Has anyone moved back to New Zealand after living in Europe?
Posted by smallfrys92@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 83 comments
I'm a 31y/o Kiwi currently living in The Netherlands and have been here for almost 7 years. Recently my boyfriend and I spent 2.5 weeks in New Zealand visiting my family, friend's and of course did a lot of sightseeing.
During this visit, I realized how beautiful NZ is, how much I miss my family/friend's, the food and also the culture. Since returning to The Netherlands, I have really felt that it may be time for me to move back home. I would be starting all over again of course - A lot of my savings already went into our recent trip.
Has anyone moved back after living in Europe and if so, how is it going? I really enjoy my job which is online for a software company and worry that my options in NZ will be limited. My main reason for moving back is I miss my family/friends but a good job is of course important.
Thank you in advance for any advice you have to share
Sad_Comedian7347@reddit
jeez, europe is one thing, and there are plenty of amazingly beautiful places, but the netherlands? from NZ? NL must be one of the most dull, boring soulless places coming from NZ.
simple_explorer1@reddit
I would say NL is one of the best places in EU for expats/immigrants due to how international it is, how easy it is to live in NL with just english, world class public infrastructure, Amsterdam blows ANY city in NZ out of the water (NZ just cannot compare).
For Nature, switzerland, norway, finland, sweden, bavaria etc. are just 1 hr flight away or few countries are just few hours drive away (switzerland, germany etc) and you have your pick of the nature as well.
Honestly, NZ is extremely dull and boring compared to NL which is almost always fun and vibrant anywhere you go. Quality of housing and life is extremely high compared to NZ and salaries are also much higher in NL vs NZ.
NL is more liberal than NZ and has SIGNIFICANTLY better nightlife compared to anywhere in NZ. Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The hague etc. are just miles ahead of any NZ city. QOL, public infrastructure etc. are just unparalleled in NL compared to anywhere in NZ. NZ is significantly poor in culture and entertainment compared to NL.
NL social services, job benefits, medical facilities, employee protection etc. are all much better than NZ.
I honestly think you have NO IDEA what you are talking about and possibly have never ever been to NL.
Shot-Table9345@reddit
I'm dutch, and what you are describing is an extremely skewed/biased view of the nation.
Sad_Comedian7347@reddit
I am dutch….have you been to NL because what you’re describing is very much the netherlands through rose tinted glasses. But hey, one day you will realise it for yourself.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Lived in both NL and NZ. Your experience in NZ also depends on whether you are white or not. I think the Dutch are less prejudiced against POC whereas the kiwis are outwardly friendly but have a LOT of prejudices against poc.
Getting jobs, housing, respect and friends all are significantly more challenging if you are a poc in NZ vs NL. Seen with my own eyes
Sad_Comedian7347@reddit
If you say so. For reference, as I mentioned, I am dutch, but have also lived in Auckland and later Christchurch for around 16 years in total. I really think you are trying very very hard to see something in the netherlands, thats simply not there. But hey, enjoy your life where you think its the best for you. If you think the dutch are not racist, you’re in for a big surprise.
simple_explorer1@reddit
If you are white dutch, then you will be successful almost anywhere in the west.
So you are claiming your experiences are valid and NOT mine? I HAVE LIVED IN BOTH NZ and NL. If my experiences align well with NL then why are you trying to say "I am looking at NL with rose tinted glasses"? I can say the same to you about NZ, but hey, enjoy your life where you think is best for you.
Kiwis are more outwardly polite and easy going BUT will NEVER say what they really mean, are not sincere, very flaky with their intentions, befriending them is extremely difficult and most don't even like asians/POC immigrants. I have heard it and seen it time and time again. There is a huge anti asian bias in NZ and asians (especially asian men) are heavily looked down on in all realms of life. My asian friends rarely got promoted as managers/cto's etc. in a traditional kiwi companies and even in international companies. Asians have near no representation in politics inspite of making 15% of entire NZ population. No asian representation in media as well.
Most of my male asian friends struggled with dating in NZ and kiwi women on Tinder CONSTANTLY write "No asian/indians" on their dating profiles even though they can chose not to swipe right on someone they don't like. They really FEEL THE NEED to write "no asians/indians etc." on a swipe based app. As a proof see this very thread on reddit New-Zealand confirming my point https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/omgxph/no_blacks_no_asians_no_indians_sexual_racism_on/
You almost never see this level of disdain against asians in NL.
Dutch are totally opposite of kiwis in that, Dutch are very direct and blunt and befriending Dutch is also very difficult, so they may appear more uptight and rude on the surface compared to kiwis. BUT, the Dutch do say what they MEAN. I have always found the dutch very sincere, mean what they say, you can count on them and they are not flaky and are just more reliable.
You REALLY DON'T KNOW the struggles from a POC asian men's perspective in NZ (and also in Australia). 15% of entire NZ population is asians yet they are virtually invisible anywhere from politics, media, management, sports to everything in between.
Also, Netherlands is HIGHLY DEVELOPED compared to NZ where the trains/buses barely work let alone anything else. Salaries are much higher in NL compared to NZ (my personal experience). Tax is higher in NL compared to NZ but you do get a LOT of benefits for it ex. 25 days vacation (vs 20 in NZ), great unemployment benefits, sick benefits, much higher job density/options, world class companies (vs NZ which is a dead end for professionals hence the one way exit to Australia). NZ barely have any city and Dutch cities are world class infrastructure in comparison to NZ. All these are purely facts (which you can easily verify) so I am surprised you are literally denying facts
I get it, you hate NL and that's is okay, in that case a more honest comment should be "I don't like living in the netherlands for personal reasons BUT netherlands is highly developed and has much better salaries/job opportunities/social services/infrastructure/travel opportunities vs NZ". What you are now doing is refuting facts which is basically being intentionally delusional due to internal hatred towards NL.
Honestly, as you are white Dutch, you will not understand the extent of covert racism in NZ. An asian sounding name has 60% less chance of even getting an interview call, people are not interested in being friends with asians, its disheartning to see kiwis being friendly with white/maori people in office but with asians they maintain a formal communication etc. the list is big.
Honestly, the Dutch really are not as prejudiced against asians and I personally have progressed a lot in NL compared to NZ in all realms of life. The Dutch have my respect for treating people like me fairly and I regret that I spent my time looking for "acceptance" and "fair" treatment NZ.
Soms-woedend@reddit
You sound like you are a NZ asian in NL? I havent lived in NZ for many years, but there is A LOT of racism in NL. Just look at how big the racist political parties are in NL. In terms of your NZ experience, just replace asian with african/arab/turkish and then you have the marginalised groups in NL (asians closer to NZ so more of them, africans closer to NL and historical migrant worker policies in NL).
simple_explorer1@reddit
I want to write facts based on my personal experience and this has not been my experience at all. I literally have a bunch of Dutch friends (I never had any kiwi friends because they simply were not interested in befriending me but they were totally okay befriending white people from EU/Canada etc. right in front of us).
I agree that the current atmosphere in NL (and most of Europe) is negative towards middle easterns and arabs but not against africans. Infact, due to close ties to Suriname, black people have a much higher respect and much wider acceptance in all realms of life.
Living where one is respected is basic necessity and I simply still love the NL for being the most accepting society for me and MANY foreigners I personally know from all walks of life.
Soms-woedend@reddit
The first thing a dutch immigration officer said to my (white) wife on entering the netherlands “make sure you register otherwise we will throw you in with the somalis”
Maybe go read up about the history around the bijlmer area of amsterdam.
These are experiences/anecdotes and it is great you feel better here, doesn’t make them universal facts for the country.
At school in NZ I had lots of indian/chinese/korean friends but I haven’t lived there for a long time, but I will concede from a distance that tolerance of those communities seems to be changing.
When I left NZ, white/europeans only made up ~55% of the population, (and I imagine its less now). so such a blanket statement about POC just can’t really hold water.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Also, name one city in NZ which is as exciting as Amsterdam and has the infrastructure of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht etc? The Dutch really pioneer the urban design. Remember even new York was designed by the Dutch and it still remains the most pedestrian friendly city in whole of US.
NZ sucks with infrastructure, is car dependent, cities are barely towns with nothing to do and housing is much much lower quality with no central heating/double glazing.
Just tell me what statement is incorrect? Just tell which city in nz can match ANY dutch city for its infrastructure and things to do?
Sad_Comedian7347@reddit
You’re joking right? Amsterdam is a tourist hell hole. And listing Rotterdam?? haha ok. Utrecht however have a nice vibe. That said, I prefer Auckland. However, its the smaller kiwi towns that for me at least give a better quality of life. Nature, mountains and the sun is important to me.
simple_explorer1@reddit
You do understand that tourist don't spend money going in "hell hole". There is a reason places like London, NYC, Sydney, Melbourne, Amsterdam, Switzerland etc. get people from all over the world. Because they are desirable and there is something nice.
Queenstown in NZ is the same.
Also, how is Amsterdam attracting tourist make it "hell hole"? It has much better vibe than shithole auckland which barely even has a functioning public transport, it is rundown city even in the city center, there are much more homeless/junkies in auckland center VS anywhere in netherlands. Beyond amsterdam city center, rest of the areas "ex. amstelveen" are really nice and very nicely maintained with barely any crime.
Netherlands does not have legal gangs like NZ, no ram raids, no meth addicts and junkies harassing people in the city center etc. The dutch also don't do overdrinking like NZ where it is rampant with lot of drugs.
I will 10000% say that Dutch cities have amazing infrastructure, best in class public transport (even in 3rd or 4th tier cities) and honestly nowhere in NZ cannot even compete with the public transport of even "leiden", let alone "amsterdam", "rotterdam" etc.
NZ is also a much poorer country compared to NL which is super wealthy and it shows.
Auckland is a shit hole, even kiwis say that. Its okay to have preference but not okay to be delusional and lying that Auckland is better than Amsterdam/Rotterdam etc. Auckland (and NZ cities) are nowhere near the urban planning/development of Dutch cities and that is a fact, comeon this is not even up for debate. Your bias is really insane and you know it.
Rotterdam is arguably a nice city (like most dutch cities) and is completely rebuilt after WW2. So modern and posh. Not prefering a place is okay but refuting facts is nuts.
that's a personal preference but, as i said, with Dutch cities you get baseline infrastructure which is in general always good and you will not need a car anywhere, unlike all of NZ which is barely functioning without a car.
You mean dead and devoid of any life? Nothing happening and all you see is cars? Even to buy a grocery you need to drive...lol... hell naa
And that is fine to have as a preference, hence it is the only point I agree with you. BUT, to claim that NZ cities are better than Dutch cities is just absurd and laughable.
You don't like to live in NL as you like to live in nature is all fine, but that's not what the conversation was about. Next time try to be more objective, factual and upfront with conversation instead of "mistaking" preference to "hey this is a better city" without any factual data. Just say "x is better than y in general for infrastructure but I still prefer to be in y".
Sad_Comedian7347@reddit
why do you feel the need to defend the netherlands this strongly? Especially as a immigrant? Worried you made the wrong choice?
simple_explorer1@reddit
Holy crap, after all the back and forth, this is what your are resorting to? Jesus christ, I knew it would be a waste of time given that you were talking through your feelings instead of facts, but this is next level delusion.
Remember, 15% of entire nz population (700k kiwis) permanently lived in Australia for a reason and thousands and thousands of kiwis also live in UK and Canada well. Approx. 20% of entire nz population don't even prefer to live in NZ for a reason. The Dutch barely emigrate and are happy in NL despite having much higher freedom of movement that comes with EU passport. All these are FACTS and not LOVE or defend.
You haven't even shared a single factual reason why nz is actually better than NL. All you did is straw man's and "why do you defend NL so much" was your best argument.
I have a high regard for the Dutch for not bullshiting and being direct and sincere but you sir, have spoiled that image that some Dutch can also be stupid and delusional BUT I think that is because of the effects kiwi culture had on you. You argued in bad faith, had no facts, were not honest and are ironically doing the exact thing you are accusing me of (you ARE defending nz endlessly and I am sharing facts which can be verified) but you see delusional to not see it for yourself.
So question to you, why do you feel the need to defend New Zealand this strongly? Especially as a immigrant? Worried you made the wrong choice?
Mission_Homework87@reddit
Genuine question - have you ever considered this from another perspective? That Kiwis might be adventurous and outgoing and open to new experiences. Whereas the Dutch are somewhat less?
Another genuine question - do you actually catch the trains? The NS has a shocking record when it comes cancellations, faults and works. That's fact. I'm not disagreeing about Auckland/NZ though, our public transport options are a joke. But just being objective here/fair about the NL too.
You're right about the gang and homeless situation in NZ, it's really sad.
But I do think your experiences have given you some quite strong feelings that might not be reflective of NZ, and that you've been lucky to not see some of the negative sides of NL too. Even I have seen and heard some horrific racism here, yet I have never seen or known any girls to write on their online dating profiles about excluding specific races. I'm not saying it didn't happen to you, and I'm sorry that you had to experience that, but there are many beautiful things about NZ so try to remember those too maybe.
I'm glad you're on a better salary here - mine is not worth it. I'm glad you've experienced good healthcare here - I'm on a 65 week waitlist even though I pay for decent insurance each month. THis isn't comparison, it's just a way of showing that everyone has different experiences. I still think that Amsterdam is the most beautiful city in the world and I love almost everything about here (definitely not the days of grey), but nothing is quite like home and the pull to return is strong every day for me. What a privilege that we have been able to live in both countries!
Any-Addition-281@reddit
Actually i felt the complete opposite. Nearly every second Dutch i meet seems to have traveled very far from caribbean, canada, Australia, Thailand, Bali to everything in between. But they still think Netherlands has a very high standard of living so most of them come back.
Infact i have meet a lot of kiwis who have never traveled outside nz and the once who did, did travel during their OE and oncec they hit 25 or so years old. Kiwis who never traveled also seem to think that nz is the best country in the world when a quarter of nz population run away to Australia.
I would say, i have met more dutch people critical of the Netherlands than kiwis (kiwis are tooooo sensitive to the criticisms of nz, that's another problem).
So, no, i have not found the Dutch to be any less adventurous than kiwis.
I don't own a car (because i don't need one). Trains and busses and trams and my cycke are all I use. Milesss better infrastructure than nz. One of the best infrastructure of the world. When you are not sitting in a traffic jam in a car for hours improves your quality of life significantly. Its a very healthy life in Netherlands (and europe in general).
That's not true. I have experienced nz and wanted it to be nice, but i have seen enough and talked to enough foreigners in nz to know myself.
Nope, not delusional. I know that healthcare (especially preventative), is pretty bad in Netherlands (paracetamol culture), people are more individualistic, making friends is hard (its hard even in nz inspite of superficially friendly kiwis) and weather is not great especially in winter.
Just because you don't know this does not mean its not a big problem. There was a MASSIVE news on nz new paper and discussions all over reddit New Zealand here https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/omgxph/no_blacks_no_asians_no_indians_sexual_racism_on/?rdt=34184
That's true for every country. But overall NZ has VERY very FEW job opportunities, much lower salaries (lowest in the western world), nepotistic job market, lonely and massive tall poppy syndrome. It ruins the good parts of nz. Ofcourse nz nature is beautiful (Netherlands cannot compare) and the weather is better (but causes skin cancer). Also, nz is even more laid back than Netherlands (actually that's a bad thing because nothing gets done in new zealand. Infact i find Netherlands is also too laidback in a way. Too much of anything is not good. It needs a right balance).
Most people who leave nz are on better salary. Salaries and availability of jobs are higher elsewhere in the developed world (especially anglo world and western europe). This is a fact.
You maybe a exception then.
Amsterdam is ONE OF THE best cities in the entire world. There is just so much entertainment and magical atmosphere. Its a Disneyland city.
But my time in nz was riddled with boredom, nothing to do except nature, racism (passive), loneliness, dull and soulless suburbia (Amsterdam suburbs are 1000% healthy and better), jobs difficulties, poor wages (even as a senior developer it was just 150k nzd, in Netherlandsit is 190k nzd and the ceiling is much higher), poor housing with mold, passive aggressive kiwis (who clearly didn't like poc in their country, fair enough, i left), dating difficulties (so many online profiles say no poc, only white/black etc, fair enough, but on a swipe based apps, there is no need to write it. Just makes people less of a human being once they read that "people with non white and non black skin color" no need to bother. Who writes like that) and just hopelessness.
Netherlands is the complete opposite of everything i have experienced in new zealand. There is just so much positivity and although people are more rigid/blunt/direct, they are also more sincere, honest and open.
SO MANY JOBS, variety of salaries, higher taxes but at the same time better social services compared to nz.
I have seen MANY poc's in new zealand who are completely broken and rejected by the society due to all of the above and they emigrate to Australia to see if its any better there. I cane to Netherlands instead and one thing is for sure, i would never come back to nz (may go to other places instead if necessary but never to nz. Nz is good if one of white but even then Australia is the right choice).
Conscious_Pin_3969@reddit
This is so true
DRK-SHDW@reddit
Going from NZ to NL was a massive eye opener for me. NZ is very car centric, NL is a wonder of urban design, walkability, public transport and active transport. It creates a vibrancy that NZ cannot match (despite being grey and gloomy as hell lol)
Ok_Ambassador9091@reddit
NZ has its share of dull, and soulless. Culturally, also somewhat very boring. Nature-wise tho: gorgeous.
ruediger4000@reddit
I lived in NZ one year when I was 16 and even as a 16 year old, I thought the culture is quite rich looking at Māori and other Pacific Islanders. Nowadays, I think I could appreciate it even more.
Ok_Ambassador9091@reddit
I'm referring to culture as diverse art, music, literature, dynamic and interactive social culture, as an adult who has lived around the world and is focused on those fields.
Maori culture is interesting, that's not what I was referring to.
I can't speak to teenage preferences.
bergler82@reddit
honest question, why did you leave NZ ? I‘m considering leaving europe to go to NZ and just get away from it all
smallfrys92@reddit (OP)
I left just after I turned 21 because I wanted to see more of the world and my first move was to Australia since I heard the money was better there. I did struggle quite a bit financially in NZ before I moved but that had a lot to do with my immaturity toward money. Now that I have no debt (my student loan paid off too) , I feel I would do better with building myself up again.
I struggle with the Dutch language, directness and most importantly miss my family and friends. I feel sad thinking about having kids here as it would mean they have a very limited relationship with my family and culture.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Most people in NL speak good english (unlike france/germany) so even if you know Dutch, they reply to you in english so a bit surprised why you even need Dutch?
The Dutch are direct but in my experience, they are a LOT more honest and sincere friends than Kiwis in general. Kiwis talk a lot behind your back, are very hard to befriend, they are outwardly nice but you will NEVER know what they really think about you vs Dutch where you actually know whether they like you or not, Dutch are more down to earth and more open minded than kiwis in general etc.
I agree that kiwis are more outwardly polite/easy going/friendly, which gives an illusion that "they are so easy to befriend and good to be around" etc. but after dealing with a LOT of kiwis and Dutch, the Dutch friends still keep in touch with me and don't play any games vs kiwis who, inspite of having friendly banter and giving an impression that they also like you, rarely reciprocate and the relationships just never moves on.
Also remember, the Dutch are decent people and, eventhough they are not outwardly friendly, they certainly are NOT rude unlike germans/french.
The thing about NZ is that, because of its anglo/british roots, their outward friendliness gives a wrong sense of impression of the place that "people are lovely" but, if people in NZ were actually so nice to the core then NZ wouldn't have "tall poppy syndrome", "wire 10 mentality", "passive aggressiveness", "workplace bullying", "nepotism" etc. but they are all BIGGG problems in NZ while they are NOT in netherlands.
Please don't fall for the nice on the outside but cold from the inside vs cold on the outside vs nice/sincere on the inside. I would trust what a Dutch says to me vs what a kiwi say to me 10/10 times. Dutch people are just more honest and sincere.
Also, remember, you don't even speak Dutch. You will be completely ostracized in NZ if you don't speak english. So, in a way you are connecting with Dutch people in english which is their second language. If you speak Dutch, that will make a lot of difference.
Shot-Table9345@reddit
You need dutch because you live in our country.
Itaaraq@reddit
What did you end up doing, out of curiosity?
not_nicola_1990@reddit
I see you posted this a while ago, so can I ask what you ended up doing and how you're currently feeling about his decision? I'm in the exact same position as you right now - I could have written this post word-for-word myself.
Scary_Instruction_63@reddit
Some things I feel like I miss and some I don't.
Since I'm almost in my mid 30s most of my friends have family so it's hard to make time with anyone. But always good to see family they are most important.
While NZ are good people sometimes after being overseas it's a struggle to get back into NZ's social culture especially the small town syndrome. NZ people rather stick to their own than mix with other ethnic groups.
While a high quality of life in NZ such as good quality food,most scenic things 30mins-2 hours away,good for families some of us miss the variety the feels of different culture and architecture. Which I feel the perspective of life in NZ is highly dependent on the weather.
Well as a high cost of living and isolation(which is a double edged sword).
So there's good and bad no matter where you come from.
samuraijon@reddit
I'm an australian living in the netherlands, 5 years now. 33 y/o. I'm on my own. I've posted my story recently in another thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/17kxdaj/comment/k7aw3n2/?context=3
basically, I didn't realise how much I missed Australia until I went back in October last year for the first time since I got here. due to the lockdown I wasn't able to go back, so I ended up travelling all over Europe, which was fun, of course. i felt everything was in a time capsule when i got back, my flat, belongings, apartment etc.
now I'm not so sure what to do. i could pack up and leave if i wanted, but realistically I've built up my life so much - both tangible (stuff, my car, bikes) and intangible stuff (friends, career, language - i now speak dutch etc.) it would take quite some effort to actually leave.
if i were you, i would look at the possibility to remote work. you could then split between NL and NZ 6 months of the year (i'd do summer), and you'll have the best of both worlds. it's a long way to travel but it's doable if it's just 6 months. i think I'm working towards that goal slowly, but let's see how it turns out. in the meantime i'd like to go back to Australia as often as i can, but work realistically only allows about a month a year to do so.
good luck with your future endeavours. i assume you now hold both passports so that wouldn't be an issue for work purposes. let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know e.g. how i ended up here, happy to share my experiences.
farkoooooff@reddit
Hey, out of interest did you manage to work out the 6 months remote work situation? I’d be really keen to do this but not sure how the visa situation would work. HSM visa in NL and then find an employer that allows remote work in back home? Employers that could do both are pretty few and far between. Keen to hear!
samuraijon@reddit
Hello, first of all I should say that you need permanent residency or citizenship for this to work. If you’re on HSM there is a minimum stay requirement. Even PR has this requirement but it’s looser.
Secondly you need a remote job. I haven’t found an employer that offers full remote work yet. As you mentioned this is hard.
For me that’s my long term goal. Still working on it.
Also no wife no kids, so basically even if this all works out I’m just kicking the can down the road and would have to decide eventually…
farkoooooff@reddit
Right, so you’d get NL citizenship then hope to find a very flexible employer since you’d have lost the AU citizenship, which complicates tax..
Difficult, but would love to make it happen somehow
samuraijon@reddit
Or you get PR and keep the Oz citizenship. The eu long stay requires you to be in NL a few days every year which is very doable, or every six years if you are somewhere in the EU/EEA/EFTA.
Not a tax expert so I can’t comment on that… but I imagine it’d be a bit complicated.
farkoooooff@reddit
I thought NL didn’t allow dual, at least for NZ
samuraijon@reddit
NL doesn’t indeed. So if you want to keep your Oz citizenship you get the PR instead.
ITVolleybeachbum@reddit
Get the citizenship before moving back. You will have options if needed later on
hellovatten@reddit
Dutch citizenship doesn't allow dual passports so OP would have to renounce the NZ citizenship.
Hungry-Bit-615@reddit
It's possible to get dual NL/NZ passports if you are married.
cataids69@reddit
I'm Australian. Worked in Germany for 8 years and now decided it's time to come home. 7 years ago the job market was better in eu. But, now I've been seeing Sydney jobs for 50% more income.
I think we all get home sick eventually. Sometimes it passes, sometimes it stays.
Gabrielle5237@reddit
I wish that tooo
sv723@reddit
Not a Kiwi. But someone who moved back home once.
Visiting your home country after a long time away is making you see it with rose tinted glasses. Visiting is not the same as living there. I lasted 1.5 years in my home country and then moved away again.
Think about it carefully, try to assess what you’ll lose in NL vs what you’ll gain in NZ.
Gabrielle5237@reddit
I wish to down New Zealand can you direct me
smallfrys92@reddit (OP)
I completely understand and have been trying to rationalise how I feel for several days now. Important to mention again though, I currently live in NL and my family is in NZ. Very far away - 30+ hours of expensive travelling.
The following thoughts keep coming up too..
1. Am I ok with not attending friends/family's weddings and funerals? (Already missed my grandads funeral. My best friend is getting married in 1 year and my BF was trying to convince me not to plan on going due to $$)
Am I ok with my future children not growing up around the Kiwi culture?
Am I ok with my future children only knowing my family through video call? and am I ok with not having my family there to support me when I need them?
Opposite-Ad6340@reddit
A heartwarming suggestion
okaywhattho@reddit
It's equivalent to going on holiday in another country and thinking you could easily live there. Except when returning home you have the added benefit of many of your friends and family being there.
Chicken_Burp@reddit
I had a similar experience last year. Took my Dutch wife for a roadtrip in Northern Australia. Fell in love with my old country and have been battling homesickness ever since.
Didn’t make the move because the cost of living in Australia is horrific in comparison to NL.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Yeah but if you don't like living in NL then whats the point of the lower cost of living?
Chicken_Burp@reddit
Ah, food and shelter.
Any-Addition-281@reddit
I understand, but you don't like nl, so the cheaper cost of living comes at the cost of your happiness, so how is it worth it?
DivineAlmond@reddit
my hard skill is my english proficiency, I managed to add comms and marketing to the mix but I am where I am due to my native-level English. I also studied a bit in AUS, have been around the world, and now am living in EU
if I had any other hard skill, tech, coding, engineering, hair styling etc, I would have stayed in AUS. If anyone asks me if I want to move back to AUS I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I have a decent life here now.
AUS and I presume NZ are so, so good compared to everything I've seen and experienced. no offsense I have zero idea why someone from NZ would prefer EU if they are not getting paid 100k at least :)
yo gotta go back!!! :) if you can find a decent job ofc
simple_explorer1@reddit
Not NZ for sure. Very limited job opportunities, very high cost of living compared to salaries, dull soulless cities with nothing to do and EXTREMELY boring, car dependent and poor public infrastructure, legal gang violence, drug/meth addiction, homelessness, barely any city (even auckland is just 1.5m suburban city with just kroad/queen street and that's about it), every city (or towns) in NZ just a single street in the centre and suburban sprawl - that's about it, maori culture is hardly interesting, kiwis themselves emigrate in HUGEEE numbers to AUstralia (15% of entire nz population live in AU, that's nuts), racism, passive aggressive people and if you say one wrong thing about nz you are gone, extreme isolation from anywhere and even closest part of AU is is 4 hrs flight away, travelling internationally is out of the question and will cost an arm and leg to get anywhere interesting, pacific islands are hardly interesting once you see even one island, nz is quite poor and underpaid compared to anywhere in the west etc.
Don't forget that the sun also causes skin cancer and you constantly have to apply sunscreen.
Nature is very pretty and its outdoorsy but beyond that there is honestly not much to do.
I really don't know how you can say "NZ is better than anything you have seen in the world". You need to travel more. I would say UK is the better balance with scotland/england in the mix.
CriticalSpirit@reddit
They're good, but they're also very remote. If you've settled and are mostly interested in natural beauty, it will do, but the monetary and temporal cost of travelling in and out of Australia or New Zealand would just be too much for me. EU is very centrally located and a top destination in itself.
Subject_Ad_9680@reddit
I feel like this is very relative on where you are coming from. If you are from a country connected to anywhere on the Pacific Ocean, then Europe isn't really "centrally located"
CriticalSpirit@reddit
This is based on where most people live and want to visit.
Phronesis2000@reddit
I think that in almost every case, people lauding NZ or Australia traveled there as childless people in their 20s.
Once you have kids, your life shrinks so much (geographically and socially) so that the benefits of Europe as against Australasia become stronger.
Very few people with young kids are going white water rafting or surfing regularly — the kind of thing that you can easily do in Australasia. But having excellent public transport, cheap/free childcare, generous maternity leave, and easy cheap holidays to other countries become really beneficial with young kids.
Subject_Ad_9680@reddit
Why do you prefer Australia over your EU country?
abeorch@reddit
Kiwi that almost moved back. Some ramblings as I sit in November sun in Spain Island an back from Barcelona , Madrid and hectic London in the last two weeks.
I spent several three month breaks back in NZ and realised as other posters are saying its a wonderful place to visit and im so lucky to have had the opportunity to experience it in the way I watched all the tourists do when i was growing up there but never understood.
I did however start to realise the limitations, the money, cost of living (food, phones, internet - luckily avoided rent) , distance to anything, lack of services and quality of heating, housing also some of the social reasons ...
I strongly suggest that it you are considering it do it in such a way you are able to go back after six months if you want to. Make sure you have the money and resources to. If you can try working remotely from Nz ( The night working is hard but at least you will a salary to compare to what you might get in NZ)
You will always have the repeated joy of coming home without giving up the opportunities out in the rest of the world. NZ doesn't have an easyJet (or Air Marroc)
Are you bored of Netherlands? What about the rest of Europe/ futher afield?
Getting visa for your partner if you need to is a walk in the park. ( Immigration NZ have a helpline that is actually helpful)
Your options in NZ will be limited for work and salary. Ask yourself why you want to move back. Can you scratch the itch with regular trips back and some remote work while you are there? Scenery is for holidays , food, I cant say that NZ rates better than South Europe or Middle East / Levant and at the budget end is much more expensive. ( No €2 bottles of cava at Lidl) Family well that is a reason. I miss my family and should visit more for longer but I also look forward to the young ones visiting discovering the value of foreign languages, not just their own .., and realising that no culture or language is really better than any other - and there really are so many ..
Culture I still feel more comfortable being uncomfortable and learning a new culture and how different but the same they are. New Zealand sometimes ( and I say this because they are so lucky to be able to) indulges in its own idea of its uniqueness, and self familiarity) its easy .. you can slot back in and do everything without thinking but then that is just a little boring. Good for a while but you will also (I think) always be a bit weird because you left and people will reassure you that you realised the error of your way in coming back (Which feels a bit judged)
YippeeDance@reddit
Best answer I've seen.
I also live in OPs neck of the woods. Do not make big life decisions on moving when it has been pissing down with rain over here past month 😅😅 take some high dose vitamin D and reassess later.
You'll get more sunshine in NZ but you'll be poorer. NZ is nice but I like living somewhere where I and my kids have actual prospects, good healthcare, no student loans....
smallfrys92@reddit (OP)
Thank you but my feelings are not only due to the weather. It's mainly about missing my family, friends and the kiwi culture. Even after 7 years in NL, I still don't feel that I have accepted the dutch culture and traditions. I find myself trying to change my BFs traditions in some ways to make myself feel more at home and that's also not fair on him.
Hour-Ladder-8330@reddit
Do you speak Dutch? English is good to get things done in NL but for everything (including social life and integration), as you already know, is in Dutch. A LOT of people from developed countries don't learn the language and live in English bubble. The only people who bother with Dutch are immigrants from developing countries as they try their best to learn the language and establish themselves in the new Country.
So, again, do you speak Dutch? If no then you will never feel at home as everything else is in Dutch even if most people can speak english.
Also, NZ absolutely cannot compete with the amazing infrastructure of NL. Infact NL makes NZ look like a 3rd world country in terms of infrastructure. Easy travel and being in the center of the world is also a thing you will miss. NZ is just in the middle of nowhere.
Is it not possible for you both to move to UK, its english speaking, culture is same (or even better) than NZ, LOTS of kiwis/Australians in UK, friendly people and you will immediately feel at home there. Also, you have more pick with england, scotland, wales, NI to pick from and dozens of cities to pick from betwen London, manchester, Edinburgh, Brighton etc. Most kiwis who come to europe move to UK anyways so I am very surprised you stuck with Netherlands for so long.
Any reason you are not considering UK? Getting adjusted to Dutch directness, colder people, planning the heck of everything, no spontaneity, culturally less warm etc. are all the challenges in Netherlands EVEN if you learn the Dutch.
Opposite-Ad6340@reddit
I feel happy reading yours.
DeiDen@reddit
Bro, I'ved lived in the Netherlands my whole life, went to NZ for a week, and I miss how beautiful NZi is.
radiopelican@reddit
Moved back due to covid. Met my fiancee and the second covid ban lifted we left.
Nz is a career killer country, you'll watch your friends get promoted and exceed you overseas if you stay,there too long. Gotta be where the action is and nz isn't the place at all
exsnakecharmer@reddit
Yep moved back (to NZ) about 6 years ago to get my masters.
Worst mistake ever, and I regret it every day.
That is me though - it really depends what you want, and what your goals are.
Professional_Elk_489@reddit
Dutch can be kinda sociopathic cold sometimes. I was playing tennis this week and fell on the sandy indoor courts and broke my elbow, was in visible pain. None the other 3 guys on the court bothered to check how I was doing. Played tennis in a lot of different countries and that is not normaal.
The coach said he was sorry I hurt my arm and kept trying to explain to me stuff about tennis technique as I was wincing in pain with a properly broken dislocated arm desperately trying to get an Uber to pick me up before my phone died.
Obv not all Dutch are like that but a lot more are like this than you’ll find in other countries. Our upstairs neighbours for instance started rambling on about internet connection works when we first met them rather than ask us our names or see who we were lol.
Appeltaart232@reddit
Sorry that you’ve had that experience. In my 10 years in NL I’ve had a lot more people offer assistance in need than my years in my home country previously (Bulgaria).
Schroedingers_2cents@reddit
Jeez 😂
I’m an expat in the Netherlands too and am struggling with the uber-rationalism/pragmatism and just lack of emotional depth and warmth that you encounter here way more than in other places it seems.
Propofol-sensei-13@reddit
Not a kiwi. But if I had the option of going back to my country, I would
Nothing beats your childhood memories. Your friends, your neighborhood, the old schools. The family that you grow old with. The food you are used to..
My community is toxic, I was mistreated by my family. I had to leave. But, If the multiverse is true. There is a version of me in my home country. Living close to mom and dad. Eating my local food everyday. Being proud of my culture
Disastrous-Print9891@reddit
Aussie in Canada. I’ve had 7 years here and been back to Sydney & Brissy 3 times in the last year. I genuinely miss Aussie blokes, the incestuous sports culture, food & culture. I’m literally in the transition now after one more ski season I’ll be heading back to Sydney for March or April. Can’t explain Aussie Kiwi culture to anyone but it’s our culture and though living overseas is great we’re bloody lucky. The Canadian economy has gone to shite is another deciding factor.
nyc317a@reddit
The Australian economy isn’t exactly thriving right now either with high interest rates etc
numberknitnerd@reddit
I moved back to Canada after living in the Netherlands, for very much the same reasons you describe. I do miss the Netherlands sometimes, but I'm very glad to be back among friends and family, and the gorgeous Canadian scenery.
One thing that made the transition back home a bit easier is that I had saved enough money that I didn't have to find a job right away. I have found work that I enjoy and is reasonably well paid, but it's definitely not on the same career trajectory as when I was in Europe. That's fine for me, since my priority now is being near friends and family, but the work-life balance you want is something important to consider before making the move.
Bobinho4@reddit
The contracts between Nonaturelands and New Zealand is the starkest it can be.
ulayanibecha@reddit
Funnily enough New Zealand is named after a Dutch province.
UnitedSam@reddit
Lmao yep moving from Old Zealand to New Zealand
Bobinho4@reddit
Great point. Itmakes it even crazier.
Professional_Elk_489@reddit
Kuwait & NZ
Past_Reaction_3474@reddit
why living in the netherlands if you could life in kiwiland? no wonder that you are homesick
Past_Reaction_3474@reddit
why living in the netherlands if you could life in kiwiland? no wonder that you are homesick
smolperson@reddit
Kiwi in Europe here! As you probably well know, we all think NZ is a retirement village. We plan to move back when we want to settle and buy a house and have kids. I’m a couple years younger than you so not ready yet, but expecting to make the move around the same age as you.
Phronesis2000@reddit
Just curious...if you feel like it is a retirement village...why do you want to move back and have your kids there? You will still have another 40 years or so unil you retire!
Personally, I feel Europe is a pretty good place to bring up your kids, the only benefit of being back in NZ would be family to help out with kids.
smolperson@reddit
Ah we mostly call it a retirement village because it’s good for old people and kids. It’s not a bad place to work either.
I think parts of Europe would also be suitable but yeah family is a big thing with kids. We have multiple older relatives who have retired so babysitting galore. Can’t pass that up!
Sugmanuts001@reddit
Not sure what kind of answer you are expecting. And this is in no way meant negatively.
You now seem to have a life in Europe, spent a 2,5 week vacation home and want to move back. To me it sounds a lot like posts made by Americans who spent 2,5 weeks to 2 months in the Netherlands and then want to move there. They move there, and realize that it's not Eldorado once they actually live there (as opposed to being on vacation).
Remember why you moved away. If the only reason was your boyfriend, then make sure that you have a good job before moving back but give it a try.
If there were other reasons, chances are, those reasons for moving away from NZ will be there if you return and you will then regret your decision to move back.