While the sapphire exits, most of us, mere mortals will never get the chance to own one. Lucid obviously knows this, and their product line shows this. Therefore, for us, maybe an even more interesting video would be discussing their entry level models (which yes, will not be nearly as headling grabbing as this one), and putting them in perspective with the likes of the Tesla Plaid (which now is priced insanely low by comparison).
Can we expect a comparison video of this sort, or will you focus on solo car reviews just as this one?
Doing any comparisons with Telsa is hard due to our extreme bias against them. They also offer zero transparency towards their engineering. That said i would love to compare the air pure(rwd model) against other evs in its class. The air pure and the gravity are actually the models im most looking forward to reviewing as i feel real people will actually buy them.
I appreciate you acknowledging your bias, I love to see that in journalists.
(And I don't agree with you! Tesla makes phenomenal products with insanely good engineering. But it's okay that we disagree)
Yeah, I love both! (Supra and Tesla owner myself). Tesla is the faaaaaaaaar and away more compelling product. It's such a delight. But track or hoon? Supra any day
>Tesla makes phenomenal products with insanely good engineering.
I think several people will disagree with you specifically about Tesla's "insanely good engineering", as a generalisation! Some great engineering, some shocking engineering in current Tesla models. But also, thank you for acknowledging your own position - it's all it takes to have a polite discussion.
(To contribute more: when I worked as a journalist, acknowledging your own subjectivity and sharing important context were the two key, crucial elements to doing consistently good work)
Just judge the cars as they are. At the end of the day, how open and sharing the Lucid engineers are does not affect the driving experience. It’s certainly a bonus, but not a necessity. Tesla not discussing the engineering is their choice. As an investor, I see many things that bother me as an enthusiast but that I’m fine with as an owner.
For mark and I coming from technical backgrounds(engineering in my case, IT in mark’s) these videos for us are about explaining how and why. Specifically why they mades those engineering decisions and how it affects the driving characteristics of cars. Its what interesting to us and a large portion of our viewing audience.
Hey I appreciate you sharing your thought process and I think that’s what makes your channel so unique.
While it’s not a first hand account, have you ever considered partnering up with Sandy Munro to discuss the engineering of Teslas from a performance standpoint?
It certainly makes me curious what the end video product would be.
What does transparency in engineering mean? Are you referring to Tesla's lack of a PR department, or something else?
I feel like with the Munro teardowns and other such things, I have a pretty good idea of how most of the stuff in my Y works and what makes it better (or worse...) than other BEVs. The company sure isn't transparent but the information is out there.
It's about getting some PR rep setting up a test session like this, getting engineers talk to them and provide them information on certain choices and aspects and also answers for design decisions.
Porsche did that, Mazda did it, Chevrolet did it but Tesla simply refuses.
> Tesla simply refuses
Tesla keeps their engineers focused on engineering, 100% of the time. It's like in the movie "The Social Network" when the guy reaches out to tap one of the programmers on the shoulder to ask him a question and Zuckerberg stops him, saying "not now, they're in the zone".
It's also like Kobe Bryant - after he won a championship, a journalist asked him "what are you going to do tonight to celebrate?" He said he's going to the gym to train for the next championship and that gives him an edge, because his competitors aren't willing to be so focused.
Tesla is razor-focused on rapid innovation and relies on that selling cars, not marketing, not friendly relations with journalists.
Ah I see. I would say (it is also kinda proven btw) that neurotypical people need brakes sometimes and cannot work at maximum effort for months and years on end.
And times of relaxation are usually extremely helpful because that's when the brain get really creative and you have the best chances of coming up with revolutionary ideas or solutions.
I'm sure your mileage can and probably does vary, but as an engineer myself I would simply burn out if all I had to do was working laser focused at 100% at the time with "no distractions".
That's what I was thinking, the phrasing was just hard for me to parse. For whatever reason Tesla decided they don't want to do PR or advertising. I can certainly live without Tesla ads, but surely some demo days and relations with the media wouldn't hurt them...
Hell this video makes me want to go buy a Lucid to support the company, just like they said. Now when I think of Lucid I'll think of the people we just saw, but when I think Tesla, well, I just think Musk - not a good look IMHO haha.
The thing is (and I think Musk simply fails to see that) PR is not solely about just pushing ads, signing deals with celebrities as testimonials and brand ambassadors, placing their products in block buster movies to get the sale numbers up etc.
It's about targeting a special audience- in this case car enthusiasts- to explain their mission and all their effort that went into the product which eventually also elevates their brand.
I would not be shocked if 95% of Lucid Air Saphire buyers will never even recognize the existence of this video even though millions of non- Lucid customers will watch it. But it is here to spread their message that they plan on bringing this technology to more people in the future by scaling it up and making it more affordable.
All true, I would not apply to work at Tesla. Well, or any other "hip" company for that matter but that's a personal preference thing.
I bet as the competition ramps up, Tesla is gonna regret their lack of public relations. I wouldn't be surprised if they gain a PR organization in the not too distant future.
It’s wild because I was thinking the exact same thing about Lucid and 90s Chryslers. The car is obviously great but I can’t think of anything more boring, Tesla included.
they look like something out of robocop
80s concept retro, which i know is popular today
i think they look incredible but im not sure it'll age well, whereas the tesla S from the rear still looks very fresh a decade later
Thanks for the kind words. The project was both amazing and a nightmare to put together. Unsurprisingly editing a hour and 27 minute video isnt a easy task
maybe odd question but what is the size of this project in terms of disk space? mark must have some datahoarder level storage given the quality of you guys’ videos
The Geese, influenced by market leaders Kia and Tesla, are not available for technical discussions. But nonetheless, impressive to know a 90 min HDR video was built on a #Dell laptop.
I saw some b-roll shots of some e-motor designs on a showfloor from Lucid and from the Rimac Nevera. Do these companies share their designs openly with eachother?
I just want to clarify this is standard industry practice.
Stealing IP prior to it being publicly disclosed is frowned upon. And most companies actively try NOT to steal undisclosed IP because it just leads to lawsuits.
However, once a product is publicly disclosed (aka available for sale), then it's free range on anyone to buy it and study it.
For this reason, auto manufacturers actually have an association that organizes a borrowing pool of cars. Each member makes their cars available for others to borrow.
Dodge* engineers borrow an F-150 for a few weeks, and Ford borrows Ram 1500 etc.
*It will be a cold day in hell before I recognize Missouri and RAM.
That's also how places like Munro and Associates makes their money. They buy the car and do the detailed analysis and then sell the reports to any and all automakers.
> Dodge*
Me: "The lot was full of used Dodge trucks."
Them: "Ram."
Me; "Yeah whatevver."
Also, for any visitors to the Windy City, it's still the Sears Tower; no one gives a shit who owns it.
I may not be a Chicago native, but was living in the city when the naming rights were bought....couldn't agree more, it will never go by "the name that shall not be named", but always Sears Tower.
It is public knowledge that GM built a mule for the C8 Corvette with a Porsche PDK transmission and a Chevy V8, just to see how a double-clutch auto would perform. They then worked with Tremec to develop an 8-speed “DCT”.
Did you have any trouble fitting in the Lucid? I test drove one a few months ago and I had an issue where the sensors were in my line of sight and I couldn't reach the steering wheel in any comfortable position. I'm just under 6'.
Probably an oddball question but did you ask them if a smaller sports car-sized vehicle was on their long-term roadmap? I find it interesting the Tesla Roadster came out so early in modern EV history but nobody's gone back to that formula until the 718 EV and Lucid has all the Lego pieces in-house to make a car like that happen. Or perhaps every company outside of Porsche is waiting for second gen battery tech to approach that segment?
1. There’s probably an obvious answer to this one, but any insight as to why they only went with 3 motors instead of one per wheel? Was it a packaging limitation?
2. It seems like McLaren and Mercedes are investing in axial flux motors. Did they speak to why they went with a traditional, radial flux motor instead?
1. There's teally not much of an advantage in having 4 motors unless you're rock crawling. Rimac has 4 because cost isn't an objective, but both the Plaid and the EV Maserati GranTurismo have 3 motors.
2. Axial motors are great to pancake them between an ICE and a gearbox.
Yes and no. The current issue with the other ev brands is their efficiency in their motor design and use of battery pack makes them hard to justify. At least with the lucids 4.6 miles per kwh makes them a north of 400 mile range car which means i never think of them as a ev. Its a just a regular car that i sometimes have to plug in. We currently have a ev6gt(essentially the ioniq 5n). Its less than 200 miles of range so as a performance car it’s essentially useless at least here in the midwest.
You're still thinking about charging like it's a gas station. You don't drive all week until empty and then "have to plug in".
You simply plug in every night and start every day with a full "tank". Refueling becomes an after thought for at least 80% of driving. It is a whole different mindset that is hard to imagine until you experience it.
If you have home charging and a typical commute (~10-20mi/day) , a modern 200-250 mi range EV should get you through the work week. So why wouldn’t you charge once a week?
And if you don’t have home/work charging all the more reason to charge “like a gas car”
I’m pretty sure Jack and mark often do drive more than 200 miles in a day and track their cars so the overnight charging doesn’t solve everything for their use cases.
I don't think that's so much an outlier, more the result of not having at home charging because you're in a shitty apartment / rent and you can't charge at work for <insert myriad of reasons>
Midwest is a lot of single family homes. Charging is very easy vs say major NE cities. Unfortunately range is still annihilated in midwest winters…like -30% (and this stacks with highway being -30%). So you might get half of EPA listed range in the winter on the freeway. Brutal.
The Korean media embargo for the ioniq 5n driving impressions lifted earlier this morning, and so far it's being widely praised as a game changer and very different from the Ev6 GT, including the revised battery pack and offering slightly extra range. Although I agree it will be hard sell at its 230 ish range, its price is still intriguing at roughly 60k USD after conversion from KRW if you factor in the amount of supercar performance you get for that money.
I love what Lucid is doing but have you ever seen a more boring vehicle? I’ve seen quite a few of these on the road and up close, and they are just so forgettable. I get that that’s the sacrifice for Cd’s but why does Lucid look like a 90s Chrysler?
Excited to watch this, and huge fan of the channel. As an IT Manager / SysAdmin, I love that Dell is a huge sponsor of the channel. That editing setup is impressive!
Has anyone even seen a Rivian on the east coast? I'm not trying to be smartass I'm genuinely curious.
In Toronto I've seen a Hummer Ev, Lucid Air, the other more "common" models Plaid, the nice Porsche EVs etc
Might have to come down to Pitt/Phi again real soon, I love both cities. See me some Rivians and catch some Rasslin and/or any of the professional/college sports.
Have seen well more than 10, including R1T and R1S. I always point them out when I see them. I think I've seen every color. The yellow R1T is my personal favorite in person.
I gotta say I've loved hearing all the places y'all have seen them on the east coast.
Not sure what the hold up is for Canada, I'll geek out when I see them around Toronto.
Could use the same argument against a Taycan Turbo S. From their video, it looks the car is more than just capable of straight line performance.
Not saying that that the Plaid S isn't a great value though - I think the Taycans and Lucids are just offering something different
Yea but the Taycan Turbo S is a Porsche, which is a brand that is *known* for being expensive but it has the history, reputation and following to justify its pricing.
Whereas Lucid doesn’t have the same pricing power as a Porsche because the brand cachet, reputation and history just isn’t there yet.
In fact not even Mercedes and BMW can get away with Porsche pricing.
Sure but maybe this is the car that builds that brand cachet?
For example Rimac entered the game with an electric car costing Buggati money, and it seems like most people think a Rimac is worth the pricetag.
Maybe the sapphire is worth it for the price it's going for
This car doesn't break any new ground though. It beats a Plaid. Okay? As battery tech gets better, more cars will continue to compete for that acceleration numbers.
Lucid cars are overpriced and don't offer things that other, well established manufacturers already offer. I'd much rather buy a Taycan for way less than a Lucid, and know I'm getting Porsche quality and backing, vs a startup company that is bleeding money and may not exist in 5 years.
There's probably some appeal for the bragging rights - iirc this beats the plaid by a decent margin; which means it will probably beat everything short of a rimac in a drag race.
It's hard to beat the cool factor of a Taycan though. But I'm in the market for any of these, so for me it's just 'car go fast' :)
It beats it be 0.2 seconds, which depending on your perspective is a lot or a little. Either way major kudos to them for stacking up well against a much larger and better funded company.
Right. Although 9.3 to 9.1 is like 4% vs 10% improvement for 2.0 to 1.8. Either way, I meant that genuinely. For some that’s an insane difference. For others it isn’t. I think it’s a pretty big difference personally, but both are going to terrify me if I floor them.
Doesn't offer things other cars offer except for far superior battery and motor tech compared to literally any other EV?
This is exactly what /r/cars was asking for from an electric vehicle - better batteries and smaller motors which will lead to quality affordable EVs.
The Air is also cheaper than the S or the Taycan, so it's really weird you make that comparison but then think the Air is the overpriced one.
Agreed it can be “overpriced” just like everything that’s in the top 1% can be overpriced.
Just one point the model S is 75k, unless I’m missing something the cheapest lucid air I can buy is 82.5k.
> Sure but maybe this is the car that builds that brand cachet?
Porsche has had hundreds of great cars over more than 90 years, to build brand cachet. It basically means that if 90% of the hundreds of models they have released over 90 years have been great, you can count on their next car being great too, hence brand cachet. This is why new Porsche GT models sell out months before they are released, for massively inflated prices.
Lucid could make an absolute shitter as their follow-up.
> Sure but maybe this is the car that builds that brand cachet?
Sure, but you have to actually sell cars to build cachet and Lucid is struggling to do that
That argument doesn't make sense. They can charge whatever they want and their cachet will build independent of that - Lexus had a similar thing. You're basically saying that you can only charge up to your brands reputation, which is wack because, again, they can do what they want, and if people buy them, then they're pricing it correcty.
>They can charge whatever they want and their cachet will build independent of that - Lexus had a similar thing.
Not even close. BMW wanted $86k for a 750iL and Mercedes-Benz was chasing $83k for a 400SE in 1991. The LS400 of the same year was $44k.
I can somewhat understand the pricing of Mercedes with the S class, considering how well built and overengineered it was (and it has held up over time, to this day), but BMW was smoking some good stuff for that price in 1991.
The LS400 came out at like a 40% discount compared to the Germans at the time.
It was super well engineered, but they still had to price to their reputation/cachet.
> Yea but the Taycan Turbo S is a Porsche, which is a brand that is known for being expensive but it has the history, reputation and following to justify its pricing.
Absolutely. Porsche started as a bargain basement brand and clawed its way to the top!
100%
I had an early Lucid pre order/deposit. One of the first apparently. I love their tech and all of what they’re doing. (Well… their design maybe isn’t my exact taste…)
But after my test drive I canceled my deposit. Aside from hp, to match the features of my Polestar 2 (hardly the value/$ benchmark), I would’ve had to spend literally double my Polestar’s MSRP to get a Lucid. And at that time I would have been buying into buggy software and an unclear service model - and I already did that once with Polestar, wasn’t sure wanted that again.
So wasn’t for me. Except if it’s not for me, and I’m a sucker for their schtick, then who is it for?
> but the price doesn’t make any sense.
What do you mean, it totally makes sense. Tesla is the only EV maker that bring the cost of production down so that they can offer the car at the lowest price and still maintain a healthy profit. All the other companies are selling the car for double the price and not only with no profit, but actually taking a loss per vehicle.
I mean, yes, but the target market here doesn’t really consider things like “what can I afford”. At $250,000 you’re looking at S65 AMG, used rolls Royce Ghost, and the Bentley Flying Spur. I personally would be torn between a Flying Spur for the novelty of the W12, but in the end this is probably a better car for everything on paper and at that point I’d just lease them.
I think this is really the problem a lot of these halo-type EV brands are going to run into. There's a romance around something like Ferrari or Lamborghinis. People will buy it for the way it makes them feel even if the specs aren't hugely better than more pedestrian brands.
But, EVs are appliances. Even well designed ones like this are appliances. There's not really any emotion to it even if it lets you cook your tires and go sideways like this one. I have a hard time seeing people wanting to spend Ferrari cash on an appliance, especially when the brand has no clout and is unlikely to be around in 10 years.
I appreciate Lucid's contributions to motor and packaging design. I'm sure whichever OEM eventually buys their IP will appreciate those contributions too.
> People will buy it for the way it makes them feel even if the specs aren't hugely better than more pedestrian brands.
Also they way they look. Ferraris and lambos turn heads and none of the sedan EVs look anywhere near as good
Strictly Tesla: that may be true, but the interior of the Lucid is something else. Tesla's interior doesn't compare. Lucid is definitely for a different price bracket.
Am I the only one that thinks 90 minutes is too long for a video about a new car? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate some high quality content, but for my hour and a half I'd rather watch a good movie than what is essentially an advertisement.
Well, I had asked a pretty straightforward question to hopefully have a discussion about long format car reviews, but instead got whatever you're doing.
SavageGeese and Jason Cammisa (Haggerty) are by far putting out the best car-related content right now. No contest. And I love how different they are from each other. But both are amazing.
> plus I think Mark is a bit of a carmudgeon.
From watching all their videos and live streams I get the sense that Mark is a perfectionist of his work and throws himself into a workflow that isn't healthy but wants to be done. He talks about how overworked he is while at the same time needs to keep up with YouTube, a platform that doesn't exactly promote the quality videos they put so much effort in. Combined with the direction the car industry is headed that is less than enthusiastic for a car-enthusiast, his attitude starts to make sense.
But that said, their attitude is part of the personality of the program and why it's unique. For a car buyer, the reviews by the dinosaurs of car media, C&D, Motortrend, etc provide superior, objective details.
Like, I can't recall the last time SG talked about things like steering feel, seating position, etc. Which again, fine for videos for purely entertainment purposes. The closest they commonly address is infotainment, the interior plastics, and how it sounds. Loud, quiet, fake engine noise, etc.
What are you talking about? SavageGeese talks about steering feel and other nuanced driving attributes all the time. Much better than most traditional automotive media (C&D is good, but it is hugely insulting to SG to compare them to a garbage rag like Motortrend)
>>Mark is a bit of a carmudgeon
He has reason to be. New enthusiast cars are financially unobtanium to working class people, regulations & economic changes mean that’s only going to get worse with time, and carmakers are busy turning their engaging cars into iPads with wheels and doors (to thunderous consumer applause).
Add in the industry bullshit like bending the knee to carmakers in their content or risk being cut off, carmakers who don’t take them seriously and YouTube algorithms pushing soundbyte BS and here we are.
I think he's also a specific-kind-of-car-enthusiast, which is a perspective that leads to unhappiness. As I've gotten older my tastes have broadened and I'm quite a bit happier with the state of cars as a result.
But don't get me wrong, the effort levels that go in to these videos is amazing and the stress levels they must both feel are likely crazy high. I totally get it.
You see the amount of engineering that goes into these things, and this subreddit says every EV is the same and "any company can just slap electric motors and a battery on a car"
Its also closer to the model 3 shitbox interior than the one in this video. I think you really have to be wealthy to own a Lucid. They haven't been reliable and if you have a problem with yours its going to be months before they can fix it. So, you not only need the cash to buy your Lucid, but you need the cash to have a backup car for the time your Lucid is in the shop. Its basically a Lotus.
Yeah seriously, I don't think 90% of the people here have sat in a Lucid let alone drive one. They're fine but the build quality is Tesla level if not worse especially with the interior.
I both sat and drove a Lucid in Boston for the first time this past week and I thought it was head and shoulders above a tesla in build quality. Everything felt nice and it felt like a nice place to be, I can't say the same for any tesla I've been in.
Well, I can't deny that the interior of the lower trims is technically closer to the interior quality of a Model 3, but I would say it is still a far cry from it. Regarding anything requiring servicing, I've only seen replacements of motors or the HV battery taking a few weeks to a month to get replaced, but smaller issues (i.e. trunk fitment) get fixed within hours their mobile service. They also provide loaners if your car is in for servicing, but if none are available at the time, they'll do their best with providing you with a rental or helping you out with getting one.
The trickle effect is that some lucky guy got paid to put the car together so that he can afford to put gas in his Corolla to get to work the next day. It's the American dream every which way you look.
I'm not sure anyone would care about this car if its horsepower numbers weren't that high. Boring interior, boring exterior.
And honestly... what's the point in having 1200HP anyways?
At the beginning of the video, they talked about legacy car companies rushing out EV products on existing platforms and trying to grab a little more market share, and how the Lucid approach is different.
They're basically saying "we're going to build bespoke tech that puts us on the bleeding edge, our accountants have done the math, and this will pay off in the long run."
A lot of companies don't think long run. They think Q4 of this year or Q1 next year, and how they can get to profitability right away. IF something doesn't give an almost immediate ROI, they don't want to hear it. Lucid is not doing that, and that's cool.
Can I afford one? Not unless I sell my house and live in the car, but that's not the point.
Tbf, the type of reviewer you mention is the perfect person to use for a paid ad because they already have a strong reputation in their respective community.
I’m not saying it’s a paid ad, just saying that pages like these are who advertisers want.
I agree, the marketing wank about "vision" and "philosophy" and whatever didn't really get me either. I guess it worked on the majority of people in the comments though
Best car reviewers out there. Not only that but they have enough credibility to be taken speciously by the industry as well. Not something many car channels can say.
Damn, what a video.
I wish a company with this level of ingenuity and passion would move into the commercial vehicle market. US semi trucks are so *incredibly* stale, and the Tesla Semi doesn't seem like they even talked to any of us truckers before they made it.
I understand where you are coming from and due to the lack of GT3 in my driveway i can assure you they didnt pay us.
This was a really hard project for us to put together because i felt it had to accomplish a couple things. First i wanted to introduce people to lucid, the people, brand and their in house tech. The second is i had to explain what the air saphire is. I didn’t want this to be just a drag race and look how fast it is sort of video because it would do such a massive disservice to those involved. I do genuinely feel that this is the first brand that gives me real hope towards fun ev cars in the future. Their level of transparency and focus towards making a good car not just a ev is very refreshing.
> I understand where you are coming from and due to the lack of GT3 in my driveway i can assure you they didnt pay us.
>
> This was a really hard project for us to put together because i felt it had to accomplish a couple things. First i wanted to introduce people to lucid, the people, brand and their in house tech. The second is i had to explain what the air saphire is. I didn’t want this to be just a drag race and look how fast it is sort of video because it would do such a massive disservice to those involved. I do genuinely feel that this is the first brand that gives me real hope towards fun ev cars in the future. Their level of transparency and focus towards making a good car not just a ev is very refreshing.
If they didn't pay you, they should, considering you obviously know that Lucid is funded by the Saudi Wealth Fund.
Also your post reads exactly like a press release, not sure if that was intentional or very intentional.
I'm half way through so far. Some of the interview sections feel very "corporate" in the questions and responses. The engineering and aero sections are enjoyable for me.
The weirdest thing is the intro where Mark and Jack are talking to each other; it just feels a little awkward and out of character for their videos.
But other than that I am enjoying it. Getting this level of access with a young company full of experienced people is going to be difficult unless they can limit the amount of criticism.
That being said: it's a quarter million dollar car. I don't expect them to receive it like they do other cars. It's more just a look at something I'll probably never even see in person.
Can we PLEASE use "fastest" correctly? The Bentley Flying Spur has a faster top speed by 2mph, or 207mph. It's the current fastest sedan afaik. The Lucid, having a low ET on a drag strip, would be the QUICKEST, not the fastest.
The above is obvious nonsense but let's extend it:
Most rapid (lowest 0-60).
Speediest (shortest time to charge 10%-80%).
Sprightliest (door handles pop out in the lowest time).
I've had a chance to spend about a half an hour in the Air GT (just sitting, no driving.) I got to go through the configurator process at their showroom and I have to say, if I had the budget for an electric luxury car...absolutely. This is a special car. Props to Lucid for providing this much information.
This video is absolutely top notch information presentation. The extended clips of letting the engineers, designers, directors et al speak and explain their designs was a refreshing change. Thanks guys, this is a good one and worth the watch.
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