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Flights misled over position, navigation failure follows

Posted by hughk@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 7 comments

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7 Comments

Dunberg23@reddit

Back to IRS and DME/DME we go 😬😬.
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hughk@reddit (OP)

Many plains still have them tucked away. It is just not very accessible in a new shiny glass cockpit.
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Independent-Reveal86@reddit

It’s straight forward to deselect the GPS from the navigation solution via the MCDU, in an Airbus at least and I’m sure Boeing would be similar.
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Dunberg23@reddit

Oh yes, my first jets were all non EFIS with no GPS just IRS and DME/DME and VOR/DME. Very very robust and amazingly accurate, most of the time…
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hughk@reddit (OP)

IRS was a luxury gizmo with lasers and all sorts. You would find it on a wide body like a 747 or military aircraft. It was good though any you could fly from LHR to JFK with it. Other aircraft mostly made do with VOR/DME. I think the issue is when bad GPS data appears unexpectedly. Deselecting is great when you know you are in a problem area. How long does it take though for you to realise it.
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KindPresentation5686@reddit

The US military has had this capability for a long time. There are actually some open source systems now that can also spoof GPS.
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hughk@reddit (OP)

GPS spoofing does happen particularly in theatres of war, but this isn't currently one. Here the GPS was not jammed but rather deliberately spoofed. Designs for such devices have appeared before and some have been used. It does need to be powerful though to overwhelm the navigation of a plane at altitude. Many planes still have some form of INS which covers breaks in radio cover but GPS usually takes precedence. The less accurate INS is usually updated by GPS so it has the last accurate position when coverage disappears. When GPS is spoofed, the bad position seems to cause navigation failure. Planes have other NAVAIDS such VOR/DME or even a standard compass but they give bearings and distance rather than a direct position. And yes it was a plot element in a Bond film: *Tomorrow Never Dies* but apparently has been used IRL by the Russians and Chinese. The US has also apparently conducted tests but those in the area were warned with NOTAMS.
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