crazy and now you've completely confused me on this... The flight didn't start beyond the 100 hour mark. You just landed beyond the 100 hr mark. But my understanding was you can fly beyond the 100 hr to return to your home airport or service airport without any ferry permits up to 10 hrs, and there didn't seem to be parts prohibiting flying it beyond 109.9 hours for hire either. The only weird thing was the following 100hr would still be due at 90.1 hrs. If you used up 9.9 of the 10 allowable hours. So for specific student training flights there is an additional regulation that says you can't use those 10hrs in 141 somewhere?

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makgross@reddit

Reread 91.409. The prohibition is not taking off after 100 hours. It’s operating for hire or giving flight instruction. You can exceed only if transporting the aircraft to its inspection. That’s not the case for dual instruction, ever. It’s a commercial operation (ferrying). Note that the overflight doesn’t apply if there are ADs due, unless the AD has its own overflight rule (and I’ve never seen that). Recurrent ADs are unfortunately common. Having said that, the OP isn’t going to be in much trouble if any for an accidental overflight. Intentional might be a different story. A NASA form might be a good idea. And don’t do it again.

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dl_bos@reddit

For another can of worms… Flight instruction is NOT a commercial operation. A flight instructor is being paid to teach, not to perform any of the other things that look like a commercial operation. That is why, for instance, your student is not allowed to engage in any “side work” at a stop on a XC flight. Also why you can instruct without a medical as long as you’re not required to be the actual PIC. (Another can of worms!)

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fighterace00@reddit

Since when is performing work at a destination part of commercial flight?

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dl_bos@reddit

A long time ago and I think at a FIRC. I don’t choose to research it now but the logic is: if you are doing a dual XC then the purpose of the flight has to be purely flight instruction. On the other hand, if you do a “dual cross country” in the flight school aircraft, as I think we are discussing here, and your student goes to, say, a branch office and performs some work for his company, that flight becomes a charter flight. Would you get caught? Not likely in my opinion. YMMD

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fighterace00@reddit

Oh because the student is the passenger I understand now. And if the student is a PPL given dual?

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dl_bos@reddit

Yep!

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Fun-Muscle-4167@reddit (OP)

Yes but any time flown beyond those 100 hours must be done in order to move the airplane to a place where maintenance can be preformed, or for unforeseen circumstances. You also can't randomly decide at 99.9 hours that you're going to do a 5 hour XC. Basically you can't intentionally overfly a 100-hour for hire unless you're moving the airplane to a maintenance base. Don't worry about any 141 crap on your checkride. I don't even understand that entirely.

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Rough_Function_9570@reddit

> I actually brought that up with the chief who said it doesn't apply because it was a training flight operated under 141. I'm not really 100% sure what they meant by that. Of course you aren't sure - because it's bullshit. Ask him to point you to the FAR that makes it different for 141.

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WinnieThePig@reddit

91 most certainly applies to 141, unless a part of 141 is more restrictive, which I don't believe it is in this case...but I'm willing to be wrong if your chief can provide hard proof.

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RagingCacti@reddit

Yeah... no... 91 covers everything. It's the umbrella that all of the other parts operate under unless there's an exception or FAR that adds to it.

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CappyJax@reddit

This is a joke, right?

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dragonguy0@reddit

Have you been watching the questions from here lately? xD

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SDPilot@reddit

I think is what girls feel when they say they’ve “got the ick”

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Jay18001@reddit

It’s really not your fault. It’s the schools fault. They shouldn’t have dispatched that plane that close to the 100 hour

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the_warmest_color@reddit

I get what you are saying but in really the PIC is responsible for making sure plane is airworthy. That being said what OP did is not the end of the world

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fighterace00@reddit

Responsibility isn't the same as final authority. Yes they were the last kind of defense and technically should have seen it. That doesn't mean maintenance and dispatch don't bear any responsibility.

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VanDenBroeck@reddit

Not necessarily true. For instance, if a plane has 3.2 hours left before the next 100 hour inspection, who is to say how long the next flight will be. It could be a 3 hour planned flight that goes over due to wind, weather, or ATC. Also the 100 hour inspection is only relevant to for hire operations such as flight instruction. A pure rental could fly past the 100 hour interval by how many hours they want to. So the owner/flight school/FBO wouldn’t want to park the plane just because it is close to the 100 hour. That risks loss of revenue.

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MaulForPres2020@reddit

Believe it or not, also jail.

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csl512@reddit

OP should but a meat thermometer so they nail their fish and chicken, as well as do research on the proper prices for sweaters and glasses.

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I-r0ck@reddit

14 CFR 91.409(b) states “The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done”. Unless you can do the 100 hour inspection in the air, it’s legal to fly past the 100 hours just once you land you can’t take back off.

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mtconnol@reddit

I believe that would only be with a ferry permit in hand.

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Weasel474@reddit

Nope! Ferry permit for exceeding the annual or having a non-airworthy plane, but not for the 100+10.

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Rexrollo150@reddit

Yep and with a ferry permit all ADs must be complied with as well. You couldn’t even legally move an unairworthy plane one day past the annual out of the path of a hurricane if the ADs weren’t all signed off.

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Metal-Material@reddit

I had to look this up, but you can get a ferry permit for past due or non-complied with ADs if the AD specifies a special flight permit may be issued for it. I imagine for a lot of if not most recurring ADs you would be able to get a ferry permit without it. Especially if you are flying to a maintenance base to comply with the AD. After all they’re issued in a case by case basis, going to a base to comply with the AD sounds like a reasonable request for a ferry permit. Now I wanna say I haven’t looked through any ADs to see what percentage of them actually allow a ferry permit issuance, but I can’t imagine the FAA would deny you moving out of the way of a hurricane because you didn’t inspect your seat rails.

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ragedracer1977@reddit

You absolutely CAN get a ferry permit with past due ADs.

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mtconnol@reddit

Ah, right - exceeding the annual is different, thanks for the reminder.

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Weasel474@reddit

Any time!

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VanDenBroeck@reddit

Wrong. No need for a ferry permit.

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I-r0ck@reddit

That would be if you over fly an annual inspection or the 10 hours past the 100 hours

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cbrookman@reddit

On that note, you can’t *intend* to overfly the 100 hour. If you leave for a long cross country with .3 left on the tach with the excuse that “I’m bringing it back to the station for repair”, that doesn’t hunt. If you get held out of the Delta for traffic and land .2 over, that’s fine.

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Rexrollo150@reddit

Funnily enough there’s no such grace for ADs. I’ve always wondered what would happen in that scenario. “Tower N123AB declaring an emergency, we need immediate priority for landing we have 0.2 hours left before our seat rail AD comes due.”

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I-r0ck@reddit

Yes! I forgot about AD’s Thank You!

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mkosmo@reddit

But if you have .3 left and you depart on a 3 hour flight to get the 100-hour done, that’s ok.

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SnooHesitations1718@reddit

You most likely have a warrant out for your arrest by the FBI now. If I were you I’d move to Uzbekistan and hide out in a small village for the rest of my life

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sketchyoporder@reddit

Your chief pilot is an anal retentive boot locking fool. I would be willing to bet the last .6 of my hundred hour that he went to a college with the I itials e and r. The fact that you realized a mistake was made and are willing to own it speaks to the fact of your character. Good on you.

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benziel_ace@reddit

If you think aviation's anal retentive boot licking fools only come from riddle, you're in for a surprise.

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sketchyoporder@reddit

You are absolutely right. It's just that Riddle seems to make a much higher percentage than any other environment.

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Germainshalhope@reddit

You were within the 10 hours of flying to a station to get it inspected.

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WingedGeek@reddit

Also, one thing no one catches, but it's a thing ... The 100 hours is for hours in service. Which the FAA defines as wheels up to wheels down. The tach number includes time taxiing and in run-up, etc., and will always be higher. Ditto Hobbs. Most operators will do the inspection, and schedule ADs, based on tach time, because it's easier to track and verify (there's a little counter *right there* on the dial, or whatever), but the regulation actually requires it to be done on flight time. So you're almost certainly 100% perfectly fine and violated no reg. http://flying-geek.blogspot.com/2020/06/time-hobbs-tach-flight.html

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ragedracer1977@reddit

This is why my Hobbs meter is connected to my squat switch. It doesn’t operate until the wheels are in the air and stops when they touch the ground

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SSMDive@reddit

That is some next level reg digging... Bravo.

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Murky-Resident-3082@reddit

Man if only there was a book that had the rules in it that would tell you exactly what to do in this exact situation, seams way out of reach for some here, reading tough

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wt1j@reddit

Was the 0.6 flown back to the FBO where the plane will receive its 100 hour? *"The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service."* [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-E/section-91.409](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-E/section-91.409)

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PriorDeparture3655@reddit

This is straight from FAR/AIM so you are good. “(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter or has received an inspection for the issuance of an airworthiness certificate in accordance with part 21 of this chapter. The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service.”

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Fly4Vino@reddit

.6 hours was time taxi back , cool down engine. or

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Fun-Rub9877@reddit

Stop broadcasting. Tell your chief pilot and maintenance. It ends there.

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LRJetCowboy@reddit

Unless you receive an LOI stop worrying about it. Do not write anything about what happened unless it’s part of a voluntary disclosure being made to the FAA. The less you say the better. The FAA is a joke. I failed an applicant for an ATP because he couldn’t speak English. Not like he had an accent, he couldn’t freakin speak English. He got someone to sign him off the next day and *bang* he got his ATP. I filed a complaint with the FAA, they ordered a 44709 which never was completed and this guy still has an FAA ATP in a foreign country 19 months later. Nothing to fear, they’re helpless unless they want to make an example of someone or some thing.

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snoopyscoob@reddit

Handcuffs and a lifetime of being stuck at the regionals

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buriedupsidedown@reddit

“Being stuck at the regionals” this gets annoying hearing and I’m not even “stuck” at one.

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snoopyscoob@reddit

cool

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AHappySnowman@reddit

He’ll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.

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fliesupsidedown@reddit

Only if his ego is writing cheques his body can't cash

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Swedzilla@reddit

I mentioned the last part for a friend of mine who wanted to be a Marine pilot real bad and and his reaction was “The marines has progressed further with mental health last 24hours than the FAA has last 24 years.” Not sure if it’s a laughing or crying matter 🥲

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aviatingnvestr@reddit

Canadian here, we log all maintenance related stuff by air time (wheels up to wheels down) and not tach or hobbs. I’ve also never seen a tach meter, only either Hobbs or none at all. Is it mandated to be by tach in the US?

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SSMDive@reddit

Jesus, your Chief CFI is wound tight. You can legally overfly a 100 hour inspection by TEN hours § 91.409 (b). "The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service." You thought the trip would be fine and you would be back, but runup took longer, winds were higher than expected, you got diverted by ATC...ETC. And you were taking the plane back to where the 100 hour would be done. So the next 100 hour will be due in 99.04 hours. Someone will claim you busted the 100 hours because you were teaching... Yeah by half an hour because of winds, delays, etc. It literally is a nothing burger. I'd file a NASA report but in no way would I call and tell the FAA. Your Chief CFI is wrong, IMO.

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grumpycfi@reddit

If your chief is actually telling you to self-report this non-event to the FAA and taking copies of things that's concerning AF. Because not only does it show a lack of technical knowledge but a punitive culture. I'd be really careful continuing to work there.

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Fun-Muscle-4167@reddit (OP)

I mentioned 91.409 and the 10-hour overflight rule which states that the 100hr can be extended by 10hrs to fly the airplane to a place where it can be preformed. Every student pilot knows that FAR. My chief told me it doesn't apply because of 141 stuff... Don't really know what he meant by that. He basically said that 141 considers my XC to be "one flight" not 2... therefore it's one big flight that overflew the 100hr and thus broke a FAR. I'm starting to feel a little validated now that people are saying I didn't really bust a FAR... I thought I knew the regs. He also said that 10 hours of overflight only applies to the pitot/static inspection? What? I have no idea what he was really saying by that.

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Donnie_Sharko@reddit

Your chief pilot is either pulling your leg or a nincompoop. I overflew a 100 hour by about 40 hours because our digital maintenance tracking system had the wrong tach time put in it. Oops. I NASAed it and moved on with my life. Do not under any circumstances give your certs or a written report to the FAA. In fact, I’d be hesitant to listen to your chief pilot on most things because he sounds like a doofus. You’re covered by the ten hour extension rule anyway.

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WinnieThePig@reddit

Your chief sounds like the a really fun guy to work with. He's not managing AF1, he needs to chill out. You didn't intend to fly past the 100 hr, therefore you are fine.

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coldnebo@reddit

I came here knowing that FAR, but was curious about the 141 stuff. Didn’t see any posts go into it. 🤷‍♂️

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SmithKenichi@reddit

Yeah man go in armed with knowledge. Here is a link to the legal interpretation that specifies intent to overfly the 100hr is what is not allowed. You didn't have the intent. Good luck dealing with your chain of command. They sound like delightful people. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Greenwood-Fly_By_Knight_2014_Legal_Interpretation.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjj3oev-MKCAxXvGzQIHaebAuIQFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3fZINTs-winflCctPavQeW

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Longjumping-Escape15@reddit

Does your 141 have a progressive inspection? Because that would be different than a 100hr but otherwise 141 has nothing to do with it if it’s a true 100 hr inspection

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ThatHellacopterGuy@reddit

“Pitot/static inspection” (assuming he meant the 91.411-91.413 check of the altimeters & altitude reporting system [411] and the transponder system[413]) is a calendar inspection, not an hourly inspection.

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grumpycfi@reddit

Tell them to cite a source. A good manager/leader/whatever uses stuff like this as an educational opportunity, not a way to come down on someone and flex their bullshit (especially when it's wrong). I'm not familiar with 141 specifically but I don't think they operate under separate MX regs. Even if they do, that still sounds like a bunch of bullshit and certainly the pitot-static isn't an hourly thing to begin with. I go back to my original sentiment. I'd consider getting out of that place as fast as possible.

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nolandscape193@reddit

What an asshole.

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the_devils_advocates@reddit

Yeah I laughed when I saw copies of his medical and certificate for the FAA How old is this “chief pilot” and what experience do they have?

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peepledeedle4120@reddit

I think the speech is just your chief teaching you a lesson. I understand your stress as a CFI, though. Have a beer (or do whatever you do to relieve stress) and go back to work. You'll be fine.

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sftwareguy@reddit

Have a beer, WAIT 8 HOURS, then go back to work.

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peepledeedle4120@reddit

Thank you for fixing that for me lmao

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rocketMX@reddit

I’m an A&P/IA. Overflying a 100, especially by .6 is no big deal. Get it in the shop and get it done. Happens all the time. Don’t sweat it. Tell your bosses to calm down.

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Elegant-Process-3063@reddit

Bro move on like this never happened. Ps, your "chief pilot" is an idiot. No one cares you overflew by an hour.

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subusta@reddit

The FAA has truly broken people’s brains

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vivalicious16@reddit

I’m at a 141 school and dispatch probably wouldn’t let us leave if our due back time means we overfly a 100hr. You’re fine though

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boxalarm234@reddit

I once flew threw a small puff cloud as a non IR PPL. Been looking over my shoulder ever since.

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TheLinuxMailman@reddit

the reason you can't see them coming after you is that the cloud is too dense.

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Mammoth_Benefit_4983@reddit

Let's be honest...so did I. The kind you can see through to the other side. It was kinda fun. Anyway, OP...wait what's that knock at the - hmmmmphgrglekskkkkkkkkkkkkkkhelllllp

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Pieodox@reddit

FARs says you can overfly 100hrs. From FAR, “The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service. “ (FAR, 91.409(b)),

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Action12Jackson@reddit

You didn’t do anything wrong - you’re the only or were the only one that knew you overflew it. But I don’t anticipate they’ll give you any issues

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theeyeholeman1@reddit

As everyone else has said- file a NASA and move on with your life. I honestly have no idea why or what kind of report your chief wants you to file with the FAA or why he/she wants copies of your certs. This is a perfect opportunity for you to learn the subtle art of telling someone to politely fuck off. The NASA report should be the ONLY report you file. The whole point of filing one is to say you accidentally screwed something up, end of story. This sounds like massive overkill. As far as putting this on an application- unless there's a question (there won't be) that specifically asks about the content of NASA reports you've filled out (or another question that this obviously fits within)- don't try to wedge this in anywhere. It WOULD make a great interview answer though for a "tell me about a time you broke a reg" question. I think I had 2x NASA reports when I applied to the regionals and 1/2 a dozen+ ASAP (airline version of NASA reports) when I applied to the Legacies and I've been at the Legacies a few years now. You'll be fine.

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Fisherman_30@reddit

It's not a big deal. Not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada, depending on the aircraft's inspection schedule, they would just subtract how much the plane over flew that inspection from the time required for the next inspection. So if you overflew your 100-hr by 0.5, then they would do the 100-hr inspection, and then have the next one due at 99.5.

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Jestia76@reddit

Sure does. It can fly up to 110 hours (which the extra 10 is only for the purpose of getting it to the home base/maintenance base), and the next inspection is 100 hours from when the 100 hour mark was hit so you lose whatever time you went over. So from a maintenance perspective, it would of been grounded after the landing (or been scheduled for a flight to maintenance if its not done at the same place) and the pilot would of done nothing wrong. I'm only a baby pilot though, so maybe my maintenance perspective is wrong from a pilots perspective. I also don't work at a flight school, so we would of been telling the pilots "hey you got this many hours left till it can't fly no more" each time that plane is flew, cause we also track the time till next inspection. No clue how flight schools manage that.

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asap-reed@reddit

Your chief is a moron, and I wouldn’t send anything to the FAA. There’s no need. 141 has nothing to do with it.

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PonyKing@reddit

Weren’t you just on your way back with your student to the airport where you get the annual?

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PM_ME_GOODDOGS@reddit

I always thought the plane just exploded when it crossed that threshold

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spm_outkast@reddit

Are you autistic

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Fun-Muscle-4167@reddit (OP)

Can't be in aviation if you aren't at least a little...

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imoverclocked@reddit

Make sure you file a NASA report about it in triplicate though.

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Fenderfreak145@reddit

Also make sure they stack AND mention trains somewhere!

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greevous00@reddit

Don't forget turtles. I like turtles.

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CappyJax@reddit

Not cool, dude.

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Limotinted@reddit

This is a troll post right? Right???

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ops_asi@reddit

Sigh… *checks jail occupancy*

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cherrymitten@reddit

Your chief is an idiot. Where is this taking place?

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Av8tr1@reddit

This! I’d tell that CP to go f himself. What a duchebag move and clearly does t understand the regs. But he’s gotta throw his weight around so he’s gonna try to F over some poor CFIs career. The good news is the FAA is going to completely ignore this.

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photobusta@reddit

I heard you where in your way to the mechanic

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hoskoau@reddit

Not a pilot but if the inspection is done on site wouldn't the last flight be "flying to a place where the inspection can be done"

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Traquer@reddit

>Yup, and if I read correctly it doesn't say how the flight in those 10 hours should or shouldn't be conducted

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pliiplii2@reddit

Yes

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PILOT9000@reddit

Federal SWAT team going to be kicking your door in while you’re asleep at 3AM and shooting your dog.

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extraeme@reddit

I mean something might happen if the chief were bad enough to make a report to the FAA that their POI might be obligated to act on. Really not a fan of that chief's actions.

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extraeme@reddit

This would not need to go on an application unless it shows up on your PRD as a violation (you'll need to wait a while and see if that is the case), but ultimately you would hear from someone if you got an actual violation. Reading the part where you chief wanted copies of your records and for you to make a speech sounds kinda excessive. It was an honest mistake you made a NASA report, now just move on.

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LostAd5570@reddit

It's been a bit since I have been around a flight school, but from my memory we ALWAYS taxied our planes down to the maintenance hanger for the 100 hour AFTER the 100 hour was reached. The ONLY time I saw an instructor get in trouble with "going over" the 100 hour was when the instructor tripped that 100hr on his fist flight in the AM, but because he had a full day and it was a rare good weather day.....he decided to take it down after his last flight of the day almost 9 hours over the 100hour. I think the only grief that the instructor received was from the chief pilot, nothing from the FAA.

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time_adc@reddit

91.409 b. "...The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours." They teach this is private pilot ground school.

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bobby_ice69@reddit

Don’t worry about it and don’t say anything to anyone. Flight school I used to instruct at would routinely use the 10 hour buffer to keep scheduling instructional flights. That was a clear violation and eventually it was rectified when I refused to do it. Long story short - nobody got in trouble at all, even for intentionally disregarding that reg. I’m now a captain at a legacy if that gives you any comfort.

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WinnieThePig@reddit

If I was your local FAA guy, I'd contact the chief and ask him why the heck he is wasting my valuable time with this nonsense.

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hellozim@reddit

You can over fly a 100hr by 10hrs. There is no need to alert the authorities or put it on your resume.

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UpperFerret@reddit

It’s fine. You were flying to a location for inspection. Now if it was overdue before you took off and the destination airport were the departure airport then you’d be in violation.

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OhSillyDays@reddit

Biggest reasons to not overfly a 100 is because it is illegal and unsafe. But more importantly, if you routinely do it, it'll show a patternof carelessness that could get you into serious trouble. Also, I'd hate to have an accident at 120 hrs since last inspection. Insurance wouldn't look kindly at that.

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giospez@reddit

>Insurance wouldn't look kindly at that I actually think insurance will look VERY happily at it because they will be able to deny any claims AND to raise your premiums. Win-win (for them).

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Glass-Key181@reddit

If I had a dollar for everytime this has occurred in any form of aviation- I'd be a rich man. 100% will happen again. As long as you're not doing like 150 a month ypu should be fine

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Far-Mountain-787@reddit

Schools most of the time are running there aircrafts on 10 hours extension.high utilization + a lot of aircraft with small maintenance teams makes that a regular occurrence.few thing thou,should have been caught by dispatch(if you guys have one) an on your end you should alway check the journey log(time till next inspection against last entry) first thing in the morning & every time you switch airplanes.especially when going on cross countries..you’ll be Alryt there are bigger fish to fry.

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Cmongooutside@reddit

If it’s getting the 100 hour done at your base airport you didn’t even violate a reg my guy

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Longjumping-Escape15@reddit

Ok so the real question is. Is it an actual 100 hour or do you have a progressive inspection as many 141 flight schools do. Otherwise being 141 has nothing to do with maintenance schedules..

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MemeEndevour@reddit

To put kindly, sounds like your bosses/company run a very tight ship. They’re most likely using you as an example and excuse to break out all the protocols. Personally, I’d say they’re making you worry about this a lot more than you need to.

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LightMoisture@reddit

File the NASA. Do not provide a written report or anything else personally to the FAA. Let the school do what they want but I would 100% not be providing the FAA with any ammo. Do not do anything unless approached by the FAA over this. Then get an aviation lawyer.

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TheGreenicus@reddit

“OK, fly us home. This is now a rental flight, not instruction.”

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Blackhawk004@reddit

You can overfly by 10 hrs, next 100 hr due in 90 hrs. You cannot overfly AD inspections though.

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ApatheticSkyentist@reddit

You need to relax. Sure you should have been more aware but this is a giant nothing burger and it should remain that way. I would not be sending a letter to anyone at the FAA. Absolutely no on that one.

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DrRob@reddit

In Canada they make us maintain an aircraft journey log which has time to inspection as one of the entries. No guesswork at all. You know to the nearest tenth when the next inspection is due, and if the place is too close for the planned mission, you rent another one. Even with that, there are allowances for flying beyond the limits. If your boss is coming down on you like this, I have to think you belong to the most event-free school on the continent.

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sf340b@reddit

First you intentionally did not validate the aircraft hours and inspection times due... then you intentionally fly continued VFR in IFR conditions... then you intentionally fly IFR altitudes without the proper visual references to continue... then you see how it all started buy not taking this $h!t seriously and continuing....

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BSwiftRatty@reddit

You’re good boss, I know a flight school that didn’t do any 100 hour inspections ever.

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Healthy-Banana5638@reddit

Hey there . Legacy pilot , CFI /double I all that jazz that. Your chief pilot is kind of a dweeb for making you do all that over 36 minutes of Hobbs time . Tell your chief to pound sand and maybe go build time at a flight school with sane leadership. Don't submit anything. If you feel compelled to do a nasa report, fine . He's throwing you under the bus, by the way . Yeah you're pic , but the school itself should really have a better mx tracking program as well. I highly doubt the FAA gives a shit about 36 minutes , thus no need to submit it on an app. Sure , use it as a tmaat question , or whatever but don't go checking that box unless you get a letter from the FAA saying you actually have a violation . But going forward my friend , don't sweat the small shit . You're going to make bigger mistakes in your career. Big picture : try to operate legally to the best of YOUR ability , keep yourself safe, and go home . Jesus . I'd love to know your Chief's name (please don't tell me here as it may be against the rules) cause this guy does not belong anywhere near 121 ops if that's his aspiration.... We try to make it a point not to throw our people under the bus in this realm.

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what_it_dude@reddit

Quit now and just get your CDL instead.

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No-Brilliant9659@reddit

You flew a XC, so you landed at an airport that wasn’t your home airport. You flew back to your home airport which is where you get your MX done, on the way back you went over the 100hr. Totally legal if anyone even decides to care about this.

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TheArtisticPC@reddit

The [2014 Greenwood Legal Interpretation](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Greenwood-Fly_By_Knight_2014_Legal_Interpretation.pdf) states otherwise.

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tkinz92@reddit

You're way over thinking this. I can't imagine this turns into anything other than a conversation.

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jacobnw17@reddit

If you get violated for flying .6 over, then we’re all screwed. Unless it’s changed since I last flew pistons, I think there’s a caveat that will let you overfly the 100hr, as long as you’re going to a “MX base” and the plane is grounded once landing until the inspection is performed and signed off. The overage(.6) just comes out of the new 100hr time, so now you’d have 99.4hrs until the next 100hr. The school shouldn’t have checked the plane out to you knowing you’re doing an XC and the plane was close to time limits. That’s on them. It is a good teaching moment, and having to do a presentation is a good way for other instructors and students to learn from your mistake. As far as disclosing on apps, I don’t think airlines would care. You may want to check though. It’s definitely a good talking point to bring up in the interview. You did the right steps in disclosing, but I doubt you’re ever going to hear anything back about it.

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TheArtisticPC@reddit

You are thinking of [FAR § 91.409(b)](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/part-91/section-91.409#p-91.409(b)), which partly states the following: >The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The [2014 Greenwood Legal Interpretation](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Greenwood-Fly_By_Knight_2014_Legal_Interpretation.pdf) talks about OP's scenario explicitly in the following: >Fly By Knight, Inc. uses an aircraft for both flight instruction and rental. The aircraft has accumulated 99.8 hours of time in service since the last inspection. The aircraft is dispatched on a local training flight with a Fly By Knight, Inc. instructor and a student pilot, and the flight lasts 1.5 hours. Fly By Knight, Inc. performs a 100-hr/annual inspection upon the aircraft's return. > >The fact pattern in scenario 2 represents a violation of § 91.409(b) because the flight instructor and the student pilot intend to overfly the 100-hour limitation during a local training flight. The aircraft is being operated to provide flight instruction for hire. As a result, the aircraft must have received an annual or 100-hour maintenance inspection within the preceding 100 hours of time in service. The next annual or 100-hour maintenance inspection is due in 0.2 hours, and the local training flight is expected to take 1.5 hours. Section 91.409(b) states that "\[t\]he 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done." This 10-hour grace period applies only to situations where the aircraft must be flown en route to reach a place where the inspection can be performed. OP violated the FARs and their school's P&Ps, but this is still far from a big deal. I doubt the FAA has the time or funding to care about a stressed-out CFI overflying a 100-hour by 36 minutes. Also, a note to u/Fun-Muscle-4167. Please do not torpedo your career over this. Report it on an application *only* if the FAA opens an investigation. I don't know a single CFI who has not overflown a 100-hour; the airlines don't care and don't want to hear it.

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Rcktr88@reddit

Take your certificate.....and BURN IT! I'm kidding lmao

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SmithKenichi@reddit

Wow your chief pilot is a dick for wanting you to turn yourself in to the FAA. The regs stipulate you can't launch your passenger carrying or flight training operation with the INTENT to overfly the 100hr. Intent crimes are difficult to prove in a court of law. "Oops, it took .6 longer to finish the flight than we planned" Boom, no intent to overfly.

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Shot_Appointment_544@reddit

Your candor will likely result in no action.

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Funkshow@reddit

This is a bullshit post that everyone is taking seriously. GTFO with “I’m going to put this on just about every job application”. That’s a dead giveaway that this is some good trolling.

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Capt-Soliman@reddit

If there’s a mechanic at the field you landed at, then you overflew the 100 hour in order to take it to a place to get the 100 hour fine. Nothing illegal about that.

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notbernie2020@reddit

Nah you good dog, file a NASA report and continue with your life.

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BobFlairDrip@reddit

No regional is going to hire you with that on your record now bud

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proudlyhumble@reddit

Mesa might, he’s still got a chance

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gabekral@reddit

It’s gonna be jail time for you my friend. Don’t drop the soap. Keep an eye on your phone for a call from Biden himself regarding the crime you commited.

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Shinsf@reddit

Right to jail

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MartonianJ@reddit

Believe it or not

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csl512@reddit

No trial, nothing

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ne0tas@reddit

Your school sounds like a pain. It actually sounds like the university school that is our competitor that is super strict on even 50 hour inspections. I'm so sorry you have to deal with that.

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VileInventor@reddit

You’re allowed to overfly it if you’re bringing it to a mechanic :)

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DescriptionSudden935@reddit

The most trouble you’ll get in is with your employer. FAA won’t be involved. Just take responsibility & apologize and if they are reasonable, they’ll leave it alone with a warning.

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breakingthejewels@reddit

I'm going to write a strongly worded letter to my congressman and you'll be hearing from my legal team

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cbrookman@reddit

You’ll be fired. Out of a cannon into the sun.

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Fr3nch_Toa5t_@reddit

Real talk, if your 141 school has a safety program or an ASAP program file a report, and then file a NASA report. You’ll never hear anything else about it unless your boss is a dick

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oneothergamer@reddit

Absolutely do not put this on a resume

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UNDR08@reddit

Sounds like a major over reaction. Just file the nasa report and move on.

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axnjackson11@reddit

Do not send info to the FAA.

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oldbutambulatorty@reddit

Before lighting your hair on fire, review the CFR. You will learn that there was no violation of the rule- https://shackelford.law/news-aviation/when-is-the-100-hour-inspection-due-for-aircraft-used-for-rental-and-flight-instruction/#:~:text=Section%2091.409(b)%20states%20that,an%20annual%20or%20100%2Dhour

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kytulu@reddit

From CFR 91.409: Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter or has received an inspection for the issuance of an airworthiness certificate in accordance with part 21 of this chapter. The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service. Technically, you could argue that, being that you took off before the 100hr was due, and landed at your base of operations where the 100hr could be done, well within the 10 hours' overage that is allowed for transport to a place where the 100 hour can be done, no real harm was done, *unless* you overflew an AD. If you overflew an AD, that's a whole different story. The FSDO *may* call you. It is highly likely that nothing will happen other than you giving the briefing at the next CFI meeting and whatever else the chief pilot comes up with. This also should have been caught by whomever handles Dispatch at your flight school. I'm assuming that your XC was +-3 hours. At my school, any plane that was that close to a 100hr would either be assigned to a student/CFI that was doing an hour block to burn off a little bit of the remaining time, or it would already be in the hands of the Maintenance staff to start the inspection.

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Boilerbunch@reddit

That's a paddlin'

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ShitBoxPilot@reddit

Officers, arrest this man!!!

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thelauryngotham@reddit

Aaaaaand that's how they ended up with all the FSDO staff

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sauceboymedicine@reddit

If the FAA cared they would be at our flight school once a month. Also- Our setup on flight schedule pro has the hours till maintenance required when you reserve the plane.

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FlyingDiver58@reddit

No. Just no. Forget that plan immediately. Why would you self-report on something that truly doesn’t matter. Your chief is an idiot.

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1039198468@reddit

So the 100 hr expired during the trip? The airplane should not have been dispatched but take the time off the next inspection interval.

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Twarrior913@reddit

First off, slow it down man. You haven’t been violated with anything yet, don’t go advertising this to everyone until something does officially happen, which you’ll know about. I overflew a 100hr once (fucked up the math when checking mx times), overflew by around 1.0 or so. Totally my fault. If your school is on the up-and-up they’ll usually self report it to the FAA (better than the FAA finding it during an audit), and usually that’s where it ends, especially if you also show up with a compliance driven attitude and report. ASIs are notoriously understaffed and usually are happy to drop it then and there. Not saying that it makes it OK in any way, but the amount of overflown 100hrs by flight schools are probably pretty high. Lastly, if you look at 91.409, it specifies 100 hours of “time-in-service,” which (and I don’t have the LOI to back it up, but can possibly find if someone else can’t) is interpreted to be wheels-up to wheels-down time. I actually didn’t “bust” the regulation (and you might not have), because we are usually good for at least 0.2 or so of tach time each flight running checklists, waiting for traffic, taxiing, etc. After running through all of the available ADS-B information we determined that although we did go over our tach-based inspection for the 100hr, we actually had about 2.0ish of “flight time,” remaining before the plane was flown over 100 hours of in-service time. Definitely broke an internal policy (not to mention our 141 approved maintenance policy), but likely didn’t break the regulation. Formatted it in a nice excel sheet, explained it to our POI and they were fine with it.

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Anthem00@reddit

i believe you can overfly up to 10% of the time - but it should be to fly it to the inspection station to do its 100 hour. If the plane is being maintained there, then this kind of qualifies. But the next 100 hour is 100 - whatever you went over with this time (0.6)

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