"Our houses are insulated which means they always keep the heat in and cold out, which is bad in the summer" This is not how insulation works. Why is this opinion so common among British people?
Posted by slopeclimber@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 67 comments
I suspect that people leave their windows open in the summer heat which actually does allow temperature to equalize both inside and outside.
Anaksanamune@reddit
Because that is how our houses are designed.
Yes, insulation doesn't work that way on it's own, but windows do, so it does as part of the whole system.
Windows in UK houses are specifically designed for thermal gain, so they heat the home up even in summer.
Now with extra insulation that heat from the windows is trapped inside making the house hotter than if there was worse insulation, effectively making their statement correct.
Ok-End3918@reddit
Yes, I don't know why people don't understand this.
My home is very well insulated - it has cavity wall insulation and tonnes of insulation in the loft. In the summer, the radiant heat from the strong sun beams in through the windows and heats anything in view. The insulation then keeps that heat in.
The solution to this is shutters, or at the very least keeping curtains closed.
Tacklestiffener@reddit
We have roll down blinds (persianas) in the outside reveals that keep the heat out quite efficiently, They keep the house dark and cooler but allow a little air flow (when there is any) so there's ventilation (and mozzie net to keep out the little nadgers)
FLRporcelain@reddit
Hi, could you share a link to these please?
rtrs_bastiat@reddit
It's only a partial solution, because our building materials are also designed to hold and retain heat.
mariller_@reddit
That's true for house with or without insulation. Insulation + shutters will prevents the walls to getting to high temps, while uninsulated house after heatwave will be like an oven and will not get cool, unless, there are cold nights.
mariller_@reddit
Exactly, so there is no problems - put the shutters on, especially from south side during day hours and there is NO problem, meanwhile benefits of insulation are great all year long, because in the summer insulation of course does not allow heat IN through the walls.
osmin_og@reddit
I dared to ask some window-installation company whether they can install tinted windows. I could feel their shock.
NumeroRyan@reddit
I have some wide French doors in the lounge and I got some plantation shutters for them, if you open the shutters even in the winter, the gap of about a foot from window to shutter is insanely warm, possibly 5-7 degrees warmer than the rest of the house and that’s just in the winter.
In the summer they are a God send but also expensive to do throughout the house, so he just done it on the biggest windows in the most used rooms.
JibberJim@reddit
Indeed, but instead our building regs are still just a couple of open windows for "cooling", rather than requiring shutters for summer cooling.
Beneficial-Offer4584@reddit
Right, so fitting some plantation blinds that completely block out the sunlight will then aid with this? Our house stays lovely and cool in the hot summer days by closing all of our blinds and curtains, although it’s incredibly dark during the day.
Goochregent@reddit
Yeah this is the true tradeoff. By opening everything at night and closing as much as possible + blocking sun at day, you can manage the heat effectively. I am fine with it but many won't want to live in darkness during the day.
mariller_@reddit
But that's not a tradeoff at all because without insulation house gets even hotter without the blinds.
Killzoiker@reddit
Effectively yes, look at most of the homes in central and southern Europe, they pretty much all have shutters for this reason
mariller_@reddit
They are multiple ways to combat this:
- opening windows,
- internal blinds
- external blinds
- AC
To a point where this argument does not make any sense.
terryjuicelawson@reddit
I once went away for a week during a heatwave, kept all windows and doors shut, came back and the place was like an oven. If a house is left empty in winter then it gets very cold similarly. I don't know why some have the opinion that entire houses are magic in that they can always be at a steady temperature just by closing a few windows. Or that having some open to let some air in makes the whole place unliveable.
slopeclimber@reddit (OP)
The point is to open the windows at night so it cools down. Of course it will eventually heat up over time even with good insulation
BeardedBaldMan@reddit
My theory is that the average person has no idea what heat is, and many people believe heat & cold to be real and the opposite of each other.
As such it's completely believable that they think think insulation stops cold particles from getting into their house and that it wouldn't work the other way (i.e. keep the cold particles inside their house)
You see the same with the general near non-existent understanding of evaporation.
Due-Employ-7886@reddit
The general population doesn't understand evaporation?
BeardedBaldMan@reddit
Look at the amount of people who think clothes can't dry on a cold day.
Due-Employ-7886@reddit
I mean it is more difficult.
Alas_boris@reddit
I've only ever met one person who fully understood evaporation and how best to remove moisture from inside a house.
I met him at a local agricultural show, apparently he had been the prize winner for the 'Best Restored Ploughing Machine' award for the last few years, but had recently had a big fall out with the judging committee and vowed never to enter, or show an interest ever again. He became an ex tractor fan.
Countcristo42@reddit
Why are you acting like equalizing temperature with the outside is the ideal? Houses in hot countries are often designed specifically to avoid that - to keep the outside heat ... outside!
slopeclimber@reddit (OP)
Who is
Countcristo42@reddit
It seemed like you were, my bad if I am reading you wrong
slopeclimber@reddit (OP)
Yes You are reading it wrong. Why would you want the temperature on hot or cold day to equalize with the interior.
FelisCantabrigiensis@reddit
Many British people.
TofuArmageddon@reddit
I think that's OP's point, just phrased a bit oddly
FelisCantabrigiensis@reddit
Insulation works both ways, so a well insulated house will tend to stay cooler in summer if all other things are equal.
However, things are not equal. In particular, if a house is well insulated and has a lot of solar gain - large unshaded windows, for example - then it will warm up a lot in the daytime in summer, but will not easily cool down at night. Obviously in winter you don't want the house to cool down at night, but in summer you do.
The solution is to prevent solar gain in summer - exterior blinds and shutters, shading windows with eaves so the sun does not shine in the window at high sun angles, and so on.
UK isn't the only place with this problem - houses and aparments in Nordic countries, which are much better insulated than in the UK, can tend to overheat in mid-summer.
Ventilation also helps, which means being able to have windows open in the evening and night in summer - without risk to personal safety and property through leaving open access to intruders, rain ingress if it rains, too much light from excessive street lighting, and noise from traffic and infrastructure. Light and noise at night lead to poor sleep and that is very bad for your long term health. Good luck getting these things in British urban areas, with their bright-as-day street lighting, uncontrolled very loud vehicles at night, and high property crime rates.
Verbenaplant@reddit
I can only leave my upstairs windows open on a small latch else I get the neighbourhood cats inside.
FelisCantabrigiensis@reddit
The "cat burglar" joke writes itself, but more seriously if a cat can get there, it's likely a human can too.
Verbenaplant@reddit
That’s why I don’t leave my windows open more than a latch? I mean if a burglar wants to climb a 12 ft surrounding wall and then walk across a thin plastic slanted roof window and jump to my window. Then they are more than welcome to try. I watch cats sliding into the gutter every day trying to get across my roof.
FelisCantabrigiensis@reddit
OK, maybe cats are actually your biggest risk :)
kliq-klaq-@reddit
I think this is a slightly wilful misreading of what people are saying to make people seem silly or stupid.
I live in a northern European red brick terraced house designed to have a high thermal mass and double glazing with quite small windows. My sister-in-law has a house built with a lower thermal mass concrete, a shaded courtyard the flat overlooks, and big open windows designed to maximize air flow through the apartment.
One is built to retain heat in the winter and the other cool in the summer. On especially cold days in Spain her house is harder to hear throughout and on especially warm days in England my house is harder to cool down.
RaspberryWonderful16@reddit
Also the heat in Spain is different.
If you’re out of direct sunlight in the shade there it’s manageable.
In this country the summer heat is like a suffocating gas that just creeps into any space
jasperfilofax@reddit
Your just being pedantic.
What people mean is our houses aren’t very good at dealing with removing heat.
A lot of equipment even in the summer in a house generates heat, like hot water, electrical devices cookers.
This heat is well insulated so house reminds hotter for longer
BaseballFuryThurman@reddit
*You're
jasperfilofax@reddit
no ur being pedantic
GammaPhonic@reddit
Plus, heat from outside gets in via radiation. Touch your closed window on a hot summers day and it’s like a radiator on full blast. That heats your home quite a lot. Then the insulation helps to keep that heat in, or more accurately, it prevents the heat dissipating.
Which is why it’s quite common for the inside of homes to be hotter than outside temperatures during summer.
These-Assignment-936@reddit
Put an offer down on a new build flat in London, later retracted when I realized the place was like a sauna… in the middle of winter. All from radiant heat through a primarily-glass southern exposure. God only knows how people survive in there. Also right above a train line, so opening windows was unbearably loud.
Ok-Woodpecker9171@reddit
These are the same people who think tra candles and some clay pots is "free central heating"
imminentmailing463@reddit
Probably because a lot of people's experiences with homes is that they get far too hot in summer. Which isn't necessarily to do with insulation, but people's understanding of insulation is that it keeps heat in (because conversations around insulation are usually about that), and so they draw that conclusion.
lostrandomdude@reddit
To be fair, new builds are badly insulated
uchman365@reddit
Not sure where you got this. Just moved last year from a 30 year old house to a 5 year old one and the difference in insulation is unreal. The temperature barely drops below 15° in winter with heating off.
imminentmailing463@reddit
I'm not sure really, my friends who live in new builds seem to be able to easily keep them hot in winter, which I guess wouldn't be the case if they were badly insulated?
I remember going to a friend's in February and it being so hot I was sat in a T-shirt, and she told me they hadn't had the heating on for hours!
lostrandomdude@reddit
But do they keep the house cool in summer.
A properly insulated property should keep heat in and heat out
imminentmailing463@reddit
That's basically my point, the problem isn't that new builds are badly insulated. They're actually really well insulated, as demonstrated by how warm they get and stay in winter. But the problem is that come summer that insulation works against them. They get hot through other sources (windows, mostly) and then once the heat is in its very hard to get out, because our buildings are not built with getting heat out in mind.
My friend has a thermometer in their new build flat, and at one point during the September heatwave it was 38 degrees in their lounge.
Nine_Eye_Ron@reddit
Ours is crazy well insulated. Otherwise terrible but well insulated.
dvb70@reddit
That's demonstrably not true. Standards of insulation are far higher than you would find on most older properties due to having to conform to current building regulations. New builds are probably going to be better insulated than the vast majority of UK housing stock.
Blessed_Tits@reddit
All of you need to start closing your blinds/curtains in the summer and keep your windows shut if your houses are getting that hot....
Seriously. Opening a window just let's warm air in. Windows are designed to trap heat inside the house. Close curtains, close windows, problem solved.
Obvs better if you're going out for the day or working so that you can come home to a nice cool temperature.
Verbenaplant@reddit
But the uk is humid as well
thermidorthelobster@reddit
I’ve never heard this opinion expressed in my life.
bee-sting@reddit
Its definitely possible to keep my house cool in summer by opening all the windows at night, then closing the windows and curtains the second the temperature outside is hotter than it is inside.
I think it got up to 26 in my house when it was 40 outside
TheCarrot007@reddit
That's nearly turning the heating on cold it you ask me.
Sitting here at 25.8 and considering putting the heating on.
I can get high 30s in the summer if I dont pull the blinds down.
That's just this room though, probably 20 downstairs and 22 at the front, probably about 11 outside. This place is not that well insulated either.
bee-sting@reddit
how the fuck is it almost 26 in your house‽
mine is currently 18 and i had the heating on for an hour this morning
TheCarrot007@reddit
South facing at the back with sun room.
Now when I got here sun room was an open to the house conservatory. Upstairs would reach mid 40s in the summer (even with the old blinds closed)(admitedly not often just the crazy warm days conservastory was unbearable). With a proper insulated roof and good blinds I can control temperature (£16K well spent)
26 admitedly is the monitor on my desk and the computer is below, so can get a little unrealistic results for the rest of the house. But the Nest in the next room does say 22.
So I exagerated, but 22 is good for 11 outside ;-) Previous house in comparison was uninsulated and I used a lot more gas heating it, thankfully it was cheap then. Ther is some insulation. Old itchy stuff in loft with boards on top but it keeps the heat from up there, up there in the summer. Some of those like white balls in the walls, but who knows how much they are forever falling out (I have used some foam filler to block the bad places))
tmstms@reddit
As others are saying, it is because do not understand insulation.
It's just that historically, excessive heat simply was not an issue.
Forsaken-Original-28@reddit
Yes it was
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1358734/top-warmest-summers-united-kingdom/#:~:text=The%20United%20Kingdom's%20hottest%20summer,average%20temperature%20of%2015.72%20degrees.
I imagine in city heat sinks the issue might be worse now a days with amount of glass and tarmac but there's always been hot summers in the UK for at least the past 100 years or so
yabyebyibyobyub@reddit
Insulation simply stops energy moving from inside to outside OR outside to inside.
So if you have very few heat-producing appliances indoors, in the summer insulation may in fact keep your house colder.
evenstevens280@reddit
More accurately: insulation slows down the transfer of high-energy to low-energy.
Goochregent@reddit
In practice it proves to be the case as we struggle to lose heat at night when its cooler, then during the day everyone seems to have windows open to let in the hot air, the sun shines in heating the place up, general activity and appliances heat the room.
There is a reason why Spanish and Middle Eastern homes are not built like English houses...
There are management strategies you can employ such as keeping windows and curtains open at night, then closing them during the day to stay insulated against the heat. Many people don't like spending the day in darkness though.
Realistic-Stay-7352@reddit
My lived experience. This summer I was round to several friends who live in new builds with a lot of insulation and felt like I was going to die when I went upstairs because it was like a furnace.
ViolatorOfVirgins@reddit
tbh the average houses aren't really that much insulated here anyway. uk has, together with portugal, the worst (by average) insulation 'standards'. turn the heating off when its -1 outside and wait a couple of hours
No-Photograph3463@reddit
The real problem is all the solar gain we get because we have nice big windows to let light in, but also let loads of heat in.
Then as the house is insulated that heat is then kept inside meaning it ends up hotter than outside, and can't be easily reduced due to good insulation.
As 90% of windows open outwards it also means fitting shutters isn't really a option for most which are common place and solve this issue in mainland Europe.
Nine_Eye_Ron@reddit
Our insulation keeps the heat out and the heat in.
Mostly because I set my heating up properly.
MercuryJellyfish@reddit
The problem with a well insulated house in the summer is that once the heat of the day is over, you want to get the house cool, and that’s difficult. It’s not just about the ventilation, it’s about the brick retaining heat.
AerodynamicHandshake@reddit
Because people are comparing their homes in this country designed to retain heat, with the buildings in hot Mediterranean countries that aren't designed that way at all.
Obviously the temperature equalising depends on what windows you open where, having lived in the latter as well there's a knack to it that people don't seem to grasp as easily here.