What happens to gold and silver in a SHTF scenario?
Posted by TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 304 comments
I can't see people trading in gold and silver. They've been historically used as an exchange of value, but SHTF and massive deaths will upend that. Instead it will be food, weapons and bullets. Things will have value, but possession will be the effective law, however it was obtained. People speak about gold and silver as though stores would still be operating (meaning there's electricity) and you'd get your grocery cart, fill it and pay with gold and silver. I just can't see that as a realistic scenario under any circumstance. If the grid stays up, we'll have civilization, internet and money. No grid, no civilization,.
Money, gold, silver will be worthless.. If 90% of the population dies, property and things will be available for the taking.
RUBYINNYC@reddit
Let's say YOU need food, weapons & bullets & SELLER needs chickens & medicine.
But you don't have chickens or medicine.
That's what gold & silver is for.
EyesOfAzula@reddit
Gold / Silver may not be useful if your country collapses, but if you can escape your country to another one that is still functioning, you could convert your gold into local currency little by little as you see what happens.
Even in a situation where 90% of countries collapse, there will still be at least a few of that are functioning. In WW2 Europe and parts of Asia were in ruins but the US was untouched.
For WW3 it could be some countries in the global south are untouched, while the global north is largely destroyed
Watchdembleed@reddit
When the shit really hits the fan and the world is done for gold means nothing. Food and water will be more valuable.
EyesOfAzula@reddit
Absent a major cosmic event like the sun exploding or collision with another planet, etc, that wouldn’t happen. Even if every single nuke was used in nuclear war at the same time. There would still be countries that escape unscathed.
Their people would carry on even as most developed nations burn down.
cmb3248@reddit
This is the answer, and it's the only reason I have gold.
If things are unstable in the US but still relatively stable in Mexico, the dollar will drop and the US stock market will drop, but gold likely will not. It can be concealed and also used for bribes if needed, all while fitting in a pocket or small bag.
ROM12-12_WORK@reddit
Mexico 🇲🇽 has never been relatively stable the government is sooo corrupt
Mindless_Pop_632@reddit
So is the wall to keep people out or keep them in?
evrial@reddit
You can move to Mexico beforehand, moving life savings in gold during dollar collapse isn't wisest idea
cmb3248@reddit
It's not life savings, it's an emergency fund. I don't think the likelihood is high enough to prep seriously for that, and if it did I'd just leave the country.
Collapse doesn't have to be "collapse." Think of more targeted political persecution. Lots of people have become exiles/asylees, some with relatively little notice that it would be necessary.
My main prep is assuming I may need to flee to Mexico from Texas within 12 hours. I don't think it's likely, but it's a non-zero possibility.
And having portable wealth is the best way to prepare for that. It won't be my life savings, but it's enough for a few months food and rent in Mexico. And it doubles as part of my emergency fund here.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Silver and gold are wealth.
It was J.P. Morgan who said "Gold is money everything else is credit".
I think that gold is money to the elites. And silver is money to most people. Because most people can afford to buy a few dozen oz of silver as an emergency fund. Far fewer people can afford to buy and hold a few dozen oz of gold!
Mothersilverape@reddit
Gold and silver must be on a lot of peoples minds to have garnered several hundred comments.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
Last time I asked the question about gold and silver I lost half my karma to downvotes. People get very heated about this subject, especially if you are not pro-precious-metals.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Reddit is loaded with people who are very frustrated with their lives and scan posts looking for chances to give negative karma. It's actually sad that this would give anyone pleasure, but there we have it.
Mothersilverape@reddit
I know what you mean about burning through karma!
I decided that getting our local communities prosperous and healthy again was worth all of my massive karma!
I’ve got tons of it, and may as well use it to do good for the world. So here I am burning my karma and I’ll burn every last karma bit I own to help people learn that they have good options out from the current debt based banking system. It semms like a worthy cause to me!
El_Maton_de_Plata@reddit
Your song really anchors me
Mothersilverape@reddit
Well I’m just glad it doesn’t annoy you! 👍
I bet it will annoy bankers who are in the business of debt creation instead of wealth creation, and love to strengthen the public’s addiction to credit and financial bondage.
El_Maton_de_Plata@reddit
Spot on. End the Fed
Mothersilverape@reddit
I am very surprised that the Fed has not been buying silver. I don’t know what the real story is going on there. I can’t see them willingly committing hari-kari.
JPM bank has more physical silver than any other entity in the world. What one doesn’t know, is who they are holding it in custody for.
If I had to guess, it’s either the US treasury, or one of the Federal Reserve Banks in the USA.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
You can only "get the word out" if you have karma to burn. Once you've been downvoted sufficiently you are just pissing against the wind. There doesn't seem to be room here for a qualified opinion from someone who has literally been through such disasters and seen first-hand, the uselessness of precious metals.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Well, there are all sorts of ways that the powers that be can mess with me. Down votes. Locking me in at 1 vote, making my comments sink to the bottom of each post. Ignoring me.
Karma no longer matters. But I understand if you can’t burn yours. We will just have to use up all of mine!
It’s going to be up to the people browsing on Reddit to find our downvoted comments and posts. Up and down votes no longer matter. Surely they can see past that charade!
I know that someone has powers to buy algorithms downvote cintent they don’t like. I’m sure that Reddit, who sells packages to businesses to buy up votes, also allow big business to buy down votes.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
Only in theory. Not sure if you've ever tried bringing gold into any other country but generally they stop you and confiscate it if it is above $10k worth. Speaking from experience. Some people who suggest kiestering haven't been in an airport in 22 years with the new nude body scanners.
Jaysin197666@reddit
Scenario 1 WW 3 And this is unlikely to happen as long as nukes are not launched gold and silver will still have value what that value will be will be is unknown as its price is fixed on a supply and demand as well as other factors.
Scenario 2 Civil war how ever unlikely this will be the govt forces will secure large cities and coastal port towns first and then secure fully all the costal states that will be the logical strong holds for the federal forces. any fighting will pretty much be in the Central States like North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Mississippi and Alabama. Even though some of them state are coastal and port states they will see action in non occupied areas and we would not be looking at massive assaults like one thinks of during a war it will be fought place to place town to town based on troop and movement on either side might have a battle in Corn Hole Iowa one day and every things quiet for 4 days when the next battle happens in Frogs Hair Illinois goods will still be coming in maybe not in the amounts we would like to see but things can still be bought and sold and usually to the person who can give the most for a item this is where gold and silver will shine.
Scenario 3 And this one is most likely to happen Hyper inflation collapse of the US dollar. silver and gold is a wealth preserving tool and in times of inflation hyper inflation gold and silver goes up in value way more then the supply and demand model of things strong dollar the bid prices come down and so do the ask prices when the dollar is weak bid prices go up so do ask prices. would you rather pay 1/4 oz of silver for a loaf of bread or a wheel barrel full of money for a loaf of bread? back in the day when The Weimar Republic was faced with hyper inflation people would take a wheel barrel of money to the store for a loaf of bread and a lb of meat leave it out side to check if the store had invatory come out to their pile of money on the ground and the wheel barrel gone as it had more value and use then the money.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
If there's no SHTF, there will be digital payments, which is what's coming. If there is SHTF, gold and silver are useless. People won't be carrying around and paying with gold and silver. They'll be taking things with weapons. Your scenario is the most absurd.
OG_Austin_peep@reddit
As long as you have gold in SHTf situation remember someone can take it by force. Same goes for all other items. Gold is heavy. I’d say focus on bugging in if you have selected your homestead peoperly, get solar/ geothermal, well, water storage, food prep etc and then if something happens have some barter items. Just don’t see gold as having value in a true SHTF situation
OG_Austin_peep@reddit
I watched George gamin on YouTube- he went down to Argentina, taking gold, silver, bitcoin, Argentinian pesos and U.S. dollars. He tried to pay for things with gold and silver: no one wanted it. Ditto for Bitcoin and the peso. All they wanted was US dollars. If SHTF where grid goes down for months to years but no nukes, you’re correct- barter items like food, ammo, seeds, alcohol, cigs will be useful. Gold and silver? Not so much. So when Preppers hoard gold/silver I have to scratch my head….
Hopeful-Scientist413@reddit
Well, depending on who is around you. You could use them for electronics. Nothing says a big upgrade like computers when others are living like cavemen.
TheRealVaderForReal@reddit
Its for a different type of SHTF. If you're thinking of grid down type, then yea its worthless. If its for financial collapse, it'll bounce back and people are hedging their bets.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Gold and silver are wealth for when banks fail. Banks are in the busness of debt creation. Not wealth creation.
It was JPM the banker himself, who long ago said gold and silver are wealth. Everything else is debt.
AmandaJL30@reddit
Money means nothing to the animal kingdom and how have they survived this long? Its survival of the fittest. Animals hold no value to a currency in order to survive…why do we.? They live off the land. If we put our minds together, and actually walked the land and took care of it, there would be no reason for currency other than the abundance of population. We have overpopulated ourselves, and that’s a fact and resources are becoming harder to come by because too many of us are too lazy to do anything about it and that’s why we have currency.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Even the ravens know to leave a shiny wrapper or pretty store when they take the freshly planted peas and beans.
Humans will always need a means of exchange. It may as well be one of value, and represent honest labour.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
If there's just a massive financial failure without massive deaths, sure.
TheRealVaderForReal@reddit
If they're planning for the Great Depression, then it would bounce back, might take awhile, but thats when precious metals hold their value.
If someone has disposable income and their other needs met (food, watter, weapons, etc), might a well.
InitialJumper@reddit
Wouldn't investing in international markets be better as an investment than gold?
Mothersilverape@reddit
Are you really expecting Europe or Africa or Asian to be doing better than the UA and the US D?
evrial@reddit
If you are ready to take the risk, sure. You can even start a business if you go that route
therealharambe420@reddit
Which happen all over the world constantly.
InitialJumper@reddit
If there is a financial collapse that bounces back, why would all the market shares people have invested not also bounce back?
TheRealVaderForReal@reddit
I dont know, I'm not a finance guy, I just know that gold and silver always hold their value in economic times
Mothersilverape@reddit
The truth The truth sometimes is pretty simple!
Girafferage@reddit
N
InitialJumper@reddit
I'm talking about investing in the S&P 500. As businesses go in and out of this index, you should see your investments rise with the market. So even though Amazon disappears, your investments will still rise when the new wave of businesses show up.
Girafferage@reddit
Maybe, I suppose a lot depends on your timeline for needing that money and if it takes 15 years for things to really get back on their feet, can your investments wait that long?
capt-bob@reddit
This, people taking the precious metals for chickens eggs, garden veggies, a spare generator, repair to house... As speculation they will be able to get cash eventually. It's speculation . You won't get normal spot value of before the disaster, but better than nothing. Think if you are a roofer or repair guy, what would someone have to give you to bother with a big job like fixing their roof or similar in such a senario? A gold bar that's worth more in the future? Or a brick of 22 shells? If you are already prepped yourself, future gains might look good.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Yes. I would never buy silver or gold without having’s first stocked up on water and shelf stable food. And I would never go into debt to buy these things either.
InitialJumper@reddit
At least in the US, where would you trade this gold in for currency to purchase goods/life necessities? If the US market tanked beyond the point where even emergency funds are useless, the entire world's economy would likely suffer with it.
Girafferage@reddit
If society is still functioning, there will be people who will buy and exchange precious metals. Im not thinking of a global catastrophe, and I dont think you should be hoarding gold and silver. I feel like having a few k in precious metals is a fine hedge in case you need it. You could use it to bribe your way out of any country I can imagine for instance even if the currency is experiencing hyperinflation.
InitialJumper@reddit
If we are at the point of bribing people with physical metals, wouldn't food/bullets/water, etc. be better for bartering to OP's original point? It seems you just looped back to the original question OP was posing.
capt-bob@reddit
I guess because it's physical in your hand and you don't have Internet access to transfer international funds. You wouldn't probably get the metals full worth, but you could get someone to do something big now hoping the gold bar would do them good later. How much ammo and food would you have to give for a construction dude down the street to fix your roof , get someone to fix your car or generator, or get a spare from someone. Stuff like that anyway. That's How I understand it anyway, but I'm not buying metals myself though.
InitialJumper@reddit
But if the grid is down and we are in a collapse so big that we can't even access our investments/internet, why would the construction dude care about gold over food/usable goods?
Mothersilverape@reddit
You bet your construction dude would care. It would be like Bitcoin on steroids! And what’s better, is that it would be real! Real and available to make transactions in the event of financial turmoil and economic collapse.
capt-bob@reddit
Maybe he has enough to get through it already, same as you, then it's the heat death of the neighborhood as far as a damaged home or needing a spare generator or whatever. If you actually were the only one with food and ammo, wouldn't it be bad to supply ammo to people that live for the moment? A shiny little bar of gold might get you roof patched or silver get your generator serviced buy the mechanic or something like that. It's all in if you can see the light at the end of the tunnel from there I guess.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Can you elaborate on which currencies are out performing gold?
Girafferage@reddit
Not necessarily. Imagine you are trying to get out of the country. Handing over some precious metals to the guy at the border might make everything very easy. They don't need food, water, or bullets. Those are all supplied. The country isn't in ruins. It's not "things are perfect" or "the US is destroyed and it's every man for themselves". There are smaller disasters that can happen without everything completely collapsing where having a small amount of precious metals on hand can be useful.
InitialJumper@reddit
But if you invest in international funds (which outperforms gold as an investment), why not just sell these off and still bribe this border agent with gold or cash? It doesn't change your ability to do this.
Girafferage@reddit
I dont know what to tell you lol. You see determined to not allow a use case for precious metals, which is fine. You do you, but there are plenty of use cases feel like they have, and especially if you have diverse investments it seems like an obvious outlet to add to that diversity.
InitialJumper@reddit
To your last point, whether or not gold is a good investment compared to other options is an entirely different discussion.
I'm not determined, just trying to understand a scenario where it would make sense. And a scenario where you need to escape the US so quickly that you don't have time to liquidate other investments, yet also it is not a total collapse sounds like fantasy.
Girafferage@reddit
Restricted access to the internet making it difficult for you to access funds from investments such as stocks and even your own bank, being accepted as essentially a universal currency that can be handed off without a paper trail, hyperinflation where you want a exchange medium that doesn't take days to clear into your bank account, as a hedge for the things you might not see coming.
The scenario of leaving the US was just that, a single scenario. Not sure why it seems like a fantasy. Maybe because we live in the US and we haven't had to experience much hardship regarding displacement or oppression? It is difficult to contemplate scenarios that we are so far removed from. I imagine if you were a Palestinian just trying to get your family out of Gaza, with no access to any bank, no electricity, and no potable running water, that it might be pretty beneficial to be able to buy somebody off at a border in order to ensure your families safety without needing to worry about which currency that person would want.
But if you cant think of a single reason to have literally any precious metals, than just don't. Other people just disagree on their usefulness. It shouldn't be something you need to make sense to you if it does to somebody else.
ORIGINALBLACKPLAGUE@reddit
you have gone above and beyond explaining to someone who does not give a shit about any use case that does not conform to their preconceived scenario.
Let them sink money into whatever they likes, don't waste any more of your time
Mothersilverape@reddit
I would agree for with you, except for the point that the more people, there are who hold gold and silver independently, the more prosperous and non-system centric and dependent our communities will be in the future.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Well said!
People really have no idea how fragile and Internet dependent financial system really is!
Mothersilverape@reddit
I can see a financial system that bifurcates into CBDCs, which are going to be closely tracked, taxed, and controlled, and precious metals, which have value & principles more in line with those who wish to have financial freedom.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Are you expecting the stock market to crash?
I’m expecting stocks where people have invested in commodities and infrastructure and tangible necessary things like energy to rise, along with gold and silver.
Mothersilverape@reddit
There is no reason why gold and the stock market can’t rise at the same time. If commodities become more valuable, then the depreciated value of the currency, then gold and the stock market would both rise together.
icemanswga@reddit
Liquidity is the difference.
Other than that, you're likely better off holding index funds as investments.
InitialJumper@reddit
It only takes a day or so to liquidate investments. After tax, brokerage funds are as liquid as a savings account.
icemanswga@reddit
It only takes a day or two right now.
Market's heading to zero? Gonna be tough to access whatever value you have left.
InitialJumper@reddit
That's why I was referencing international index funds. If only the US market collapsed, international funds would still have their value. Also, investments in the market are always liquid as they are priced at the value in which they can sell now.
If we are assuming the entire global market is tanking, who would be buying gold? That would be a true SHTF scenario where other items would be traded like food, tools, bullets, etc.
icemanswga@reddit
Yes and no. Security prices don't always reflect the presence of a buyer. There's a difference between etf "price" and what people are actually paying (bid/ask), for instance.
If global markets are in free fall, there would be an initial period during which some individuals would accept gold as payment for goods. That would be when gold would be the most useful as currency in this scenario. That gold in your hand is more liquid than currency in a brokerage account or securities.
In this type of shtf, I'd never trade something that promotes survival for some yellow metal that has no real use or value. If you can't eat it or use it to make food, it has no value in this particular situation imo.
BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit
Sure. Now suppose that there's a US financial collapse where the S&P don't bounce back for decades. Maybe China halts trade with the US. Maybe OPEC stops denominating oil sales in dollars. Maybe Russian hackers wipe every financial system AND the backups.
These are low-probability hypotheticals, but that's exactly the kind of scenario that gold and silver stackers are prepping for: even if the US economy is in shambles for a generation, precious metals will still be valued.
InitialJumper@reddit
Where would you trade this gold in for currency? If we are to believe only the US's market will tank but other countries will maintain purchasing power, why not just invest in international funds?
BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit
Economic warfare scenarios that target the US exclusively has a very high probability of disproportionately affecting the US.
Rat_Fink_Forever@reddit
Every street corner. When gold hit almost $900/Oz back in the early 80s, many businesses accepted gold/silver in payment. We Buy Gold was everywhere....and it will happen again.
I always like the example of a $20 gold piece. It would buy a new suit and a weeks worth of groceries. Still will. A $20 bill....not so much.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Wealth, I don’t believe is often destroyed except through war. It just changes hands.
heykatja@reddit
There were many who remained invested after the 1920s crash and it took something like 30 years for the market to get back to where it was. It wasn't like what happened after 2008.
old_gray_sire@reddit
Grid down, the things that will be valuable are; ammo/weapons, especially ones that are “renewable” (bow/arrow, spear); spices; spirits; slaves; optical devices (specs, binoculars); animal-based clothing; food, especially fresh or dried fruits & vegetables.
BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit
The first 10,000 years of civilization were grid down, but gold and silver still had value.
AmandaJL30@reddit
People just don’t seem to get it…they hold value to an item that you can’t actually live on. Having precious metals isn’t going to feed you isn’t going to give you more water. We have to learn how to keep our water is clean and use our land properly in order to stay prosperous with the things we need to survive. I don’t understand the logic behind a lot of people with this whole value system.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Argh, I will lead a band of pirates to loot ye of yer gold and silver! I have me pliers for pulling out gold teeth! If ye have no gold or silver, ye have to walk the plank! This is yer last warning!
GoldDestroystheFed@reddit
You’re talking about the absolute worst case mad max scenario, extremely unlikely to occur. Far more likely is a rhyming of history, which would be a collapse of fiat & return to hard money.
Decent-Apple9772@reddit
This is an old and boring argument. Some situations gold is great but it won’t help you on a sinking ship. Nothing new there.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
People don't collect precious metals for use after SHTF. They collect them as a hedge against hyperinflation.
If a loaf of bread costs $4 today, and in a year because of hyperinflation it will cost $40, then saving $4 in cash isn't going to help you buy a loaf of bread.
But when hyperinflation happens all things become more expensive in terms of the currency, so you if set aside $4 worth of gold (actually, probably more like $5 or $6), it'll be enough to purchase that loaf of bread in a year's time.
That's a really simplified explanation of why some people look towards precious metals. It's not for the SHTF scenarios, it's for the financial collapse scenarios.
Oh, and BTW, hyperinflation is a much more common scenario than any SHTF scenario:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation#Notable_hyperinflationary_periods
aquaganda@reddit
Will digital currency affect being able to sell/convert these metals?
dittybopper_05H@reddit
I'm not sure I follow. I would expect it to be the same as converting them to any other form of currency.
Gusdai@reddit
The problem is that if you're at the point when a large number of people are selling gold to buy bread because of a financial collapse, who is going to buy the gold? The price of gold might very well collapse.
The idea of gold being a stable hedge against inflation has a couple of issues. If you look at the historical value of gold against inflation, you'll see that it does not correlate very well. Notably because once it starts being used as a hedge, it starts getting influenced by trends in demand, speculation, and expected performance on other markets. For example after the 2001 crisis, demand soared and prices went through the roof. But since 2020, it has not done well despite record inflation.
Also I'll throw that in here: stocks are also a hedge against inflation. If a company buys $8 of products for $10, its profit is $2. If prices double, it'll buy the same products for $16, will be able to sell them for $20, so profit of $4. Double the profits in dollars, so double the value of the stock.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
It never has, not to that degree. At least not that I'm aware of. In fact, the opposite is likely to happen. People will hoard gold and silver as a hedge, so it's very likely to actually outpace hyperinflation and become even more valuable as the supply becomes more limited. This is a known behavior in hyperinflationary times.
Precious metals have a *LONG* history of retaining actual value through hyperinflation, which is *NOT* the same thing as regular inflation. For example, during the hyperinflationary period of Weimar Germany, one Reichsmark of gold in 1918 was worth one trillion Reichsmarks in 1924.
Precious metals like gold and silver, in addition to having practical uses in things like electronics (so will always have some value) have a history that is millennia old of being used as a medium of exchange.
The FUD you're sowing about it isn't warranted.
We're talking about *HYPERINFLATION*, not just regular inflation.
Companies go out of business during times of hyperinflation. Banks go under because their loans lose almost all of their value, and people stop depositing their money, spending it as soon as they get it because it won't be worth anything in the very near future.
Importers go out of business because the cost of goods from overseas increases dramatically. Companies go out of business and unemployment rises. This forces the government to print even more money to support the unemployed, making the problem even worse.
Having said all that, the only precious metals I own are my wedding ring and whatever traces of gold and silver is in the electronics that I own. I'm not a "gold bug", as I don't think hyperinflation is something I have to worry about.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Hyper inflation is like debt. It starts with a slow creep, and all of a sudden out of nowhere, it roars into a giant monster.
Gusdai@reddit
You're both arguing that the crisis wouldn't be that severe so gold could keep value, but also that the dollar becomes worthless and companies are all going bankrupt left and right (and capital markets are therefore collapsing too), while the government can't finance itself. Which is indeed the reality of hyperinflation.
Again, in Weimar Germany, just like in Venezuela, the gold could keep value because there were other countries where gold could be sold. That's why gold was a good hedge. If the dollar collapses, that's a very different situation.
And I'm very aware of the difference between high inflation and hyperinflation. My point is, if there is hyperinflation in the US and the dollar becomes worthless, good luck to everyone but your yellow shiny stuff won't be very useful. And if it's normal inflation, gold might not work either.
About the industrial use of gold, a quick Google search (Statista.com) shows that technology needs were less than 7% of world demand in 2022. So in a world economy collapse (when the rest of the gold collapses) you would have supply vastly above industrial demand (industrial demand would be falling too), while also having existing stocks of gold being sold on the market. How would gold keep its value?
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Gold spot was a low of $1472 in March 2020. Two years later in March of 2022 spot reached $2040, an increase of $568/oz or almost a 40% increase. Not too shabby.
Gusdai@reddit
My source, for those who want to look at it: https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart#:~:text=The%20current%20month%20is%20updated,2023%20is%20%241%2C976.27%20per%20ounce. , and untick the "inflation-adjusted" box.
Gold went up from September 2018 to July 2020. So you're comparing the low point of March 2020 with the high point of March 2022, while between March 2020 and today it has been zigzagging up and down.
Or to put it differently: the chart seems to indicate that if you take two random dates between March 2020 and today, the odds of the price going up between the two aren't much higher than the odds of it having gone down.
InitialJumper@reddit
As soon as you tell these people about the existence of international markets funds/investments, they go quiet.
And if you think the entire world's markets will collapse, well then no one is buying your gold because they want food, water, ammo, etc.
Mothersilverape@reddit
One of the reasons that silver and gold doesn’t lose its value, is because during hyper inflation, the costs of mining go up so much. If it costs a lot more to mine, gold or silver, then the value of the existing gold and silver continues to rise.
Danny-boy6030@reddit
Exactly this.
ridgerunner55@reddit
Ammo is the currency of the new millennium.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I'm afraid you are correct. If the whole system fails, it will be chaos and death. People discount what failure of the agricultural system would do in the wake of a nuclear war. Massive chaotic starvation. Without order, I sure wouldn't give up my weapons for gold. Bullets will have a lot more value than gold coins.
holy_guacamole666@reddit
In the US I see absolutely no point in keeping gold/silver as a prep. If it really gets that bad, precious metals will be worth less than food/water, medical supplies, and bullets. I'd rather put my money into other preps, especially when gold and silver aren't exactly cheap for any real amount.
davidm2232@reddit
You can only store so much food/water and medical supplies before you have to worry about it expiring. Bullets are great, but after you have a few thousand rounds, do you really need more? Gold/silver is a great alternative to a large cash savings. Sure, keep $10k in cash in your safe, but for the other savings, gold and silver are a great hedge against inflation. Gold and silver are for the people that have $100k+ in savings and don't trust the stock market.
BisexualCaveman@reddit
Ammo hoards larger than you need for hunting/defense/practice just became trade goods, not ammo.
davidm2232@reddit
I suppose it depends on the area. I have a few thousand rounds but I am in the minority. Most of my friends, family, and neighbors have tens of thousands. The ammo market is completely saturated so no trade goods unless you went well outside the area.
cmb3248@reddit
It's unbalanced within areas.
The vast majority of people in cities don't have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo.
Personally I wouldn't trade anyone something that has a higher likelihood of being used against me than not.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
You could always trade them your guns and bullets for gold, then they could shoot you and have all of them. Scratching my head on that trade.
Mothersilverape@reddit
All good points and food for thought!
It’s also not just important to be considering what you’re trading, but who you’re trading with. It’s always best to trade with friendlies.
holy_guacamole666@reddit
My thinking is if the US goes through hyperinflation, the global economy is probably in shambles and nobody is going to care about precious metals that have no real use anymore. In war torn countries, or countries with a more unstable economy it might be useful, but I just can't see it being a useful prep in America.
davidm2232@reddit
The dust always settles eventually. I'm planning on my metals to stay in my safe for at least a decade before I can pull them out to buy into whatever new system emerges. I figure I will be comfortable without it, but rich with it.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Having a long term focus instead of a get rich quick scheme, mindset is the key to holding wealth in precious metals.
holy_guacamole666@reddit
If I survive 10 years of societal collapse, then I'll start collecting gold, until then I'll need preps that actually keep me alive.
davidm2232@reddit
And $100k in the bank isn't really going to help any more than $100k in gold sitting in your safe. Silver and gold are NOT the best option for people on a tight budget that are still building up their basic preps.
Mothersilverape@reddit
It’s a funny thing when the metal start to really hyper inflate. It’s when they are 3/4 of their way up at people start to get interested in them.
pants_mcgee@reddit
The USD is the last currency that will see hyperinflation, and if it does we’re well into global collapse.
Hoarding gold and silver as some apocalypse insurance is mostly fantasy thinking. As a financial hedge for more realistic scenarios they’re aren’t terrible, at the very least with some common sense a person won’t lose on that investment.
Mothersilverape@reddit
By storing gold and silver, the person is really storing means of replenishing food, water, and other supplies that will have hyper-inflated in cost along with the hyperinflated costs of producing the metal.
capt-bob@reddit
Plus now he armed everyone else to the teeth and he has all the food, oops!
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I'm investing my money in a home that is going to be defensible. Serious amount of concrete, with fallout shelter. A well constructed fallout shelter will also be a safe room that's quite defensible. Concrete block, with concrete poured in the cavities, reinforced with fiberglass. The safe room will have 2 layers of block, with 2 feet of sand between the block walls. Our strategy will be to wait out the massive wave of death and desperation mayhem. If that never comes, we'll have the ultimate protection should things become so dangerous that you'd be worried about home invasion. I figure maybe 15k in extra construction costs for the safe room. Affordable in my mind and better than 15k in stocks that will be worthless instantly.
okiedokie321@reddit
The wealthy are buying multiple homes as safe houses/rental properties. If one home gets compromised, they run to the next. Others are digging in and creating bunkers under their primary homes.
mjcjb5@reddit
Something to consider, if you are locked down in a safe room and the hoards decide to burn your house, what is the exit plan?
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Something to consider, if I take my wife and small child out of the home, how am I going to defend them outside in the woods? There's no exit plan. I have a problem with how they'd burn a house down that has no wood in it. Are the hoards going to have the same mind, get them in that safe room? As though they know you're in there?
mjcjb5@reddit
I don't have a fool proof plan. If any of the house is combustible, anyone in the safe room will die of smoke inhalation.
There is no place, just safer. A safe room is a very good plan if you can go unnoticed.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Funny, you say you're going to hole up, and people attack it like it's the worst possible plan. Immediately for doing this, you'll be confronted by an angry murderous hoard! Yet not a single one of them has a viable alternative suggestion. Should I give my 11 year old an AR-77 and run with her into the woods, carrying what I can carry? Are our chances better there? Bottom line is there is NO foolproof plan. Yes, if a hoard of dozens of zombies get together and make a plan to get us, they might succeed. But out in the woods, someone can just shoot me and rape my wife and daughter. Not like there will be any on to stop it. My plan is to duck the mass carnage that SHTF would produce. There's no shame in being one of the 90% that die. Some of the best prepared people will die. Besides preparation, you'll also need a good deal of luck.
I'm not putting any wood in the house anyway. Just steel and concrete. No termites, no fire. Makes no sense to me to build a reinforced concrete building and then put a wooden roof on it :).
Pretty_Ear9872@reddit
Surprising the number of people who think holing up is a bad idea. But none of them has a viable plan that’s anywhere near as good. Am I going to leave where I’ve got food, shelter, ammo, supplies to drag my wife and 11 year old out to the woods. For what? There’s no fool proof plan if the worst happens. I don’t hold my plan out as foolproof. And you better hope if the worst happens, you’re close to home.
SomeoneInQld@reddit
just curious - with all that concrete - is the fiberglass going to add any extra reinforcement ?
I am building a house soon and am doing the cement filled concrete blocks and wondering if I should add fiberglass as well.
I am more concerned with bushfire (Australia) and floods.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I would use the fiber. And I'd also use fiberglass rebar, which will never rust out.
SomeoneInQld@reddit
just looked up fiberglass rebar - had never heard of it before.
Looks interesting - especially if we end up near the coast.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
What limits the life of concrete structures is that the steel rebar rusts. Fiberglass really isn't that much more expensive. It's worth it to me :). Trying to build a house that will last 200 years, which is possible with fiberglass rebar.
SomeoneInQld@reddit
I won't be around another 200 years - so as long as the house lasts my lifetime I am happy :) But it would be nice if the house did last a lot longer.
I used to live on the beach as a kid and can remember all the rusted rebar destroying the concrete walkways / old buildings.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I think it would be a selling point, should you decided to sell. Really amazing how competitive it is with steel now.
SomeoneInQld@reddit
I plan on living in that house until I die.
I have been in my current house for nearly 35 years - and will spend my next 'however' many years at the new place - which is why I want to make sure I build it right. I hate moving, did a lot of it when I was younger. It will take me about 5 years I think to build it they way I want to build it.
I will also be doing several things to the house that will make it suitable for what I want to do there - but a lot of people won't like, so it will be very hard to sell.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
You might be surprised. The right person will see it and go *wow* exactly what I wanted :). Our house will be a house built around an amazing kitchen that seats 20 people.
SomeoneInQld@reddit
I want to embed a lot of custom hardware and software into the house - which I think will scare away most people - as the average tradie won't be able to do most 'simple' repairs.
They will also need to be able to understand all the computer and database systems to operate the house.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
You may not get much for that part of it. But the value for the structure itself would still be there. Care to elaborate on that?
SomeoneInQld@reddit
Will DM you
EconomistPlus3522@reddit
If silver because money again you will regret that. Silver is considered more practical money than gold because its not 2k and ounce.
Back in the 20s or 30s gold was 20 bucks an ounce.
Roght now its an inflation hedge.
dracojohn@reddit
Not sure if anyone else posted this but gold and silver would get used simply because people attach value to them and it's a habit we've had for thousands of years. Imagine I have loads of grain and you want some of it , you have two options try and take it ( risking death) or trade but all you have is a crop that won't be ready for months so you give me gold and when your crop is ready I can give you some ( maybe all) of it back for some of that crop. It doesn't have to be gold anything we both agree has value will do ( I may even take your word) but gold is good because if your crop fails I can still trade it with someone else.
Therealmasternater@reddit
I've always tended to think of it as a more transitional hedge against devaluation.
Gold and the dollar have value in good times, neither are likely to have value in bad times. But if we go into bad times and make it out the other side, the dollar might not be so lucky. In that event gold would likely retain some value and be transferrable to whatever form of healthy currency is available at that time.
CdnBacon88@reddit
WEf and digital currency. Own nill and be happy. Thats their plan..
ATPResearch@reddit
A lot of preppers make the mistake of forgetting that there is a lot of room between "everything is normal" and "90% of the population is dead and the survivors roam the wastelands looking for guzzoline" on the SHTF scale. Maybe the internet goes out mid-long term, taking digital payment with it (thatvscenario calls for cash on hand); maybe a global geopolitical upset causes the dollar to fail but other currencies to become ascendant (that scenario is probably the strongest use case for gold).
The real answer imo is to diversify: I own index fund shares, treasury bonds, and silver and gold, and keep a cash stash, and have a month of food stored in my garage, and a bug out bag, and an ammo stockpile, and and and... no one strategy or stockpile will prepare your for everything.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
If you're prepared for the worse case, you're prepared for all of them as a practical matter.
ATPResearch@reddit
I disagree, I think various scenarios differ qualitatively, not just quantitatively. There are situations when defensive use of firearms will help, and other situations when it will make things much worse, for example.
DrewWhoKnew@reddit
Depending on how bad it gets, food is pretty much collectable from the environment if you have the skillset, and weapons (once you have them) are relatively durable. Ammunition, though... HIGHLY tradeable. As well as highly desirable consumables that can't just be collected easily, like tobacco and alcohol.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I think food collection from the environment is hard to take for granted unless you're somewhere that there's not many people. In the great depression, deer were hunted down to a very small population. It takes a lot of acreage per person to support hunter gatherers, and you will burn a lot of energy doing that. So yes, if you're way out in the boondocks, it's a possibility. Hunting and gathering could be risky from a security standpoint if you're in an area near a city and have hungry people streaming from the city looking for food. All in all, I prefer to stock it before there's an event, to duck the initial chaos while the unprepared die off and kill each other. Rules will change when there are a lot less people.
DrewWhoKnew@reddit
Yeah... I live in New Hampshire. It's like Maine, but not as scary.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
In Venezuela - people who buy things with precious metals generally have to trade the silver for 40% less than the international market value for scrap metals. That's in addition to the bad deal that people in the US get where they buy silver and gold coins at a higher price than the scrap metal value. That's if they don't get mugged.
I wouldn't call that a good investment.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
If you sell an ounce of gold, you can buy quite a few survival supplies with that money. Once SHTF, do you really think you'll get as much? If you don't, wouldn't it be better to be stocked to the gills with supplies before you worry about having gold to trade?
Kookyyu@reddit
Imho canned, preserved foods or quality alcohol will have a lot more value than gold or silver.
Just sayin'.
El_Maton_de_Plata@reddit
Food weapons and bullets... for the unprepared
CdnBacon88@reddit
I say usless unless it goes to manfacturing. Trade coins for what? Worthsess dollars. Cant eat it and it wont burn. Too heavy in pocket. Wanna trade something? Booze n smokes..
Mothersilverape@reddit
I guess it depends what a person values. I value precious metals, but not so much booze and smokes.
CdnBacon88@reddit
I dont smoke or drink either. Gold and silver only good if banking comes back after shtf.
Mothersilverape@reddit
I don’t expect baking to come back in the same way that we see it today.
If anything is going to change radically over the next decade, it’s probably the political, educational, medical and the banking system.
ToastedWhiteOakCask@reddit
Gold and silver will have value on the other side of shtf. What ever rebuilds afterward will still value metals. It’s a way of transferring wealth from one system to the other
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Yeah, but if there's only 10% of the people left, there would effectively be 10x the gold and silver now. How much value and when does the other side come around?
IntroductionWise8031@reddit
population will drop by a maximum of 50% and will start to increase quite quickl
botanica_arcana@reddit
“Quick” being 20 years or so for the new crop of humans to ripen.
IntroductionWise8031@reddit
Yes, only 15-20 years is quite fast, looking back over the centuries, whatever happens now will be remembered as another tragedy in a long line of tragedies that we have endured and from which we have rebuilt.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
From a species perspective, yes. But the bottom line is we are all concerned about our own skin above everything else.
therealharambe420@reddit
Yeah but the likelihood of a 90% die off is pretty low. 99% of disasters that people prep for will not result in a 90% die off.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I think you're probably right about that, but if there's all out nuclear war, that's would bring the maximum, whatever that is.
therealharambe420@reddit
There are some disasters where gold is less useful but since we aren't psychic I'll cover all my bases.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Nothing more uncertain than the future.
thiccboihiker@reddit
Those in the business of selling precious metals often advocate for their enduring value in times of economic collapse. Yet, we must critically examine this claim in the context of a system collapse so profound that conventional currency becomes obsolete. At that juncture, would gold and silver truly serve any practical purpose?
The intrinsic value of gold and silver hinges on the existence of a market — a collective agreement on their worth, underpinned by societal structures that are likely to unravel in the event of a collapse. Without these frameworks, the significance of gold and silver is not a given; it becomes a speculative matter entirely contingent on the emergence of a new system that recognizes them as a standard of exchange.
Consider a hypothetical scenario where a local community reverts to a subsistence economy, predicated on the exchange of agricultural produce and livestock for essential services. In such a microcosm, the likelihood of gold or silver being adopted as a medium of exchange is minimal. The logistical impracticality of dividing a gold bar or an ounce of silver into meaningful denominations for daily transactions further complicates their use.
The history of commerce in scarcity suggests a return to barter and service exchange, where value is directly linked to utility and immediate need. In such an economy, trust and credit become as vital as the goods exchanged, mirroring the seasonal credit systems of the past where agricultural yields dictated the ebb and flow of trade.
Municipalities might even introduce their own currency, not out of nostalgia for the past but for the sake of practicality. A currency that's accessible and equitable in distribution would facilitate trade far more effectively than a precious metal economy, which, by its very nature, is exclusionary.
In an emergency, the objective shifts from wealth accumulation to the procurement of necessities for survival. The store of value represented by gold or silver does not equate to immediate utility when the primary goal is sustenance, not investment.
Moreover, the existing reserves of precious metals are largely out of circulation, held in bank vaults or as investment assets. Establishing their worth requires a level of centralized authority and consensus on value — conditions unlikely to be met in the chaotic aftermath of societal breakdown.
Therefore, in a hypothetical world stripped of modern technology, where the traditional power structures have disintegrated, it is reasonable to assume a reversion to the most basic economic system: barter. In such a world, precious metals may find occasional use in practical applications — perhaps in artisanal crafts or indeed dental work — but as a cornerstone of the new economic order, their role seems improbable.
It's prudent, then, for those preparing for such eventualities to consider the adaptability and utility of their assets. Community building and the capacity to meet tangible needs will likely define value and leadership in a post-collapse society, not the accumulation of commodities whose worth is subject to the very systems that have faltered.
In the recalibrated society that emerges from the collapse, the allocation of resources like large homes or expanses of land may evolve into a matter of communal consensus rather than a financial transaction. Rather than trading gold for acreage, a community might collectively decide to bestow such assets upon individuals who have demonstrated significant leadership or possess the requisite knowledge to manage and maximize these resources for the common good. The concept of ownership could shift from individual entitlement to a stewardship model where the caretakers of land are those who can cultivate it most effectively, providing food and sanctuary for a greater number.
Similarly, material possessions such as vehicles may be repurposed to serve communal needs. The community could, for instance, retrofit vehicles for agricultural use, transportation of supplies, or other practical functions that benefit all, instead of an individual acquiring a coveted 4x4 through personal wealth. In this environment, the notion of property and ownership would be inextricably linked to community service and utility, not the individual's purchasing power. The value proposition is fundamentally altered — it's not about what you can buy, but what you can contribute and how resources can be leveraged for the well-being of the community at large.
Jammer521@reddit
It would depend on the severity of the SHTF situation, obviously no one is going to trade you food, or water if it's scare and they can't use the gold/silver to buy more, but if it like say Venezuela where the shtf is only in one country or a US state, then sure I would trade in that scenario, but I'm charging a premium for sure
77765876543@reddit
I sold all my silver last week. I bought more food for my food storage, gun parts, bullets to reload 45, and ammo. I used to be a silver freak. Don’t get sucked into that horse shit. It’s everywhere. You can buy it any time. It’s not running out. I sat on it for years. What a waste.
Head-Thought-5679@reddit
I’m gonna eat my gold and silver
ResponsibleBank1387@reddit
I think it's a nice fable.
When have any of you tried to sell your gold lately?
Where?
what was the actual cash you got for it?
For what? collector coin? ring? what?
When the economy is decent and ShasnotHTF and can't get decent price when selling gold, then when SHTF gold will be less than worthless.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Don’t be silly. People who hold gold and silver don’t sell it when the masses are ignorant to its real worth.
ResponsibleBank1387@reddit
The same places that say BUYBUYBUYBUY won't buy, they only sell to the rubes.
Shuggy539@reddit
Look at history for your answers. Rare metals have always been a medium of exchange, for many thousands of years.
We ain't that special.
Mothersilverape@reddit
It amazes me that people who think their credit cards and debit cards are so valuable when they both represent nothing more than digital debt.
fullgrownidiot1@reddit
I justcant see your local corner store taking gold and silver... half the time if there is not a machine to count out the change, people struggle.. I've also seen so many businesses going tap/ card only, i cant picture people with scales measuring out your purchase.
Mothersilverape@reddit
I’m pretty sure that 100 years ago people would’ve laughed a man with a plastic credit card out of a business establishment. Times change. Wealth transfers from one hand to another.
So many people today don’t even understand what real wealth is. They only understand debt.
PervyNonsense@reddit
Silver makes sense, not gold, though. Silver is antibacterial, foodsafe, excellent solder, with the highest thermal and electrical conductivity of any element.
There's a lot of it but its current price is way low... unless you can mint an ounce of any metal from a ton or more of rock you need to pull out of the ground, crush, then basically melt.... for 30 bucks or less? That's what a pizza costs these days
No way is an ounce of pure silver worth the same as one takeout dinner... I mean, technically it is, but when people actually do the math, it's very obviously not worth it
Mothersilverape@reddit
Silver, it does seem to have many uses in a high-tech world, desired by most of the developing nations of the world.
ConclusionMaleficent@reddit
Gold and silver still remained mediums of exchange after the collapse of the Roman Empire. I don't see that changing
Mothersilverape@reddit
Trust fund families, and a very wealthy, as well as central banks, no to be accumulating, silver and gold.
Ronski_Lee@reddit
Initially I think it will be barter. But over time when things reestablish gold and silver will be money.
belzebuth999@reddit
People generally can't tell the difference between stainless steel and galvanized steel or even aluminum... how the fuck are they going to tell the difference between brass and gold or silver and pewter, or any degrees of purity or alloys? People are morons, let's hope most of the smart ones survive.
Mothersilverape@reddit
I guess some people are in for a fairly steep education curve.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
They have no reason to care until they’re forced to.
belzebuth999@reddit
It will be too late by then.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
It’s not rocket science, but yes I agree only the strong would survive.
don51181@reddit
How many people really know the value of a piece of gold or silver? How many can actually tell if it is real or what level of purity it is? This is why I think people would probably avoid it.
They would be more likely to trade goods and services. When I went to the middle east there was some very pure gold. I never bought it because I could not tell if it is real so it was worthless to me.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Most Stackers, and precious metals dealers routinely do these sort of tests all the time.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Not difficult at all to assemble the means to test precious metals. If people are forced to, they can come up to speed rather quickly.
lizards_sk8boards@reddit
Gold and silver would be for a short time as with money and then they lose their value according to scenario. They're good for economical collapse and you have to pawn them.
I think stockpiling on some copper for barter and trade in the post-apocalypse would make sense. There are copper bullions of an ounce or copper bricks of a pound on Amazon.
The reason I think copper would make an adequate barter prep instead of gold and silver would be if there's a metal melter and other manufacturers of metal products that survived the apocalypse and has the equipment or resources to melt to manufacture he may be able to manufacture things or create copper wiring for motors with it and exchange it for whatever he may have, food or weapons etc.
Hairy-Situation4198@reddit
I have copper and silver. Both hold value and have applicable uses outside as money.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Both are going to be very essential in a high tech future where the world is headed.
comcain2@reddit
I completely agree. Copper is a very useful material. I would get a spool of it, insulated. Then aftert he you can set up a telephone or telegraph. I could do that with the stuff in my electrical lab easily.
therealharambe420@reddit
OP do you save or invest for retirement at all?
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Of course, one must diversity. My #1 investment is in my health, without which nothing else matters.
Mothersilverape@reddit
Strangely, I to think that health and family should be of the highest priority. I see stacking silver as a means to that end.
If I hope to be able to buy the best medical treatments, and have the freedom to choose the ones I want, and I want to be able to help my family, I’m going to need silver in the high tech future.
therealharambe420@reddit
Do you save and invest money for your retirement? If so putting some of that money into gold and silver as a hedge against uncertainty is not a bad idea. There are more disasters where it's good to have gold then there are not.
AlexRyang@reddit
A full blown TEOTWAWKI event is highly unlikely. Even in a major collapse, with how many levels of government there are, it is very likely that some form of government would survive. Look at even when Rome collapsed, governments in Great Britain, Spain, France, etc. had survived and evolved.
That said, gold is a bit of a waffle spot for me, because it is heavy and the current value is very high, so breaking it down for practical use is challenging.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
TEOTWAWKI means nuclear war. Any nuclear war becomes an all out nuclear war. Otherwise, things recover pretty quickly. We've more to worry about our own government than worry about non nuclear TEOTWAWKI.
Mothersilverape@reddit
If someone wants to stop yet another military missile from being created, they just have to buy up 500 ounces of silver, and that’s one less missile that can be created and launched by the military!
comcain2@reddit
I suspect we're going to test your hypothesis.
Russia is practical. If the set off a nuke at a strategic point, I don't Biden would expand the conflict. That's a no-win scenario for Putin.
I do note that the USA has set off its first nuke test since 1992. I expect Russia to do the same. Those nukes have been sitting around for 40+ years and they definitely do not age well.
I also note Putin has pulled out of CTBT (no testing) treaty quite recently.
pants_mcgee@reddit
The US hasn’t tested any nukes since 1992, nuclear weapons research is done almost exclusively in labs. The recent test in Nevada was with conventional explosives and radioactive tracers.
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
Actually I think the greatest risk comes from the collapse of Russia and the power struggle within. Many very crazy people with a twisted sense of duty in that society.
davidm2232@reddit
I suppose that's debatable. But I would argue a major solar storm causing mass death would also be a TEOTWAWKI
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
That’s where silver shines.
snuffy_bodacious@reddit
For non-SHTF scenarios...
Both the stock market and real estate outperform gold by a wide margin. Indeed, the value of gold is driven by fear.
For a SHTF scenario...
You can't eat gold. A handful of 22LR shells (~$5-10 in today's market) is worth more than a handful of gold (~$10,000 in today's market).
Note, a total collapse of the stock and real estate markets is the results of a SHTF scenario in play.
Either way, buying gold is stupid.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
It’s clear that for modern times, you don’t really have a solid understanding of gold. Gold isn’t about ‘performance’ because it’s nothing like stocks or real estate, gold isn’t an investment, it’s insurance.
snuffy_bodacious@reddit
Insurance against what?
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Collapse of paper or digital investments, for one. The sweet spot for gold holdings in a portfolio are traditionally 5-10%, although some institutions say 20%. Central banks around the world have been ramping up their gold holdings like we’ve never seen before, by the ton. What do they know that we don’t?
snuffy_bodacious@reddit
A collapse of paper/digital investments would be the end of social order.
...at which, ammo is extremely valuable, but gold is worthless.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Gold being worthless has never been the case. Gold would carry wealth into the new economy.
snuffy_bodacious@reddit
This really isn't true.
Throughout human history, gold has been a means of exchange between extremely wealthy entities, usually kings or banks. Commoners very rarely traded gold.
Today, you can't just walk into Walmart and buy things with gold.
Likewise, when supply chains are severely disrupted and food is suddenly scarce, nobody is going to care about pretty metal. They will, however, do almost anything to fill their bellies. $10 of rice in today's market would be worth more than $10,000 of gold.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Of course it’s difficult using gold for a purchase at Walmart but I can walk into my LCS and get gold spot price or better, of course it‘s only a commodity not money. It works for impoverished citizens in Venezuela, they‘re reportedly shaving bits of gold to pay for everything from haircuts to meals because their currency has hyper inflated. I’m wondering why central banks are currently buying tons of the yellow metal?
snuffy_bodacious@reddit
I hear this reference to Venezuela a lot, and I would be interested to see concrete examples.
The last time I was in a poor country (Iraq), a haircut cost me 500 dinars (~50 cents). I would throw them $5 as a generous tip.
At ~$2000 an ounce, how much gold is $1? (Almost nothing.) Dividing gold up into units that small isn't practical.
What most Venezuelans are doing when they can't spend their local currency is using USD because it is far more practical than gold.
Now of course this leads to the next question: what if the USD fails? That's where gold pays off, right?
Because the USD is directly tied to 55‐60% of global trade, and indirectly tied to another 30-35% of global trade, a collapse of the dollar would be the SHTF. Global order will have completely collapsed, and once again, we are back to talking about how everyone remains preoccupied with simply feeding themselves. Since you can't eat gold, it has no value.
KaganM@reddit
Argentina. About 20% down he goes into gold and silver.
https://james4america.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/surviving-an-economic-collapse-a-prespective-from-ne-who-went-through-it-in-argentina/
jhenryscott@reddit
It becomes almost worthless unless you know how to solder nice new circuits, then it’ll be helpful in running your new DC lines
Robotic_space_camel@reddit
Well firstly, there is a massive gap of possible scenarios between “Society survives, the economy is restored and everyone’s digital money still survives” and “Humanity descends into barbarism, blood & bullets are the only exchange medium.” For some of those in-between scenarios, having some amount of precious metal could be useful.
In any situation where digital currency is unavailable and paper money is questionable (e.g. hyper-inflation, political upheaval), then the medium of exchange is going to revert back to bartering goods and services for other goods and services. As long as that situation exists and people are able to live relatively stable lives, then there’s going to be a market for precious metals, and these will therefore still hold their value. In the situation that these metals still hold their value, they’re also a very practical way to store buying power: they don’t age or spoil, their value doesn’t drop with physical damage, they’re compact and easy to carry or hide, and it’s value is immediately recognizable and understood by most people. If the world is truly over, then it won’t help you much. Anything better than that, and it definitely has its uses.
JoeCensored@reddit
If it's survival mode with no end in sight, you can't eat gold. You won't be able to spend it.
For a temporary or local scenario, people will absolutely want gold and silver, but most won't know how to value it. So they aren't going to trade for it without getting an obviously fantastic deal.
amoult20@reddit
You can always throw it at people. Or use it to hold doors open, or stop papers from frying away
less_butter@reddit
You realize that there are scenarios between "everything is great" and "complete destruction of the world's civilization", right?
Just because a certain investment/prep might be worthless if the world stops turning that doesn't mean it's worthless in situations that are bad but not a complete global apocalypse.
scott_majority@reddit
I get it, but it's hard to imagine a scenario where money ends up being worthless, but precious metals are valued.
If there is no more government and money has no value, precious metals will be worth their weight in rocks.
If the government is still operating, money will still be viable, and be easier to work with and carry.
Seems useless to me. I'm sure there is some unlikely scenario where they would have some value, but it seems like a stretch.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Money (US) was precious metals backing paper, gold up until around 1933 and silver until 1965.
pants_mcgee@reddit
The USD was backed by gold until 1971. 1933 is when regular people were banned from converting USD to gold/silver.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Thats correct, not enough coffee in my veins. Gold was banned in ‘33 although I believe the redemption period for silver certificates ended in June 1968.
EconomistPlus3522@reddit
Venezuela, argentina, zimbabwe, weimer republic all examples where silver and gold was more valuable and good to trade or get put of dodge than the worthless fiat paper money.
Hyperinflation is what happens when people lose trust in fiat money. That means its worthless.
dan_dares@reddit
The reason why gold is valued there, is because there is a wider market that would buy (the rest of the world)
Many of the SHTF scenarios where America hits hyper inflation, you're not going tp have much 'world market' left to buy.
Just a thought, and i'm not even American.
Gusdai@reddit
Gold remained valuable in these countries because there were other countries to buy the gold. If the dollar collapses, together with all the other currencies that worked with it in the financial system, and everyone in the US and in these countries are now selling their gold, who's going to buy it? Even in Saudi Arabia there are only so many people who want to gold-plate their car.
Also these collapsed countries didn't really have a financial system, which is why gold was a thing (together with buying dollars by the way). If you buy stocks you have a hedge against inflation already. Stocks in companies that actually produce valuable stuff, and unlike mostly-useless yellow metal (obviously not completely useless, but with limited uses, so the needs are already met).
apoletta@reddit
You can add Haiti.
DiggerWick@reddit
Food, water, safety, hygiene, medical supplies. If you can afford to stack gold/silver after that, sure. It’s beneficial. Otherwise all of the aforementioned will be worth their weight in gold.
40isthenewconfused@reddit
Few comments on this.
1 it’s a hedge not something someone should put all their money in.
2 people will always need a store of value to exchange services and goods. Gold and silver have done that since well forever?
3 having a bit would protect in a financial collapse/hyper inflation.
RedShirtGuy1@reddit
It would likely be used as a means of exchange for large items. Initially we will likely see quite a bit of barter. Gold and silver won't become money as we think of it until it becomes paid out in wages.
It will, however, take quite a bit of time for things to settle down.
Usagi_Shinobi@reddit
Gold and silver are known precious metals. People will use them for trade, because they are convenient. Things will simply be priced in gold and silver, rather than dollars. Even in a grid down scenario, that value will remain.
KAYD3N1@reddit
It becomes useless. Assuming you’re talking a total collapse. Nothing will be worth more than antibiotics if that happens.
PyrPawsandDewClaws@reddit
I’ll probably get downvoted, but I’ve seen posts like this many times on this sub, with as many different takes…. But few people forget to mention the key issue, which is that bartering in a SHTF situation will depend heavily on what others value. Some might think physical gold or silver is a worthless prep because you can’t eat or drink it, or hunt with it. Others might see value in it if they think the economy might recover in the relatively near future.
Historically, cultures once bartered using mollusk shells (cowrie shells), and wampum beads. They also used gold and jewelry at one point. The idea that gold or silver could be traded for goods and services in a SHTF scenario is not out of the realm of possibility; it’s been used in the past and is not a new concept.
Those among us who think bartering with gold or silver is dumb need to remember that the goal of bartering is to give away something you don’t need/want, or can’t use, with the intent of gaining something you do need - that’s the best transaction one can hope to make. I think timing would play a big part in bartering success with precious metals, with successful trades taking place shortly after the Event, rather than months later when they are desperate for antibiotics, food, or hunting supplies…
That said, I would never place a heavy emphasis on stockpiling gold or silver; it should be one of your last preps. Collapse to the point of bartering is not a likely scenario.
pomdudes@reddit
Think of it this way: you have bread but no butter. Another guy already HAS bread and has plenty of butter and but wants some blueberry jam, which you do not have. But you have gold, which you can trade to him for his butter. Now he can trade that gold to the jam guy OR if jam guy doesn’t want gold but wants needs jars, butter guy can trade the gold to the jar girl so he can trade jars for jam.
Gold and silver will serve as a vehicle to convey value across all commerce.
thomas533@reddit
There were stores before there was electricity.
Civilization existed long before there was a grid.
Worthless, no. Worth less, yes.
TheRealBobbyJones@reddit
Not modern civilization. High speed communications essentially guided the development of the USA. If high speed communication were to disappear most stores would rapidly lose stock and subsequently close their doors. Cities would be uncoordinated and undersupplied and unpoliced. This would very rapidly result in the fall of cities. Without cities or central stores of power civilization would disappear. Now of course I personally doubt power grids and communications would ever be down long enough to allow for this to happen. Especially as we progress to a future full of microgrids and off-grid structures. New digital modes and ALE make radio comms pretty good for establishing regular communications.
thomas533@reddit
I am old enough to remember before high speed communications, so I have a really hard time accepting that the US was built on that. Really, we have only had that for ~30ish years.
Sure, we have a lot of modern infrastructure that is build on high speed communication networks that if they went away tomorrow, it would be a big shock and quite chaotic. But there are enough of us old crotchety engineers left that were born in the 50's, 60's, and 70's that we could get things back up and running in a matter of months. Things might be a bit bumpy for a while, but I think things could adjust.
And I agree.
TheRealBobbyJones@reddit
High speed communications have existed since the railroad was invented. Ignoring that telegraphs are still high speed. Our country was developed with the understanding that if you wanted to send a message to someone in another state you would be able to do so reliably. There are only roughly 70 years in the history of our nation where that wasn't the case.
thomas533@reddit
I would classify transport differently than communications. And I think we are getting pretty off topic considering the comment I was replying to was talking about how civilization would end without an electric grid to power grocery stores.
Can we both agree that rail roads and telegraphs could work without an electrical grid? Or if not wired telegraphs, than some sort of radio telegraph?
mongolnlloyd@reddit
I’m shred I’d be more interested in food and water and maybe guns and ammo and meds
apathetic_duck@reddit
Silver will still be popular in case of werewolves.
Mudhen_282@reddit
In a grid down you’ll be back to mainly a barter economy. Gold & Silver might have a limited use as a non-perishable store of value. If you have mainly Gold & Silver but your neighbor has his assets in Food, Ammo & other necessities who’s going to last longer?
SoHTyte@reddit
Freeze dried Food preps 50% off for Veterans Day sale at the moment. Ammo prices starting to creep back up now as well. You can find New handguns like a G3C 9mm for $185 if one doesn't have any guns. Be and stayed prepared!
kc3svj@reddit
Nothing happens to it, other than maybe you find people willing to accept it in exchange for something you want.
tianavitoli@reddit
i mean, if you're only using your imagination as a reference for what to prepare for, you're probably gonna find yourself underwhelmed.
NiccoR333@reddit
I would pretty much only trade for gold/silver or goods in a complete SHTF scenario. Food/weapons/bullets are def a good store of value. But carrying that much “goods” is not always possible and the chances someone wants what you have and you want exactly what they have is unlikely…. So some sort of currency, Only 18% of transactions are in cash and I’ll bet 60% of that or more is money laundering…. So… there is no other form of currency than gold or silver, or the previous few cash dollars someone might have
uniquename110100100@reddit
Supplies and labor are the only real currencies. Metals are useless if they can't be turned into tools.
RearAdmiralP@reddit
When a currency collapses, people don't stop using currency altogether. They just switch to using different currencies that still have value.
I live in a little country with its own currency. It's pretty common for banks here to offer savings accounts in other currencies besides the national currency. I have some savings in Swiss Francs and British Pounds. I also keep some cash from bordering countries in the safe at home. The idea is that if the local currency collapses, I have some money in a currency that (hopefully) still has value.
While I don't own any, but I can see gold and silver serving a similar purpose. If the local currency collapses-- one can trade gold and silver for a currency that still has value.
So, while some people might be planning to pay at the local store with gold or silver, they're probably wrong. If they do end up needing to use it, they're more likely to trade their gold or silver for some kind of money that is widely accepted and has value, and they'll use that money to buy stuff.
biteme182@reddit
I have a bartering box in my preps. It has those $2 bottles of liquor, coffee, coffee filters, duct tape, some extra first aid things, cheap flash lights, batteries ect. It's stuff that I am not counting in my preps, and is put a side specifically to be traded.
NwAmH@reddit
Ammo will be worth more. I don’t see anybody in all those Apocalypse, zombie, or survival movies, talking about gold or silver. It’s either med supplies or ammo, last time I checked, we’re not eating those precious metals.
NunyaJim@reddit
If I had to guess the .22 shell will be the new dollar for a fair bit, but the value of precious metals isn't something people are oblivious of either. Sure your average person trying to survive could give a rats hairy lower abdomen about your 1 oz maple leaf, but there's a fella out there that gets a gleam in his eye when something shiny comes out of a pocket, and he isn't worried about where tomorrow's unlabeled can of mystery vegetables is coming from. Don't neglect obvious areas of preparation, but if you're sitting ok and want some bargaining power that doesn't deteriorate you could do worse than some junk silver and even a few gold perhaps.
baadbee@reddit
In a true total collapse scenario the things of value will be weapons, tools, medicine and concentrated food. There won't be a whole lot of trade going on. All preppers should read the book "Dies the Fire", it's a bit goofy and fantastical, but the author gave a lot of thought to what a collapse would look like.
flower-power-123@reddit
You need to start by describing what you mean by a SHTF scenario. I think that in the near future the developed west may see a situation like is currently hitting Turkey. The inflation rate is currently 59% per year. Turkey is currently a popular tourist destination due to the low prices. There are many definitions of hyperinflation. The popular definition is 50% per MONTH. The one I like is 100% per year. Is this what you mean by SHTF? I should note that Gold is bought and sold in Turkey every day. There doesn't seem to be a rush into Gold.
In South Africa the system is breaking down. People live in walled enclaves with vast private security forces as large as armies. Electricity is on for a few hours a day and the water runs only occasionally in the pipes. Guess what? You can still buy and sell gold in South Africa.
Can you point to a time or a place when conditions where such that gold didn't trade at all?
The type of crisis that I am preparing for is a period of hyperinflation in the United States. I think that this will be a short ( 6 months to a year) period of instability like has happened so many time in Latin America, followed by a new equilibrium. People will not turn into feral animals.
If you have Gold ( silver is an industrial metal ) hang on to it. It will be useful after hyperinflation.
smokeyphil@reddit
Not a whole lot i guess you can throw your shiny rocks at people though they are pretty dense.
Elegant-Isopod-4549@reddit
We’ll be trading potatoes and beans instead of gold and silver…
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
I think there’s going to be a lot of taking before there’s trading.
proscriptus@reddit
You know what's dirt cheap, easy to store, and will be worth a fortune after a year or two? Salt.
rulesbite@reddit
My ammo, guns, and food taste better then your gold and silver.
TheDreadnought75@reddit
People will go around trying to trade their little Gould and culver coins for food, ammo, and other essentials… and then starve to death.
F350Gord@reddit
Staples like, salt pepper, flour, rice, dried beans etc etc
woppawoppawoppa@reddit
I will carry it out to my bug out location and take “I told ya so” pictures and post them here.
born2rock4life@reddit
I think they would store value as they have for centuries as empire after empire has used and valued them.
However, it's important to remember in many such scenarios shelves/stores may go empty, and at which point any money/metal that may have helped you, your family, etc. would have been better utilized to buy agricultural capable land/green houses/ solar/batteries/well [water]/chickens/livestock, etc. as basic human needs should be self-sustaining long before gold/silver seems practical in such scenario, as it won't serve those needs and the value of such inelastic commodities may not fair nearly as well despite inflation relative to fiat currency
NightOnFuckMountain@reddit
We use it to make grillz. He who has the biggest grillz, has the most power.
IM_GO_SCHLEEP@reddit
Depending on how bad things get; even precious metals will be worth no more than fiat paper money.
OP is correct in stating that weapons/ammo, food/water, and especially trade skills such as first aide/ building and repair will be the most valuable commodities.
But above only applies if the situation gets to that point. We’ve seen glimpses of it during covid with the meme of no toilet paper, and no baby food; but take a look at how bad Chicago got for the remaining few Walmarts when they closed some stores.
BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit
Dismissing 10,000 years of human civilization isn't a great place to start your analysis!
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
That's precisely what "no grid" does... dismisses civilization.
AdditionalAd9794@reddit
I think it is for post SHTF. Throughout history countries and empires have collapsed. But in the aftermath of whatever emerges, the value of gold always remains.
When the US collapses, unless it is a full bolshevik communist takeover, gold will have its value in the new government and economy
MovingTargetPractice@reddit
IMO the only precious metal worth consideration for prep is coils or romex copper electrical wire
Gratuitous_Insolence@reddit
After things settle down a bit is where gold and silver come back into play.
stephenph@reddit
If the banks collapse then at some point a new currency will arise, the gold and silver will probably be able to be exchanged for that currency.
You are not going to be shaving off a couple grams of silver for a loaf of bread
Tight-String5829@reddit
Gold and silver are a store of value. They are not valuable in a SHTF scenario however, they will be in the recovery period. Even in that major of a SHTF scenario, some sort of rebuilding or reforming of some level of society will form eventually. Humans are communal and always form groups even if those groups are tribes or city states. They share labor and knowledge to progress the whole. In that level of rebuilding, gold and silver will hold some sort of value. Either intrinsically, or for electronics. Human civilization has suffered massively throughout history and even after events like the black death, intrinsic metals eventually recovered their value. Unlike most preps, they can't go bad or expire. Just FYI, gold and Silver are awful financial investments. Its more apt to think of them as a store of value like insurance. Just my opinion. Although most people wont value gold or silver in a SHTF scenario, a well stocked prepper may except these metals in some sort of exchange if you really need something with the idea that the these metals will hold some value in the future.
KiplingRudy@reddit
Trade will include: long shelf life food, alcohol, antibiotics, bullets, tobacco, antidepressants, seeds, solar cells, batteries, lamps, lamp oil, firewood, birth control!!!!
comp21@reddit
Bitcoin > USD > gold/silver > copper/lead
I'm buying all those to hedge... They're in decending order of how bad things get.
letsberealalistc@reddit
Food is the new currency
temporalwanderer@reddit
Price curve inverts vs lead and brass...
2020blowsdik@reddit
Look at Venezuela as a recent example of a financial SHTF scenario
TheRealDebaser@reddit
They are still gonna cost Reddit Coins
harbourhunter@reddit
It’s only useful post-collapse, not during
FloridaMan69ingurmom@reddit
I often wonder this. I guess it depends on many complex circumstances and scenarios. IMO I find ammunition, basic medicine/vitamins and antibiotics having way more value in bartering and in general just having than gold or silver, wtf am I gonna do with a gold chain if my loved one needs an antibiotic for an ear infection or something like that? I had a nasty ear infection from work once and it was scary how fast the pain progressed over night.
Pretty_Ear9872@reddit
It gets that bad, people will be dying from all sorts of things. Any injury is serious. Just the disruption in meds will kill a tremendous number of people.
FloridaMan69ingurmom@reddit
Yea that’s why I said it depends on the scenarios and many factors. I just meant to me personally assuming you have a decent amount of water and food that medicine will probably be more valuable than gold or silver
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
That’s why I’d have both.
FloridaMan69ingurmom@reddit
Obviously that’d be the best choice
Mrz0mb1e@reddit
Unless it’s a short term shtf like natural disaster no one is gonna trade food for a yellow peice of metal
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
I would.
xXJA88AXx@reddit
I've never really seen the value of gold or silver. You can't fill a belly, treat a wound or start a motor with them, specially if the person that can doesn't want them.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
The gold and silver I stacked from a young age as a numismatist really helped me when I was a poor, hungry college student living out of state in the early 1980’s. I had no trouble finding a buyer. Wish I really could have hodl’d but that‘s the way it goes.
sunshinebread52@reddit
If SHTF scenario that you imagine happens, after you eat your dog and cats, someone will come along and eat your children. If there is no Government there is no money or private property. Government is money by definition. Big Government means powerful money. Small Government is a corrupt South American Dictatorship with 5000% inflation.
M-Ctogether@reddit
Colloidal Silver has many uses https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/colloidal-silver
shermanstorch@reddit
I can’t tell if this post is sarcastic or not.
M-Ctogether@reddit
Not sarcastic. Silver has many uses, that's why it has value.
shermanstorch@reddit
You know your link says that colloidal silver has no positive health effects and a lot of negative side effects, right?
M-Ctogether@reddit
No uses and harmful like ivermectin? I'm not a doctor and I don't give medical advice.
ConcludedBakery@reddit
Even the people selling you gold don't think it's better than USD/Euros.
How to we know? Because they accept your "worthless paper" for their "precious metals". If your currency was inferior to gold, they wouldn't make the trade.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
The dollar is still the currency of exchange, even though it continues to lose buying power. Gold is simply a valuable commodity. Bullion vendors are in business to earn income, and most do very well selling the commodity gold. They could pay the bills in gold, but they‘d first have to convert gold to fiat, a bit redundant. Besides, we don‘t really know how much personal gold they’re sitting on.
ThisIsAbuse@reddit
"No grid - no civilization".
Ya no. We lived for a very long time - including a hundred years in the USA without a grid. Money, Gold and Silver functioned.
romanswinter@reddit
Might be the dumbest thing I have ever read, that Gold and Silver would be worthless. There hasn't been a moment in history where Gold and Silver were ever useless or not valued.
Spiritual_River0@reddit
Everyone wants to know about shtf, but what about just living in shit. I think that scenario is much more likely. Living in a regression. People getting poorer and poorer for generations as our wealth is fleeced from us by interest rates and massive national debt, slowly. In that case metals are better than cash, but you still need some cash to transact.
MaxwellHillbilly@reddit
Right?
Hell I assume it'll be 1 of 3 things...(or all 3) A) The next pandemic will be s lot worse.
B) because the magnetosphere has gotten thinner and thinner there's going to be issues with a CME and if the power grid and mini electronic items are affected it's going to be the Stone age.
C)the fact that the poles are migrating quite quickly we will eventually have a quick "Earth tilt" which is going to cause so much havoc that I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to walk into a silver mine if I damn well please anytime I want and it's all going to be worthless...
M-Ctogether@reddit
Somebody, somewhere will still think these metals are valuable. Just like people think cash has value today.
CogglesMcGreuder@reddit
I disagree… I hear a lot that gold and silver won’t be worth anything in a real collapse, my perspective is this, humans have coveted gold and silver since the literal dawn of humanity. I see no reason why that would ever stop. Presumably, the love of shiny metals is so deeply encoded in our DNA that I don’t see that drying up, even in a SHTF situation. Even in such a situation, market principles still apply. A pure barter/ trade situation is extremely difficult to maintain which is why a medium of exchange originated in the first place.
ItsDeadmouse@reddit
People should consider that gold/silver becomes an underground currency once everything goes digital. How are you planning to pay someone to fake your vax shot next time around lol
TheBreakfastSkipper@reddit (OP)
I'll probably pass on the next one. But I'm an RN, and I saw a lot of death with COVID, which prompted me to take the first vaccine. So I guess my resolve isn't perfect :).
bgplsa@reddit
I think the basic idea is things like precious metals are valuable when there’s a functioning economy creating value even if parts of it are suffering. Even indigenous Americans before Columbus exchanged currency in the form of beads, shells, feathers, etc. even without a centralized government backing them though there are some differences in how they were used compared to how we think of money. SHTF implies to me widespread disruption or destruction of the economy, we just came out of a global pandemic and isolated runs on bubblegum notwithstanding the economic base stayed mostly intact so such a scenario in my mind looks far too chaotic for anyone to consider trading in any currency, the situation will be too unstable even folks who have a bunker with 30 years of provisions aren’t going to gamble on what currency will eventually become valuable when goods are available again.
EconomistPlus3522@reddit
Look up venezuela. When it started going to shit with hyperinflation you can buy a years worth of food or a house with a 1 ounce gold goin.
Gold is also for leaving the country. There is historical prescedence for this tol
Zanopek@reddit
In a time when people were living in mudbrick huts with thatched roofs, tribal Chieftains and their wives were already wearing elaborate golden jewellery, some of which can still be admired today in many museums around the world.
Even if we were to revert to the Bronze Age, people will still want to surround themselves with beautiful objects, and that means gold will never become worthless.
stepchildzx@reddit
If there's a SHTF scenario, doesn't mean other economies will stop running. Your country or area might not function but others most probably will which means that their currencies also works and precious metals is still viewed as a valuable.
BelmontIncident@reddit
I'd expect gold and silver to be useful if you're fleeing an unstable situation and going to a place with a functional economy. It's not for an earthquake or for nuclear war, it's if you're getting out before a dictatorship closes the borders or trying to sneak out after travel is banned.
prepnguns@reddit
In a SHTF, it stays safely stored at the bottom of your box ... looking pretty.
There'll be plenty of other stuff that people will want to barter/steal/kill for before gold & silver.
InsanityAmerica@reddit
Has it been a week already? Or are we arguing about usefulness/lack of usefulness of precious metals more often now?
RagnarOatss@reddit
I feel similar so I stock up on other commodities I think are more value in the types of situations I’m preparing for, as in my area specifically bartering food, supplies, etc is probably going to go further then gold and silver would.
Connect-Type493@reddit
Having some bits of gold saved peoples lives in wartime, bribing someone for safe passage etc...there are other uses than trying to exchange it for a chicken...