Ok guys, it's time we talked about Wesley Crusher
Posted by Effective_Pea1309@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 55 comments
What's your opinion of the guy? What's your opinion of his overall arc? What your opinion on the relationships he has over the show?
TadMcAllister@reddit
I liked Wesley, the actor, the character. I really liked the episode with him at Starfleet Academy, one of my favorites. Most of the writing with him was terrible though and nonplausible. A child flying the Enterprise and configuring its systems didn't make any sense, like when he was assigned the task of saving the lives of the captain and bridge officers trapped in the Holodeck. Why would that be assigned to a child?! Where was the engineering crew?!
481126@reddit
I didn't find him annoying as a kid. Even more so when Alexander was there WHINING the entire time about everything. Not that he didn't have the right to with his mother dying and Worf being a mediocre Dad at best.
Talkat@reddit
Yup. Alexander was very very annoying and Warf a very very shitty father.
I liked Weasley, he was/is a good kid.
As far as most annoying.. don't get me started on Neelix.
civilitty@reddit
Neelix was easily top 5 Star Trek alien.
Secret-Target-8709@reddit
Again?
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Always 🤌😂
Secret-Target-8709@reddit
He went from being kicked off the bridge to becoming an acting ensign. He fought for and earned what little credibility he had, and wasn't just a wonder boy. he made some big mistakes and was held accountable.
Realistic-Safety-565@reddit
Horrible character concept, horrible execution - a bland character we are supposed to root for because guy in stripes pajamas compared him to Mozart. The number of times show pulls "crew wrong, Wesley right" scenario in transparent attempt to make character look important is off-putting in itself. He was an early bad idea that the show had to shake off to become succesful, and prime example that "Genes Vision (TM)" is not a serious concept.
In later series he was a relic, getting less and less screen time as the emergent stars (Worf, Geordi and Rikers beard) took to spotlight. He's less episode stealing diseaster and more center of annoying B-plots. I would never, ever say ha had an "arc" after Season 1 - he was just gradually been phased out.
His sendoff episode is another abomination - he helps starts the Maquis (a move which leads to destabilisation of Cardassia and Alpha quadrant that made Dukats coup, and Dominium War, possible), because he believes he's more qualified to judge the situation than Picard or Starfleet. And gets away with it. Another "Wesley right, crew wrong" move.
holyquiznakanotaku@reddit
Not bad in concept. Star Trek just can't seem to write good child characters other than Naomi Wildman (I accept no criticism of her, she was amazing). It's a shame because I don't even think the acting was that bad, Star Trek is just incapable of writing good child characters
Johnsendall@reddit
Poor writing. A state of the art ship with the best crew in Starfleet, one of which is a genius artificial Intelligence, always being saved by a teenager.
It wasn’t Wheaton’s fault. They gave him terrible stories, lines, and didn’t flush his character out at all.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
I chose to look on his character not as a standalone character (since it clearly doesn't stand) but rather tk see how far his own character pushes others. Now, that's not to say that it often does push storyline in the right direction, like geordi doesn't get pushed at all by this boy wonder walking around engineering for example, but still to have Picard start it saying how he'd been given a crew full of children, and how he's bad with children, I often look on Wesley as opening the door sorta for Picard to go from smart leader to caring father figure for his own crew.
andyring@reddit
We might as well talk about JarJar Binks while we're at it too...
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
😂
starfleethastanks@reddit
Like the rest of the show, he's fine starting in Season 3.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Ha!
Miss_Understands_@reddit
Why would anyone want to do that?
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
😂
l008com@reddit
First season, terrible. Second season, not nearly as bad, but not great. Once he gets a real uniform, he's fine I guess.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
And you're happy with 'fine'?
SleepWouldBeNice@reddit
What’s wrong with fine?
l008com@reddit
Fine isn't amazing but fine also isn't terrible. Fine is just.... fine.
moyaboybruce@reddit
You put fine in front of -wine and -dining and you really got something there!
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
'Wesley crusher was fine-dining!'
Are you sure..?
Unit_79@reddit
More fine whining.
eberkain@reddit
Everything about the first season is pretty terrible. Second season has some good episodes, but also has some of the worst episodes. So it sounds like he is just in line with everyone else in the case.
Abe_Bettik@reddit
I was about to ask, what episodes in Season 2 were all that bad, and then I remembered the Golden Girls episode, Shades of Gray.
countesspetofi@reddit
I loved Wesley. Identified with him hard. He was my audience insert character.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Awh 😌 were you of a similar age as him?
countesspetofi@reddit
Yep.
flossdaily@reddit
The writers did him dirty.
"Shut up, Wesley!" will always be the show's lowest point.
Making him an all-purpose boy genius was the first problem. The Traveler said he would "be like Mozart for warp engines". There should have stuck to that, and had Wesley's interest and brilliance focus on that.
They could have had a fascinating long-form story arc where Wesley learns from the engineering team and data, and quickly shows that he better at running the warp engine than Geordi. It could have created a fascinating and nuanced tension, and a crisis of confidence for Geordi, giving us room for Geordi's character to grow.
Wes might have grown to see Geordi or data as the father figures he lacks. Maybe even worf. Picard would have been too distant a figure for that. Instead they shoehorned it in with two separate contrived Picard and Wesley shuttlecraft adventures.
We could have seen Wesley explore his limited relationship options on the ship, and show us through his eyes that enterprise was essentially a very, very, very small town, and how that would spark a very different type of... Not wanderlust exactly, but a desire for City life or something.
Wesley also could have been our entry point to really explore what it's like to be a teenager in the star Trek universe. How hilarious would it have been to have an episode where Wesley loses his virginity on a holodeck program. Having him have his first love be a virtual girl world have been an incredibly compelling long story arc.
Wil Wheaton had the acting chops to pull it off.. They just failed to use him.
Oh. And what they did to his character in the end was unforgivable.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Wow, yeah. Props to you man, you single-handedly redeemed him for me (had they done that)
ComprehensiveMarch58@reddit
Sometimes I think I'm the only one who loved Wesley through and through. I only wish we had gotten to see more of him (his time at the academy, his life with the traveler, etc) if they made a show dedicated to Westley and his life, I would watch the hell out of it. Do I think he was was a bit much at first? Yeah but I think it played well into his character growth throughout the series.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Ok, I see your point.
Personally I don't dislike the guy but I never cared for him (or geordi for that matter). I appreciate what their characters and episodes have taught me but, I secretly wished I could've skipped a few. Nothing in particular, just not my type of characters I guess.
Still, I like what I've heard that Wesley has done for kids in school around the time it first aired, I like the idea of the traveler and how he does encourage his 'parents' to encourage him but moderately. It's nice
Still, I like seeing your point of view, seeing as how you like him
KitchenNazi@reddit
What did Wesley do for kids in school? I was a kid in school and everyone hated him. Just because you put a kid character in a show doesn't mean we'll suddenly relate. He was a poorly written character.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
I mean that other people have attested to hike inspiring them. I was simply stating that im aware to some people he was a good character, just as to others (you, in this case) he wasn't. No need to get all triggered
KitchenNazi@reddit
Not triggered- he was just an annoying character. Better when he went to the academy but as some random kid fixing things on the ship - he was one of the many crappy aspects of the show when it started.
Aggravating-Try1222@reddit
I 100% agree. I was a kid when TNG aired, so I liked having a kid as a main character, especially because he was smarter than most of the crew.
I would loooove a series based around Wesley.
Worf_Of_Wall_St@reddit
As an overachieving nerd of a kid who also screwed up bad sometimes, I feel like he sort of represented me in that universe, but his presence also showed that if I were an intern working for all these adult characters I respect so much they would probably just tell me to shut up and I would be sad.
karituba@reddit
ok... I'm going to be that person.... We've talked about Wesley ad nauseam. The End. Down vote me.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Nah I'm not gonna downvote ya
1ndomitablespirit@reddit
This is a discussion that has been happening before reddit was even an idea. I bet if you can find an archive of the old Star Trek newsgroups (usenet) there would be a Wesley discussion within the first 20 posts you saw.
Not saying it isn't still a worthy discussion for younger fans, but just providing context that Wesley hate/love arguments are older than the world wide web.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Omg are you serious?? 😂😂 dude ! How has this show transcended years like that!
I mean, it kinda feels like I'm time traveling when I'm listening to the show
1ndomitablespirit@reddit
It is easy to forget, but at the time of TNG, Star Wars was effectively dead, except for the books and occasional decent video game, real sci-fi wasn't really a thing. TNG wasn't even a network show, it was syndicated. Xena, Babylon 5, Stargate, etc. didn't exist, and maybe wouldn't if not for TNG. There just weren't a lot of quality shows for nerds and nerdlings.
The people creating the internet were optimistic nerds, the majority of which, I imagine, loved TOS and of course were interested in TNG. A bunch of IT nerds using message boards to communicate were just naturally going to talk about TNG.
Fandom back then was not like fandom now. It is mainstream now for everyone to absorb every mention of whatever franchise they are into, but that was traditionally only something nerds did with the things they love. Most of the rest of the people would just move on, even if they really liked something.
As a nerdling myself at the time, Wesley was absolutely someone I wished I was, but at the same time, I could see that it was ridiculous that the untrained kid was often more right than the highly competent adults. The writers just didn't know how to write for a kid, and at times made Wesley seem kinda douchey.
So it was just a perfect time for many, many discussions about Wesley because there just really wasn't too much other pop culture that engaged nerds in the same way, and this new technology that allowed us all to communicate with each other. Of COURSE we're going to do it by arguing about dumb stuff!
Houli_B_Back@reddit
He’s great.
Basically a surrogate for young audience members to get into the show, and a tribute to a lot of the whiz kid characters in the early twentieth century pulps Roddenberry grew up on.
He has a couple of cool storylines like The First Duty, and I like how he ends up as a Traveler and a recruiter in Picard.
As far as his relationships go, dude bagged a young Ashley Judd- sorry, Robin Lefler… so he’ll always be the man.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
Gotta say, loved the one where he's stuck in a desert with Picard
Acrobatic-Shirt8540@reddit
It's time we talked about him? 😆 Isn't he one of the most talked about characters because he's marmite?
Personally I think the character wasn't great anyway, but that Wheaton made him infinitely more annoying. It's hard to think about how it might have been with a different actor but there's combination of the two...ugh.
Keeping_Hope97@reddit
I agree with u/l008com in that he was pretty terrible in season 1, although when the focus is on him being stuck in a bad situation like in Justice or Coming of Age rather than him being a super genius that saves the day he isn't too bad. It's the whole "he's a prodigy of untold brilliance" that is incredibly cringe even on rewatch, but that's mostly limited to a few episodes.
I don't hate him as much as many memes do though. Yes, the child prodigy stuff is bad, but I can understand why it was there (to appeal to younger audiences) and it's not as if TNG didn't have other characters that were cringe in the early seasons too. And he's the main focus in two of my all-time favourite episodes: his two season 5 appearances - The Game and The First Duty. Both legitimately great episodes.
That said, his final episode is so unbelievably awful in so many ways that I refuse to rewatch it even when doing full series rewatches. So to me his "arc" does not really end. I'm fine with my headcanon of him staying at the Academy and struggling through the challenges of isolation and maybe bullying because of the 'First Duty incident', but still being determined to become a Starfleet officer. I much prefer that over his weird time travelling extra-dimensional prodigy nonsense that was insisted upon by his alien groomer.
To be honest, upon rewatch, I really didn't have too much of a problem with Wesley. I enjoyed watching most of the the Wesley episodes FAR more than most of the Deanna episodes. At least his had some elements of light-heartedness or fun, whereas hers are just dreadfully dull and low energy (except Face of the Enemy which is awesome).
_Pliny_@reddit
I agree with you about the end of Wesley’s story- I much prefer to think of him as staying at the academy and working hard at his life’s goal.
I also agree that I never found his episodes too bad when I watched the series again as an adult. I loved Wesley when I was a kid, and my kid loves him this time around. I remember crying when we thought he’d be executed in Justice, and I looked over to see my kid with tears too.
Gotta disagree with you re: Troi. I really enjoy her character and stories and I am so impressed and appreciative to know a show way back in the late 80s/early 90s centered mental health and empathy.
Abe_Bettik@reddit
If you ignore the Wesley part, the whole Native American plot is probably the closest thing to modern real life situation we still face today. If only they showed us how to actually solve it, instead of resorting to Time Travel.
Which is a shame because Deanna's character is the most maturely written of the bunch. When I was a kid I liked Data and LaForge. As a teen I liked Picard. Now as an adult I find myself looking forward to seeing more Deanna Troi, because she is such a well written character with a strength we still don't see much of in modern media. She is emotionally mature and so empathic it's a literal superpower. She is a strong female in a truly FEMININE way. Contrast that with most "strong women" in modern media and they're just women who fight as good as men, or are okay with being bossy.
Keeping_Hope97@reddit
I don't rank the quality of TNG episodes based on how much it reflects modern political issues, so that's not really a factor for me. I know some people like Trek purely because of projecting their own political views/values onto it, but that's not me. Sometimes I agree with its values, sometimes I don't. For me it's entertainment first and foremost.
You make some good points about Deanna though. I agree that I like the concept of her character a lot, though the execution of it leaves a lot to be desired. I agree that she is a more positive rolemodel for women wanting to be "strong" and "independent" than the type of action hero trope we see in movies and shows these days. Deanna reminds me a lot of a woman I used to date - professional, intelligent and mature but also feminine, beautiful and kind-hearted. I'll take that type of female character any day over the type of unpleasant type I imagine we're both thinking of.
The romance episodes are particularly bad. The only TNG character whose romances made for good episodes was Picard. It also doesn't help that since Deanna looks almost identical to one of my exes I inherently feel like NOT watching her romance episodes lmao.
Abe_Bettik@reddit
I don't know -what- you're thinking, honestly. I was thinking of Black Widow, someone I like as a character, they're well-developed, but whose strength is "she can fight like the boys." Or Breanne of Tarth, a strong woman only because she also is, literally.
Janeway is also a great character, showing a more matronly side of leadership... a way to be decisive and strong while still being Feminine.
Disagree. I didn't like Picard's romances at all. I like the wormhole one, where Troi dates another Betazoid, Riker dating the androgynous alien, and Crusher dating the Trill. Each one of those tells a unique story where the relationship is fundamental to the story... not just a cheap way to add emotional investment.
Keeping_Hope97@reddit
Oh well. This is reddit. I didn't expect to agree with redditors on such issues anyways. I pretty much agreed with what you said but the way you worded this sounded somewhat passive aggressive so maybe not *shrug*
I definitely think Janeway is a good example of a female protaganist that is strong, confident and powerful without being abrasive, rude and prickly, though, so I agree with you there. Maybe. Who knows at this point. Feel like I'm walking on eggshells as usual.
Theborgiseverywhere@reddit
There are some great Wes episodes after the first couple of seasons- like The Game or Final Mission and I always loved his quick cameos in episodes like Parallels
floofymonstercat@reddit
Hot mom. Love Wil Wheaton, Wesley not so much.
Effective_Pea1309@reddit (OP)
'Hot mom' is best answer. You win a prize