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Report: Volkswagen To Cut ID.3 And Cupra Born Production In Germany

Posted by historicusXIII@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 82 comments

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82 Comments

Domyyy@reddit

People really hate compact cars these days, damn.
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x218@reddit

A base model VW ID3 is MORE money than a Tesla Model 3. It's absurd that anyone would buy them to begin with
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fretit@reddit

> A base model VW ID3 is MORE money than a Tesla Model 3 But there is no comparison between the two. They are cars in different category.
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x218@reddit

You think people looking to get any of those cars don't look around ? People crosshop vastly different cars all the time, I cross shopped a Smart for two with a MX5 or Model y vs Escalade. They might be different but people compare them all the time
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fretit@reddit

Oh, I am sure they cross shop very different cars, as I am now. But for all the cars I am looking at, more money gets generally a better car. The ID.3 is a lesser car than the Model 3, but for more money. I think me starting my sentence with "but" was confusing. We are on the same page I thing. The ID.3 makes no sense when you can get a Model 3 for less.
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

It is more absurd that anyone would buy a Tesla at any price. Build quality and user experience is abhorrent.
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fretit@reddit

Sounds funny when it is in comparison to VW
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

The only old VW I had was an old Golf Mk2 turbo diesel, which based on its age did quite well. The others were all new and I had a lot better overall experience with them than with my Tesla for the time I owned them, but there is no doubt that reliability of a VW drivetrain from the last 15 years or so is not that great in the long run. Unfortunately I think a lot of modern engines have their reliability hampered by emissions and fuel efficiency requirements, but good maintenance will get you a long way.
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x218@reddit

And you're basing this on what? I've owned 20+ german luxury cars, not C class and 3 series ecoboxes and i'm super happy with the Model Y build and experience, incredibly well built and the user experience you mentioned is basically second to none.
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

I base it on a years ownership of a Model 3 as well as several 4x VW, 3x BMW, 2x Mazda, 2x Ford, 2x Porsche, 1x Toyota and 1x Audi of which only 3 was not bought new (1x VW, 1x Toyota and 1x BMW). Even the econoboxes among them was better built and had better user experience than the Tesla.
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fretit@reddit

If you have had that many cars, you haven't kept them for very long.
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

16 cars in 19 years of ownership might make it sound like I change cars too often, and while I do like to upgrade and/or try different cars it is not as bad as it sounds. Where I live it is allowed to own more than one car, for the last 8 year I have had at least 2 cars simultaneously and for the last 2 years I have had 4 cars simultaneously. That does effect the statistics a bit, my average ownership of a car is 2 years.
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x218@reddit

i didn't downvote you, i'm just curious what you mean by user experience being bad on Teslas. I find the ease of use to be sci fi levels.. you walk up to the car with your phone and the entire car changes to your preferences.. from the mirrors, seats, steering wheel, climate, music, accounts, games, driving style.. everything and it's all through your phone, then you walk away and windows close, car locks.. it's poetry
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

I’ll agree that the phone key is generally a good idea and implementation, but memory functions are not exclusive to Tesla, a lot of other cars has that function with the keyfob. The downside with the phone key is if someone else needs to drive the car for some reason you have to hand them the keycard and explain how to use it, with other cars you can just hand them the keyfob, but this is only a minor gripe. I’ll also agree that the plug and charge user experience with supercharging is pretty good, but again not without faults. What if someone else is borrowing your car, then you end up paying their charging usage. So it is not to say there is nothing positive about the user experience, it just doesn’t make it up for all the bad stuff. When I owned my Model 3 it was some of the following issues related to user experience that lead me to selling the car: The frequent phantom breaking when using autopilot. The implementation of activating autosteer (2x taps of the stalk, and had to be re-enabled after a lane change). Autosteer performance when number of lanes changes. The knives edge of steering wheel force needed to let autosteering know you were still paying attention, too little and it would nag you for input, too much and it would just disable autosteering. The useless auto high beam function. The useless auto wiper function. That too many essential functions rely on using the touch screen instead of buttons (like lights and wiper adjustments). All the bing bong sounds the car kept making, including the sporadic seat belt warning chimes I experienced prior to putting the car in drive. While looking cool I also don’t think the door openers were very user friendly (both inside and out). Poor use of the space on the touch screen when it comes to displaying "shortcuts" and trip data. No apple car play or android auto, which for modern cars is a must for me, no matter how good the infotainment is. No way to turn on the heated rear seats from the actual rear seats. I also would have like to see an option to do regen by using the brake pedal like you can in other cars like the ID.3. After having sold my Model 3 I have also seen plenty of changes that in my opinion only makes things worse. The removal/disabling of the radar and switching to pure vision. The removal/disabling of ultrasonic parking sensors. And the Highland has taken it to another level by removing the stalks. Moving blinkers, lights and wipers to touch buttons on the wheel is just plain stupid. Especially the blinkers makes it unnecessarily difficult to indicate correctly in roundabouts, which we have a lot of in Europe. And having to use to touch screen to put the car into “gear” makes no sense at all. I have probably forgotten something, but I think the above illustrates perfectly why I think the user experience of a Tesla is subpar.
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Domyyy@reddit

I’ve tried out several European teslas and the „terrible build quality“ is simply cope OR US-related. The materials were significantly better than my W205. The finish wasn’t good but neither is the one in my car. If I’m careless while closing the door I literally end up with a trim piece in my hand.
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Bensemus@reddit

It is partly US related. Tesla’s oldest plant is in the US and it seems to have the lowest quality. When they started making cars in China people quickly noticed an improvement in quality. The EU gets cars from China.
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JC-Dude@reddit

As if the ID.3 is built well.
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

In my experience it is built way better than Tesla Model 3.
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JC-Dude@reddit

Your experience does not match reality in any way.
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n05h@reddit

Since the opening of Shanghai build quality has gone up every year. Both in terms of materials used and over quantity control. You are living in the past if you think Tesla is still abhorrent, it’s gotten much, much better since the horrible stuff we saw in 2017-2018.
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Former-Mixture-500@reddit

Build quality might well be on the rise, anything else would seem impossible if the cars should be able to drive at delivery. I sold my 2019 Model 3 to a friend, he got it for a (for him) very good price as I just wanted to get rid of it. I recently drove it again which just confirmed my suspicion that user experience is still on a decline.
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Lower_Chance8849@reddit

You're probably looking at the retail price not the price they are available for, in the UK the ID.3 can be bought for £32-33k, and the Model 3 £43k.
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Count_Nocturne@reddit

That’s 40k usd which makes it the same price as a Tesla without the government incentive
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x218@reddit

I was referring mostly to the EU prices
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Lower_Chance8849@reddit

I just looked for Germany, and the ID.3 starts at 37k, compared to 43k for the Model 3.
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linknewtab@reddit

People hate paying 40k+ Euros for them. VW kept raising the price in 2021 and 2022 when they were supply limited and demand was high and now refuses to lower it again when the economy turned. They rather lose volume than a single cent in profits.
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masterventris@reddit

€40,000 and they still didn't change the wipers to be correct for a RHD car. A minor thing, but screams penny pinching. The only advantage of a VW over the cheaper offerings like the MG evs is the huge dealer network. Which is good, because my ID.3 has spent a lot of time at the dealer over the last 2 years...
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blindeshuhn666@reddit

The MG4 is a decent vehicle. My mom's Kia died last year and she said 'i want a small EV with 250km one way range". The mg4 took 6 month to get delivered and 2 weeks before delivery she got told orange isn't feasible, but red or blue works". But that thing is efficient (my mom drives carefully since she got it, and doesn't use AC too often ). Reaches its wltp range of 450km, sometimes does almost 500 in mild weather. And it was 31500€ factory new (including the incentives here. A id4 would have been more like 37k, Tesla model 3 about 46k , as comparison)
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cannedrex2406@reddit

Yeah say what you want about them being Chinese, But the quality of the MG4 really speaks for itself when VW has to update the ID.3 to actually be competitive against it Also the MG4 is RWD making it the first true RWD hatchback since the 2nd Gen BMW 1 series
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blindeshuhn666@reddit

The MEB cars are also rwd (ID3,4, cupra, Q4 eTron) in their base variants. But yeah the platform the mg4 is on seems promising. MG bringing a performance awd version with 430bhp (which is about as much as their former group B rally car had) is quite cool. The cyberster could also be decent (but will be expensive I assume)
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Knotical_MK6@reddit

How'd they manage to screw up the reliability on the ID3? There's no timing chains to snap, water pump to leak or ignition coils to fail
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lee1026@reddit

Water pump is still there. The batteries are liquid cooled, so something’s gotta pump it.
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jairzinho@reddit

When there's VW, there's a way.
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blindeshuhn666@reddit

Dealerships are selling the 2021 models for 25-28k€ now with low mileage. ID4 prices are dropping even more. Already lurking for a well equipped 30k€ id4 pro performance, maybe a 1st max (hook, head up AR, massage seats)
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OkDirection8015@reddit

People hate compact electric cars lol
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Fabri91@reddit

The ID.3 *starts* at 40k€+ where I live, which is probably close to twice the (already inflated) average transaction here, and more or less twice what a C-segment car used to start at a couple of years ago.
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Domyyy@reddit

The leasing rates of the Born and the ID.3 are pretty decent tbh. But their list prices are very inflated indeed.
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historicusXIII@reddit (OP)

The MG4 seems to rise in sale figures. They are about 10k euro cheaper than the ID.3 though.
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youngchul@reddit

Doesn't help that the ID.3 is overpriced garbage.
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smokeey@reddit

They're ugly ASF and nobody wants low range compact evs.
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IllImprovement700@reddit

The ID3 was the best selling car in the Netherlands in 2021
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Simon_787@reddit

Lol no. Compacts are fine.
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NotveryfunnyPROD@reddit

Fine for you, just like wagons no one actually wants them. You say you want it and when it comes to purchase a vehicle you’ll be like “oh I actually need a suv for practicality”
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Simon_787@reddit

Except I don't.
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AnonymousEngineer_@reddit

The problem is that you're back on your soapbox again. You don't even want a car and think everyone should structure their lives around a cargo bike. The least you could do is be open about your anti-car agenda. If everyone drove cars the size of the ID3, you'd still moan about your invented strawmen known as "stroads" and "death machines".
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Simon_787@reddit

I don't think everyone should structure their life around a cargo bike lol. Exclusively relying on cars for transportation is a shit idea and it hurts literally everyone, including people who have to drive. That's why what you say is stupid. If you knew anything about the issue then you'd support alternatives to driving. You're the one sitting in traffic.
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NotveryfunnyPROD@reddit

Okay good for YOU, but that’s probably a decision made on economic and financial situation and not consistent with the broader market that is trending towards bigger and more expensive cars.
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Simon_787@reddit

I know. I dislike the trend too. We should have fewer cars in cities, not bigger ones that are more deadly.
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nickz03@reddit

How is something like a CR-V more “deadly” than a civic?
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Simon_787@reddit

Taller hood leads to worse visibility due to larger blind zones around the car. High bumper and hit pedestrians higher up. More likely in the upper body rather than legs, which can lead to worse injuries. Pedestrians are less likely to go over the hood and more likely to fall over and hit their head on the ground, plus they can then get underneath the car due to the ground clearance. These effects probably aren't strong with the CR-V (unless you include children maybe), but there are multiple large SUVs and pickups with hoods tall enough to hit adults at chest height. That's why researchers are finding that pedestrians struck by SUVs and pickups are more likely to die than those struck by normal cars (some sources say 2-3x). They are also more likely to hit you in the first place.
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smokeey@reddit

Then why is VW cutting their compact ev segment here?
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MachKeinDramaLlama@reddit

They aren‘t actually cutting. That’s terrible reporting. If you actually look at the figures, VW‘s production had massive growth over the last 12 months. Now that the economy has become stagnant and the car they are pulling back on the rate of growth a tiny little bit. They are still going to have the biggest EV sales year they ever had by quite a big margin. They are still going to have increased their market share. They are still going to post record profit. If they keep going in 2024 at the average rate of the second half of 2023, they will achieve another record, since they started 2023 at quite a bit lower rate.
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NotveryfunnyPROD@reddit

We aren’t talking about vw ev production or profit margins or revenue/profit growth which is what I’m guessing you’re trying to address in your second paragraph. We’re talking about COMPACT EV
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MachKeinDramaLlama@reddit

The question I responded to was why VW is cutting the production of compact EVs. I mentioned that they aren’t cutting the production of *any* EVs. I.e. I‘m talking about all fruit, not oranges.
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Simon_787@reddit

Could be competition from other manufacturers. Either way small compacts should continue to exist. The move to SUVs is the wrong direction.
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HarryRl@reddit

The Cupra Born is beautiful. You literally have the most boring car ever made (the Golf)
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Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit

Eh, it's a rebadged, angry ID.3.
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smokeey@reddit

Lol the cupra certainly looks better than the id3 but that body shape is hilariously ugly. A golf r boring? 😂 okay dude.
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HarryRl@reddit

Ok golf r maybe not I kinda never liked the overall shape of them but that is just me🤣
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RandomCheeseCake@reddit

Other low range compact ev's are selling well because they don't cost fucking 40k+ euros to start with
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historicusXIII@reddit (OP)

> According to Reuters, the Volkswagen Group will suspend production of the Volkswagen ID.3 and Cupra Born at its Zwickau and Dresden plants in Germany for the first two weeks of October > It's worth noting that four other MEB-based models produced in Zwickau - the Volkswagen ID.4, and ID.5, as well as Audi Q4 e-tron/ Audi Q4 Sportback e-tron - will continue to be produced in three-shift operation. In other words, the demand issue seems to be more related to compact hatchback EVs rather than crossover/SUVs.
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MachKeinDramaLlama@reddit

This is incorrect. A similar miniscule adjustment of production rate had already been announced for the ID.4 months ago. Considering that an ID.3 production line in Wolfsburg is just now ramping up, if anything the exact opposite conclusion to what Reuters arrived at seems more reasonable.
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historicusXIII@reddit (OP)

Good news for my colleague, who was worried as he had just managed an order of multiple ID.3s for Ernst & Young.
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n05h@reddit

Because the bigger cars are less price sensitive than smaller cars that should be priced 10-15k lower.
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Deadbeatdebonheirrez@reddit

The electric gti would be amazing to see in the us
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x218@reddit

it needs to exist first
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Deadbeatdebonheirrez@reddit

Id3
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x218@reddit

there is no ID3 GTI and the current one is literally like a small van, it is NOT small. Much bigger than a Golf
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fdxcaralho@reddit

Lol the id3 is nothing like a small van…
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Deadbeatdebonheirrez@reddit

No
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x218@reddit

It's only [taller, lower to the ground and wider](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/volkswagen-id3-2019-5-door-hatchback-vs-volkswagen-golf-2019-5-door-hatchback/front/)
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Blyatskinator@reddit

Lmao a cm here and there… Have you seen an ID3 in real life? It’s Golf sized there’s no question about that, doesn’t mean that it is *identical*.. The thing is though it might be the same size (or sorry, 1% bigger) on the outside but the inside is much roomier due to the EV platform. I’ve been in both.
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Deadbeatdebonheirrez@reddit

You know a centimeter is less than 1/2 an inch lol
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x218@reddit

so 8.1 cm taller is nothing? It's nearly the same height as a crossover.
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blindeshuhn666@reddit

Higher , true. But hardly longer wider. For the cupra there is a eBoost version with a bit extra power (230 instead of 204bhp). Imho the cupra is the id3s cooler brother. Looks better and has a nicer interior. No big battery version available though (like the ID3 has the 77kwh pack as option, the born only comes in 58kwh usable )
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Deadbeatdebonheirrez@reddit

You know where the batteries in EVs go?
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Shad0wAVM@reddit

The Cupra is truly an ugly car. Most idiotic brand without a meaning. Cupra should have remained as a Seat brand.
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Nidungr@reddit

I'm waiting for my company lease Cupra Born to be delivered. I'm under no delusions that it will be any good; I only went with it because it has a bigger battery than an equivalent priced Tesla and has a shorter delivery time than an ID4, both of which are objectively better cars apart from those issues. I'm trying to convince my employer to accept modern affordable cars by proper EV manufacturers like BYD, MG and Nio instead of €40K shitboxes with two window switches but things are slow going. And despite cutting production, I'm in month 11 of the 5 month delivery period, the dealer isn't answering emails and I should just have chosen a damn Tesla like a normal person.
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x218@reddit

whaa? but people on r/electricvehicles were just saying that VW is the best EV manufacturer and is about to overtake everyone
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simon2517@reddit

Who on earth said that? (Everyone knows it's Kia...)
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Muny30@reddit

I wish Cupra came to the US. They make some neat cars.
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AnonymousEngineer_@reddit

Meanwhile, Volkswagen still refuses to sell any EVs in Australia (the Cupra is here in limited numbers).
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