So I’ve never lived in really cold places, but maybe someone can answer this.
In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes? And does that mean everyone need places to store a set of swapped out tires all year round? That sounds like such a hassle especially for people without a lot of spaces or their own garage.
I live somewhere where the winters can be fairly harsh, but I just use my performance all seasons. They honestly handle great in snow, and having an awd vehicle makes it pretty easy as well. Just leave plenty of room and brake early. I personally love driving in the snow, but I get it isnt everyone's cup of tea.
No. Whenever this topic comes up on Reddit, everyone will say that people living in harsh winter conditions will always swap to a dedicated winter tire. I have absolutely no idea where the hell some of you guys live that everyone does this. Most people don't have the luxury to drop money on two sets of tires.
I've lived in North Dakota and Minnesota my whole life, moved around a lot but have spent most of my time up north. Walk through any parking lot in January and most cars will have all seasons. Will you see a lot of vehicles with dedicated winter tires? Yes, but it's FAR from everyone.
Are winter tires nice to have? Yes. Are they objectively safer? Yes. Should you get them if you have the means? Also, yes. But does EVERYONE do that? No, not even close. However, this is my anecdotal experience.
But if you plan on driving out on the lakes or go ice fishing a lot, definitely worth the cost.
I should do a post this winter, since this topic gets debated here so much, where I note down the percent of people with winter vs all seasons from some representative parking lots. It would be interesting to see how the number changes from say a Wal Mart vs Target vs Whole Foods 🤔
> I have absolutely no idea where the hell some of you guys live that everyone does this.
Parts of Europe probably. It's illegal in some areas to drive with season tyres in winter.
> In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes? And does that mean everyone need places to store a set of swapped out tires all year round? That sounds like such a hassle especially for people without a lot of spaces or their own garage.
Where I'm from, you **must** have them on from mid november to mid march (or in winter conditions (if the winter is early or late)).
Yep. Some parts of Canada legally REQUIRE you to mount winter tires during certain months. I believe there are various services that store your tires when not in use (for a fee of course).
Quebec requires it. And in Ontario the insurance savings from having winter tires will pay for the tires in time if you change them yourself.
And storing tires is a pain for apartment residents. That's definitely a downside.
A lot of people just run winter tire all year long, it will however significantly reduce their life since winter tire are a lot softer and degrade much faster in temperature hotter than 40°F
Rain is a big one. Snow/mud tires have deep, wide grooves so that snow and mud can get packed into the creases and increases surface area. Without those fillers, all you're left with is a tires with uneven and poor contact patch on the ground, which can result in losing traction in the wet.
We (NZ) get a lot of imports from Japan that come in fitted with winter tires. We don't get the conditions that require them (outside of high mountain passes etc) and they are so dangerous to dive on at higher temperatures that there have been calls to ban them outright. It's illegal already to have mixed tires on a car eg front: normal, rear: winter.
Importers leave them on in part because they have deeper tread, and part of vehicle compliance and saftey checks in NZ require minimum tread of 1.5mm to pass.
See this a lot in northern mi too, we don’t have speed limits over 65 anyways and it doesn’t get that crazy hot. Most people just drive slow around town so they keep winters on all year
They also have severely degraded performance.
When I start to understeer on my winter tires on the first really warm spring day and they feel like I'm spreading them onto the road like peanut butter, I know I'm late with the summer tires.
I’m kinda late to this, but my apartment gives everyone a decently sized locker that I know a lot of people put their tires in. I know people who also rent out separate storage for more security. Personally I’m lucky enough that my parents live an hour or so away with a big empty garage so I just store mine there.
Most garages store a set of tires for customers. Mine only charges $40 per season. I’m in a tiny area in the Great Lakes and it’s more expensive in big cities.
Store it in the balcony. Some apartment buildings have storage space you can rent, that’s an option too. Otherwise, various places (same place that will change your tire) will store it for a fee.
For a few years, I ate dinner on a table made with a sheet of plywood sitting on the set of tires I wasn't currently using. Though probably not ideal for someone with any sort of eye for interior design.
Honestly I'd just be happy if the had the minimum recommended tread depth or more. I've seen bowling balls with more tread than some of the people I've helped push out over the years.
You can get 'winter' tyres (i.e. snow rated) that are suitable for use all year round. I use Vredestein Quatracs on my boring car and it's some of the best money I've ever spent on it. They're surefooted in any weather, hilariously effective in the snow (passing stuck 4x4s in a little hatchback) and I've not noticed any downside in the summer.
Extreme 'winter-only' tyres might be even better, but I'm not going to faff about switching them every 6 months.
They don't have to be winter tires, they just have to be "snowflake" / "mud and snow" rated or whatever. Which lots of all season tires are. I imagine most apartment dwellers just run snow-oriented all seasons all year. That's what I do - snow rated all terrain tires all year.
Lots of tire chains and even independent places offer storage for a fee. There’s even an industry completely centred around tire storage - warehouses specifically owned to store people’s winter/summer tires in the off season.
>And storing tires is a pain for apartment residents. That's definitely a downside.
Or you can rent a locker for $50 a month and store a lot of other stuff apart from tires. Skis, tents, and other outdoor stuff comes into mind.
Or if you have a balcony, stack two tires together and make a little table lol. That's how I've been storing mine for years.
As far as I’m aware BC doesn’t mandate it province wide, but there are TONS of routes where you can get a fairly hefty ticket for driving unprepared in the snow.
I’m on the Island and it’s not required for most areas, but there’s quite a few mountain passes n such that require M+S snowflake rubber at minimum.
I honestly never understood NOT owning winters in a place where you can get snow and ice. It just makes more sense to have them
>I honestly never understood NOT owning winters in a place where you can get snow and ice.
We live in an area that gets 2-4 notable snows per winter at most (let's call that at least 4-6" on the road before plows come). Our plow system is very aggressive around here so the roads are cleared quite quickly. I have Michelin PSAS4's on my S5 and PSAS3+ on my wife's Tiguan and we have zero issues on snow covered roads if we go out before everything is cleared.
Both tires still have plenty of grip on in the cold when it's not snowing. Winter tires just aren't necessary here.
It's the difference between having snow on a frozen ground when it doesn't melt and when the ground is still warm and the tyre has some grip from the tarmac underneath.
Summer tyre on top of snow (frozen ground) has pretty much zero grip. It's pretty much like having ski's in place of tires. If you ever get caught with summer times in that weather I can promise you you'll never make that mistake again.
> I honestly never understood NOT owning winters in a place where you can get snow and ice. It just makes more sense to have them
True and they fare better even in rain below around 5-7°C while all-season will wear too much in summer when it's >35°C which is getting much more common here recently.
This is actually false for nordic winter tires / true winter tires. They don't work that well in rain or dry. You are thinking either all-season's or "mild weather" winter tires (which to be fair have their place but comparatively don't work that well in snow and ice).
Summer tires beat true winter tires even below 0°C when it's dry tarmac. And they are way better in rain when slightly above 0°C.
In northern BC all of the numbered highways and some other range roads require M+S starting October 1. Basically you are required to have M+S tires in northern BC. It's dumb that Alberta just across the border doesn't and their roads are just as bad or worse than BC.
My grandfather lived in AB his entire life and refused to ever buy winter tires. He would always say "I paid for all-season tires so I'm going to use them in all seasons". He would then put 1000lbs of lead in the bed of his truck to get traction. All the extra money he spent in gas moving that lead around would have probably paid for winter tires.
You can get a set of autosocks, work as well as chains and doesn't risk destroying your car.
I'm in the Bay Area so that's what I use the 3 days a year I drive to places that are below zero.
I also have high quality all seasons on as regular tires instead of summers.
Yes Alberta does not but I would say 95%+ of us run them.
You would be insane to not have them, even here in Calgary. Not even a matter of safety, you literally cannot get up half the hills with FWD and all-seasons, always the odd person stuck downtown because of it
Still only need M+S with a minimum amount of tread. I would never run all seasons where I live though, driving through the passes could be suicidal without dedicated winters.
That's wrong. They don't require specifically winter tires. There are plenty of all season tires that are acceptable and meet the definition of traction tires.
Do you have a link to the statue that specifically states that?
[This link says otherwise](https://www.continental-tires.com/ca/en/b2c/tire-knowledge/winter-tire-laws-in-canada/). All seasons with the three peak mountain look to be legal which is exactly what I'm talking about
three peak mountain is all that is required. I would consider those an all-weather tire, and not an all-season. All-season are basically a 3 season in much of Canada.
One of the shops I worked at had tire storage.
I think we charged $50CAD to store them for the year (winters in the summer, summers in the winter).
It was just a storage loft over the office and back corner but it worked.
Since we (I) don't know where OP lives, I chip in.
In Sweden, winter tyres are required if there is winter condition, or allowed in the summer during winter conditions. I store my tires in a tyre-hotel when not in used, and costs 3000SEK (€280) per year
Shit that's a lot of money. Do you live in an apartment with no storage locker?
I really enjoyed having a big garage in Canada with all my tools handy, and I installed tire racks so I could store my winter tires up high without losing floor space.
We've since moved to Australia, and we're a year and a half in, and we keep waiting for people to tell us it's time to swap to winter tires, but it hasn't happened yet.
I live in an apartment, but that is also for swapping them out. It's done in 15 min vs getting my tyres, pull out the car in a parking lot, change them in the middle of the lot, etc. No thanks.
My apartment was really hard core on "don't work on your car in your parking spot" too. Didn't love it but I get why they said that, because I'm sure some people would do a full on engine swap in the parkade.
Yea, I think I am allowed to do it. But I know myself well enough that I wouldn't be able to do it in a reasonable time, without ripping my hair out.
Like, I know how to, but not during the stress.
Aussie here, the only time you might swap is at the snowfields, but I've never owned anything but one set of road tyres at a time (plus track wheels and tyres).
A couple years ago when I had a 2wd Ranger as my daily drifter, I had Michelin LTXes on my grey painted Alcoas, Michelin K02S (winter) on my bare aluminum Alcoas, and burners on my stock steel rims.
Garage was full and wife was not impressed.
Dunno if it’s still the case but in Maryland when they ‘close’ the roads due to severe blizzards, you are still technically allowed to drive if your tires have the M+S rating true winter tires carry.
Just about every half decent all season tire will have M+S these days.
When car people refer to "true" winters, they usually mean ones with 3 peaks mountain snowflake rating.
I live in Minnesota. I know exactly one person who swaps tires in the winter.
Other than edge cases almost no one swaps tires. You either have AWD or four wheel drive, or you suffer thru the winter with just FWD.
Yeah I get what you mean but I think cold is especially troublesome vs. hear.
I used to live in Texas and while it’s hot a fuck, there isn’t much you need to do (or can do) to deal with the extra heat.
I’d take keeping windshield sun shade in the car over shoveling snows, de-icing cars or changing into winter tires any day lol.
Don’t people die from heat, cold, storms and tornadoes in Texas? To deal with cold you put some clothes on but heat you can’t really do anything but stay in air conditioned areas.
The cold does suck sometimes but so does extreme heat.
Almost no one in Michigan does. Our neighbors in Canada are legally required to, but here it's the wild west. AWD and front-engine FWD are usually fine with all-season tires. Front-engine RWD is pretty sketchy, but most people just don't drive their Chargers and Mustangs in the winter or throw a few bags of cat litter/sand in the back of their RWD trucks.
Enthusiasts will just keep a separate set of winter tires on steel rims for the winter. It's honestly not a big deal if you have a garage to store them. I ended up doing that for my Fiesta ST because the low ground clearance turns it into a plow during heavy snows.
> In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes?
Late to the party here. I'm in the upper midwest. Been here my whole life and been driving for about 25 years now. We get ice and a foot or more of snow on a regular basis in the winter. I've had everything from small FWD cars like a Honda Civic to a small 2WD (RWD) truck like a Chevy S-10 to a Ford Escape with AWD and full-size trucks like a Silverado and F150. And I've driven plenty in both the city and country. I have never owned a pair of winter tires. I've always been just fine with all-season with good tread. And I've not known many people that religiously use winter tires.
Like the other Nordic countries people have commented from, Finland also has this. Cars need to have winter tyres 1.11. -31.3. "if the weather requires them". I'm the south, especially along the coast, you could theoretically drive quite often of there is no snow or ice, and temperatures are around 5°C, in reality, that isn't smart and it's better to just change tyres so you can drive whenever you want to.
Winter tyres come in two types. The ones we Finns call "friction tyres", which have a deeper treat with wider gaps than summer tyres. Then there's the type that used to be more common in Finland in the past, the studded ones. Innaddition to the tread pattern it has metal studs in it to provide extra grip on ice. In cities and other well-travelled and maintained roads the first type is just fine, at least in the south, but in the countryside you might want the studded ones.
In my understanding the "friction tyre" is similar to all-season tyre, but has even deeper tread pattern and more sipes (the thin slits) for better fraction.
True, they are illegal in most countries, and Finland is now experimenting with banning them in certain areas. So far it's mostly individual city streets.
One difference between an all season and a Nordic friction tire is the rubber. All winter tires have very soft rubber so that they work well in cold weather. All season tires are a harder rubber as they are meant to handle warmer temperatures
Yeah it is a pain in the ass to change my tires every winter, but it's better than sticking with all weathers and ending up in a ditch or wrapped around a tree.
Im from sweden and everyone here just have a second set of winter wheels. Very few rely on all season because they just wear quick in the summer and are garbage compared to winter tyres in the winter.
when not legally required, no we do not
24 years in Minnesota and i’ve never heard of anyone using winter tires before
4x4 pickup + ATs is as good as it gets here
>In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes?
Yes. Winter tires make a huge difference. The tire compound aka the rubber is made specifically to perform when it's cold. Same idea as summers but opposite temps and different treading.
It depends on how you do it. Fwd cars can get away with fronts being winters and the rears being all seasons/all weathers. This combo specifically is a solid option for fwd drivers. AWD, 4x4, and rwd cars are recommended the same tire all 4 corners. AWD and 4x4 it's important to keep grip the same across axles. Rwd-mlde grip the better.
Side note: 4x4 vehicles can run mixed tires and not have to worry like AWD cars do.
I'm in WI, and the vast majority that live in my area do not. I bought a car back in 2020 and was planning on getting a set, but the winter rated all-seasons it came with have been fine through multiple heavy snows.
Yes, from a little bit north of Anchorage Alaska. You can get tire shops to store your tires for you, but storage isn't that bad. Keep them on an extra set of cheap steelies and swap em over yourself in the winters.
a lot of european countries have LAWS that require you to have winter capable tires (indicated by M+S and 3 peaks icon on the sidewall) when the road has winter conditions on it. In Romania for example almost all people have two sets of tires and they store them however they can, some on their balconies, some in the countryside, some in the basements, or in wheel shops who offer this service to store your winter wheels or tires.
Recently, since we are seeing a lot of global warming, people that live in flat areas have moved onto All season tires, especially like the michelin crossclimate which has a summer inclination. Where I live I see snow on the road for 10-20 days per year maximum and the rest is dry and wet. So I don't have a real purpose for winter tires, since they are shittier in the wet than all season tires.
In Sweden it’s a legal requirement to have winter tires from 1st of December to the 31st of March. If you use tires with metal studs then you are not allowed to have them on the car longer than April 15th and you can’t mount them on the car before October 1st. Studless nordic winter tires can work in summer but the rubber is so soft that you’ll basically ruin them in 1 summer.
My family has 2 cars. So we always have a stack of 8 tires in our garage at any point during the year
> So I’ve never lived in really cold places, but maybe someone can answer this.
>In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes? And does that mean everyone need places to store a set of swapped out tires all year round? That sounds like such a hassle especially for people without a lot of spaces or their own garage.
this is it exactly how we do it here and winters aren't that harsh, especially since climate change. Insurance plays a role (might not pay when having accident in snow with summer tires) and people go to the mountains. not everyone does it but most. it's just part of the culture.
> In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes? And does that mean everyone need places to store a set of swapped out tires all year round? That sounds like such a hassle especially for people without a lot of spaces or their own garage.
Around here (Germany), it is normal to have separate sets of winter/summer tires (rule of thumb for winter tires is "O bis O, Oktober bis Ostern" - "October to Easter"). People usually only use all season tires for cars which do not get driven much or if you really have to care about money (e.g. rental cars). Most places where you can get your tires swapped (if you do not swap them on your own) also offer storage services. E.g. the place I use offers "premium wheel change" - the wheels get swapped and the unused ones get cleaned and stored until the next season, for about €40 extra over just swapping wheels.
In Germany, you are allowed to user your summer tires even during the winter months, but only of the street conditions are appropriate. If you get caught with summer tires when there are winter road conditions, you get fined (with higher fines if you slow down other cars or endanger them).
Yeah here in Denmark, winter tires aren’t legally required but if you get into an accident during the winter with summer tires you are likely to be found liable or partially liable in situations where someone else would be at fault. And its just common knowledge to either use all seasons or winter tires between November and April.
With how mild winters have gotten the last 20 years, all seasons are starting to be much more common though. I use dedicated season tires because i line to have have fun sporty tires for the summer and “performance all season” is just too many compromises in 1 package. I might replace my winter tire with all seasons though. As you drive then for a fair bit into the warmer spring as it can rapidly turn into snow sometimes. Which wears harshly on the soft compounds.
Yep! Here in Sweden it is mandatory to swap out to winter tires (and back to summer later). It’s a pain to store then indeed. I live in an apartment so rent out a space to store the tires. They actually have something called ‘Tire hotels’ here that store tires for you.
Yeah some places store then for free though. I store them in my apartment closet. Just a single stack of tires ain't that bad. Or put them in the corner behind a TV or something
I don't but I'm awd and drive careful when it's slippery. I also don't let my tires go under 4. Last winter neither of my cars slipped a tire driving around.
> In places where winter is harsh, does everyone actually swap winter tires on when winter comes? And does that mean everyone need places to store a set of swapped out tires all year round?
Yes a lot do. It's so common that most tire shops and dealers offer seasonal storage. Although if you're lazy, there are many people up here (Canada) that run winters all year round instead of swapping sets.
MassHole here. I have two sets of tires. Winter tires because I don’t have AWD which makes a huge difference, especially since I live in a pretty hilly area but we get a good amount of snow and ice.
As for storage, I just keep them in the garage
Around here it seems most people get by on the cheapest set of all seasons they could find 2-3yrs ago and we're upper midwest. Snow tires are a great idea, but then you filter down cost, hassle, ignorance, and care, and you aren't left with much. It's honestly scary what you'll see when you look at the tires of the crashed or stuck vehicles. Part of the reason there are so many crashes at the beginning of snow season is not necessarily "people forgetting how to drive" though that is a factor, but that they are rolling around with less tread than a birthday balloon.
Northeast US here. I like to ski, means driving in the mountains specifically when it's snowed, means I swap winter tires on. I just have two sets of rims, takes less than an hour to just change the wheels over.
I'm from Ontario Canada and we swap to winters rims/tires around Nov1st and don't put the summers back on until around the end of March. Most garages/dealers here will store your other set for u over the winter. I'm lucky and have a place for both other sets. In Quebec it's the law, you have to have winter tires on during that time period.
Here in Alberta (Calgary) it's like mid October til mid May at least. I'm originally from Ontario and it took some getting used to. On the plus side "summer" tires last quite a while.
I'm in northeast Ohio. We get additional snow that comes off the Great Lakes compared to the rest of the state. Around here, most people run all-season tires on cars that have either AWD or 4WD. Snow tires perform better, but for the most part, just driving slow is fine.
The only time my Mustang ever got stuck is when I was too lazy to snowblow my driveway before heading out and it would get stuck on the belly of the car for being 6"+ deep to begin with. My xB can do the same thing, but in about ~10"+ of snow somehow.
My dad lives in Upstate NY, and he changes his tires ritually. On every car he’s had (almost all subcompacts or compacts), he’s had a set of winter tires to change into.
Not everybody, but a lot of people do.
I imagine that percentage is proportional to just how harsh the winter is.
I'm not sure what I'd do if I didn't have a garage. It's pretty impractical for a lot of apartment dwellers. At least a lot more apartments out here (Denver) offer garages or underground parking.
Live in Alaska yes. The ones that don't usually run their all-seasons till bald and flip over on the highway. I daily drove an FR-S/BRZ for five years and never had an issue with getting stuck or losing control with my Nokians on it. But would see a new car daily that was flipped or stuck on the side of the highway on my commute.
Here in Norway that is exactly what you do.
Theres specific dates/weather that dictates when you no longer can legally use summer tires or studded tires.
Many tire shops and bigger mechanical garages like dealerships tend to offer "tire-hotel" where you pay a certain price for them to store your wheels there. However from past experience from working in such places and knowing people working specifically with tires, they often mess up as labels falls off and so the wheels easily get mixed around.
I store my wheels in the garage, swap them myself when temperature falls around 3⁰ celsius.
yeah most of the garage store them for you
you pay for storage and they make sure youre coming back there to do it
can check your car for you at the same time
most people time it with oil change too
but here its the law anyway ( quebec )
modified truck , pick up have some time off road tire all year long with a snow flake on it so they are rated “winter tire”
like KO2 or Duratrac
I lived in the snowy hell of upstate New York and ran all-seasons through 6 winters. Knowing how to drive in that weather and when you should just stay home are more important than winter tires.
Knowing how to drive has nothing to do with the type of tire. If you have to slam on your brakes, obviously snow tires will perform better.
I'm shocked by the amount of people that don't understand grade 5 physics.
You can have the best tires in the world, but they won’t save you or the people around you if you are clueless on driving in certain types of weather.
I had a kid from Texas wreck his truck IN HIS DRIVEWAY because of snow/ice. I still don’t understand how it happened.
I was in the Army there. If the Army is shutting down, everything is shutting down.
You might be underestimating the amount of snow up there. Even hospital workers had to stay at work until the plows made it out so it was safe for the other workers to get there.
Even that depends. It’s not so much about the area but more about how well the roads are plowed and maintained. One town could be amazing and the next over could suck.
I've lived in godawful climates my entire life.
Modern all-weather tires will handle anything you throw at them without any sort of worry, and studded tires are banned here anyways.
if you're routinely driving through deep snow winter tires turn annoying/dangerous driving into outright fun. there's no better feeling than finding traction and walking away from people spinning at a light or hill, never-mind having much improved braking.
In a Tirerack test, starting at 30mph the winter tire stopped at 60 feet and the all-season at 90 feet. Going around a 90-degree corner at 25mph the car with winter tires managed it and the car with all-season tires slid off the road.
So if you drive conservatively you *can* be okay with all-seasons, but you have to drive within their limitations.
All *weather*, not all season. Yes, there is a difference, all weather tires have the same severe snow rating that winter tires get. They're not quite as good, but when you don't have room to store 2 different sets of tires, and could need to swap between multiple times a week given local temperature variations in the fall and spring, they work just fine.
i got to drive my brother's 22 wrx with 4 winter tires last year. i came to a stop on a very steep hill near my house that 99% of traffic treats as a yield when the road is snow covered (good luck if you stop, basically). the car had to sort itself out but it went up the fucking thing from a DEAD STOP. i couldn't stop laughing. driving on normal roads with snow in a non-maniac fashion felt like there wasn't anything on the road, it was insane.
i need this..
It doesn't surprise me that a specimen that represents the embodiment of the "American culture" can be so wrong and so reckless with safety but please keep it for yourself.
All seasons are basically illegal in Quebec, Canada. There's a reason for that.
I always had all seasons until I ended up in a ditch after hitting a mix of ice and snow on the highway.
I couldn't trust Nokian's winter tires enough. Never had any other incidents since. The grip is *noticeably* better.
Well seeing as I read OP's post and they specifically said they do not have harsh winters and don't drive even when it does snow I didn't feel it necessary to discuss the merits of snow tires.
It’s not just about snow and ice though. The rubber compound in summer tires is different than what is used in all-seasons, and can become dangerous below a certain temperature threshold. For example, Michelin states that their Pilot Sport summer tires should not be driven in ambient temperatures below 40°F.
You read OPs post, but missed the fact that they said they are having a hard time finding all-seasons and are asking if summers are okay... then you suggest "just get all-seasons"... so, maybe read it again.
All seasons can handle that situation just fine if you aren't clueless about how to drive in the snow.
Hell I used to drive around in my '11 Mustang GT with UHP all seasons in snow storms, just throw two 50 pounds bags of snow in the trunk close to the wheel wells. It was fine, only time it was even annoying was getting started on inclines but even the was manageable.
> away from home in unexpected bad weather
This is why I never leave home without a full set of winter tires piled up on my passenger seat, and my hitch-mounted tire changer.
Sure, I can't carry adult passengers any more, or go up hills without popping wheelies in my Corolla.
But at least no one on reddit can identify a narrow set of unlikely circumstances which would cause mild inconvenience when following the parent's helpfully simplified concise advice.
I'd say it depends more on the car. I had all seasons on my 99 audi a4 Quattro in calgary alberta canada for years. The winters get pretty brutal there, including ice and snow and hilly roads.
The manual transmission (yes it makes a huge difference in snow) combined with the rally drive train allowed me to get by just fine on all seasons. Often times I could get around better than most other people on the road after a particularly big dump.
I'm no race car driver but I understand my machines. Having no traction control helps alot too.
Grew up in the snowiest city in the US and drove only all seasons without ABS or traction control when I was broke. Its not hard. Just don't be a dumbass.
Yeah it's gonna be a hot take here on reddit. Parents have been driving all seasons for 20+ years and we live in Toronto Ontario. As a kid, I didn't really know much which in turn meaning I didn't really care.
Now as I'm older, I'm anal about getting good winter tires. But my dad is stubborn and said it's a waste of money as they've been fine for decades. It's the wild wild west here and I just drive defensively
Yeah don't get me wrong. I prefered to have snows when I lived up north. But there were plenty of winters they weren't in the budget. My city would get 120+ inches a year and the town I commuted to would get 200+.
If you will be driving in snow regularly and can afford it they're nice to have for sure. But not needed.
If you're somewhere where you're going over mountain passes and are required to carry chains, then yeah I can see them being necessary. But anywhere else? Just plan and drive accordingly when it snows. Its not rocket science.
Seriously. For the first couple hours some roads may not be salted and plowed, but afterwards it's just driving on wet and cold. It's not like you're rallying up north.
It's definitely doable. I did as well until I started failing a RWD car. Being able to panic brake and still get traction is a big relief and because they're only used half the year they wear out half as fast. Ends up being a wash on the cost side of things, more or less. In fact the one winter I should have had winter tires I dinged my wheels pretty bad and at $300/EA a set of tires would've been way cheaper.
I believe you...when that snow storm hit Dallas I was on summer tires and living in a hotel...they booked my hotel room out from under me so I had to drive across town to find another one. Once I got the hang of cadence-braking, and started left-foot braking at corner entry it was a piece of cake...but I'm a rally nerd and I've studied driving most of my life...most people don't think to come off the brake when they need to slow down though...or to give it some gas at the same time to stop a slide. I've been in enough arguments on Reddit with people who think you should drive like an amputee and using the left foot to brake is a sin against the gods of the road... not going down that road again.
>Just get all seasons and call it a day. They'll work just fine in all conditions.
Umm, there is absolutely, positively, no tire that works "fine" in all conditions. There is not even a tire that works acceptably in all conditions. I'm dumbfounded that this was upvoted to be the top comment.
I agree with you; I use all-seasons in Boston and it’s been fine. Important caveat being that our winter weather has been totally anemic in recent years due to climate change, so the apocalyptic snowfalls of old haven’t been relevant for quite a while
That was one of the "apocalyptic snowfalls of old" I mentioned. I will never forget snowmageddon! Since 2016, however, our winters have been exceptionally mild compared to the Massachusetts I knew in the 90s and early 2000s
Tires are the most important part of your car. I honestly don't understand how people are so nonchalant about it. It's not even a discussion. For the price, there's no change you can do to your car with a bigger impact, than investing in a good set of tires.
I understand not overspending on sport tires that you will have to replace more often, but all-seasons will work worse in every situation, than a dedicated summer/winter tires setup. And it's a big difference.
And some of us live in places where snow only happens 2 weeks out of the year. We aren't going to spring for winter tires when we will at most put 50-100 miles on them a year, but we need things that halfway work when it does happen and we need to go to the store.
I would argue the Michelin PSAS4 meets the criteria you say is impossible to meet. It's not that far off budget winter tires in snow as well as cold weather dry and wet get and it's pretty close to pretty solid summer tires for dry and wet get in the summer.
There are several tests that show this. The only area they struggle notably vs winter tires is pure ice, but let's be honest if you're on ice all the time you're going to want studs anyway.
It's not perfect, but it's about as close to a do everything tire that anyone has made yet. Conti's DWS06+ aren't far off either in that regard.
I find that just really hard to believe. Unless OP has some really weird tire size from like a 25 year old car then there should be plenty of tires available. They might not be in-stock at that location but if you wait a few days they'll ship them to the store.
> They'll work just fine in all conditions.
No, they have more than twice the stop distance than unstudded winter tyres. Below is a link to a google translation of a Norwegian article about a Swedish test of the all season tyres that are on some new Volvo models. Google wasn't able to translate the most important part of this article, because it's a picture. "Piggfrie vinterdekk" means "unstudded winter tyre", "helårsdekk" means "all season tyre", "sommerdekk" means "summer tyre". As you can see takes 60.11 meters to brake from 50 to 5 km/h on ice with the all season tyres. With winter tyres it took 28.11 meters:
https://www-motor-no.translate.goog/aktuelt/volvos-helarsdekk-er-darligere-hele-aret-rundt/238822?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp
which sounds like a straight up lie. In the US you can order tires from Amazon even. How is he unable to find ANY all seasons. It sounds like he doesn't want to pay for good all seasons.
All seasons are the winter tires. those perform well bellow 7°C. Disadvantage? At +15°C they become a chewing gum that rubs its thread slick in 2k kilometers.
So yeah, just get all season and call it a day. And then in 6 months get them again, and again...
No. All seasons are all seasons. Winter tires are winter tires.
Winter tires self destruct when driven in temps above 40 but are great below freezing.
Summer/performance tires do great in dry and wet conditions above freezing but become slippery bricks in the winter.
All seasons are a jack of all trades that perform adequately in all seasons. Just like name says.
> All seasons are the winter tires. those perform well bellow 7°C. Disadvantage? At +15°C they become a chewing gum that rubs its thread slick in 2k kilometers.
That sounds like the unstudded winter tyres we use here in Norway.
> It has been virtually impossible to find all season tires that match our car
One of the first things they said in this post is that they can't find all season tires.
Why did you think this was a good suggestion?
"I can't find bananas. Are plantains the same thing?"
You: "Just buy bananas, they're fine to eat and taste good."
Did you even read anything that OP posted?
If they have no all seasons but plenty of summer tires that suggests one of two things (in the US):
- They are far south where A/S just aren't needed
- They are in an area that gets enough snow that most people buy A/S over summer, hence the stock being deleted
The latter is not a reason to pass on A/S tires lol.
Or they don't have the right tires for her wheels. There could be plenty of A/S for some random "bro" wheels where she lives but nothing for the practical car that she drives.
Yeah maybe she could order some online. That should have been your first and only suggestion. Please edit your post to reflect that.
If the summer is really hot, which it might be in a place that hardly gets any snow, then all seasons are most likely shit in the summer. In that type of climate there's no reason to buy a compromise.
Michelin PSAS4's have better warm grip than many budget and even mid grade HP summer tires. So that's not totally true.
When I switched off the OE summers on my Golf R to the PSAS4's in the summer, I noticed a good bit more grip (at the expense of a slight decrease in turn in sharpness because the summer tire was so damn hard).
I don't agree with this statement, as it depends on where you live and if you plan to use proper winter tires in the snow. Some summer tires are actually dangerous in the ice and snow. The main difference between actual all season tires and summer tires is the type of rubber used. All season tires balance the rubber chemistry to stay softer down to lower temperatures whereas summer tires don't. Some really bad summer tires will actually get so hard in the cold that they develop flat spots if left sitting in the cold for more than a day or two.
Also depends on the car and the "all season" tire. I worked with a lady that had an older eclipse and insisted when she was looking for a new car she *needed* AWD because her FWD car was "terrible in the snow", now we do get decent snow from time to time (Chicagoland area) but one day I looked at what tires she was running and it was the cheapest chinese brand "all seasons" I think I've ever seen... I run Goodyear Eagle Sport A/S's on my Saab (215/45R17) and they do just fine for the amount of weather we get here, at the time they ran about $120/ea for my size, I looked up the model she was running and priced out my size and they were juuuust over $50... like... no shit you don't have traction in the snow you have super shitty tires on your car.
Not saying you have to go crazy expensive on tires but at least get halfway decent ones rather than the cheapest ones you can find.
For my RWD Genny I got actual snow tires since the Potenzas it came with might as well be summers.
what is considered harsh winter?
would michigan be considered having harsh winter and therefore it would be worth swapping between all season and winter tire?
Mostly depends on the amount of snow. If you're regularly driving on snowy roads, you should probably have snow tires. If you're in an area that gets snow but not all that much, or you have the flexibility to stay home when it does, then all seasons are fine.
Yeah. I grew up in the snowiest city in the US. All seasons work. Snow tires are preferable if you can afford them though. But I and countless others made it through plenty of winters with all seasons.
Hell back in the day snow tires weren't even a thing and most cars were RWD. People survived.
I agree with Dick bonerz 69. If you drive safe in snowy/ice weather you will be ok with all season. If you drive like an asshole, snow tires won't save you.
The shop is wrong, you are right.
All-season is the term which means what you described.
Summer means they should only be run in warm weather. Anything under 40F is a no-go and even light rain around the 50F mark can be squirrelly.
A good summer tyre will still offer more grip in rainy conditions even at 40f. All season or winter tyres will only be better in freezing conditions or when you have a lot of standing water. Just look at f1 for example, in normal rainy conditions the inters can be more than 10 seconds a lap faster than the the full wet tyres. Only during really heavy rain will all season tyres be better than summer tyres.
>A good summer tyre will still offer more grip in rainy conditions even at 40f.
Except high performance summer tires. Anything lower than 300TW is generally a no-no for 40f rainly days, and if you move down to 200TW it's literally a death trap. I'm able to do wheelspins in a 100hp Miata with high performance summers at 50f on mildly damp surface.
Yeah a lot of people refer to "summer" tires as semi-slicks, I remember asking for recommendations for summer tires and they told me to get a summer/winter setup in the Bay Area, where we rarely ever drop below 40F, because he assumed by "summer" I meant something super aggressive.
I got some Firehawks (340TW) and they've been perfectly fine during winter.
Yeah I’ve gone through 3 winters with these (2nd set) and haven’t had any issues on the rare day when it drops below 40. If we get one of those once in a decade sub-30 nights I just won’t drive it. As for damage, I also remember doing research and reading that you’d have to have something with an extremely soft compound to worry about cracking just from the temperature.
I've driven my PS4S tires in wet slushy snow conditions and genuinely had no problems. I've also nearly shat myself trying to stop that car on a a mildly wet road with temperatures near freezing. What I'm saying is caution is absolutely needed if the conditions are not ideal, but it's not the end of the world if you end up in an unexpected weather event before your winter set is on the car.
I drove an ND Miata, the same car as the guy, over snow-covered mountains after picking it up for the first time. Summer tires, dry roads, but around -2c temperature.
It was NOT sliding. It had plenty of traction.
Renting a 2023 ND in early November and travelling to Sequoia National Park, thanks for the confirmation, was concerned about the S001 as it will probably reach low 30s/high 20's in the evening.
Slight exaggeration, I could have got around just fine. But the difference in grip was night and day, normally I'd have a pretty hard time getting the back end out but when it's that cold it'll kick out with just a little bit of effort.
Back when I was like 21 I put summer tires on my Camaro. They were definitely necessary for the PEAK PERFORMANCE driving I was doing (/s). I lived in NC where it rarely snowed so I figured I'd be fine.
Of course it snowed that winter. And holy screaming dogshit did I have an *exciting* drive home that day.
I live in LA and I’ve run summers only for a decade now across three cars. But when I went to visit my dad up north, 33 degree weather and rain meant my traction control was the only thing keeping me in the lane. Even feathering the throttle, I was drifting from a light.
Desert gives extremes of very hot during day and very cold at night tho. Might be sketchy during late night/early mornings. You can run summers year round in the mild weather on west coast
It get's below 45 pretty frequently november-february and rains quite a bit. I used to live in the area and found summer tires just didn't cut it and was much better off running AS3+ tires on my mustang.
I run them here in Oregon on my miata, they're fine as long as you don't push things on public streets with our typical mid 40's winter. But I don't take it out if things get down to 40 or below.
Of course it's worth noting that "summer" tires don't have a universal temperature limit or anything. The thing that makes them summer tires is generally a softer and more flexible rubber compound optimized for grip in warmer temperatures. This makes them grip a lot better when it's warm, but they get hard and much less flexible when temperatures get near or below freezing. When that happens can depend a lot on the specific tire though and some do better than others are lower temperatures.
Some tires are better in rainy conditions than others, but summer vs all season doesn't really determine that.
For a car you drive year round here in Oregon I think the ultra high performance all season class is the best bet. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 is probably the best all arounder, no worries if the temperature drops too low, great in the rain and shockingly good traction for an all season tire. Continental DWS 06 is another good one, but I had both on my mazda 3 and I think the michelins are superior though the continentals are often a little cheaper.
> Anything under 40F is a no-go and even light rain around the 50F mark can be squirrelly.
If you're running something like an NT01 or RE-71, sure. But a PS4S doesn't turn into an ice puck at 39 degrees. The fall-off in performance on a good, modern 240 or 300TW tire is pretty gradual until you get to *actually* freezing.
Second this; summers are designed for a specific temperature range, while all-seasons aren’t subject to the same range (within reason). I’ve heard that when ambient temps drop below 45 degrees consistently is when to swap from summers to winters
>when ambient temps drop below 45 degrees consistently
*laughs in Midwest 4 seasons in a single day in fall*
I've seen the day start out at 30F and be up to 70F by lunch...
Haha no kidding. I live in St. Louis. If I had winter and summer tires, there would be weeks where I was swapping back and forth every single day.
I just use all-seasons. They're fine, snow isn't too crazy here, and I can typically manage to not go anywhere when it's snowing.
This is why I swapped my summers out when the overnight low started getting into the 30s. Also why my winter set is Michelin CrossClimate because they can handle the warmer temperatures that dedicated winter tires can't.
For the Midwest they are perfect. If you're getting stuck with them you're probably running into situations where you shouldn't be driving anyway.
They've gotten me through multiple Indianapolis winters with zero issues.
You guys are crazy. I drive my Corvette all winter with summer tires in the DC area as long as it’s above 20-25F. They’re totally fine getting the car from A to B. Even with light powder snow coming down it was fine. I just avoided icy and extremely cold days. At least in mild climates winter tires just seem like something that only exists on the internet.
This is basically just saying "I played in the street growing up and never got hit by a car, so it's safe."
You can get away with pushing the boundaries on a lot of general rules of thumb, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Even this is on Tire Rack's website for the PS4S.
"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
Tires need malleability to maintain traction and the rubber on summer tires reaches a glass point in that range of temperatures. You only have so much control of what happens to you when you're driving. All it takes is someone stopping short or swerving in their lane to make you take corrective action. If you're rolling on rock hard tires because "It's fine, I'm going slow" you could easily wind up destroying your $120k car because you didn't wanna spend $1,500 every 3-5 years.
All this literally says is the danger of PS4S is below 20F and that was exactly my point I only drive on them >25F and not on the severe ice/snow days. It has been years without problems.
It’s more like $2500 for a set of tires in 20” 255/305 and that’s after downsizing. You’d be lucky to get 6-8k miles out of them. An extra set of wheels is minimum $2000. It’s nonsense if you just stick to ‘cold’ driving.
Agreed. Reading a lot of nonsense. Summer tires are indeed regular tires which perform better in almost all, especially WET, circumstances EXCEPT with snow. All season or all weather tires may provide just-sufficient handling in snow at the cost of worse performance the rest of the year.
OP, in what climate do you drive? For more independent advice check the German road authorities ADAC for in-depth information and tests. They take this stuff extremely seriously, since you’re only allowed to drive with tires which suit the circumstances.
On black ice you only have grip on spikes.
I had summer tires. I fucking loved them. But I could spin my tires reversing out of a parking lot in winter in my 140hp mr2 spyder.
Don’t drive summer tires when it’s not hot.
Does that mean you also have to store summer tires in a warm room? I'm a winter tire user whose factory all-seasons are about to need replacement. Thinking about upgrading to real summer tires but that decision could change if I have to store them in the house instead of an unheated garage during the winter.
Does the unheated garage get much below freezing inside? If so, I would store them elsewhere. Even unloaded rubber can crack and deteriorate in very cold temperatures. Temperature cycles are quite bad for rubber, whether heat or cold.
Storing them in an unheated garage should be fine if they're off the car. They shouldn't flex or be supporting any type of load at the lower temperatures.
Saying it's a no go at 50F in the wet is a bit extreme.
I always share this video in discussions like this. It made it easy to tell for me if summers were worth it for the few days a year it gets cold.
https://youtu.be/bKtnczk8Mxk?si=p87kNfntjperGTNF
You’re correct. Shop is wrong. I have dedicated summer tires which I take off usually in early November when temps are consistently below 10C (50F). Our winters don’t get cold enough for winter tires, you should consistently be at temps lower than 7C (45F) for that, including highs. So my winter set up is all seasons. If you don’t have a sports car, I would just use all seasons year round unless you live somewhere very warm year round.
Yeah, wasn’t asking exactly. Just the region. I grew up in Arizona in the US, where it never snows, summer high temps are in the high 40s, winter highs are usually around 18-24, and even the lows are only around 5 usually. So it’s entirely possible to use summer tires all year round. And even there we had all season tires 😂
My point is, you should definitely have all season tires available where you live. Perhaps they just call them something different.
Summer tires, regular tires, all-season tires... It's like they're playing a game of "let's confuse the customer." But hey, if you don't encounter much snow or ice and you're okay with swapping them out for winter, go ahead and embrace the summer tire life.
> most summer tires will start having problems under 7 degrees celsius
That isn't my experience. You shouldn't have snow or ice on the roads in 7 degrees Celsius, unless there are very rare weather conditions. I've driven with summer tyres in lower temperatures than 7 degrees Celsius with no problems. I live in Norway, and almost everyone here has two sets of tyres. I put on the wheels with the winter tyres when the weather forecast says that there will be temperatures below +2C.
>That isn't my experience.
I wouldn't really say it's mine either, but that's what it said. "problems" meaning that it wears out faster, or that it gets harder. Stuff like that, i assume.
I can't see why tyres would wear out faster in low temperatures. It is a problem that unstudded winter tyres wear out faster in summer, but that's because they become very soft in high temperatures.
Are you in US? Anyway check your laws. Here (not US) you are technically allowed to drive with "summer" tires even in snow but if something happens, insurance will likley not pay.
Most people here have 2 sets of tires and change them in fall/spring. All seasons suck on actual snow but then if you never drive in snow...
No, just no. Summer tires are designed to be used no lower than a certain temperature designated by the manufacturer, so once it reaches a certain temperature, they lose grip. If they were just regular tires, then there wouldn't be separate designations - all-season, summer, and winter. That said, season specific tires tend to perform better than all-season counter parts since their rubber doesn't have to be designed to work in either hot or cold temps, so they can grip better if they're performance tires, or be more quiet if they're touring tires.
Personally, I like to have a very good set of all-seasons that works well in deep snow and ice, since I like to drive from freezing cold to warmer climates in the winter, and for summer I switch to summer performance to maximize grip, especially when I go auto crossing.
If you can deal with possibly ruining your tires or risk not having a drivable car for up to two weeks, then by all means do it. I wouldn't as my situation doesn't allow for me to that.
No. I'm from Chicago. On pavement, you lose a lot of traction but for the way most people drive, summer tires handle that just fine. The problem is, when you need to stop suddenly or avoid an obstacle on the ~~course~~ road, that summer compound will reduce your chances of not getting in an accident.
Of course, in the snow and ice, summer tires are absolutely useless. All seasons do a bit better. Winter tires have the type of traction I didn't think was possible on slick surfaces when I got my first pair in my 20s. I learned how to drive on snow and ice on all season tires. You have to relearn your car's limits if you get winter tires. It's that much of a difference.
That said, summer tires are easily driveable for 90% of the year even in a city like Chicago.
What car and tire size do you have? I wasn't aware any tire size had more summer than all season options. Summer tires are almost always pure performance tires so they'll also probably wear out much faster than the same size all season.
Summer tires shouldn't be used in the cold. They get harder in the cold. Won't grip as well in the cold. What kind of car? Mine came with summer tires but I put all seasons in it as I live in New Hampshire. It's a Chevy ss sedan. It would be rough with summer tires in the winter here.
lmao it took this far to get to this questions... and it's exactly why you should question advice even from auto enthusiasts.
If OP is putting tires on a higher end performance car they may not even really have many all season options and it changes the solution pretty dramatically.
The fact that the shops have a hard time finding an all season is really pointing me to OP having something that comes from the factory with summer tires and may call for those and dedicated winters, Especially if OP is asking a question like this.
If youre only gonna use 1 set of tires all year, you need all season.
With that being said, i have a winter tire/wheel setup, and i will never buy anything other than summer tires for the warmer months. All seasons will never come close to the handling/braking performance of a good set of summer tires.
Summer tires have a soft compound. Best traction for warmer temp roads. They don’t last as long most of the time and they don’t have the best grip for year round conditions. All seasons are the best of both. They are harder compound and will normally last longer and give you grip on most all conditions. I drive my mustang year round on summer tires. Not the best in rain and terrible in snow. Buy all seasons and put them on unless you drive careful and in mostly good weather conditions. Order online surely you’ll be able to find the tire size you’re looking for
Their staff on the phone are really good. The selector might suggest three total options, but they'll be able to recommend up- or down-sizing that will work with your car, and could open up a number of other options.
Sometimes the OEM size is just too specific and not widely used.
Depends on how finicky your TCS is though, from what I've read about my genesis you have to be reeeally close to stock sizes to not have it freak out when running different sizes than it was shipped with... and when going from the stock 19s to 18s you have to keep the ratio of front to back consistent (stock is staggered Front: 225/40R19, Rear: 245/40R19) so for my 18" winters I had to double check on the forums for ones that worked... thankfully both the stock 19 and 18's (lower trim) didn't come in oddball sizes but I've heard that going with a square setup messes with the TCS even under mild acceleration.
I love it, more than enough power for the road and having a bit of fun but not too much where you're always getting yourself into trouble. I would 100% recommend getting an aftermarket exhaust though I test drove a few when I was looking around and stock it's nearly silent/anemic for a "sports car", the instant I turned (now) mine over I fell in love as it already had a Magnaflow exhaust on it.
It's at 97k miles and has basically been trouble free other than basic maintenance and there was a oil pressure sensor that started to leak which was kind of a pain to track down... but honestly not bad at all for 5 years of ownership maintenance wise. If I had one complaint it'd be that it gets pretty shitty gas mileage, with my 3.8 I get worse highway mileage than my buddy's 5.0 Mustang and he has 100HP and 100lb-ft on me lol. In the Mustang 6th is really tall where in my Genny it's fairly short.
I guess one other complaint would be that the coupe community isn't nearly as DIY friendly as the Saab community is/was and tends to be on the ricey side of things.
Dude I totally get what you’re saying about the short gears, my Tiburon sits at 3k on the freeway. I’ve got some parts on there that let the engine breathe a bit more freely, so I’m hoping it’s helping my economy, but I’d love to do some work on the final drive down the line.
You can mount slightly different spec tires and nothing will blow up. They just don't come up when you search by model. Now finding winter tires in something like a 305 is interesting....
It CAN happen, even with a "common" care. We have a 2017 Mirage GT, and there are only 2 options for all-season tires for the car, and they typically aren't in stock locally (thus "hard to find). The last time we got tires we had to wait for them to get shipped in from a warehouse. Actually, a warehouse and a different shop.
Some have them but the price skyrockets quickly based on size. Michelin PSAS4's were $250/tire on my Golf R (235/35/19) but $370/tire on my S5 (265/30/20). Same tire, just thinner and wider.
There are almost certainly all seasons available, just probably not kept in stock. If you want to drive year round I would find a shop that can order them in for you. I had to order tires for most of my performance cars if I didn't want summers.
Most brands, sure. I'm guessing you have a performance car because this is a common situation for them. If you want more options consider getting aftermarket wheels that fit more tires (this is common and can save money in the long run).
It's not uncommon for a car to only have 2-4 brands that make their size.
No summer tires? Tell that to my re71rs. :P
Tires have a gradient of operational temperatures.
Some tires need track temps to activate and are hockey pucks at ambient on a hot summer day. Winter tires are basically goo and easy to damage on the same day.
"Summer" tires are just those that work best when warm. Typically ones I've had don't like it under 50f or so. Even cooler mornings they need a little time to warm up and stick.
Most all seasons I'd more characterize as a 3 season tire. They will get too hot for their best performance easily but don't really work great in the winter, if you get real winters. They are just mediocre at all times, but probably best right where summer tires all falling off.
If you get cold enough to get snow and ice you should get all seasons or a separate set of summer and winter tires. Pure summer tires will be sketchy in shoulder season and miserable in winter.
Check out the Michelin Cross Climate 2 tire. They’re a little bit on the stiff side but they wear well and have a cool chevron pattern. They’re snow rated, but they also handle warm weather well. I have not had to use them for snow, but I have had them for over a year and they have excellent grip, good wet weather performance, and good cornering. They do make a little bit of noise when I’m too aggressive cornering out on the clutch, but that’s to be expected.
I've been relying on the Continental DWS for years, on a number of different cars, and they do really well, even in light snow. If we got any appreciable snow anymore, I'd throw the Blizzaks on for the season, but I haven't had to for the past 5+ years.
I like the ultra high performance all seasons that your contis and my Michelin Pilot Sport All Seasons 4 (such a long name!) fall under. They're still great for summer, have good treadwear, and don't become unpredictable in that weird transition period between fall and winter when you're not sure when its the best time to put on winter tires.
Downside of those is they’re directional so you can rotate them the way you’re supposed to. Due to this on most cars I’ve seen with them have uneven wear
I’ve had directional tires before. They recommend that you rotate them front to rear and rear to front on the same side. A proper alignment will keep them in good shape.
Sure it is. The alignment is what makes the difference on how it wears. Some vehicles have staggered tire and rim sizes from front to back. Combined with directional tires, the rotation procedure includes dismounting and mounting the tires on the rims, along with balancing them.
X2, put them on the wife’s car (I have dedicated summer and winter wheel/tire sets) and it was a total game changer over the Kinergy GTs.
Feels like a completely different car on wet roads/in snow.
I had those on my '07 Civic, and my parents have them on their '14 Forester. They're fantastic tires in the snow. The Civic accelerated like the Forester with its stock all-seasons and the Forester seemed to hardly notice the snow.
I now live in an area with very long and steep hills in addition to snow, so I'm torn between getting a set of Cross Climates for my CX-50 or just biting the bullet and getting a second set of wheels and true snow tires.
High performance summer tires grip more and wear out faster than all weather tires, in addition to being dangerous in the winter. If you drive a sports car, and you drive it fast, get the summer tires and consider an extra set of wheels for all-season/ winter tires. Otherwise stick with all seasons.
I would argue that "regular tires" these days implies all season tires.
So no, summer tires are not regular tires, they are designed to either be swapped off or used in climates that do not often get below freezing.
Correct and yes. But I go up into the mountains sometimes up north where it rains and snows sometimes and the summer tires are a no go.
But all seasons don't wear as quickly as summer only tires not to mention FOR ME all seasons are more cost effective.
Despite what ppl think it's more cool than hot in Phx. It's only super hot 3 months out of the year here.
Am I the only one who has had grip with summer tires in winter?
I (by accident) swapped to my summer tires a bit too early in the Spring that resulted in a couple days where I drove on summer tires close to or below freezing weather without precipitation. The tires had more grip than my winters, but if course weren't as sticky as they are in the summer.
Maybe. I had pretty new summers on when I was delayed in getting my wheels swapped out for the winter tires due to some engine issues. I picked up the car and it was slushy and turning to ice. The tires felt like they were just bald. I think that was the Continental DW Extreme (not DWS).
I have run PS4S year round with no issue, although here in the UK it barely dips below freezing for much of winter, and I also think our tarmac is significantly grippier than what is used in the US.
I see a lot of comments about how easy it is to spin tires if it is even slightly wet from Americans, and it really isn't as easy over here.
I've ran summer tires year round for almost a decade. Seattle is *just* warm enough on average for that to work. During the icy/snowy times I prep and stay home though.
Summer tires are fine for most conditions. I live in south Texas where the winter doesn't get cold at all, so I can run summer tires all year. For commuting it makes no difference but they're nicer on spirited drives.
If this is important to you - Summer tires are sticker and they'll have better braking in emergencies. Tradeoff is that you'll be replacing them more often. Besides that, all seasons will have better performance when it's very cold, rainy, last longer, more comfortable, cheaper, etc.
You also don't need to match tire width exactly, you can go +/- 10mm without an issue.
Go to tirerack.com they will have all-seasons for your car(not sure where you live, but it will at least let you find a tire & brand that fits your car). Most summer tires explicitly state to not *drive* on them under 45°F, and some aren’t even supposed to be under a static load at freezing or lower. My summers require that if they get below 45°F that I let them come back up to a temp above 45 for at least 24 hours before I am allowed to put them under a static load.
It 100% depends on where you live and what the temperature swings are like. I only use summer tires on my cars year-round, but I also have never had the temperature go below 40° F where I live in recent memory. If you live in Southern California, go for it. They're just regular tires.
They are different, you are correct. Sounds like a shop was just trying to sell you some quick tires.
You left out what size you're current tires are, so that leaves everyone in the dark about what options you could move to.
I would enter your tire size to https://tiresize.com/calculator/ and then click on alternative sizes. Anything highlighted in green is an acceptable size to not throw off your speedo(less than 2%). When going with winters/all seasons, I typically aim for 1 size skinnier than I'm currently running(ie: if you're running 225, aim for a 215).
Switching tire size may open up a lot of options for you in the tire options
I really don't wanna play with that. I'm not the only driver of the car and i just want to get what the owner's manual says. But finding an all season that fits has been pretty hard, and i used some big name websites too.
Well, i've checked locally, and couldn't find anything. I'm not going to spend all that much looking into it, i have a car that needs new tires right now. Most people run summer tires here, i checked earlier today and saw the (FIVE YEAR OLD!!!) tires it has on right now are summer tires, so i'm just going for the local popular choice.
summer tires are generally made of a harder rubber that is both more durable that winter tires and more resilient to heat, as trying to do 100km+ by 40°c, winter tires would just die.
also the iprints on winter tires are generally more indicated to grip on snow, while summer just has imprints to cast out water of the rolling band.
all-season is a compromise.
also summer tires can be used in cold conditions, but you will have to be careful at first, and proceed to heat up the tire, both on the rolling band and in the core.
Although that's some professional racing shit, i do not recommend doing that if you have no idea what you're doing.
[Have a watch, good testing of available tyre spread](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rFce9IE_aA).
But to elaborate
* all season = most of them are three season tyres. Most of them are called by europeans "summer tyres". Not all of them, of course, some of them are proper 4 season ones.
* all weather = whole spread from "all seasons that don't suck at snow" to "essentially winter tyre that won't fall apart in summer".
And *of course*, marketing material isn't all clear on that either so you will have proper all weather tyres called all seasons and summer tyre.
What is somewhat useful is so called "3PMSF", 3 peaks with snowflake symbol, meaning "yeah it works on snow".
TL;DR marketing lies as usual, look into tests
Are you sure its 7c and not -7c?
In England we use summer tyres all year around because we have mild winters, maybe some snow/ice every now and then but it's small and doesn't sit for long.
Summer tires have less tread and higher temperatures ratings. Often they will be AA temperature. Usually on performance cars. They are sticky for handling. I swap mine out when weather hits 40 degrees or lower. Live in Pittsburgh. My summer tires I’m running now is Potenza RA’s .until about Halloween. Then I run a/s until about April. Hope that helps.
How are Bridgestone potenza? Are they just the standard formula, cheap low tw like firestone firehawk or the goodyear eagle?
I've really only bought continental tires for the past decade
No, summer HP and UHP are different from all seasons.
As an example, my 3 series on all-seasons Pirellis can basically be driven as-is until the snow hits, since the rubber stays malleable.
My Lotus on PS4S on the other hand, you absolutely feel the difference below 7*C, and it is not recommended to drive them below -5 due to cracking issues from the rubber stiffening.
By that same token though, the PS4S have boundless levels of grip during sports-car season, where the all-seasons Pirellis are consistently "meh" by that metric whether it's -5 or +35
This doesn't mean all-seasons are good for snow btw, just that the primary difference between them and summers is basically the temperature operating range of the rubber compounds. If you're already doing tire swaps for winter vs summer, getting proper summer tires would be wise IMO (only reason I'm on all seasons is they came with the car, but they time out next year, so Firehawks here I come)
The summer tires on my car lose a lot of traction below even 60 degrees let alone 30-45. At 40 degrees it feels like I'm driving on four hockey pucks even on dry cold concrete.
I mean, I just get All Seasons and never change them. I have Toyo all seasons that are moderately aggressive on my truck and have used them in 8 inches of snow and ice and on 100 degree days. I have never considered that at all living in Kentucky. I will use street tires on my other truck in the snow too and not think anything of it.
Summer tires are down right dangerous in sub-freezing temperatures. Much below zero and the tread compound could actually crack. They absolutely don't work on snow and ice and even in cold rains the traction is not good. If you are going to have only one set of tires get all seasons. Personally I run summer tires 8 months per year and all seasons 4 months per year. I live in a climate that typically does not get snow but goes below freezing at night at times.
The shop is lying to you and is full of shit. Summer tires aren't safe in temps below about 45 F / 7 C.
If you can confidently say you won't have to drive this car in that weather, then yes you could probably treat them the same. Just know, they are in fact different.
In case you care: they are different rubber compounds. Different rubber compounds excel at things like grip, durability, or rolling resistance in different temperature ranges; summer tires excel at those things in warmer weather, winter tires excel at those things in colder weather. All season tires typically are slightly worse at those categories, but can do it consistently in any temperature range, making them ideal for 95% of commuter vehicles.
The problem is virtually every car runs summer tires all year long where i live, and it's been damn near impossible for me to find all seasons matching the tire size and load/speed I need. It's even worse because no one uses all seasons, so even if a company made the tire i needed, pretty much no one sells it.
Not the same. Summers trade grip for treadwear. If you get summers over all season, the tire probably won’t last as many miles before having to replace them
This is completely wrong in many ways.
Summer tires have most grip in warm weather with normal or rainy conditions and the longest tire life. All seasons and winter tires have a softer tire material and not big surface areas, but many tiny bendable pieces. These are grippy in snowy and muddy situations, but not in warm normal weather. There they just smear around. Also they are much softer and with these small bendable structures suffer more tire wear.
Bruh summer tires will not last longer than a comparable all season. Pilotsport 4s (summer) Treadwear = 300 , pilotsport all season = 540.
Otherwise like I said, the summers have a more narrow temp window where you can’t take it out below 40
Don't over focus on the tires being the "exact" right tire for your car. All they need to be is the same size for your car. So my daily driver for example is a 2017 Mazda 3 5 door sport and calls for a 205-60/16 tire. I can use any tire of that size I want to use. You are right that Summer tires don't do well in cold temperatures, but I live in Georgia (US version) where we rarely get very cold, and when we do it doesn't stay that way for very long so I choose to use summer tires year round. But if you live somewhere that it does get cold and stay that way then I certainly would get some all season tires.
Summer tires are better for high performance at higher temperatures. Winters have more grooves so the snow can pack in and provide more grip in colder/slicker conditions
I’ve been running summer tires year round with winter temps in the low 50s/ high 40s sometimes 30s for like 20+ years just fine, in RWD cars with up to 800hp. And now I’m seeing you guys can’t even drive Miatas on summer tires when it’s cool out? Weird
I got new All-Seasons put on my car right before my move from Florida to Toronto. In a FWD open diff car. Car did fine all winter long. I don’t commute for work so I can’t say if it’s good for a daily, but Toronto is quite impressive with how quick they remove snow. The few bad storms that came through and the snow was cleared almost entirely the next day, so not once was I stuck or veered off-road or felt squirrelly or anything.
I think it really depends on where you live. If I was in Montreal it’d probably be a different story with the amount of snow they get up there.
Winter Tires have softer rubber that doesn’t harden during the winter as much as the harder rubber All-Seasons/“Summer” tires. This helps grip better in snow/freezing conditions. It’s not recommended to drive on winter tires during the summer cause you’ll wear out the tires faster due to the softer rubber.
SUMMER tires are for Rain and Higher Heat, Grip is Strong in Heat and Humid environments
WINTER tires are for Rain, Snow/Ice and Cold Temps Grip is strong in Cold and on Ice.
ALL SEASON are a "Middle ground" for both, they will perform in both seasons BUT they will not perform as well a season specific tire. You will get about 60-70% capability because the compounds used and the tread pattern is designed to handle "all" weather related road events.
Summer vs All Seasons vs Winter is a proxy for discussing the temperatures at which the tires maintain grip.
Summer tires should only be used in temps above 45 deg F.
Winter tires should only be used in temps below 45 deg F.
All seasons have the broadest temp range but depending on manufacturer the grip will drop off significantly at 20 deg F.
The 3PMSF (Three Peak Mountain Snow Flake) symbol appearing on most winter tires and some all seasons is a specific test on a tire's performance on snow/ ice.
If you're going to drive the tires below 45 F, get all seasons, if you need to drive below 20F, get dedicated winters, or at least 3PMSF all seasons and switch over at the appropriate time.
I live in SE Michigan and drive my Miata year round. I use dedicated summer tires on one set of wheels, and 3PMSF All seasons from late fall to early spring to cover those weeks when temp fluctuates wildly and winter.
Yeah I think those tire shops are just overstocked on summer tires and they just want to get rid of them. Go for all seasons if you get any temps below 40F in your area during the winter.
Summer tires are only good in weather where the temp is typically +7 Celcius. They work in slightly colder but the moment snow or ice are on the ground, you're in real trouble grip wise.
I have summers, I live in Canada and I love the insane grip that they provide. The moment is starts dipping to freezing or below on a regular basis i switch to my winter tires.
There's no such thing as a summer-only tire in some sense, but using summer tires in cold climates can absolutely be dangerous. The best all-around summer tire (IMO), Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, can start to crack around freezing temperatures. Grip falls away quickly below 40°F.
Personally, I use summer tires (PS4S currently) year round on both our cars. I live in Georgia. My cars are always garaged at home, so I don't have to worry about overnight lows. Our lowest daily high temperature this year so far was 45°F. I just drive carefully when it's chilly and avoid driving when it's too cold. If I lived anywhere substantially colder than here (or even if I lived in the mountains in north GA where it gets colder) I would strongly consider a set of all seasons.
Lastly... if your cars are appliances rather than toys — that is, you care about getting somewhere reliably and safely and don't particularly care about the engagement aspect of driving — just get all seasons. There's no good reason to use summer tires if you don't have a performance car that you want to drive spiritedly.
There definitely are “summer-only” tires, but those are performance tires meant to be used on race tracks or specifically designed for use with rally cars for specific weather conditions. But if you get “summer” tires that are also good for wet weather driving, they’re essentially the same as an all-season that can’t do snow/ice that well.
Not sure where you live OP but you mentioned mild winters.
Summer tires can get sketchy before anything freezes. In my experience anything below about 40F means you have the grip and flex of an upturned hockey puck and traction will be difficult to keep until the tire warms up from driving.
Whereas an all season will perform just fine in the cold right out ofnthe driveway and be usable if you have to go anywhere on the rare fully frozen days.
I used to get summer tires on my car, then I came to my senses and started getting the stickiest tire I could get while still being able to rotate them and get good life out of it. It's not gonna be top tier performance, but it will be good enough for any street use of the car and you wont be going through tires every 7k miles. Trust me, I have burned through Michelin Pilots pretty quickly because I wanted a good tire, then I realized my driving experience isn't much different on something a little less aggressive. The only places you are really going to notice a difference between a "great tire" and a "decent tire" is when you are pushing it to it's limits on a track, then the differences are pretty glaring.
Rather than hunt around local tire shops, you might find it easier to shop for tires online, and have them shipped to your local shop for installation.
I've used TireRack.com a few times without issue.
Not sure how new it is, but it seems they've partnered with Discount Tire and will even ship to them for free. Just got Michelin Pilot Sport 4 AS a couple weeks ago that way.
It REALLY depends on where you live.
Where I live, it's almost impossible to buy "summer" tires.
Between the kinds of tires there are some tread pattern differences, but the primary difference between the 3 kinds of tire are the operating temperatures.
Rubber gets stickery in the hot, and hard in the cold. Winter tires are designed to remain somewhat sticky even in cold weather, but in hot weather they get too sticky and end up waring out incredibly quickly.
Summer tires remain a little bit hard even in hot weather, so they don't ware too quickly. But in the cold they get rather hard and won't grip at all.
All season tires sit in the middle, not too hot and not too cold.
It's not really about rain or snow at all. Winter tires are useful in the cold, summer tires are long lasting even in the hot, all seasons sit in between. If you live somewhere like Texas or Arizona it's likely that only summer tires are available to purchase, since even all season tires will become a melty mess on a normal summer afternoon.
If you don’t know the difference just go with all seasons.
It’s like the new iPhone having USB C 2.0 on the regular vs 3.0 on the Pro. Do you know the difference between 2.0 vs 3.0? If not. Get the 2.0
Summer tires are ice skates under 40 degrees. My Vette goes in next week for all seasons because it isn't a garage queen and I'm going to drive the mess out of it all fall and winter.
Even if you don’t drive in the snow you drive in the cold the harder summer compounds won’t grip as well on cold pavement either. The flip side is winter tires will wear faster in summer. I’ve always gone full year winter if I had the same choice but have always lived in northern contiguous 48 states of US where we get winter but not like up in the mountain regions.
There's a lot of people in this thread preaching winter tires or you're an idiot in the winter in this thread. Just want to say that I use Michelin PSAS4's and they are perfectly fine in up to 5-6" of unplowed snow, even with some ice mixed in my S5. More snow than that is irrelevant as I run out of ground clearance and I don't like to plow with my pricey front bump.
They also have no noticeable drop in grip when pushed compared to warm weather in dry and wet conditions in the cold unlike summer tires, yet still provide mid grade summer tire like grip when it's warm.
Would I accelerate and stop a bit quicker on winters? Or have better grip driving on a frozen lake? Absolutely. Are they *necessary* in a climate with only a handful of notable snows per season? Absolutely not.
I live in miami so all the cars here use summer tires year round. I went to Atlanta and the first time that it got below 30, the tires literally froze and lost grip. Trying to do a basic right turn at a normal speed cause the traction control to activate and the brakes to kick in a bit.soemthing similar happened to 2 more miami people I knew. Once the tire warmed up it went back to normal. Aside from that above freezing temps the tire is superior in every way. An all season just freees at a lower temperature point
Look at markings. If it has M+S that means mud and snow. these are winter tires, or how some call them "all season".
Those are good when temperatures don't go over 7°C. If it's warmer they wear out real fast.
Well they are summer tires because places that get actual winters require winter tyres. You're not allowed by law to use summer tires in the winter even if they would manage -7°C on paper.
Regular tires. All-weather tires. Winter tires (studs and without).
There's no point asking what kind of tires on a forum where you can get an answer from someone living in Alaska or Florida. Your local shop should know which works for you.
I live in Alabama so it never snows and so i bought summer tires on a lexus. GLUE in the summer/fall but one day it was late december and the temps were in the 30s and it had started to lightly rain. i was driving on a curvy interstate on ramp PURPOSELY being careful and driving slow i gave a little throttle and snap oversteered and ate shit into the ditch. so that's how i learned to never drive on summer tires below 40f. your mileage may very but i wouldnt do it again.
I buy about 40 tires a year and have some experience. Look at the treadwear rating. You'll see that summer tires are more performance oriented and will not last as long as an all-season tire. If you are in California, Nevada, or Arizona, you'll be fine. Traction is almost always "AAA" but treadwear may be 100-160 instead of 300+. I have a Corvette model that only summer tires are available to fit today.
If you live somewhere with an actual winter season (snow and ice), all you need is a set of regular ("summer") tires, and winter tires. "All-season" tires are a joke, they tend to be worse than summer tires on dry/wet roads, and worae than winter tires on snow/ice. I have seen plenty of comparisons between regular/winter/all-seasons, and even driven them myself, and the differences are staggering.
But the most important tires you can have, is winter tires. A good set of winter tires is an absolute game changer in the snow. My car has decent winter tires, and I can have a lot of confidence with them. My dad's car had some terrible winter tires when it got delivered, and had to have them switched. Worst driving experience I've ever had.
Bottom line: don't skimp out on tires. Apart from making sure your brakes work, they are literally the most important part of your car, and it's not even close.
If you live somewhere that doesn't get extremely cold and doesn't snow, then Summer tires are perfectly fine year-round.
I've had Summer tires on my RWD sports car for 7 years in California and have had no issues whatsoever.
I live in the UK where there’s no real need for winter or all season tyres. However, saying that, I will only go for all season tyres. Have a look at black circles.com there’s some good deals, you can order straight to a garage who will fit them for you included in the price.
Winter tires year round over here.
I’ve been running non-studded winters (NOKIAN - HAKKAPELIITTA) year round for the last 4 years. I don’t put a lot of kilometers on my vehicle (less than 10k/year), still have lots of tread left and it rides just fine.
Saves me the hassle and expense of swapping tires twice a year; works for me
Something I didn't see in other comments : wear.
I use summer tires for about 8 months out of the year, and dedicated winter tires for the other 4 months. Last year I had a surgery right as it was getting cold, and didn't get the chance to swap my tires out. Come late february when I started driving again, I said "oh, it's close enough, I'll just send it". I wore through the summer tires and when summer time came i was having issues, took a look and my tread was GONE. They'll wear a LOT faster under cold conditions. You're better off with all seasons for your situation, unless you're having traction issues or have something especially sporty, don't bother. I'm toeing the line and get a tire that I can still do a first gear pull without setting off traction control, but I'm not shelling out 500 a tire for PS4's.
I drove with pilot sport 3's year round in my old yaris with zero driver aids other than ABS
Only ever had an issue when i went to a place that had turned into a winter wonderland with 20cmdeep snow and icy roads that i sincerely doubt even winter tyres would have a great time with (also saw multiple people drifting but not on purpose lol)
That being said it *rarely* ever drops near freezing and even less to below freezing where i live
Worth noting that in places where the winters don't get all that cold (like Australia and NZ for example) that "Summer tyres" isn't really a thing. If you're not somewhere that regularly gets below like 40F/5C then pretty well any tyre is going to be fine (ok maybe incredibly soft semi slicks might kind of suck, but that's no shock..)
But yeah, below that it's definitely worth looking a bit closer at the cold weather performance of whatever you're buying and what temps the manufacturer says it's rated for, for sure.
I have a second set of wheels with winter tires for my car and the misses. She didn't think it would make a huge difference until she went out after some snow fell and she will only drive in the winter with winter tires on.
The way I look at it is this:
Tires wear out when you drive. When my winter tires are wearing out my all seasons are not; and vice versa. I normally get the Michelin X-Ice series because they work great and have a tread life warranty. By switching I get the best stopping and avoidance maneuvering every season and while it does cost more upfront over the life of the tires it's not much. Plus the confidence it instills and the higher safety make it well worth it.
My country has no seasons, just 1 constant tropic heat all year around. So yes, it's just regular tyres.
Only other tyres that are sold are off-road tyres
I mean, I just get All Seasons and never change them. I have Toyo all seasons that are moderately aggressive on my truck and have used them in 8 inches of snow and ice and on 100 degree days. I have never considered that at all living in Kentucky. I will use street tires on my other truck in the snow too and not think anything of it.
There is a tire for every use case out there. Summer tires typically go on sport cars and they handle dry and wet above 7° C really well. The best actually. There are also all season tires (good for 3 seasons, not winter) that are the most common category of tire and should be readily available for almost every car. There are all weather tires that will have good winter performance along with good all around performance. There are winter tires that are good for below 7° C only and provide the best and safest winter traction. It sounds like an all season or all weather tore would be best for you depending on harsh winter is.
Go with an all season, thatll probably do just fine for what you need. Check tire rack for your tire size and select all season from the menu on the left side. summer tires can be great but the more aggressive ones have poor performance in low temperature and sometimes even in rain. tire rack also has independent reviews and customer reviews of tires.
The Google search is correct, because you’ll find exclusions in many tire warranty cards for summer tires driven in sub-freezing conditions.
Specifically, if a tire develops compound cracking from exposure to super cold temperatures, the tire is permanently compromised and has to be replaced at your expense, because you operated the tire outside the designed parameters.
The tire shop just wants to sell you something sitting in their inventory and hang you out to dry warranty-wise.
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