How I moved to France
Posted by rachaeltalcott@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 136 comments
I am American and have been living in France for a couple of years. I did a lot of research online in advance, although not on reddit, so I figured it might be helpful to others to write about it now that I'm on the other side.
It took over a decade of planning plus a bit of luck to make it happen.
I visited France for the first time as part of a short exchange program. It wasn't something that I was looking for, but the opportunity showed up and I went. I was surprised by how much I liked it, and remember sitting in a little town in central France thinking "I could totally live here." I went from there to a new job back in the US that I ended up hating. So I started working on the long-term plan.
The most common options for moving to France are something like this:
You can get to France with a student visa. There is a strong hiring preference in the work world for people who have a degree from a French university, and it's fairly common for someone in the US to study French during their undergrad degree in the US, then go do a master's degree in France, then get a job in France. I already had a PhD in the US, and did not want to go back to school. I also did not have the required French level to study in France. But I think that this can be a really good option for making the big move. Campus France is the official French website to help people who want to study in France.
There is also a program to teach English in French schools as a teaching assistant, called TAPIF. This can then transition into a more permanent teaching position. But I was already past the age limit, and reviews are mixed. It's reasonably easy to get in, though, and if you do you would apply for a working visa and be a legal resident. There is a sub for TAPIF.
There is a program to become an au pair where you get free room and board plus a bit of pocket money in exchange for looking after someone's kids part-time. This can also translate into a more permanent childcare position, and also comes with a visa if you are accepted. But I was also past the age limit for this, and I don't really have any interest in childcare as a career.
There are a lot of people who are transferred within their company and land in France that way. I think if I had known that this existed I might have tried it. The idea is that you take a job at a company that has international presence in France and then request a transfer to the French branch of the company. You will normally take a big pay cut to do this if you are coming from the US, but the company will handle all of the visa paperwork. Some of these jobs require French fluency, but some US companies in France conduct their business here in English.
But the path that I ended up going for is lean FIRE (there is a sub or check out mr money mustache) plus a visitor's visa. This visa is pretty easy to get. You just have to promise not to work in France and prove that you have enough money to support yourself without a job (current minimum is about 15K euros per year, but you will need more if you want to live in an expensive area). At the point I was working on my plan, the US was having a collapse of the housing market, so I bought foreclosed houses in rough shape, renovated them after work and on weekends, and rented them out. Houses could be had for the price of a midsize sedan, and they mostly needed a lot of sweat equity to get them livable. Then the market recovered and I sold the houses, leaving me with enough money to support myself at a modest level in France. I spend about 2000-2200 euros per month and I enjoy my life, but it is not luxurious, and I think a lot of Americans would consider my standard of living unacceptably low. I don't own a car, never eat out, and I live in a small apartment. But wine and cheese and fresh produce are cheap and good quality. The exercise of walking is great for my physical health. And the less stressful environment is great for my mental health. The sacrifice of all of the mental energy of planning and physical labor were worth it to have the life I have now. I will be eligible to apply for citizenship after five years of renewing my visa and plan to do so.
I'm not saying that the methods that I have listed here are the only way to move to France, just that they are the most common based on what I am seeing around me. There are lots of retired Americans here, lots of young people on a student visa. But I don't think I know anyone who managed to find a French company to hire them without a French degree or as part of a job transfer. I am sure it happens sometimes, but again, it doesn't seem to be common.
Obviously my strategy of buying houses is not going to work now. I was just lucky to have had the opportunity in front of me. I think maybe the closest equivalent would be to move to a place where you can get a high-paying job in exchange for doing unpleasant work in a place nobody wants to live. Probably there are a lot of middle-aged Americans/Canadians/Australians who could sell their homes and live off of the proceeds in France.
The one thing that I underestimated is how hard it would be to learn French. I took classes in the US before I left, but there is just a lot to learn and I am still only intermediate. I am making progress though.
If you have the idea in your head that you would like to move to France some day, start learning French now. If you can't afford classes, try Kwiziq. There are also several subs about learning French. Spend your vacations in different parts of France to get an idea if you would like living there. Read books about the cultural differences between France and other places. Go to Facebook, join groups for moving to France, and look at their guides before asking questions. There is a ton of info out there.
I'm happy to take questions about the process if you have them, with the understanding that I don't have a lot of details about the paths described above that I didn't take. If you are interested in one of those you're better off finding people who have done them and seeing what they have to say.
Bonne chance and bonne courage!
Thin-Parfait4539@reddit
Thanks for this write-up.
Dapper-Sack-8889@reddit
FIRE đ€ą
Pinebabe2086@reddit
So happy with this. I moved to France two years ago with Passeport talent visa to set up my company. Itâs been a whirlwind though. Learning french has not been easy but I started using Michel Thomas method and this has helped me a bit
Healthy-Bee2127@reddit
Are you still there? How is it going? Was it a company or an industry you worked in in the US (or your country of origin), or did you start something new?
Pinebabe2086@reddit
Yes Iâm still there. Itâs going ok. I set up my own company that was existing in my home country.
HootieRocker59@reddit
"... lean FIRE (there is a sub or check out mr money mustache) plus a visitor's visa. This visa is pretty easy to get. You just have to promise not to work in France and prove that you have enough money to support yourself without a job (current minimum is about 15K euros per year, but you will need more if you want to live in an expensive area)." --> How long can you stay there on a visitor's visa? All year round? Can you buy property there? Do you have to leave for 6 months out of every 12 or whatever?
Prinnykin@reddit
I stayed for 7 years on a visitor visa! You just keep renewing it every year.
NederlandsDam@reddit
No, the condition is that you cannot engage in any professional activities. I suspect you can work while having this visa is simply because you do not report to the French gov (or there is simply no way for them to find out). I do not live in France so Iâm not certain how do you manage to report your employment income while being a tax resident in France and while being expected to not be working in France. Anyway, the bottom line is if your end goal is naturalisation, breaking any rules big or small is really not recommended, but if you only want to stay in France for good renewing your long-term visitor visa, then I guess this is fine.
Healthy-Bee2127@reddit
This is illegal.
sacroyalty@reddit
It is French prefecture dependent. I've been researching this for years. It comes down to some French prefectures don't care, some do. I even have gathered 15 sources or so saying one way or the other over the years. I'll paste some below, some are relocation companies and or professionals in the space. Many that I won't paste are more blog style personal anecdotes.
Who says working as an independent contractor for a US firm in France is possible?
https://citizenremote.com/visas/france-digital-nomad-visa/
Richard Hammond with French Connections HCB via YouTube video claims @23:12 you can work remotely on the Long Stay Visa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b8fl9EAl4I&t=1392s
Adrian Leeds with Adrian Leeds Group (30 years of helping Americans move to France) says so at @11:30 in the video below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj7koF9Ldjk&t=690s
https://www.expatforum.com/threads/remote-work-on-a-long-stay-visitor-visa.1528000/
@12:53 of this video: https://youtu.be/4rLoPC0WdcU?si=6iYXhg68UGghVOxF
Jay Swanson (Youtuber / Ex American) @6:56 in the Youtube video below says you can work remotely on the long stay tourist visitor visa also, from people he's spoken too (take w/ grain of salt, obv). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJFjGRczEd4&t=416s
Prinnykin@reddit
They never cared at the prefecture in Paris. As long as you had money in your account to support yourself, they were happy.
Prinnykin@reddit
I renewed my visa every single year at the consulate and I was honest with them about my situation. Every year they said it was okay. And every person said that I could work online for a company as long as it was outside of France.
NederlandsDam@reddit
In that case, thank you for sharing your experience. If the end goal is naturalisation it might or might not be an issue depending on whether this is considered primary source of income being in France.
Prinnykin@reddit
Correct, I wouldnât do this if I wanted citizenship.
But itâs a great solution for anyone wanting to live in France for a while if they work online.
King_Jeebus@reddit
Hi, do you know the actual name/number of this visa? I see lots of "visitors visa" options, trying to narrow it down to the one that would actually work like this :)
Prinnykin@reddit
Itâs called the âLong-stay visaâ. When you apply, tick the âvisitorâ box. All you have to do is prove you have enough money to support yourself without working for a French company.
King_Jeebus@reddit
Thanks! Would you mind looking over Here?
...just before you replied I made a post about where I think I'm supposed to apply - it sounds like what you are saying, but thought I'd check! Cheers :)
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Yes, the visitor's visa is normally one year renewable, but I think you can request a 6-month non-renewable if you want.
Ok_Ambassador9091@reddit
Do you own your apartment in France?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
No, I rent.
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
Do you think you will ever buy? I basically want the same lifestyle as you but hope to buy an apartment to remove the extra cost of rent.
That way I could have more disposable income for emergencies and healthcare costs.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I have thought about it, and even looked at a few properties. Financially it makes less sense than in the US. But if you know you want to live in Paris for the next 10-20 years, it would give you stability.Â
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
I donât think I would want to live in Paris.
It would be a purchase to just stay in France.
Is it your intention to stay in France for the rest of your life if possible? Also I would just love to connect in general.
Youâre living my dream right now and I want to stay in touch with someone who was able to achieve it.
Nobody else I know in person even thinks about this.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Yes, I plan to stay long term. Feel free to send a PM if you have more questions. I may not see it right away if I'm traveling, but I will get back to you eventually.Â
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
Thank you. I surely will
ibdread@reddit
Very detailed and informative. Can you breakdown your 2000 euro budget related to your living situation: city, apartment size, rent, groceries, transportation, etc.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I am in Paris, so rent is by far the biggest category. I have a small one-bedroom apartment and the rent is 1675, which includes all utilities, internet/cable, required insurance. It is also furnished down to little things like dishes and towels. So that's everything related to housing. Groceries and little things like TP about 100-150 per month. I walk to one of the cheaper marchés once a week and can get produce in season for about 1.50-2 euros per kilo, as produce is more expensive at a grocery store. I don't eat a lot of meat. Transportation I mostly just walk, but occasionally use the metro. So maybe add 17 per month for 10 tickets on my phone. My cell phone plan is 20 euros, which is expensive for France but I can use it pretty much anywhere. That is less than 2000, but my 2000-2200 above includes things like hobbies and travel.
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
Wow your rent is soooooo expensive! đ”âđ«
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I prefer to live in the center, so more expensive rent. Healthcare cost is very cheap compared to the US. Some specialists are very busy in Paris, so there is a long wait, but I have always been happy with the quality of the care I get.Â
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
That is great to hear.
I have looked at several other countries too but the healthcare in France among other pros has my heart set on that country.
ibdread@reddit
Thanks for the breakdown! Your rent seems quite reasonable for Paris! Which arrondissement? Was it difficult to get a lease being an expat? Did you have to pay extra security or get a French co-signer?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
You're welcome. I am in the 5th, very near the 6th and like it a lot. My rent is actually probably illegally high but I am very willing to overlook that because I suspect that I would have a hard time finding a place at legal rents. A lot of expats live further out for this reason. I went through an agency that caters to English-speakers in non-traditional situations and they charge more. Also I moved during the pandemic and I suspect that that made the rental market weird. The security deposit is the standard two months for a furnished place. I do not have a co-signer or other "garant" but some places want it, and there are multiple companies that offer a service where you pay a yearly fee and they are your "garant" or co-signer.
franckJPLF@reddit
I really donât need understand why anyone would like to live in France. I am French btw. đ€Ł
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
What would you say are your biggest cons as someone whoâs lived there a long time?
thepulloutmethod@reddit
For me, it's simple. Close, walkable communities.
You have to drive to do anything outside of the home in the US.
franckJPLF@reddit
Well you can have that also in Japan with much less cons in your daily life đ€Ł
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
But Japanâs VISA situation isnât so simple
sacroyalty@reddit
Have you seen America? The housing most people can afford requires to be in suburbia where it's almost impossible to walk or have a sense of community without driving hours a day. That and not much regulation on food and other products leading to a lower life and health span plus a lower quality of life on average for USA compared to EU countries.
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
You eloquently summed up my reason for leaving
sacroyalty@reddit
I'm jealous, congrats to you!! We're trying :)
pras_srini@reddit
If I ever figured out a way to take a couple years off from work and go explore Europe, then I'd pick France as my home base. The art, culture, language, food, people, etc. are just fascinating.
phdoofus@reddit
When I was living in Switzerland I had a colleague who grew up Lyon. I ran in to this person who was a pretty highly placed director for Intel in Paris and she was pestering me to come work for her. I wasn't sure about it so I told my French colleague about it and he practically spat and said 'Bah, Paris is a shithole'. I had a good laugh at that.
Subject_Ad_9680@reddit
Americans have a very romantic view of France. But the country has got both pros and cons, like any place. Good for some, not for others
thalamisa@reddit
Like it or not, France is highly romanticized, and everyone in US is hyping to live in Paris after Emily in Paris became a hit.
I visited Paris twice for a business trip purpose, and I have to say I can't work in French culture.
Mightyfree@reddit
Paris does not represent France any more than NYC represents the US. Paris has its own culture and a lot of French donât like it either.
-Afya-@reddit
Why?
Amazing-Value-6468@reddit
Decent weather, trains to countryside, cheap flights to other cities in the mainland. Sure people âromanticizeâ it, and there is riots, politics etc. Still decent compared to many other countries. What am I missing?
Ligma_lemur@reddit
Yeah France is definitely a shit storm rn.
NotTodayPinchePuto@reddit
What was your LEAN FIRE number for France if you donât mind me asking?
Iâm trying to get out of the US ASAP but it seems everyone needs $1M in investments before they will retireâŠ
NederlandsDam@reddit
OP, have you checked the naturalisation requirements? I remember one being the primary source of income throughout the 5 years of legal stay in France must be made in France, so this visitor visa wonât be rendered to become just a golden visa. As you donât have the right to work in France, Iâm not sure how do you plan to meet that requirement.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Yes, there is lots of info online. There is a FB group that supports people through the process, and it's pretty common for retirees who have never worked in France to do it. Maybe you are thinking of the requirement to file taxes in France?
Here is the official website with the requirements: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34708/1_0_1_1_1_0?idFicheParent=F2213&lang=en#1_0_1_1_1_0
Imtalia@reddit
What Facebook group?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
It's just called "applying for French nationality"
NederlandsDam@reddit
No. Itâs a requirement that your primary source of income must be in France in the 5 year period that you had legal residence and use to apply for citizenship through naturalisation. What defines as âin Franceâ may be a debatable subject, but this requirement is not.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
What are you basing that on? I know multiple people who have done what I plan to do and they were fine going through the process.
NederlandsDam@reddit
Also, OP, if you have rental income from your property in France, it also counts. I guess itâs most likely how you see many people on this visitor visa managed to obtain citizenship through naturalisation. But I saw your other reply saying you only rent.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I had rental income from the US, and rent in France. And my friends don't have rental property or other income from France. It's a weird thing about French bureaucracy that takes some getting used to. They will have something written down and it sounds like the rule is X, but when you get there it turns out that it's a lot more complicated that just X. The way to know the real rules that are not written down is to ask other people.
NederlandsDam@reddit
đwhatever you believe in, OP. Good luck /s
8--------D-@reddit
Dumbass
Fortunatehubbs@reddit
Hi there, sorry for the necro reply, but I'm in your situation (or hopefully will be soon) where I have rentals in the USA and am desiring to live in France; how is the taxation situation for your rentals?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I sold my rentals before I moved, but my understanding of the tax treaty is that rentals are taxed by the country where the rental exists. France has a health care cotisation based on worldwide income above a certain threshold, though.
NederlandsDam@reddit
I donât know if the link can be shared here, but look for this document online: âpour les personnes souhaitant demander la nationalitĂ© française par dĂ©cret (Article 21-15 et suivants du code civil)â Itâs mentioned on the first page.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Thanks, found it. My understanding based on the experience of others is that they mean that they want to see money coming in to a French bank account. I get that it doesn't sound like it here, but in reality they are not turning down Americans who are living off of US-based retirement income. They are very concerned with integration, and I think if someone were working remotely for a US country with no presence in France that might be a sticking point, because it looks like they haven't integrated.
Of course, citizenship isn't guaranteed, and if I end up needing to keep renewing my visa it doesn't change much in my life.
If you want to read more about it, check out the FB group "applying for French nationality" and search for visitor's visa. There is much discussion of this as it is a fairly common question there.
kranj7@reddit
This is very true, what you are saying. I am originally from Canada, but came to France some 15+ years ago. I was recruited by a US Company based in France though. They did all my paperwork and residence permit (carte de sejour) etc. So I basically renewed that permit for like 5 years straight and then I applied for nationality, which I got pretty quickly afterwards. Both Canada and France allow for dual nationality, so I did not lose anything. That said when I naturalised French, it was during the Francois Hollande era, when things were a bit easier. I've been told its more difficult now. But one thing that was true then and is the same now is that you need to have full residence rights for 5+ years in order to apply for nationality and a long-stay visitor visa typically does not qualify. So it's something that one needs to look into. Also during the naturalisation process they verify the applicant's tax status/payment records, level of social integration etc. Typically those on visitor visas won't qualify as being socially integrated as this goes beyond just knowing the language.
Subject_Ad_9680@reddit
Naturalization is also discretionary in France. I'm not saying OP can't get it but if they are not satisfactorily integrated, that can be grounds for rejection
SeniorChampion2375@reddit
I need help moving I'm single mom but going alonehhh he took me to court Friday and got retraining order butnolngladnhesbaway from me.Â
CandidInstance4360@reddit
me and my husband just want to be together and we cant, french bureaucracy is so expensive with all of the translations and proofs needed.
He is french and I am English, was only just too young to not be involved in the brexit vote and now my whole future with my husband is stagnant, we have lived apart for 2 years out of the 3 that we've been together, and i miss him so much but the law just means its impossible to find work in the same place, we have thought about moving to ireland where we will both be accepted, but his english is not as good as my french so would be very difficult for him to find work there anyway.
help us at https://gofund.me/de647ae2
Quiet_Love9890@reddit
Hey OP, thanks for sharing your experience with this process. Would you mind sharing your view on the cost of living in France? Iâm interested in transferring from the US to Europe as an Apple employee but am not sure what to believe about average rent rates etc., and how did you go about finding residence without being fluent in french?
ShiralEy777@reddit
I want to walk the Camino. And I thought I would volunteer to do hospitality at some auberge or a Bob .. And then perhaps I could find a way to move there by virtue of my virtuous hospitality that I would be giving for free. Or I could buy a property and see if I can be given permission to live there on basis of that what do you think?
Dennis_Laid@reddit
I took a shortcut. Lucked out and fell in love with a French woman here in the US. We just bought a house together in the Loir Valley, (for less than a down payment here in California). 1/2 time for the next couple years, then permanent. Weâll tie the knot eventually.
Malignedhero@reddit
Are you living together until you tie the knot (if theyâre not a citizen)? Or did one of you move to the otherâs country since getting together?
Dennis_Laid@reddit
We got together in the US where Iâm from. Sheâs been there 25 years, dual citizen France/US.
Malignedhero@reddit
Thatâs great. Iâm in the US and met a girl here who was on a student visa from France. She went back and hasnât had luck finding work here (H1âs being difficult to get) so Iâm looking into work in France. Wish me luck đ
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Aw, that's a great story. Thanks for sharing!
Icy-Quote-4526@reddit
Great post, thx for sharing. Question: my 20 yr old son is moving from US to France in 2 wks on a student visa. He'll be there 9 mo-1 yr. Housing is set up & he'll be attending school at a public university.
We need to figure out how he'll exchange currency and pay bills like rent, food, transportation, etc. How do you manage that? Do you have a French bank account? If so, what's the process of opening one and how do you manage currency exchange?
breadcrumbbeaverspit@reddit
Hi there, studied abroad in France for \~5 months! Would recommend also posting in r/france or r/StudyAbroad if you haven't already as those were amazing resources for me, but I can offer a couple tips:
Bank account: this is probably the most straightforward one and it's great that housing is set up already! You will need to take your passport, visa, and proof of address to any bank office to get set up. French skills come in handy, but if your son is still learning I would recommend a branch in or around the Cité Universitaire as they will have associates that can speak enough English to get you going.
Housing: my student accomodation asked me to provide them a hard copy of my bank account RIB which is basically the info they needed to charge my rent automatically each month. Once you open your bank account you should be able to access it digitally or get a hard copy if necessary.
Utilities: this was probably the hardest part for me as I had to call the electric company myself to get set up. My French was not the best when I first got there and I was only successful in doing this when I found a French speaker to help me. I don't know how it works everywhere, so depending on your housing situation this may or may not be a hurdle for your son.
Exchanging currency: I used Wise bank to exchange large amounts of money from my US bank account. If you transfer the amount of $$ you'd like into a USD account, you can exchange into an EUR bank account for no extra fee. From there, you can just IBAN transfer and the funds will immediately be in your local French account! I don't recommend Wise for everyday use in place of a brick-and-mortar bank because the IBAN transfer code for the EUR account is not French.
Transportation, food, etc: again very easy with a French account! I was actually fortunate enough that my US bank does not charge foreign transaction or even foreign ATM fees so I could rely on it when needed, but I used my French "Carte Bleue" as a default. If you're in Paris you can pay for an Imagine R annual pass as a student--not sure about the specifics of this but I don't believe this is too tricky either.
Icy-Quote-4526@reddit
Thank you so much! My son is leaving on Wednesday, so this is extremely helpful.
AwaySeaworthiness505@reddit
Assuming I arrive on a tourist or LTV, is there a process for applying for a financially independent person visa? I understand what the requirements are for both, but a little confused about the process for converting LTV for FIP. Thank you for this post, it's very enlightening. And congratulations for having the courage to take those steps!
tinykitten101@reddit
You got to the important part after all that writing and then it was incomprehensible. âBut the path that I ended up going for is lean FIREâŠâ. What does that even mean? And what is the sub for that?
champagnepopi@reddit
Something you can find without being lazy
sacroyalty@reddit
I'd do a quick google, it's a great concept if you really wanted to know what it means!
Swansborough@reddit
Just google it or search FIRE subreddits on reddit and read. FIRE isn't unknown, just something you can easily research and learn about. Lean FIRE is just a specific type of FIRE. You can google this "fire retirement" and see what it is in one minute.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I originally put a link to the sub but there is an autoreject for any links. But if you search for the sub lean FIRE you should find it. It basically just means early retirement on a modest amount of income.
emergency-checklist@reddit
Thank you so much for this! This is so very helpful. I took French in high school and college and very badly need brushing up. I have wanted to live in France for over 10 years now and plan to retire there (several years away though). I will take your suggestions above. Thanks!
NYearthling@reddit
What is the age limit for the teaching program?
King_Jeebus@reddit
Is it really as easy as that? I leanFIREd long ago, you're telling me I could just move to France if I want?
How does healthcare work on a visitor's visa? How are you finding the quality of care you get?
May I ask whereabouts in France do you live? I'd love to live somewhere in/near the south-east, as I love mountains and wilderness, but not sure I could afford it...?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Well, in reality they want to see that you have enough money to live in the place that you are going to. If you have 15K euros per year you're not going to be in Paris without a roommate. The 15K is a bare minimum.
After three months you can apply for the French health care system, although it can take a lot longer for your card to come in. But you have to buy private health insurance the first year anyway. I had to pay for some emergency dental work my first year here and it was a little over 100 euros. It was a bit stressful because it was in the summer when everyone was gone on those famous French holidays, but in the end I was able to get it taken care of. Really even if you are paying full price medical care is pretty affordable. But once you get onto the system, it covers 70%, with some exceptions where it can be more or less. The main thing to look out for here is to find "conforming" doctors who work within the French system. There is an American hospital in Paris that is not and it charges American prices.
I am in Paris. I have a friend who lives in Toulouse in the southeast and it's nice down there and much cheaper. It's also easier to find conforming doctors. If health care is a concern, it's important to research whether areas you find interesting have enough doctors relative to the population.
King_Jeebus@reddit
Excellent, thanks for the reply, sounds wonderful! Our budget is actually about âŹ35,000/year, but for two people, so hopefully that'll be enough for them...
...I'll obviously google more, but while I am chatting, I see you say getting the visitors visa is "pretty easy" - can you say more as to the actual process and how long it took? (Like, is it an instant online thing for âŹ50, or is it a consulate appointment and 6 months of waiting and âŹ1500 and a doctor screening, etc?)
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
You're welcome, glad to have given you an option to consider. Yes on that budget you should be fine, especially if you want to be in the southeast and are "lean-fire" oriented. For the visa, you have to do it in person at a VFS center, which are found in places there is a consulate. They want biometrics like fingerprints. I flew in and out same day to avoid the cost of a hotel. The application fee is 100 euros but there is also a charge for them to fedex your passport to you and I think a few other things. You leave your passport with them and they paste the visa into a blank page and send it to you. It landed on my door 10 days later, but I did it well in advance, just in case. I spend about 1000 on the process, including the insurance and plane tickets. Also you have to pay something like 200 euros when you pick up your residence permit in France later and that fee comes up every time you renew.
The visa website has more details. You have to buy insurance and show that you will have a place to stay. I rented an apartment for a few months and that was fine. Really the only thing that they looked at carefully was my financial records. I had a cover sheet with all of the various accounts listed and the totals converted to euros.
It is a lot of paperwork, but as long as you are willing to jump through the hoops, I wouldn't say that it is difficult.
If you get into this months from now and have more questions, feel free to send me a PM. I will monitor this space for questions but I am not getting notifications and eventually I think threads are locked for further questions.
King_Jeebus@reddit
Hi, do you know the actual name/number of this visa? I see lots of "visitors visa" options, I'm trying to narrow it down to the one that would actually work like this :)
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
The hike looks amazing! The visa I have is called a VLS-TS, which stands for Visa de long séjour valant titre de séjour (long-stay visa that counts as a residency permit). The visa allows you to enter the country and the residency permit allows you to stay for a certain amount of time. This is both in one, stuck to a page of your passport. Mine is renewable, but for this hike you would not want the renewable one, just for the time that you need. When you fill out the application there is a place to say how long you want to stay, and if you say longer than a year, it will be renewable, otherwise not.
For five months of hiking, I don't think that you will have to file taxes in France, as you wouldn't have a home there and it would be less than half the year, but it's not a bad idea to do some research on that.
King_Jeebus@reddit
Thanks very much for the info!
I do wonder if that's the right visa for me, seeing as how I'm just a tourist - the "residency permit" bit sounds a bit intense!
I thought I'd hear of a 6 month visa just for tourism, but I really can't seem to find it now... anyway, thanks! That's super helpful :)
ballistafire@reddit
I won't make any assertions whether we're doing things right, or what someone else should expect. For anyone's info, here's our story so far. Our situation is different from OP's. We didn't go for an indefinite stay.
Unsure whether I've got exactly the right details still. I think it was this site.
We asked for 7 months. They returned our passports with type "D" visa, valid 12 months, "MULT" entry, with remarks: "LONG SEJOUR / TEMPORAIRE / V2 VLST / DISPENSE TS". A slip of paper accompanied it printed in English and in French:
Just for fun, I looked at OFII's site to register/validate. It accepted my visa number and had some dropdown list options to describe the visa, but none of them matched mine at all, so I take the visa officers at their word that we don't need to register. I'll probably spend a bit more worry here and there to double-check that, however.
Please come back and let us know how it went for you.
King_Jeebus@reddit
Thanks very much, I really appreciate you looking up the details on yours!
Yeah, I need to create an account to access that link, which I will do asap (I was hesitant before as I wasn't sure I was in the right place).
Just checking, have you actually used this visa yet?
ballistafire@reddit
You bet. We entered France, but since we hold US passports, I'm not sure border control even looked for a visa. I expect they might on the way out.
There is paperwork, and it requires a methodical approach to get through it, but it was straightforward and not hard.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I think anything over 90 days requires the residency permit. If it helps, the literal French means "permit to stay." The visa only gives the right to enter, not to stay.Â
King_Jeebus@reddit
Thanks again! I really appreciate the help :)
King_Jeebus@reddit
Awesome, thanks again, super helpful! The process sounds fine, I'm definitely interested! We've got stuff here until March next year then we're free, I'll let you know! Cheers :)
Unfair_Yak9405@reddit
Hey buddy, I am on a student visa in the UK, as the situation got out of hand I am thinking of moving to France to start a life. I don't have enough money just 1 year valid visa. What should I do?
nurhogirl@reddit
I am a single parent (from the US). I would consider France and I could FIRE there. I looked up the cost of a bi-lingual private school is far cheaper than what I am paying in daycare. I was incredibly surprised. I'm not sure I qualify for a visitor's visa since I have put my kid through school for the next 15 years. I'll probably have to continue to work in the US and save and then FIRE when my kid graduates high school.
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
I would like to add that with TAPIF I had a friend that went the auto entrepreneur route and got a few long term contracts with schools to teach English. So not necessarily a âfoot in the doorâ but it was a route to getting in with schools. Thereâs also the La French Tech Visa for those interested in what working with  a Tech start up there are companies that can hire you and fastrack your Visa with little to no qualifications if you work for a qualified company. Last, if you work remote I recommend reading Stephen Heiners blog or the TAIP:Blog Community on FacebookÂ
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
https://lafrenchtech.gouv.fr/en/come-work-in-france/french-tech-visa/
suddenjay@reddit
glad you achieve your dreams. what exactly is your type of visa? VLS retraité?
can you renew the visa in France each year? do you have to go back to home country USA to renew?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I have a visitor's visa (VLS-TS mention Visitor, I think). I renew in France each year.
suddenjay@reddit
how many times have you renewed the VLS-TS visiteur? any refusal or mistakes? do you intend to naturalise?
I am from Canada currently in London and intend to settle in Paris so I'm asking these questions. for me, I've grown up and live in anglo culture all my life, I appreciate the French mode de vie, the values are so different. I've spent enough time in Paris in pas 2 yrs and met a lot of French , knowing the language opened my eyes and mind and connections so much more.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I have renewed twice with no issues. Really the main reason that people are refused is lack of sufficient resources. It was a big deal back when brexit was happening because so many british retirees had to apply for visas and some were living on a shoestring budget. I do intend to apply for citizenship once I am eligible, although it is entirely possible and a lot less work to just keep renewing as I have been doing.
Yes, I also find it different and that the lifestyle suits me. Good luck with your move. You may find it helpful to join some of the groups on FB for moving to France to get more stories of people who have done it before.
suddenjay@reddit
regarding renew visa and proof of financial means - on your yearly renewal, do you provide proof of finances from your American bank or investment accounts (given your rental income) ? Is there need to create or show French bank accounts?
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I show all of them, US and EU. I sold the rental properties so I don't have rental income. I do have a French bank account, to have my health insurance reimbursements deposited. And also I know of one person whose renewal was turned down because they didn't have a French bank account.
metletroisiemedoigt@reddit
How did you manage to rent a place without having a job? I'm French and trying to get back there after 15+ years abroad, it seems pretty much impossible without work contract + copy of last 3 payslips and last year tax return. I haven't tried private landlord yet, but agencies pretty much told me to piss off.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I went through an agency that caters to English speakers and they accepted my US financial records. They are more expensive but given that my French is not great it is worth it to me.
cubanb49@reddit
Could you PM me the agency you used? I have been researching a move to France and renting without income seemed like a major hurdle. Thanks!
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I don't mind writing it here. Paris Attitude is the one I used. I also talked with the people at Lodgis and they also seemed willing to work with me. As with all rentals in Paris, be aware that if you don't get an official inventory at the beginning (EdL) it could cause problems when you leave. If something is missing or less than perfect you need to be able to prove that it was like that when you arrived.
cubanb49@reddit
Thank you!
elctrnc@reddit
Thanks for sharing this info!
Dangerous-Dave@reddit
Thinking of doing very similar to you. Have done some real estate stuff here in Australia and looking to spend some years in France.
Do you mind me asking what part of Paris you went to or which town if it wasn't paris? How easy / hard was it to find a rental apartment? Was there lots of paperwork involved and difficult to understand with your French level?
Dangerous-Dave@reddit
/u/rachaeltalcott ^ :)
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I am in the Latin Quarter in Paris. I rented through Paris Attitude, which caters to English speakers, so I have a lease in French but with an English translation. It is more expensive than a more traditional route, but they are a good option for people like me who are in non-traditional situations. I did have to send in documentation of my financial situation.
Dangerous-Dave@reddit
Thanks. I am in similar situation so will check them out. I stayed in latin quarter when I was there on vacation last April, was a lovely area. Good on you.
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
If it makes you feel better, I've been here six years and am finally advanced B2 in the language. It is really hard.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Thanks, it does.
ukacunt@reddit
Excellent post
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
sevenseas401@reddit
Do you know if companies will generally avoid people on short term visas? Iâm looking at working holiday visas 1year. But Iâm concerned no one will hire me. I work in environmental management.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I don't really know anything about that visa, but in general companies prefer to hire people with degrees from French universities. But maybe try looking for groups on FB to find people in situations closer to yours.
starryeyesmaia@reddit
No, it cannot. Non-EU/EEA nationals cannot sit the CAPES to teach in French public schools. While they can sit the CAFEP for private, this requires either doing a MEEF masterâs degree or already having one and sitting it as a candidat libre. While TAPIF->MEEF->CAFEP is a decently common option for assistants, it is not TAPIF that allows them to do so. Being a lecteur/lectrice may help you get work as a contractuel(le) at the university level (and is another thing some people do after TAPIF, but is also limited to two years like TAPIF) but it is not simple and may require having the right to work via a VPF visa as they may not sponsor.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I don't know the details, but I know non-EU people who have used tapif as a foot in the door. I didn't mean that tapif was the qualifying factor, just that it is a path that some people take.
noctorumsanguis@reddit
Tapif isnât really a foot in the door either, I would argue. In and of itself, it doesnât lead anywhere. Yes you can leverage it to work on French skills and to network in the country, but thatâs all personal work unrelated to the job. Plus many people end up in the countryside like I did. I loved it but it meant that I couldnât study at the same time and you canât legally do any other type of work in TAPIF. Student visas give you more work opportunities than TAPIF does. I still enjoyed it and feel that it was very valuable and gave me time to get my French up to a decent level, but I would not recommend it as a simple stepping stone to working in France. It is easier to take an education route like a masters or even just find the right work visa
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Good to know and glad that you enjoyed the experience.
starryeyesmaia@reddit
You implied that it was the qualifying factor but it in itself does not lead to anything more than maximum two years (two periods of seven months, to be exact) of being a teaching assistant.
pedanticmuch@reddit
Do you have any intention to work someday? If so, would that mean changing your visa/permit type? I copy verbatim from the long stay visa application form, which requires a "promise not to exercise any professional activity in France".
Think I read an essay where someone claimed they did change it from visitor to liberal profession or artist or something like that while there.
Have you read or heard much about successful naturalization on a visitor visas? I understand this is a popular hypothetical five-year plan. I've also read that French immigration will consider "economic integration", with the suggestion that this means paying taxes from a job.
Wish you good fortune pursuing your long-term plan -- hope it works out, and that you'll come back and let people know how it's gone.
P.S. Anything I've read or heard should be taken with a mountain of salt. I have no idea whether those sources are good!
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
I have thought about maybe going back to school to do something I find interesting and then working and if I did I would change my visa type. There is a place to make this change on the same website where I renew my visa. But I have not really pursued that in detail. My understanding is that you need to be here for at least a year to put in a request to change visa type, but I could be wrong as that was not a goal for me in my first year.
Regarding naturalization, if you are interested in the details of the process, check out the FB group "applying for French nationality" and search for the words "decret" and "visitor" which are the technical terms for my situation. Decret means that I am applying based on my own residency and ability to meet all the requirements, as opposed to applying based on marriage or a few other situations where the requirements are weaker. Visitor is my visa type. There are people detailing their timeline and situation, including those who are doing what I plan to do. I will have to show my financial records proving that I can support myself, so that is part of the consideration. Once I get close I will probably go read up on the recent posts to make sure that there haven't been any changes, but for now my plan seems solid based on what I'm reading so far.
After five years you would typically also apply for a 10-year residency card, which has weaker requirements than citizenship. If you get this 10-year card it allows you to work in France if you want. I have a friend who came here a long time ago as a retiree on the same visa I did and now just keeps renewing her 10-year card because her goal as a retiree is to do the least paperwork possible. She has no interest in working. Because citizenship can take several years, you would normally apply for the 10-year card at the same time as you apply for citizenship so that you would maintain legal residency throughout the naturalization process.
If you have any interest in pursuing this, definitely read up on the details or consult a French immigration attorney (I think some are recommended within that FB group). There are a lot of moving parts in the process and the French are big on bureaucracy.
Thanks for the good wishes.
StacyMatson333@reddit
Thank you! Wonderful, helpful advice.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
You're welcome!
HypeBrainDisorder@reddit
I think itâs not just opportunity but the fact you had the skill set to flip houses. I would not have any clue on how to begin that.
Nice post OP.
rachaeltalcott@reddit (OP)
Thanks. I didn't know how when I started, but you can learn a lot online.
lwpho2@reddit
This is great. We donât often see a detailed and realistic description of The Long Game but thatâs what you laid out here and I love it. Also, you had me at Mr. Money Mustache.